Topic

Did they adjust the mechanism for Flaming Humbabas?

It seemed that in the past you could drink a Flaming Humbaba, and grind up to 750 chunks of ore with no energy expenditure.  You could begin grinding even if you did not have enough energy to complete the action provided the Flaming Grinder Buff was on.  And even though the buff expired while you were grinding, the entire action was "free".

Tonight it seems that the buff has been seriously nerfed. Is it now only working during the period of time that the buff is actually running (30 sec)?  If so that makes a big difference in how useful this cocktail is for grinding.

Posted 14 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • So if you don't have enough energy in the first place you will die and go to hell?
    Posted 14 months ago by gamecharacter Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've always viewed the 'endless energy' of a Flaming Humbaba as a bug that I expected to one-day be fixed.  Now we'll need to properly calculate how much to grind after each drink.  Before, it was advantageous to pile huge amounts of rock before grinding.
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I guess I just have to resort to No-No as an alternative then. Haha.
    Posted 14 months ago by gamecharacter Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just noticed the same thing. Burned through 3 flaming humbabas before I figured out what was going on and found a small enough number to work. Not sure how to calculate it now. I definitely ground more than I had enough energy for without the drink.
    Posted 14 months ago by Shootsin Latters Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Awwww.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pming Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why are we keep seeing changes but no mention on @glitchlog? :( Comon dev!For what's wroth I don't mind changes that balance things, but it's annoying to see them pops up all the sudden without notice.
    Posted 14 months ago by scrappy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With refining II, I can do at least 200 chunks on one drink, just barely.  So it was ~5x more useful before, but I think it may still be worth it if you are making it yourself. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ugh.   I was getting 150 ore per humbaba with refining 1, and the buff would run out during the third grind.  Back to No-no for me I suppose.  They're definitely not worth it for 100 ore. *sigh*
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not surprised they changed this but I do think they should announce it so people don't suddenly die unexpectedly. There was no incentive / need to get refining II while you could do this.

    Isn't it still worth it even for 100 ore? I thought with refining I it cost 100 energy to grind 25 chunks which is 400 energy for 100 chunks compared to 150c to buy the drink?
    Posted 14 months ago by geekybird Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with the "wish they'd announce it" sentiment. Also seems like days since we last saw a summary of Glitch changes, too.
    Posted 14 months ago by Sine Nomine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It wasn't working correctly, and people were abusing it, so they fixed the bug. 
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nerfing it was a serious blow to my grinding - although when they nerf'd it, they neglected to fix the other bug: if you drink 1 Flaming Humbaba, you get a bonus for 30 seconds. If you drink 4 Flaming Humbaba's, you *still* only get 30 seconds of grind immunity. 4 drinks should equal 2 minutes - fair is fair.
    Posted 14 months ago by Fluffymuffin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The price for shrine powders is going to go to 2500 (minimum) I'd guess...
    Posted 14 months ago by Fluffymuffin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It was a bug fix rather than a feature release, so they didn't /have/ to announce it...
    Posted 14 months ago by Saro Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As a player, when you change the behavior of something from the way it's always been for me, I want to know about it. Especially since I don't know any good way for a player to have known whether it was a bug or an intended strategy to drink a humbaba and then grind all of one type of rock. I'm just glad I found out about it through chat and forums before I lost a whole lot of energy because of a change in game behavior.
    Posted 14 months ago by Sine Nomine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wish they'd make the buff time just a LITTLE bit longer. It stresses me out to try to click fast enough to get enough ore ground in 30 seconds. Or I could just eat more foods or use no-no powder, I guess.
    Posted 14 months ago by Niqster Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I try rarely to complain..but the humbaba is just way too fast to be practical.  I surely wish the devs might consider increasing the time the humbaba lasts because this is just a big huge disappointment.  The change from my perspective is just way too big from "the buggie humbaba" overlap we had.  Big thumbs down from me for this fix. and I realize it was a fix..but try it.  Why even bother to drink one now.  (Taking a break to return to my usual positive self)

    By the way, the basic grinder is better is matches the humbaba.
    Posted 14 months ago by AlmostSilver Subscriber! | Permalink
  • fwiw, I agree that the nerf of the humbaba drink is a bit too much. At the very least, perhaps the cost  (energy/ingrediants/etc) of making it should also be reduced so it would be worth it to make stacks or to buy them at auction. The average auction price is range is 145-150 each. Before this dragonian nerf, Helga sold them for 152c.
    Posted 14 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • " If you drink 4 Flaming Humbaba's, you *still* only get 30 seconds of grind immunity. 4 drinks should equal 2 minutes - fair is fair."

    ^ This.

    "As a player, when you change the behavior of something from the way it's always been for me, I want to know about it."

    Also this.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mackenzie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I echo about all that was said here. I don't complain much either, but this was not done well even as a fix. I loose precious grinding time having to switch to the grinder and then type in the number of chunks to act on. With the funny way the variable picker takes keystrokes, I can hardly ever get the number that I want. Flaming Humbaba's (and probably other drinks) need to multiply their buff durations by the number drunk. Or be able to drink while grinding. Or...
    Posted 14 months ago by Gigabob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aahh, so that's why it wouldn't grind and I lost the use of a few drinks. Okay a couple drinks isn't much, but still, change without notice is kinda mreh.

    It took me ages of grinding to figure out I could grind 500 ore in a single drink, I used to do the panicpanic click three stacks! route and I hated it just because of the panic. One click and sit back is so much nicer. I mean, you're still limited by how much the grinder can grind, it's the stress involved that sucks. 

    The game should be fun, not stressful. And telling me just don't grind if it's not fun isn't helpful, grinding is used in so many skills - augh, do I have to figure out for barnacles now too? *flops* Do not want.
    Posted 14 months ago by Garney Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In the end, the nature of a buff is that its effects wear off when it runs out. The Flaming Grinder buff was never intended to extend to the entire batch of chunks you started while under its influence. If the buff itself is too short, or you need a better indication of how much rock you can grind within the time limit, those are separate concerns, both of which I'll pass along. For now, it seems to me like you can get about [amount removed due to possible falsehood, maybe it's just me?] chunks in with a Grand ol' Grinder while you're under the buff (with Refining I that is), so it might make sense to drink one Flaming Humbaba at a time and grind directly from your stacked chunks instead of the grinder itself. 

    Or, test it out - play around with how much ore  you can grind in 30 seconds given your refining level and grinder, then use the quantity picker from the grinder to make sure you don't have to add any clicks once the buff is underway. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sad about this. It makes the Flaming Humbaba really not worth it's value.

    If you can only grind 50 chunks with one, then why not spend an extra 15c on an Awesome Stew and have energy left over? Just sad. This wasn't broken.
    Posted 14 months ago by Kasul Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not broken.  After a bit of testing I've gotten up to 200 chunks per new humbaba with Refining I and a Grand ol' Grinder, although it's pretty close timing. I kept bumping up the number of chunks and 200 was reeeeaaaalllly close.  I'll probably grind 175 so I don't die if I mess up.

    It's a little more fiddly, which I dislike.  I was grinding by stacks of 50 before from stacked chunks.  It was pretty easy to start the 3rd stack before the end of the buff and get 150 (I hadn't picked up on the fact I could cheat it and grind more though the grinder.  Duh.) Now I have to set it up so I have exactly what I want to grind in inventory and go from the grinder, picking "grind all" to avoid wasting time on typing.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's a bummer although I do understand. It seems that the buff time wears out a little too quickly though. I'm not that fast!
    Posted 14 months ago by Eye Wonder Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This technically was not a 'nerfing' of the Flaming Humbaba.   Before, it didn't work the way it was documented.  Now it does.  That's a bug fix, not a change in it's documented behavior.  The buff now works exactly the way the mouse-over text says it will work.  Before it didn't.

    I don't like the change either.  But it's now just another case where we need to use no-no powder.  Save your ore blocks until the end of day or when you are planning on logging off until after the next game day will be happening...  Use no-no powder and grind everything at once.
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Noooooooooo :'(
    Posted 14 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Don't see it as a bug fix. I always saw it as it applied to when the action started rather than when it finished but eh whatever. Definitely not as worth it as it was before but still probably worth using due to the innately high energy cost of grinding. Also drinking multiple ones really should increase the buff timer to what it would if you did drink them separately after buff disappeared. Should apply to other buffs as well.
    Another option is the the energy cost is divided into sections of time so if say the grinding took 40 seconds you only lose energy cost of 10 seconds of grinding. Imo that's best solution however i'm 99% sure the game code is not set up to easily add that kind of function,
    Posted 14 months ago by Nirosu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oddly, I am seeing no change in the way my flaming humbabas are working. I was cautious because I saw the bug fix mentioned on the glitchlog (left-hand column on forums main page), but I still expended 0 energy even though the buff vanished midway through the grind.

    Setting aside whether this is good or bad, it sounds like what I'm experiencing is a bug?
    Posted 14 months ago by Vortexae Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I found you could drink one and then grind 750 ore (before they had the 'number picker' I'd have to make sure I never had more than 750 in my inventory when I started the grind).  750 was only the limit because that's about the point at which I'd break my grinder.  It always seemed a bit overpowered.

    I probably wouldn't have nearly the amount of money I have now if I hadn't discovered this long ago.  I didn't realize at the time it was unintentional.

    I do wish for two things though - one is that the timer wouldn't start until I started grinding, and two is that I'd also like to see the effect stack if I drink multiples (or just take the multiple drink option off - why would I down a whole stack of expensive cocktails like that?)
    Posted 14 months ago by agent86 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • They need to fix all the buff drinks and herbs.  Nothing with a buff extends the buff timer if you consume more than one and you end up wasting nice cocktails.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Woo, I take it back. The "bug fix" has now caught up with me: "You crushed 299 Chunks of Sparkly (+359 xp, -147 energy)." So looks like about 250 chunks for free, 49 for pay (if indeed it's 3 energy per chunk as I recall).

    I absolutely agree with whoever said that the flaming grinder buff should have a delayed start -- no fair being penalized for traveling through my inventory, maybe typo'ing the amount to grind and having to start over, etc.
    Posted 14 months ago by Vortexae Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Honestly, the main issue is how much energy grinding costs without the use of Flaming Humbabas.

    It should NEVER cost more to grind something as it was to originally mine it.

    If I can mine 5 ore of something for 7 energy (roughly 1.5 increase), I should be able to grind 50 of that item for 70 energy, not 150 energy!!!

    The skill is overcosted greatly and now the best help item has been "fixed" to a state that makes it not worth anyone's time.

    At least give us a machine that can grind stuff for us, but at a slower pace.
    Posted 14 months ago by Maestro Mateo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What the game developer considers a "bug fix" is, from another point of view, micro-managing their power users and reducing their enjoyment of the game.  I would recommend handling these kind of issues less hamfistedly in the future.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mister Vandermaar Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, this just devalued a bunch of my humbabas. Very sad. Careless almost (on the part of the dev/mechanics teams).  The way FHs worked was also why I invested in a Grand grinder early on.
    Posted 14 months ago by Arksly Subscriber! | Permalink
  • resurrecting thread, I thought for days that it was just me having issues because I didn't see this. it's the first major problem i've had with the game, and i'm certain other people feel the same as there are a lot of miners.

    would like to hear what if anything will be done to balance things. i don't need to grind 750 ores as mentioned up-thread but at the moment my drinks are fairly useless.
    Posted 14 months ago by Foxglove Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 'I do wish for two things though - one is that the timer wouldn't start until I started grinding, and two is that I'd also like to see the effect stack if I drink multiples (or just take the multiple drink option off - why would I down a whole stack of expensive cocktails like that?)' -agent86

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^This.
    Posted 14 months ago by Osprey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The drink - click - crush - how many interface is really slow sometimes and it wastes half the buff. It would be better if the buff started when the grinding started (as others have suggested) or if it lasted until (ay) 200 units of ore had been ground. Making it on a timer that starts immediately is just too annoying.
    Posted 14 months ago by Tanga Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Tanga here. I think if the buff at least started when you start grinding. By the time I have drank, and then chose what I am going to grind,  the buff is 1/4 to 1/2 over... what a waste.
    Posted 14 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ooh this is good to know.  I accidentally died whilst grinding already and wondered what happened.  I rely on the FH's quite frequently but never stopped to calculate how much ore I could actually grind using them.

    And fwiw I too wish that the buff would start only when grinding actually begins, otherwise you do waste a lot of time.  =(
    Posted 14 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 'I do wish for two things though - one is that the timer wouldn't start until I started grinding, and two is that I'd also like to see the effect stack if I drink multiples (or just take the multiple drink option off - why would I down a whole stack of expensive cocktails like that?)' -agent86

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This again! And the fact that by wanting to grind 250 ore and GOD telling me I won't have enough energy after, made me lose 3/4 of my humbaba. What a waste.
    Posted 14 months ago by TQ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Forget Flaming Humbabas. Embrace No-No! Not only do you become a rock crushing machine, you can repair your grinder afterwards as well. So you have to squish a few grapes.

    Of course, remember that your XP goes nowhere fast, but I still prefer No-No to FHs now. I just do my rock crushing at the end of the day.
    Posted 14 months ago by Shootsin Latters Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yes, No-No for the win <3
    Posted 14 months ago by Mandy.23 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How about it defaults to the max amount I *can* grind rather than just throw error messages around and waste my timer.
    Posted 14 months ago by Krytalis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm a level31, Mining IV, and Refining II, and I can only just squeeze in about 150 sparkly before the humbaba buff runs dry. I seem to remember I thought I was getting more in the past.
    I agree a max allowable default would be appropriate and helpful, but not having it does keep you on your toes.
    On the other hand, I also don't think it's fair to not get multiple usage factors for multiple cocktails selected i.e. 3x flaming grinder for 3 humbabas consumed. "Keeps you on your toes" doesn't apply here. Fair is fair- you should be able to select, and USE, more than one of any cocktail at a time if you want to. If you should inadvetently select ALL, then THAT's your fault and "on your toes" then applies. Live and learn.

    BTW: wassup with the No-no usage? Does it actually HAVE a useful purpose other than sending newbs to hell? I'll have to try it. See you in hell!
    Posted 14 months ago by airplay Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ airplay:
    No-no gives you unlimited energy and mood for the first 6 minutes (the "rush") and then the next 6 minutes is the "crash" (12 min total), during which you have a chance to use another packet of no-no or do nothing and die. Every following packet you take will reduce the "rush" and "crash" period in half, so 3 min each for the next (6 min total), and 1 1/2 for the next, and so on until the 16th use.

    After the 16th packet, you can't take anymore and when you come back from hell, you'll have the super-pooped debuff where you can't gain any energy from anything. I believe you can also become super-pooped depending on how much energy you use during the "crash" phase. So it's often recommended to do no-no 15 min before the end of a game day, so you have plenty of time to come back from hell and guarantee a full energy refill with the new day.
    Posted 14 months ago by Myuki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can grind at least 209 ore with Refining II (did this last night). I still have some leeway as well. I keep my grinder next to my drinks, then just select grind from the grinder and then the ore- it doesn't seem to cost too much of the buff.

    I do agree, the buff shouldn't start until you start grinding, though. And it'd be nice if the effect would stack up to four or five.

    All in all, it hasn't affected me much, though I can see a need for some tweaks, but grinding ore is not my character's livelihood. It's started working the way I originally assumed it worked when I first started using it.
    Posted 14 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have refining II and if I'm quick fingered I can do 225 on 1 drink. I usually do about 200 to be safe, but I know I can go up to 225 if I need. I place my drink next to my grinder in my bags and do it fast. I try to optimze so I don't have to enter an amount and can do "all" but of course that doesn't always pan out. I also plan to have some energy so if it runs out I don't die. I don't consider it terrible if I have to pay a little energy, in the end I'd rather use the whole buff than waste it.
    Posted 14 months ago by QueenKellee Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think an issue that most of us have is that it shouldn't be down to 'being fast' or quick fingered to use your buff. It should begin once you start grinding, and not throw up errors that in a lot of cases make you waste the drink altogether. I've lost count of how many drinks I have lost in this way since the change, and judging from this thread I am not in the minority. It shouldn't be necessary to line up drinks and grinder etc to beat this strange clock.  I understand that it was never meant to grind 700+ chunks of ore, but a happy medium can be reached.
    Posted 14 months ago by Foxglove Subscriber! | Permalink