Topic

Community Gardens, Please Don't Do This

I know that a lot of people think its a good idea to keep EVERY SINGLE plot in the community gardens filled up with a crop, and if its not then there is usually someone standing nearby to make sure it something new is planted asap, but I really don't like this practice.  I prefer to have herb garden in my house, since I use it much more, so I have a firebog house.  However, on the rare occasion that I DO need to use a crop garden, it usually takes longer to find a community gardens with an open plot than it takes for the crop to grow.  Please please please, stop filling up EVERY SINGLE plot and leave a handful for other players to use.

It's a community garden, meaning the community should garden there.  Not one person standing around filling it up all day long or leaving notes saying "please replant if you take".  It's not about constantly having free crops available, its about allowing people to use the gardens when they need to.

Thanks in advance.

Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • @Nanookie:  Guano, like most other items in the game, is available by auction. I think that's the logical way for players to get some, if they need some, rather than by having a dispenser in the community gardens. There aren't dispensers of other items in other areas, so this would be consistent.

    I was going to suggest a sign saying, "Guano speeds things up." or "Fertilizer makes you free!" so players would know, but there aren't those sorts of direct hints/answers for other products or areas, so I think that would be overkill, too.  

    Not broken, not in need of fixing.  <--- my opinion
    Posted 16 months ago by Eleanor Rigby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nanookie, I really like the idea of a guano dispenser. Did you post it in the ideas forum?
    Posted 16 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I did not think that it would inconvenience anyone to just leave a few plots open, and there is yet to be a single person to explain why that request is so hard to listen to."

    if everyone left a few plots open, there would be a certain number of permanently unused plots.

    unless you are suggesting that only you should be able to plant the final plots. what "class" of player gets that right? people on one-off quests? some other mythical player type that needs an extremely specific crop for a recipe but refuses to buy it at auction or from a produce vendor?

    basically you are asking everyone to walk on eggshells, worrying about whether they are overplanting or not, when it is quite simple to address this just by harvesting to free up a spot.

    and i still haven't heard a good explanation of who, other than people attempting to complete one off quests, would actually benefit from this.
    Posted 16 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nanookie:  That is kinda a cool idea.  I think it would be fitting for the community gardens since community members could keep it full and it would be a way for people to cooperate even more.

    Why can't we all just cooperate?!
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I never saw any "ripping" upon any person. Just different opinions from different people, that you seemed to take so very personal. I never once thought that I was intentionally "ripping" on you, and even thanked you for the presents on my doorstep, but you are intend on believing that we are all out to get you because we didn't agree with your "favor". You will learn to accept things more I think, as you go through life. I hope.

    I still don't have a problem with you, even if you blocked me for my opinion.

    Gay banana, out.
    Posted 16 months ago by Ridem Cowboy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Striatic, I have mentioned several times I am addressing the people who are filling it to the brink time after time.  I am not talking about people passing through who drop a couple of seeds or the people who need to use them.  I am talking specifically to the people who stay in the gardens for hours "monitoring" it and making sure it is always full up

    Again, please read what I am saying before you respond
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Ridem- With the things that you've said and done in game and in forum i'm surprised you're surprised Laurali blocked you. Please don't lie to yourself and say that it was to stifle your ability to express your opinion. 

    @ Striatic- In simple economies value is based off supply and demand. When one crop is abundant and not wanted (high supply, low demand) it has low value- ie "useless". People are one thing, but when it comes too plants, we can't really just say "everything is wanted and loved", let's please be more realistic.

    Guano take time/energy to aquire and therefore burdens other players even if it's use facilitates the normal growth time of plants. I don't know of any 0 energy, everlasting guano bags in game but if you do, please share the wealth. 

    The heart of this thread is how we as a community can advance lowest and most disadvantaged who are not getting a fair share and bring them into the fold.
    Posted 16 months ago by flea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Many will cooperate, many won't. It will become more extreme once the game launches. Getting one's knickers in a twist about those who aren't cooperating the way one wants will just lead to pain and heartache, and I'm recommending letting it go now before it gets worse. Breathe. Create. Imagine. Don't sweat the small stuff. And in Glitch anyway, it's all small stuff.
    Posted 16 months ago by Eleanor Rigby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And I just told you earlier I was running through and needed onions, spinach, and broccoli.  The garden was completely full with none of those items planted.  Like I said above, there could have been more missing but that is what I needed at the time
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Why can't we all just cooperate?!"

    cooperation might be considered going to the effort to bring some guano to the garden. *pitch in and help out* as it were, rather than request/demand that plots be left open for some unspecified purpose that happens to perfectly align with your own convenience.
    Posted 16 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eleanor, my knickers have never been in a twist.  If people are paying attention to this I was just asking something small, and it only escalated because the intensity of some of the responses.

    This was never a big deal to me, just a "Hey, do you mind doing this?"
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Striatic I was saying that not to this post, but to the game in general and I was not being serious.  And cooperation can be bringing guano and leaving plots in case someone needs them, which I did, and there were none empty.  Cooperation would mean BOTH sides being fulfilled
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yeah but which side does the leaving the plots empty benefit?

    empty plots are unused plots that could be producing useful crops.

    other than people performing one-off quests, i have yet to see an adequate description of who actually benefits from intentionally empty plots.
    Posted 16 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • plus your suggestion is redundant. the act of bringing and using the guano *causes* the plots to empty.

    so if everyone brought guano, there'd be no need to leave plots empty.

    the suggestion is absurd, when you think about it in the context of what guano does and how plots work.
    Posted 16 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Striatic it benefits people like me who needed them.  It is not always full of what you need, and there are quests although you found a shortcut to that one.  But I am telling you that there was a time when I needed a certain crop, wasn't growing there, wasn't able to plant it, and the gardens was full up on seeds except a single grown strawberry, which another player harvested and replanted strawberries before I could.

    EDIT:  The quest being able to be completed by just harvesting could be a bug, not sure, but if it is then there is a lot of people who will need to plant and grow their own crops too
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Stri- I think we can agree that bringing guano and leaving plots empty are means to the same end. Where we disagree is why you would choose one method over the other. 

    Bringing guano- Cost: time/resource/energy  Gain: Unintended Crop, Empty Plot
    Just using what you need - Cost: Nothing Gain: Empty Plot

    Am i missing something here?
    Posted 16 months ago by flea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fundamentally I think the debate centres on whether you think a community garden is for people to plant things or for people to harvest things.

    I think that for the majority of people in the majority of circumstances, the thing they want to do is get crops. The practice of harvesting and replanting maximizes this for everybody with the minimal amount of time spent. I'm surprised that there's even a debate on this as everybody I've spoken to in-game and in the gardens themselves practiced and preferred this method over the idea that you had to plant your own plots and either wait there all day guarding them or else hope in vain that nobody else would harvest them while you were away.

    I guess they might not be the right crops for a specific player but guano is a fact of life in the game... if you want to use community gardens in a specific way then you should carry one slot of guano. This is not a great burden. Admittedly, if you need, say, strawberries and there's none planted and you're not prepared to wait for the ones you plant to ripen, then you might come back to find someone's taken them. But the alternative is that people are led to believe in 'ownership' of plots in a community garden... and that's just wrong.

    As striatic points out, if the rule is "you must leave 6 spaces free in community gardens" then the situation isn't changed... if I turn up at a garden and want to plant things but there's only 6 spaces free what gives ME the right to fill those spaces and break the rule?
    Posted 16 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wish people would really take the time to read what I've said.  Crops can be bought from a produce vendor for less than the price of a single currant quoin, but gardening plots cannot be bought.
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think where you went wrong with your original request is that it didn't come across like you were just asking some players a favor. It sounded like you were posting in a forum to suggest some people change the way they play to suit YOU. There are players, clearly, who believe the best way to handle the gardens is to fill them all the time, to the brim. There are players who don't believe this. No one among us has the right to force anyone to play differently. One of the game's fundamental (IMO) features is the freedom to play in any way you choose, which is something I'm not sure you're clear on. Not that it was wrong to post - you may use your freedom in Glitch to post anything you like in the forums, but you need to be aware that the other players are free to post replies that disagree. Indeed it sounds like, due to your wording or perhaps the request itself, people took offense, as you seemed to be saying (as others have said), "Please make this easier for me, because I can't be bothered."

    Were it me, I would likely go to a garden, pick a spot, and leave a note saying, "Please leave this plot open when done." Then I would hang out there and go afk and do other things, or chat with friends for a few moments, or even use guano to speed it up while I waited. Then I would use that plot. If someone was there "neurotically" filling up plots, I would simply chat them, and say, "Hey, so-n-so, I really need to use a plot for broccoli. Could you leave one here for me for a bit?" Chances are good they would. They may not, in which case you can always find another garden spot, as you have mentioned - there ARE 51 of them. But see, that is just how *I* would do it.

    While I really loathe it when people tell me I'm "playing the game wrong", I would never post a forum thread saying, "Could you please not tell other players how to play?" I would also not attempt to say it's "a favor," or use the "community" card to try and strong arm people into doing what I wanted. I would simply work with other players directly. You recall when I asked you for that "favor," when you told me I was playing the game wrong? And you refused to stop telling me how to play? Did I post on the forums? No. I continued playing my way, as it was hurting no one and actually benefiting me at the time.

    This "community" word you throw about so often - I don't think you understand that the "community" includes *everyone.* Not just those whose player styles you approve of. If this is not a big deal, as you keep claiming, then great. Let it go. You asked your favor and people replied. Take those replies and either do something on your own (sort out a house trade, start carrying guano, etc) or live with it as it is. As others have so rightly said, getting all twisted up about another person's play style will only cause you grief.
    Posted 16 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • THere may be some effect from this thread. TONS of open plots right now in Middle Arbor...
    Posted 16 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've read this entire thread Laurali. Some people don't want to spend money buying crops when they can use a community garden for free.

    It seems to me that the main purpose of leaving plots free (assuming you're not asking people to leave those specific crops for you to come back and harvest, which would quickly bog down the entire garden) is to allow people to complete a "plant crops" quest. Carrying some guano and targeting the spaces closest to harvesting time allows you to achieve this just as easily without inconveniencing the majority of the players.
    Posted 16 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Pixel, I am absolutely ok with people disagree.  This wasn't for people to cater to me, but to just keep in mind that some players might need to use the plots and to just be considerate of that.  It's not a rule, it's not trying to force anything down anyones throat, it is just a simple request I asked of people, and not ALL people, just a specific type of player who likes to fill the plots up.

    I understand they are helping people, and I just wanted to suggest a different way to use the gardens.  The OP was mostly a joke, the idea was that I wanted people to leave a couple plots open instead of filling them all with crops in case somebody would need them.  I still don't understand why this is a problem.

    I am NOT telling anyone else how to play.  I am NOT telling anyone to not plant, I am just asking players (who I have talked to in game as well) to just please a few open.  They certainly don't have to, but there is no harm in asking.

    And everyone keeps going oon that I am telling them how to play, yet a bunch of players above have told me "Just carry guano", "Just wait", "Harvest what you need and move on".  Even you just said to me : "sort out a house trade, start carrying guano, etc) or live with it as it is"  So really by your own standards YOU are telling me WHAT to do.  I hate when people go on about others telling them how to play, it goes both ways as many people here have told me how to play too and I never told them to stop telling me what to do.

    And community includes everyone, even the people who are on an random quest or people who just need a plot or two for crops.  Not just the people that want a produce free for all.  And I will defend my thoughts on the forum if I want to, its what the forum is for.  If you don't like that then don't read my posts.
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe I'm being a bit touchy, but it took a long time to indoctrinate the sort of "replant" or "sow what you reap" mindset into people. I used to plant the GH community garden and go back at intervals to see how long it would take to empty out. Keepin it full was comparable to the amount of effort it takes to keep a wood tree on a public street alive today. Now, it never empties out, which I think is totally awesome. To try and roll that mindset back or introduce nuance into that mindset, considering how difficult it was to get the gardens full in the first place strikes me as a bit reckless.

    EDIT: Darn this thread has legs. For a dead horse, it sure is moving fast.
    Posted 16 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, I was giving you suggestions, not telling you to do anything. Of course you are free to completely ignore them. OMG OR NOT. OR DO. It's up to you.
    Posted 16 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was giving suggestions to oPixel, so stop with the "DONT TELL ME HOW TO PLAY" bull
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Give up, people. This is like talking to a brick wall. Are you blonde?
    Posted 16 months ago by Ridem Cowboy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well see the big difference is that you were *continually* giving me "suggestions" and then when I asked you to please not tell me how to do things, you said, "Obviously someone needs to, because you're doing it wrong." So um, I think it's a horse of another color here. If I were hanging around you in game saying "Just buy guano. It benefits you. You should buy guano. Why aren't you buying guano. Hey everyone, Laurali isn't buying guano. I told her to, but she isn't listening." THEN we could say it's the same. :)
    Posted 16 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I never said that Pixel.  I never told anyone they were doing anything wrong, just offered a suggestion of how I think it could be done differently.  I don't mind people disagreeing, but enough with the "dont tell people how to play", because then nobody could EVER offer a suggestion
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Blitz - one of the coolest things I've seen in Glitch is the sense of community in the community gardens... you harvest something that someone else planted and watered, then you plant something & leave it for others to benefit from. It makes me warm inside :-)
    Posted 16 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You guys are completely idolizing this, cause it's not always so happy go lucky in there.  The only time it seems like it's being kept up by  the community if you spend your time  there you will realize that people take stuff and run, and one or two people maintain it the majority of the time its full
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here is my solution, since LBO says the gardens are empty I will now spend my in game time maintaining the gardens if no one else is doing it, and I will bring lots of guano and leave a few plots open.  Just in case.  And don't worry I will make sure one of every crop is always ripe at any given time in case any of you need it.  That way no one feels they are catering to me
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok, so just to be clear. From my point of view, a suggestion is something put forth that can be ignored or not. Something to consider. If someone then continuously badgers me to take that suggestion and then change my actions in the suggested manner - that ceases to be a "suggestion." Is it griefing? Perhaps. But it's no longer a suggestion once there are consequences, even if those consequences only mean "I will continue to bug you until you conform to the manner of play I suggested or get so irritated you leave when I am around."

    I often suggest to my kids that they clean their rooms before the deadline of Saturday, when their rooms MUST be cleaned. I suggest it. They often ignore it. But on Saturday, I TELL them to clean their rooms. And if they don't, there are consequences. To me, a suggestion is simply saying, "Hey, consider this." And if people consider it and decide against it, I would never deign to say they were doing it wrong (which indeed, you did). It's not my place, quite frankly, nor is it yours.

    Some other suggestions for the plot situation, which you may also ignore:

    1. Start a like minded group to educate people on the benefits of empty plots.
    2. Leave notes asking that one section be left empty (although this runs into other issues, as striatic and others have mentioned - who decides who can use those plots and when?)
    3. A house trade, as suggested
    4. Since you are over your quests, you could take up the cause for others in the same boat. Become a helper and make trips through the gardens to empty plots for them.
    5. Utilize the "bug," if it is one, of getting credit for the plant and the harvest separately, and simply harvest when available and plant when possible. 
    6. Not do the quests that involve this at all.
    7. Post an idea to the developers to create an instanced garden for people on those quests.
    8. Post an idea to the developers to modify these quests.
    9.  Create a team of people to monitor gardens and educate people on the importance of leaving some available (though again, who gets to decide when the available ones can be used?)

    I think perhaps you are confusing the issue - telling people how to do something is indeed different from suggesting. On Thursday I suggest my kids clean their rooms. On Saturday, I TELL them to, nag them if they haven't, and punish them when the time limit has arrived if they have not completed the task. There is definitely a difference.
    Posted 16 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This will be the last time I respond to the ludicrous claims that I am trying to tell people what to do.  Defending my point of view in a debate is just that, me defending my point of view in a debate.  Again, I can and will defend my ideas if I believe them to be true, and I have yet to see a single argument that has made me change my mind, unlike many other forums I have started or commented on when someone made a good point and I realized I was wrong.

    If you don't want to me to defend my point, stop arguing it, and if you don't want to read my suggestions, don't.

    1.  I didn't even want this post to get to this point, I won't further the problem by starting a group about it.  But like I said earlier, I am going to defend myself and my ideas against attacks
    2.  Done, but I left a note asking people to please not harvest the crop I guanoed while I went to get more guano
    3&4&5:  I don't need the crop plots anymore, so finding a way around using the community gardens doesn't benefit me, but is a good suggestion for anyone else with the same problem
    6:  Shouldn't even be suggested, why suggest that people not play the game, as quests are a big part of the game
    7&8:  This forum was supposed to do that, raise awareness of a potential problem
    9:  I plan to do this myself, as now I am done with quests I will have time to grind guano and keep crops at their fullest levels because I truly think that is the best solution to this problem as people will still get the crops and can use the empty spot to plant if they want, I can't do this all the time but hope it will help players who messaged me saying they had similar problems

    One thing I always struggle with is people misinterpreting my sense of humor online, and the original post was sort of overdone on purpose to be a joke, but like I said it only escalated on my side because I felt like the responses were overwhelming way too intense for the idea I was just trying to suggest.  I tried so many times to tell everyone that I did not intend for this to be such a serious debate, but also don't expect me to back down when someone is arguing because I won't.
    Posted 16 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "@ Stri- I think we can agree that bringing guano and leaving plots empty are means to the same end. Where we disagree is why you would choose one method over the other. 

    Bringing guano- Cost: time/resource/energy  Gain: Unintended Crop, Empty Plot
    Just using what you need - Cost: Nothing Gain: Empty Plot

    Am i missing something here?"


    wow are you are missing something here for sure.

    "Bringing guano- Cost: time/resource/energy  Gain: Unintended Crop, Empty Plot"

    Just using what you need - Cost: Nothing Gain: Empty Plot"

    "empty plot" isn't a gain. an empty plot benefits nobody, except maybe a player attempting to plant a crop for a specific one-off quest. an empty plot is an unproductive *waste*. the cost isn't "nothing", the cost is the opportunity cost of what could have been planted there instead of it sitting around empty, languishing.

    Bringing guano- Cost: time  Gain: Crop that provides resource and energy profit in exchange for said time, and an Empty Plot that can be immediately replanted to continue productivity.

    Just using what you need - Cost: Crops that could have been planted while plot is empty. Gain: somebody unwilling to pitch in to the community growing effort gets to finish a one-off quest a few minutes faster than they would have otherwise.

    the first option is productive. the second option is wasteful.
    Posted 16 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There once was a thread about plots
    and suggestions on how to play
    when out came a monstrous green frog
    who is wandering around to this day

    The frog said "I really like yoga, wanna see"
    and we all laughed our heads off, seriously...
    Because yoga is not what frogs do!
    They only know how to flee.
    Posted 16 months ago by Ridem Cowboy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the plot thickens!
    Posted 16 months ago by EgIantine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's a question for everyone.

    When you buy a loaf of sliced bread, do you on the first day make the whole loaf into peanut butter sandwiches? 

    The answer is no because other people may want to make a different kind of sandwich and it's unfair to inconvenience them, even if you think your wasting bread by not using it's immediate potential. Some people may want turkey sandwiches and all were asking is for you to not to use up all the bread, so that we don't have to wait, just like you didn't have to wait with your sandwich. If it's the last slice, please have no reservations taking it, but if it isn't why use up the whole loaf?
    Posted 16 months ago by flea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gotta love that friendly welcoming Glitch spirit.  We really are so much better than other people, aren't we?

    I would stick around for the discussion, but I've got to go off and gloat about our community.
    Posted 16 months ago by Biff Beefbat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, I would make the whole loaf. But that's why we are all different people and there is no "right" way. I certainly would not try to tell someone who would do it a different way, to make the whole loaf, when omg isn't that how they are supposed to be made? For the people?! And then when they looked at me and said, but I like making just one sandwich at a time, that I would then accuse them of being unfair. Hilarity ensues.

    Buy your own loaf of bread, I say. Problem solved. :)
    Posted 16 months ago by Ridem Cowboy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Biff Beefbat
    Posted 16 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • flea, that is an awful analogy.

    the unused bread is just unused bread. it couldn't be doing anything other than being bread, and nothing is lost by not turning it into sandwiches.

    whether you turn it into sandwiches immediately or do so later, it can only be turned into sandwiches *once*.

    a continually used plot can be used to grow food over and over and over again.

    your loaf/sandwich analogy has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

    i mean if slicing all the bread into sandwiches caused the uneaten sandwiches to spontaneously replicate, it might be remotely similar, but that's not how sandwiches work.

    the only way that preserving the unsliced loaf has an opportunity cost is if no one ever makes sandwiches and the loaf goes moldy.
    Posted 16 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Come to think of it, this may be why my house is full of sandwiches.

    Does anyone have any suggestions?
    Posted 16 months ago by Ridem Cowboy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 1. Form a group of hungry people to eat said sandwiches.
    2. Form a group of hungry people to eat said sandwiches.
    3. Have you formed the group yet?
    4. How bout now?
    5. FORM THE GROUP.
    6. ...
    Posted 16 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pixel, that is silly. Why would I want other people to eat my sandwiches? Won't they be converted to energy at some point anyway?
    Posted 16 months ago by Ridem Cowboy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No need for name calling, Ridem. Yeesh. I was only trying to help.
    Posted 16 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • OMG and no one even posted > this <  yet!
    Posted 16 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We were all waiting for you, Miriamele. :)
    Posted 16 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would put the loaf in the freezer, then I could use it whenever I wanted to
    Posted 16 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hey, don't look now but I just put "loafs" in all your freezers. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
    Posted 16 months ago by naitPee Subscriber! | Permalink
  • be sure to examine the loafs, you might get a seed packet :)
    Posted 16 months ago by EgIantine Subscriber! | Permalink