Topic

slow re-growing rocks

i think travinara suggested this over in the co-operative mining topic or at least something like it.

basically, instead of having the rocks mined to nothing and then starting a timer for them to magically reappear at full capacity, have the rocks "regrow" gradually, reversing the sequence of rock states when you mine them.

you wouldn't have to fully mine down a rock for it to regrow. after a mining action is completed on the rock, a timer would be reset. after approximately the same amount of time it now takes for a fully mined rock to reappear, the rock would begin to grow back at a relatively rapid rate.

Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Sounds gewd +1
    Posted 18 months ago by RobotGymnast Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the idea...I spent a lot of time last test cleaning up after batches of noobs in the heights mined for a bit and didn't 'finish' the rock.  Keep me from really mining full rocks.  I was wondering of options for this case...I like the slow regrowth idea.  

    I was also thinking if they kept the current system that maybe there is a little something, lower than amber that gets introduced, like turquoise, that is worth maybe only 100 currants, but you get one EVERY time you finish a rock...a mini reward for cleaning up after others or completing the job. Maybe you only get this if you complete the rock, not during the mining process.
    Posted 18 months ago by b3achy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • it would solve the nub cleanup issue .. although you could consider that a challenge not a problem.

    mostly i like it because i've never liked the smash-cut instant reappearance of the rocks out of nowhere with nary a "poof!"
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • When a rock is totally depleted I'd like to see some sign that its "roots" are still there, something like the little bits of barnacle that remain after scraping.  I think it would give the rocks a sense of permanence in line with the story dialogues which suggest they have been watching the world for quite some time.
    Posted 18 months ago by Homsar Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Homsar, like the bits of dirt piles that are left when there's no more dirt to be had? Or something different?
    Posted 18 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • But then you'd never find a rock "fully grown". People would just mine the rock whenever it started growing back again and I think it would lead to less rocks over-all.
    Posted 18 months ago by Bashere Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Bashere, i don't think you fully understood my post.

    "after a mining action is completed on the rock, a timer would be reset. after approximately the same amount of time it now takes for a fully mined rock to reappear, the rock would begin to grow back at a relatively rapid rate."

    unless a miner caught the rock during the regrowth phase, which i describe as "relatively rapid", the rock would get back to full size.


    the rock would also not be minable at all for the same amount of time that current rocks are not minable at all, so it wouldn't make any more sense to stand beside a rock, mining it as it regrows, as it does to stand beside a rock waiting for it to reappear as is currently the case.


    you'd actually see more fully grown rocks than is currently the case because half mined rocks would more quickly get to fully grown status, not needing to be mined down to do so.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Like the idea of regrowing, if possible.

    Also love the idea of rock bits at the base to let you know where rocks are located when they have been cleared. I get to some areas, expecting to see 5 rocks, and maybe only one is there...but I've not a clue for when I come back as to where the other rocks should be right now. And I'm not going to wait around for them to regen just to see. I've tried looking at variations in the ground, etc to see if there is a hint of where they should be, but I don't think I've found a pattern yet...though maybe I've missed it.
    Posted 18 months ago by ~Pink Flamingo~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Beach Bum .. currently the best way to do this is to look at the load screen for the level when you first enter it, as it shows the locations of all the rocks there - unless it is a "tall" level.

    but yeah, i'd love to see the current nubs represent "empty" instead of "almost empty". that or a totally new drawing of even less than the nub .. like mini sparkly flecks on the ground for example.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The loves-all-things-narrative side of me loves the rock spot marker idea, although the other side thinks it would just encourage rock camping, which I'm pretty sure is no fun for anybody, but then the first side of me wonders what's up with regenerating rocks in the first place - that side thinks too much!

    Rapid regeneration of rocks is a nice idea, but then again the nubs don't bother me: I enjoy the variety of rock-scenery!
    Posted 18 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I actually had a really good time during one of the mining bugs - the one where rocks were re-spawning with all 50 chunks, but the in-game image wasn't always the 'full' image. I liked the variety in the landscape, and I liked the guessing game (will it be 8, will it be 50?). I *liked* not being able to over-plan, something the current 'final whack' mechanics does to a lesser degree.

    Anyhow, the mindset of my comment was... the nub (both as a 'painful' argument and as a 'productivity' argument) could be eliminated with a seemingly minor change. Note I say seemingly because I am not a coder or developer. Glitch is breaking new ground in the casual game coding world, and most of what they are doing is complicated far beyond my coding comprehension skills. 

    I think the rock regenerating mechanics work as follows, where X = the number of chunks in a rock:
    When X = 0, wait 600 seconds, make X = 50

    I'd like to see:
    When X is less than 50, wait 600 seconds, make X = 50 (keep reading because that's not the final iteration)

    Setting aside all other mining related topics... I'd like to respond to the 'camping' concerns.
    If someone wants to spend the whole normal 10 minute regeneration cycle in one spot, more power to them. I don't see it as something to get irritated over, because it just doesn't "make sense" in the view of accelerating progress or 'grinding', 'claiming' a specific resource / reward, or abusing mechanics which are often the primary purposes of 'camping'.  
    1 - They're standing in one spot to get 50 rocks, and it takes them 10 minutes to do it. 
    2 - If they are standing over a 'nub' camping, their rock yield after the 10 minute wait is less than 50... meaning it's probably the only way to mine that is less efficient than camping.
    3 - There is no way to 'claim' a rock, or even multiple ones. When the rock regenerates, it's fair game to all.
    4 - If someone wants to sit still and mine a rock rather than moving around and mining multiple ones, they are not hurting anyone and it leaves more rocks for the mobile people.

    I really think the impact of mid-stage regeneration of rocks would be a positive one. When I acknowledge the rocks have roots (as described in the stories they tell us), my thinking shifts from rocks re-spawning to rocks regrowing.

    From a game narrative perspective, if the rocks have roots, regenerating mid-stage makes more sense. I have a number of RL (container) plants that grow to a certain stage and then stop until they are pruned. If I take a small amount off the plant, it grows a small amount... if I take a large amount off the plant, it grows a large amount - because the plant has been limited by the soil conditions within the container, and the roots can only grow to a certain size / support a certain size plant.

    From a productivity perspective, mid-stage regeneration seems to work to everyone's benefit. I can't see where starting the cycle when the rock is first mined rather than after it is completely gone could detract from game play. If the regeneration cycle is 600 seconds, and those with Mining 1 take 12 seconds a whack, they'd need 50 whacks at a single rock before it 'grew' in front of their eyes. I think there is a minimum of 4 chunks per whack, so even the slowest miners will still have a "wait". To that end, the youngest miners may see the biggest benefit from things since their 'wait' is reduced. Sure, it will feel like the rocks take longer to regenerate as you gain more mining skills - but the truth is they would be regenerating at the exact same time as someone with a higer skill level.

    Currently.. if Player A has Mining 1, and Player B has Mining 4 and two rocks spawned side-by-side.... Player B's rock would regenerate first because it reached 0 first. If the regenerate cycle started at the first swing, both rocks would reappear at the same time but Player B would have a longer wait.

    The mechanics for staged regrowth without the object being 'empty' is present throughout the Glitch world - bogs and dirt piles refill on their own, tree stages are triggered by petting/watering. Indeed it's starting to seem rocks are to be the only thing to regularly 'pop into the world fully formed' -  i.e. spawn as opposed to grow. So perhaps the new mechanism is something more like...

    If X is less than 26, wait 300 seconds, make X + 25. 

    The end result is:
    A) You still need 10 full minutes for a rock to fully regenerate
    B) It creates a 2-3 staged growth cycle
    C) It populates the world with a variety of rock images, creating a dynamic artistic diversity
    D) It favors neither the highly experienced nor the highly skilled
    E) It has the potential to end several hot-button player debates (which I purposely set aside in discussing here)
    F) Makes more sense in the Glitch Ethos by creating a more complicated challenge through a simple means, and generates a more playful player experience
    G) Lets the mobile mining, co-operative mining, camping mining, and solo mining experiences co-exist without infringing on the others.
    H) Works around a practice perceived by some as Griefing without placing demands on a player to play more than they wish for the sake of Utopia
    I) Removes the capability for players to have a bad experience from someone shouting about leaving a nub... basically removes any need to 'educate' people as to rock mechanics. Read: Creates a more self-explanatory world.
    J) Accomplishes all of the above without opening the mechanic to abuse

    ETA: Visually, I would prefer to see some sort of root stem inside a slight depression in the road where rocks regenerate, as opposed to more rock dust hanging out everywhere. I already think the messy dirt dust detracts from the artwork and the 'coherent' feel of some streets. The root stem could be appropriately colored to indicate what spawns. Think of a dimple in the road with a dot/stem/roots that gets hidden when the rock regrows.

    Only remaining problem.... what in the Giants Imagination would we have left to argue about?
    Ah! The Price of Rice in Jethimadh :D
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Travinara's idea sounds great to me (although I don't understand the maths!)  and I like the sound of what striatic proposes as it would seem to solve the 'nub' problem and be less startling than the sudden reappearance from nowhere that occurs now.

    For this reason, too, I would like to see some sign of where a rock is likely to re-appear;  even if it was not mineable (?) until 'fully-grown'.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cassandria.... in plain english... if a rock has less than half left after 5 minutes, add 25 to the 'rock'. So if a rock had 0, it would have half after 5 minutes, or be full if left alone for 10 minutes... if the rock only had 1 left, it would have 26 after 5 minutes and not grow any further until someone mined it.

    Hmmmmm.... maybe there is room for some tuning in the math, but the math is a fine detail of the overall concept and easily adjusted to create an Ideal Pattern of full-to-nearly-full regrowth.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh I do believe you Travinara, I do. Just don't ask me to do anything with numbers in!
    Posted 18 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While I agree that rocks regrowing back would help rocks that were left mid-sized become full-sized again, I am dubious about whether or not this is a good idea overall.  In more heavily trafficked mining areas, rocks might never get a chance to grow back.  I would anticipate we'd see a bunch of tiny rocks all over the caverns and Ayaya Bliss would go from being a fun group mining experience to pile of tiny rocks.
    Posted 18 months ago by mirth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Good idea
    Posted 18 months ago by Moemoo Subscriber! | Permalink