Topic

Is Glitch just a game, or a simulated, fantastical reflection of Earth? Or is it a brave new world?

It's interesting how Ur is a completely made up, fictional play ground for anyone who wishes to partake in this interesting game; and yet, certain forces from the real world are prevalent in the game.  For example, the forces of supply and demand are clearly visible in the marketplace.  I was wondering if there is a group of people on Glitch that are studying the economic and sociological implications of this "simulated" world.  Should the economy of Ur be capitalist, or socialist, or something completely new? Is there a way of measuring poverty or power? Is a wealthy person on Ur as powerful as a wealthy person on Earth? Or is it more to do with connections to other peeps? I would be interested in your thoughts...

Posted 11 months ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I play the game to not think about such things.
    Posted 11 months ago by Ginnis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch is a potlatch culture, where you gain power by giving away stuff.
    Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmmm, I guess because giving away a lot will give you more Glitch friends and hence more social connections? That makes sense, as no-one in Glitch really needs more than a few thousand currants (after buying a house), above which cash becomes pointless.  Another part of the game involves completing quests and figuring stuff out, which makes social connectivity vital.
    Posted 11 months ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No not using 'stuff' to buy 'social connections'

    Many many Glitches do things like hiding bags, food, drinks, toys, etc where other Glitches will stumble across them.   Others routinely plant seeds in Community Gardens for others to harvest.  None of this gets you 'social connections'

    It's a culture that encourages giving away stuff just for the sake of being generous, not as a way to purchase "friends"
    Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow..there's quite a few questions in there.

    I tend to think of the economy as more of a capitalist structure. Supply and demand are definitely in play (a couple of examples being the rise of teal white triangle key prices once Ajaya Bliss could no longer be used as a TP point and later fall when keys spawned more often and the market was flooded with lower cost keys and the ongoing high demand for herbs for essences and potions)

    While it is true that the majority of the players enjoy sharing resources and giving things away for the fun of sharing things, I don't think it is accurate to say that the game encourages people to give stuff away (although there are a few badges and quests relaing to giving things to others). As soon as new rare items are introduced, the market immediately comes into play (dolls, rare cubimals) And there are more badges available for collecting groups of items (each set of music boxes, full set of cubimals, etc.)

    Part of the "problem" now is that is it too easy to make a ton of currants and not much to spend them on. I think that once the new housing comes into being, people will be focused more on acquiring the house they want, in the place they want, with the stuff they want in it. It's very each to give things to others when you have a glut of cash in your pocket.
    That said, the game ranks players by how many streets they've visited, how much xp they've acquired, how much favor they have obtained with the various giants and how many acheivements/badges they've acquired.
    I'm sure there is more that can be said, but I'll stop here.
    Posted 11 months ago by Green Meanie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would say that any game that has quests where you are required to give things away to complete the quest is a game that encourages people to give stuff away.  
    Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The endgame at this point is one of affluence.  But it's probably just more of a stopping point than an endpoint.

    Also, there are a few quests that unlock other game features, but most quests can be ignored.  I quite happily just let most 'quests' happen or not as they will.
    Posted 11 months ago by Razzal Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's just a game.

    Really.
    Posted 11 months ago by Whym Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes.
    Posted 11 months ago by Tiresias Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Razzalle,

    Any theories about why they would change from a game of affluence to a game of scarcity after all this time?   
    Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If I wanted to think about economics and all that jazz, I wouldn't play a game. I play games to NOT think about stuff like that. For me it's about having fun, not how do I make the most currants. I play as a way to turn off my brain and relax. 
    Posted 11 months ago by Piratice Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mhhm,
    Glitch is a game, where Ur is Earth.
    A wealthy person in Ur could be equal as a wealthy person in Earth (except for the physical and mental appearances). 
    Connections with other people? Might be, but not much for socializing. I'll admit, when generous people give items to me I message them back, thanking them and hoping that we could try and make a conversation with each other for a while. Alas, it wouldn't work, basically a: "you're welcome :D" is all they would answer (or something around those lines, you know? a kind answer). 
    Well, this is just my opinion.
    Posted 11 months ago by MOLAIN Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch is certainly a game, but whether it is "just a game" depends on how you look at it and what questions you're interested in.  Any time humans are free to interact in relatively unconstrained ways, microcosms of the "real world" result.  If you are interested in such things, check out EVE Online.  From one perspective, it's internet spaceships.  From another perspective, its economy is serious enough that they hired a PhD. economist as a member of their permanent staff.  Here's an interview with him conducted by The Escapist:  www.escapistmagazine.com/vi...

    N.B. I don't mean anything by the scare quotes around "real world" other than to draw attention to the fact that the distinction most people who aren't game designers make between game and real world is misleading in this context.
    Posted 11 months ago by Meromorphic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch is Prozac in digital form.
    Thank you! Needed it.
    Posted 11 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you all for your responses - very interesting feedback!

    @Ginnis and @Piratice : When I am relaxed is when I think the most. So for me, thinking = relaxing. But I understand that everyone is different. I meant economics in the academic "scientific"  sense. I am not interested in making currants.

    @Windborn, I think you are right. People do tend to give away things without wanting anything in return. I am always surprised why people don't just steal everything at places where someone has dropped a load of stuff in a "party".  

    I would agree with Green Meanie and Marthis Whisperwing the most.  It's interesting that TS chose an Ayn Rand doll to put into the game. Really, the game is an Ayn Rand type utopia. There is no government, only people with resources. Despite the lack of government, there is no crime, everyone seems to help each other. 
    I should take a look at EVE on-line, as that is exactly what I meant. Despite Glitch being a game, certain "real" world factors manifest themselves.  There is certainly enough material in Glitch for at least a PhD chapter.
    Posted 11 months ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The economy is definitely capitalistic since there is a lot of competition with pricing in the Auctions feature. The marketplace is influenced by everyone on Glitch purchasing/selling items; the buying and selling of properties have a different effect since currency is not transferred from player to player. The creators of the supply, who mass-produce items, will join the wealthy elite while simultaneously influencing the free market. Just as in the real world, there are people who partake in the gifting of goods that are no longer needed ("one mans' trash is another man's treasure"). These philanthropic activities are not mandatory and are performed at free will (non-socialistic) - it's still a "free" marketplace (capitalistic).
    Posted 11 months ago by Deadshot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Despite the lack of government, there is no crime.

    Wrong on both counts

    There are Community Guidelines and the TOS, which are enforced by TS staff.  It may not be democracy, but is certainly laws and enforcement of them.  
    Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here are some ways the Glitch economy is different from the real world economy:

    There is a very large "commons" which is controlled by "the giants." This commons includes resources that are either renewed by the giants or easily renewed by players. Players are constrained in ways that make it impossible for them to destroy the commons through overutilization.  The most they can do is to degrade the commons for relatively short periods of time.

    Players can acquire access control over certain kinds of resources by purchasing a house, but each player is allowed only one house. Since there are no mechanisms through which players can gain ownership or sustained control of any part of the commons, players are limited in their ability to acquire or control the resources on which the economy depends.  As a consequence, there are few, if any, methods by which wealth can be leveraged to confer an ongoing economic advantage.

    There are a fixed set of items which can be produced from other items.  There is no possibility for individual discovery, creation or exploitation of new items.  The only unique items players can produce, as far as I am aware, are notes with unique content and authorship. There is not much in the way of product innovation to impact the economy.

    There also is not much in the way of process innovation to impact the economy.  If a player discovers a way to use game mechanics so as to create a significant advantage for that player, this is considered an exploit and is subject to being nerfed.

    ******************************
    Since there is no state to own or control the means of production, I would not call the Glitch economy socialistic. Since product and process innovations are key drivers of a capitalistic economy, I would not call  the Glitch economy capitalistic. Since the opportunities for individual exceptionalism (economically speaking) are heavily constrained, I doubt that Ayn Rand would find Glitch to resemble her utopian ideal.
    Posted 11 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There is the opportunity to create an unlimited supply of resources.  For example, I can plant a herb seed, then when I harvest the flower that has grown, I can shuck it to produce 2 seeds and then plant them etc etc.  However, as I have recently found out, this inevitably results in a collapse in the prices (deflation) as there is an over supply of herbs.

    Other than that, I completely agree.  It would also be interesting to find out crime stats for Glitch, and relate that to the level of a person to see if there is a link. I think that inexperienced users are more likely to resort to "crime" (i.e. theft) than high level users.  
    Posted 11 months ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There is the opportunity to create an unlimited supply of resources.

    Not quite true, unless you are able to spend eternity in Ur.
    I would actually say that herbs, guano and dolls have been in such demand recently that market forces of supply and demand have been stronger than usual.

    Most auction prices are set as a balance of "below street price, above what tool vendor would pay". Supply of awesome stew seems more or less endless, right now there are some 48 stacks for sale at more or less the usual price.

    But herbs are being sold at inflated prices, and are still more expensive than the tinctures and potions made from them. The limited access to herb plots create this shortage at the moment. Demand my go down in the future, and supply may go up due to new housing.

    TS has stated that they intend to get rid of vendors in the future and make the economy more player-driven. That will create more herb-like situatioons when supply and demand are out of balance at least for a while until the market settles. The "endless" supply of many resources has the benefit of keeping the market from being cornered by a few players intent on e.g. taking advantage of newbies.
    Posted 11 months ago by Vic Fontaine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree, the herb situation is a textbook case of supply and demand. Obviously one would have to spend eternity in Ur in order to create an unlimited supply of resources, but I did not mean it in a very literal sense.  

    It's interesting to see how the price of herbs has inflated, although I now think that for certain herbs (yellow crumb, purple and rubeweed), the price is dropping. Probably due to oversupply in the case of the two former (you get three herbs instead of just one per harvest) and because the Rube is not as generous as before for rubeweed.

    I have always found the housing situation in Glitch disappointing. The price of housing is always fixed, and the game requires a lot more houses of high quality (100K, 200K or even higher).  It will be interesting to see how TS approach this problem.
    Posted 11 months ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/02/mmobility-tiny-speck-explains-glitchs-big-unlaunching/

    Take a gander Anderella. Might have some things you'd like to read about.
    Posted 11 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The game.
    Posted 11 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Volkov: Dammit. I just lost the game.
    Posted 11 months ago by jjbob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks Ms. Throttlebottom, very interesting! Looks like the much needed housing reforms are on their way. If only real governments were this easy to convince!
    Posted 11 months ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • :) It's my favorite article as of late xD I can't wait for some of the new changes that Stoot hinted at :)
    Posted 11 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's just a game that same things go on and on if no new features released.
    Posted 11 months ago by Mrkurasaki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The actual Glitch Blog post about this from last November may be useful reading.
    Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink