Topic

Staff Topic

Enemy Mine (on the recent mining changes)

Let's stop all this a-fussin' and a-fightin'.

We recently put out some changes to the way mining works, which prevented multiple players from mining the same rock. This was intended to correct a case where a rock was mined out by one player, causing others also mining it to lose energy without gaining any rocks. Unfortunately, the end result was that players would get 'rock blocked' by whoever was the fastest miner around, which was generally frustrating and no fun. In fact, mining seems to have been a source of animosity between players for a while, engendering bitter feuds resulting in nothing but hurt feelings. 

But no longer!

Now you can mine cooperatively with other players. When you approach a rock to mine it, if there are any other players present you will have the option to 'help mine.' When you help mine, you mine as normal and always receive your normal amount of rock chunks (no matter what!), but everyone already mining the same rock receives an additional bonus.

So now there's still an advantage to being first to get mining (more bonuses, especially when many players are helping), but anyone can mine any rock available to them, and no one gets left empty-handed.

Everybody's happy!

Posted 19 months ago by Pinot Myrmidon Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Beautiful solution! I totally heart you guys.
    Posted 19 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Love it! AND Enemy Mine is a classic! +2!!!
    Posted 19 months ago by Jepro Subscriber! | Permalink
  • brilliant!
    Posted 19 months ago by Dandilion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fabulous :D
    Posted 19 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And it's actually even better than it sounds. Consider two players who we will call Eloise and Abelard. First, Eloise comes across a rock and starts mining. Then Abelard happens upon the same rock. Since Eloise is already mining, Abelard helps Eloise. But since Eloise will also finish first, when she starts up again, she'll be helping Abelard.

    And it works with two, three, four or any number of players. The more players, the faster the rock will disappear, but the more bonuses for helping are handing out (if four people are helping you, you get four bonus chunks). And no one gets less than the proper amount (even if it means that the rock has to give out a bit extra).
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, what an awesomely simple and brilliant solution to that problem.

    Devs are da best!
    Posted 19 months ago by That Kid Tyler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yay \0/
    Posted 19 months ago by Ani Laurel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Elegant.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I KNEW you all would figure out a most excellent solution once folks got all lathered. Well done!
    Posted 19 months ago by Mac Rapalicious Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yay!  What a peaceable and satisfactory solution.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tradescantia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yay :)
    Posted 19 months ago by audrey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Congrats to Silent Observer for the excellent idea!
    Posted 19 months ago by Myles! Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So the bonus appears to be +1 chunk for every person that starts mining the rock after you (or helps). So with 4 people, one person would get +3, another +2, another +1 and finally 0 for the slow poke. At least thats what it seems initially.

    As for the totals, the combined amount between all peeps seems to be higher than the amount you would get solo (50 chunks). That may be attributed to different mining levels though.

    Is there a max bonus? Say if we had 100 people mining the rock? :)
    Posted 19 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • THIS IS FANTASTIC!!!
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Okay, so, to clarify... I won't be seen as a rude ass/jerk if I help mine, right? I mean, generally speaking.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well...you'll only be slightly less of a jerk than you would have been last week (or still not a jerk depending on your stance). Since a person going solo would get 50 chunks, versus the split amount with a helper (or less than 50).

    Now if you and a gang of 100 showed up to mine my rock...maybe not.
    Posted 19 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Awesome solution. Thanks guys!
    Posted 19 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Joe Blow: But even though you get less than 50 rock, you still get bonuses, and with more helpers then the higher the bonus. Right? So should we try to help mine, when possible? Is it a form of altruism in the game? Or would people still prefer that we don't help mine unless we ask? I ask because I'd really like to not upset others and I'd love to help mine if we all get more out of it...
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, but the bonus is dependant on when you start mining. So if you and a gang of 100 people show up to a rock that I'm about to start on, but I'm slow to the pick and start 99th...I'm pretty well screwed. If I start 1st, probaly not too bad. I only tested with 4 people, so I'm not sure how it scales out.

    It's too dependant on start order, it seems. With barnacles or patches, at least everyone gets the same reward as if they were to do it alone - 1 barn or earth. With this, the reward (50 chunks) is split and the bonus rewards the fastest to the pick.

    Prior to the changes, I wasn't inclined to mine someone else's rock, nor did I care if someone mined mine. This won't change my behavior unless there is something that I am missing.

    It's an interesting twist, though.
    Posted 19 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • JoeBlow, re "As for the totals, the combined amount between all peeps seems to be higher than the amount you would get solo (50 chunks)."

    The minimum amount for solo mining is still 50. With two people mine together (assuming one is always helping the other, whether they take turns helping or not) the minimum will vary per rock (since they have different yields per "mine") but be around 58-60. With 5 or 10 people, you could get 100+ out of one rock.

    Cerulean: "So should we try to help mine, when possible?" — we'll see what happens: it will always work out better for both players, but some people are extremely ... possessive. And so they might be mad anyway :)
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What a brilliant solution!!!
    Posted 19 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot - "it will always work out better for both players"

    In what way, efficiency? If I mine solo I get 50 chunks. If I mine with 1 person, we split an albeit bigger pie (err, rock), let's say 60, but each stills ends up with 30 plus 'possibly' a bonus of 2 or 3 if I start mining first each time.

    Are you saying that it's an 'easier' 30 as far as energy consumption? I think most people's complaint has to do with rock scarcity (this is the only sparkly within a 5 street radius, so hands off!), not energy expended.

    I'm not saying that it's not better than it was last week, because it is. But 2 people mining the same rock is still worse than 1 person mining solo. Assuming that getting 50 sparkly is your goal.

    Now, if people were pooling resources, that might be a different story. Maybe in groups of 10.

    Not complaining, just trying to comprehend :)
    Posted 19 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ahhhh, so then it's possible for two people to mine a rock and still get 50 each out of it, and then some? Yeah, if that's the case, this is amazing... and I may jump onto any and all rocks I see, and hope that people will actually be happy about it, lol.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is wonderful. I <3 Silent Observer. :)
    Posted 19 months ago by Lelu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • JoeBlow, IF you assume that getting 50 chunks is the goal of both Eloise and Abelard AND (there is only one rock anywhere nearby OR each has another, secondary, goal of preventing the other from getting chunks) THEN this change is only slightly better than neutral — they will battle it out to get the most chunks and get each will a few more whereas before they would battle it out and get a few less (unless, say, Eloise is consistently better at button mashing then Abelard, in which case this change is worse for Eloise and better for Abelard).

    In all other cases the change will be better for both Eloise and Abelard (in that they will both get as many chunks as possible and consume less of their time and energy per chunk):

    • If it's just the two of them and there are two (or more) rocks around they can mine them separately or together and both end up with more per "mine".

    • If there are several rocks and several players, co-op mining the rocks in sequence will net each player more chunks than if they each mined each rock solo while simultaneously using less energy.

    • If there are fewer rocks than players (and no-one minds that their action causes someone else to get an extra, "free" chunk) then (on average) each player will still get more than they would have got before by battling it out, regardless of their degree of co-ordination. (Like before, some will get more and others less, depending who arrived first and who moves quicker, but the distribution ratio would be about the same with everyone having slightly more.)
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for the scenarios, stoot. There's a sweet spot of rocks/players in there, somewhere.
    Posted 19 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the "solo gets 50" isn't an issue if you think about it.

    while you will get fewer chunks from the rock than normal, the rock will be removed that much more quickly and you can more quickly move along to another rock than you would if solo.

    really, the "per rock" measure isn't very relevant, it is just an arbitrary way of figuring out yields. 

    what matters is the "per minute" or "per action" or "per energy" yield.

    if you go "chunks per unit of energy", working together will always be better than going solo, due to bonuses. "per minute" should also be very similar, as you get less per rock, but you end up mining more rocks.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • there may also be another, larger scale benefit, in that with the rocks being mined more quickly they will cycle through their regenerative phase more often and making the mines more productive overall by increasing the total number of harvests.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • thank you all so much for finding a friendly and neighborly solution!
    Posted 19 months ago by Wren Bramble Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd like to see a project with substantial rock requirements that would force mining cooperation the way that loam, firefly and barnacle requirements do. Otherwise, the incentive to get mining parties together doesn't seem that great right now.

    1M sparkly project? There might be some drama...  Platypus anyone?
    Posted 19 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, let me ask everyone else... would you mind if I helped you mine? Is there anyone who doesn't want me to help? Lol. Because I'm getting ready to go around and help or just mine solo, whenever.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Love the change!
    Posted 19 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Love the solution, it's very much in the spirit of glitch!
    Posted 19 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think its an awesome solution, and it really benefits both sides of this debate!  Love it!
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • everything seems reasonable to me.  I welcome the change!
    Posted 19 months ago by IxÆoN Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Well done!

    Suggestion: add 'help mine' as an early mining quest (maybe to the first one?) so that newcomers get clued into it. :D
    Posted 19 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1WTG Brilliant thinking!  Had this happen to me today when I was at a rock!  Both went away happy:)

    TYSM!
    Posted 19 months ago by ♥joby♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Kudos to the team for a brilliant solution.
    Posted 19 months ago by Anty-pants Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great Solution!
    Posted 19 months ago by BumbleBeez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @zeeberk - perfect!

    "Suggestion: add 'help mine' as an early mining quest (maybe to the first one?) so that newcomers get clued into it." 

    Devs, make is so.  :)
    Posted 19 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Excellent, no-one could object to sharing like this I would think.  Great for co-operation and friendliness. :-)
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @MeherMan: At full impulse?
    Posted 19 months ago by Lelu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • GENIUS.

    Thanks to Silent Observer and the devs, all of whom have their hearts AND brains in the right places!!
    Posted 19 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Brilliant idea
    Posted 19 months ago by snygyst Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can't see how this can be any more perfect :)
    Posted 18 months ago by Miss Muffett Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you so much for such a great solution to this problem.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cygnoir Subscriber! | Permalink
  • :O I had missed this topic in the midst of last test! What a great idea & solution to the mining chaos! Round of applause, Silent Observer. :3
    Posted 18 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cunning bit of marketing...
    Posted 18 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink