Topic

No, I'm sure we can't all get along. My question: Can we be civil?

There are times suggestions, ideas, thoughts in the Forums end up offending other players here. There are times frustration relating to offensive statements escalates. Different cultures, different Countries do not share the exact same experiences, opinions, ideas, language/slang/whatever. Most Glitch players also want no censorship in the game or the Forum. This combination can lead to varying degrees of miscommunication and again, offense--whether intended or unintended--and it will not change. Glitch is not even out of Beta and the Forums have, time and time again, turned into armwrestling matches or roasting sessions whenever someone says something offensive, whether it be blatant disregard for someone's way of life or simply asking when the game will open again.

My question is this: given these differences and the desire for no censorship, do we as a Glitch community have a chance of being civil to each other overall in the Forums or not? I'd like to think we can get a firm grasp on our ability to be civil and give it a try, at least.

Posted 17 months ago by ~Alice~ Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Let's be totally fair: For an internet forum of a wide range of strangers... a game forum... people, even now, have been very well behaved. Occasional blips are to be expected.

    Heck, I only entered late in Alpha and one of the first things I witnessed was the great Tree Poison Word War. But it calmed down quickly enough. Some folks walked away for awhile and they came back.

    This has happened again and again.

    I thin even in the latest, no one said, "[So and so] shouldn't be allowed to post." There is difference between expressing opinion and counter opinion and just name calling. Heated debate is not a bad thing. 

    Yes, word choice is important on all sides. But if presented with words that I feel are based on premise I firmly disagree with, I will express that disagreement. I hope I am able to do it in a way that does not attack the poster but address the flaws in idea/concept/premise.

    There is also the point of frustration of repetition of threads. This is to be expected since the forum is only broken down into 3 categories, 2 of which are tightly defined... which leaves every thing else plopped down here. It becomes increasing hard to track down threads already posted.

    BUT it would be LOVELY if folks at least looked at the first two pages and posted/read in a thread already suited to the topic.

    And now of course we are getting a flurry of threads addressing other threads or how people post in other threads... which seems to add to the clutter.

    Think before you start a thread. Take three breaths before you post in anger. Reread your post to make sure you are actually making your point or if your words will just create negative responses. Make your words as clear and specific as you can.

    And, my pet peeve: Make thread subject headings clear so that they can be scanned quickly and folks get a sense of what they are about.
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Justalice999... I think the brouhaha has blown over already.  Glitcherini forgive easily. We have all moved  on and  with no  regrets...  The game is just too sweet to allow for grudges or  to hold  dislike.   This last episode was the most caustic,  yet          "Upward and onward.. "
    Hoping     the game opens in a few days and   we can  all go to Plexus  and float around and be at peace.
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have a sincere question: how do I respond when someone else isn't being civil? There are two instances in which I am specifically concerned this will (and has) happen(ed): either I'm told something that's innately offensive to a community I'm a part of (let's say I'm white and someone refers to me as a "cracker," or something); or someone takes it even further and attacks me specifically.

    Honestly, how should I respond to that?

    ETA: There was someone in that thread whom I really can't forgive so easily because the primary reason they were there was to attack me, specifically, as they've held a personal grudge with me prior to the thread even existing. Petty of them to do so, and petty for me not to forgive them, I suppose, but I also can't let my guard down around them when they've historically shown that they'll attack me for very little reason.
    Posted 17 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Personally, my opinion is, that in any forum people like to push their boundaries, to see what they can get away with. Just like a child will push his or her parents to see exactly what they can and can't get away with doing.
    The majority of forums, least the majority that I have been on, in the past have all had firm and clear rules and guidelines. People know exactly what they can and can't get away with doing. They either stick to the rules or get banned. Fairly simple.
    I do love the idea of a forum with no boundaries. I do however think that it is a huge adjustment to the majority of users. Suddenly there is freedom. Not everyone will immediately know how to deal with that. I'm hoping that these are just teething problems and that people will all eventually realize the privilege we have with an fairly unrestricted forum here and they won't push so far that rules have to be implemented. 
    I hope that the majority of us have a chance of being civil to each other, but I don't ever realistically expect everyone to be civil at all times. There'll always be some people who either intentionally or unintentionally stir up trouble. I think what we need to do is learn how to deal with that. Not feeding trolls. Not bashing people who type badly. Not taking things so personally that it upsets us and turns in to rage.   Sure it's hard. I'm sometimes dying to post something rude in an offensive thread. The logical part of me says "Don't do it, you'll be just as bad as the instigator", but sometimes I can't help myself.  But I do try to think more and do the right thing. 
     
    I don't want the game spoiled for me due to forum stress. 
    I don't want the internet spoiled for me due to forum stress! 
    This place is my escape from reality. I have enough stressful stuff going on in the real world, so there's no way I'm going to stress myself out in the virtual world. 
    I simply will not allow that to happen. So it's just a learning process in how to deal with things differently for me, as it is for a lot of us.  
    Hopefully we'll get through it and be better people for it. Hopefully we'll learn how to be good to each other. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • These are some of the most civil internet forums I have ever seen.  For being a diverse group of thousands of strangers, people have mostly resisted the lure anonymity has on their ability to play well with others.  I'm not saying we can't do better, just that we're doing relatively well already and to give that recognition.

    @Cerulean - I treat personal attacks the same way I treat bullies.  Tell them once, as calmly and firmly as I can, that the behavior is unwarranted and unwelcome, then ignore it as much as possible.  Obviously this isn't always effective, but it works in the majority of cases.  When they don't get a reaction, they usually stop.
    Posted 17 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Magic Monkey's advice. If they're using bully tactics, use anti-bully tactics.

    If you think it's a case of somebody not knowing that their words are hurtful, then you should tell them that as well, but keep in mind that it's tough to educate from a place of anger. If they're defensive, your words won't sink in. And I know that's not fair. You shouldn't HAVE to be the constant sage education-y ambassador for any group you happen to be a part of. You should be allowed to get angry. Unfortunately, anger + digital discourse rarely = changed opinions.

    Sometimes, though, beauty + digital discourse = changed opinions.

    I think that if we frame our conversations in terms of "how can we get X to stop thinking Y" we've left Glitch and entered... The Internet.

    Not that X shouldn't stop thinking Y, but there is no way to use the internet to enforce the not thinking of Y, or even really to persuade people not to think Y, aside from beauty and hand-holding and moments of stunning clarity brought about through words and deeds.

    I'm not being sarcastic--when I think of minds being changed on the internet, I don't think of a super heated argument breaking down strongly held conventions. If a mind springs open, it's an AHA moment that can't be shaken into anybody. It could be they see a photograph or a human interaction. Sometimes it's a great forum post; a lot of the time it's not.

    Sentiments on the Glitch forums probably won't change minds. I think the ATMOSPHERE of the Glitch community can.
    Posted 17 months ago by Pomegrandy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Cerulean "I have a sincere question: how do I respond when someone else isn't being civil?"

    You respond with your own civility, and your most well thought out, logical, measured kind of response. People who are not communicating in good faith will eventually usually shoot themselves in the foot quite effectively, making you look pretty good in comparison. What they say and do can hurt, and no, you can't win them all, but you can move on knowing that you're taking the higher road.
    Posted 17 months ago by crowdedsky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cerulean: My view is that if someone is uncivil/ out to get you, ignore them. they know what they are doing is wrong, and saying or doing something about it will only provoke them further. maybe tell a dev (not sure about that one), but be confident in who you are and don't worry too much about what others say or do.

    Easier said than done :)

    in regard to the orginal topic, I think we do agree in some areas. We agree that the thread hinted at was a bad idea. in the tree poison war, people sided for or against it, with a few taking the "only when necessary" approach. And we all agree Glitch is awesome :D

    I only recently started paying attention to the forums because I got incredibly bored and was hoping for a hint of when the game would open over the weekend. It seems to me that, for all the heated debates, people were careful with their words, and usually speaking quite eloquently. There will always be some discord when a large group of people get together, as you say, but things could have been much worse. Again, I haven't really been in the forums until this weekend, but the name calling and jabs seemed to be kept to a minimum. I have been in forums where it would have gotten much more immature and gotten shut down very quickly. So yes, I believe we can be civil- we (for the most part) already are.
    Posted 17 months ago by bored no more Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +Pi to @crowdedsky.  

    Also, when you see personal name-calling, group-bashing, or similar behavior, know you are dealing with a species of Crazy and that responding just will not work.  This can be enraging, it can be disappointing, it can be crushing, it can be... oh.  So many things.  But Crazy cannot be argued with, it cannot be reasoned with, and engaging with it only draws out more Crazy which increases the rage, disappointment, etc.

    +Pi to @bored too: Easier said than done :)  Too bloody right it is.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lord Bacon-o - More threads of this? Ghah! I just woke up.

    General:
    As far as this topic is concerned I found an excellent summary of the mental health principle in the Christian Bible (it's near the end of Romans Chapter 11) "Return not evil for evil, but good for evil..." (it goes further about symbolic consequence. @crowdedsky gives a better version).

    and of course: "And if you can't say something nice to someone, say nothing at all."

    I'm not a perfect practitioner of this (few are), but when I do I've never seen failure. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yea, I agree with the several offering advice to Cerulean's question.

    Keep yourself civil in all responses to them- if you can't post civilly to them when you want to post, walk away until you can (if you feel you must post). If they are being so uncivil that you cannot be civil even after giving yourself some space, don't even deign to give them a response. Sometimes the quickest way to shut someone up is to make them realize you don't really give a flying monkey's arse about what they said and that you won't let what they said affect you.

    Another thing to do: assess whether that post is going to matter in a week, two weeks, two years, ten years. Most likely it won't and doesn't deserve your energy which can be put to use achieving progress elsewhere doing things for subjects you care a lot about. Or another way to put that: we don't want to still be grumbling about some random post made in a random forum in 30-50 years, do we? We need to save that energy for telling kids to get off our lawn (or just playing more Glitch/Glitch-like games, hopefully)!

    It's extremely difficult sometimes, especially when you're passionate about something, but tends to make life a bit less complicated when it comes to silly stuff that won't matter in the long run. Be unflappable (a motto I used for my years moderating another game's forum)!

    As to the OP: This is an extremely civil community overall. But as with any, there will always be uncivil moments. Generally they blow over. And if they are so terrible that they won't blow over so easily, I am sure they will be moderated accordingly. I would hope that would be needed very rarely though. And we will see more of it as the game grows, certainly.
    Posted 17 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Prisencolinensinainciusol?
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Freezin' cold 'n dancin' yer shoes off!
    Posted 17 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pick your battles.  I choose not to battle on a forum with 'strangers'. - utterly useless.  My real life battles deserve that attention - not here.

    Personally I ignore what I consider bad behaviour.  There are some who simply want to get a rise out of people.

    I don't respond to hot threads.  They get so long no one reads it all anyway.  I believe that mostly people will will read the OP and perhaps a few responses and then simply want to throw down their opinions.

    I only say to forum people what I would say to a person face-to-face.
    Posted 17 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +10 Aero.
    Posted 17 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Say it to my face stormy.. just say it...
    Tell me you love me.. :'(
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I ADORE you Aero!

    edited to add:  So much so I add you as friend!!!  Please love me back!
    Posted 17 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Somewhere in my memory bank I remember reading or hearing something about how the internet would one day be instrumental in how humans evolve as more communicate and interact with one another via computers, and I have wondered about that since.   How does our brain change now that we live in such a computer dependent world?  How does it affect our perceptions of each other, the world, anything?

    To have a forum such as this one, without any formal “forum guidelines and rules” can be a blessing in disguise, hmmm, I wonder.  Maybe it’s a test!  Granted I realize this is a forum set up by a company, so technically it is their forum and they can choose to do with it what they wish, including setting up guidelines and rules, mods even.  But they haven’t yet.  Why?  Too busy right now fixing bugs and the whatnot?  Probably.  I don’t know and I'm not going to guess why.

    Instead, I’d like to think that maybe this is a test of us.  Yes, yes, a gift from the Giants as well.  A gift, but in the form of a test.  All this glorious freedom here, in this forum.  I find it simply amazing.  Can I take a stand and speak out about something but do it with kindness?  Can I defend my point of view but not become defensive?  Can I remind myself, in the heat of a discussion, that there is another human being there, with feelings and their own thoughts and life experiences.  Have I learned how to use language as yet another expression of love?  Can I govern myself when given the freedom not to?

    Oh my, what if, five years from now, this forum and its inhabitants have “earned” the Freedom Forum Badge?  I wonder how the Giants will celebrate in a galaxy, maybe not so far away. <3
    Posted 17 months ago by oli kins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can I take a stand and speak out about something but do it with kindness?  Can I defend my point of view but not become defensive?  Can I remind myself, in the heat of a discussion, that there is another human being there, with feelings and their own thoughts and life experiences.  Have I learned how to use language as yet another expression of love?  Can I govern myself when given the freedom not to?

    Yes, YES, THIS.  Beautiful, oli kins.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just for the record: In another thread recently @stoot barfield stated general forum guidelines. His statements are official even if they aren't generally published. I'll post the permalink later if you want it. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for the replies, everyone. Good points and points of view stated. I am personally committed to making a supreme effort to be as non-abrasive as possible in the Forums. That's the best I can do, really.

    Fokian, I did see something in the API section but wasn't sure if that also referred to the Forum... wasn't even able to decipher what API meant... I blame lack of sleep maybe?
    Posted 17 months ago by ~Alice~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • API is short for Application Programming Interface -- it's basically some code built-in to a game or website or whatever that lets people write other programs that interact with it.  (For example, it's the basis of how all of the Greasemonkey scripts work.)  Fokian, I'd love to see that link if you have it handy.  I'd look myself, but I've never been able to find anything with the forum search.
    Posted 17 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's the specific quote. It's from a thread I started so I knew where to look.

    Edit: Ok. Fixed. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • erm, Fokian? That's a link to stoot's profile :p

    Edit: fixed :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL. Oops! I must have copied the wrong link in that post. Let me find it again and correct the above link.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cerulean If someone calls you a nasty name, you come find me, we tell them to eff off, and then we give them the big I-G-N-O-R-E, which is like kryptonite to trolls! Got it? ;D
    Posted 17 months ago by Heyoheya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • what If someone calls me a nasty name? 
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @jasbo - thank you kindly.

    @Fokian Fool - thank you for posting a link to the general forum guidelines.  I tried searching for it earlier but couldn't locate it.  Appreciate you taking the time to post it here.
    Posted 17 months ago by oli kins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Aero, Whatevs. Deal with it.

    No, j/k! @All Glitches: NO NASTY NAMES or I will come creepy frog stare at you during the next test. Like right up next to your character. And not say a word.
    Posted 17 months ago by Heyoheya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Heycheya - lol, what does a creepy frog stare look like.
    Posted 17 months ago by oli kins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's a quote I have always enjoyed "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind" __ Dr. Seuss
    Posted 17 months ago by Saba Moon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW.
    Posted 17 months ago by Heyoheya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The creepy frog stare! It's. Really. Not. Pretty! (but neither is @Heycheya. :p)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Alice - I think this is a naughtier crowd (on average) than FS and I think that's how the devs envisioned the game.  There were some nice little old ladies in FS who were just walking around waiting to get offended.  I don't think they would like it here. 

    I realize there is a difference between naughtiness and unkindness - but I'm smelling a higher anarchy component here and I think if people can't take it, they aren't going to have an easy time changing it. 

    Those are my 2 cents, and they are only worth 1.4 cents in the new economy.

    ETA:  BTW - good to see you Alice - I'm the former ArtOfHands - Chomper keeper from FS
    Posted 17 months ago by ArtOfHands RoboGirl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Forkian Fool FROG STARE
    Posted 17 months ago by Heyoheya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Heyohheya - Who's that? :p
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was ABOUT ready for bed and then I read "FROG STARE"  Now I'll be up for hours.
    Posted 17 months ago by ArtOfHands RoboGirl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Thee Robot Creator - Naughty fits in with this game, absolutely. Unkind? Meh.

    Good to see you too, Glitchian formerly known as AOH : ) Oh yes, I do remember Chomperland.
    Posted 17 months ago by ~Alice~ Subscriber! | Permalink