Topic

Nit in speed learning for skills that take longer to learn

Now that we have skills that take two weeks to learn (and I'll bet longer is coming), the donation mechanisms might need to be adjusted.

I started up Tinkering IV this afternoon, which is something like 12 days to learn now. And then set about donating to bring that time down. I don't mind that I have to donate lots and lots of favor points. Lots. The problem is the increments for doing so. Each "not quite 1000 favor points" speed up nets only about 2 hours of speed up. So to get 6 days of speedup (I think 50% seems to be max, though I'm not sure), I would have to get up to almost 1000 favor points 72 times? Gaaah!

I don't mind the "expense"... I mind the 1000-point increment. It was less annoying with shorter learning times and seems not well matched now.

I'm not sure the right way to address this, but it occurs to me that one possibility would be to increase the favor-till-token with each token you get. I assume that tokens might be actually useful for something in the future*, and this would probably help with whatever the dynamics are there as well.

*I have close to 200 tokens now, in bags in my house. When I have the patience, I do run through and contemplate each one. I don't often have the patience. But I know that they're useful for something already... just not terribly useful.

Posted 20 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • +1 Clare. I couldn't agree more.

    I worry about accumulating too much favor now, going over 1000 favor points is like a penalty because you end up with a useless emblem!
    Posted 20 months ago by en Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I could only speed up AK7 and Tinkering V by the 2+ hours from one shrine.  I wasn't sure if it was a bug or what cuz I could cut 5 or 6 hours from 3-4 shrines from much shorter skills.  [EDIT 2 days later: It maybe have had to do with switching skills, cuz I could cut Tinkering V with shrines today.  It may have also forgotten what shrines I used, not sure.]

    With tight skill management, you can keep all skills in the current skill table under 5 days.  12 days will be nothing in the real game considering that we'll have years.  But eventually skills could add up to months to learn no matter how you manage.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think that each secondary, tertiary (etc) token should take up more favor. So, 1000 for the first emblem, 2000 for the second, either 3000 or 4000 for the third, etc. After all, what is the point of having all these extra emblems? Is there a trophy for collecting 11 of each giant? It kinda looked that way in the wiki, but I'm not sure.
    Posted 20 months ago by Essie Kitten Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Haha yes to the penalty aspect of getting an emblem.

    And sounds like a bug, Tingly. I was definitely nibbling away at the hours just before the game closed this afternoon. (Just that with 12 days staring you down, it really did feel like nibbling, carefully donating so as not to get another emblem.)

    Oh that reminds me that an exacerbating annoying factor is that you can't donate as much of an item as you want... you have the fixed choices of how many. And that often means dropping stuff on the ground to donate optimally, and that's dangerous.
    Posted 20 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Huh, I'll have to check it out next test.  I'm hoping they have a shrine menu revamp coming.  The current one is pretty archaic compared to any menu elsewhere these days.  And the default should still be on 'take one,' not all.  I'd also like 'all' to be changed to put you as close to 999 as possible.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • FWIW: I have not encountered any trophies for having multiple copies of the same emblem. Just for having the set.
    Posted 20 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Word. I was going to suggest something about not getting emblems that you've already spent, unless there is a trophy for getting so many, as sc803 suggests.

    In the interest of giving us something to do in the game, I would be in favor of not limiting how much you can speed up learning, but maintaining a limited donation structure. 2.5 hours feels like nothing when you're working on a skill that takes 5 days, so it's not like anybody is going to breeze through the later skills. Maybe when you hit 1000, you are prompted to either collect another emblem or cash in to speed up.
    Posted 20 months ago by Lyndon B Johnson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd be thrilled if we could cash in emblems for a discounted 800 favor points.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd be thrilled if we could cash in emblems for a discounted 500 favor points. Half price isn't bad if it's always going to be 1000 to the next emblem. I think the whole favor point system needs to be adjusted. There are way too many extra emblems collecting dust because they're so easy to attain after the first ten levels. I've gotten 6 in the space of 15 minutes just by donating 4 bigger bags worth of mined goodies.
    Posted 20 months ago by Essie Kitten Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is it possible that owning the emblem might help in speeding up the learning for the skills relevant to that giant. Or giving it a daily 'rub' might give a few hours off the learning time?

    What happens when you spend an emblem - is it worth any xp? Maybe a spent emblem could mean discounts on learning time.
    Posted 20 months ago by mickey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Agreed. Also, and this may be a bug, certain skills won't let me speed them up to the full ammount. For instance, I tried speeding up Mining IV, and it only let me take off a few hours total before saying I am learning as fast as I can. The total time is a little over 2 weeks.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tofu Casserole Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the idea is to remove 2+ hours per shrine until you've removed half of the time or used all the shrines, whichever comes first.  That reminds me of another possible bug, I thought the primary shrine and secondary shrines removed the same amount of time, maybe even when I had to go to a 4th shrine.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the changes in times also came with some changes in the way donations a bit. At one point I was certain that I could only get 2 donations in before I got 'no more'. Then I noticed a third, but thought it was my mind playing tricks because I couldn't reproduce it on a second skill. Now I've noticed I can speed it up = to my BL skill before 'no more' and that after a delay in time, sometimes 'no more' goes away and I can speed it up again. However.... I also know I've been noticing these things while dev's have been making changes.

