Topic

About those "wood trees", poisoning, and related tree/wood things...

So, okay, tree poison was added, so that we could landscape and replace one kind of tree with another kind of tree.

So, okay, tree poison bummed some people out, because some people thought killing trees is boo-hoo sad and because some other people amused themselves by using poison liberally.

So, okay, limits were placed on tree poisoning. I'm not even sure exactly what these are, but now there's the big mood hit and perhaps a limit on the number of trees one can poison in a given length of time and/or at a given location.

And, okay, antidote was added, with the notion of stopping the evil tree killers.

And, okay, wood trees were added, with the notion that then people wouldn't kill trees to get lumber.

It all drives me a little batty (as I have discussed on before), all the bandaids that have been put on things in this particular ecosystem.

But let me point out some things in my experience with the current state of the bandaid world:
1. Wood trees turn out to be nearly useless, unless planted in someone's home. I spent one day killing the now ubiquitous cherry trees and trying to plant some wood trees. But they can't get going because people can easily chop them down to the ground. I have not seen a wood tree that has more than two whacks left in it.
2. The notion of a "wood tree" is wack to begin with. (And not in a clever way, like some of the wacky Glitchy things... just a step up from a plank spawn point.)
3. I'm sure someone is having fun with the cherry trees... it seems awfully hard to undo their efforts with the limits on poisoning in place right now. I know there were other like me who were trying to increase the diversity of trees in Groddle and we just gave it up... it's too hard right now to try to do good in that regard. (Score one for the cherry tree team.)
4. The spawn spots for planks were added long ago, even before tree poison as I recall, because there was no way to get planks aside from waiting for the trees to get to old age. I think it's time for the auto-planks to disappear.

Which is a bit of a mix of gripes and notions about fixing them, and not entirely coherent. Ah well.

Some thoughts:
1. Buh-bye, wood trees.
2. Let other trees be pruned to get planks. But, you know, only if they're big enough to tolerate that.
3. (Get rid of the plank spawn points.)
4. Get rid of tree killing, which is making people sad on principle. Instead, once you get your arborist skill, you should be able to move a tree, which would work something like pig capturing. You could dig it up and have it in your inventory like a hog-tied piggy.

Something should happen with that tree in your inventory, of course, but I'm not sure what. Demanding replanting, the way piggies must be released within a certain period of time seems the wrong idea in this case in that pigs can be released "anywhere" and plots are such a limited resource. One possibility is that it randomly changes to another type of tree at random intervals. So you could dig up a cherry tree and the next time you look in your inventory, it turns out to be a gas plant. But if you don't get it in the ground fast enough, it's now a bean tree. It could also morph into something else, good or bad, I don't know. Maybe there's a chance or a skill that would turn it back into a bean for easier stacking/transportation. Whatever. It's still alive and no one is sad.

(My teal deer contribution for the day.)

Posted 19 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • bandaids is right.

    I think some people are of the philosophy that glitch should be a free for all regulated by the developers .. but this sort of pile of band-aids which clearly don't resolve the issue is the result of that.

    plus you then get the poisonous impression, rightly or wrongly, that the devs are being unfair or taking sides.

    so how about considering the effects of our actions on other people and a little bit more more of a "golden rule" philosophy than a "fuck you I've got mine" philosophy?

    as for the feature suggestions in the OP they sound like an improvement, but inevitably there are complications like what if there are no empty spots left to transplant the trees into?

    bottom line is that this is a shared world and in a shared world there is either compromise or war - your pick.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Clare thank you for your very considered post (teal deer);  I really like your idea of the arborist skill permitting something along the lines you've said.  Going on from that, perhaps once the arborist skill is attained, that could unlock another powder to change the tree type, but again with a limit maybe.  Just adding to the mix;)
    Posted 19 months ago by ♥joby♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree on the band aid department but disagree on everything else.

    So far, the most interesting aspect of the game for me is the fact that it allows the forces of creation and destruction to coexist. Ideally, a balance should be reached in time and through compromise, just like in the real world, and it would even foster a glitch "culture" and ethic code. I am confident it will happen.

    In the mean time there is conflict around it, sure, but it is also the most appealing part of the game! Just look at how many replies the posts on the subject get. Wasn't the Briar & Co. devastation fun in a way? It even spawned new levels of spontaneous interaction between players with the Protection League, etc.

    Getting rid of poison would make things easier, but also more dull.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The game wasn't at all dull when poison wasn't around... at least there weren't any of these groups/sides... in many ways, it was a happier place... :/ (+1 clare)
    Posted 19 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Shared worlds are not limited to compromise or war, any more than they are limited to a simple economic model. 

    Compromises are generally worked out among people who are willing to communicate with each other.  With thousands of players who never show up in the forums, any agreement reached here is meaningless.  Nor are those thousands of players likely to join a war.  Any choosing of sides is also likely to be ignored by non-combatants

    This world is big enough that most players aren't going to be caught up in the "how it should be done"  controversy.  That debate will be carried out between the groups that actually care.

    I'm sure Tiny Speck has a vision of the kind of community they want to foster here.  I know they have plans to hire a Community Manager to help create that community.  For now, these squabbles are a way to take the measure of community feeling, but they certainly aren't going to be  the final definition of how the game must be played. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I gotta ask... has anyone ever seen a fully grown wood tree? I would really like to witness this Feat of Awesome if anyone knows where to find it.

    The concept of wood trees kind of creeps me out. Yes I recognize loads of forests are grown and harvested specifically for their wood... but they have a beautiful tapestry of names. Pine (in at least 12 varieties), Mahogany, Maple, Oak, Cedar.... seems like calling it a Wood Tree is no different than calling the pigs Meat. Calling the pigs Meat actually makes more sense since pigs are the only place to obtain meat, but there's plenty of way to obtain planks. I think they're silly, confusing, and another symptom of *something is broken* - neither the solution nor the cause. 

    That said, I actually like their mechanics. It's a nice change to the trees always being 100% healthy. I actually ran a quiet little test of my own with them. I went around an poisoned a few trees, then replanted them with wood. Two RL hours later I came back, two of the patches were still bare and one had been replanted with cherry.

    Not sure what exactly that means, but it may be a way for people who want to plant something to feel comfortable doing so without fearing it will be poisoned to death. It's not a terrible inconvenience to whack the stump so the dirt can be harvested. If those mechanics were applied to all trees, I *think* we'd have a workable solution for everyone. It would take several people loving and powdering the tree to bring it to maturity, and young trees could be easily removed.

    As for the *something is broken*... it's the life cycle design of the trees themselves. I still think the trees themselves need a tweak to include a natural death, and a faster decay rate. It's obvious the trees get more love than the original design thought they would.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wish the wood trees were prettier and maybe looked like a pine tree.
    Posted 19 months ago by Gruff McGruff Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I planted a wood tree at home and it is now two sections tall with 4 plank like branches. For the first couple of days I tended it like any other tree. Water, pet, harvest but it never got bigger than 1 section tall with one branch, like I've only ever seen in the wild. I had to stop harvesting it but kept watering and petting it for it to get to the size it is now. Wood trees in the world would never get this big because they would constantly get harvested. I'll post a pic next time we get in the game. I hope the tree can get even bigger.
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 clare. I do hope they take note of your suggestions. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Piece of Serenity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually now that I think about it.. killing trees should be made EASIER and not more difficult. That way there would be more patches to:

    a) harvest earth and loam
    b) complete the seedlings quest
    c) replant whatever you want whenever you please.
    d) the tree cycle would happen much faster which means more diversity and renovation.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps removing the poison and just give one more option as in:

    a) Harvest
    b) Pet
    c) water
    d) Lumber

    To lumber should take as much energy & time as grinding something without the proper skill. Note that lumber has no negative connotation and that way people wont complain as much.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to Yaya’s idea.  And it could be a new skillset: Lumbering.  And the higher you learn, the less energy and the more XP.  And chance for bonuses.  And you should lumber a level 10 tree 10 times to fell it, each time making it a little smaller...
    Posted 19 months ago by Oo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Another +1 to Yaya's idea.
    Lumbering sounds great!

    Add +1 to Oo's idea.
    Successively smaller trees by lumbering.
    Posted 19 months ago by Ruby Specklebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for chipping in, folks!

    And hah, if we have lumbering, then we should have logrolling competitions, too.
    Posted 19 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Something like that was proposed awhile back, but the devs didn't pick it up.  Maybe they will this time.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The concept of wood trees kind of creeps me out.

    I'm fine with its skewiness but I'm also more than fine with clare's suggestions.

    I'll go with Lumbering, and perhaps make high-level trees require multiple simultaneous Lumberings, so it's akin to the peat-harvesting quest, but carried out in regular gameplay.

    The recalibration that's necessary, I think, is to ensure that the time, cost and energy that goes into maintaining areas where trees are a valuable resource (Ix being the canonical example) is properly offset by the time, cost and energy to harvest them, and the attempt to rebalance poisoning with guilt and per-street limits perpetuates a path that looks like it has a dead end.
    Posted 19 months ago by Holgate Subscriber! | Permalink
  • CLARE!  +1111111!
    Posted 19 months ago by Oo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Clare that there are to many band-aids (or not the right kind). I know we need loads of loam & dirt to finish street projects (and for that we need patches with no trees). But, I also would not like to see total devastation of trees on main streets, or where players have come to know - that's where this particulate tree grows.   

    I like the idea of a skill to "lumber" a tree. That makes the most sense to me (good idea, Yaya.). Also, I've heard other players mention a similar kind of skill for the issue of dirt & loam - composting.

    On a side note, I do have one question - How do you kill a wood tree? I have one growing in my backyard that I no longer want in that spot. I bought some poison and it wouldn't allow me to use it. So I tried it on another tree in my yard (poor spice tree), and it worked just fine?!
    Posted 19 months ago by Sadie the Goat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Sadie
    I killed mine by only harvesting and not giving it any love (water/pet).  If you've let it grow really big, it might take a number of days and harvests (not sure how many whacks exist in those as I didn't let mine grow too big before deciding I wanted to get rid of it), but it should be doable.  If it looks like it'll take a long time, you might want to ask a few trusted friends to help harvest it to death for you.
    Posted 19 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ++++1 for more skills and quests, as suggested here! I intend to plant a wood tree in my yard, I want to explore that. @Sadie, it sounds like you just harvest it to death?
    Edit: Ahh, beat me to it Mare, hehe
    Posted 19 months ago by Phoebe Springback Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Thanks for chipping in, folks!" hahahaha clare :D

    I think adding lumber as a command for the trees would be kind of cool, and might not be a bandaid. It allows people to diminish the health of the tree without resorting to poison. It takes time, and avoids the guilt. Course a group of 10 might be able to take out an entire tree that way (and systematically an entire region)... but what great fun! Not sure how you'd limit deforestation with a large group, so maybe you can only 'prune' a tree so much in one day causing it to take at least two game days for a tree to be killed by pruning alone. I really like prune as opposed to lumber, not only is it a verb befitting the Glitch command menu but it's non offensive all around.

    Editing to add: This kind of activity would be fun for a group, but I still see a constructive use for poison within the game.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am not thinking of Fargo.  /baldfacedlie
    Posted 19 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Marebito & Pheobe - Thank you for the info :D
    Posted 19 months ago by Sadie the Goat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to clare and yaya. I like the idea of the arborist skill and lumber option.
    Posted 19 months ago by gia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Another vote for the Arborist skill...  with a preference to call it Pruning.  (Never mind the fact that the devs could have silly fun with prunes or pruning.... )
    Posted 19 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Alternately, as an option to discuss (probably over in "Ideas") to digging out and moving trees, perhaps one could trim off branches for planks, much like nibbling the piggies for meat. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Hazmat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Hazmat!  Yes - add an option, "prune" for planks.  You get so many per day, and it would work the same as harvest - maybe on only certain trees, like cherries or the much-despised bean trees.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tradescantia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I <3 Pruning!
    I'm a lumberjack and that's ok!
    GREAT ideas.
    Posted 19 months ago by Niknik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I like the idea of pruning. But there should be a cost associated with pruning, again, to prevent clearcutting.  But it would be much more elegant than the current "poison, antidote" and "wood tree" bandaids.
    Posted 19 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Poison and antidote were actually introduced at exactly the same time, but I suspect that antidote wasn't used much until people started poisoning full-grown trees en masse.

    I don't think most of us have gotten a chance to play with wood trees because they're so new and so easily removed.  I suspect that a full-grown tree will produce a much larger harvest than a sapling, so it would be to our collective benefit to let some of them grow and see what happens.  I was happy to see a taller one during the last test, but it had been removed by the time I returned... and since it was near a project, I wasn't too upset.
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • YES.
    Pruning to eventually clear a patch and get lumber at the same time is an EXCELLENT solution.
    Posted 19 months ago by Murri Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 with pruning and what Glum said;)
    Posted 19 months ago by ♥joby♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, arborist/pruning is a good idea as a higher level botany class skill. It should give planks as well as some of the harvestable for that tree, depending on how much was left to be harvested.
    Posted 19 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I suspect Glitch is not meant to be just a game, but a model of our RL world. Just think about it. All is well till a way of destroying nature comes along, and we're still trying to solve this issue. Just like RL.
    Posted 19 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is there an official cherry tree team?? I plant them because they're pretty. Didn't think about diversity as I'm not a cook. Sorry....
    Posted 19 months ago by EgIantine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry OT I know but answering Eglantine; it takes 20 beans for one awesome stew and 30 for one Chilli  (spices also required).  These 2 dishes are ones that give the highest energy boost, so you struggle to make batches if there are not enough beans (or spice trees) around!  That can also impact on the projects if people are looking to buy them at auction to keep them going, which some do.:) But yes the Cherry trees are pretty LOL:)
    Posted 19 months ago by ♥joby♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I suspect Glitch is not meant to be just a game, but a model of our RL world. Just think about it. All is well till a way of destroying nature comes along, and we're still trying to solve this issue. Just like RL."

    Gads, I hope not, although the great flaming tree controversy of year 15 has been one of the more vital things to come along so far.  If that observation is accurate, don't expect a solution anytime soon.  
    We should remember these turbulent times with a tree-centered holiday.  Several players are already dressing as trees...maybe we can fashion a poisoner or lumberer look and then do some kind of mock battle in Groddle Forest Junction.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am currently sporting bean-tree hair.  Blame Bob Apple.
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to yaya and clare. Lumber and arborist would be neat skillsets to add.
    Posted 19 months ago by Peppercorn Subscriber! | Permalink