Topic

epic / cinematic / intense

"walking the line between casual social games and intense, multiplayer, life-consuming games.”
- friskymongoose.com/tiny-spe...

i hesitate to criticize the aesthetics of the game so far, as we're still in alpha and there are thousands of assets left to develop and visually the existing game will look and feel very different once these are in place.

also, music like:
c2.glitch.com/glitch/sound/...

and levels like:
glitch.com/downloads/2010-0...

will probably seem to give the game a bit more .. gravitas .. by the time it is launched. but still, glitch feels somehow lacking in the epic qualities that intense, life consuming games possess.

so here is a topic for players to jot down ideas on how to make the game feel a bit more epic / cinematic / intense without going overboard and losing the casual charm of the cartoony world.

Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • a good game to play and look at for inspiration is Final Fantasy IV/III

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final...

    tho using small, cute, cartoony character avatars, it had moments articulating profound sadness, epic intensity, and pure visual beauty - employing cinematic techniques and effective use of musical to transform a graphically simple game into something visually and emotionally immersive.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • one thing i've noticed about the game is that it is visually lush from corner to corner of every screen, with stuff all over the place. it might be effective to have some levels or rooms where the visual focus ends up being on a single pedestal, chair, item etc. etc.

    alternatively, a level might start out being very simple, but as you move through it more and more of the background is revealed, showing a sprawling, epic landscape. kinda like walking through the woods, out of the trees and encountering a cliff and amazing vista.

    -----

    also, and this might be a bit cheesy .. but it could be interesting if two players are interacting only with each other, or if the player character is concentrating very hard on something specific, to actually have the game world fade out into blackness, leaving the characters in visual isolation for a moment.

    or maybe, more subtly, the edges of the level could take on some vignetting to provide visual focus on the player.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigne...

    maybe while doing certain actions, the existing level music could fade out and a new musical cue could be introduced. i think in a previous thread i mentioned getting into an elevator and the existing level music fading out, and elevator music of "the girl from ipanema" playing until *ding* the elevator stops and you get out. that's kinda for comical effect but similar techniques could be used to infuse the game with 'special' memorable moments.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • " glitch feels somehow lacking in the epic qualities that intense, life consuming games possess."

    I agree, but I am not so sure that is such a bad thing, for a casual gamer like me. :-)
    I have always thought that it was relationships among players that created the glue in GNE, and it feels it could be the same way with Glitch. Just thinking about how tight the core group of original test players for GNE became, and how tight they still are, I have to assume that that is where intensity would develop.

    As for epic scale, yes, if the idea (discussed elsewhere) that all players are contributing to a greater outcome is true, and the game could be designed to reflect failure (future disemprobablization) as well as success. Although the game takes place in the past, there could be warning signs that might mean nothing to beginning players but that would be apparent to more seasoned players, who could then take the opportunity to turn things around by taking some kind of action/cooperative action.

    As for cinematic-- everything mentioned sounds good to me.
    Posted 3 years ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I have always thought that it was relationships among players that created the glue in GNE, and it feels it could be the same way with Glitch."

    that's definitely the case, tho i'm talking more about the aesthetics of the game rather than the dynamics of the social network within it.

    i don't think the epic-ness of a game diminishes its social capacity. world of warcraft has epic qualities and a thriving social network. WoW is not for casual gamers because of the cost [both in money and time], the complexity of the control scheme and the focus on combat.

    glitch could be signaling that it is more than your average casual flash platformer. signaling this stylistically through visuals, audio and pacing will be more effective than merely telling people that the game involves a large world and social network attributes.

    i'd say that the game visuals in the public teaser trailer and alpha testing levels seem detailed, creative, lush, quirky and beautiful. that said, i'd not describe them as expansive and illustrating the game's eventual scope.

    i feel bad suggesting this kind of stuff coz i know the game is truly a work in progress and the artists working on it are extremely talented. it is more about figuring out the gestalt relationship tween gameplay and visual/audio landscape, which is much more difficult to do.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • another technique for changing tone/mood and possibly introducing an epic quality .. moving the 'camera'.

    so right now the player character is always present on screen. it could be kinda dramatic if at times the screen shifted left, right, up or down - leaving the character off screen for a moment - to illustrate an action.

    like if a character shot off some fireworks into the sky and the camera 'tracked' up, following the rocket until it exploded in the air, then coming back down to re-join the player character. or maybe when entering a puzzle type level the 'camera' could pan around, showing various aspects of the room that might need to be triggered to solve the puzzle before returning to the player.

    ... lots of places such a technique could be deployed, making the game more visually dynamic.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wouldn't want more camera motion. *dizzy*
    Posted 3 years ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ooh! I like the differing perspectives idea - particularly when you change size, your perspective changes.
    Posted 3 years ago by lauraglu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the 'camera' could always move more slowly than when you run - no dizziness.

    as for perspective, that wasn't what i was thinking but it is a keen idea! maybe on certain levels the view is "zoomed out" with a smaller looking avatar in a more expansive world. maybe on other levels the avatar could be very large, giving a mire intimate feeling.

    only suggestions, of course. in practice it might look weird.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe the reason it lacks an "epic" quality is the fact that there is not really any danger to characters.

    It is impossible to get emotionally invested in a character that is always safe.
    Posted 3 years ago by Nommers Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Maybe the reason it lacks an "epic" quality is the fact that there is not really any danger to characters."

    no. that's not it. it is more about the sense of scale. IMAX movies can feel incredibly epic, for example, without a single weapon present, or even a narrative.

    "It is impossible to get emotionally invested in a character that is always safe."

    you've never played nintendogs or animal crossing or any number of other non combat based time sinks? : ]

    people get emotionally invested in teddybears, for crying out pete's sake. and characters in non-action movies. i don't think the lack of fighting in the game has anything to do with character investment. and character investment would work differently in glitch anyway, coz the avatar is less a character than it is "you", since you speak through it directly.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Difficult quests
    Part of the "epic" feeling is about getting rewarded for complex, time-consuming, difficult tasks. As the game expands and becomes broader in its outlook (rather than just one zone) this should become more possible.
    Posted 3 years ago by wurzel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I think lots of games confuse epicness with being po-faced or serious."

    i agree. i'm not trying to suggest glitch be too serious. although i think it would be nice if it had some serious moments here and there, for the most part there is no need for seriousness in order to be epic.

    i mean, the katamari games were seriously epic in many ways, without being epically serious.

    "Given what's been said in other threads about having hundreds of thousands of locations, this sounds like it's already dealt with."

    sort of .. having scale is part of it, but articulating that scale is important. not only should it *be* big, but it should also *feel* big ..

    "Part of the "epic" feeling is about getting rewarded for complex, time-consuming, difficult tasks."

    i was thinking about this earlier too .. about not just "making" things but "building" things. it would be more epic to accomplish creating things that the verb "make" doesn't satisfy, and only "build" will do.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • po-faced?
    Posted 3 years ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • www.merriam-webster.com/dic...
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I ♥♥♥ this discussion. (And I feel bad on behalf of myself, and on behalf of everyone else on the team, for participating so sparingly. Will get better at that!)
    Posted 3 years ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As a casual game player, I'm not sure how I feel about the "epic" issue. Epic games often require a major time commitment and that's not something I'd be able to do. I like the idea of a light, fluffy game that I can pop in and out of. Of course, a player that puts more time into it will get more out of it and gain higher levels faster and so on, but there still has to be room for a casual player to just enjoy a bit of time in the game now and then without being overwhelmed with all the things they're not able to keep track of and do.
    Posted 3 years ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As a former consumer of Teletubbies products, I can't think of "po-faced" as solemn, but see the point.

    I think epic should point to a larger scope, not a longer or more urgent to-do list. I would prefer that this game have built-in simmer time, the kind of time that a RL giant project requires. The kind of "epic" that allows you to get around the next corner on your grand quest as long as you put in the click time is what creates a giant time sink...and no wonder it's called grinding.

    As a parent, if I think of raising my kids as a game (all references to recent horribleness in S. Korea unintentional)...I can't make them grow and develop any faster by parenting harder, even though I know I am instrumental in their growth--there's simmer time built in. I just basically complete mini-quest after mini-quest with them and in between quests, I level up in my cooking, house maintenance, bill paying and such.
    Posted 3 years ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "As a casual game player, I'm not sure how I feel about the "epic" issue. Epic games often require a major time commitment and that's not something I'd be able to do."

    maybe i need to clarify what i meant by "epic". i think that making the game appear more epic could actually reduce the time commitment.

    Lalu has it - "epic" = larger scope, not a longer and more urgent to-do list.

    earlier i mentioned "walking the line between casual social games and intense, multiplayer, life-consuming games.” and i think a game with epic scope could do just that. mostly because it would allow exploration and savoring the worldscape to encourage more play time in a less stressful, less rushed manner than "click-fest '97, grind edition".

    it just requires a lot of art assets .. and more importantly judicious, effective, beautiful, epic, intense *application* of those assets to stretch their effectiveness are far as possible instead of just having them all randomly zip past in the background while you're running around harvesting fruit trees.
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "(And I feel bad on behalf of myself, and on behalf of everyone else on the team, for participating so sparingly. Will get better at that!)"

    you don't *have* to get better at responding if you don't want, so long as you are slaving away at building the game : ]
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yeah, get back to work! ;-)
    Posted 3 years ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lalu: I love your description of parenting:

    "I can't make them grow and develop any faster by parenting harder, even though I know I am instrumental in their growth--there's simmer time built in. I just basically complete mini-quest after mini-quest with them and in between quests, I level up in my cooking, house maintenance, bill paying and such."

    While definitely epic in scale, parenting still involves a lot of day-to-day grinding. :)
    Posted 3 years ago by Tammeeeee! Subscriber! | Permalink
  • thanks! :-)
    Posted 3 years ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the problem is that a game is capable of being just as grindy as parenting, but it incapable of being as rewarding.

    because of this, i don't think emulating parenting too closely is the way to go : ]
    Posted 3 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think size and complexity make MMOs feel epic to me. And that doesn't have to come across right away, and has little to nothing to do with violence. A new player can walk around an area for a while, and then all of a sudden realize everything they have done up until now is in 5% of the game area, and there are complexities in the gameplay that the player didn't even realize.

    This reveal is part of the magic that I think really only Blizzard gets right now. Introduce people slowly to something that is legitimately fun, then as they play more make them realize they have only been in a small part of a much larger and complex world, full of actual human interaction.
    Posted 3 years ago by cohesion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • looking at the trailer for this iPhone game, and thinking how epic and visually intense it is despite being 2d and relatively lo-fi like glitch is:

    bigbucketsoftware.com/thein...

    blew my socks off.
    Posted 2 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "A new player can walk around an area for a while, and then all of a sudden realize everything they have done up until now is in 5% of the game area"

    reminds me of when my friends and i completed the first island of the original Final Fantasy. i can still remember the exact feeling of that moment : ]
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Am I the only one that read po-faced as poo-faced?

     I'm mature like that sometimes. ;) 
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i forgot i had referenced the Katamari games as a good example of being "seriously epic without being epically serious"

    : ] : ] : ]
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Old thread is old.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is really interesting to read this thread again.  I find it funny that the reality today is that Glitch does provide me with a long to-do list, albeit not an urgent one, and I actually love it.  And that rather than quests being something I do in between periods of leveling up, it's actually one of my basic means of leveling up. 

    I am also still completely unsure of what epic means in regards to Glitch.   

    I do still think the primary glue in this game is the social/community aspect, but that worries me now in a way that it didn't before, mostly because I think the majority of community building is happening in the forums and the news feed, and to some extent groups--not as much in the game itself.
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • But, the community building in forums and groups is more by necessity, no?   Where else to build when the game is closed?  Was it different in early alpha?
    Posted 17 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Nanookie: Also, part of me thinks...well, does it matter how we build community per se if we are building it in this Glitch-shaped space? :)
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's nothing wrong, I guess, with community building itself via the forums and yeah, while the game is down, what else ya gonna do?!  

    Actually, I am wrong...there are two mechanisms in game that encourage bonds and clustering among players: Global chat and Projects.   I have high hopes for the Rook creating those kinds of loose but consistent teams, and eventually just like there are Project players, there will Rook fighters.  
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think there's a complementary activity going on - I have found more "instant" rapport with some people in-game, then developed and strengthened it in the forums.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And there will be a new dynamic with....  what did stoot call them, Lodges?   It sounded a bit like gated communities to me.
    Posted 17 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Group halls, maybe?  Anywho, yes.  Some sort of group gathering place.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I think the majority of community building is happening in the forums and the news feed, and to some extent groups--not as much in the game itself."

    that's because people are so sucked into the to-do lists they love so much, they don't do much else.

    which is why the only time social stuff really clicks is at end of test where there is simply no time or purpose to keep grinding away at the endless to-do list.

    "@Nanookie: Also, part of me thinks...well, does it matter how we build community per se if we are building it in this Glitch-shaped space? :)"

    it does matter, because status updates and forums practically drop off the face of the planet when the game is on, because of the to-do list fixation, which also causes very little community to transfer over.

    but none of this has anything to do with the original post.
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Firstly, they could work on transitions between areas. Like some games I played, when entering a new place/ street, it's like opening your eyes. An eye opener. Haha. I meant, as in presentation- when you get to a new place, it's a black screen that fades into the area graphics. That would be pretty cool. 
    Secondly, full screen. Lately I have been trying to full screen the game (F11), but it doesn't respond to my F11 commands. Why? Maybe it just needs a Full Screen button. I'm the kind of person who likes my games full screen.
    Thirdly...... Fishing? Well, guess I just need something besides cooking to do. At least they have given us a huge area to explore. I'm hoping that the underground parts in Baqala actually lead to juju bases, where we could do bonus repeatable mini-quests that come with little stuff, like random kindnesses. Or something. I'm sure the devs will think of something.
    Posted 17 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @striatic: I think when game is 24/7 people will use both game and groups/forums (I did in the other big browser-based MMO I played) to build community. And well, no our posts didn't have to do with OP. Consider me mildly chastened :)
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink