Topic

I think TS missed an opportunity...

...to create the more interdependent economy they say they want.  Distilling should not have been made a prerequisite for Tincturing and Potionmaking; rather, they should have been mutually exclusive, i.e. "If you choose to learn Distilling, you cannot learn these other skills, and vice versa."  That would have increased the likelihood of purchase/barter interactions between those with crop gardens (who would be more likely to distill) and those with herb gardens (who would use the hooch to produce the finished tinctures and potions).  As it is, only the sale of raw ingredients such as corn, potatoes, and herbs will be increased, and raw ingredients are always more readily available and less expensive than a finished product (unless TS does away with the produce vendors).  And without the ability to distill, it would make no difference what your AK level is if you're growing herbs, gathering grain would not be an option for you.  Just some thoughts, don't know if anyone else feels the same.

Posted 13 months ago by Berry Goode Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Ummm no. I am one Glitchen that tends to be self-supporting and self-sufficient as much as possible and happy to be way. I do not feel I should be forced into depending on the auction or other Glitchen to make my way around.
    Posted 13 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like to be self-supporting as well, but TS does repeatedly indicate that they want a more economically-interdependent world, so I was just pointing out their missed opportunity to do so.
    Posted 13 months ago by Berry Goode Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think I would like to be told that I can't do something. There are plenty of things in the game that I'm not interested in doing, but it's my own choice and I like it that way better.
    Posted 13 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Casombra and Flowery on this one. Besides, with the prevalence of things like the auction snipers, I would just be setting it for a different item. I can't imagine I would bother to go looking for an actual person when they would post their tinctures on the ah and I would put my hooch up for them. It just seems like a better system to let everyone enjoy any activity
    Posted 13 months ago by Xanax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with everyone on this one and propose a Real Life solution.  In real life I'm not prevented from doing much of anything but am hampered by not having enough time.  Therefore I have to prioritize. 

    If I discover a few new interests at the same time, It would likely be impossible for me to learn all of them and devote the time to fully understand each of them and become a Master.  So I have to choose the one that most interests me and run with it while I dabble in the others.

    Maybe if you choose one path as your primary you learn at an accelerated pace and the others at a much slower pace?  Or your output for your mastered skill is higher than your output for the skills in which you only have time to dabble?  Seems like either of both of those would be more inline with real life.

    (And not to imply that the entire goal is to make Glitch comply with real life.  I still want to nibble on some pigs!)
    Posted 13 months ago by Wiggy Óg Dónal Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just putting this out there: distilling is a basic RL chemist's skill & therefore totally appropriate as a prereq for potions & tinctures. I am so excited that my skill tree finally grew :)
    Posted 13 months ago by Aleph Zero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Munch Maybe the Distilling/Tincturing/Potion example was a bad example as I agree with you on that.
    Posted 13 months ago by Wiggy Óg Dónal Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In Glitch, as in life, I'd prefer to be a Jane of many trades and a master of few. I wouldn't want to be limited in my exploration of the world, other than by my own interests.

    As more and more skills are introduced to the world people will naturally gravitate to those that interest them, and buy the goods and services they find tedious to acquire themselves. I already know many glitchen who hate cooking and only use the auction or their friends to get food and drinks. If there's ever a "sport" related skill, you may be sure I'll be subcontracting for that one.
    Posted 13 months ago by Epilady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe if you choose one path as your primary you learn at an accelerated pace and the others at a much slower pace?  Or your output for your mastered skill is higher than your output for the skills in which you only have time to dabble? 

    Essentially, that is what the 'learning penalty' does.  If you learn your primary skills first, there is no penalty applied.  It is only after those are learned that you start learning more and more slowly.  And 'mastering' a skill gives you much higher output than the skills that you haven't learned.
    Posted 13 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It wouldn't be necessary to make skills mutually exclusive.  C.f.: http://www.glitch.com/forum/ideas/13174/
    Posted 13 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like being able to do everythIng, the idea of using alts to have fun with this game would make me quit in a hurry. I have in the past bought things I need like when I bought 250 cherries so I could make a whole bunch of drinks. But to tell me that just because I like cooking I can't go mining is so the opposite of what this game is for me that I would just leave.
    Posted 13 months ago by Octo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I completely agree with the topic creator. I don't understand the Glitch-island mentality. The game is supposed to be social, and a powerful social expression is relying on the community to do for you what you are unable to.
    Posted 13 months ago by Zinfidel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let people who really want to be islands be islands, but I think there's definitely a mistake in encouraging solo-play.  Cross-giant skill dependencies do exactly that.  I have to have Mining I to make powders - why wouldn't I just go all the way and do all my own mining?
    Posted 13 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As the skill tree gets deeper, you will find that it will take years to learn the entire tree. Consider all of the current skills the basic skills. Players will be massively unlearning when they want to go deeper in another tree. There will be dependence on other players. The tree just isn't deep enough yet.
    Posted 13 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Dawgg or some will roll alts to not be forced to depend on the auction or other players that want to charge up the wazoo for their goods.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • too true. good call. but that would technically be against the rules. but how would they enforce/police that.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Believe me, there're ways to find that kind of thing. I remember similar alt issues popping up in another game I played in, and the dev had ways to catch it coded into his game.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kaja Rainbow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • OP has a good point. There are similar discrepancies elsewhere. Not being able to buy a house that has herb and crop plots. This prevents someone from being a good distiller AND potion-maker.
    It's understandable that you can't always have exactly what you want, but it should be a fundamental paradigm in the game.
    Some things that could help:
    1. Have "Primary Career Paths" and "Secondary Career Paths"
      -Each primary has 7 levels, each secondary has 3-5
      -Secondary paths support your Primary e.g., Agriculture/Cooking, Geology/Crafting, etc...
      -Primaries can have multiple shared Secondaries e.g., Agriculture and Geology can have potion-making because it shares some elements
      -Secondaries can not be chosen outside your primary without severe learning/implementing penalties e.g, 50%reduced effectiveness and 50% increased learn time
      -Secondaries can be added up to two and can be switched for other secondaries at relatively little penalty
      -Primaries can be switched, but would require significant effort. And you would lose access to previous primary skillsets
      -Switching to a primary that shares 1 secondary would ease the transition, two, even more-so
      -You will be able to learn any single, entry-level skill from any path, but it will be classified as a "Hobby"

    Those are just some thoughts I've had after playing the game for a little...

    A couple of additions to the game that wouldn't require a complete over-haul...
    1. To add to the sharing/community aspect of the game, Glitches with full mastery (e.g., AK7) could have combo quests with novices (AK1) that speed the novices learning time of said skill (e.g., find an AK7 Glitch, they will give you <AK1-quest-scroll> (provided by the game to all Glitches that achieve AK7), complete quest (e.g., Collect 500 grain one Glitch day) and report back... or something... in essence Glitch Apprenticeships
    2. Limit access to vendors after Mastery in any skill AK7, Gardening 5, etc... This would promote trading and auctions!

    Cheers!
    Posted 12 months ago by Giggle-Fritz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm overall anti-restrictions. Interdependence will emerge just from player preferences (such as me buying sparkly instead of going out and hunting for sparkly rocks to mine, despite having Mining 4). I don't consider Mining 4 a waste, though, because it lets me quickly and efficiently mine any rocks that I happen to see and feel like mining. Likewise, I can make tools, but I mostly can't be bothered to do so. I'd rather just buy them off the auction market.

    If I was locked into my early skill choices, I'd be bored. I wouldn't still be playing this game. Some of my favorite skills I didn't get until considerably later. I consider the learning time penalties sufficient incentive already.

    As for limiting vendors, if that was to happen, I would really want a way put in to buy specific quantities from players. I often don't want to buy whole lots of produce or whatever I'm buying from the vendor, since the leftovers will linger in my inventory. It's often odd quantities that I want, not the quantities that are put up on auction. If that's addressed, though, I have no real objections.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kaja Rainbow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yarrow-I always thought that no man(person/Glitch) was an island. Though I suppose living on one could present some interesting challenges.
    Posted 12 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think it's OK to having all skills available. There are disadvantages to having only one skill tree. For example, if a glitch specialized only in the mining skill, then he would probably be tied down to a particular area (where mining is most profitable). At least if he tires of mining, there are other skills he can try out. 
    Posted 12 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Giggle-Fritz: you did an admirable amount of thinking there! *applauds* But with all due respect, what you describe sounds a lot like having to do chores. Calling it "career paths" makes it too real-life-ish! I'd much rather play a game and have relaxing fun, doing what I feel like doing at different times based on what mood I'm in. 

    I think players will naturally become somewhat specialized over time. I've already found that I have some skills that I don't use and will be unlearning as soon as I can. For those things, I'll happily depend on other Glitchen to provide what I may need in those areas. So community interdependence will still happen; it just needs to be given more time for people to figure out for themselves where their interests lie.
    Posted 12 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink