Topic

Very Confused About How Skill Times Work

Can a dev please explain this?  I was under the impression the first 20 skills you learned did not make a penalty on skill learning time.  I was also under the impression that the Better Learning Skills do not increase other skill times, since the whole point of them is to reduce skill learning times.  I started learning BL IV before the test closed and when it finished I checked my skill times and they had all increased.  If BL IV is supposed to take time off the skills, why did they all increase?  Can anyone explain?

Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Try this: http://www.glitch-strategy.com/wiki/Skill
    Posted 15 months ago by dr_loplop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (Although it doesn't agree with your observations, it seems.)
    Posted 15 months ago by dr_loplop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dr. Loplop, that didn't tell me much I didn't already know!  I only have 16 skills learned yet when I learned BL IV my edit: longest skill increased from less than a day long to over 4 days long.
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My skill times went down with learning BL IV. So I'm not sure what is wrong with yours. I also have 16 skills learned, plus the 4 BL skills.
    Posted 15 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is weird, Laurali. I learned 28 skills, including BL I and II, and still have Soil Appreciation I to learn at 10m42s.
    (Yes, I went for the fast ones, I know I'll pay later.)
    Posted 15 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm trying to figure out if its a bug or if I just don't understand how skill times work.  
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • hmm... my unprofessional diagnosis is that your skills are broken.
    Posted 15 months ago by dr_loplop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sounds like a bug that needs reporting, cuz a 500% penalty isn't supposed to happen.  BL 1 and 2 didn't increase anything for me.
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think my first question would be are you sure they went up?  From what I saw of your profile (hard to say for sure because I'm on my netbook at the moment), you shouldn't have hit any increase in skill learning times at the moment.  However, some of the skills did have their base learning times increase from pre-reset times to post-reset; most notably BL, Mining, and I *think* Fuel Making and Block Making but could be wrong about those ones.  The obvious way to check if things are "off" / things may have been changed would be to check your current learning time for a learned skill (ex AK1).  If you hover over the skill icon in the periodic table of skills, it'll tell you how long it'll take to learn the skill at the moment (sic now that you have BL4).  You can also check the Encyclopedia for the actual base learning time for that skill (10 mins for AK1).  Since you're below the 20 skill threshold (let alone 32 for BL4) the learning time should be 92% of 10mins.  Otherwise... is it one specific skill in particular you're noticing that's off or is it clear across the board?
    Posted 15 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Laurali, did you look at the skills' times directly before you learned BL IV and then also after you learned BL IV? Each skill learned (no matter if it's the 20th, above, or below) will add to skill learning times, in my experience/observations. If you happened to look at the skill times well before you learned BL IV, and checked again after you learned it, I think you would see a great increase in skill learning times.

    Note: I've learned 17 skills now, including BL IV. I observed the times for skill learning going up as I learned more stuff. I'm not sure what the deal is with 20 skills/learning times, but I am reasonably sure that learning a skill will increase learning times for all other skills, period. 
    For example, EZ Cooking I has increased from half a min or a min to 8 and half now.

    EDIT: NVM the times going up! half a min was before the first skill was learned, then it jumped to 10 min. BL IV brought it down to 8:48 like Tingly said.
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Tingly

    They wouldn't increase anything unless you learned them after you had learned 20 other skills.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Whoa, Laurali... I have BLIV and 15 skills (11 skills plus 4 BLs), and I still have plenty of skills I can learn in minutes or hours. There is definitely something wrong in your set-up, and as soon as you get in-game, bug it right away (and maybe flag down a dev if they're not too busy, haha good luck with that ;-). 
    Posted 15 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've never figured this out either, the timing thing never seems to work quite like I think it will even after reading lots of threads and posts about how it's supposed to work.
    Posted 15 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I said that in reference to a massive increase that laurali got from BL4 (tho I guess from below it was cuz she mixed up mining 3 and 4). She's under 20, btw.
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes I am POSITIVE they went up.  Before the game closed I realized I would not be able to finish Mining III (I had about 3 hours or so left) and I checked my longest skill to start before the game closed.  My longest skill was 1day and it was Better Learning IV, after I finished learning it my Mining III increased to 21 hours.  I did make a mistake though mixing up Mining III and Mining IV
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @WindBorn:  ALL of my skills increase after learning them, I have never understood the 20 skill thing because after every skill I learn the rest increase
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought the 20 skill thing was an additional multiplier beyond the fact that each skill you learn causes all the rest to take longer?
    Posted 15 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, according to the wiki the base learning time for Mining IV is 14hr24m, mine is currently 4d9hr36m.  I haven't reached 20 skills yet so why is it so high?  I only have 16, four of which are Better Learning  
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There isn't a bug.  The skill table shows the time where the time would be had you not started learning Mining 3 yet, but after learning your highest BL skill.  The 3 hour time will appear up in the 'change skills' area when the game opens.  The base time for Mining 4 is around 5 days.

    Or maybe there is a bug since ALL skills went up.
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh yeah, my other question would be are you sure you're comparing to the real base learning times?  I haven't checked the wiki lately, but the last time I peeked in there, the 'base' learning times were all first skill discounted learning times (the times we saw for learning in the skill table / encyclopedia after the reset but before the first test; AK1 at that time was reported as being 1m30s).  Those learning times aren't true 'base' learning times and were ~1/6-1/7 of actual base learning times.  From what I remember, I *think* BL5/M4 should have a base learning time of 5 days.

    ETA:  Yup.  Looks like you were using the first skill discounted times as 'base' rather than what the true base learning times are.  Mining 3 has a base learning time of 24 hours and IIRC with BL3 should have been over 22 hours to learn.  (I learned it under those circumstances when I realised I couldn't learn BL4 in time for closing.  :) )
    Posted 15 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That makes sense, Fleep. 

    @Laurali, what time do you have on EZ Cooking I?
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also see this recent thread with changes to base learning times:  http://beta.glitch.com/forum/general/7526/
    Posted 15 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 8 min 48 seconds.  

    If the 3% is only after 20 skills but before that they still increase, then how much do they increase BEFORE the 20 skills and 3% is added?  And why is that never written anytime the skill times are explained?
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fleep:  according to that Mining III takes 1day.  Mine says it has 21 hours, but before the end of the last test I had less then three hours and now it is saying 21 hours
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • BTW, since the game's down, the time you're seeing for Mining 3 will be the total time it takes for you to learn the skill at the moment (with BL4 discount).  It won't show the actual time for you to finish learning it now that you've started learning it.  :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 8:48 is where it should be. 10:00 minus 12% = 8:48.  Mining 3 was explained earlier. :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oooooh thanks Marebito.  Duh not sure why I didn't think of that.

    So there is *no* increase before the 20 skills?
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You won't have an increase until 30-some skills, cuz you have BL4 done.
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you all!  I was so confused lol.  
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you for the explanation Tingly! I feel that I've been confused without knowing it :P
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Go here: beta.glitch.com/skills/ and click on a skill to see what it's correct base learning time is. I randomly checked one of those skills for myself, and the base learning time matches the time my skills page says it should be at. So as far as I can see through that limited test, it's working fine.

    EDIT: Hmmm, from what I can see upon further inspection, the encyclopedia gives the time it will take you to learn the skill, not what the original base time is (it includes my 12% reduction in skill learning time from BL IV). So, now I don't know how to check this.
    Posted 15 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As long as you're working with the "true" base learning times, there's no increase prior to 20 skills for anyone.  ;)  With BL4, you'll get 32 skills before you start seeing an increase unless you learn BL5 whereupon you'll have 37 skills.  :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some additional questions:  Do the BL skills count towards the 20?  If I have 21 skills and I unlearn 2 of them, reducing my total skills to 19, do the skill learning times go back to what they were before I reached 20?
    Posted 15 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • BL skills increase the number of skills you can learn for free, up to 37 with BL5, not that that answers your question.  The purpose of Unlearn is to remove penalties, so they'll probably have code not to remove penalties when you unlearn your way into penalty-free territory.
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We were told by the devs the last time this issue came up that they made it so BL skills do not count toward the penalty. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Before I learned BL IV, my EZ Cooking I was at like 9 min 39 sec or something (give or take 10 sec). After I learned BL IV, it dropped to 8 min 48 sec, and I have more skills learned than Laurali (20 total including the 4 BL).
    Posted 15 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Maribito: re 32 vs 37 skills: Thanks! I was wondering about that. And thank you for working that out for us. Math was never my strongest suit and my brain began exploding when the times were adjusted as few weeks back.

    I finished BL4 when the test closed. It reduced BL 5 from 4d14h24m to 4d9h,36 with 28 skills. Same time as Mining 4. It's great to know that I can learn 9 more skills without seriously increasing the time to learn BL5 and Mining 4.
    Posted 15 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Splendora
    Do the BL skills count towards the 20?

    Technically, you can say they don't, but it's easier to do the math as if they did.  (If that makes any sense.  ^^; )  So, if you look at no BL, you can learn 20 skills without penalty, and with BL1 you can learn 20 skills + BL1 free (or 21 skills total; BL1 would have to be learned prior to the 20 skill threshold though).  Since the equation to determine learning time once you're into penalties is

    Time to learn = (Base Learning Time * BL reduction) * 1.03 ^ (Total # Skills - Skill Threshold)

    it's easier to take the total number of skills you've learned (8 + however many more skills it says you've learned on your profile page) rather than counting how many non-BL skills you've learned total.  Also, if you use the modified total number of skills (sic without BL skills), you'll need to modify the numbers for the skill threshold since they're all calculated with BL skills included.  :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This all just confused me. I wasn't before I clicked this! So wait, More skills done = more time to learn future skills, but only if you're past twenty skills already? agh!... :(

    (Furiously reading wikis now).
    Posted 15 months ago by Lady Cailia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A better question for Splendora is, "Do Better Learning skills count towards the penalty-free limits of 20 (no BL), 21 (BL1), 24 (BL2), 28 (BL3), 32 (BL4), 37 (BL5)?"  Yes, although 20 doesn't come into play since 20 can't be the limit while you have a BL skill learned.  If I'm being confusing, pretend I just said yes and forget the rest.
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, Tingly, I get it.  This thread provides very helpful information, so thanks to all who've contributed.

    I hope to have a number of different "careers," learning and experimenting with various skills.  So this is good stuff to know.
    Posted 15 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Miss Cailia:  Skill times only increase after the first 20 skills, unless you have Better Learning, because those do NOT count towards the time increase.

    Thank you to eveyrone who helped clear that up :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Has 'what if you learn the BL's as skills #40, 52, 61, 70, and 85?' been covered?
    Posted 15 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, it has not Tingly -- at least not in this thread.  I'm all ears :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink