Topic

the coconut bra, the net top, the corset, next stop garters?

really? really? i hate it. is this necessary to game play? can't my little glitch person be non sexual and innocent.  maybe i'm being too sensitive but i really haven't enjoyed all the other online games and the sexual emphasis for females. there are so many other choices. :(

Posted 20 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • You don't have to wear it
    Posted 20 months ago by HarleyQuin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can kind of see where you're coming from, with the known history of female characters being sexualised in the fantasy genre (no one's going to convince me fighting dragons is easier in a chainmail bikini. ) but I'm not sure whether it's an issue here or not. Glitch avatar sexuality is in no way explicit, it's even non-existent. There's nothing underneath that bra, or that net top, or that censor bar.

    Although it's an interesting question to raise and probably worth discussing further. I just looked through the wardrobe to see what the balance was between garments that suggested a female body and garments that suggested a male body (purposely not including the customisable facial traits or the hairstyles) The problem lies in our physiology, I think, as in real life, in general, breasts are a more visible part of the human body than penises. And I mean covered breasts and penises. 

    A Glitch avatar has neither. So, when we start putting clothes on them, here's an issue which crosses over from the real world- when the gender is in doubt, clothes which do not allow for a defined bust generally contribute towards the individual being perceived as male. And people will always look to define a gender, it's often the very first thing we do, because it can be very hard to interact with another person when you are not sure what sex they are (the androgynous among us know this all too well). 

    Your complaint might be valid, I don't know, but I do know that I can't really see a good alternative to what we have right now. If you eliminate the busty wardrobe elements, and the censor bars (both male and female implicant), then the other clothes also fall into question, and the ground is not equal here. In an ideal, nonexistent world, all clothes are unisex, but we all know that when you see a skirt you think 'woman'. But now I have to go back to what I said earlier: 
    "when the gender is in doubt, clothes which do not allow for a defined bust generally contribute towards the individual being perceived as male."
    And in Glitch, because the avatar bodies are sexless, we don't see any busts. In theory, this is clear: the bodies are sexless. In practice, every time a Glitchizen wears gender ambiguous clothes (in the Glitch wardrobe, this means ALL clothes which are NOT explicitly associated with females), the default perception is that they are male. On the other hand, when they wear the smaller fraction of clothes which are clearly perceived as female, they are all completely flat-chested. And saying that this is preferable than having defined busts makes me feel uncomfortable, as if only one body type was acceptable, and incidentally, this would be a body type more easily associated with men. Is this okay? I'm not sure. Perhaps it works as a counterbalance to all the big-boobed half-naked female characters in other games? I don't know.

    No, I don't have a point yet, I'm just trying to figure out whether coolbettycakes has one or not.

    Looking forward to seeing other opinions on this.  

    small edit: I see no boobs on the corset, which just makes me further question what criteria you are using to define what is sexualising and what is not. It covers the same amount of flesh as the tank top.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Please don't get overexcited about the clothing, everything is just in fun, don't make this more than it is. By the way, I chastised my husband for picking a ponytail for his look because even though the rest of his clothes looked male the hair looked "girly" to me. He still has the ponytail because that's what he wants.
    Posted 20 months ago by Gizmospooky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I generally wear blue jeans, a Hawaiian shirt and sneakers...  the only thing that really identifies me as female is the hair style I chose.  I hadn't seen the new coconut top or the grass skirt until this morning...  I think if we ever got Islands with beach front homes, I would *love* to have this option to wear on the beach.  I *too* do not like the games with big, buxom women...   but I don't find these to be really all that overtly sexual.

    And Cefeida, that was a very thoughtful response.  Gave me quite a bit to think about.
    Posted 20 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can I please get a Chippendale stripper dancer style bow tie? (could be sold as "shirt")
    Also mesh t-shirt.

    (If "sexing up" is an option, it should be be for both, or better yet, ALL sexes.)
    Posted 20 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Love the very adult conversation about this that is happening in a very respectable tone. I totally support all the options we have as being available to whomever (male/female) chooses to obtain them. Basically Cefeida has made excellent points. The game is supposed to be fun and making a big deal out of any small part of it takes some of the fun away.
    Posted 20 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh they are there for female avatars? I thought they were accomodating my costume parties. Was just waiting for my vicars costume...
    Posted 20 months ago by Araldia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm thinking now that Glitch avatars look very child-like, because of their proportions. And kids don't have boobs (although they do have weiners). 

    I still don't have a point, just musing :P
    Posted 20 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • for some reason i seem to recall the coconut bra and hawaiian skirt asked for by a female player a long time ago.

    could be totally off base in terms of my memory on that one though, probably needs to be verified.
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • From another perspective, I have 40D's that are pushing DD.
    I wouldn't mind if my glitch had boobs. I wouldn't even mind if she was as otherwise ahem, "goddess shaped" as I am. (Yeah, I'm chunky.)

    I LIKE being female.
    To be honest, my name causes confusion in games where gender isn't defined, as people think it's a miss/different spelling of Murray. It's not, and being referred to as a dude is a little annoying, but in our mostly patriarchal society, it's standard to say "he" if gender isn't known.

    To be honest, I don't think drama is needed on this score.
    We are (in theory) all adults here.
    And lets face it, nobody likes the girl in the office who screams sexual harassment if someone notices her new haircut and says it looks nice.
    Sure, if I see a chick out in public with WAY too much makeup on and clothes that she's almost actually falling out of, I think that she looks a bit slutty, whether or not she's doing it intentionally...
    But I don't think we need laws that say she can't dress that way.

    And it's not like this game doesn't have plenty of boring, gender neutral clothing.
    If you don't want to be flirted with, wear a black tee-shirt, plain pants and the most plain face you can pick.
    Posted 20 months ago by Murri Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, the terrific thing about the wardrobe is that we don't have to choose to wear any of it.  Get naked, or not.  Men can wear coconut bras and grass skirts too.  I believe I spotted Beefcake wearing a bucket on his head today.  The more options we have, the more likely it is that everyone will find comfortable attire.
    Posted 20 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hi. I so appreciate the respectful tone of the responses and opinions they contain.  Yes everyone, I know I don't have to wear them, just expressing myself.  And you can do so too, your responses are totally acceptable and correct also.  Even if a female was the gender of the person who requested the Hawaiian costume, I don't see that making a difference or determining the correctness of my opinion.  There is no drama here.  This topic has nothing to do with the size of anyone’s  breasts ,  weight  nor does it imply that I don’t like being a female.  (fyi- size c, 126 lbs).  Everyone here deserves to express themselves without being designated as right or wrong.    I also appreciate the awesomeness of cefeida!!!! Thank you for taking the time to voice your intelligent, objective and informative position on this matter. It was a great response and helped me to understand more about how to look at this. It was also a great insight to some of the character behind the scenes here. This is one of the reasons why I love glitch and the vibe of its community. I wanted my experiences at other games and why I don't participate or support them to be known and taken into consideration while we are in beta. :D  I do want options - just with some measure of constraint. I don't want others to be without options either, but that will be determined by tiny speck, not me. Who knows, maybe this forum topic will be taken into consideration in determining how far things of this nature go. As a web developer I have been a member of many online communities over the past 15 years. I have seen many great projects get reduced to the lowest common denominator and become one endless "ahem, ahem, coffee break". So with the best intentions, I expressed my reaction to a new edition of the wardrobe. I do admit I could have been more thoughtful and diplomatic but a) it was 3 am and glitch was open so I was up way past my bedtime. b) I really didn't mean for it to be a complaint or point, I was just expressing my reaction to the shirt. It was concerning me.  c) I was hoping to be reassured that it was not the direction glitch and tiny speck were going.  So thank you for the ability to express myself and participate in this conversation.  I totally support everyone's ability to have a voice concerning the things they experience or want to, in this game.  And I will be more considerate of the community in the way that I communicate, using this forum in the future.  Thanks to all who responded, much food for thought.  Who knows, maybe this is where my boundaries get expanded.   Xoxoxoxoxoxo   Thanks to everyone who hugs and gifts! coolbettycakes
    Posted 20 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know that there was anything wrong with your comment, coolbettycakes, if anything it just needed expanding upon... so don't run away if you have other thoughts. 

    I'm not even sure whether there's a right or wrong here :P This is worth discussing! 

    (and thank you for the compliments, wow, I have awesomeness :D scooooore!)
    Posted 20 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To the original point: coolbettycakes, we totally get your concern and appreciate where you are coming from.

    There are few more things coming and/or under consideration which you might not like either (fishnet stockings along with chest hair 'n' faux-six-pack-abs for the gents). But these are all meant to be tongue in cheek (I for one had a lot of fun with my tuxedo-plus-tutu combo). It is just meant to give more choice and allow more different combinations, not a push to sexualize the avatars (which are designed to be as neutral as possible in many dimensions). 

    We're well aware of the legacy of male designers and art directors coming up with female characters/avatars in game design (from the absurdity of mid-riff exposing armor in combat-based games which exposes the vulnerable belly so it can look sufficiently sexy to the paucity of choice in looks when compared to make options — this is a good overview/article on the topic) and this is something we consciously consider when making decisions. In fact, basically, we just try to be conscious when making decisions! ;)

    So, we welcome your (and everyone's) feedback on the topic and though we might make some stuff that you or someone else finds objectionable, the intention is just to offer enough choice to everyone, not to start a rush to the lowest common denominator.

    Indeed, everything we do is an attempt to stay away from the lowest common denominator: we are fortunate enough to be in a position to be able to choose to do something because we think it is beautiful or perfect or right, not because we think it has mass appeal to some specific demographic or will attract giant audiences. Every day is an experiment and we'll see if it works!
    Posted 20 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Chest hair and fishnet stockings lol sounds fun. I like that our characters don't have boobs and dangling bits. I feel at ease being able to dress my avatar with no real sexual undertone. I see nekidd peeps all the time and just see a non sexual thing. Hmmm, my tastes are simple..Thank God.
    Posted 20 months ago by tweetypie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 million to stoot and the developers for offering choices and being conscious while making decisions. Love you all and love that everything can be discussed and experimented with.
    Posted 20 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the goofiness and humor of some of the outfits! Today I wore a cardboard box---lol. And the first time I saw scoot in a tutu I almost fell outa my chair laughing. I enjoy seeing the various combinations people come up with messing around with eyes, mouths and skin color. Now, Mr. stoot, so long as you're working on chest hair.......can you also offer hats so that our hair shows too?
    Posted 20 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • coconut bras, chest hair in the offing...and no satyr pants?  This will not stand.
    Posted 20 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL Nanookie!!  +1 for satyr pants!!!!
    Posted 20 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I know, right?!
    Posted 20 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Being one of the women who specifically asked for the coconut bra (and I believe the group of us who asked were a bunch of women), I was hoping that a lot of the men in the game would choose to wear them too. Everything in this wonderful little world is in jest and is overstated. That is what I like about it. And I am still wearing my little coconut bra under my black trench coat even though there are no little body parts inside it to cover up.
    Posted 20 months ago by Mistress*of*Fishies Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd wear them as a hat.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The thing about online gaming is that it's been proven time and time again that women are way more likely to spend actual money on an online game than men. Men are just way to stingy. Lol. My husband will think seriously before buying a 99c app from the app store. I won't. 99c is a great deal.

    My point is games in general do cater to women to get their coin. And some do like chain mail bikinis. Lol. I'm not one of them, personally I perfer skeleton suits but not many games cater to that :p

    There are several clothing options I don't get but I just don't wear them. Seriously. An octopus hat. Who wears an octopus on their head.?? It's cute when you jump but the thought of ink leakage puts me right off.
    Posted 20 months ago by HarleyQuin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the coconut bra, it is fun, and I loved that article Stoot. I would never wear one in real life but I would not be blue either.

    If we go the other way, I do not know any guys who would dress like the chippendales either


    Our avatars just make these things extra funny because there is no gender, in fact there was a forum where someone wanted boobs and another person suggested we could stack them on our heads. It is fun and a good laugh, and you guys rocked those tutus
    Posted 20 months ago by Ani Laurel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't believe females in video games should have boobs... especially if you can create them. Then people would start arguing about sizes and we'd be getting all this sexuality thing which gets really irritating and disgruntles me majorly. We've been told in society that breasts are sexually attractive. The so called 'sketchy' clothing in this game are not really 'sketchy' seeing as how there is nothing to show. It's like a guy walking around topless and a girl, how come males can do it and not females? Because we've been told that's not acceptable.

    There's a village in Africa where the scandolous  thing to show is your legs, women are walking around with nothing covering their chest. But if you start to take your wrap off your legs - everyone stares at you because you're stripping right where everyone can see you! Because they don't believe that breasts are naughty to see. They're just a part of your body like your arm or head.

    Anyways, Long story short,Don't bring real life into Glitch. Like having the censor bars are worse then just going around naked because that indicades that there's actually something to cover up! Whereas if your just going around au naturel, you can see that there's nothing to hide.

    I hate that clothing and hair styles has been specifically allocated to a certain gender.
    Posted 20 months ago by sugarj Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As a woman I like the girlie accessories, but I am just as much of a fan of the idea of wearing a lab coat and bow tie. More cool outfits for everyone!

    I agree with sugarj that any avatar should be able to wear any wardrobe/vanity item.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cristy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While I see your point, coolbettycakes, the thing is that first of all, as has been said, the suggestive clothes are *in fun.* There is nothing to hide, and therefore the clothes are acceptable. It's not like the glitches are just barely covering something up - there IS nothing to cover up. Second, re: 'can't my little glitch be non sexual and innocent.' Well - it CAN! There is a large majority of clothes that are perfectly innocent, and there's nothing at all to stop you from wearing them. And there's no pressure from anyone else to wear them, so I honestly don't see the problem there.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the fact that my little glitchy person can change into any style of clothing that I take a liking to.
    And, depending on the mood I'm in, I can make it's attire look extremely corny, have her look like a girl or a boy or even go "nekkid".  I love the fact that, just because I'm female, my little glitch isn't forced into being female as well.
    Choosing and buying clothes irl was never my thing - give me a pair of pants and a baggy sweatshirt and I'm good to go but with my little glitchy person I'm just having way too much fun in the wardrobe dept. :D :D

    The one thing I can almost assuredly say I will never change on her is her little Shirley Temple hairstyle. Just too cute!! ...(unless maybe when we get the hats that allow the hair to show...then, maybe she'll wear those curls with a hat :D :D :D )
    Posted 20 months ago by sgjo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is a wonderful conversation.  We live in a society where clothing tends to define the person and, therefore, we can take one look at someone and instantly, whether we intend to or not, judge them and make assumptions about who they are, what they earn, and where they work or live.  Our little glitchy characters have no gender until we dress them (or not) and put hair and a face on them.  Hubby bought a shirt, a hat, shoes, and a pair of pants, and will probably be wearing the same outfit until the day his little glitch man dies (heaven forbid).  I, on the other hand, have had fun shopping (no surprise there), and I am wearing things that I would never wear in the real world because it's such a fun place to relax and express yourself, to go crazy and be a little insane without offending or being offensive.  The glitchy guys are so cartoon-like that I do not feel uncomfortable at all seeing someone walking around in naught but their blue skin, or with censor bars. 

    I grew up in a city that has the largest outdoor rodeo in the world.  Every year we watch the clowns battling the bulls, and one of the main pieces of clownery (new word) are the barrels.  Well, when I saw the barrel dress I had to have one.  Would I wear one in real life.....wait....thinking.....no, probably not.  But in this game, absolutely.  It makes me smile.  I think that's the point.  Oh, and while I'm on the topic of clowns, clown shoes, a big red nose, and a clown hat would be frightening, so please don't do that.   

    Coolbettycakes I commend you for your comments, and I completely understand your concerns.  Most female game characters have a 12 inch waist and a 48 inch bust, or more, and are so sexually explicit and unrealistic.  Not so here, and I applaud the team for the time and consideration that must have gone into the creation of the characters.  As it stands, the creation really is ours (sorry god).  
    Posted 20 months ago by Lurell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i actually have a minor request for *more* sexiness/cuteness in one feature, and that is the eyes, because at the moment, there is only that one heavy-lidded-made-up-almost-over-the-top set of 'sexy' eyeballs, and there's something almost creepy about it, especially when it is almost invariably paired with the pouty lips, and then once you notice the creepy-glitchy-sexy face, it seems like you start to see them everywhere, and ack! the faux-sexiness! it burns!  :D
    Posted 20 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great discussion....   and BTW, I spent all day in my coconut bra & hula skirt.  Today & next open game I'm in my pink tutu & corset.  There are no ballet slippers YET so I'm without shoes

    This is great fun.  

    Truly this one of the few places I don't feel sexualized in game land or life.

    Thank you for generating this discussion coolbettycakes as I understand the concern. Discussion has been pleasantly adult.  This makes it very comfortable to post any concerns we may have in the future AND speaks volumes for the Glitchen community and developers. 
    Posted 20 months ago by Mystbecky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, it is great fun for me!  I love the wardrobe options and play with them a good bit when the game is closed.  As stated, the Avatars are sexless and I have no problem with silly, sexy outfits.  Today my Avatar is wearing the coconuts - LOL!  The odd thing for me is that I like the sexy outfits and I don't mind nudity but for some strange reason that I do not understand myself, RM's choice of coconuts, wellies and nothing else disturbs me.
    Posted 20 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people.............
    Posted 20 months ago by Naiad Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I, for one, have always thought that Glitch was a game of adult humor, and it only takes completing a few quests to prove that. While some of the quest text is innocent enough, most of it is filled with innuendos which I find to be clever and amusing (although that's not to say that the clean puns aren't clever or amusing because they certainly are). Also, who said that the corset, net top, or coconut bra were strictly for females? There is a difference between one's sexuality (biological characteristics) and gender (behavior and outward appearance which have been pigeon-holed into "male" and "female"), and a man could just as easily outfit his character with the fishnet top and say that he was going drag (Rocky Horror Party, anyone? Now's when I make my request for tight gold boxer shorts. Ooh, and maybe a maid costume!)

    In the end, I think Glitch is trying to do what I wish the rest of the world would do: give everyone equal opportunity to express themselves through clothing regardless of their given sex. Clothing is just clothing, and we as a society decide what is "masculine" and what is "feminine". In terms of American society, at least, we have yet to get away from our Puritan roots. However, sexuality is inescapable because, well... how do you think you got here? We humans are big on perpetuating the species, and we're interestingly one of the few species of animals who do so for both fun and reproduction. That kind of thing carries over into any game, even if subversively, because all games are made by humans for humans.

    Ok, I'll step down from my liberal soapbox for now. If I said anything that offended you, feel free to disagree because everyone's perspectives are unique, and I can't change your opinion (Lawrd, I wouldn't even want to try! :P); only you can do that. Also note, I'm not encouraging the mass production of sexualized clothing; on the contrary, I would much prefer a balance for as many different tastes as possible!
    Posted 20 months ago by Vexia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmmmm, this is a fascinating thread. Feel I have to weigh in here since I'm one of the ones who asked for the coconuts and the one running about in them with nothing else but shoes on (sorry, Brib! :) It just makes me laugh; I think I'll return to the censor bars soon, though, heheheh, as if that's better...).
     
    I thought it might be interesting to hear my real-life story: I spend my life in jeans or shorts and a T-shirt. Almost invariably. Because I like them and they're comfy and because in real life, I'm um, well, not a small person on which sexy clothes look good anyway. Even when I was thinner, the most risque thing I ever wore was an occasional miniskirt (and really not even that mini). You couldn't pay me to wear a coconut bra :) But I guess the fun of Glitch for me with the clothes is...the characters are pretty genderless...and have wildly colored skin anyway, so it just sort of cracks me up to run about with nothing much on. I guess because the ironic contrast between the total innocence of the avatars and sexiness of the clothes tickles my funnybone (as does the entire game). 

    And boy, let me tell you, I am a huge feminist, too...hate the usual videogame avatars and comic book women that clearly sex-starved guys draw with the enormous hooters and tiny waists, hate them. I think what appeals to me in Glitch is that anyone, because of the genderless state of the avatars, can dress any way they choose. There are some avatars who, when I talk to the person, I honestly cannot and do not even try to fathom their gender. Some of the hair is even unisex...for one friend when talking in a group I had to coin a word (brosterhood/sistherhood because I wasn't sure if the person was a brother or a sister:). He chimed in to say he was a guy but I didn't care one way or the other. In fact, I find it interesting that the males in Glitch can really push the gender boundaries more because in real life, I think men take more flak if they don't dress or style their hair in a manly way vs. women who can wear a broader range of clothes and styles. I mean...many women wear pants every day and no one assumes we're gay or straight, but what would most people think if every guy around them wore dresses or skirts to the office one day? So I have been interested by the guys who wear the longer hair and long dress-like capes in the game...and stoot in the tutu and post-it dress...and apparently jdawg has run around as janedawg now and then (I guess, as in real life, one could assume a male wearing girl clothes is gay, but that's a preconceived notion; I personally know some of the guys in the game wearing the "women's" stuff are straight). So I actually think it's freeing to have the innocent avatars and the choice of clothes ranging from joe average to sexy goofiness. It seems like a nice safe place in Glitch to play with societal norms and expectations, as well as your own personal comfort limits. It's the very lack of gender on the avatars that keeps this stuff, for me, from crossing a line into sexist territory. 

    And I love that Glitch gives us a place to discuss this and think about it, kind of outside real-life society. Kudos to you, coolbettycakes, for bringing it up :) And for all of the great comments here. I'm, uh...I'm keeping my coconuts and censor bars though (wink).
    Posted 20 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stri *way up a bit!*
    Yup... I asked for coconut bras!  .. i'm sure others did as well ... i'm female... and i'm wearing well.. you can see i guess, but it changes.  Love all the hard work the Dev's are putting into the quirky wardrobe!  Keep it up!
    Posted 20 months ago by RainyRain Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the civility of this thread even more than the goofy outfits.
    Posted 20 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Brib Annie!!!  The thoughtfulness of many of the posts has been a delight!
    Posted 20 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • phew. i'm glad i remembered correctly!

    anyway, it doesn't matter where the idea came from in terms of its goodness .. i just wanted to establish that the devs didn't come up with the idea out of some business decision or personal predilection toward "sexing up" the game.
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink