Topic

Real estate is seriously flawed...

So the Alakol residences have been released... most of them costing 30k/50k currants, but have identical features like the 10k Groddle Meadow homes. If you take a look at the real estate listings now, lots of 10k Meadow homes are on sale. Good thing probably for the new players/aspiring homebuyers.

But in the long run, isn't this going to be a little awkward for everybody? 'Elite' people will be living in Alakol, 'thrifty' people in Meadow, and all others... I don't know?

I'm suggesting that some of us form a body and go through the real estate sector and make it better for the consumption of Glitchers. For instance, increasing the price of the most well-equipped homes, reducing the amount of cheap homes simply because nobody buys them (anymore, that is, since most of us are rich people now) or just increasing the prices of all homes so that it would be harder to attain.

Renting sounds like a good idea too, not sure how plausible it is though.

Posted 19 months ago by Serenadier Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • How is it better for new players to not have a large supply of cheap homes available?

    Renting is in the works.

    stoot said:
    2) Rent (or "upkeep" or "property tax", etc.) of some form will eventually be added, to keep circulation going.
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not sure what you mean by "seriously flawed." Maybe "mildly flawed."

    There are a few things that will be mitigating the scenario you see.

    The world will be constantly expanding (at least for any foreseeable future). People love "new" things so I imagine folks with cash on hand will often move wherever new types of house open. This may not alway be moving to new expensive houses. Personally, if there was house with a small garden, five patches and fireflies, I would jump there! But I have no desire for one of the new houses because their style bores me. 

    What happens when they add 100,000 houses?

    (And we are no even thinking about what happens if folks can expand their own homes or when other types of resources are added to the game. Or what happens if they had home in the Deep with rocks to mine.)

    They are also constant adding homes to meet demand. Right now there is a lack of homes in Alakoal. For a long time there was a lack of homes in the Meadows. There is a constant shifting.

    I am unclear on what you mean by "some of us form a body and go through the real estate sector and make it better for the consumption of Glitchers." Who is the some of us? Are you going to take into account location? Demand? If it is done my a group of players, it creates a weird dynamic of players deciding what is the "right" price for things.


    For awhile I was in favor of having prices fluxuate with demand but set by the computer. Only one house available in BlahBlah Street? Maybe it should be really expensive. The problem with this is that it could cause bad feelings. Say you buy a house when there is only a couple of house available so you pay sky high prices. And hour later, Tiny Speck opens up 20 new house and the price falls through the floor. I might be a touch pissed. (Although, as long as you can always sell it for 80% of you purchase price REGARDLESS of the current rate, it is less of an issue.)


    The only problem I see with prices changing on what stuff is in them (animals or even goods left by previous owner) is that those things can be removed and sold. So say their is a normally 6,000 house but it has a bunch of stuff in it so the price is increased to 7,000. You buy it and sell all of the stuff in it that you can. What should the resale price be? 80% of the original price? 80% of the new, reset price? Starts to get complicated.


    I also love the idea of houses being able to be sold directly from the owner to the buyer... as long as you can ALWAYS sell back to "the game" (like the current system). That will mean people don't get stuck with a house if they desire to move somewhere else. The other issue I see is what happens if you put a house on the market and someone wants to buy it while you are not online. Obviously it wouldn't work to have you suddenly evicted and not have a chance to get your stuff out. But having the other person wait is not really a great option either. The logistics are a bit wonky.


    If there were an escrow system for your stuff, perhaps. It everything in your cabinet (and perhaps special "moving boxes") went into escrow until you purchased your new home, that might work. (You would still have to be on the ball if you put your house up for sale and then logged off.)


    (I've written way too much already.)
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually I'd pay extra to have a house without the previous owner's animals. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WindBorn: New players will be of abundance, once the game is open to public, that is. Right now, new players become 'old' after a few days of playing, say two to three beta tests? Soon they'll learn that the tiny house won't be enough for them and would be moving to bigger houses. Take a look at the current situation for example. Before Alakol, players who joined late could not buy a 10k Meadow house, simply because there were no more. Now we have Alakol, most players have moved to those houses which are similar to Meadow houses, but cost 3-5 times as much. And what do we have? A whole market of 10k Meadow houses. 

    At some point, yes, those newbie houses may be needed, but sooner or later everyone will be wealthy enough to afford a big house and may need one, so then they'll purchase one. Now then, what happens to the newbie houses?

    Having 'too many' of these cheap houses serves no use, and to me (I don't know about what other people think about it) it is an eyesore to see so many unoccupied houses.

    Akin to a Ford dealership who has a 6-month waiting list for new Fiestas, but chooses to stock more F-150s, ending up with a showroom filled with trucks. My description may be stupid, but I hope you get my point.
    Posted 19 months ago by Serenadier Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lord Bacon-o: I can clearly see that. Nevertheless, I like it. 

    My point is that the expansion is definitely good - wealthy people have the power to buy bigger homes now, and such. This though, does not mean that we do not have to clean up after, and in this case, I think that the number of smaller houses should be done away with. Simply because there is no huge demand for them. Previously stated - yes, they will be needed, but at some point most of us won't need it any more, so why the gargantuan amount of unoccupied homes?

    On the topic of expansion, we will see how Tiny Speck deals with that and then we'll comment.

    I do really like your theory about the escrow system though. I wanted to buy a house in Alakol when it initially was released but due to the amount of items I have in mine, it was simply a no-no (pun intended) to selling it and buying an Alakol home. I'd be happy to stand by that idea, but maybe some would disagree and claiming 'moving houses the normal way' is best. I don't know. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Serenadier Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Serenadier, I'm not sure I get your point. What are Fiestas and what are trucks in
    this example?

    I think it is way too difficult to judge on what house will be available and what will not based on a three day test. When the game is 24/7 and new players are coming in at a MUCH larger rate, the situation will be DRAMATICALLY different. I'm not even sure how.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There will always be newbies.  There will not be a time when everyone will be wealthy enough to afford a big house.

    There will always people who prefer a small house to a large one. 

    If all your friends have moved up to a big house, then you will never ever have to see a cheap house again.  Just refrain from entering housing quarters where you don't have friends.

    Once you have your own big house, you'll never have to look at real estate listings again.  You'll never know how many cheap houses are for sale.  Or, you can confine your house hunting to the pricey neighborhoods if you think there are new neighborhoods that are nicer. 

    I really don't understand your objection to other people having a choice of housing options. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lord Bacon-o: The point is that the demand for expensive homes are so much bigger than the demand for small, newbie homes, so wouldn't it be good to trim the amount of small houses? I understand the need for small houses, but it doesn't have to be the exact same amount as the amount of expensive homes, does it? 

    Definitely, when the game is open to the public, many things will be drastically different. For instance, the insane amount of miners would probably result in chaos in the Caverns/Deeps.
    Posted 19 months ago by Serenadier Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What, exactly, is the benefit of trimming the amount of smaller houses?
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WindBorn: I have never denied the existence of newbies. Neither have I denied the rights of people who prefer smaller houses. I am just merely stating that there is no need for the massive amount of cheap & small houses. 

    Also, take a look at the amount of unsold houses in Jethimadh & Chakra Phool. I'm just trying to say that since there isn't much demand for these houses, we would probably need to focus more on the houses that are in demand.

    I am certainly not saying that we should totally eradicate the existence of these houses.

    EDIT: Honestly, not much. But although small, this might help make the real estate listings better? Haven't given much thought to that.
    Posted 19 months ago by Serenadier Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah. I guess I don't see the need to lessen the amount of homes. They will fill eventually. They don't tend to keep making new ones available while demand is low. For a long time the demand for Meadow homes was huge. Now it is not. The same pattern for Alakoal homes will follow the same pattern. They have only been available for three days. Of course demand is huge! I think that is fine. They will make more available. They always do eventually.

    When we reset, all the homes out there will not disappear. They will suddenly ALL be available. Not entirely sure of my point on that... just that the pattern will change yet again.

    Edit: "...we would probably need to focus more on the houses that are in demand." Are you talking about Alakoal? They've been available for three days. I think it is fine to release a few at first, see what the demand is. Then add more. But it has only been three days.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lord Bacon-o: Definitely there will be a rush to snap up the more expensive houses before anyone else is able to, when the game is reset. That is another issue though.

    What I'm thinking about is the chaos that would ensue when we have 1 million players, more than 500k above level 10, and more than 250k being able to afford a 50k house... but there are only 10000 50k houses and they are forced to buy 2.2k Groddle Forest houses.

    Just a scenario, but I can see the probability of it - even now in beta it is apparent. A decisive & definite solution to the housing department has to be taken... Something like a stimulus plan, or a country budget, or something along that lines. I apologize for being young and un-experienced, therefore have no idea about the complex workings of the real world which should be applied into the game.
    Posted 19 months ago by Serenadier Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Simply because there is no huge demand for them. Previously stated - yes, they will be needed, but at some point most of us won't need it any more, so why the gargantuan amount of unoccupied homes?"


    Um, when the game opens and new people join in on a regular basis, there will be a sharp increase in the need for cheap, affordable housing.  It's not like there is a REAL market at work here - having 500 unoccupied 2,000 currant homes doesn't mean the neighborhood is a crack ghetto.  Unoccupied homes hurt exactly nothing.  And a large supply of cheap homes means easy entry for new players - they are the ones who haven't got a lot of money and saving 2500 currants is a big deal for them.  Better for them to not have to face the pressure of getting squeezed out of a cheap home.


    The elite thing bugged me for a minute only because it was a gold rush to buy the 50k homes as they became available (I got in on the 4th wave).  But that's a dynamic of beta testing with the world being closed more than it is open.  We're not yet in real game dynamics yet, remember.  There are plenty of open blocks on the quarter streets in Alakol to which new 50k homes will be added, just as they were in the meadows.   


    I'm fairly confident that when the game launches, there will be homes galore and homes added often as there are more and more players... and if it takes you a fair while to get the home you like, is that such a bad thing?  Since alpha, I'm sure I've owned at least 10 homes now - it ain't no big thing to move once you've done it once and the game is here for the long haul.  Besides, when they release the next new type of fun house, I'm sure all of a sudden a lot of 50k homes will get dumped on the market.  But, again, it's not a real market - when everyone left Marrakesh for Alakol, it's not like property values dropped there. ;-)


    I do think it'd be nice if the Forest, Alakol and Bog homes were a little more distinct as they are in the meadows.  It'd be nice to choose different interiors, so I just hope some new artwork per housing type can be drawn up.  
    Posted 19 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Serenadier

    There is no need to solve a problem that has not yet occurred.  There is certainly no way to tell during a beta test what the 'decisive & definite solution' is if the problem has not yet happened.

    Your scenario is only one of many.  One of your assumptions seems to be that the Tiny Speck staff will never make changes in how much housing is available, how it is paid for, how you acquire it, etc.  Even once the game opens, it's not going to stagnate.  TS will keep developing it, tweaking things that need tweaking, creating new stuff, and otherwise keeping up with a changing player base and a changing competitive environment in internet games. 

    There is absolutely no need for a single, definitive decision at this time.  Probably never will be a time when a single, definitive decision is the solution to game mechanics. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zeeberk: I have touched on that, and simply stated that there needs to be a balance based on the demographics and the amount of players, etc. Right now we have more veteran players compared to newbie players, even though invites are being given out frequently now. Shouldn't it be more logical to cater to the demands of veterans with tons of money to splurge? I see that this is actually happening now with the release of Alakol homes, but I'm just stressing the fact that it is what we need, currently.

    When the game is finally opened to the public then a new set of demographics has to be collected & the housing sector to be adjusted in accordance. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Serenadier Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I guess we are just talking about the scale of time. I, personally, think it is fine if there is a few days or a week wait for a home in the area you super desire to open up. And again as more regions open in the game this demand will spread up even while it increases. Folks will want different things. right now you are focusing on the newest hottest thing. That will change. 

    The idea that you should have available to you right away the home that you want... would make things, well, boring. Its FUN to work for something. It makes it more exciting.

    They WILL add more homes Alakoal.... just as they added homes in other areas. Yes, certain area were never that popular... so they stopped adding homes. I believe there are still housing areas in Jeth... because the demand was never there. But, when there are more players, there will be... or there won't.

    Again you appear to be basing this on a three day test and with the addition of something new and different. These have been the first "high" priced homes added. Let it settle for a bit and then make a call. Let it go a few tests. Making dramatic changes based on the demand of a 72 hour period (or whatever it ended up being) is dangerous. Very easy to make things get even MORE out of whack (that is, if you believe things are already out of whack, which I don't). Think long term.  Think of what the game will be like over months and years. Yes, years.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Right now we have more veteran players compared to newbie players, even though invites are being given out frequently now."


    they aren't building a game for the test. They are building the game during the test for launch.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is there any reason that we could not just select a house and a location separately (within the limits of the housing sections) and have what we want where we want?

    I wanted a larger house in Alakol because I like the scenery and they have lots of room for my animals and garden, but there are none available, just the smaller ones.  I don't care much about the size of the house, just the grounds.  Would it not be possible to select the combination we want eg. smallish house/large garden/Alakol -   instead of being limited to just what is on offer?

    That way it would be possible to see what people actually want, rather than what they are prepared to settle for.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cassandria, that is an idea. Referendums might be used for that sort of thing. At this point, I imagine it is more of a balance of what the devs have time to do. There are only some monay hours in the work week and so much to code. I would guess it is focusing on trying different style and see how they work. For Alakoal it was "modern and higher priced homes."

    But in the future, you idea would probably work... just know that it would involve longer delays if they are "tailor" making stuff (even if it is tailor making it for everyone).

    I am also nervous about anything that gets to close to "ideas via surveys" as it usually means making the most watered down idea as opposed to things with a singular vision. But you could have both.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, Lord Bacon-o, do agree housing style is not a priority.  As long as we have a roof over our heads! ;-) 

    It would be nice in the long run though, to have more choice in selecting what we want, and Stoot has said several times that customisation is coming, so we just need patience.  (note to self - have patience!)

    Also agree about surveys, they can lead to restricted vision and lack of creative innovation.
    (I just want lots of fantastic things to choose from! - not much to ask? lol)
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink