Topic

Math and Favor Sanity Check

For the longest time, now, I've been using mining and sparkle ore as my main engine for garnering favor with the giants.  I've done some calculations, and with my newly acquired AK7 skill, I believe I may have been a fool for way too long.  Please check my math, and through that, my sanity.

At Mining 4, it takes me (accounting for an average of 6 ores returned per pull, and 7 energy spent per pull) 291 energy to acquire 250 ore, which returns 200 Favor (unbuffed).

At AK7, it takes me 4 energy to acquire 8 meat from a pig.  Each meat gives me 1 favor.  This means it would take me only 100 energy to get 200 Favor.  Of course, this energy cost drops dramatically when I just pull meat out of the collector in my back yard.  But, to consider an apples-apples relationship, I'm just looking at nibbling on piggies in the wild.

So, in the roughest terms, not considering bonuses garnered from either method of retrieval, nibbling on pigs is about 1/3rd the cost of energy of mining at max skill levels to acquire the same level of favor.

Am I missing something, here?

Posted 14 months ago by Snarkbutt Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • you can only nibble 2x per pig per day, thus you have to travel a lot to get the meat. You can mine the same rock all day without moving.

    The real wins come from the bonuses though - i don't think you get much from piggies but you get gems from mining.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lady SnuggleWumps Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you're working solo, from your calculations, harvesting meat is more effective.

    But I think a lot of people focus on mining because of the bonuses, especially in places like Ajaya Bliss where mining once can occasionally pull in 30+ ore (I'd like to emphasize the "occasionally" there lol). The bonuses are what encourages teamwork.
    Posted 14 months ago by Myuki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I wasn't considering bonus gems in this equation because of the EHSP factor -- in that you get a better bonus out of EHSP with the larger amount of favor you're able to donate in one given shot.  As gems don't stack, and diamonds that give you 200 favor in one shot are exceptionally rare, their impact hasn't really managed to increase my favor donations in a meaningful manner.  In my donations, to date, I typically sprinkle, and then throw 600+ ore down the shrine-hole, and more if I'm trying for an emblem on the first date.

    The other downside of mining is the time to acquire the ore, in that it's certainly rarer than, say, a field with a few pigs wandering around.  If I, instead of working, am mining on a Monday morning, I can typically get a few zones where the rocks are plentiful, but that's a pretty rare thing.  More often than not, I'm teamed with a few individuals that run around and make short work of the rocks with my help, and we all move on to another street.

    While I don't think I'll stop mining soon, these simple calculations were dramatic enough of a difference to give me pause and make me question my activities.  I ran through nearly 10,000 ore over the weekend feeding donations and EHSP production.  I'm wondering if the alternative of running around and nibbling on pigs might not be a preferable method.
    Posted 14 months ago by Snarkbutt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's certainly a viable option and might be a nice way to break up the monotony if you're mining on a daily basis. Spend a day or two running around chasing pigs and still get a decent amount to donate! :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Myuki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, as a short test, I went back to my home, emptied my meat collector, nibbled on my penned up piggies, and then visited all the streets in my residential area only.  Some of these streets were packed to the brim with piggies.

    After running through the 25 streets in my residential block, I netted 1365 meat.  That took me about 20 minutes.  ...Plus, it was sort of hilarious.  

    So, I think I'm going to be a pig-nibbler, from now on.  That was a fantastic haul.
    Posted 14 months ago by Snarkbutt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • also....  there were only about 2 piggies in the wild until recently
    :)
    Posted 14 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How do you effectively pet/nibble when the piggies are all stacked up?  I find it to be quite a PITA.
    Posted 14 months ago by Vicereine Linnæa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mining will net you more experience, and with earthshakers it becomes a free action. Conversely if you take the time to pet each piggy twice you'll net quite a bit of XP as well. Not to mention that since you can eat the meat you collect, you're actually coming out ahead on energy.
    Posted 14 months ago by TRB4 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • After I get to a certain level, my standard donation is meat, for these reasons and also because if you own a big house with a meat collector, you usually have lots of meat lying around anyway.
    Posted 14 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, it's a lot easier to do the favor calculations with meat. :-)
    Posted 14 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Welcome to the best-kept secret in the game.  ;-)  AK is under-appreciated.  Petting and massaging butterflies is great experience, and the animal stuff builds up fast.  Gurly drinks give a LOT of free interactions if you're in an animal-rich area.  Five chicken squeezes also means a decent chance of a music block with chickens.  As if that isn't nice enough, you can cook your haul to add currant value for donations and swap a little more energy for a lot of XP before you toss it into the shrine.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm only at AK6, but I have always been a fan of AK over Mining.  Not just for piggies, though.  I like butterfly milk because it sells for the same price to all vendors, even tool vendors.  So I farm milk for income (easy to unload anywhere you are) and hoard meat for favor.
    Posted 14 months ago by Issek of the Jug Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the reason people choose mining is what was already stated above. You can nibble twice each pig, and then have to find a new street.
    I know that there are huge amounts in some residential streets, but for some reason, lots of people don't count those for anything and refuse to use them, even though they are very convenient.

    And, what exactly do you mean by "gems don't stack"?
    If you have multiples, they do. If you're mining enough to get 600 chunks, you probably have multiples of many. I save my moonstones and diamonds to donate with powder, the rest I generally just throw in plain. But then again, I only have one Bigger bag worth of space that my mining is allowed to take up before I donate it.
    If I came prepared with preemptied bags, I would definitely keep at least the rubies as well.

    (and the rarity of diamonds is over-exaggerated. I frequently get 2 per mining stint, which rarely goes over half an hour. That's not rare, imo)
    Posted 14 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Biohazard: Gems do not stack. Their max stack size is 1 per bag slot. Chunks stack in 50s, but otherwise the gems take up slots by themselves.
    Posted 14 months ago by Myuki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm a wanderer anyway.  AK is really nice for glitchen on the move.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gems don't stack, but you can donate them in multiples for HUGE favor.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, if I mine long enough I end up with 3-4 rubies, 5-6 sapphires, and 8-10 ambers. Donating that stuff produces serious favor. And AFAIK, it's a net gain to turn the ore into powders and donate them.
    Posted 14 months ago by Hagbard Celine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Meat is the number one value in the game IMO.  Get a herd of pigs, feeders and meat collectors and you're free to wander about doing less mundane tasks while pullin in the pork (*snicker*) add a little fecundity powder each day and you're a meat factory.

    Yes, there's gems in mining but the fact is, Mining is just so boring and depending on the street dynamic, sparkly is never a guarantee.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mister Master Mixer Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "And AFAIK, it's a net gain to turn the ore into powders and donate them."

    Actually, no, it's not a net gain.  Your ratio of energy expended vs. Favor gained on powder is about 1/10th that of just donating the sparkle ore.  

    It's the Crushing that gets ya.  It's really expensive (in energy) to crush the ore vs. the value of favor returned.
    Posted 14 months ago by Snarkbutt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have been saying this forever about the crazy popularity of mining--the math just doesn't compute.  Add to this remote herdkeeeping, a dozen pigs at your house, butterflies too, etc etc, and max xp from shrine donations every day can come to you with no grinding for xp/donation materials at all.  And pigs give music blocks, although not as often as chickens, which are darn fun to squeeze on the way from one pig to another.  Plus those actions keep your mood up without ever drinking a single drink, another savings in currants and/or energy.

    However, someone pointed out to me that the question of which kind of resource harvesting you find more enjoyable is a big factor.  Put another way, in-game energy is fairly plentiful, especially at higher levels, and it is not the limiting factor: out of game energy is.  What is fun for you?  For me, mining is crazily monotonous, and I love the variety of seeing different streets, getting the completist badges, harvesting trees (I have maxed out the tree skills, too, so those are VERY fruitful in terms of both their produce and music blocks), jumping for quoins, overhearing hilarious conversations, etc etc.  For others, all that walking around is frustrating, or lagtastic on their computers, or confusing, and mining is social and fun.

    Anyway, I still think if your main concern is max shrine xp per in-game energy cost, mining is one of the worst things you can do, second only to mining and grinding and making into powders.  But truthfully, very few people *actually* have the simple calculation of max xp per energy cost going on in their heads.  There is no use getting a lot of xp if you are playing the game in a way you hate. It is a game, after all--why play if it ain't fun?
    Posted 14 months ago by caromalinia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have all the AK skills (well, almost all the skills in the game, actually) and my current deal is making grilled cheeses and donating them. 94 grilled cheese + EHSP = 1495 favor points. And you can make all the ingredients just from chickens, allspice trees, and butterflies.

    Anyway, if you can make powders, instead of tossing the ore, grind it down. I make a lot of Startling Fecundity and donate that (450 favor each under EHSP.) It uses up the red elements effectively.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mackenzie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nibblers get a 20 meat bonus on pigs fairly often... about the same as getting an Amber (and the meat stacks). And AK7 drops a lot of music blocks too.

    The biggest bonus for AK7 though is that energy and mood are never an issue. You can scarf the meat, and most AK7 interactions grant mood (unlike mining). Also, meat can be converted in to other food for an even better return.

    As for favor, it is easier to donate 400 meat +1 EHSP to get 1200 favor than to waste 1 charge of EHSP on each small stack of gems separately.
    Posted 14 months ago by Rayana Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mining I do to get mats for EHSP and for a currants boost every now and then.  For favor, it's meat and sometimes milk for me.
    Posted 14 months ago by Warrender Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm still starting in the path of harvesting and AK, but it does seem to be very profitable. And I do agree that mining sparkle is a bit over appreciated. Right now I'm making quite a nice amount of currants mining metal, and smelting it. Yes, the energy cost is crazy, but that's what no-no is for. The only reason I mine some sparkle now is to make moly and powders for personal use.
    Posted 14 months ago by Asha Greyjoy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Snarkbutt, you are indeed sane.  I don't know why people seem to think that mining is the way to make money.  I've heard references to a strategy guide at some point that suggested mining, so maybe that was responsible for popularizing the idea.

    At any rate, the numbers don't support mining being better than animal kinship or gardening.  But it's not just about doing energy vs. favour math because there are so many factors that you can't math out:

    How far do you have to run to nibble that next piggy?  How much time to you spend waiting for mining nodes to respawn rather than actually mining them?  How many people are helping you mine?  If people help you mine, does that make mining better because you get more per tick or worse because you have to wait longer for respawns?  Even if normal numbers support Animal Kinship or Gardening, what about Ajaya Bliss?

    If everyone who was "on top" consistently used the same skills to get there, there would be a cause to think that those skills were the most efficient (or at least that they were the most efficient for people who were very concerned about being on top).  But this isn't the case.  If you look at profile pages, you can tell what order people learned skills in (bottom to top).  You can pretty quickly see that people who have earned massive amount of xp and/or donated fantastic sums to shrines did not all do so on the back of mining (though some did).

    Clearly mining is not the only way to get ahead.  The best way to get ahead is to just play the game the way you want to play it.  Strategy guides, analysis and even popular wisdom are all far less important.
    Posted 14 months ago by Humbabella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As someone who might know a thing or two *cough* :)

    Piggies are the way to go. Each super harvest alone is 20 favor, plus 8 favor per pig. A double super harvest is a treat. If you only focused on pigs, and had a good route, you can definitely accumulate a lot of favor this way. Butterflies too, technically. 8 milk = 6-7 favor + 16 milk per super harvest. You'll be rolling in donate-able goods in no time.

    I agree with Sthenno though, it's best to do what you find fun, and favor be along for the ride.
    Posted 14 months ago by Zu Subscriber! | Permalink