    To answer the question... yes there's a trophy... and achievements for earning 1, 5, 17, 47, and 151 Emblems:
    http://beta.glitch.com/achievements/338/
    http://beta.glitch.com/achievements/90/
    http://beta.glitch.com/achievements/276/
    http://beta.glitch.com/achievements/277/
    http://beta.glitch.com/achievements/278/
    http://beta.glitch.com/achievements/279/

    I agree there are some interface changes that would make donating easier. I also really like the idea of the Second Emblem of XYZ taking 2000 and the Third taking 3000... it would really add a new dimension to the game (I've reached a formula to my donations... A + B + C = I go donate to a shrine... kinda boring and methodical but effective) and get rid of our 'avoiding the emblem' challenges.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • These are good ideas — thank you :)

    We know something needs to get fixed here and we'll fix it! More suggestions welcome, but at least (i) emblems will be harder to get and (2) favor will be easier to direct to skill learning time increases. (Some of the higher level skills might require spending several emblems as well.)
    Posted 20 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have been thinking through this test that we really need to be able to type in how much of something to donate. 3  times i managed to go over yesterday while trying to reduce better learning v from 8 days.

    this option would also be good when using tools. Grinding is so irritating when you have 1000 of something and your options are 30 or all!
    Posted 20 months ago by Sherbert Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To answer the question... yes there's a trophy... and achievements for earning 1, 5, 17, 47, and 151 Emblems:

    Oh right! I forgot!


    And thanks, Stoot!
    Posted 20 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Are these two achievements the same but worded differently? Or am I totally misunderstanding #338?
    beta.glitch.com/achievement...
    beta.glitch.com/achievement...
    Posted 20 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been going deep on skills to pick off longer ones before the +5% really bites - my Mining 4 is only taking 6 days, and AK6 was 26 hours before lots of accel. I noticed that when you are doing long skills (AK6 and RHK this past weekend) and you've already sped up learning as fast as possible that you can't avoid getting emblems. 

    There are few quests (which themselves give favor) so XP comes mostly from donating and doing projects. So you can manage your favor a bit by careful donation, but then this is swamped by project and level rewards. I've frequently gone over favor limits on leveling up or completing a project while still having 10 hours left on a fully accelerated skill. 
    Posted 20 months ago by Catari Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mary... one is an achievement (a badge if you will), the other is a trophy for your shelf at home.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah. That makes sense. Thanks
    Posted 20 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I found am interesting exploit that I'm almost afraid to post here, for fear that it will go away, but caring is sharing. Anyhow, since the % increase seems to be a % of the REMAINING time, and not the base time (devs, please correct me if this is wrong), you can learn a bunch of skills till there are 5 minutes left, then switch, and the penalties won't be so huge, once you finish one of them. I've been trying it, and it seems to work, though I can't be sure, since the game doesn't tell you what penalties it's applying.
    Posted 20 months ago by Lord Tweedmouth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought about doing that, too, Lord Tweedmouth! I didn't have the patience. But if the oft spoken of "unlearn" is in the near future, y'all best believe I'll be restarting my skill tree and filling it back at close to the original times. Heh...
    Posted 20 months ago by Lyndon B Johnson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No matter what we do, there is still a lot of penalty that will be applied. daggum hierarchy
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tweed.... from every inch of data I've gathered, it seems that any and every modification made to a learning time is calculated using the unaltered base value for a given skill start time. If you look to speed up learning often enough, you'll catch it where even though you have 999 favor, it will only donate a portion of it. When I've taken the time to do the math, I've figured out that the full 999 would put me beyond my skill completion time. Once, and only once, it appeared to reduce the time to 0 or close enough that I finished the skill as soon as I clicked 'donate'.

    As for the other way pause can be exploited... by getting to your 'penalty threshold', pausing all of your skills at 5 min, and learning them rapid-fire.... doesn't appear to work. If the 5% would have translated to 30 minutes on your 10 hour skill, and you learned it down to 5 minutes hoping the increase would only be 1.5 minutes - wrong. It appears there's 35 minutes to learn on it the second you learn another skill.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Travinara - I know nothing about the learning speed-ups, but are you sure about the pause exploit?  I ground a 5-hour skill down to about 5 minutes, then finished another.  It didn't add the expected 15+ minutes, only a few minutes.
    Posted 20 months ago by Lord Tweedmouth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pretty sure. I tested it in a couple of cooking skills to get the formula right.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I find all of this skills-take-forever business very sad.  I have SO MUCH MORE FUN with higher-level skills than I do without them... I'd prefer to be able to learn a skill by performing some related task, like learning green thumb skills by tending enough trees, or learning an advanced cooking skill by cooking a number of dishes, the way we currently get badges.  Start out with basic skills which only take a little while to learn.  Use them, get enough badges, and get new skills.

    Right now I'm carrying 24 emblems, which I use for the mood/energy/xp boosts every (game)day.  People keep saying that it's tedious, but when your mood is full, a few seconds of clicking on 24 badges gives you +864 xp.  I don't know of any faster or easier way to gain xp.
    Posted 20 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink