Topic

Multi-Threaded forum & Other Forum Ideas or Suggestions

Edit & Update: This is an update in both title and text to my previous forum posting., but since suggestions for forum and group page changes have been appearing lately I decided to expand my original topic  to allow others to contribute suggestions. You do NOT have to reply to the original topic, but it doesn't hurt. I have been adding links to this posting when something related to it pops up,. but this might help consolidated those ideas more easily. I'll try to keep this topic bumped so every contributor has a chance to have their ideas seen and to compare and evaluate the ideas of others like it.
 
Original topic follows:
Today @stoot barfield posted a staff topic soliciting player input. The posts were coming so fast that @stoot's and other peoples responses were appearing far from where the original posting they were replying to appeared. People starting to read the thread were seeing a wall of often lengthy posts and they simply began to skip items to respond to what they had managed to read, sometimes duplicating previous statements by others. Since this thread was also to solicit the opinions of the players the ability to create a polled response would have been helpful in this instance. I tried to find some forum software that would allow what is called "multi-threading". Rather than each response being connected only to the original post the respondent may also connect their reply to another poster's statement instead, possibly even changing the topic title in that instance. Unable to find any suitable "off-the-shelf" software at this time, I'm starting the process of writing my own.
Current plans:
I plan to use the Bonfire framework which is a new extension of the more general CodeIgniter framework. It also supports HMVC functionality.  I already have a working template file for this so I have a head start here (I was a first adopter). For the forum text editor I've selected the CK Editor. It's open source with a "copy left" license. It is also an AJAX editor with full JQuery support. For the general database functionality I'm using the CodeIgniter database extension DataMapper ORM v.1.8.1

I haven't selected any specific polling tool yet.

Suggestions? Criticisms?  Volunteers? Need help with all the geek-speak?

Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • -1: honestly, I wish the forum software was a little more traditional in the capabilities it has, like being able to link specific posts, track threads directly, clear editing capabilities, search for my own threads and maybe others, etc, more then I want multithreading. Well, okay, not gonna lie, polling would be nice too, but I leave that up to the discretion of the staff.

    I've also seen (and participated) in big ol' multithread discussions: while it does help, even in that, I've seen the kind of clustering and duplication that there was today? Because given a problem, a background, and a generalized set of behaviors, people come up with a lot of the same ideas, mid thought, midstream.

    Please note that despite this wording, my attitude isn't particularly vehement, I just don't quite see the need to shift paradigm yet.

    > clarification: some of these features are there, but they don't feel very much utilized or integrated? may just be my opinion.
    Posted 17 months ago by Caesura Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fokian, Might need some help with the geek-speak, though I'm not totally illiterate.  Was totally blinded by the endless conglomeration of posts in response to Stoot's discussion and worn out by the time I got to.. well.. now :)  So much so that I just didn't know how to "chime in" without feeling like some kind of ditto.

    Volunteer?  Sure :)  Sounds ambitious on your part!  I'm averagely OCD and wishing for just a bit more forum organization..  Am linlorra@gmail.com
    Posted 17 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Princess Fi - Yep, you are in my Google+ Circles. :) I'm not sure yet how to set up a collaboration but that's why this thread.

    @Caesura - Right now I'm developing off this site on my own host. I hope to use the Glitch API to integrate where possible. I'm not trying to change the overall look and feel any more than it can be avoided. These forums are very uncluttered and clean looking (on the surface - I've found problems in the underlying code I've bug reported). Mostly instead of just having  a reply box all the way at the bottom, there will be a link on the same line as the posters name at the bottom of each post. Probably at a +1/-1 feature :)
    Polling would be limited to the original post and below any comments by that poster. I'm looking at the LimeSurvey package right now. It's open source and under the GPL licensing scheme.

    Ok. Some clarification of the geek speak in the original post:
    A framework is a set of different pieces of programming code to do a lot of things. The advantage is that a developer doesn't have to write the stuff himself and try testing it for error. The framework has already been heavily tested and is stable. People often create new add-on code for an existing framework expand what the original package can do.
    The job of the database is to track and store who the posters are, the forum titles, the topic titles, the threads, the survey's and responses, and the actual postings and link them together. To make it easier to manage this I'm using an addition to the framework I plan to use called "DataMapper" - it greatly simplifies how this gets done. The framework I selected doesn't include any text input tools of any note, at least none that would be worthwhile for a forum or bulletin board. So I found one that uses a combination of technologies called AJAX. You see that at work on Google searches for instance when you see it make search suggestions. It allows changes to a web page to occur and communication with the hosting site without have to reload an entire page. The text editor here is CK Editor. (I'll be providing links to the documentation, examples, or other reference at the end here). I've been having problems finding a decent poll/survey package that is user editable. I'm getting LimeSurvey and changing it to fit (I hope!). Tiny Speck and I both use a type of software called PHP to generate web pages and so all the packages I've selected are PHP based.

    PHP Docs
    CodeIgniter Docs (I've actually helped on this manual)
    Bonfire Docs
    DataMapper Docs
    LimeSurvery Website
    CK Editor Demo

    And for a bonus:
    JQuery Tools Demos Glitch devs might want to check out the Tooltips feature. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's 1 am here US Central Time and I'm starting the outlines of the project code. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fwiw, I agree with Caesura and would prefer that the official forums remain single-threaded.
    Posted 17 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would really like to see the forums divided into categories. As it currently stands, it is overwhelming - very difficult to find anything.
    Posted 17 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Visual minimalism doesn't equal code minimalism, true. But minimalism doesn't have anything to do with the way I think about discussions. (In fact, I think these forums are maybe a tad too minimalistic, visually, if they didn't match the site design.)

    I am also less of a fan of AJAX for reloading pages when it comes down to it, but I do like inline replying. I've seen AJAX choke out when it comes to this sort of big ol' discussion and I also have a terrible internet connection. More scripting is not necessarily better, here!
    Posted 17 months ago by Caesura Subscriber! | Permalink
  • AJAX is a tentative idea there. I'm trying to maintain the same clean and uncluttered appearance and still allow the the multi-threading. Normally most you would see is a few extra links at the bottom of each posting ("Reply", "Quote", "Thread"). I'm trying to keep the scripting to a minimum too. There is a possible feature request for email notification, but I'm worried about the server load issue. Thanks for the comments.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cereulian - (Pardon if I misspelled that!) gave me the idea of a "Mute" for certain posters, topics or threads. Does that sound like a good idea?
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmmm.. not sure FF.  It would be easy to say yes and I can think of more than one time that I might have been tempted to do so.  Yet I consider - do I not want to know what others are thinking or saying however troubling I may find it to be?  I guess, to each their own.. If there is a Mute button, one can choose it or not.. no harm - no foul?
    Posted 17 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • - See the first line of the last reply to a thread

    Groups:
    - Get notifications when a post has been made in a group (should be optional to turn this on)
    - On your group homepage, see for each group the newest post (or timestamp of newest post)
    - Filter on unread threads
    - Mark threads as read
    (actually a sort of basic functionality like www.simplemachines.org/)

    Or check this: demo.coconutcenter.com/
    It's meant as an intranet for companies, but it can be used very well for something like Glitch. It isn't free though.
    Logindetails:
    www.coconutcenter.com/over-...
    It's in Dutch but you'll figure out the important things I guess.
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • - Oh a possibility to subscribe to a thread
    - Sticky threads

    I really had to get used to the posting here, that names are very tiny on the bottom of the post.
    Would be nice to see the name in the chatballoon next to the post, or at least a bigger difference between different posts (alternating colours?)

    - Embedding images
    - Possibility of using a bulleted list
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Somewhat OT, but I really love that stoot takes enough time to consider and type out his answers that the distance between question and answer even became an issue. We Glitchen are so loved! (Or, better yet, respected and valued. And that's awesome.)
    Posted 17 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Images in the posts may be a problem.  They represent massive amounts of storage, bandwidth, and security risks. That' will require thought.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • to expand on some points from earlier:
    It would be nice if the messages from inside the game showed up on your data stream: as far as I can recall, they don't show up on your current events stream. They don't have to be "public events", ie, viewable to all, because that would be unwieldy, but in cases where groups want to communicate one on one when their members are too busy to enter the game but can leave the basic site open it would be helpful.

    Similarly, it would be nice if at some point that group forum(s) view had a "posts last updated" date underneath. some groups don't use their forums but some do: and in each case now, we have to go and check manually. it would prevent what I suspect from my own experience currently what is a long lag time between replies. the group chats are nice, but since glitch is a worldwide game, not all players are in the same time zone, and communication happens at a delay that is only likely to increase as the spread becomes wider. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Caesura Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Caesure - I don't know about the in-game streams showing up on the out-of-game. Right now what I hope to put together here tries to maintain the same level of server overhead that exists as much as reasonably possible. This is simply an extension to the existing forum structure.  If there is an option the API to support streams, I'd be all for it though. This is a very social game and adding additional members to an in-game chat stream without the full burden of the game running probably would be a lesser load on the servers.
    I hadn't planned on doing anything with groups setup originally. Your idea is credible though, but how about this counter-proposal? Merge the group posting streams into the main board streams? Just the groups that that particular member is subscribed to of course.
    Simply reflect them into the General forum and mark the topic title accordingly.
    It would be nice to add friends' text updates into the same stream as well (not the achievement stuff or all the in-game updates, just their self-entered personal updates).
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is just a thread bump... BUMP!! :)
    Posted 16 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Folkian: I meant, as in mail, pretty much. Not all the stuff in the game, but the fact that mail is only accessible throught the game client is noticeably kind of anoying at this point: given the work the team has put into making the game accesible via mobile, it would be nice if mail crossed over to this, given that when pepole travel it is easier to bring their mobile devices then their computers.

    I happen to like the groups page being separate at this point because it is easier to go back and look at the cluster of topics in one group as they may apply to the current topic, and also to track what group is discussing what.

    I also don't really want to see the friends stuff being merged into the forums stuff because I view that as separate data. It would be really akward to read.
    Posted 16 months ago by Caesura Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gotcha
    (And thread bump too!)
    Posted 16 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also now that I'm thinking of this, the ability to subscribe to a closed yet public group's updates (this comes to mind) would be lovely.
    Posted 16 months ago by Caesura Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bumping and adding a permalink to other related threads. We need a way to better pin topics too.
    Posted 16 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Fokian Fool: Wanted to get a bit of clarification on what you're proposing to do. Are you working on your own bit of forum software to only manage posting and responses to suggestions for @stoot & co.? Or is this a complete alternative to these forums?

    I've been thinking that the best thing would be something like GetSatisfaction's community support, ie. Foursquare's GetSatisfaction. It's got everything built in for dividing topics into categories, voting topics up, and assigning status to topics and managing them (open vs closed issues). Up-voting gets the most important and popular topics in front of devs.
    Posted 16 months ago by SleepyAce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Never heard of before. Thanks, @Sleepy Ace. I was planning on working on my own bit of forum software. 
    Let me break down some of the criteria as I originally planned this:
    1. Has (as much as possible) the same overall appearance as the existing forums.
    2. Only add a few additional links in each thread to allow replying to a specific poster rather than the whole thread. Also to allow following any new chains created by such replies (multi-threading).
    3. Allow a topic to be entered from:
    a. The original post.
    b. The first unread posting for each user.
    c. The newest post.
    4. Allow post creation to add complex polling with result page.
    5. Add a +1/-1 feature to each posting or sub-thread.
    6. Allowing the dynamic addition of additional forums and sub-forums by staff.
    7. Allow users to block/unblock topics, threads, or other users.
    8. Make the output pages fully W3C standards complaint according to the standard select by the HTML type declaration (important for mobile devices).

    I've also been paying attention other suggestions. The idea of incorporating the groups' forum structure and allow subscribed group postings to be added to the general forum stream is something I'm considering, as well as email notifications (these are just one's I can remember off of the top of my head).

    I planned on hosting a test version on my own server for test purposes with the idea that if Tiny Speck found it fitting then I'd make it freely available to them. I'm also looking for assistance writing this. I already have a functional body of code from a current client project:back end, page template system, etc.

    I did look at your suggested product. I don't think it would fit the aims of Tiny Speck and would raise costs (guess where those would have to be passed on to). 

    Tiny Speck is letting me use a valuable intellectual product for free and it's one I greatly enjoy and want to see thrive, therefore I'm more than willing to put forth my own skills, abilities, and talents to that end. This project is consistent with that desire.
    Posted 16 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, I wasn't intending for Tiny Speck to use GetSatisfaction. Just pointing out that it's a good implementation of forums with strong customer support features.

    I've worked on some CMS implementations before but never any coding from ground up. So I'd be glad to lend a hand wherever I can and where needed. Used Expression Engine for my last company's website so could be some similarities to CodeIgniter (both products of Ellis Labs).
    Posted 16 months ago by SleepyAce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • CodeIgniter I think is used for Expression Engine. I've even helped with the manual. :) I'm interested in using the CI derivative, Bonfire. It's NOT a CMS, but it provides the backend and template components for one. It's a recent collaborative effort like CI itself.
     
    I am interested in your offer!
    Posted 16 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bump!
    Posted 16 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah — while I appreciate the offer, I can say with 100% confidence that there is 0% chance we'd integrate a separately-developed forum into Glitch itself. It would be *much* faster to implement any features we thought lacked than integrate some other codebase which is not already tied in to our existing systems/templates/tools.

    (Also, while I can tell you're excited, it's bad form to keep bumping your own thread ;)
    Posted 16 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stoot - Sorry about that. I'm a pretty excitable individual, and the recent illness left me a little less critical in my thinking for a while.  I realized that much later when you commented in another thread. :)  I'm not unfamiliar with non-recoverable costs of development. I appreciate you taking the time to respond though. I'm continuing the project on my own as I believe there exists possibilities yet for it. But right now I'm having more fun playing with the API. :p
    Posted 16 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink