Topic

SUGGESTED RULES FOR PLANTING

Edit: so the tree huggers everywhere took the title as an offense. I don't want to feel like I need to walk on eggshells here, but just so everyone knows: it was not the intention of the thread. I was merely suggesting a way for the tree lovers and the patch lovers to be able to coexist.

1) Do not plant bean trees. Ever.
2) Never plant near the projects. (Right now this means not planting in jethimadh or alakol)
3) Do not plant in every single patch of an area. Leave some empty patches between trees

Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • euh....hmm.... I like to cook and one dish contains 30 beans (chili)...so I need a lot of beans :-) So I think those trees can't be missed :-)
    Posted 19 months ago by Atlantis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Considering only like 2 dishes need beans, and they are pretty much useless otherwise... you can plant it in your home or in the meadows.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The rules of this game: there are no rules (outside of what's programmed).
    Posted 19 months ago by Johnny Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Rules of planting;

    1) Plant what you want to plant
    2) Plant where you want to plant

    Yaya, if you want patches, you are more than welcome to buy a house and not plant anything, in fact you can buy and sell houses just to gain access to the patches that come with each house. You can also poison trees to gain patches.

    I understand the the issue with projects, but why should a project take precedence over what other people want to accomplish in the game?

    I also understand the dislike of bean trees, I thought they were stupid for the longest time, until I learned to make Awesome Stew, which required 25 beans a pop, and now wish there were more bean trees.

    That was my long response. My short response is, don't tell people what to do in a game, it makes you a dick.
    Posted 19 months ago by Zaphod Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would poison, but then people start complaining and crying over them.

    It is pretty infuriating when you are working on a project that requires 150 loam and suddenly you find lvl 5 rookies planting bean trees in the only free patches near the projects.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Its just something to help people who are not familiarized with the game. Because then they plant their baby trees in project areas, we poison them, and they complain and cry over their lost tree.

    If we can agree to try and keep balance, then no poisoning would be necessary (or it would go down to a minimum) But this requires compromise on both parts.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A compromise only applies to the people who agree to it.  Making rules for how other people have to play the game is a futile effort. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am turned off by projects right now. Unfortunately though they are the main goal/quest of the game so players are drawn to them. But I don't understand the rush to complete them. And the complaints about gathering certain items making stress in game and the proposed rules. 

    I have turned to cooking and need beans, spice, etc. I wish the trees would revert to their previous life cycles, before they would die if not taken care of and at the end of a certain stage. That was changed so that trees couldn't die, but then had to for certain quests and for wood so they made the poison. Which lead to rare dirt patches and treeicide...

    So beta is the testing for balance and I am sure the developers will do their best. And I don't think rules are necessary.
    Posted 19 months ago by Suzy Spring Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What Zaphod said. Almost to the letter.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "But this requires compromise on both parts." - and what point are you compromising on, again?


    Here are better ideas for devs than players making up rules among themselves that cannot and should not be enforced and which have only led to massive whining, bitchiness or unsavory attitudes from both sides of the earth/tree issue:


    - Remove digging earth from tree patches.  Let patches be for tending patches, planting trees, and poisoning to thin out the population as needed.


    - Add digging earth to gardens, including community gardens.  Thus, if a patch has a plant in it, it's at the longest two hours (cabbages) to wait for the patch to cough up earth.  That means that players may actually need to (gasp) leave project areas to go get their earth, but it also means that this entirely divisive gameplay stops in favor of a more renewable game dynamic.  As it stands, most of the time I've been through the community gardens anyway, people aren't using them (they have their own set of silly in-game rules, too, but it's not as out of control as the tree/earth debacle).  So, given that they are underutilized and that crops have a far far far shorter lifespan than trees, let the garden patches cough up earth from now on.


    Alternately, just stick a huge massive pit in the middle of a few streets where people can just strip mine the hell out of earth.  Or build a huge earth pit street.  That might actually be amusing, because maybe if you dig that street too deeply, no one would be able to jump out of it, so you'd have to be clever about you dug it down. Yea, I like that idea even better than gardens coughing up earth.  Or maybe you could dig way way way down to reveal a hole that could transport you to another land. And if the street gets emptied of dirt, maybe it triggers a landslide that fills it back up again.  


    Anything to bring more adventure/strategy to the game, while reducing this on-going interpersonal angst about trees and earth, because this will never get resolved.  Even if everyone playing now agreed to whatever in-game rules people come up with, there will always be either miscreants who will not agree to in-game rules or newbies who won't know them, triggering yet another round of people yelling at each other in-game (why is that fun, again?) or starting yet another forum topic on the imbalance (why is that good again, compared to other possibilities?).



    Posted 19 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Rules of planting;

    1) Plant what you want to plant
    2) Plant where you want to plant"

    ^this

    So tired of other people telling me how to play.
    Posted 19 months ago by Btaylor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 zaphod and btaylor. Sometimes, yes, newbies will plant bean trees oblivious to the anguish it (apparently) causes. Follow those rules yourself, Yaya, but people won't like you making a thread with a list of rules you expect them to follow. The whole point of this game is that YOU shape the world, YOU decide how to play. This means, of course, that you can play how you want, but it also means that others do the same.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 zeeberk
    Posted 19 months ago by Peppercorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ROLFS @ people trying to make rules!!!!
    Posted 19 months ago by Joos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I had the pleasure of being told in game by Yaya what to do and what not to do and it pissed me off so much I went around planting more trees just out of spite. You don't get to tell me not to plant, especially when I still had my seedling quest to complete.

    Some of us find projects dull. and imperious orders to kowtow to the wishes of project fans don't really go over too well.
    Posted 19 months ago by Helcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1.999 joo's. Sums it up pretty well ;)
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just dont cry when we poison.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Don't cry when we plant where and what we want.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Don't cry when a bean passes through your nostril as you sneeze. 

    Whut. Don't mind me. Just passing through.
    Posted 19 months ago by C'Joni Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That, too. well put.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Don't cry when a bean passes through your nostril as you sneeze. "

    I have a story to tell about sneezing once whilst munching on a ham sandwich, but I guess this might not be the place...
    Posted 19 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This I gotta hear!
    Posted 19 months ago by Helcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Do tell. 
    Posted 19 months ago by C'Joni Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, there's not really that much to tell other that what you can deduce from my opening gambit. Let's just say, though, that once you've sat in the middle of an open-plan office pulling stringy bits of ham out of your nostrils, your co-workers will never look at you in quite the same way again. Ever.
    Posted 19 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Since I don't do the no-no, I rely on awesome stew and chili to keep me out of hell. Therefore I plant trees in every other dirt patch I run across. I like dirt and loam as much as everyone else but I like cultivating growing things too.
    And I really like sneezing beans but ham sandwich boogies sounds truly grody.
    Posted 19 months ago by Poney Tails Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Whew, as always there are many sides to the same issue; I understand YaYa you were trying to come up w/a compromise that you felt would decrease the animosity over whether to poison or not poison trees. As you can see, there are many views on this subject. I for one sometimes plant a seasoned bean when I come across a patch and other times I dig it for earth. I do wish there was an easier way to get earth, I like the ideas of using regular garden patches, but fear that it would be too easy to get earth. I kind of like the idea of patches randomly spawning in various locations. Kind of a hit or miss approach to make life interesting. If earth/loam were as easy to get as cherries it wouldn't be much fun.
    Posted 19 months ago by Gizmospooky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, I have to agree with what some of the others said. There have to be difficult items in the game to get. Loam is one of those items. It's okay. I went to an out of the way place today and killed a bunch of trees (hint: go to a street that no one would normally go to because it's not in a path), dug out some earth and loam, and sold it. I spent quite a while killing what felt like a billion cherry trees, building up my mood, etc.

    Honestly IMO we complete these quests way too fast and some people get really demanding. Like the guy yelling at me on the new streets channel demanding that I sell loam for less. Uh, no, I just spent 20 minutes making a frackton of drinks, buying poison, and killing 8 trees to get 6 pieces of loam. (I appreciated the other people on the channel who backed me up, and those who purchased it.)

    I'd really like to see these projects take a LOT longer so people don't get all aggressive on the chat channels about "We need loam NOW! And CHEAP!" It's totally ok with me to have items that take a while to get, like loam now.

    -E
    Posted 19 months ago by Mackenzie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jdawg was saying that we are completing the projects way too fast, so don't hold your breath on them making things necessary for projects easier to obtain--it looks like they're actually going to make them alot harder to complete in the future.
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "It is pretty infuriating when you are working on a project that requires 150 loam and suddenly you find lvl 5 rookies planting bean trees in the only free patches near the projects.Posted 8 hr ago by Yaya"
    Yaya I haven't met you inWorld so I'm assuming you're a fine person and good citizen 
    From your comments above and in your messages please be reminded that it will be newbies that make or break Glitch once it goes live...Finding fault with  is NOT the way to build community, nor is trying to "make rules on others." FInd a way to bring others to your ideas that is encouraging, inspiring and offers inclusion - and they will come. Find fault, be infuriating and they will not. 


    For me, what we're doing now is building community, more more than "projects" and taking agressive stands in beta might be very short-sighted.

    Posted 19 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I understand the the issue with projects, but why should a project take precedence over what other people want to accomplish in the game?"

    because the things people like to do in the game require space to be done in, and that space is created by projects.

    anyway, the project doesn't take absolute precedence or whatever. it merely asks for some compromise in the area immediately surrounding the project itself - and no where else.

    "Some of us find projects dull. and imperious orders to kowtow to the wishes of project fans don't really go over too well."

    you do know that all the spaces you have to do all the fascinating non-project things you like to do so much were built out as projects, right? : ]
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • it is common courtesy to respect the resource needs of the project workers around the project areas, and having a "i'll plant wherever i want whenever i want" is, well, dickish.

    in the same way that project workers poison deforesting the entirety of groddle forest would be, well, dickish.

    so i pretty much agree with yaya regarding the "rules", except to say that now that we have tree poison - however annoying it is to use - it shouldn't be *that* frustrating to see a level 5 planting stuff in a project area.

    leave notes to dissuade planting in the area, and nuke everything that gets planted anyway. a forum post with rules isn't so much the way to go about it as is repeatedly carpet bombing project areas with notes.

    in terms of features, please devs make it easier to duplicate notes. like on a little glitchy photocopier. it'd help communication a lot.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "please devs make it easier to duplicate notes"... I think that's currently called "copy-and-paste", striatic ;)
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm going to come at it from the same direction as Suzy Spring and Shepherdmoon. The devs are clearly looking for ways to tamp down the fervour currently surrounding projects, and I think that's a good thing.

    Right now, some project-builders clearly want the game world shaped in a way that facilitates the rattling-off of new streets, but doing so won't address the problems with that workrate, or the frustrations encountered by occasional contributors, such as collection quests rendered futile by committed project-builders' hoarding items or using auctions as a shortcut. 

    I understand the attraction of projects: they offer a kind of slot machine / scratch-card rush at the moment. But I think that's becoming a potentially unhealthy influence on the wider game, and I hope that if the devs come up with mechanisms to lessen the bish-bash-boshiness of the process, those changes are accepted graciously. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Holgate Subscriber! | Permalink
  • that's actually really time consuming, requiring lots of clicks especially because the notes don't respect pasted paragraph formatting.

    plus there's a real need to crank out notes at least five at a time to serve the purpose described above, since people snatch up those notes all the time and then forget to place them back.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I understand the attraction of projects: they offer a kind of slot machine / scratch-card rush at the moment."

    that's not the appeal at all. indeed the appeal of them for me is how unlike slot machine/scratch card they are compared to other aspects of the game.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As a FS refugee I can say that, in that game, I came to completely ignore the community projects.. for 2 reasons.  1) The hoarder/shark mentality of many players and the fact that I never found one that wasn't already almost full of whatever offered the best opportunity at a top prize.  Even just sitting around waiting for it to start, I was never fast enough to be in one of the top item categories.  I would hope the same kind of think doesn't happen here.  But I guess if it does, then I'll just stay away in Glitch as well and go my own way.
    Posted 19 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • hmm.. I did mean "thing" not "think" but maybe it fits.. LOL
    Posted 19 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i find that the people who *usually* complain about projects .. many but certainly not all .. are people who complain about not being able to donate and win percentage rewards.

    all this session there was plenty to do in terms of helping out the projects. certainly there was a large need for dirt and loam that persisted for long periods of time.

    thing is that a lot of the time loam was a secondary ingredient, not immediately donate-able. if you didn't care about getting a percentage reward it was easy to help out.

    the people i've noticed who really like projects are those who don't care for the rewards. indeed they *like* dropping off secondary ingredients for other people to compile into donate-able things because it is more communicative and fun than doing everything solo in order to score points, and feeling left out when you don't.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the appeal of them for me is how unlike slot machine/scratch card they are compared to other aspects of the game.

    Really? I'll cite an example: I saw how you directed another player to the meal vendor in the caverns to buy and then auction meals for a project in Alakol, because you said making them from scratch would take too long. 

    To me, that impatience comes across as gamblers' rush -- I'll differentiate, and call it "project fever", if you like -- and right now, the collective mindset coming out of New Streets and on the ground is to treat players as naive n00bz if they approach projects as quests rather than auction-driven logistics operations. Diehard contributors are increasingly reluctant to travel more than one or two streets away unless they're on a mission to dig patches; wannabe contributors either learn to loiter and beg in group chat, or leave it to the diehards.

    I'd like to see auctions taken out of the process, but that's programmatically difficult and easily gamed: loam is fungible.

    So I'm more inclined to agree with what zeeberk said in another thread: "All the projects seem to do anymore is to encourage widescale pillage and plunder."  It's a drastic change from the more relaxed pace and collaboration of earlier projects.
    Posted 19 months ago by Holgate Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, I do hope that was not personal as I do not "usually complain" about anything.  I could care less about prizes.  They were surely silly in FS in any case.  I think the idea of community projects is great if the "community" part is what's emphasized.  I am quite new here compared to you I know, but I was only expressing an opinion.  I think a great idea for community projects would be to have them with no personal reward at all.  That way, it would be truly a matter of community giving - making one's neighborhood or the world a better place for everyone.  Do you think that would work?
    Posted 19 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • im not sure where i stand on this topic, i think we should have only one tree per type on a street. like, one fruit, one bubble, one spice or something like that. say there is a fruit tree on a road, then u cant plant another fruit tree and so on. just wat i was thinking.
    Posted 19 months ago by ShadowOfThingsLost Subscriber! | Permalink
  • people who complain about not being able to donate and win percentage rewards...

    That sounds like you're accusing people of (squishing) sour grapes, which I think misses the mark: the rewards aren't so great compared to plenty of other activities you could carry out. 

    The problem from a gameplay perspective is that projects have essentially been professionalised and marginalised: they might be fun for you, but that fun doesn't extend as broadly as it used to. In earlier tests, you could wander through a specific region for items and bring them back, perhaps exploring streets that you hadn't visited before; now, people are generally racing against the clock even when they're supplying secondary ingredients, slapping them up on auction and tearing back for the work phase while supervisors dish out orders and locations. (You should vidcap an hour of intense projecteering and watch it back.)

    Ironically, I was reminded a bit of how projects used to feel a few days ago, when a few players independently stumbled upon West Spice reduced to dug-out patches (again) and decided collectively to replant it.
    Posted 19 months ago by Holgate Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm so new I missed that phase.. too late :\  Here's an idea..  Game players could sign up for projects, say a neighborhood park or some such, and be a part of building something.  No "financial" reward, just something to improve the world and a sense of satisfaction for having been a part of it...  Would anyone participate?
    Posted 19 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot commented in another topic that soon (i.e. eventually) there will be Group Halls that people can collaborate on in just that way. :D
    Posted 19 months ago by Jhennauchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • that's great, ty!
    Posted 19 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I spent a LOT of time at the Alakol projects and it was very much a community effort with people donating what was obviously hours worth of farming into communal piles to be made into blocks. A lot of people donated a lot of hooch and thousands of cherries to make those daiquiris too.

    As for the whole tree thing, people will do what they want to do.  I've written lots of polite notes asking people to please keep certain patches free for project work.  And of course, come back to bubble trees (this is Alakol, of course) and notes saying "You're not the boss of me, I can plant wherever I want" or ASCII art. And it's not a big deal. It's a big community, room for all sorts. I will still go on killing trees where I see fit and others will plant as they see fit. We all choose how we want to spend our on-line lives.
    Posted 19 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I spent most of my in game time this sesh in Akakol, cooking for the block makers (well, not literally, I meant people who were operating the makers for us civilians who don't have the skill/ permits but coughed up a helluva lots of food, drinks, loam, earth and peat and want to contribute a bunch of blocks) We worked so whoever contributes to earth loam and stuff get a couple of blocks. We normally have a few makers, a couple of gatherers on patch-sitting duty, a chef and everyone else who dumps in everything but blocks on projects. I find it effective, especially if there's 2 people by a patch and we dig at the same time. Effective.
    Well, I found everywhere near in Akakol, and Yeoman's Bluff, was devoid of trees. So, patch gathering made easy. I don't see what are you complaining about. If a team harvests a patch together, you get 6 times the number of people gathering earth/ loam.
    Posted 19 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are no more dirt parties as of the latest test. At least I couldn't use patches at the same time someone else was... kept getting "The patch is already being used by someone else".

    And, yeah, Alakol and Yeoman's bluff were clear of trees, but that was because a bunch of us were killing them all the time.  I spent thousands of currants on tree poison myself this last test and I'm sure there must have been others who dumped similar amounts of poison around bumping off all the bubble trees and egg plants.
    Posted 19 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "To me, that impatience comes across as gamblers' rush"

    It is indeed the opposite of gambler's rush. there is absolutely no chance involved and the procedure goes entirely according to plan. it's a social activity and non-competitive.

    .. and unlike collecting and making the stuff yourself, the plan required coordination and cooperation. it would be impossible to do with only one person.

    i also worked on alakol projects and people were sharing blockmarkers, just dropping ingredients in front of it with no thought to getting a reward. i couldn't see any one of these players - and there were many - getting into a huff about other people donating before they could.

    i think there was more community on the alakol projects than i'd seen in a long time, powered mostly by the communal nature of the block maker.

    relax. there's no need to worry about people donating stuff before you can. there is almost always *some* choke point that requires a lot of labour to push through. help with that.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree--the projects have become much more community-oriented and cooperative since blocks have been required for them. There are only a few people that know how to make them, and they require very large quantities of rare resources, so one person can't possibly monopolize them. The same is true, to a lesser extend, of other complicated items to make, like high-level drinks and food. The whole thing has made me very proud of certain people's ability to come together in an organized way, and it has renewed my interest in the process of contributing to projects.

    The items that can be gathered easily alone fill up fast as usual, but I have a feeling that will change next test when the devs drastically increase the number of items required (they have told us that the projects are being completed way too fast, even when blocks are involved).

    In regards to the dirt scarcity, when someone complained to a dev that it would take a long time to get dirt for the tower project because there aren't many patches, he said "well, that's the challenge, isn't it". Sooo... I think they are perfectly happy with the way things are because it makes it more challenging for the players. If it's too easy, people will get bored and stop playing.
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
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