Topic

Also new Teleportation Skills

Like the Unlearn skills they don't look quite finished yet (zero time to learn and no requirements or affiliations). However, looks like new destinations, much reduced cool downs and the uber-cool sounding "Summon" ability...

Posted 19 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

Previous 1 2 3
  • shhhhh you're suppose to only look at these with your eyes closed. ;)

    quote :- Uh, those weren't supposed to be visible yet. So … please don't look at them!
    Posted 2 hr ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
    Posted 19 months ago by Faereluth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My lips are sealed..............
    Posted 19 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • my eyes are closed :)
    Posted 19 months ago by riscy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can't see. I can't talk. I can't think. I can't learn.

    Can't wait until the next test! :D
    Posted 19 months ago by daniel5457 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, I know what I'm going to be learning as soon as it becomes available! Oops, I looked...
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Where did you read that Faereluth?
    Posted 19 months ago by James Backstab Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @James, go to the skills page and hover over the new Teleportaion skills.  They haven't added the actual requirements yet though.  Very cool addition.
    Posted 19 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I mean stoot's quote thanks though
    Posted 19 months ago by James Backstab Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's the link to stoot's quote
    beta.glitch.com/forum/gener...
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • :o  very perceptive!

    I am waiting to finish up learning Better Learning V ~ only 3 days and 19 hours left  ((LOL))
    Posted 19 months ago by Sayuri Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Only 1hr 52mins for BL V here.....  can't remember how much time I had left on Mining IV though, so no idea what difference I can expect there...
    Posted 19 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The moment the game reopens, we will hear the sound of hundreds of people clicking "Learn Teleportation II."
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's very cool, but, ummm - how useful are the "teleportation tokens" that are a perk for subscribers going to be now?
    Posted 19 months ago by Tradescantia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Tradescantia - it would seem the tokens would be much less valuable.

    however, as the total size of the world increases, the teleportation tokens should become increasingly valuable.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tradescantia--hard to know until they're implemented. But considering that it's 50 tokens per month of subscription, they seem pretty neat. In theory.
    Posted 19 months ago by ingrid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was about to say what striatic said.
    Say I have Teleportation IV.
    I would most like want to keep one Teleportation Slot dedicated to my home with the two other spots as floaters.
    I notice that a project has opened up somewhere. I teleport there using the map. Boom. I use one Slot there. I see that the projects needs a mess of fireflies so I use map teleportation again to a good firefly area. And I use the other slot on that space because I only have so many jars. I can now pop back and forth (baring cool down and a coast of 20% of my max energy capacity per jump (if I'm reading the current description correctly)). I have also used up BOTH my map teleportations that game day and all of my slots.
    BUT WAIT! The next phase of the project needs a mess of guano! Ack! So I use a token to map jump.
    And if I have Teleportation V, I can use Teleport Others + tokens to bring 5 friends to help out.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hey Tradescantia, that was my first thought as well.

    In looking back, here's what Stewart said

    You won't ever have to pay to teleport — in fact, we will soon be adding levels II and III of the Teleportation skill, so you can save more specific points.
    What we'll be adding is the ability to teleport to any arbitrary location in the game at any time, via the location pages, the map (and maybe some other means). You will also be able to do this for free, but it will take some amount of real world time to get there. During that time, you'll be able to chat, but not do other stuff in the game.

    Or, you can spend a token to make that teleport instant as well. The number of times you can do this per day will be limited (and there will be a "cooldown" period after each use) so people with a lot of credits to spend won't have an unlimited advantage in getting around."

    So, that's the difference between the skill set and the token - the token is immediate teleport and to any arbitrary location.  I bet I could simulate that simply by setting up a teleport piggy back (as we have been doing) with some random player in game, so I'm not really sure how valuable those tokens really really really are.

    I'm seeing now what striatic was getting at when he said that we just don't have enough information to make a rational decision about whether to buy subscriptions or not since we haven't seen either teleportation tokens or the teleportation skill set in action  It really really really feels like more communication from staff right now would be best - clear, explicit statements about how paid and unpaid features differ and what they are, not just telling us to wait and see cuz it'll be cool.  I suspect they believe that they are being clear based on staff's defensive responses in the subscriptions-about-to-expire topic, but I'm just reading player confusion (or assumptions) in a lot of topics lately.

    I'll be frank, I bellied up for a sub today based on the value that playing as a tester has given me the past so many months. I had fun; it's worth it to me to send that appreciation by way of a subscription.  But if I'd had no relationship with some of the staff to be invested in their success or had just stumbled upon this game from nowhere, I can't really justify the price of a subscription at all and would be surprised if I re-up at the highest level when it expires.  

    Right now, we have no idea how referendum votes will work (can we please vote on which bugs get prioritized? Because I'm kinda concerned about that rather annoying end-of-project bug that's been out there for months, one which causes an energy drain to the player), we still haven't seen teleportation tokens or skills above 1 in action, and while I have bought many an article of clothing because they're hip, it wouldn't kill me to have a basic looking character (or house, for when we get house upgrades).  

    I somewhat applaud the devs strict decisions to not hinder gameplay by charging for it, but I'm really not getting the value of a sub besides saying thanks to the devs!  That feels like a weak business plan to me (but I do acknowledge that staff has way way way more collective online biz experience than I and that they may be onto something that I just can't see).
    Posted 19 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It'd be interesting to know whether tokens can be used prior to learning any Teleportation skills, or to tp to an arbitrary location prior to learning T4. If so, or if T2-T5 are prohibitively long to learn, a subscription (or at least the tokens) would have more value immediately after the last reset, but likely become less valuable as time goes on.

    It could potentially allow you to focus on non-teleportation skills in the beginning and avoid the associated learning penalties, while still having tp capabilities. Although 50 tokens isn't much. If I had a subscription, I'd probably be stockpiling the tokens. On the flipside, if I had 50 or 100 tokens after the reset, I'd want to be able to use them without having to wait days/weeks to be able to tp to an arbitrary location and get full value out of the tokens.

    It wouldn't appear to be the case given the description from stoot, but it's not that clear either way. Hmm.
    Posted 19 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Looking at the details of the teleportation skills, it looks like the energy requirements (-50 energy right now) will change.
    T2 says "33% of energy capacity"
    T3 "25% of energy capacity"
    T4 "20% of energy capacity"
    T5 "15% of energy capacity"
    I bet that each teleport will cost more than 50 energy when we open up tomorrow.
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zeeberk, re "It really really really feels like more communication from staff right now would be best - clear, explicit statements about how paid and unpaid features differ."

    Assuming that you get that some options (clothing items, facial features, colors, etc.) are only available for subscribers and how credits work, what needs to be clarified? Teleportation Token rules and how votes will work? I'd like to answer, but I'm not sure what information is missing.
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mary - I noticed that last night too, and left a comment, then stoot said we didn't see anything.... so I've decided to wait and see how it works. At those rates, each teleport is going to cost me 1,100 energy to start, and I'll only ever get that down to 330 energy..... so I'm hoping there's some super-secret sanity check, or that the descriptions aren't quite perfect yet. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • MaryLiLamb touched on my first question: if T2 _reduces_ cost to 33% of energy capacity, is T1 now going to cost 50% of energy capacity?!  If so, after the next reset, I will try to level up as slowly as possible!  At level 36, 33% of my energy would be 416.66 points.

    What are teleportation scripts?

    Do teleportation tokens only allow you to summon other players to you?  Are they only useful to people who have learned T5?

    Has the "instantaneous teleport via token use, takes-a-while teleport without token use" idea been scrapped?  If not, how long will a non-token teleport take?
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No doubt there is more changing and tweaking but teleportation cost as a percentage instead of a flat rate would equalize the playing field. A level 40 doesn't have to think twice about the 50 energy that a level 10 would have to but 33% is a huge chunk for anyone. This would also keep the value of teleporation tokens up as I assume that spending a token would not cost any energy.
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with MaryLilLamb. % of capacity costs make sense for balance.
    If you have at level with max 500 energy and teleport (assuming the 50%), you come out the other end with 250. If your max is 1000, you end up with 500. You still have twice as much as... you just also spent twice as much.

    50 energy is NOTHING at higher levels. And now that teleportation is getting much more useful and powerful it should be balanced out.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What doesn't make sense is teleporting costing you incrementally more as you gain more experience. 

    Each time you level the teleport will cost more, and more, and more... so it seems the reasons for the change are a) the 50% was the original design intent and we've been getting lucky so far, and/or b) to slow the older players down... it does absolutely nothing to 'level' the playing field, rather it creates yet another imbalance (and a good reason to abandon it as a skill later). Talk about de-motivation. Why in the world would I bother with something that's gonna cost me over 1000 energy, to do anything, ever. Feels more like penalizing progression than game balancing.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You can look at it two ways. It costs each xp level a differing amount of energy but it costs each skill level the same amount in percentage. It behooves you to increase your skill level so that your cost per teleport decreases. Your xp level does nothing to change your cost.
    At level 35, I have 1200 energy.
    If I had T2, it would cost 396 energy
    T3, 300 energy
    T4, 240 energy
    T5, 180 energy
    Why wouldn't I want to increase my teleportation skill level? Your cost savings from T2 to T5 is 18%, no matter what your XP level is.
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Percentage is fine, but these are enormous, un-fun percentages. 
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mary - if the calcualtion is on % of capacity, the cost per teleport will increase each and every time you level... 
    50% of capacity at level 50 is 1000 energy, at level 51 that's 1,100 energy.
    33% of capacity is 667 energy, at level 51 that's 733 energy
    25% is 500 at level 50, and 550 at level 51
    15% is 300 at level 50, and 330 at level 51.
    Those values will only continue to perpetually go UP... so the best I can ever expect is over 300 energy to get from point A to home.

    If the calcultion is a % capacity - your XP Level will have absolutely everything to do with it.
    Even at the highest teleport level, once you reach a certain XP level there's no point in teleporting - walking will always make more sense. It also means I won't be hitching a lift with anyone, or teleporting anyone anywhere - at those costs the social/sharing benefit is totally gone.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'll probably be bemoaning the percentages and longing for a good no-no hit, but right now I like it that some of the ease (of anything) is being removed in favor of more interesting trade offs.

    And this seems like a reasonable way to do it, so that lower level players--and we'll all be lower level again, soonish--don't feel it disproportionately.
    Posted 19 months ago by ingrid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • At level 38, energy so so so rarely is any sort of issue for me. Maybe that is why I like this change, even at these levels. Energy and mood have basically been removed from game play at the high levels so I LIKE that it will be a concern. To me, that is not un-fun. Just means I have to think a bit more about teleporting (especially with all of the teleport options available).

    I was originally concerned that teleportation was going to make projects over way too quickly. Heck, I stock pile stuff at home. If I can set a point at home and a point at the project... and if I DIDN'T have to worry about energy....

    As for it being a disincentive to leveling up... there are certainly plenty of other reasons. Okay, just one: every activity besides teleporting.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (Note to all: the percentages you're quoting are a bit out of date — they were lowered a bit already (33% down to 10%) and will work with the new %s when launched.)

    glum pudding:
    What are teleportation scripts? • You'll soon find out.

    Do teleportation tokens only allow you to summon other players to you?  Are they only useful to people who have learned T5? • No, they can be used by anyone, regardless of skill level.

    Has the "instantaneous teleport via token use, takes-a-while teleport without token use" idea been scrapped? • No.

    If not, how long will a non-token teleport take? • This hasn't been decided yet and whatever we do first will almost certainly change as a result of seeing what it "feels" like.
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So we want people to go away once they get to a higher level? So it's okay to have them feel things disproportionately? Is Glitch really gonna be about all the cool up front, but we'll penalize the crap out of you for continuing to play so that in time you've nothing to do but sit and talk in chat? And I'm not buying the whole 'there will be a reset' because this is the last one... we'll *also* all be higher level again soon and not be able to say 'we're gonna restart', so what's the answer then?
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I meant that I wouldn't want to increase my general level, since I'll have to procure much more food in order to teleport anywhere.  As Travinara said, it's sort of like a punishment for levelling up: the more total energy you have, the more it costs to teleport, even though the percentages remain the same.

    ETA: I'm glad that the percentages are lower than they appear.
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Trav, yes, the cost increases at every XP level. That is why I think it levels the playing field. A XP level 50 T1 does not get more out of teleportation than a XP level 5 T1. It's expensive for everyone. Your skill level is the only thing that will bring the cost down. Walking will always cost the least. Getting T5 will bring down the cost.

    eta, Just saw stoot's post. It's all debate points anyway until we see it in action.
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Trav, I think we view it just very differently.

    What has the most impact on me is not the COST but how much I have left after teleporting. So if I enjoy playing when I have 250 energy after teleporting, I will enjoy playing if I have 750 after teleporting. 

    And 10% cost at Teleport II (according to above stoot comment (if I read that right)... which, as always, is subject to change), means my current cost would be 130, give or take... completely negligible change over 50 for me.

    Edit: Yes. All hypothetical. These conversations interest me anyway, not because I am trying to change minds but because I love hearing the thought processes of others.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let's try posing the math this way...
    If someone with Animal Kinship 2 visits a street with 50 pigs - they could potentially wind up with ~150 meats or 1500 energy. (will cost em around 600 energy to obtain for a net gain of 900)
    For a Level 10 @ 230 energy capacity, that's ~ 8 teleports
    For a Level 50 @ 2060 energy capacity, that's ~ 1 teleport

    If someone with Animal Kinship 7 visits the same street - they could potentially wind up with 1500 meats or 15,000 energy. (will cost them around 800 energy to obtain for a net gain of 14,200)
    For a Level 20 @ 520 energy capacity, that's ~54 teleports
    For a Level 30 @ 950 energy capacity, that's ~30 teleports
    For a Level 55 @ 2480 energy capacity, that's ~11 teleports
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, I thank you for the responses, but I have to giggle at them, given that we're trying to elicit clear explanations.  What I can gather is that I will be doing a lot of walking and train riding from now on.
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That seems about right to me — the level 50 of 55 player will also have more skills and an easier time making money/energy along with more accumulated wealth.
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Trav, yes. That seems right. Again for me it is not the amount of energy spent but what I have left. So, sure, I have to load up on stews and prep more. But it is a lot easier for me to do that. So it doesn't bother me. Changes my strategy, sure. But also means that teleportation never becomes "routine."

    Just a different outlook at the situation.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yep, they did say they were going to make cooking more attractive... :)
    Posted 19 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So fair = having to work 5x harder than someone with equal skills because I'm older? Or does fair = having to learn 5 skills to be on equal footing because I'm older? 

    My level has nothing to do with gathering resources and doesn't increase my bonus, but it does increase the teleport penalty? Seriously, I might agree if the resource generating had some sort of XP level tie-in, but it doesn't... only the output does, therefore it's only a penalty to those who wish to progress in XP. I can easily learn a boatload of skills without raising my level.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I totally get what you're saying. For me it is less about fair than balance, especially on the whole (not just teleportation). And since there are OTHER bonuses to learning higher levels of Teleportation, it does not feel cut and dried to me.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • technically you need 8 skills to be able to use the awesome pot!  but you can buy food too.  it seems like a decent balance to me.
    Posted 19 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok so I take my AK7 and my Tele5 and the cost to me is 10%.... that's 24 teleports, with 6 places to go (3 slots + 3 insta ports, if you discount the unimplemented tokens)... it's 'even' as far as work/use energy output goes, and the skills have a reason for spending hours learning them... and then the Level 20 learns Tele2 and the balance is way off again.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Level does have something to do with gathering resources--higher level players have had the opportunity to learn more skills. The skills a player pursues affect resource gathering. You can use those skills directly to affect your energy--say by turning into a mining/grinding/sniffing fiend, by cooking, by gardening, by harvesting from animals or trees.

    Or you can use those skills to sell stuff to vendors or auctions to make currants and then purchase food.

    It's interesting how you see it as "more energy lost" and I see it (like Bacon-O) as a function of what I have left to work with.

    For that matter, I don't see it as a penalty, more as insurance against boredom--if things were the same and constantly so accessible at higher levels, I'd drift off. I'd just dig into one or two aspects of the glitchiverse, because I could say, teleport between my favorite spots mindlessly. Until (for my brainspace, anyway) they became less appealing.

    I read it as interest-insurance.
    Posted 19 months ago by ingrid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not sure how my examples were unclear.... talking the same skills, same street, same number of pigs, same amount of time/energy spent resource gathering. The *only* difference is the level. 500 energy used is 500 energy used, and regardless of the level you spend the same amount of energy on the pet/nibble with the same skill level. 

    It's not like I'm getting an extra bonus when gathering because of my level, just an extra negative when teleporting. It's gonna cost me the same energy to collect the ingredients to make Awesome Stew as it will anyone with equivalent skills... however, it's going to take me more Awesome Stews to recover from a teleport than someone of a lower level... even if they have the exact same skills. 

    If I and another player of a lower level with the exact same skills teleported around with an inventory of Awesome Stews, I would be out of Stew and exceeded my limit on food for the day before they did.... even though it cost us the exact same energy and gave us the exact same XP to gather and make the stews. That is not balanced.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks, Stoot, it seems like a lot of info is missing or not understood, as evidenced by the discussion after my post. :)

    I frequent these forums often, but I cannot even keep up with what is what with everything - it feels like a moving target and - indeed - being in beta, it is a moving target.  But now you're asking people to pay money for a benefit that doesn't seem to be fully fleshed out anywhere (if it is, just point me to it, please).

    So, to sum up a few things....

    - We don't know what teleportation scripts are, we'll find out soon.

    - We don't know how long will a non-teleport token will take since it hasn't been decided but we'll find out soon and then maybe it will be tweaked, depending on how it feels.

    - Teleports take 50 energy right now, but based on a skill tree was was accidentally released, it now appears that it takes some large percentage of energy to teleport with the skill, so we don't know what awaits us - maybe you do? can you break it down for us or is the skills page accurate?

    - When will be the teleport tokens be available?

    - How many can be used in one day?

    - Will they consume any energy?

    - Can a follower hitch a ride on a teleport token?

    - How will it be obvious in-game to anyone that they can buy a teleportation token or buy a sub that includes one? The magic rock's menu? A FAQ? An encyclopedia page?

    Also, in looking at Trav's math and your response, I don't understand why the higher level player is penalized.  If I have AK7 and am level 55 and have 15,000 energy at hand, I can teleport 11 times but someone at level 30 could teleport 30 times?  But I'm level 55, so I can make more energy?  How can I get more energy from a given pig than the level 30 person with AK7?  With us both having AK7, we both get the same amount of meat from a pig, right?

    I guess it's just that a level 55 has that much more energy to play with than a level 30, so can conceivably create more energy/items/currants in the course of time without having to replenish the energy spent in the creation of wealth?  But not if the level 30 has a constant stream of no-no, right?  

    Well, I guess I reasoned myself right back to making and staying on no-no.  Then it really doesn't matter how hard the teleport hit is.  ;-)
    Posted 19 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I totally get the math Trav. And as I said I get your viewpoint, I just disagree that the "unfairness" of it detracts from the game. Too me EVERYTHING taken into account (the amount of skills I have at a higher, the ability to harvest more for less energy, the bonus I get for just about everything at higher levels, the easy at which it is for me to get energy, the fact that I have energy to spare, etc etc.) balances out greatly the imbalance you see.

    I get the numbers. We just disagree on how it feels. Also, as stated, I am glad that I have to think about energy again. That's right. GLAD. I am one of those folks who gets bored with a game when I have all the powers and every action comes to easy. But that is me and it is just a different outlook at it.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With the new descriptions, I still don't understand "teleportation scripts" but am excited to find out.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm only guessing here (based on the description), but I think that the teleportation scripts involve writing a note where you can include a link to a location. Then, you can give it (or ship it) to a friend who can click on the link to be teleported to that location.
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
Previous 1 2 3