Topic

Revisiting "Help Mine" topic

I know this enveloped to a huge thread a while back and the pop-up dialog to allow "help mine" was removed, which is fine and all, but I am seeing a huge amount of greed/competition developing (*cough* Ajaya Bliss competition) that is completely against the whole idea of cooperation and teamwork.

Situation:
- Glitch#1 with level 1 mining enters a vacant map say in Salatu with 4 full rocks in it to mine
- Glitch#1 drinks earthshaker and begins mining
- Random Glitch#2 enters map and proceeds to "help" mine the rock
- Now, normally this is fine EXCEPT random Glitch#2 has level IV Mining
- Glitch#2 clears the rock, leaving Glitch#1 hammering at the ground to finish the cycle
- Proceeding to the next rock, the Glitch#1 may get maximum 2 clumps before it is gone
- This action leaves Glitch#1 very upset that this random Glitch#2 is not waiting or "helping", but is instead finishing the rocks and running off.

My friend reported this to me today as her situation and was quite upset over the callous actions of that miner. I then proceeded to the caves (I don't mine much and have level 2 mining) to see for myself. Sure enough, within 15 minutes of mining while waiting to see a ghost, I too was subject to the "help mine" problem and well, felt very cheated.

I'm not a "serious miner" and do not want to be competitive in mining, it's not important to me. If it were, I'd have Mining IV too. That in mind, think about situations such as these before commenting as this has nothing to do with how beneficial it is supposed to be (I agree it is in the long run more beneficial to share mining). However, it seems a bit lopsided.
 
Suggestion 1:
Impose Mining skill level comparison limit to automatically "help", requiring a dialog to allow help. Glitches with skill levels in mining within one level of one another do not require a dialog to "help mine". Anything greater than 1 level requires permission.

Suggestion 2 (per striatic):
The reward when you are helped should be increase by one. If one person helps, you get 2 bonus chunks. if 2 help you, you get 4 bonus chunks. It could also be managed that each and every time you help, the person you help mine gets more chunks.

Suggestion 2A (per striatic): Each and every time someone helps, the person you help mine gets more chunks. If someone is mining slowly because they are at low level, and the helper manages to get three 'helps' in during their single mining action, the player being helped would receive 6 bonus chunks per mining action - assuming the bonus is boosted to 2.  (#helpers x 2chunk=bonus)

Suggestion 3 (Per  Skwid):
This option is "first come, first serve". Mining a node loots the whole node in one go. This could take the current amount of time, or take 5 times longer than mining currently takes, it doesn't really matter as long as spawn times are consistent.

Suggestion 4 (Per  Skwid):
The second one is more in the spirit of Glitch in my opinion, but is much more difficult to implement. (The following is a summary of my interpretation of Skwid's suggestion) Throttle the speed of all players mining together to the same speed as the player with the highest skill level.

Suggestion 5 (Per ICountFrom0):
Make the mining speed of the first miner be the default speed for all others joining to mine. If a level 1 initiates a mining session on a rock, anyone joining to help will mine at the same speed (if lower than their own). This way you will "help" at their speed if lower than your own or mine at your speed if theirs is higher.

Suggestion 6 (Per Biohazard):
When you select the rock, you then choose "Mine!", which sounds a whole lot like it belongs to you. Perhaps this could be changed to excavate or pick (v).

Suggestion 7 (Per Many Many Glitches):
Change "help mine" to help the OTHER person mine their rock, resulting in the helper receiving less rock chunks than the person they are helping (or none at all).

Posted 15 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Okay, so "Help Mine" was the option they came up with.  Maybe it is an improvement over what was happening before.  I'm sure it is working for you, since you are at a higher skill level, but it is not working for everyone.  The purpose of beta is to work things out.  Sometimes the ultimate solution is the first one that is tried.  Sometimes, it needs to be tweaked a bit more, after one thing is tried, before the BEST solution is found.  This may be "good enough" for you, but is "good enough" what anyone wants from this game?  The fact that this discussion occurs repeatedly is evidence that a significant number of people feel that this is not working as well as it could be.  Just because you are benefiting from things the way they are, doesn't mean that they couldn't be better.

    Oh, and to reference an earlier post of yours, no one may have used the words "selfish" or "uncooperative" but people who are bothered by this were referred to as "lizard brain" which is not exactly flattering.  (Although I think it says more about the person who said it than it does about anyone else.)
    Posted 15 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For those less fortunate in fully understanding the English language (less than 20,000 words), the term might be confusing (Biohazard brought this up too, but I didn't make a case of it)

    mine:
    pronoun: 1. a form of the possessive case of I used as a predicate. Something that belongs to me
    noun: 1. an excavation made in the earth for the purpose of extracting

    So, it is conceivably possible to confuse the inherent meaning. Not saying it is a solution, but it may be a helpful option to "some".
    Posted 15 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can we also change the word "Pet" from when you are interacting with trees, because everytime I hear the word it makes me want a pet cat in game to follow me around and purr!
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL@Laurali I've had the exact same thought cross my mind at times. hehe.

    If the game ever grows enough to have dedicated linguistics per region, both BioHazard's and other terms used may be a mute point, which is why I personally don't find word choices worth the argument over.
    Posted 15 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought that when you help mine, you are helping the person get a higher chance for a rare stone. Maybe no one wants help after all?
    Posted 15 months ago by Samerina Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the best solution is that the people who help mine will NOT finish until the person who started mining is done, no matter what level of mine they have.

    Think of it this way, if your "helping" and the first person takes 1 minute... and your only there for 5 seconds, that's not much help.

    A person who really wants to help, will, somebody just in it to take the ore, will go to a different rock instead.

    A newbie joining a higher level rock will take longer then the starter and not effect anybody.
    Posted 15 months ago by ICountFrom0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's all been said so forget it, i will be nice. However, i will iterate: newbs, don't enslave yourselves to mining because some fewls in global tell you it is the easy way to mad loot. The game is pretty well-balanced, gardening V is just as badass, and you can make a LOT of money as a noob just wandering, chatting, enjoying yourself, etc. There's almost nothing worth buying at the high end so just chill and enjoy the musicblocks!
    Posted 15 months ago by FlirtyvonSexenhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Flirty for President.
    Posted 15 months ago by emdot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yeah...  started getting obsessed with making fruit a month or so  ago  - so kept going on harvesting binges... I was making a ton of money, just going about harvesting and occasionally watering/petting

    I do wish people wouldn't pet & water all the trees though, stealing my chance for a bonus!
    ;)
    Posted 15 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's all well and good, Flirty, but as I said above, there are things I enjoy doing that do require mining.  In fact, other than this aspect, I even enjoy some mining.  It has nothing to do with making currants.  And telling "noobs" to just avoid mining (which is what you're implying) doesn't solve the problem. 
    Posted 15 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ICount:  It doesn't make any sense to penalize someone with higher level mining.  Now imagine this scenario, a level IV miner is mining a rock and a level II miner comes and starts mining too, then the level IV has to wait significantly longer to finish mining.
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was surprized when I first used "help mine." I assumed that all of the rocks would go to the person who started mining, not that I would get "my share" plus. I thought that is what "help" meant. Perhaps it should be renamed - "mine same rock." Or perhaps it should be changed to an actual "help mine." I prefer the latter - no violating someone' space, but if you are on a project team you are getting ectra rock for the team.
    Posted 15 months ago by Kookaburra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It might be nice if when you helped mine a rock, everyone helping then mined at the rate of the most experienced miner - i.e. players with lesser experience can get to directly benefit from your expertise. Added incentive for newer players to actively collaborate too.
    Posted 15 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Dopiaza: it's a nice idea in theory, but then there would really be no reason for more than a few people to learn mining, because one person would learn it and a stream of noobs would mine with them to get the benefits
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ICount:  It doesn't make any sense to penalize someone with higher level mining.  Now imagine this scenario, a level IV miner is mining a rock and a level II miner comes and starts mining too, then the level IV has to wait significantly longer to finish mining. Posted 4 hr ago by Laurali

    It makes PERFECT sense.

    Look, the problem is higher level people taking rock from lower leveled people, so we simply do something that makes them not want to touch a rock that anybody else of lower level is using...  If you'd read my post, then you'd notice, that as the IV started first, HIS level is the max level the rock can be mined at.  The II that showed up and helped, does not change the rock.  The IV finishes at IV speed, and the message on the rock is "MINE" not "help mine" you'll notice... so he continues to mine at IV speed.  If the II gets a chance to "help mine" again, it'll still change nothing.  The only way this would slow down is if the II stood there, and hit the pick to the rock in the instant between the IV mining two times.  Clear case of rock sniping there, we've established that's bad behavior.

    TL;DR :: Lock the rock with "mine" and no "help mine" can go faster then the starter.
    Posted 15 months ago by ICountFrom0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • dopiaza's idea is superb.

    people would still learn mining, as there wouldn't always be people around to "mooch" off of. if you could even call it mooching, since the high level miner still ends up with more rocks than going solo, due to bonus chunks.

    iCountFrom0's idea is poor on many levels. lowest common denominator mining? as a way to RESOLVE conflict? laughable.
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Suggestion 4 (Per Skwid) is the same as Dopiaza's recommendation.
    Posted 15 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps if it goes a bit faster,  but not as fast?
    Posted 15 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just to share. I commented above about a group of miners approximately 6 of them, who came up to my rock and in no time took every bit of sparkly, I got two pieces of it after searching for two hours; seriously. I am not a new player and I am a level IV miner. Yet with so many in the group, they left me with invisible sparkly; you know when everything is gone and your pick is still going away?. This group moved on to the other sparklys and in a flash  all rocks were gone. I just needed one to make some powder. When I asked for one, or at least some rock, the leader Z- was quite rude! I could see several rocks that were just there! 
    There is no fun to rudeness!  What is the idea of help? Not enough rock? Why? Why isn't there enough rock? We are here to let the developers know there is a problem.
      Who cares about Earthshakers, not me!  I make them and give them away and some people give some to me. I just think that there are some people who just are not nice. If new players are confined to certain areas because of low level skill's; how equal is that?  We are equal no matter how much experience I have or any one else has. I say that everything can work if we can be neighbors. Truly, I have made lots of friends" mine sharing" and no matter what anyone says, other than the friends, I see no rock benefits when sharing, what one extra rock? I don't care about the math, I don't care about any of that, I care about fun in a game called Glitch! 
    PS: I hope I haven't offended anyone because that is the last thing I want to do, I extend the peace pipe !  LOL
    Posted 15 months ago by Joy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Joy, invisible sparkly sounds like a bug to me. But I will keep an eye out the next time I go mining.
    Posted 15 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Joy: they changed it so if you are mining and someone takes the rock and so you are mining "nothing" you should still get chunks. If you didn't, talk to live help or bug report it.

    Also, low level players are restricted for lots of other skills. Nobody is saying they HAVE to start out of the caves, just that it is extremely competitive there even for high mining levels, and it is gonna be nearly impossible for a low level mining to accomplish much there. The game had built in places for low levels, and they would benefit much more if they used those places.

    @Striatic: there would be tons of people to mooch off in the caves especially. Someone already created an auto mining type thing (which is cool) but shows that people are always looking for a way to get around mining limitations. I'm not as much worried about people "mooching" as I an worried that this will un intentionally make it somewhat useless to learn full mining. You get a increase in gems but they changed it so gems get rarer the more you have, so that would not be a huge factor either
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Joy, I agree with you.  And if you look at my first post, you'll notice that I said the most frustrating aspect of this, for me, is when a pair (or group) of miners joins me and completely wipes out the rock I'm working on in no time flat.  My solution is to limit the number of people that can mine a rock at one time to two total.  @Laurali, you should be ok with this since it doesn't "penalize" the higher level miners and although the rock would still disappear more quickly and the lower level would get less out of it, it would not vanish AS quickly. 

    As to the "mining nothing" it still occurs at the end of the rock when the other person is a faster miner, although I do still get some chunks out of it.  But, I'm standing there chipping away at air, while the faster miner(s) have moved on to the next rock.

    There are no "built in places for low levels."  This is an elitist view that has never been a part of Glitch.  All levels are welcome to go everywhere.  Period.  If people would just admit that when they "help" a low level miner, they are actually only helping themselves then maybe some would feel less inclined to "help" that lower level miner.

    Although I find it distasteful to admit (as a Lizard Brain) that I agree with Striatic, dopiaza's idea is a good one.  It would cause the "help" to actually be helpful and remove the incentive for hijacking a rock being worked by a lower level miner.  And (Laurali) the higher level miner would not be penalized.
    Posted 15 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Lauali, yes thank you I got the two rocks I spoke about! lol the one I mined and 1 from "my helpers". The invisible rock is nothing new, it has been like that since I entered the game, basically only shows when you are being helped or end up being the helper.
    @lovintnt I agree with you.

     Also I note that new players come to the mines in hope of making quickly the currants needed for homes and usually begin in the mine as told by older players, just as most of us were told; and guess, yes they end up with super nice homes very quickly.Heaven knows how many I have seen die, because they do not come fully prepared with food etc..
    When the game officially starts and we become "low levels" LOL guess where we will begin?
    Its a catch 22! haha! Actually this is funny! LOL
    Posted 15 months ago by Joy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Someone totally did this to me yesterday too! But, then I pondered over it a while and came up with this: 

    All rocks are technically "shared" between low and high level players, whether they're being actively mined or not, as they are a semi-finite resource at any given time. So as pick brandishers, we need to make a trade off between the efficiencies of co-mining and the ability to monopolize a rock without interruption. Some spots are better for each. BUT low-level miners should feel free to guilt trip anyone that butts in when they're under the effects of an earthshaker.
    Posted 15 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lovin, there are certain areas that actually are "starter" areas.  It's not an elitist view, its a fact.  I never said people can't go where they want, I just said its more beneficial for low levels to stay in the starter areas because there is less competition, people sometimes go there to help, etc.  I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive towards me, I never called you or anyone else a lizardbrain, just stating my opinion. 

    Like Blanky said "some spots are better for each [efficiencies of co-mining and the ability to monopolize a rock without interruption]".  That's what I (and others) have been trying to say!
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not sure where you get that I am being defensive towards you, Laurali.  I am stating my opinion and facts as I see them.  I have offered compromises, where you seem to be on a "my way only" path.  Maybe the defensiveness you see is your own?

    Can you please back up the "fact" that there are starter areas?  Because other than the road we come in on, and that we cannot return to, I do not believe there are any starter or advanced areas.  If you can show me some documentation, then I will back off of that point.  And I have said many, many times now that this occurs even in the less populated areas.

    Some of us are trying to come up with solutions to something that does not work well for many people.  I would love to hear if you have an actual solution.  If you don't believe that there is a problem, just say that and move on and allow those of us who want to find solutions to keep working on it.
    Posted 15 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Clarification of sorts for Laurali and lovintnt:

    There exist start streets which have no rocks to mine and are not accessible by the general population of glitch. There also exist certain public streets where you are more likely to see lots of newer, lower-leveled players. There are no 'starter areas'. All players are able to access all public streets regardless of level (except the few tutorial streets a new glitch walks through directly after entrance to the game).
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's what I thought Millie.
    Posted 15 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Blanky, I'm not sure I agree with the "efficiencies of co-mining" as it has been described. In my experience, when I co-mine, I get less. So, while co-mining may finish the rock more efficiently, it does not increase my efficiency.
    Posted 15 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can't we all just get along?

    (I just deleted five paragraphs as I felt some people might find them to be a cause for butthurtedness. This is a great way to "solve" a "problem!")

    Instead of using the word "starter," perhaps we should use the word "Groddle." You are less likely to have someone else try to mine the rock you've already started on if you go to a Groddle location with rocks. Are there as many? No. That's why the higher level miners aren't going to be stealing your bounty there.

    Just for clarity, I am not saying that if you're lower level you can't or shouldn't go mine in the caverns. Just know that if you do, a higher-level miner is more likely to "steal" the rock you're mining. You cannot govern how others play any more than they can govern how you play.

    Also, apologies for all of the scare quotes. I was unsure how to get my feelings across any better than that. I'm a fairly casual Glitchen and don't get all that upset about much.
    Posted 15 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is good to strike a balance - and to look at multiple perspectives.  If I am a skilled miner, I should understand that hopping on a rock someone else is mining may be seen as rude - especially if they're "earthshaking" (which I probably am too!).  If I am less skilled at mining, I should understand that the more skilled are that for a reason - to mine faster and get more gems, etc.  They chose to become skilled in that area and jumped through the hoops to do it.  Regardless of skill, I could certainly be seen as rude to (in the more extreme case) come onto a street with five sparklies and assume they're "mine" for the taking because I was there first.

    In an effort to find balance, reflect life, and promote cooperation (a Glitchen trait, as I see it), I like the current options (though perhaps implemented a little differently):  You can mine a rock by yourself, or you can help someone else mine - simple enough.  So let's try to make "help mine" do what it says as much as we can (keeping in mind, of course, that the best of intentions often still have undesired effects).  As I understand it, helping to mine currently gives each person a little more product, but does that help?  Well, not if you're an advanced miner looking for gems.  Likewise, in a sparse area, you still end up with less anyway (but keep in mind you do both "win" in the sense that together you got more than if you didn't "help" each other. . .).  Sorry if this is rambling a bit, but I think it's important to keep a broad perspective.  With that in mind:

    Mining vs. Helping:
    If someone is mining a rock, perhaps "help mine" means just that - help the original miner.  However fast or skilled the helper is, the rocks they mine go to the original miner.  After all, you're helping them!  Perhaps you can keep a couple extras as a token.  Why would you help?  Maybe because you're nice!  Or maybe because you get a notably increased chance of getting  gems, gifts, good karma, or whatever, in addition to your xp.

    If you prefer different terminology, I could say that this essentially "locks" a rock while someone is actively mining it.  Now when the original miner finishes a round, someone else might be able to slip in, but that would be somewhat difficult to time just right and MUCH more clearly seen as rude.

    This version of "help mine" matches more closely with my personal definition, but I don't have the experience to know its effects.  It may encourage advanced miners to help beginning miners somewhat, while discouraging them from tapping the same rock if they are after the actual rock. It gives "beginner" miners more to gain and less to complain about.  It also means they are may not be as likely to help advanced miners, but frankly they would be less help anyway (no offense!), and I don't think advanced miners would care much one way or the other.

    A small adjustment to this might be to make both "mine" and "help mine" options available when someone is currently mining a rock.  Choose "help mine" to help them as above, or choose "mine" if you just want to bang on the same rock.  It's a free world, after all.

    Anyway, I like the idea of helping for the sake of helping, and I hadn't read that here yet. . .

    [One last side-note:  It makes sense that everyone finish the rock together.  So perhaps speed doesn't change (why would it?), but everyone can be cut off as soon as the rock is gone, similar to when you are about to run out of energy while repairing a tool (ack!).]
    Posted 15 months ago by SAF SHAFson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In the first iteration, I was of the opinion it was rude to intrude on someone else already mining because.. well, I still think that honestly.  I go to mine to zone out, it's a very zen part of the game for me, and I enjoy the rhythm of it.  You butting in on the rock I'm working messes up my zen and I'd prefer you go do your own thing.

    Then they instituted help mine and I was under the impression that it actually created a win-win for everyone.  Even though I still prefer my solo zen mining, I'm a reasonable gal and can go with the flow, so I didn't grump at people hopping in and from time to time I did the same - though really only in Ajaya because, as a I said, I really prefer my solo zen thing.

    Until I realized that by "helping" someone mine I may actually be messing it up for a lower level miner who seemed to be getting far less than me, which made me feel like a jerk and selfish which was the absolute opposite of my intention, especially since I prefer solo mining in the first place!
     
    So now I'm back where I started.  I won't encroach on other people's work and I don't want them to encroach on mine.  And when they do, I just walk away and go find another rock.  By the end of the last test, I was mining 100% in places OTHER than Ilmenski since that place was even more insane due to the cubi craze.
     
    In a general sense I'm usually all for the hippie communal cooperative option, but with mining in Glitch, it just hasn't worked for me so far.
    Posted 15 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't want to get too embroiled in this, but there are two points I'd like to make. Firstly, it's all very well to say 'newbies should...' whatever, but how are the newbies going to know that? They're newbies! They may not even have worked out there are forums yet! How are they going to acquire this wisdom? They might just think, ah, I will go and find a place with *lots* of rocks, then I can mine more easily. They won't be fully aware of what extra efficiencies and benefits higher mining levels give you, so they mostly likely won't be making this analysis for themselves. I don't think that solutions which rely heavily on 'newbies should...' are especially helpful.

    Secondly, as a non-newbie, I have to say I don't find it easy/quick to check another player's level. If I need to check carefully whether another player mining a rock is a lower level than me, I have to fiddle about clicking on their info button, and even then I won't know what their mining level is. I'd have to ask. And by the time I've asked, they'll probably have finished mining. It's probably more sensible for me not to help anyone mine, for fear of doing someone out of their rock. Am I missing something here?
    Posted 15 months ago by Theremina Lute Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I usually can tell the level of a miner just by gauging how long one "mine-cycle" takes for them.  If I have mining II or III, it's easier to compare, because IV vs I and IV vs II are pretty similar, but if I have III and they are quicker than I am, they have IV... slower than I am, I or II...

    Not very scientific, but it is the quick way.  As Theremina said, fiddling about trying to click through stuff to find their level isn't very efficient, and it pulls you out of that mining groove.  

    My secret?  Avoid rush hour.  Most peeps are mining between 3 pm PST and 9 pm PST.  If you're going to mine during those hours, it's like driving in rush hour; avoid if possible, try to maintain patience if not possible... and find the back roads.  If you're mining somewhere not in Ilminskie and it seems empty... make it a teleport point and come back later!  

    Those are my tactics and I refuse to defend them if anyone wants to argue about it.  I shall run away!  Like brave, brave Sir Robin!
    Posted 15 months ago by Wiggles The Fluent Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really hate people helping me mine.  Instead of others being able to just jump in and help theirselves I would like a notice "Do you want help mining? Yes or NO" Then it would be up to the person who started mining first to either respond yes or no.

    People who keep mining after I have asked them to not help me get splanked, then I just go somewhere else.  I do not believe they cannot read what I have asked for them not to help.
    Posted 15 months ago by xoxJulie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am a Glitch newbie, having started playing just three days before the recent EOTW. I picked Mining I to learn because I used to collect rocks as a kid. After learning that skill, I got a quest to help five other players with their mining.  I went to places I'd seen rocks before, but saw no other players mining.  I looked at the maps and identified what looked like a mining area.  So I went to Ilmenski and found people mining.  I asked someone if I could help them mine.  They said "sure," but by the time they answered they'd moved off my screen.  I found someone who answered more quickly and  finally was able to help someone mine. 

    I was surprised to find that I got rock chunks, since I thought I'd only get mood enhancement or something like that (unless the person I was helping saw fit to give me something in return). Because I'd been told to "help mine" for a quest, and because I understood Glitch to be a game that encouraged cooperation, I assumed that helping someone mine would always create a gain for the person being helped.  I soon stopped asking people if I could help them mine, since that took extra time and I assumed that such helping was a benevolent activity and would be seen as such.  After I'd helped my five people, I helped some other people I saw mining.

    Had there not been a hiatus in the game, I might never have seen this thread.  I might have eventually learned Mining IV and still not have realized that my "help" would not always be helpful.  Alternatively, I might have found myself on the losing side of a competition with more experienced miners.  That would be a big turn-off, because I'm not here to win a mining competition, or mine as efficiently as possible, or quickly earn enough money to buy a house.  All I want is to be a casual player and to have fun in a friendly and cooperative environment.  If I can't do that here, I can go elsewhere.  But I also know this:

    If Glitch is going to succeed, it must have ongoing appeal for new users as well as for experienced players.  It must provide a satisfying experience during the first minutes, hours, days, and weeks of play.  It must satisfy the expectations TS has created by representing Glitch as a game that encourages collaboration and cooperation.  So it's in the best interests of TS to have a user community that points out possible weaknesses in the design and tries to come up with suggestions for improvement.  It's also in the best interests of the user community to do this, because if we don't take care of the places (both virtual and real) in which we find ourselves now, there may be no elsewhere to go to in the future.
    Posted 15 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • + 1 million, Splendora! Well said!
    Posted 15 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In the future, I think I'll post in local chat that I'm either on a quest, or ask if anyone cares for help mining.

    I don't really mind if people "help" me, but I've also run off a few times when other random players walk up while I'm already mining. It also irks me a little when everyone's got their chunks and I'm stuck there finishing up the cycle.
    Posted 15 months ago by Saraphim Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The more I think about it and read this thread, the more I like the idea of "help mine" meaning helping the other person mine - i.e., the other person gets the rock.  The game could give the helper an extra token rock or improved gem chances or more xp or favors of some sort, but it seems like it fits the nature of this game to have "help mine" work that way, player levels and mining skills are implicit in the behavior, it doesn't take much to "learn" the behavior as a newbie to mining, I know I would still help people mine, and I think it would be a relatively easy adjustment for the devs to make.  Just sayin'. . .
    Posted 15 months ago by SAF SHAFson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like to jump in and help mine when I see a random person mining, because I think of it as a nice thing to do.  Sometimes their response is positive - they wait for me to join them at the next rock. If they seem put off, I just give them some of the rocks I mined - I want goodwill more than rocks.  Sometimes I will give them the rocks anyway, just because I can see that they are lower level.

    I never was insulted when I was a low-level miner by higher level miners joining me.  It's like a buffet.  You can eat what is there, but if the dish is empty, it's not the fault of the person who ate the last serving.  There is always more food coming out.

    In the beginning, it is always hard to get stuff, but it gets easier the higher you go.  I have always been impressed by the generosity of most higher level characters, and have tried to follow their example.

    About Earthshakers - I only had to try one before I realized that it was a bad idea.  Awesome Stew is my friend.   
    Posted 15 months ago by Jewel Stoned Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jewel Stoned wrote: Earthshakers - I only had to try one before I realized that it was a bad idea

    I only had to try one to decide that they were an awesome idea. You get 30 energy (for repairing!), and as much free energy as you can mine in 3 mins. It's awesome. I don't have to run from street to street finding food, I don't have to pay a ton of currants for veggies, or wait for them to grow. I don't have to try to find large quantities of beans... I bet I can earn more currants in an hour spent mining than you can making awesome stew from scratch and then mining with the food.

    Food has recursive energy costs. It costs energy to make the food. Earthshakers don't have that (unless you're making them for yourself, and that really is a bad idea). This is especially true of low skill levels, when picking fruit from a tree costs more energy than you can get from the fruit. And we haven't even started in on the amount of time necessary to make the food.
    Posted 15 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'll admit that I've not read through all the posts here...but one idea caught my eye...that "Help Mine" really means that you are helping the other person mine...and they would get a majority of the haul, while you might get a token reward such as a mood boost (considering you don't normally get a mood boost from mining, I'd likely even help others mine at times, if it meant that I could get a mood boost when mine was low).  I love this idea...and I'd grumble a LOT less when someone comes up and 'helps mine' the rock that I was working.  I'm like Fleep...for me it is a solo activity and it's therapeutic with the rhythm...but if someone wants to help, and actually help me...that's pretty cool.  I'd like them to get some reward for it...just not the bulk of the rock that I was working.  And it also means that I don't have to stop and say yea/nay to them helping me since it's not negatively affecting me anyway.  I think that change would be brilliant!
    Posted 15 months ago by b3achy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Blanky commented above pretty much saying it won't change!
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know if we'll ever be done talking about this...
    Posted 15 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Earthshakers are good, sort of.

    they are not good if you you have less than Mining 4, they are, in fact, bad. just objectively bad. unless you make them yourself, at which point assessing them becomes complicated [they're probably still bad].

    if you have Mining 4, Earthshakers are best for energy efficiency per currant spent, presuming you buy them from Helga or at a comparable price at auction. So they are clearly good.

    there are some exceptions though. the most energy efficient way to mine, probably, is with food, in Ajaya Bliss, with other people helping you and helping other people. it isn't necessarily the "best" way to mine, as it isn't the "fastest" way to mine, but the energy efficiency is tremendous.

    also, if your mining style is selective, say you want to make a powder or mine only sparkly, then the increased search time may make Earthhakers + Mining 4 less effective than using food.

    Earthhakers are good, despite certain weaknesses.
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • + 1 million for having "help mine" actually help the person being helped.   I think this is a wonderful solution to this problem!  It completely supports the cooperative spirit of the game, it penalizes NOBODY, and it removes any negative aspect of having someone help one mine.  Brilliant!  How about it Tiny Speck?
    Posted 15 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Blanky commented above pretty much saying it won't change"

    I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion.  I didn't see anything in her comment saying that it will not change.
    Posted 15 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • help mine *already* helps the person who is mining.

    - 2 million and forty

    btw the whole "+ a gazillion" stuff is awful. as if your desperation and ability to concoct numbers somehow equates to an idea being good.

    Edit: btw, btw the "feature" you are suggesting is already implemented. i mine with you, and then give you all the chunks i get.
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "help mine *already* helps the person who is mining."

    +a gazillion
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +/-/= a Googolplexian!!

    (Evil Laugh)
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink