Topic

Spice "war"

Today I was involved in a live in-game debate about whether a bubble tree at the base of the stairs in Flipside on Ix should be replaced with a spice tree.

The bubble contingent said that they just wanted that tree to live and need give no more justification.  One of them said that they love the tree and said I couldn't argue with love. (What's love got to do with it?  What's love, but a second hand emotion?)  Someone also claimed that the aesthetics of the placement of the bubble tree were preferable: that having a bubble tree there looks nicer and is more pleasing in general than a spice tree in the same place, and that that pleasure balances out any efficiency gains I claimed were associated with a pure-spice/gas Ix.

I argued that as the locations spice can grow are more limited than those where bubbles can grow, it makes sense to only grow spice in the spice-friendly locations.  I didn't include a defense of gas because it is far less useful as far as I know and would only confuse the debate.  The main thrust of my arguments was that planting a bubble plant in a row of spice plants is an imposition on the Glitches who come to the street looking for spice.

I am intentionally leaving out the less constructive arguments made by both sides.

I want to be clear here.  I don't think this is something Tiny Speck should or can solve.  If they took away the possibility of us having this problem we'd all end up playing a single-player game.

My goal in starting this thread is to sound out people's thoughts on the question of how to manage shared resources (such as use of tree holes) to maximize everyone's enjoyment of Ur, and more importantly, how to negotiate these solutions over time.  This is not the first, nor will it be the last situation where one person's play style butts up against another's.  Some Glitches just want to watch the world burn.  How do we determine who is cooperating and who is interfering?  How do we handle the anti-social Glitches without ruining the game for everyone else?

I have ideas, but I don't want to bias the discussion any more than I already have in coming out soundly in favor of not wasting the time and currants of people who want or need spice.

Some of the questions I'm posing are:

1) Is subjective beauty more important than objective time?
2) Is the first question answerable?
3) If not, how do we balance the desires of the aesthetes against the desires of the impatient?
4) What procedures do we, as a community, pursue in order to handle these kinds of situations in the future?

But feel free to answer questions I'm asking implicitly or not at all if they are relevant.

Posted 13 months ago by Crag Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • This is why I have a house, and many keys from people.
    So I don't have to argue/debate/rationalize with random people about trees.

    You however, should play how you will, as will anyone else in this game.
    Or invest in a house so you can have all the spice/gas plants you wish.
    Posted 13 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Crag, I recommend view the dozen or so other Spice War threads. 

    No, I am not saying you aren't right to start this one. You may have new things to say on it and a new view point (I don't know... I stopped reading them a while ago).

    More an answer #3 & #4: I don't believe it is possible. And I'm GREAT with that. If we settled on the way everyone wanted to world, the world would become static. And the Giants clearly didn't want a static world. If they did, they would have imagined all trees in their place and not way to change them.
    Posted 13 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've never been involved in or observed any Tree Wars outside of the forum threads that pop up on the subject every so often. I admit I've never actually read through most of them except to get the gist that some people like to poison spice trees and that makes a lot of other people get up in arms.

    I can't help but wonder if the Pro-Spice crowd isn't just a bit excited over the opportunity to play Tree Hero, and swoop in to undo all gas tree or bubble tree replacements.

    The last few times I visited the Spice areas, there was never a shortage of spice trees. Even if there are only a limited number of areas where Spice grows, they still seem plentiful and the Spice Forests can get pretty dense, as opposed to other areas that only allow 2-3 trees total.

    I consider myself a "good" glitch - I like to give more than take and have my own moral compass I follow...But I also acknowledge that not everyone is going to play like I do and they shouldn't! Don't try to squelch the freedom and regulate thoughts & actions.
    Posted 13 months ago by Murple Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I noticed that west or east spice (sorry can't remember which) was only gas trees a few days ago. It would've been nice if they picked one of the streets without spice in the name. I really feel like we need more spice tree areas, because almost every food and drink needs some sort of spice. I end up running through Ix almost everyday just so I can make Hot 'n' Fizzy Sauce. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Lucky Day Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In regards to question #1, the experience of time is also subjective. We all experience time in different ways, at different rates, depending on our state of mind or activity. I can blow an hour mining or harvesting without realizing it, but that 2 minutes on the subway is unbearable.

    Both time and aesthetics are things that are valued differently by different people. One shouldn't take priority over the other. If there had to be a rule, I would say that the rule should correspond to the wishes of the majority. But this is Glitch, where freedom is at a premium and everyone is encouraged to play however they want, so as long as no one is directly hurt, I say let them plant whatever they want. Then counter poison!
    Posted 13 months ago by Singularity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • my opinion is that the spice friendly locations shoud be filled with spice and sometimes gas plants. If they need buble tree to love, nobody prevents to grow it in the backyard of their own houses
    Posted 13 months ago by Rikki-Tikki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have the impression you are indeed not aware of the fact that there have been Spice Wars (without any quotations marks) raging in Ix for last couple of weeks. Not between spice and bubble trees, but rather between the spice trees and gas plants (which you excluded so nicely, because they would complicate the debate).

    Second, you ask your questions in a quite rethorical way, implying that obviously "beauty" is completely subjective, whereas usefulness is not. Which is of course a completely wrong approach, because usefulness is just as subjective as beauty. There seem to be quite a few people playing Glitch who simply don't need spice. Or, even more confusing, there seem to be quite a few people playing Glitch whose "goal" does not consist in accumulating points, energy and XP, but rather in "having fun". Which might or might not include changing the face of Ur how they like it.

    I personally enjoy cooking and I am very happy about the spice trees in Ix, but I think it is completely pointless trying to solve this matter by arguing or looking for reasons or the best argument.

    It is simply something that the majority of players will decide, more or less uncontrolled. If at one point, lots of players decide to kill all spice trees in Ix repeatedly for a longer time (and no organized group opposes them), then, well, spice will become a rare ingredient, and the style of the game and the value of certain things will probably change quite significantly.

    Will that make Glitch an unplayable game? No.
    Will that make Glitch boring? No.
    Will that take the fun out of the game? No, why should it?

    So, I don't see the need to "manage shared ressources".
    It won't work properly anyway. The only result will be bad blood and tons of endless and pointless discussions about who is "right". If I want to listen to that, I can just turn on my TV. So, lets just enjoy the imaginative bit of anarchy in Glitch. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Louis Louisson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah the bubble tree was fun!

    Also, good you didn't confuse it w/ gas trees...it was on the Flipside...which is the spice side :P

    I'm hoping desperately wishing that the bubble tree people were playing. I'm a miner who got botany specifically to join the tree wars.

    I ported specifically to the bubble tree and I'm glad to know the very persistent glitchy who killed and replaced!

    Tree wars are good fun :D
    Posted 13 months ago by M<3tra, obviously Subscriber! | Permalink