Topic

Auction Tweaks

As a finance major, I love the potential of the in-game auction house. I think it could add a lot of interaction between characters, since many items cannot be purchased at the street vendors. As the game expands, with more characters, skills, and items, the "economy" of the game will only become more important.

My thoughts (in order of priority):

1. I think there must be an in-game interface to list items AND request them. The fact that I must open a new tab to see the auction page is a big turn-off.

2. We should be seeing many more items posted to the auctions. In theory, shouldn't I be able to buy every single item (even the ones that can be purchased from street vendors)? There will always be someone too lazy to walk across the street to buy their eggs and milk.

3. Allow the purchase of individual items on the auction page. Right now, if someone lists 400 cheese, and I only need 1, why do I have to buy all 400?

4. In a typical financial market, you have the "market price." I think it would be a cool idea to easily see the current "market" prices of key items. Also, in-game, the option to list an item for "market price" or "market price - 1 currant" etc. Obviously, you don't want to make this too complicated, but I think you have a lot of options.

5. I've purchased a couple items from the auction page. Some of them came in a mailbox; others came by frog mail. Is there a logic to this?

Overall, I've been surprised by how few items are listed on the auction page. If I need tortillas, why can't I buy them anywhere? Do I really need to learn an entire skill just to make them? The fact that a lot of these items aren't listed is a sign that the auction system isn't easy enough to use yet.

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Posted 18 months ago by Fortibus Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • With walking, you'd be in the exception. People complain about the 2 minute delay between auction purchase and Frog Parcel Delivery.

    The purpose of Glitch is not to camp at your house all day and make/sell stuff. People want the making/selling part to be over and done with as quick as possible so they can move on to other things. If you want to create an Auction Lovers Group and advertise in there every 30 seconds, more power to you. You might even find a few other players prefer that format. There's even your own Forums, and your own Chat where you can advertise to your heart's content... all for free! 

    In that case... your "storefront" is you and your "slots" are whatever you want to carry around. You can walk around, and hand deliver the item to avoid the fees... or pay 20 currants and post it to them (and figure out some method for them getting payment to you -  aka posting payment first). What you want is perfectly do-able, and doesn't require a massive change to accomplish... just a little creativity.

    There *is* a central listing of what everything is worth... The Items List. Click on any object and it'll say what it's worth... As far as what vendor has what, it's really not all that hard to keep track of. Their offerings make perfect sense and you always get the best 'vendor' prices from the one selling the relative stuff (Helga the drinks vendor is cheaper than the convenient Mining vendors in the mines, the hardware vendor sells hardware cheaper than the mining vendors).

    So in one token, you say you're willing to do the work - but you keep wanting an easy-button so you don't have to do the work or pay fees to avoid the work.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok, there is a central listing of vendors:

    you could:
    - Look on the map and see what vendors are close by (as you hover over a vendor icon, that info is revealed).  True, it would be nice to search for a vendor or shrine and have it highlighted. 
    or
    - Install the locations greasemonkey script (see the general forum)
    or
    - Check the Wiki.

    If you're willing to walk, great.  Some players do.  Some players also don't, or the walk is too far if they are in need of an energy boost or olive oil for a project, and so they use the auctions marketplace.

    And if the other game you played has the set-up you describe and it works for that game, cool for that game.  I don't want to play a game where players are pimping their wares, so I'm glad there are no ads here for player stores.  I like that Glitch is not marketplace driven, which it sounds like the other game is.  I know another game, SL, is very market driven and that's why I don't play it.

    The fees also helped the auctions be less of a price gouging place (as did pagination and listing the lowest priced auction).  And this game does need currant sinks - so the fees helped with that, too.  After all, what are you going to do with the 100,000 currants you save on auction fees?  Not much to spend it on, except getting more supplies to create more stuff with.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think you misunderstand the central listing thing. The central lusting on the other game lists what players have to sell at their stores which is at their home. Here, knowing where a type if vendor is tells me nothing, unless youre saying the script breaks down what they have to sell. If u day, well all of this type sell ***, that's not what's needed. I want central listings of player made items... Not the items every vendor has
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Once you start playing more, you'll get the hang of what vendors sell what.  If you need anything related to working with animals, that would be the animal vendor.   If you need seeds or seasoned beans, that would be the gardening vendor.  If you need an awesome pot or saucepan, that would be the kitchen tools vendor.  Part of playing the game is figuring out that info.  You can also always just ask in Live Help.

    Player made items can vary wildly depending upon who is online.  After the reset, there will be few auctions until people get the right skills.  But you can sort the items in auctions by type to see what is available in drinks or food or tools etc.  So, how is that not a central listing?

    Food:
    beta.glitch.com/auctions/ca...

    Drinks:
    beta.glitch.com/auctions/ca...

    Musicblocks:
    beta.glitch.com/auctions/ca...
    well, those aren't player made, but found, but still.  

    How are the auctions not a central listing?
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Because I'm asking for a central listing of player made items for sale that aren't in auctions. You can sell your goods 3 ways.

    Sell to vendor (how am I to find what vendor you sold it to?)

    Sell in person (ads would help...)

    Sell at auction (fees, fees, fees)
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sell to vendor - as described several times above.
    Sell in person - ads like your proposal are generally considered spam here and infringe on the quiet enjoyment of others.
    Sell at auction - you're paying for a service.

    Are you trying to say you wanna see what people are willing to sell? Those are all in auctions. If it isn't there - it's not presently for sale. If you want to see what a given player has the potential to sell - ask them!
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We aren't speaking the same language so I am going to end the conversation here. You clearly don't know what I am suggesting.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • OK, well, I'm -1 for that idea.  If something I need isn't at a vendor, I can't make it, or it's not on auction, I'll simply ask a friend or in global chat for it.  I could care less what everyone in the world has in their inventory.

    And very -1 on ads.  Players ads will make me stop playing, in fact, unless they are just notices on a community bulletin board or a note left on the ground.  Briar did that with his lumber company and with he also created a group for his sales.  In the end, it looks like auctions worked out for Briar, fees regardless, since he just jacked up the prices to compensate.  In fact, anything you make over the top of what a vendor will pay you is gravy, so the fees are irrelevant (because, again, there is no real world free market economy in Glitch - price floors & ceiling, infinite resources including currants and no currant drains beyond fees and upscale housing).

    By the way, if you sell to a vendor in game, it's gone, poof, 'disappears'.  There is no true supply/demand economy in glitch and vendors do not resell what you sell to them, so that point is moot.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • None of you know what I am suggesting or asking, and I am done trying to discuss it.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Actually, what baffles me is people gathering and making things to just want to get rid of it quick because it takes too much space. I don't get it. if I'm going to make stuff and sell it, I am doing it for profits.... If I want to get rid of stuff, I can drop it "
    Why do you think people are not profiting? Because they are selling it for a price that is less than profitable for you to sell it at? The more advanced in skill a player is, the less energy or the more rewarding it is for them to make/acquire an item so they can sell for less and still be profitable.

    Or the item they are selling is a by-product of a process that gets them another item. Some people mine to get gems to donate for favor. The resultant ore may be inconsequential to some of those people so they sell the ore cheaply (or not expensively) as a service to others. You may view the ore itself as a profit making item. Same for gardening. Planting and tending crops will get you DB musicblocks. The crops themselves may not be an important energy source for that player.
    Posted 18 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's just about "why" people are selling. I don't doubt they profit.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mostly... because they can. Many of the sellers simply have nothing left to do in the game, or like seeing stuff on the market. Some people have specific selling goals in mind, but the financial motivator isn't the primary consideration behind every action in Glitch.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Whoa.. not talking about every action in Glitch.. just the actions that involve selling :)
    If you re-worded it to say " the financial motivator isn't the primary consideration behind every action in auctions", you would be both correct and getting closer to the heart of it.  That's the part I find fascinating in how the system works. The rest, I expect... for most of the rest of the game not to be about financial motivation. To see that the market isn't all about financial motivation is... as surprising as hearing news of  Ebay being a non-profit charity.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, I was correct in my first statement.
    ...the financial motivator isn't the primary consideration behind every action in Glitch.

    The tree, rock, gardens... the motivation isn't a financial means to an ends. Every auction and player crafted item starts there. The primary motivator is enjoyment/challenge, not selling. People don't look at the auction and go 'I'm gonna go harvest cherries because I can make money on it', they look in their bag and go "hey! I can sell that and make money".

    PS: Non-profit is not necessarily charitable... the IRS defines non-profit as anyone who does not distribute a profit at the end of the financial year. Junior League Football is non-profit, and it's no more charitable than eBay. Also doesn't mean the business can't turn a profit. The Church makes a tidy profit every year, but they have no intent of distributing it - it's earmarked for 'furthering the organization'.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am not suggesting that Ebay is a non-profit charity, or that all charities are non-profits, or even that non-profits don't make a profit, because they do. A Non-profit charity is just that... a non-profit charity. It is specific. It is both non-profit and a charity. Ebay is not a non-profit or a charity. I was not being literal. I am saying that if I had heard such, I would be just as shocked as hearing what I'm hearing about the auctions here.

    Back to the motivating factors. This isn't an all or nothing deal. I don't have a financial motivator behind every action in my life, but I go to work so that I can make money. I do lots of things for many other reasons, but my main reason for going to work is to make money. I would also have expected that players here would be doing some amount of "work" in order to produce items and sell them for the purpose of making money.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitches don't 'go to work to make money'.
    Glitches go play to perpetuate more play. Money is a by-product.

    (and what I was trying to illustrate is that a company need be neither charitable nor restricted from turning a profit to be labeled as "non-profit charitable")
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Trav, I must admit, your wording on that last about the non-profit charitable has thoroughly confused me. I am not entirely sure what you meant by how you worded that.. so I am going to refrain from agreeing or disagreeing or further explanation.

    Also, can you really speak for all Glitches? I would like a bigger house where I can have more plants and animals. That costs money, so to a degree, I would say I am trying for it.. because there is something that I want and I need money to get it. I am not yet stoned enough to not care, but I will be there soon.. don't ya worry.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can't say I speak for everyone, but I can say it's my view on the esoteric end-goal of Glitch. As game creators, Tiny Speck has elevated play for the sake of play to an art form, by providing an idyllic world where everyone is well provided for eventually and every action becomes a means to further more play. 

    It becomes an art when the driver for 'play' is facilitating 'play' for others, which perpetuates your own 'play'. If your 'play' is accumulating money, great - the benefit is going to further more 'play'. If your 'play' is a lumber company, or cooking, or harvesting, or animal farming, or building, ore mining... the end result will be the exact same as anyone else's 'play'... furthering more 'play' both for you and someone else. If your 'play' doesn't achieve more 'play', then it's not play - it's work... something that is virtually impossible in Glitch. Essentially, the only way to 'work' in Glitch is if work is your play.

    Let me break the NPO down using a previous example... Junior League Football is not charitable. The children pay a fee and provide their own equipment/purchase it (~$300 a child and they are provided with a uniform). Junior League Football turns a profit annually, but the profits will not be distributed to board members or stock holders. Generally the funds are earmarked for advertising, improvements to facilities, equipment, etc... though they are not actually required to immediately spend the funds on it. 

    Junior League Football carries the exact same NPO status at the Roman Catholic Church (which is charitable and profitable), and your local soup kitchen (which is charitable and generally operates at a loss). There is no requirement for the terms non-profit, not-for-profit, and charitable... only a grayish subset class definition 501 'something' (depending on if it is a school, sorority, church, etc)... but 501's all can legally be advertised/labeled as 'charitable', 'non-profit', and 'not-for-profit'  interchangeably.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah ok, back to the NPO. Thanks for explaining what you meant. I suppose? your point being that NPO means almost nothing, and so Ebay being a non-profit charity is meaningless and therefore not a reason for shock??
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No more so than you should be shocked to discover the market in Glitch is used differently than any other game, and that methods of means-to-an-end used successfully elsewhere aren't providing the same results in Glitch.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, for the sake of comedy and general bass ackwardness, .. Um wait im noob, questions first

    Do you get rewards for using the auction like other parts of the game?

    What if there was bidding, but in reverse? The seller could set their low point where it ends, and the bid down could happen after item has been in auction for over an hour. Give a few seconds buy freeze for the bidder after a bid down, so you run the risk of losing the item to another buyer if u make it too cheap.

    Now that would really blow my mind and wonder who was smoking what
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not to be the wet blanket, but bidding sucks. Spending time messing with bidding sucks. Forcing a form of unskilled gambling sucks. Spending time having to babysit an auction takes away from game time, which sucks. It's pretty well the reason auctions in the real world are temporary or have minimal hours, people would rather buy something or sell something and be done with it. Writing an incredibly complicated bidding system you'll need an equally long explanation for, sucks.

    The auction mechanics are not broken, what are you trying to re-write and over-complicate them? As I've said before, if you want to play at auctioneer and that's your thing... you have the tools. The game doesn't need re-wired to accomplish that goal.

    No rewards for using the auction, though a late Quest teaches you about it. I hope it stays that way. If I wanted to spend my playtime playing a market, I'd be doing it on eTrade and reaping a real world benefit.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, not everyone is like you. Some people enjoy markets. If there's rewards for using the market, you aren't forced to go for them. If I buy 43 things from auction and get a reward, so what? Even if there was bidding as described, no babysitting would be necessary. You could choose to buy as is. I am laughing right now. People want to make complex spreadsheets for tasks that are simple and straightforward everywhere else, but want the market to be bare bones and require no time or thought
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Because placing rewards on the market opens them to abuse in the pursuit of the larger game. In fact, most of your suggestions seem to be designed to create room for abuse in favor of your own means.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The market can be as complex as you want to make it.  There are tools already in place for you to play the game exactly as you have described.  All you need is a group of fellow players who are willing to play it that way with you. 

    Just like there is an in-game bank, an in-game lottery,  and an in-game lumber company, you could create the in-game auction house. 

    Your group could have a list of what's being offered.  It could have a list of what people want.

    Your group could make sure that every single item was available on auction. 

    You could make sure that every single item was available as a single item. 

    Your group might become fabulously wealthy in-game.  You could create spreadsheets to your heart's content, and share them only with people you have invited to join your group. 

    There's no need to re-design the game for everyone else when you already have the tools to play it to your own specifications. 
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think anyone got the sarcasm of my bid it down suggestion, but whatever... I am beginning to expect that. There should be rewards for using the auction like there is for petting pigs though. Of course I expect the crowd of "no", to be against any changes in gameplay. The game is apparently perfect as it is, with just needing upgrades to abs, wardrobe, new areas, etc.. Nobody would dream of perusing an idea just because it's fun or interesting to just make shit up and see where the thought leads
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There is no sarcasm font. Tone does not translate well into text. Clairvoyance is not a learn-able skills. People will take your words at they are written. Again... lacking better entertainment the default is to try irritating others when you don't like the responses.

    No one has said the game is perfect. The game is patently imperfect. What we've said is "the markets have been tried a number of ways, the current system has produced the most positive results yet. Your suggestions are not improvements on the current system."

    I've seen great ideas implemented within minutes. I've seen good fledgling ideas appear after weeks of refinement and debate. I've seen fantastic ideas that will probably never get implemented. Ideas are welcome and encouraged... always have been... but continuing to drive broken over functioning is not going to cause broken to become interesting and therefore be implemented.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some of us find the game fun and interesting already.  Some of us think your ideas do not add to the "fun" or "interestingness" of the game.

    Are you suggesting that we should support those ideas anyway? 

    The Ideas forum is a place where people can discuss the ramifications of an idea.  None of your supporters seem to be interested in joining the discussion.  You need to get those folks active in this forum if you want supportive responses.

    Or else make suggestions that people who are already active see as improving the game.
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
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