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#### (sighs) Really people?

Look. You want to go around being a general dick and poisoning all the trees in UR, fine. Whatever.
But to go on one of the routes a group of us *set up* to help other glitches and poison and replant all of the wood trees as something else, such as bean trees? Not cool. Not amusing and not really fun for any of us.
This isn't about setting something out and having people take it. This is about a group of players who are helping in a resource route, who have people coming through and destroying their trees, and then replanting others - today, apparently within a span of 20 - 40 minutes, a bunch of the people on the wood tree route had their trees completely destroyed/poisoned/killed and replanted - mine were bean trees. - JUST the wood route, as far as we could tell in Global.
I can see if you accidentally kill a tree. It might happen. BUT several along the very same route at the very same time?
Why would anyone want to help out anyone else if that's what's going to happen?
I know there will always be the set of jerks who want to make the game less fun for everyone else because they can, but honestly, some of us are setting ourselves out there and making our routes easier to find to try and help others.
IT just leaves me with a poor taste in my mouth.

Posted 8 months ago by Synnia | Permalink

### Replies

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- As mentioned before, this achievement here might (might!) add to the trouble:
  http://www.glitch.com/achievements/paul-bunions/
  There are lots of Glitch players who feel bored at the moment, and thus trying to achieve as many badges as possible. And, frankly, a "tree route" is obviously the best way to find as many trees as possible to kill and clear. (Just as it is the best way to find trees to harvest).
  Maybe the devs could think about killing the badge completely (and thereby also taking it away from those who achieved it already, as to not create any badge-rush ("I want to get it before it gets taken away!"). That would, of course, not solve the problem of people just having fun to create confusion and havoc, but it would at least take one incentive away to kill trees.
  Posted 8 months ago by Louis Louisson | Permalink
- I"m pretty sure the wood trees don't count toward Paul Bunions. (You just harvest + clear them - no killing, so they're never dead..)
  Posted 8 months ago by oscarette | Permalink
- Poisoning is part of the game and needed for some quests. Then again, wood is needed for quests too!
  Solution? Spread the Wood!
  I continue to wander the world looking for streets with 4 or more trees, and planting a wood tree there. And to all those who do the same, good for you!
  Posted 8 months ago by WallyMcBeal | Permalink
- paul bunions is really not a problem. There are plenty of housing areas that have multiple trees and very few inhabitants. The badge can be pursued there with almost no impact on anyone.
  Posted 8 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- The Paul Bunions badge doesn't work with wood trees--it has to be another dead tree, like a fruit or egg tree. A "dead" wood tree does not exist, poisoning a wood tree leaves you with a patch and 25 planks. That isn't an excuse for killing the wood trees.
  Posted 8 months ago by King Jay | Permalink
- Apologies in advance for the wall o' text: Skip to TL;DR below if it's just all too much.
  I believe what we're seeing here, independent of ethical questions, is a direct reflection of Richard Bartle's conclusions about player types in MMOs.
  Glitch is primarily about achievement, socializing and exploring; griefing is actually difficult to do, other than:
  a) Being a hoover (grab all the things).
  b) Landscape "designer" (kill all the trees).
  c) Public harvest interruptor (fixed with time delay).
  d) Betrayer (hoover with confidence selling ability; IE, you were trusted to be admitted into another's private space...and now you're running off with their prized cubimal/emblems/etc.)
  e) Harrassment/Stalking/General dickery (usually banned by TOS).
  f) I'm sure there's more...but this is a good working list. I'm not counting splanking/soaking/sparkle/sneezing powder, because I regard those as inconveniences or departures from accepted etiquette.
  As Glitch moves out of Beta, we know from Bartle that all it takes to drive away social players is an increase in "Clubs," ie, players who use the mechanics to inconvenience or cause distress to other players. This also impacts achievers ("Diamonds") because the Club provides an obstacle to an achievement (IE, I was using that tree! Yes, that's why it is dead!). It also impacts the "Hearts", ie, social players, in this way: "I left that as a gift! "Yes, a gift for me!" And many other ways.
  I think TS has been wise to minimize the game mechanics that empower this player type. Albeit not absolutely. They realize that all player types must be held in a kind of equilibrium.
  Here's some supporting quotes (Science!) from the Bartle paper, cited above:
  ...
  "So, labelling the four player types abstracted, we get: achievers, explorers, socialisers and killers. An easy way to remember these is to consider suits in a conventional pack of cards: achievers are Diamonds (they're always seeking treasure); explorers are Spades (they dig around for information); socialisers are Hearts (they empathise with other players); killers are Clubs (they hit people with them)."
  ...
  "It can be seen that the numbers of killers and achievers is basically an equilibrium: increasing the number of achievers will increase the number of killers, which will in turn dampen down the increase in the number of achievers and thereby reduce the number of excess killers.
  "The explorer population is almost inert: only huge numbers of killers will reduce it. It should be noted, however, that massively increasing the number of explorers is the only way to reduce the number of killers without also reducing the player numbers in other groups. Because increasing the number of explorers in a MUD generally encourages others to join (and non-explorers to experiment with exploration), this gives a positive feedback which will eventually reduce the killer population (although recall the earlier point concerning how few people are, by nature, explorers).
  "The most volatile group of people is that of the socialisers. Not only is it highly sensitive to the number of killers, but it has both positive and negative feedback on itself, which amplifies any changes. An increase in the number of socialisers will lead to yet more socialisers, but it will also increase the number of killers; this, in turn, will reduce the number of socialisers drastically, which will feed back into a yet greater reduction. It is possible for new socialisers to arrive in large enough quantities for a downward spiral in numbers not to be inevitable, but it is unlikely that such a system could remain viable in over a long period of time."
  TL;DR: TS needs to continue to foster the fragile social community, while also limiting the excesses of achievers; explorers are relatively inert but as the world gets larger there will always be more of us - we are engines of virality; and finally needs to put into place game mechanics which continue to LIMIT griefing, while not eliminating it entirely.
  Reckon Stoot has this in mind already.
  Posted 8 months ago by CrashTestPilot | Permalink
- When no one is around, or everyone is too busy crafting, I can't be a Heart. And I've been a Spade for so long that sometimes I run out of things to explore, and thus I'm forced to become a Club. After clubbing enough trees, maybe I'll get a cool achievement and thus become a Diamond. :) But seriously...
  Why I poison:
  I poison trees because it is something to do. It is a way to interact with the landscape and my metabolics. Poisoning really hurts my mood, which is a stat that rarely gets low in this game, so it is a totally new problem to deal with. I finally get to use all my butterfly milk for something, and actually NEEDING to drink a cocktail can be a rare pleasure! Also I really like making potions and tinctures for some reason, and this is a way for me to spend some of them doing something. I do make rainbows, sparkles, sneezes, doors and stuff when people are around, but so many streets are lonely, so I resort to others activities, like poison. I also see so many trees in this game, and am never short of resources, so I don't see the harm in it. And earth is rare, and you get that from digging a plot. Also I get to plant different trees, and make the landscape more diverse and pretty, enough of these bean monocultures! I like over-petting saplings.
  But maybe I should admit, that one other motivating factor in my poisoning is probably that it does get a rise out of you glitchians. It is not that I like making people sad/mad, but its just that I feel you shouldn't be upset over this. Don't be so silly, there are thousands of trees, this is just a game, and don't you look for things in this world to fix and alter. Surmounting obsticales is what games are about. How boring it would be if all you had to do to make a stack of Awesome Stew is run down a couple streets in a row of pure beans harvesting harvesting harvesting. But after I poison, your mindless clicking and H keys pause as you stumble up to a weird tree, or an empty plot. And now you get to do something about it! FUN! I'm giving you and me an opportunity to do something besides "harvest, harvest, harvest!"
  I didn't read all the comments on this forum, but one anti-poisoner said they felt a great sense of community, and had a bunch of social fun repairing the decimation left behind by a poisoner. Well that is awesome! What is to hate!? Maybe it is that emotion that poisoners give you, that keeps you playing.
  Posted 8 months ago by Listo | Permalink
- Who cares? Replant, its just a bunch of pixels.
  Posted 8 months ago by daniel5457 | Permalink
- Listo you really needed to read the thread. Poisoning around Ur, A-ok. Poisoning a home street, consecutive home streets...a bit dubious. You're right there are stacks of trees around Ur (in and amongst the many lands) so why do people need to resort to coming out of Ur and targeting the 2 trees we choose to put outside of our front door step?
  (going to bed...to dream of choccy bunnies) : ) : ) : )
  Posted 8 months ago by ~Arabesque~ | Permalink
- Is it really that hard to use a bean seasoner and season another bean to plant?
  Posted 8 months ago by daniel5457 | Permalink
- Daniel, is it really that hard to poison the trees on your own front yard? :o)
  Posted 8 months ago by ~Arabesque~ | Permalink
- If your trees get poisoned in RL thats not ok. If poisoned in game, just move on, its just a bunch of pixels. Replant. But its not real life is it? It's just a bunch of pixels!!!!!
  Posted 8 months ago by daniel5457 | Permalink
- Yeah Daniel you speak the truth but one has to wonder why folk would nip over to their neigbours pixelated yard and kill their neighbours pixelated trees rather than kill their own pixelated trees. Makes no difference whether it's real life or Glitch life : ) Would be nice if they would just move on...or even better, stay in their own pixelated yards hehehehehehe
  For the record too, I have no qualms about poisoning trees on the streets of Ur (the world streets, not the home streets) ...and !!!!!! those exclamation marks are just for you Dan...!!!!! do they make the point any stronger for you?? : )
  *Edit*..I apologise for the bump folks....but I was in toooo good a mood to not reply : ) Still buzzed from the choccy egg fever!!
  Posted 8 months ago by ~Arabesque~ | Permalink
- I'm really happy about Listo's post in that it offers a classic profile of a Club.
  They're bored. They want to get a rise out of people.
  I could write a paper based on Listo's post.
  The downside is that Clubs rarely post, so there's less to make a body of work out of.
  So fascinating.
  Posted 8 months ago by CrashTestPilot | Permalink
- As long as you don't poison an egg tree, ( if you can ) i'm perfectly fine with it. Egg trees are the one thing you can't replant so poisoning that would be an actual disappointment. Honestly, i don't care if you go and poison all those trees, because i all i do is run around glitch all day harvesting random trees anyway, just to collect supplies of every kind for the future times of glitch when i really need them. So out to you poisoners, if you are going to poison some trees, don't start a group and everything just to make people mad or anything like that. Secondly, don't poison trees on a glitchen-made route because everybody worked hard on it and its not that its hard to replant the trees, its just that it takes time for them to grow or lots of mining to instantly grow them and it's a pain to those who like to use resource routes like that. Like Listo said, its like a bump in your life and you have to get through it so that the game isn't just super easy and if you are going to be a club do it wisely not to annoy and anger people, but to actually make the game more fun for them. Great post Listo. All in all, everybody should have some sort of challenge and this game isn't too difficult, you need a challenge other than leveling up and gaining a few currants. Spend time on glitch and enjoy it even more than you did before! I'm sure you will have a lot more fun.
  I know this is off topic but, why can't we plant an egg plant? i really need a few on my street or in my house because it takes me forever to find streets with egg plants other than northwest passage and about 4 other streets in that area. Eggs also go for like 10 currants each on the auctions which is just ridiculous, seeing as you get 12 per harvest and 24 per tree, more with a super harvest, up to 48 per tree. You could make 480 currants per tree with around 100 trees in the game. So how about egg plant seeds to make eggs more attainable on a regular basis? Or maybe hens? That would be nice, i already posted hens as an idea on the forums and it got no attention what so ever... i guess i just suck at thinking up ideas. Wow i'm rambling a lot. Well anyway, have a nice day everybody. Have fun on glitch! Bye!
  Posted 8 months ago by Dr.CookieEater | Permalink
- http://www.glitch.com/items/egg-plant-bean/
  Posted 8 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom | Permalink
- http://zoggish.appspot.com/find-egg-plant/
  Posted 8 months ago by WeavingTheWeb | Permalink
- Someone has been going around and poisoning egg plant trees. I know because I was splanked and mooned and otherwise harassed while replanting them so that they'd be available for the egg hunts. People apparently assumed that the one repairing the damage must be the same one that did the damage, proving that even in Glitch, no good deed goes unpunished.
  Posted 8 months ago by KhaKhonsu | Permalink
- Yeah I noticed a few dead last night so replanted them. It's possibly accidental poisoning though. That happens to me a lot if I'm rushing through a street and I hit return too quickly.
  Posted 8 months ago by ~Arabesque~ | Permalink
- Dr.CookieEater, you can plant egg plants but only in dark patches.
  This is an MMO and there will be Bartle clubs no matter what we do. The more threads like this that get started, and the more you complain about it, the more interesting the clubs find tree-poisoning. You just have to shrug it off, plant a bean, and keep right on going.
  Posted 8 months ago by Lucille Ball | Permalink
- If I want to poison a tree, i'll do so in the privacy of my own back yard.
  Posted 8 months ago by Jerry Garcia | Permalink
- Sticks and stones will break my bones, but video games cant hurt me.
  Posted 8 months ago by Litenup | Permalink
- As much as I am against griefing, I shall tell you that I have wasted rather a lot of antidote through the inadvertent act of poisoning trees whilst spamming them for harvests.
  Dreadful, really.
  And shall I say? Not cricket.
  (pinky out, tea-sip.)
  And now, back to the matter of the colonies....
  Posted 8 months ago by CrashTestPilot | Permalink

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