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#### Groping has no place in this game

Dear Glitch staff, Some of the game play, including quests and PC<->NPC interactions resemble, condone, and encourage sexual abuse. In no way is this acceptable. When plants and animals make comments about being squeezed, nibbled, petted, and/or watered, the comments should not be reminiscent of an interaction between a sexual predator and a victim of sexual violence. The comments should not be sexual at all. Quests should not rely on a character hugging, flirting with, kissing, or touching other characters, whether PC or NPC. Some examples of unacceptable content include the following types of dialogue and quests: "Getting handsy" "You make me wet" "More than enough petting" "Kiss 5 players" “Have we been introduced?” “Another squeeze, really?” When game play includes the above content, players are being socialized to accept nonconsensual sexual behavior as normal, and acceptable. When players learn to accept this behavior in the game, they are more likely to accept and attempt to justify the behavior in real life. Please change the dialogue and quests which currently resemble sexual advances to something more appropriate, or take them out completely. Thank you!

Posted 3 months ago by Dirigible Plum | Permalink

### Replies

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- I think there are some really good points being made here about the over sexing of the game - I mean,phrases such as "squeezing one out" and "nibbling the pork" just frankly cheapen this and dont even start me on "spiggotting" (bad boy, dirty boy).
  What we need are some good old fashioned values in the game - like the good old days when we sent children up chimneys to clean them and women couldnt vote.
  I personally think there are too many double entendres in this game and if you want examples "I will give you one!"
  In the words of Father Ted - "Down with this sort of thing" and "Careful Now!"
  Posted 3 months ago by Loupin | Permalink
- I hear Farmville is taking new players...
  Posted 3 months ago by ☣ elf ☣ | Permalink
- "My flanks are crackling under your electric touch" - THIS from my own dear piggy, "Prince William". We should be able to "blush".
  Posted 3 months ago by Patricia | Permalink
- I hear Farmville is taking new players...☣ elf ☣
  +10000
  "Squeeze one out" is offensive? Wow, maybe this thread will weed out the folks who might be happier elsewhere.
  Those are some really interesting examples, Pascale, and if OP had used those their comments would make way more sense. I still feel, though, that there aren't children playing this game and it. is. chickens. we are interacting with. So, to me, it's making a joke about something that if it were a irl interaction would be problematic. I could say I'm not up for rape jokes but Wanda Sykes does some that are empowering. So, I could never say a blanket "no to rape jokes" becasue of this.
  Funny thing about life, it's not black and white. And, I think TS' humour, quirkiness and slight naughtiness has the right balance. It's nice and weird, ty TS. :D
  Posted 3 months ago by Annettee | Permalink
- I'm quite certain Loupin was being sarcastic, considering he filmed the "First Ever UR Porn Movie."
  Posted 3 months ago by Jus​tin | Permalink
- oh!! Well! Whew!!!! :D
  Posted 3 months ago by Annettee | Permalink
- A Glitch walks into a talent agent's office.....
  Posted 3 months ago by ☣ elf ☣ | Permalink
- I'm really, really disappointed by how this thread is going. Personally, I haven't had a problem with the content in the game, but dismissing people's views on objectionable content, PARTICULARLY content that they read as potentially too close to home on issues of sexual harassment and assault, is really not okay.
  I understand the knee-jerk reaction to defend the game, but if there are people who find some of the content problematic, then those concerns should be taken seriously.
  Dismissing these concerns is just not cool, and the whole "if you're offended by this, go find a new game" attitude is something that it seems people are referring to in games with really hostile unfun environments, particularly for marginalized groups (LGBTQ, women, people of color, Jewish people, etc), all the time. I'm not saying that this is the same thing as creating, you know, the rape joke saturated racist nightmare landscape that you'll get in some multiplayer games or MMOs, but it's on the same continuum, and I think a lot of us are playing Glitch because the environment isn't like that. Let's not let our impulse to defend our favorite game get in the way of keeping that game environment safe for people who might have good reasons for being sensitive.
  Posted 3 months ago by Pixel Dirigible | Permalink
- I agree that if the OP were more respectful, the comments that followed would have been out of line (although the point that most of us want this kind of humor to remain in the game still 100% belongs in this topic). But it wasn't. The OP reads to me as a list of demands, not as a polite request. "Groping has no place in this game" and "In no way is this acceptable" are authoritative statements, that should really only be made by a person with the capability to lay down the law, so to speak. This attitude is mostly why I came on so harshly. The OP is offended by something in the game, but I'm offended by the manner in which the OP chose to address the developers of my favorite game. :(
  Posted 100 days ago by Jus​tin | Permalink
- Tone arguments are really not helpful, and getting offended about the way something is stated when the topic at hand is related to such difficult issues as sexual assault and harassment makes it really hard to discuss the merits of what the OP is saying. An actual discussion about whether some interactions are actually something that could be triggers for survivors or whether they perpetuate rape culture could be really useful, and when you're in a discussion like that, you really need to thicken your skin to people who are upset about issues of sexual assault and harassment. You can hurt someone a lot more deeply, and perpetuate much more harmful systems of abuse, by jumping down the throat of someone who is trying to speak out about these issues, than they can by criticizing or attacking a game. Because of this you really need to treat them with sensitivity, even when you think that they're wrong.
  Posted 100 days ago by Pixel Dirigible | Permalink
- Those "difficult issues" are in the mind of the beholder. Constraining the acceptable debate in the way Pixel Dirigible is trying to do is implicitly accepting the characterization of the game that the OP stated.
  Many of us are objecting to that characterization in the first place. Risqué humor is not "rape" and that sort of extreme characterization is, of course, going to lead to strong responses. (Which may be the point if this is just a troll, which I hope it is but fear it's not.)
  Posted 100 days ago by Janitch | Permalink
- The interpretation of these in-game jokes are in the eye of the beholder. (I assume that's what you're saying, and not that whether or not issues of sexual assault and harassment are difficult, since obviously those are big harmful problematic issues, and I doubt anyone would disagree with that.) When the beholder is saying that those jokes are problematic to them, it's not useful to become defensive or to make dismissive comments. Comments like "Sounds like someone is looking forward to women's studies 102 this fall!" are dismissive and offensive, and saying that "Why would you talk about this with strangers? This seems to me a classic case of not knowing boundaries. Someone has "issues" and TS needs to make it safe? No, that's why the counselling profession exists. To help us with irrational thoughts and behaviours." is dismissive of not only what the OP is saying, but of people with triggers and/or PTSD.
  The way that Persephone Pear responded was great; she disagreed while being respectful of the OP, and her point about the mediation by the Emo Bear was actually really interesting, but many of the other responses were dismissive and hostile, sometimes against the OP specifically and sometimes in a way that was dismissive of groups of people who try to use things like trigger warnings to attempt to create safer spaces for survivors of sexual violence or harassment.
  It worries me that people in this game are perpetuating this kind of attitude and it's just sliding by, because people who need safe spaces online have few enough options, and Glitchen are usually pretty good about not being dicks to strangers online; the ambiguity of gender that comes as a result of avatars not having to be explicitly gendered, the avatar's lack of race, and the non-competitive elements of the game all seem to help create a culture here that's much kinder, in general, than you'll get in most MMOs. We have the potential here to create a really good environment where people with triggers can play without worrying and where people like me who really care about these feminist issues can play and either have them not really come up or, when they do, have them discussed in a way that's thoughtful and kind. Taking potshots against women's studies departments or people's "oversensitivity" is not only unproductive, but it makes the game more hostile to people who not only have every right to have fun on the internet as you do but who also might otherwise agree with you.
  Posted 100 days ago by Pixel Dirigible | Permalink
- @Pixel Dirigible - I have to agree with other posters here- double-entendres and their ultimate meanings end up being in the mind of the hearer/reader/whatever; and their reactions, whatever they may be, are their own, and not necessarily an issue that requires retooling an entire game to placate. Nobody here's advocating harassment; far from it, I daresay. I think what most people here are saying is that a little light innuendo is exactly that, and not necessarily a condoning of "harassment" and "groping", particularly considering that we're (a) talking pixellated animals, (b) nobody's "forcing" themselves on an animal, and (c) it's an adult game. For grown-ups. Who generally know better. Nobody here sees a chicken and really expects to be able to squeeze one to a bushel of grain IRL... and if they do, they need real help.
  Also- I'm vehemently against throwing around those terminologies willy-nilly- it cheapens real harassment and inappropriate conduct, and likens traumatic events to what are ultimately pretty meaningless interactions with NPCs in a game. It'd be different if inappropriate things were being done or said to a player, which has happened, as I'm sure a few in here recall. That situation is also part of why I have a hard time understanding why the pretty mild language used by NPCs is such a cause for concern, having seen real hostility and disgusting behavior. That might be my biggest beef with this, something I see as basically either a calculated troll, or a case of possible difficulty separating actions in a game from real-world issues.
  ETA - I've said my piece on this. I don't see this getting resolved here, and I don't see the purpose in continuing to beat what seems like a pretty deceased equine at this point. Either the OP has a real problem or doesn't; and if so, they'll either figure a way to get around it, or they'll be in the breeze. It's up to them, and I don't think anybody's going to convince them otherwise.
  Carry on.
  Posted 100 days ago by Djabriil | Permalink
- "So tiggy, what you are saying is that you find it quite probable that up until invites reopened, there were 6 or 7 thousand people REALLY upset by the sexual innuendo but just playing away and not complaining.
  Saucelah "
  no . what i was saying was that the 19 or so people involve in this discussion, do not constitute the majority of players, and neither do all of our friends put together even if we all chose sides, this is a game with a huge number of players , and there has not been a vote so suggesting that the majority thinks anything is really unfounded.i am in fact saying that if you dont know the number who think something , then you don t actually know the number.
  Posted 100 days ago by tiggy | Permalink
- i would like to tell you my experience of this game as a new player who knew pretty much no one. I was wandering the streets and entered a building , another glitch hugged me no big deal , but he hugged me kissed me repeatedly this went on for maybe two munutes and then he started coming on to me, i left the building he followed , the situation was beginning to feel threatening and i nearly panicked he was chasing me down being huggy , blabbering away , i jumped to another street and blocked him. I say this because , that was my experience , not because i want , something changed , someone elses experience may be different than our own, and there is no reason to ridicule them . what caught my eye on this thread was the name , i wondered if someone rlse had been groped and was freaked by it.
  thats what i m doing here , if you don t like it go find another game to play, this is my game and i m staying.
  Posted 100 days ago by tiggy | Permalink
- @ Iggy, when you blocked that player, I hope you reported the abuse to TS.
  I think Pixel Dirigible makes a valid point. I, too, am uncomfortable with the dismissive and condescending way that people have responded to the OP. Yes, the OP's tone was strident and demanding, but I read it as the product of someone who was distressed and therefore perhaps not as measured in choice of words as could be.
  The "too bad for you" and "go back to your feminism seminar" responses are just not constructive, no matter how you look at it—even if you totally disagree, surely there is a more helpful and considerate way to engage. Would you talk that way to your daughter who had been sexually harassed in the workplace and was upset by something in her favorite game on the internet?
  I hope not.
  Posted 100 days ago by Pascale | Permalink
- As much as I'm probably going to get chewed out by the people who are still in this topic for this, I'd like to reiterate the point made by many people in the past. If someone has an issue with the content in the game, and they know that only a very small fraction of the people in the game have this issue, that ultimately means they are not a part of the game's target audience, and it's nothing less than completely self-entitled to demand that the game's target audience is shifted more toward oneself, especially considering most of the Glitch player base is more than happy with the dialogue as it exists now. I've been here for close to a year (not long compared to some), but I feel as though this is my "home." For someone to come in and demand that TS pulls out elements of the game that give it a unique character disturbs me greatly. (furthermore, who are you to say the OP is more disturbed by the presence of these elements of character than I would be by their removal?) Not to say it's about what I want either; it would be self-entitled of me to think that. The only opinion that really matters here is that of TS.
  Regarding the opinion that I/everyone else in this thread should treat the OP with unfailing politeness regardless of their attitude just because of the touchy subject matter, regardless of what some random web site says, it's human nature to respond in kind based on how the person to whom you are responding presents themselves. If someone is rude to you or to someone you care about, you're not going to sit there, smile, and say "Thank you for your opinion."
  Finally, I'd like to reiterate the point made here that the word "groping" is used completely incorrectly.
  A. Groping is an act of touching. Therefore the dialogue the OP is complaining about is by definition not groping.
  B. Groping is not necessarily nonconsensual. Therefore the association made here between groping and harassment is incorrect.
  C. Groping is an act performed with the intent of receiving sexual gratification. I squeeze chickens with the intent of receiving grain, thank you, not... that.
  Posted 100 days ago by Jus​tin | Permalink
- @ Justin Daigle "Human nature" means a lot of different things to different people. It's also used as an excuse for all sorts of rudeness and nastiness. Let's respond kindly and politely instead... why not? It's one of the benefits of civilization.
  We are still in beta. Sure, some of us have been around a lot longer than others… but it's not our house, no matter how comfortable we may feel in it. The forum is here precisely for this sort of feedback. Beta games have a self-selecting group of players in them: Glitch is going to be opened up to a much wider group of people. It's good to hear from segments of the community and demographics we may not have had before. Responding with "But you are going to ruin MY GAME WHICH I LIKE THE WAY IT IS DAMMIT" is just not constructive.
  As for the term "groping"… well, hello evocative metaphor. Obviously Glitch is, in one sense, "nothing but pixels on the screen." Sure. Sort of in the same way we are all nothing but atoms spawned out of the primordial vacuum. Glitch is saturated with coy sexual innuendo, and to pretend that that doesn't apply to the chickens too is just silly. It does. Apparently it bothers some people.
  For what it's worth, "groping" in the context of sexualized touched is rarely used by anyone I know with a positive connotation (it generally means a crude, unwelcome, pawing). People mean what they mean with words, and one person is no more entitled to be prescriptivist about it than the next. We are all Humpty Dumpty.
  Posted 100 days ago by Pascale | Permalink
- "We have the potential here to create a really good environment where people with triggers can play without worrying"
  Sorry, but no, we don't! Glitch cannot possibly be what you are asking it to be. It is not a "safe space" for anyone. It is a video game for a wide adult audience. Even if the staff decided to remove all of the NPC dialogue in an attempt to avoid any and all triggers, the mere presence of some non-written element of the game could be a trigger for someone.
  This isn't really a question of respecting the OP's personal situation -- I doubt that many of us have ever even seen her before, much less know anything about her other than what she's posted here -- but rather a question of the OP respecting the fact that she's come into a pre-existing MMO. There is no need for her -- or for any other player -- to be here, ever, because it's a game, not, for example, a workplace or a school. She's certainly welcome here, but if she is feeling threatened or upset by elements of the game, then regardless of what those elements are or why they upset her, perhaps this isn't the right place for her. Not every community can be all things to all people, no matter how nice the community may be. "Glitch: A Safe Space" simply doesn't exist.
  Posted 100 days ago by glum pudding | Permalink
- Ah but tiggy, by saying that the 19 here do not constitute a majority, you are insinuating, intentionally or not, that there is some secret large group of people playing this game but are completely offended and upset by the NPC dialogue.
  That's not only improbable, it's barely even plausible. You see, human beings are most motivated to complain about negative experiences and feelings. It is not my opinion that people who are silently using a product are mostly content with it, it's a fact of psychology utilized by marketing and product research groups. So claiming "only 19 people" completely misses the real point -- why is this the first we've heard of it despite having 100k players at one point and having 7k players who've been active for nearly a year, some for nearly two, some who were even around during GNE?
  Oh, because it's a non-issue. The majority clearly do not care, or there would be many threads like this, coming up monthly or even weekly.
  The closest there has ever been is a player who repeatedly tried to insist this "should" be a family game during the first beta, only to be overwhelmingly rejected each time. And his problem seemed to be more with people swearing in chat. And the reaction then was fuck that -- this is not a family game. It's not even "PG-14" as some have claimed -- according to the TOS, children between 14 and 17 must have parental permission to play, making this the equivalent of an R-rated movie.
  The rating system is kind of crappy, but in general, anyone entering an R-rated film should expect adult topics. Adults who enter anyway and find themselves offended should do the adult thing: remove yourself. Would you leave an R-rated film and then call the director and demand he censor it so you can go back in and watch it? That is what is happening with this thread.
  Posted 100 days ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- @Pascale: I would tell my daughter the same thing I used to tell my students. You cannot control, nor do you have the right to attempt to control, everyone and everything in the world to make it fit in with your personal vision of right and wrong. You can only control yourself.
  I would advise my daughter to leave the game. Because that would be the right advice to give. I would not tell her to demand entire communities be changed to cater to her, as I would not be doing her or the world any favors by creating an entitled attitude in the child, despite that a tragic event may have inspired those feelings.
  I know I would handle it that way, and I have witnessed my best friend handle a similar situation with her daughter in exactly that way.
  Posted 100 days ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- +eleventy to Fried Liver Attack, Pixel Dirigible and Pascale.
  While I don't necessarily agree with the OP, I am not sure what has driven the level of hostility (especially in the 'she was asking for it' type responses, ew!) or frequency of dissenting comments from some respondents (one person is responsible for 15% of the comments!!) to this thread, and am rather embarrassed about how they are purporting to represent the community.
  Thanks to the OP for putting forth their viewpoints, I hope others will not be put off from posting by the quality of discourse in this thread, and perhaps soon enough the devs will come along and lock this poor dead horse of a thread.
  Posted 100 days ago by katlazam | Permalink
- See, I don't see what everyone is getting in an uproar over. They stated their opinion of the game. They didn't state it well and it did sound hostile, but very few people I've seen have replied back in a hostile manner. I certainly didn't see my reply previous reply as hostile (though this one may be a bit). Simply stating our own opinions. I dislike the idea that only some people are allowed to express their opinions, or that taking a contrary view to someone else is immediately considered hostile. The OP has the right to state his/her opinions just like anyone else, but we also have the right to say speak our minds.
  I'm sorry if you don't like the phrase "If you don't like it, don't play it", but think of it this way. It's like saying that you don't like naked people in porn, so you demand that people be fully clothed during porn movies so that you won't be offended by naked bodies. Just don't watch it!! Making suggestions for things you'd like to see in the game is all well and good, including this. But to demand, DEMAND... that certain changes are not only necessary, but pretty much try to shove biased morals down everyone's throats is not right.
  The truth being, this is something that is most likely not going to happen, and if TS changed the entire game because a couple people who have the freedom not to play get offended, it would (again) be setting a precedence. I used to see so many companies who'd back down so readily. If one person claimed their logo was offensive, they'd change it. I'm finally starting to see companies taking a stand against people who try to push their own views on everyone else and I'd hate to see them start backing down again.
  In the end, however. It's not up to you, or me, how this game is made. It is not our game. TS will make the game however they want, and while I'm grateful that they do take suggestions from their players, I would despise them to end up making a game they don't enjoy themselves, or have to always question whether their content will offend someone, because it will. Someone will eventually be offended by EVERYTHING. So there is just no point.
  Posted 99 days ago by Kaelyn Renai | Permalink
- I have too much time on my hands, clearly.
  I just reread the entire thing, and I don't see any posts that must be, necessarily and without alternative, interpreted as hostile responses until after others claim there are hostile responses (elf, mentioning farmville, but elf is elf and that's about the equivalent of me talking about peanut butter).
  "This game is not for you" is a legitimate response to feedback about a game when that feedback suggests the player does not like the tone or style of the content.
  I find it incredibly disturbing that anyone anywhere in the world finds "this game must be forced to conform with my views of morality" a more commendable attitude than "if it offends you, choose not to play it"
  Posted 99 days ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- We appreciate the post made and while debate is encouraged, do agree that a few posts here have veered towards being nonconstructive. For that reason, this is probably going to just be circular as it goes forward. With that in mind, let's close this one off.
  We do thank the OP for bringing the topic up, it is important to hear that point of view.
  Posted 99 days ago by kevbob | Permalink

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