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### Topic

#### New signs in the community gardens........

Love them!!!! Good job!
"Share these plots, Share their bounty"
"Plant for everyone, harvest what you need"
"All may plant, all may harvest"
"Free to plant, free to take"

Posted 12 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink

### Replies

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- Without going to see them what do they say Innie?
  Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose | Permalink
- There, I put 4 of them. Only been to 3 gardens. Not sure if they are different at all of them.
  Posted 12 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- Ahhh ok thanks Innie. lol now I will stay far far FAR away from them hehe. You know this gives open season to the greedy ones that offer nothing but take. Good thing I didn't really get involved in the community gardens... they would give me a headache.
  Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose | Permalink
- Hmm, I guess they forgot to put signs in Middle Arbor?
  Posted 12 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- So, it's a socialist game now?
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- Mr Miskatonic, the community gardens are socialist in the sense they are owned by all of the public, yes. Not the whole game though
  Posted 12 months ago by hoppy | Permalink
- Yes, that's definitely the conclusion you should take from this
  Posted 12 months ago by shhexy corin | Permalink
- More anarchistic with a slight threat of "divine" retribution. Its a good thing :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Meatwhistle | Permalink
- Mr. Miskatonic wrote: So, it's a socialist game now?
  Well, judging from the complaints about herb pricing and auction sniping, it's obviously not a capitalist one.*
  *sarcasmface
  Posted 12 months ago by Warrender | Permalink
- The game is still in its infancy. Granted. But, no one can actually specialize in anything. I could be a complete hermit and keep to myself, never trading with anyone and still survive and actually accomplish "most" of the quests and badges etc. I'm also curious as to why Nietzsche and Rand are two new items. That's quite telling to me.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- They're old items that hadn't been in the game at all. Changes to the Rube meant they accidentally slipped through back into the world. So they took them away. There was begging and pleading and they let them into the world properly.
  Posted 12 months ago by shhexy corin | Permalink
- Dem giants do so love a bit of pleading
  Posted 12 months ago by shhexy corin | Permalink
- Bah! It's a struggle, but we can survive. I beseech you my fellow glitch brothers and sisters, do not let this theocracy of unseen giants tell you how to live! With your help I believe we can see a brighter future. I'm here to declare Mazza'La's independence from the "union" of Ur. We shall be a sovereign nation! Band with me and we will build anew!
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- Role plying that you don't like socialism? *scratches head*
  I think the signs are lovely.
  Posted 12 months ago by Feylin | Permalink
- I too love the signs. Maybe I'm in the minority but I find it doesn't really cost me much to run around with stacks of all the seeds and replant any empty plots in the community gardens, even if I don't get a chance to harvest any of them. And a bit of socialism never hurt anybody.
  Posted 12 months ago by Chee42 | Permalink
- Yay! I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes the signs. :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Autumn Breeze | Permalink
- Yes, the new Community Garden with it's posted rules are socialism. Those rules have been unspoken in the past, but now we can see how 'real' socialism works in one corner of the game. It hasn't been very successful thus far and personally I don't think it's going to go well at all for the enthusiasts for socialism. It somewhat mirrors real life. The gardens were pleasant little retreats of sharing before anybody wanted anything grown in them very much, and while the game consisted of a small closed community. The reality of a larger population and a compelling demand for the herb crops has changed that. I am already prepared for the usual 'but this isn't real socialism' disclaimers.
  We have open-for-inspection model housing at several locations in Ur. And museum exhibits in the towers. Maybe the herb growing areas can be dubbed the 'Tragedy of the Commons Memorial Garden.'
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- uh-oh.
  Posted 12 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup | Permalink
- I think that it was a good idea of TS to do this. If you plant the herbs in the community gardens, it's for the community. So, yes, plant what you want, take what you need. Signs really do make a difference. :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Rhubewook | Permalink
- Without getting into the rest of this thread:
  "I am already prepared for the usual 'but this isn't real socialism' disclaimers."
  "But you've set up a straw man."
  "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
  "*sigh*"
  Posted 12 months ago by Meromorphic | Permalink
- The herb garden situation is far more like libertarianism than socialism.
  Maybe that's where the Ayn Rand dolls are coming from.
  Posted 12 months ago by Demyx | Permalink
- Am I the only one amused by the notion of applying any of our world's grand economic or political theories to a game world where resources are constrained primarily by acts of Giants or time that must be spend by the glitch? (And the glitch is, so far as we know, effectively immortal.) So theories built on our real world environmental limits are being applied to a story universe where the limiting factors are godly whims, hostile rooks, and the player's subjective impatience and desire to grab goodies imposed on glitchs who don't need these traits to to survive and prosper.
  The results remind me of watching indoor cats trying to apply living room rules when initially introduced to the back yard. To me, seeing some of the desperate tactics people use to get stuff that almost come of its own accord given enough time has been like watching while a cat first tries to jump onto a shrub: both hilariously awkward and educational. Sometimes the results seem unpleasant and embarrassing for the cat, though.
  By the way, if we sieve out the limitations leaking in -- I can't play as long as I want! -- from our external world, since the glitch's physical environment is so different from ours, the most successful social systems for the glitch should be very different, too. I wonder what they would be? Who wants to be the glitch Machiavelli or Adam Smith?
  Posted 12 months ago by Perry Helium | Permalink
- Perry Helium: it can be amusing, particularly when ideas are misapplied, but it is false that so-called "real world" economic insight does not apply to game economies. The basic setting of multiple agents, scarce resources, and production, distribution, and consumption still is relevant.
  You might be interested to know that EVE Online actually has a PhD. economist on staff because their economy is so complex! Granted, you were talking only about Glitch itself, but just because Glitch is substantially simpler doesn't mean it is completely divorced from "real world" theory.
  Edit: For example, you don't think supply and demand has anything to do with auction prices? Or the money supply with inflation?
  Posted 12 months ago by Meromorphic | Permalink
- I would like to point out that there's a big difference between running around the produce community gardens planting 12c spinach, and running around the herb community garden planting 345c (current auction price) Rubeweed seeds. Planting 4 of those and then having someone come by and say "one for all and all for one!" while stealing your investment must be fairly galling, and I don't suppose the signs help that any.
  Posted 12 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- "the most successful social systems for the glitch should be very different, too. I wonder what they would be? "
  Well, there are several spheres of existence. Here in the forum realm thread campers will win. Account holders can cultivate and curate 'think tank' threads and achieve wizardly heights of theoretical verbiage.
  In the 'in-game realm' people will continue to get along as well as they can, with the help of their friends and generous strangers. There are still very few rules in place, mostly guidelines.
  --------
  The herb garden situation is completely unlike a libertarian scenario. There's no private property at all on the streets that the Community Gardens are located on, aside from the little bits of private property (seeds and guano) that people voluntarily place on plots. It's a totally socialist deal. Which is fine. Nobody is forced to go there. And it's not at all like Communism, which would be where all our houses were nationalized, anybody could go anywhere, and the output of our 'work' in the game would feed into a common pot.
  Under communist glitch, people would still be allowed their badges, maybe even to wear them on Young Pioneer sashes. Additional badges would be created for the socialist hero glitchites with Tinkering 5 who produced the most number of tractors. Statistics on tractor production output would drone on constantly over a public address system which it would be possible to turn down the volume on, but never completely off.
  ----------
  I imagine there are thousands of PhD Economists who would love to be employed by online gaming companies. All with their pet theories to try out. There are budding economists all over, all with their own theories. Sucks to have those student loans to pay off. Better go set up a tent in a park.
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- Good grief some of you sure get your panties all bunched up. Why is it so bad to share? I learned to share when I was a little girl, with my brothers. It was even more ingrained in me when I made it to kindergarten when I was 5. Sharing, even Jesus did it!
  Come on guys. Love your fellow glitch. Relax......have fun.....share a smile. If that doesnt work, then sniff some no no and go to Hell! Surely that would make you smile. Infact, hit me up in game. I will SHARE my no no with you.
  Posted 12 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- Leaving aside the wars thing, the signs will probably be helpful to newbies. I remember stumbling on a community crop garden in my first few levels and there was stuff growing everywhere but I wasn't sure what it was for or if I could take it. Since up until then things you could take were animal and tree resources.
  Sure the wording implies that they are also trying to get people to chill out, but it could also be useful to people who have never used a community garden before.
  Posted 12 months ago by Space Core | Permalink
- Nope, the economic insights that shape the basic setting are not irrelevant, certainly not to we players or the company developers, but I maintain that argues for for my case rather than against it. Such economic insights apply within Glitch world because someone decided they would: glitches could be walking down the streets with girly drinks and massive meat falling out of every tree all the time, after all. It's just that such surroundings would likely make for a boring game and bad business for our hosts so they have chosen to not have that happen. But our world, the world that grand theories like free enterprise try to explain and predict, doesn't usually have to care about player boredom or Tiny Speck's profits. So imposing our grand theories upon Glitch world, unless we're talking about ourselves as players and not glitches as glitches, is confusing scales.
  Believe you me, when the constraining base numbers for the Glitches are largely determined by an economist on staff according to the needs of Tiny Speck and the expressed desires of the players, and not in part by unchosen distribution of parasites or fluvial tin-bearing mineral deposits, the local answers to questions about better and best are different. There's a degree of intentionality to Glitch world that our world doesn't have -- plague bacillus doesn't care about our having fun and spending money while the glitch staff does -- which makes claims about the merits and demerits of various social systems and maximizing behaviors that respond to the indifferent environment that shaped us as a species, when applied to Glitch World, deeply flawed. It's not that the vocabulary and methods of economics or sociology for our world entirely fail, it's that the axioms of our world and Glitch world are different and so are the results. Real world economic circumstances only get into Glitch after being edited; real world insights must be questioned again at the glitchian level.
  One can't say, for example, "Yuck! Theocracy!" for glitches right off the top because it's often been a bad idea in our world. For all we know, the most effective (happiness maximizing? survival enhancing? moral?) social system for a glitch is the one that most efficiently pays attention to tickling the fancy of the giants on any given week. I can feel otherwise as a player and behave accordingly, but I can't say my feeling automatically makes good sense for a glitch or is Teh Trueth. So my choices can end up being pretty hilariously out of place within the glitch setting while seeming self-evident to me.
  Posted 12 months ago by Perry Helium | Permalink
- Parrow Gnolle: replace "socialist" with "anarchist."
  Posted 12 months ago by Meromorphic | Permalink
- Good grief some of you sure get your panties all bunched up. Why is it so bad to share? I learned to share when I was a little girl, with my brothers. It was even more ingrained in me when I made it to kindergarten when I was 5. Sharing, even Jesus did it!
  Sharing is good. Sharing is also voluntary. You say "here, I have something to share with you." That is sharing. Someone else walking up to you, taking your stuff and saying "You are sharing this with me, thanks" - that isn't sharing, that is taking.
  Posted 12 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- I'm glad something is being done about the griefers occupying the gardens like they own them.
  Posted 12 months ago by Octo | Permalink
- Sorry, I'm a foreigner - what's wrong with socialism?
  Posted 12 months ago by Momo McGlitch | Permalink
- I'm not a foreigner - absolutely nothing is wrong with socialism, Momo McGlitch. Some people just like to get crabby about exceedingly stupid things. Like signs...
  Posted 12 months ago by Grem Sketch | Permalink
- Socialism, communism and anarchy only work in an incorruptible population. On the outset socialism is fine, but when you have no means to keep things in check, it all goes to hell. It's a game, I get it. It is supposed to emulate a "community," am I right? The game still needs a lot of work. It just sucks that I could get almost the same amount of quests and work done by not talking or associating with another single person in the game.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- "It is supposed to emulate a "community," am I right?"
  no. it is supposed to *be* a community.
  lots of different communities that operate under lots of different rules, conventions and ideologies are capable of humming along quite happily.
  you can't ascribe blanket qualities to different economic systems. well, you can, and you are, but it is more than a little silly. different systems [economies, technological systems, physics] acquire different characteristics under different conditions and at different scales.
  ..and you should know that Glitch is a kind of centrally planned economic system, almost inevitably. the developers have ultimate control over supply and demand, and exercise this control on a regular basis in the name of "game balance".
  Posted 12 months ago by striatic | Permalink
- My lord people! What started out as a simple post about signs in the community gardens has now turned into a full blown political discussion. <smacks Mr. Miskatonic around the ears> you started this! Does all the threads have to end up political, religious, or philosophical? They are just damn signs for gods sake!
  Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose | Permalink
- Wait... is THIS why we can't have nice things?
  Posted 12 months ago by Jennyanydots | Permalink
- They put up a sign rather than give us a bit more control. Yippee, the gardens are for everyone. We friggin knew that. People are still going to troll and be jerks in general. It doesn't matter if some band together and give and give and give. Idiots will still try to ruin it because there are no consequences. Again, this is a free game that should be pleasant. I could be playing Skyrim for giants sake.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- Casombra, why do you feel compelled to lower the level of every conversation or comment that sails over your head? Just IGNORE it.
  Posted 12 months ago by Aviatrix | Permalink
- There's nothing wrong with political, religious or philosophical discussions. Besides, I thought we weren't supposed to tell people what they can or cannot talk about. (!) There ain't going to be much kindliness and friendliness in Glitch-world if people are getting smacked around the ears for simply having conversation, now is there?
  Posted 12 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- Casombra, I'm keeping it civil. Is it wrong to want to elevate a simple game? The developers are putting a great deal of time into it, why not give our two cents? Seems like everything you post about is how much clothing you've bought. You fellow game players are upset by a handful of inconsiderate people. Just because you don't care, it doesn't mean it's not an issue.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- Basically this means no complaining so much (everyone who is complaining, you did something that allowed the other person to do whatever is complained about). Also, I am looking for herb gardens to plant in! I just want to help others with herbs WHILE I can get some myself:D Please IM me so that we can work something out!:D
  Posted 12 months ago by usterka | Permalink
- Aviatrix if it sailed over my head I would have no clue what they are discussing so your wrong.. dead wrong. This is a game, the thread was discussing the new signs in the gardens.. how darn political or philosophical is that? The producers of this game put signs in the gardens to explain the rules of the community gardens.. pure and simple... I don't think it is any deeper than that.
  I am just getting frustrated that simple threads are being turned into "deeper meanings" when there is no deeper meaning than discussing something new has been put in place, or glitchens are having a party, or players are trying to start up a new group, etc.
  If your suggesting I am an idiot with no intelligence you're very very wrong Aviatrix. When I come on to play a game I try to leave real life behind and enjoy the game. There are times and places to discuss game stuff and real life stuff. May I suggest the off topic section of the forums perhaps?
  Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose | Permalink
- The correct usage would be..."you're very wrong Aviatrix."
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- Yeah yeah so I misspelled something.. so freaking what? Didn't know we were all to be perfect here either... fine I will fix the damn error.. happy?
  Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose | Permalink
- The world - game or real, fictional or non - is way less superficial than you think it is, Casombra. But live it however you like, and let others do the same without having temper tantrums anytime someone starts to look beyond the surface of a thing. Your personal serenity bubble is your problem. Other people don't have to talk down to your level, and you don't have to talk up to theirs. Just live and let live.
  Posted 12 months ago by Aviatrix | Permalink
- How about they make the gardens gated? Every Glitch will need to sign-in to enter. This will create a record of all the little Glitches that visit the gardens. Now, who wants to be the Record Keeper?
  Posted 12 months ago by bayBi | Permalink
- But they're not being off topic... they're talking about the game in a way they enjoy. As far as I know that's allowed.
  ETA: That said things are getting a bit heated and people might be starting to pile on. I think we just all need to stop telling each other the right way to look at things. There's no moral imperative to one view or another re: Glitch, the moral imperative is tolerance.
  Posted 12 months ago by Pomegrandy | Permalink
- I like the gate idea. Maybe with a seed donation box. If you harvest you can't exit without donating a seed or something.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink
- C'mon. No tears. I will make sure you all have a place in free Mazza'La, once we secede. Then you'll wish you had been nicer when the import taxes on herbs are hiked.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic | Permalink

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