Topic

Shucking and Upgrades

Something is fantastically awkward in trying to explain the mechanics and benefits for Herbalisim III (optimal shucking abilities for the home or community herb gardener) and Super Seedy Powers (Always get double seeds when shucking herbs). While I understand there is a range of for shucking some herbs and there are two 'groups' of herbs, the fail rate seems unordinarily high when fully upgraded.

Examples (with Herbalisim III and Super Seedy Powers):
Group 1  - A stack of 50 Rubeweed yields 200 seeds, 4 per flower. A stack of 25 yields 100. Shucked one at a time I get 4 seeds per shuck. These are consistent.

Group 2 -  A stack of 50 Purple yields 112 seeds, for an average of 2.24 per flower. Super Seedy Powers seems to be in effect, ensuring the first 100... but is 0.24 really 'optimal shucking'? A stack of 25 yields 56 (0.24) - yes, I am aware both of these results are at the low end of the spectrum but they are also not uncommon. Shucking 25 flowers one at a time yields 14 results at x2, 10 results at x4 and one fail.

I understand a (fairly low) fail rate, I understand the basis of receiving the 2 seeds for Group 2 Herbs *is* the double seeds... but what exactly is 'optimal' in practice for the 4x?

I've started a topic in the FAQ Group as a data gathering exercise to help make sense of some of it. Feel free to participate... but really? What gives?
 

Posted 91 days ago by Wandering Confusion Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • And Yellow Crumb for me is variable from failure to top returns with full skills on, almost as it was for me a year ago.
    Posted 91 days ago by Benzyl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah seconded for Yellow Crumb. I've noticed just recently that it's getting way more variable now than it used to be, but it may just be my imagination. Sometimes I swear I get less than 2x seeds when shucked. I've started shucking in groups of 2 at a time now because it seems to yield more that way than doing big batches at a time.
    Posted 91 days ago by zachwulf Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With all current skills and upgrades, herbs that are harvested one herb per plot (Rookswort, Rubeweed, Gandlevery, and Hairbal Flower) all shuck at 4 seds per plant. The other three herbs (Yellow Crumb, Silvertongue, and Purple Flower) are harvested at 3 herbs per plot and are shucked at 4,2, or 0, randomly, but not necessarily at an equal chance for each ammount.
    Posted 91 days ago by Rosencrantz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With all currant skills <--- too much time on glitch causes glitchens to type current with the letter A!
    Posted 91 days ago by Mospov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I shuck YC in batches of 200, and I have also noticed the results got more variable -- about two weeks ago. Howver, in lots of 5000, I get roughly the same number of seeds, 2.63 or so per herb. I think they reduced the odds on getting two seeds, and increased the odds for 4 and zero -- but carefully balanced to still get 2.6xxx seeds on average.
    Posted 91 days ago by Sturminator IX Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is... is Onyxia really deep breathing more?  :|
    Posted 91 days ago by Meromorphic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh... yeah that is weird... I had forgotten about the "always get double seeds when shucking herbs" thing. I have the upgrade card but a bit ago I was shucking a single flower in the middle of doing non-herb-related things, and it was destroyed.
    Posted 91 days ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @diaveborn -- that also happened to me about half an hour ago.
    Posted 91 days ago by JohnaMarie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Okay, mentioned in live help the destroying thing.  It *could* be that the card is supposed to give double seeds for every *successful* shucking and is just another upgrade-card-related-bad-wording-of-things thing.
    Posted 91 days ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well that would make sense, but it should have indeed been worded better.
    Posted 91 days ago by JohnaMarie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There is indeed a bug (discovered a few days ago when looking into why most hardcore players basically just grow and shuck Yellow Crumb all their playtime nowadays) but the bug is that you get 2.6666 seeds per flower with all the skills and upgrades (you are supposed to only get 1.3333).

    There was no change in the last few weeks (indeed, the bug has been there for Yellow Cumb, Purple and Silvertongue since we introduced them — Gandlevery, Rubeweed, Rookswort and Hairball all work properly.) If it seems different, that's the nature of random stuff and the human propensity for pattern-finding — here's a great episode of Radiolab on that topic: www.radiolab.org/2009/jun/15/

    The fail rate is unaffected by the doubling (0 x 2 = 0) but we can see why it's confusing … the whole thing was confusing enough to us that we didn't really notice the problem till now :)

    There will be an announcement on this very topic in the next day or two …
    Posted 91 days ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hm. Thanks stoot. I'm hoping the announcement will be accompanied by a re-word of the card?
    Posted 91 days ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Posting in epic yc nerf(?) pre-announcement thread.

    @Meromorphic
    More Dots.
    Posted 91 days ago by Nightclub Dwight Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Incoming crying = -50 DKP
    Posted 91 days ago by XD Subscriber! | Permalink
  • damn.
    Posted 91 days ago by Electric Wizard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • most hardcore players basically just grow and shuck Yellow Crumb all their playtime nowadays

    Nobody does that, nobody.  We just LOVE flowers! 
    Posted 91 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Took the words right out of my mouth ............................. Double Damn
    Posted 91 days ago by Swoooo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh noessssss  not a yc nerf!!! Danngggg 
    Posted 91 days ago by Jessenya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah...shhexy corin....they look SO lovely in our homes.

    s h i ... :(
    Posted 91 days ago by Atlantis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Of course there is a yellow crumb nerf (I mentioned it was coming on my blog over a month ago, and that was well over a month after I was aware of the problem).  But I'm a little bit confused about what stoot said about the intended odds.  If the intended number of seeds per shuck is 1.33 when doubled, that means the base shuck is a one in three chance of being a failure and a two-in-three chance of giving one seed.  I guess what is confusing me is that if we are getting 0, 2 or 4 right now then that seems to suggest that sometimes it is being doubled once and sometimes it is being doubled twice.  But in that case the result should be less than double the intended value (double the intended value would require that you *always* double twice, not sometimes double twice).

    So if the observed value is 2.66 and the intended value is 1.33 then that difference can't be explained by sometimes doubling - we should see only 0 or 4, not 0, 2 or 4. 
    Posted 91 days ago by Humbabella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stoot This yellow crumb "bug" you speak of is merely a work-around, I feel, for folks who don't wish to go the more "traditional" route of factory-farming piggies. Early on in the game, I watched as folks who had no "moral" compunctions as to how they treated their piggies grew rich, while I, who couldn't bring myself to treat piggies in this way, remained poor.

    I knew there was something I was "missing" game-wise, as to how to amass wealth quickly, but I didn't care. I was happy to remain poor and play the game as best I could. And I was happy to eventually discover that growing herbs, something I loved to do, could bring income. Yellow crumb in particular brought a steady income, though at the time I tinctured it, cuz that seemed to be the more cost effective way of selling it.

    Later, shucking the seeds was proven to be even more cost effective, so I started doing that, and lo...I was actually profiting in my game play! Imagine that! I have put many, many hours into this game...I suppose you could call me a steady player. I am bound by the constrictions I place upon myself, as well as some game restraints, but for the most part, I feel that I play as much and as often as can be expected from a "casual" gamer, if not more so.

    So if yellow crumb is lucrative, why nerf that? Many folks play way more casually than I do. That is, they devote as much of their spare time as they can to this game, which may be minimal. I devote as much of mine, which is substantial, and I still feel I'm lucky to break even.

    There are games out there which require much less time, but they're not nearly as fun to play. They are casual in the strictest sense; that even if you want to spend more time there, you can't, cuz there's nothing much to do.

    Glitch is the opposite extreme; it feels like as much time as I spend here, it's never enough, which may explain the burn-out rate. Maybe a "maintenance bot" or some such would help with that? I dunno.

    All I know is that if you take away my yellow crumb as an income, then you'd best figure out something worth my while to replace it with. I refuse to factory farm piggies...hell, I can't even squeeze chickens in good conscience. You nerfed the instant cards, and I was fine with that, cuz I have a heck of a lot of img as it is, so I really don't care. I'm not hell-bent-for-leather on leveling this time around, so it's no skin off my nose, though I know it upset a bunch of folks. Still, you listened to them, and you then fixed it so that it would be fair.

    I'm hoping you will listen to me, and other herb-growers, and come up with a fair solution. On the one hand, if you nerf the yellow thing, then you will keep a lot of herb-trolls offa my street (no, for the umpteenth time, NO, I am NOT on a resource route, so get offa my lawn!) and so I won't complain too much. On the other, if you nerf it, then you cut into my earnings, putting me at a significant disadvantage to those currant-mongers who will do anything for a buck.

    I trust TS to do the right thing; they seem to imagine up solutions much better than I could ever come up with myself, so I do trust them. However, this latest development makes me nervous, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, so I'm really hoping you guys can come up with something fair and reasonable...hell, you will. I trust you. :) <3
    Posted 91 days ago by KitchWitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So if yellow crumb is lucrative, why nerf that

    Cos it's ridiculously lucrative compared to everything else in the game  - and as stoot said,  it's broken and was never meant to behave as it currently does

    (I'm a herb grower)
    Posted 91 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, shhexy, and I suppose you pronounce "herb" with a hard "h," too? Oh nevermind. Carry on, shhweets. ;)
    Posted 90 days ago by KitchWitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I suppose you pronounce "herb" with a hard "h," too? 

    yes,  because I'm British. 

    What was that all about? Were you trying to insult me?
    Posted 90 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I gave up on mass farming yellow when I realized I didn't really have anything to spend that amount of money on. Even only planting and harvesting yellow 2x per day I was making 200-250k currants a week. I bought some dolls, I bought a GNG, I bought a spigot and a rube potato - but I realized there really wasn't anything to spend that kind of money on, so I quit.

    So, I have no problem with this nerf - why do we need millions of currants, anyway? There's nothing to spend it on.
    Posted 90 days ago by Aliera Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ohhhhh,  yanks would say "an herb grower"

    still don't get it
    Posted 90 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry shhexy hon, I was just poking fun. Certainly no disrespect...being that I'm a night owl in the US, many of my closest friends are UK, so certainly no offense there. Not teasing your nationality, love, just you...and lightly, at that. Plus I'm drunk, so pay no mind...hugs! :D
    Posted 90 days ago by KitchWitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Teasing me why?  (actually, don't worry about that, not important)

    Something is clearly out of balance with some herbs, yellow crumb in particular.  I've been taking advantage of that, as have many others. It's been fairly obvious that this would get nerfed, as does everything that is outrageously profitable in the game,  because that's how game development works.

    The flipside of that is that things that work LESS profitably than desired get made MORE profitable or easier. e.g. increasing batch sizes when crafting bubbles/gas/etc; the recent changes to the PM3 potions

    A game like this constantly needs to monitor and adjust its mechanics, or else, it'll be a really crap game
    Posted 90 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yup, agreed Shhexy, and I think Aliera hit it on the nail...why do we need all these currants anyhow? Well, really only if you want really cool ingame stuff, you know, like a rusty faucet, or a potato which some devotee swears up and down is a likeness to the Rube. You got me, there, though I do think the yetis (both of em) and the broken chick cubi are just cool. (Hell, I think the Hell's bartender cubi is freakin awesome too, so there's no accounting for taste here. :P) 

    But there's something else to consider here, and that is that if yellow is nerfed, then the new gardening potions are rendered pretty much obsolete. I mean, who wants to invest that much into potions that help gardening, when you're not gonna receive much of a payout?

    The time and effort it takes to grow yellow normally, as an income source, is steep enough. To factor in other herbs and growing times, not to mention tincturing them and whatnot, is pricey already. To sacrifice all of that for new gardening potions felt worth it, initially, cuz you feel that the potions will pay off in the long run, if you have to power-harvest yellow at some point to gain currants in a hurry. (Man, the old way of power-harvesting sucked. I did it once...I had gotten the knock-off yeti...whooo! But I still wanted the cubi, and so I worked my gardens all night, and oh, I can still smell the guano...oh man, seriously, no fucking fun whatsoever, and yet I did it.)

    So yah, you take the yellow profit away, you're left with a bunch of empty gardening potions, that will have no use except to someone who....for whatever reason...REALLY NEEDS to power harvest that rubeweed! Or silvertongue, or whatever.

    You see....see....?

    They HAVE no need, and so the potions will become obsolete...ooooh, a new collector's item...?

    Yellow is obsolete, potions are obsolete, so what do I have to look forward to then...umm...a new rare item I can't afford?

    I call a revolution....nerf the yellow thing, but BRING YETIS TO THE PEOPLE!!!

    Fuck the grind...bring the joy, yo. K, bed now. :)
    Posted 90 days ago by KitchWitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If this is going to be nerfed, perhaps some upgrade cards could be introduced which would bring the rate back up?  Growing yc is still an extremely slow way to earn money, unless you use tons of guano, which cuts into profits and takes a long time to gather.  It's always been disappointing to learn all of the herbology skills and then realize that you STILL fail at shucking the flowers with colors in their names.  Perhaps instead we could get two seeds from each flower, with a smaller chance of a four-seed shuck, or something along those lines.
    Posted 90 days ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • that would have to be one expensive upgrade card... 
    Posted 90 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yellowcrumb was getting boring anyway.
    Posted 90 days ago by LųĉĩđεşşΨ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • TS had to investigate the reason hardcore players were farming yellow for the last 6 weeks? (Hardcore, really? I buy yellow from level 10's on streets, and 20's in new towers) TS really had no idea how some people were able to get 6 imported yetis? Honestly, I think level 5 players were figuring out yellow was exploitively profitable. It didn't exactly take rocket science. It sounds like TS just trying to smooth over the incoming rage about the yellow nerf by blaming it on a confusing issue and overlook.

    Lets be honest here, yellow was under the radar for a long time and the players who support this game (yes, us hardcore ones that pay subs, buy credits, and choose to have fun in the game, HOW WE WANT TO.), were profiting off of it for a long time. The rare vendor release caused yellow to become a giant bubble, and now you have to burst that bubble. The reason people were focusing on only one product? YOU caused that TS. You put out the rares and pushed us to work for more currants to get one. You forced the rest of the community to figure it out and it was an avalanche from there.

    Obviously it deserves to be nerfed and I for one can't wait for it, but it's deserved a nerf for over a month . If TS staff didn't know this was happening after millions and millions of currants were already poured out of the tool vendor, there are some major problems. Lets not forget the fact that some TS were even growing it themselves... I feel like there really needs to be a standard patch/bug procedure before the re-launch of this game to prevent things like this. I also hope this sudden "blame" of poor game changes on the "hardcore" players, ceases, because TS only has themselves to blame for things like cards and yellow being exploited for months.

    A friend brought this up to me, but one thing TS may not realize is that yellow has revitalized a lot of their player base. Users who were inactive for months, or even a year (like me) came back and found yellow, rares, and all the socialization and selling that came from it to be great. I went from 10 friends, to 100+ and I talk to so many people now that I actually feel like I am playing a social game instead of locking myself away in my tower and private streets. Yellow did some good, and it will be interesting to see where things go from here. This nerf is going to change the game as most of us have known it for the past two months, I for one look forward to it.
    Posted 90 days ago by Ramus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I vote for a reset!
    Posted 90 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • a reset would be fantastic, old players rage quit and new players join. Good idea (y/n)? this reminds me of the time (long time ago) in Kingdom of Loathing (web browser game) where someone exploited the best food item in the billions, and sold by the millions, and dispersed throughout the entire community for months and months. The reason why it lasted so long though is because you couldn't just play all bloody day, you couldn't eat all of the food and say "exploit complete". There was a cap for everything. The price of that food item dropped to next to nothing in value but then the price slowly raised back up. Let's give the economy as much space and patience as possible, hold off on any rage about the economy, but when Glitch releases and something silly like THIS happens again.. its not gonna look good.
    Posted 90 days ago by LųĉĩđεşşΨ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • {runs around flailing his arms}   SHUCK EVERYTHING NOW!!!
    Posted 90 days ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL Walruz! I shucked all of mine already, which wasn't so hard, being as how i live hand to mouth to begin with. Let's give TS a chance to sort it out...I bet that even if they nerf it, some of us diehards will continue growing yellow...well...just because it's what we do. Let's trust in the direction TS wants to take us...not blindly, but with faith. Not religious faith of course, but...oh gods, you know what I mean. They're the captains of the ship...let's let them steer. I'm worried about stormy weather ahead...they always seem to steer us to safe harbor. I'm trusting in that. I'm worried, but I'm trusting. Can't wait to see where they steer us next, cuz if it's anything like what they've done before, it'll be even better....and more wondrous than ever.

    PS. Can I just take this opportunity here to thank TS for my new street, and climbable tree? Oh gosh. When I first came to glitch, back in the day, I was homeless, and I spent many a night camped out in a tree in Groddle Meadow or Forest. THANK YOU for reminding me of my nomadic days, so fondly, and thank you for the critter stories...I'm taking notes, and I hope someone else has got them from the beginning, cuz I missed a few....thank you, TS. I still love you...just....be nice to me. ;)
    Posted 90 days ago by KitchWitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's fine -- make the upgrade card expensive -- give us something to work toward!  I'd be thrilled to have something to spend img on. 
    Posted 90 days ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah well.. it will be a setback for me in terms of shrine donations..I grow yellow exclusively to donate.. I have never thought of making money from the seeds.. With the limited game time I have, it takes me a couple of days to obtain abt 2000 seeds which I donate for approx 70-80k. I do understand why TS may want to nerf YS but it doesn't make me feel better
    Posted 90 days ago by !$Harrump$! Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If it has to be nerfed, please keep the seed shucking rate the same and reduce the flowers given when plucked. This way, the pluckers who do not replant are not further encouraged and those of us who replant constantly are not further punished.
    Posted 90 days ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Whoa, Ramus, dude, chill out man, no one blamed you, no one blamed me, we all did it and that's fine, they're just going to change it because it IS too easy to get rich with it. I bought a Yeti and I've found out about YC money just before the rare vendor came out.

    "Lets not forget the fact that some TS were even growing it themselves..."
    Seriously?

    I think you're overreacting.
    Posted 90 days ago by Electric Wizard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Awww shucks!
    Posted 90 days ago by Glondor Glitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Electric, I am completely on board with the nerf. I think it was due weeks ago. I am just unhappy, once again, with how TS is handling a major game change. They really need to get their stuff together as far as community relations and communication goes. A random post here should not have been how the game world found out this morning about yellow going down the drain. (I understand theres going to be another announcement, but come on. This was not the way to bring up yellow for the first time as a discussion with staff.) As usual, some kind of blame was shifted onto the "hardcore player", aka the not fun player, the competitive player that isnt social, etc. for playing the game the way they want to. Its getting a bit tiresome.
    Posted 90 days ago by Ramus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Humbabella: "But I'm a little bit confused about what stoot said about the intended odds.  If the intended number of seeds per shuck is 1.33 when doubled, that means the base shuck is a one in three chance of being a failure and a two-in-three chance of giving one seed."

    It's actually a little more subtle than that: the dice are rolled twice for each flower because we're pretending that each flower has two delicate little seeds inside of it, each of which is hard to extract without wrecking it.

    So, we roll once with a 0.66 chance and then again with another 0.66 chance[1]; the result is 0, 1 or 2 seeds per flower shucked. The net expected seeds per flower is still 1.33, but the way of arriving there is different. The doubling happens after the number of seeds is determined.

    [1] This is the part that's wrong — the base was supposed to be a 0.33 chance on each roll so you needed higher levels skills/upgrades to get more than the replacement seeds from each batch of flowers.
    Posted 90 days ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ramus: I certainly never intended to "blame" players in any way (and, re-reading, I can't see what I said that would give that impression). As I just wrote in the ticket card thread:

    "Consider this analogy: tic tac toe is not a very fun game for most adults since it is "solved" (there is always an unambiguous best move, in any circumstance). But, no one blames the tic tac toe player for making the best move or says that the player is being unfair for making the move … they just say that tic tac toe is a boring game. We're trying to avoid making Glitch boring by balancing thing so there isn't one "move" which so completely dominates all other "moves"."

    And, as for mentioning in this thread that we'll make an announcement in advance … it seems liked a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing: in the past we've only announced changes at the time we made the change because we figured that was the fairest thing for everyone (people who missed the announcement were not at a disadvantage and everyone felt the effects at the same time). This time we decided we'd experiment with announcing in advance since many people requested that last time. But … can't please everyone :)
    Posted 90 days ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • can't please everyone

    Mark my words, there shall be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Garments shall be rent, and harsh words dealt.  Stand strong.  

    -- and can you wait until tomorrow?  I have a LOT of yellow to shuck, and I have a strict no-play-at-work policy. 
    Posted 90 days ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, I appreciate the response. It sort of came off that way recently with the whole "hardcore player" thing, and I understand you didn't intend it to. I get the tic tac toe point, and that was certainly an issue pre-flower that has not been fully resolved yet. Yellow seemed to just push that aside because of how much it re-invigorated this community, even if it produced negative results.

    I am curious to see which way we go from here. I have serious concerns about other systems that relied on yellow, such as potions 3. It almost seems like these new skills were designed around the current yellow market. The cost of the potions and the gain you get in time, will not make up for the fact that they cost more to produce than the end product. Perhaps these potions will need to be tweaked again after the yellow changes. I also just hope that this isn't too extreme of a change. That was the problem with the cards, it wasn't that it was nerfed, its that you all nerfed it too far. I hope that isn't the case here, but we wont see the actual repercussions in the market until its done. Yes, obviously yellow is too good, but its been too good for so long that its had lasting affects on the game. Sometimes slower, gradual changes are better than a quick cut. I really hope glitch is big enough one day to be able to hire an in-house economist like secondlife did.

    As far as the problem I have with the announcement, it is that an announcement is different than a post in a random glitches thread. An announcement can be easily seen by everyone. (Though, not THAT easily. I would seriously consider some kind of in-game feed or "note system" that lets us know when a new announcement was made.) I appreciate the forewarning this time, but it should really be done in an official manner with your laid out plans on these changes and what they mean to us. This way of doing it just left us with no ETA and many players are expecting that without warning we'll be switching to the new yellow shucking system. Understandably so. I had 8 million invested into flowers this morning that I quickly shucked and sold because I just didnt know for sure. Hopefully that clears up what I meant about how you announced it. As you know I am the one who complained about that in the card thread, so I really do appreciate that you're trying, it could just be done a little better :)
    Posted 90 days ago by Ramus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm just trying to save up for the next rare items.  Missed out on the yeti and don't want to miss out on whatever is next :)
    Posted 90 days ago by Reni's Mum Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Being told that yellow crumb shucking was being calculated incorrectly seemed like a pretty good official indication of what changes would be made. Yellow crumb would yield fewer seeds and thus would decline in value, whereas seeds would retain their value. On that basis I shucked my crumb.
    Posted 90 days ago by Mount Aspen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, I kind of agree that once yellow is nerfed, I will stop making PM3 potions with any regularity. 

    I think a better solution here is to introduce more game mechanics that are profitable, especially for players that have been around a long time, rather than hammer down every nail to be the same for a level 20 as it is for a level 50. 

    Whether players are aware or not, everything from energy to mood to iMG can be tied to a currant value, and while expenses increase as the game goes on, ways to make significant income pretty much plateau early on. 
    Posted 90 days ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
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