Topic

Pignapping should have consequences

There should be a large mood debuff (maybe "guilt"?) coupled with the cooldown you get after a pignap.

Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • -5. pignapping is the basis of a quest, and you have to steal three of them from the streets to complete it. it seems that would make the quest a bit pointless if you had to suffer so much to complete it.

    i also just don't understand the reasoning behind this idea.
    Posted 14 months ago by Rev. Desdemona Subscriber! | Permalink
  • there is a buff? you cant steal more than one per street and there is a 10 minute buff between each steal
    Posted 14 months ago by Sperkle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @MiMiBerry they mean one that would make your mood plummet after you steal a pig.
    Posted 14 months ago by Rev. Desdemona Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Whether pig-napping is a good or bad thing is very dependent on circumstances.  Moving pigs from crowded streets to empty streets can actually be a better way of distributing resources.  And since you can only do one at a time, it's a lot of work.  I think the current restrictions are fine.
    Posted 14 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No thank you.
    I'm guilt free about my pignapping and like to stay this way :D
    ...after all there is a quest that requires 3 to be pignapped, so if it was at all "bad" it wouldn't be part of the game. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @desdemona, yes I realize it's a quest.  I've completed said quest.  You could always just have a drink to increase your mood after the debuff.

    @Mereret, yes, pignapping has its usefulness, but it can also be easily abused.  Mood loss is not a big deal.  It can be replenished by drinks.  This would at least make it a little more costly to engage in massive pignapping and make you think twice about it...maybe.  As for redistributing the population, that's probably best handled through coordination, not a 1 Glitch effort.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "pignapping has its usefulness, but it can also be easily abused."

    maybe i've been reading about them too much lately, but this reminds me somewhat of the tree wars. the devs want us to be able to grow, shift, and change the world in these ways. if they didn't, the mechanics wouldn't be in place and we'd only be able to raise piggies from eggs. they've already put restrictions in place to keep any one player from stealing all the piggies on one street, and that's more than fair and more than enough.
    Posted 14 months ago by Rev. Desdemona Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let me clarify:  I fully support pignapping.  It's a useful tool for redistribution when populations get out of whack.  What I'm saying is the current mechanisms to keep the activity under control are not strong enough to deter mischievous behavior.

    Let's take a look at an example.  As of the time of this writing, there are 17 piggies in Groddle Heights, spread out over 10 streets.  I could, conceivably, reduce the population in the entire region by more than half in under 2 hours.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i get what you're saying, but what i'm trying to get across is that you're playing in a sandbox game that allows for and encourages mischievous behaviour. yes, you could conceivably reduce the region's pig population by more than half. and that's your right if that's what you want to do. if the piggy population is so important, someone will come in and repopulate. but just like the tree wars, it's not up to you, me, or anyone else to decide that someone else's gameplay is "mischievous" and should therefore be discouraged.

    "Just wanted to say this: the discussion here has been fascinating, and the fact that people are ready to roll their sleeves up to talk about this is *why* our community is so great, in my opinion. Gameplay currently allows for people to go on a rogue Spice-tree killing spree. But, there is also the space for counter-efforts, should enough people disapprove and mobilize their voices (or green thumbs) against it. Sounds like....politics?Posted 13 days ago by Blanky"
    i don't see them changing it anytime soon, and i certainly hope they don't.
    Posted 14 months ago by Rev. Desdemona Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I also get what you're saying desdemona, but at present, the cost of undoing such mischievous (yes, I consider doing stuff just because, and with no benefit to anyone, as "mischievous")  activity is much higher.  Someone could run around napping piggies at a cost of 25 currants per bait.  If I want to "undo" the depletion of piggies, it costs me considerably more in materials to season eggs, buy already seasoned eggs and then hatch them, or buy the hatched piglets.  I could run around napping piggies from other areas, but then I'm really no different than the original napper.  There's a pretty large imbalance between adding piggies to the world and removing them from the world.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Do you want the cool-down for pig napping to be day long or something?
    Posted 14 months ago by MeansDarling Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I want it to be just as costly, if not more, to nap a piggy as it is to create one.  The current system encourages removing stuff from the world with little incentive to adding stuff to the world.  People are free to nap piggies at 10 minute intervals and many are unfortunately thrown down shrines.  People who try to repopulate see their work undone within hours.  It's costly to repopulate piggies from scratch, and if they're just going to get stolen again, why bother?
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Please consider a debuff or some negative to pignapping, I've had many pignapped in my area, and the biggest problem is that while one person can only pignap from one street per 42 days (which is a good time limit!), there are tons of people doing this, and then just auctioning them.

    My only way to combat this? pay them, IF they're on auction, and chances are a next person usually comes and just naps it again anyway! Eventually they just get donated or sold to the NPC and then that's that, if pig bait were 'craftable' and cost more than the cost of making a pig this would be more than enough of a downside, currently they only need to spend 50 currants on pig bait and can then go ahead and sell the hogtied pig for an actual profit of about 350 currants. I'd simply propose pig bait costing 500~1,000 currants, no one would ever sell hogtied pigs under the amount (without losing money), and the quest would still be very doable.

    Yes this has a single downside, moving your own pigs will be a bit more of a problem (those in your backyard), but anyone with a house can spare 500 as opposed to 50, I'd simply suggest raising the rates of rejection of 'wild pigs', and lower them for domestic pigs, so it might be nearer to 50~60% chance on a wild pig, but closer to 90-95% chance of catching 'your own pig'.

    I'm all for people being able to take pigs, but the main problem here is that when it's just mischievous that's not a problem, but people are actually making money selling pigs that are out and about, so it's more than just mischievious behavior, it's systematically removing pigs in a way that allows them to profit off of someone else's work. Why should it cost me 200~ currants to make a pig, but them only 50 to take it? This leads to very onesided work.

    Actually I pulled that 200 out of my ass, but currently, to make a pig:
    7 Hard Bubbles - (35 Plain Bubble) - Decent chance of failure without learning Bubble Tuning (Requires Bubble Tuner) - value: 105c ( 42 Energy to make Hard)
    2 Potatoes - (2/7 Potato Seed +11 Hours) - value:40c for seedpack
    1 Egg - Harvest, not much maybe 5 Energy
    3 Apples - (9 Cherries) - Chance of failure without Fruit Changing (Requires Fruit Changing Machine) - value: 15c
    Depending on whether you factor in the machines or not this is either near 50c or closer to 100+c.

    You need 2 tools to even start making piglet eggs, need to spend 11 hours or using guano to raise the potatoes, eggs are easy, and then you also need to tune bubbles and use a fruit changing machine. It also requires Animal Husbandry to make these and only Herdkeeping for pigs, which is faster to learn overall. You can make 20 new characters, teach them all Herdkeeping and then go emptying out streets for 50cxPig roughly. Very open and able to be used for abuse and trolling.
    Posted 14 months ago by Bluigi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Very well said, Bluigi.  You articulated my argument very well.  It's precisely this imbalance that I'm against.  Not the act of pignapping itself, but rather how easier it is to remove piggies from the game than it is to bring them into the game.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, also another little point to add, it seems pig bait was cheaper than I thought. 25c, not 50c.

    It might as well be free, I can get 25c in 2 minutes.

    and thanks Joojoo
    Posted 14 months ago by Bluigi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with the OP. Currently the game mechanics strongly incentive-ize piggy stealing.
    The cost of hogtying a piggy is 20 energy, and 25c for piggy bait, and a 10 min cooldown. The hog-tied piggy is worth 500c for a vendor or donation. Given this dynamic, it's a good idea to use hog-tied piggies for donations or selling to vendors or other glitchens, but it reduces the population on the street for everyone to nibble.
    Posted 14 months ago by Niqster Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, buying a 25 currant item and getting an adult pig worth 500 currants is leading to huge balance problems.  Bait should cost about 150c, since the encyclopedia cost of pig egg raw ingredients plus 3 veggies to get the piglet to adulthood is 113c.  Then it makes more economic sense to hatch new piggies for your yard once you have AH, but it doesn't gimp HK the way 500c bait would.  I would also suggest making it impossible to donate, sell, or auction a hog tied pig.  It should be a special item where you either release it in your backyard or on another street or it squirms free once the timer is up.

    As I think about it more, HK needs to be rethought.  Even if bait goes to 150c, why should I release pigs onto the street?  I'm setting loose a piglet with 450c value for someone to take and put in their backyard for 150c.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are many of us that think it is sick and perverted to pet & nibble pigs in public. We at the Ur Piggie Protectorate believe such acts are better left behind closed doors. If you feel the same way about protecting others from these depraved acts of public molestation, please join us: http://www.glitch.com/groups/RHVSA9ECCBE2HRG/
    Posted 14 months ago by Mr. Touch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Scratch that.  After seeing Mr. Touch's post, I propose that pig bait cost the same 500c an adult pig costs.  Apparently HK does need a serious economic nerf.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You do know that if you throw a piggy in a shrine, a new piggy magically pops into place on the street? It's not depleting the piggy population at all if you pignap to throw them into shrines.
    Posted 14 months ago by Kaessa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Kaessa: Do you have an official post that confirms that or is this purely speculation?  Because you speak with certainty but I have not seen any staff officially confirm that suspicion.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The only reason so many pigs are taken is cause they can be auctioned or sent to a shrine..Both motives which mean $$$. And people want the $$ so they can buy the big houses and all the other stuff...So the solution isnt to change the limits on taking pigs or raise the feed...Just make it so hogtied pigs cant be auctioned or donated...Like the bags and other items cant...Real simple..Then the only ones hogtied are either for the quest or for someones back yard..Oh and have a number limit on the amount of pigs in a space..The bigger the yard the more pigs you can have up to a certain number and same with the streets. I ran into one street over run with Pigs and coulnd t do much..Either the pigs go in the way or they slowed the computer system down dramatically...Current limit on Pigs (From what I read is 25) 26 or more and they start dying from being sad..Lower that and make maybe 6 the top number per street?? Also acording to what I read pigs are happier if they have chickens and butterflys with em but that doesnt negagte the 26 pig or more rule...
    If the market to make $$ isnt there it should average itself out pretty quick...
    Posted 14 months ago by Me, Myself and I Subscriber! | Permalink
  • PS. The shrine pigs reapearing...Or even if Pigs respawn at all has yet to be answered by the game deelopers...Until they answer it its just congecture.
    Posted 14 months ago by Me, Myself and I Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Joojoo: I do not have official confirmation, but I've seen it over hundreds of donations, and I re-verified over the past few hours by specifically tracking numbers and names of pigs on the streets, donating a pig, and re-counting/re-checking names of pigs a few minutes later.

    Every single time there is a new un-named "Piggy" after a shrine donation. Try it yourself.  I've found this is always a great way to get an extra couple of nibbles from a street that I donate on.
    Posted 14 months ago by Kaessa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mr. Touch - And I don't care if you do, but you should be paying more to do it, not profiting directly off of it.

    I'm all for a dichotomy here, I don't want it to be "Oh man you can never steal my pigs hahahaa", but I want you to not be profiting while you're also undoing my work, and doing it for cheaper than I am.
    Posted 14 months ago by Bluigi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As others have mentioned, it is part of a quest. And if they have tons of drinks on hand I don't think it would be much of a hindrance? :/

    Personally I think a solution would be to make piggies give a lot less favor/currants when donated/sold. That way people who are getting them for houses can still do so, and those who are selling/donating them might start looking elsewhere at other more effective items to donate/sell instead.
    Posted 14 months ago by Sunburst Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I guess this really means that the 10 piggies I placed at Lavu Lane were really pig-napped.  I had thought they had all died.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pming Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree that pignapping should not be profitable. Some have suggested fixes that discourage auctioning but still allow people to capture piggies for their own houses. Why? It's still selfish to steal a public resource that anyone can use and take it to your house where only you can use it. Piglets don't cost that much and pig eggs cost even less. If you can afford the house, you can afford to get your pigs honestly. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Joan of Dark Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not sure what the answer is but there certainly seems to be am imbalance here. Even though pigs on housing streets are public property, as noted above, it can take a lot of effort (and considerable resources) from the house owners on that street to create and maintain the pigs and keep them alive. Therefore, it is upsetting when they are taken, even though no one technically owns the pigs. Maybe the answer for now is that we all stop making pigs for public places until these issues are addressed? I'm not really pro locking down items in housing blocks so that only residents of that street can remove them, as this would interfere with the free feeling of the game mechanics and make things too rigid. But it is unfair that at such minimal cost pigs can be whisked away leaving an endless task for residents to continually repopulate the street with pigs.
    Posted 14 months ago by Violet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps piggies should just be the same as chickens and butterflies.

    Right now, I can only think of one legit reason why they can be kidnapped - that hog-tying quest.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pming Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The other legit reason is to "rescue" piggies from places without food or to redistribute them.  I've seen piggies created in the mines in Ix where there isn't a tree.  Someone just recently found a bunch of starving piggies stranded on a floating island and had to get a bunch of players to help relocate them. Not all players know that piggies have to have food or can be overcrowded.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh yes, I forgot about that.

    Then, I suppose piggies should be made more independent of player interaction?

    No matter, I will not be releasing piggies in streets until I'm certain they'll stay there.  The only reason why I released piggies in Lavu Lane was because I wanted to be a good neighbor.  If my work is only adding to pignappers' wallets, of course I won't be inclined to release piggies ever again.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pming Subscriber! | Permalink