Topic

Auctions - a buyers market?

Warning slight rant ahead, but I also want to know other peoples opinions.

I love the auction function which has significantly helped me raise the money for my home.  But I have a pet peeve about the constant under pricing.  Sure I understand pricing you items cheap (which I'm personally guilty of time to time) so people buy it.  One you don't want to keep loosing money on the fees and not selling anything and two it doesn't make the game fun if you are trying to price gouge everyone.

But seriously do people do the math when the post things.  I was looking to just get rid of some Pleasing Amber (lol love that name btw) and noticed that there was about 10 - 15 auctions selling it for 260.  Not bad, not good either, I can sell it to a vendor for 140.  If I try to sell it in the action for 160 then there will be 16 currants in fees making me earn only 4 currents more than a vendor (which I get the money immediately).  While updating the screen someone posted an action for 130 (10 currants less than what they would have gotten at a vendor plus they will have to "pay" 13 currants for the privilege to loose money).

Maybe the example above the person was being altruistic and just trying to help people out, but many of the prices (for gathered items) in the Auctions are starting to bottom out in a bad way now that skills are increasing and it is getting easier to harvest.  On a plus note it seems that it is mostly affected by the gathered items and items which require crafting seem to be unaffected. And with the cheaper prices crafting is easier combined with the fact I don't have to save up for a house anymore.

See I said it was going to devolve into a rant.

edit: corrected the obvious misspelling of the title

Posted 14 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Materials are always gonna be bottomed out compared to NPC prices. They're available for everyone to get, so the markets gonna be flooded. But once TS branches out the crafting skills more, I'm sure there's gonna be too many things for everyone to level, making a more specialized market.
    Posted 14 months ago by Draron Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Many people don't seem to check the value of the item when posting it on auctions. They just want to undercut the competition. For someone who does a lot of cooking, I don't actually bother to sell the food anymore, as I can make more if not an equal amount of money for my food on the vendors :(
    Posted 14 months ago by Supermerlion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No I know that, my main complaint was that people are working against themselves, making the prices too low where they are actually taking a loss on each sale.  In the end supply and demand will always win out. No one making money means less sales, which means less people flooding the market and prices should level back up a little.  It is just frustrating to see.

    Plus I read in another post that some items currently carried by some vendors will be discontinued as players and create and sell the items.  That is definitely going to improve the auctions.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As the playerbase matures, i think things will improve - however, bear in mind, in your example, you compare selling to the tool vendor, which is only a valid comparison when youre willing to make the trip. With recent changes to ajaya, we may see more underpriced gems than ever - there's no shrine in there and it costs money to reenter!
    Posted 14 months ago by FlirtyvonSexenhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One tactic that I haven't thought through is: if you see someone selling at a loss, buy and then relist the item so that you can profit.  Event just doubling the listing fee + commission would be decent.
    Posted 14 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Does the type vendor determine the price you get for a good?  Honestly I don't remember which vendor it was when I priced it but I've never noticed a difference (I also have never bothered to verify if there was a difference either).  If it doesn't then there is a vendor on every street which makes selling to them much easier than having an under priced auction but again I'm not sure.

    As far as things improving that I fully agree with you, once things mature prices will level out and then you can have the correct expectations on what skills to develop or what prices items are going for.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's a couple issues.

    Not everybody is business minded enough to want to see profits or a proper value on their time.  A lot of people think that just because you harvested all the ingredients yourself and made a ton of product to sell that any proceeds are 100% profit.  People don't understand opportunity cost.  Time is money.

    Another issue is that there's so many currants floating around and able to be gotten that what would happen in real life, businesses operating at a loss would die out and the businesses that have proper business sense are prepared to outlast those businesses until the market naturally adjusts itself, simply won't happen.

    There will always be items that are impossible to turn a profit on in the auctions.  However, there will always be opportunities in the market to exploit, and that is where shrewd businesspersons will thrive.

    When I first started the game I chose cooking as my first skill.  I had a thousand currants and needed a knife and board.  My understanding of where to get a knife and board or how to find on the map the different vendors was nil.  But 'find auctions' was easily accessible, and so that's the first place I looked.  Would you believe nobody was selling any?  So I went without a knife and board for hours.  When things finally clicked, I invested all my currants into knife and boards and listed them at 325, because I know I would've bought and the game had just launched, new glitches were coming in all the time.  They sold very regularly and I made some good currants for a total newbie, nothing extravagant.  Took a few days for others to start competing in the knife and board market and I bowed out at that time.

    I probably could have posted them higher, but 325 felt right to me.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cross Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nice rant.  Glad you recognized it as such, because, as a tool for changing playing styles, posting in the forums is pretty useless. 

    When I'm actually "playing the auction", I'm quite comfortable pricing each auction so that I maximize the speed and ROI for each one.  But frequently, when I'm not doing that, I just dump excess into the auctions.  In that case speed for getting some currents is the only criterion.  When I'm playing that way, I'll price at the lowest I can for a rapid return.

     "Doing the math" gives me different results at different times.  So, when you see my auctions below yours, remember that I might have used a different equation than you did. 
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Its not low prices which I was pointing out, it was why sell on the auction when you can get a better price from a vendor.

    Just now I have been buying grain sold on the auction for a bundle of 250 for 200-225, then within minutes selling to a vendor for 250 making an instant profit. Plus with the vendor I don't have to wait.  Also for example grain bundles (which is just 250 grains put together) were going also 200-225.  I bought them and then unbundled and sold to a vendor for 250 each (warning if you leave bundled the vendor only offers 170 so make sure you unbundle).

    There really is no math just a comparison, when a vendor offers 250 for selling an item why sell it for less.  Originally I also included the fees, which on a 250 currant item (in the case of grain) would be a 20 currant commission and a 4 currant listing fee.  Which means that even if on the Auction if you sell for 250 you are only actually making 226 currants (which could be sold at the vendor instantly for 250 avoiding the whole hassle of posting the auction).  But I'm regularly seeing items going for less even without the fees.  However people can always charge what they want and may not be trying to make money off the deal (I've sold for little to no profit if I needed inventory space but generally in those cases I donate if available).
    Posted 14 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I simply prefer to sell on auction. I can gather and cook stuff when I am on line. At work, I can not get into the game but I can get into the forums and auctions. So while I am at work, I post auctions and keep updated in the forums.

    I also like the idea of selling at auction - other Glitchens get what they need at a reasonable price and convenience.

    What would I do with all those extra currants in the game anyway? - I already have a house. I do not want to spend my on-line time hustling to the vendors, I want to play and explore.
    Posted 14 months ago by Kookaburra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "why sell it for less"

    Because it takes more time to sell it for more.  Not interested in spending in-game time researching current auction prices, making comparisons and traveling to a tool vendor to gain a few currants.  Things can only be sold instantly if you are spending your game time standing next to the tool vendor.

    My equation includes the time value of fun.  Yours doesn't.
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • during the beta street projects really helped drive demand on the auction house and slowly increased prices as items needed were consumed.  There are a lot more producers now and resources are not limited so it may remain a buyers market.  I still prefer selling to my fellow glitch over selling to an npc vendor.  At least let it help someone real.
    Posted 14 months ago by Artilect Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Clearly there is a voice for selling on the cheap and the last thing I want to do is create controversy, but just wanted to make a couple final points.  Selling at a loss (I'm not talking about just selling cheaply, I do that as well) in my opinion doesn't really help people too much as it makes it harder for newcomers to get money and existing people can just buy low and resell high.  If your specialized you easily learn what price you need to generate a profit so your just not sitting by the tool vendor (which is less than a minute away at any point in time when needed).  And if an item is not available for fellow gamers then no one is selling at a loss and people will post more in auctions like Cross above.

    I definitely prefer to sell in auctions as well which was my concern that it appeared that people were making auctions less effective and fun by just blindly selling cheaper than the cheapest.  Selling on the cheap is a good thing, I just wanted to bring up the point that it looked like people were focusing too much on being the lowest price and not using any strategy, and yes being altruistic by selling at a loss is a strategy if your doing it intentional. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  •   You don't get it. You keep telling me that the time it takes to get to the tool vendor to sell is "instantly" and "less than a minute away". My estimate of the value of the time required isn't the same as yours.  It isn't "instantly" or "less than a minute away" the way I play the game.  Teleporting costs energy that must be regained and the time required to conduct the transaction is not "instant".

    If you're going to give game strategy advice in a forum, at least be self-aware enough to understand that your assumptions about "fun" aren't the same as everyone else's.  If you don't understand someone else's point of view, try figuring out why its fun for them but not you, but don't keep telling them they're wrong. 

    I'm doing what's fun.  Whether or not that's "altruistic" or "less effective" or even "not using any strategy", it's fun for me.  If I'm "focusing too much on being the lowest price", you may want to understand why that is fun. You asked for other people's opinions, but mostly you seem to be arguing against them, not listening.
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think our present market is not very nuanced, and I bet that will change over time. Then I hope it will be more fun to play by selling.

    I am definitely guilty of occasionally selling things for the lowest of the low price. Sometimes I just want to free up a storage slot and listing something really cheap in the auction is the fastest easiest way to get rid of it, and make sure it doesn't come back, while getting something in return. Like maybe one day I see I have an overabundance of cherries since I just haven't been resisting the allure of those cherry trees. At that point another empty slot may be worth more to me than making a good deal. Plus sometimes I like the idea that someone who really needs cherries CAN get them for a good deal.
    Posted 14 months ago by crowdedsky Subscriber! | Permalink