Topic

Community gardens

I've been in and out of the community gardens a lot this test. Constantly on the verge of starvation. But never been able to harvest a crop though I planted many. They grow so slowly and it seems you'd have to 'stand guard' - and be awake - to prevent others from harvesting what you planted. I think this will be a problem for new players, especially when there are a lot more players.

Posted 15 months ago by Emu Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Maybe the game can incude some sort of restriction or something where people have to plant the same number of crops that they pick. With permanent pigs in the area to make it easy to get seeds. For most crops, the ratio of seeds to actual crop is pretty wide so you can still leave with a significant gain but you have replenished what you've taken, as well.
    Posted 15 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmm, I think this problem won't be so bad once people start levelling and gaining skills. As that happens you'll have more people who will support themselves, and even better some who will donate to the community gardens. At the moment a lot will still be scrambling to save currants and get what they want. Just going from what it seemed like before the reset.
    Posted 15 months ago by Serilyn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • community gardens are not meant to be used to grow food for survival or advancement.

    if you are using a community garden for something other than completing a simple quest, you're asking for trouble.

    buy a house, garden there.

    bat-poop helps too.
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Planting, clearing, and growing vegetables is not really worth the effort currently since you can just buy them from vendors. As people get higher skill levels in Gardening you'll see the number of crops increase though. If you really want to grow your own crops in the community gardens you should set a timer so you can come back when your crops grow, or use guano to boost the growing time.
    Posted 15 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Serilyn that once people have leveled up there won't be as big of a problem.  Before the reset both the vegetable and herb community gardens seemed to be running pretty smoothly.
    Posted 15 months ago by Menoboo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • one thing that drives me nuts is when people pick things, but then don't hoe the messy plot.  grrr. i checked in on a few community gardens during this test and there seemed to be a lot more of that than usual. 
    Posted 15 months ago by peacefulbean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A lot of people probably didn't want to spend the time (or inventory space) on a hoe this week, so they simply weren't capable of cleaning out the mess.
    Posted 15 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's why you have the option of buying a house. I tried for an entire test to harvest a few veggies. Doesn't work for the same reasons it doesn't work IRL *lesson learned*
    Posted 15 months ago by r0gu3 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I know of at least one community garden in Groddle Meadow that had an animal enclosure with pigs at one end. I didn't even know it was there. I had never explored the full length of that street oddly enough, so I don't even know if it was there before this test.
    Posted 15 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @FF All community gardens (crop and herb) have had animal pens for at least a few tests, possibly more :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i used to go into the community garden and tend all the plots and plant up the empty ones with a variety of veggies for others to come and pick, but i quit doing it when there was a flap in the forums from people who wanted the spots to be left open.

    so there ended up being a lot of unused, dry plots a lot of the time instead of ripe vegetables ready for anyone to pick.

    it does bug me when people who harvest things there don't bother to clean up the mess.

    i want to shout "hey, i left you some free meals! could you at least bus your table?"
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Before all my Urly goods vanished in the last reset I used to enjoy making watering cans and hoes with my tinkering skills and leaving them around the community gardens.
    I remember how tragic it was when my hoe broke and I didn't have the skill to mend it and couldn't afford to buy a new one. So when I see those messy plots I always assume some other poor newbie has broken their hoe. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Oiorpata Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I haven't been playing Glitch for very long, but I was able to save up and buy a house where I planted lots of things the test before last. I would make seeds with my own piggies and take the extras to my local community garden. Each time I went to check on it I would either see plenty of crops to harvest or new seeds planted. I always carry my hoe/watering can when I plan to stop by there so, tending the plots is never an issue for me.

    I agree that the shorter test time we have, the more people will likely take from the gardens and not hoe or re-plant seeds. It actually took about a week of playing the game for me to realize that I could and *how to* make my own seeds.

    On that note, I was able to scrape up enough currants to get a house last week, but I am waiting for the hog-tie quest before I start putting pigs in my backyard. So, I have been making seeds out in the "public" areas. I try to find areas that have a pig or two, but either no or not a lot of people around. I haven't had any problems with that until Wednesday. I made four packs of seeds, the pig and the plops were *right* next to me. I started picking up the plops when some girl comes close to where I am. I press Enter to get my other two plops and low & behold they are not there. Seeing as she didn't do any actions to the pig, I knew she had taken them. Now I know that it is a risk we take when we make seeds out in the open, but really.....I am standing RIGHT NEXT TO THE PIG...and seeds/produce don't cost much at all to buy if one (she) really needs them. So, I IM'd her for them back. She ignored me and walked off. So, I followed her. I IM'd about three times, nicely, before I said something in local chat. I had to follow her to about three different places before she said something back about not seeing chat blah blah. I just asked for the plops back again and she finally gave them to me. 

    In addition to planting my home garden, I really enjoy randomly giving those at lower levels than me a drink here, something to eat there, to help them out. Making my own seeds helps me keep up in doing that.

    Needless to say, when we're back in the game, I'll be movin' my butt to get the rest of the animal skills out of the way so I'll finally have my own pigs.

    I will also be planting lots more of the seeds that I make in my local community garden. I like to help out where/when I can and I always hope that planting some yummy veggies does help others out when they needs them.

    (I really miss our game!)
    - C.J.
    Posted 15 months ago by Carnivale Justice Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've always considered the community gardens in Glitch as "community gardens"... meaning if I have seeds - I plant them, or I water plots that need it or clear them or whatever and take what plants are grown that I want/need (within reason - I think I've always tried to leave some for others too).  That being said, I would never behave like that in a community garden IRL.  ;-)

    I guess if you are using a community garden plot to grow some food solely for yourself, you *should* guard it or at least leave a note next to the plot explaining that you'd like to harvest the goods yourself, but I just don't think many people think of the community garden plots in Glitch, or their goods, to be the sole property of one Glitchling.
    Posted 15 months ago by Reba Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Reba your right that's how community gardens generally work.  They were too crowded this week for me to do anything but a little hoeing.  Before reset the herb gardens worked so if I wanted specific plants I would bring the seeds I needed with fertilizer and stand guard until they were ready to be picked.  Still someone would always come along and harvest my plants before I could run over and save them.  What would piss me off is they stood there and watched me do all the work while doing and saying nothing, then just grab the plants and run.  You have to be alert whenever you are in a community garden.
    Posted 15 months ago by xoxJulie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @xoxJulie - Wow!  I'm surprised they didn't even ask!  Before the reset, I remember making some food but not having room in my bag to put it, but I didn't know that until it was laying next to "me" on the ground and someone came quickly by and grabbed them all up.  I asked her if she took them - because maybe she didn't know that they were mine and she said, no, but where else did it disappear to?  I reported it as a bug, just in case they *did* just vanish into thin air just after she stopped in front of the food, but I highly suspect she nabbed them up.  lol  I just figure MOST of us who play the game are very friendly and generous and truthful and only a few aren't. 

    We all have to consider newb consciousness too... because some people just might not realize what they're doing and/or understand the game very well either.  I think I may have nabbed someone's thing on the ground once or twice as a level 1-2 player thinking I found it on the ground, but now I know better and when I find something I ask the Glitchlings around me if it belongs to one of them.

    I certainly recommend buying a small house, just to grow some stuffs and post that you want to trade for other things in a trading Group if you don't have enough plots to grow everything you want.  

    Because so many of us tend to be giving and generous as higher level players while we're playing the game, I think that's why the gardens are considered everyone's property and that's just the mentality of it with a majority of the players.    
    Posted 15 months ago by Reba Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmm, it seems to me that people may have different mental models of what community gardens are and how they should function:

    1. Life is a bowl of cherries, and the cherries are free!
    In this model, the community garden is seen as a free, self-renewing resource available on a first-come, first-pick basis. The community gardens in Glitch don't work this way, but newbies may think they do. 

    2. As ye sow, so shall ye reap -- it you sow quickly enough.
    In this model, the community garden is a free, non-self-renewing resource available on a first-come, first-plant basis. This is consistent with how the game actually works:  Plots don't produce unless they are tended and planted.  According to this model, it's only fair that the person who tends and plants a plot gets the harvest from it. I think this is closest to how community gardens function IRL, though IRL allotments generally are of a fixed size and you have to apply to get one. Also, IRL the land belongs to someone, so the landowners are subsidizing those who use the community garden.

    3. Make the love you take equal to the love you make (in the end).
    In this model, the community garden is shared resource from which people can take from any plot, but are expected to give back in equivalent value what they take. This also is consistent with how the game actually works. Although less common, this model also exists IRL, and there are two variants of it.  In one, the payback is expected to be immediate.  In the other, the payback can be delayed (usually with some limitations).

    4. Tis better to give, unless you really need to take.
    In this model, the community garden is a charitable resource to which some people contribute based on ability and enlightened self-interest, and from which others take when they are in need and willing to acknowledge that by giving thanks, offering to clear a patch if someone will lend them a hoe, etc.

    5. You're an ant, I'm a grasshopper, or "I am Lord Voldemort."
    In this model, the community garden is a place where some plant and then others take because they feel entitled, like the proverbial grasshopper, or simply because they can. While it's usually impossible to prevent this from happening on a small scale, if allowed to happen on a large scale it can lead to social breakdown and "the war of all against all." 

    Obviously, we don't want people walking around with (1) or (5) in their heads.  But how do we choose or balance between (2), (3), and (4)?
    Posted 15 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • When it comes to seeds... I grew to the point where I'd just buy them because it was annoying to not be able to feed 3 at a time when I had like a stack of 80 tomatoes in my inventory. It'd be nice if I could feed a piggy 9 or 12 tomatoes and get my proper 3-4 seeds as well, rather than feed them 3 each time separately for every seed I need. I really hope they spruce that process up a bit. I don't mind feeding my piggies to get seeds (I really much prefer it since it's cheaper), but when it's so tedious, it's not worth my time.

    I think the community gardens will do fine after some people get re-established. I never used them much, but it was always nice to see a few things growing in them when I'd pass through.
    Posted 15 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It doesn't matter whether we choose or balance between 2,3, and 4. 

    Words typed in this forum are irrelevant when it comes to how people play the game.  Some people will play version 1, some people will play version 5 and some people will play all five versions at different times. 

    Whatever we type here, all five versions are going to be played because people come to this game with lots of different mental models, and all of those models work in this game.  As long as they all work, they will all be used as game strategies.  By people who never, ever visit these forums, and thus miss their chance at being educated and socialized in someone else's vision of "correct" behavior.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I didn't find the garden in Middle Arbor too crowded... I think the way to garden is to run a timer on your crops.  And use guano.  Usually, you don't need so much, since one plot yields something like 14 onions or tomatoes.  I had taken a break from Gitch and was surprised at just how much stuff you get from 6 plots.
    Posted 15 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WindBorn is correct.  Most people will never read the forum.  People will have different mental models and will play accordingly.  I was thinking like a researcher and not making that clear.  I apologize.  So let me restate the last sentence of my previous post:

    Research in the area of collaboration and social gaming leads me to believe that almost all players who understand the game will prefer that others not play based on models (1) or (5). However, I don't know how preferences for (2), (3), and (4) would be distributed. So I will find it interesting to see how the community of players (of which I am part) chooses and balances, as they play the game, between the differing actions that would be implied by each model.

    That's not going to be decided by discussion in this forum, and I'm sorry if my post suggested that it should be or could be. It's absurd to think we can use a forum like this to make rules that others will follow. On the other hand, we can use this forum to discuss how we would behave ourselves and why, and to try to expand our understanding both of how the game works and of the thinking of other players.
    Posted 15 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ;-) Absurd, but not unheard of.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If I harvest, I like to plant something to re[lace it.  I couldn't do that this test when I was poor and starving.  I have, however, planted many things in the past without ever returning to harvest so I don't feel too bad about it.

    If you need what you plant, take plenty of bat poo to the Gardens with you or be prepared to wait a good long while for the crop to grow.
    Posted 15 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was in the herb garden growing and trying to guard the ones I planted, I'm talking at most 5 or 6 plants.  It felt like watching paint dry it took so long even using bat poop.  There was a pig stuck on the up raised garden plots, I feed it 3 times with 3 spinach and was inspecting the poop as it turned into spinach seeds another person who did not plant or fertilize anything grabbed my spinach seeds.  We were the only people in the garden. When  I chased him down and asked for my spinach seeds back he started harvesting the flowers I planted and fertilized.  So I grabbed what was left maybe 3 flowers and IM the person and said it wasn't nice to steal my spinach seeds or flowers.  I did get an IM back saying he would return my spinach seeds but not a word about my flowers.  I declined and just blocked that person.  So you have to use the community gardens with caution.  
    Posted 15 months ago by xoxJulie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This was the way community gardens were before in the last test... I guess once we have a critical mass of gardeners, things will get better.
    Posted 15 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @xoxoJulie & Little Miss Giggles, Sounds like during the last test the three of us had issues with people taking our stuff, while we tried to do something out in the open. It really saddens me that there are people even in Glitch that act that way. (Yeah, I do know that there are people like that everywhere.) It gave me a kick in the pants to get on to my Animal skills as soon as we're back in so I can get pigs of my own in my little backyard.

    @Blitz, I was on for the test before last and saw the Community Garden near me thrive nicely.
    I helped it, but there were others who were keeping it up too.

    During the last two tests, I also witnessed a group of people killing multiple trees/animals with the poison. the first time I saw it, I was able to save almost all of the trees and animals, but this last time I didn't have enough energy. I do know that some may poison a tree in the open to replant/regrow it for a quest or whathaveyou, but that was not the case the two times I saw it.

    I love Glitch and love seeing everything IN the game thrive including, people (of course), the trees, animals, and crops, but it is up to each one of us to help take care of something or another in the game. If animals don't get taken care of, they die. If trees don't get water, they die. If the community gardens don't get planted, the plots are there for nothing and no one can reap the rewards.

    (I really miss my Glitch buddies, even if it's just passing one another on our way to get another quest out of the way.)

    ♥ C.J.
    Posted 15 months ago by Carnivale Justice Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wonder if some of this is people not understanding?

    I know when i first saw the community gardens I assumed that they automatically grew stuff so I grabbed everything I could (and watered everything I could, and hoed everything I could too :P ) because the other things like trees and animals seem to be fairly self replenishing. Then when I figured out that people were actually planting seeds and figured out that if you harvest something, you plant something, I stopped taking anything. Because I didn't want to spend my currants on seeds :P Then! When I finally figured out that you could get seeds from pigs I had a huge 'aha!' moment. 

    I still don't harvest from the community gardens because I have a house and don't need to, but I do like the idea of people that have plenty randomly planting things, or as Oiorpata mentioned leaving tools there. I actually recall seeing a couple of those tools :D (again, I assumed that they were spawned by the game, not made by someone) I didn't take them as I didn't need them, but it's a wonderful idea.

    Anyway, I wonder if there should be a quest once you enter the community gardens? To harvest something (if there is anything to harvest), but then to also get seeds from a pig, hoe the ground, plant seeds and water them. Perhaps then people would understand more how the gardens can function?
    Posted 15 months ago by Serilyn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I tend to avoid community gardens these days.  Unless I'm planting something and don't care what happens to the produce.  I've used community gardens once, trying to finish a quest.  Standing guard over the crops and/or leaving a note does not help.  I left a note saying these produce were for a quest, but when I came back, the produce was gone and so was the note.  *shrugs*  If I want to grow stuff I'll either get a friend with a house to do it for me or get a house myself.
    Posted 15 months ago by Daffy Lurksalot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It took me quite a while to realise that the garden plots were being tended by individuals who expected to reap what they had sown. First time I wandered into the community gardens I picked everything that was ready to harvest, watered and hoed all the plots that wanted it, and when told I needed seeds toddled off to the vendor only - to be horrified by how expensive they were, and doubly horrified when one packet of seeds only sufficed to plant one tiny square in the gardens. (Last time I bought cabbage seeds in real life they were cheap, there were 300 of them in the envelope and the germination rate was around 90%, and, while I'm grumbling, whoever thought it would be a good idea to put manure on carrots? Tut tut.)

    I was also guilty of wandering around and hoovering up anything found on the ground. I remember exploring a housing district and finding tiny glasses of flaming drinks outside every door, which I happily picked up and sold to the nearest vendor to increase my pitiful supply of currants. Imagine my chagrin when I got round to reading the forums and found people fuming about how greedy glitches had stolen all the gifts they had left out for their neighbours? 

    Later on I visited herb gardens, with some herb seeds to plant. There were other glitches there, but I had no idea they were waiting for particular harvests. As soon as a herb sprouted I went and harvested it, planted my own seeds,  kept one of the harvested plants for myself and dropped the others on the ground in case the person who had planted them needed them for a specific reason. Once I'd got some of each herb to try and planted all my own seeds I pootled off without any thought of returning to collect the plants I  had sown, leaving them for someone else to come and do the same. 

    I've got serious form on the charge of not replying when people message me in the game. Multitasking does not come naturally to an old duffer like myself, and the chat window is off to the side, away from the game action. I was so busy trying to move my glitch and interact with blue glowing items that I didn't pay it any heed for the first few weeks of play. I'm a bit better now, but my reaction times are slow and I can't type quickly, nor do I always have total control over the movements my glitch makes, (accidentally clicking on the game window sends the little bugger scuttling off) so I probably come across as very rude or unfriendly. 

    On behalf of all bumbling duffers playing the game I plead incompetence and beg for mercy, don't ascribe to malice what can plausibly be put down to ignorance, and when you get a bit older your blood pressure will thank you for it :-)
    Posted 15 months ago by Oiorpata Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You get seeds from pigs? o.0
    I know what I'll be trying out when the servers come back up!

    I concur with those who say it's not that obvious how it works; I had more or less figured it out (this 2 day test was my 2nd short stint in Ur) but I like to try & figure stuff like that out; many don't. And it was only just beginning to register that you can leave stuff on the ground, hadn't realised it stays a long time. So while some stealing may be stealing, it may often be simple ignorance.

    (For the record, I hoed & watered a few plots, and took 1 tomato ;) )

    edit: I also find the chat window less ... helpful ... than in some other games and am only beginning to get used to it.
    (No those annoying noises don't help; there are too many.)
    Posted 15 months ago by Jadzia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Basic Seed Information

    Piggies when fed with one type of (same) vegetable 3 times will poop, you must examine the poop and it will turn into a package of seeds of the vegetable you fed the piggy.  You can feed the same piggy over and over but it must be the same vegetable 3 times.  

    This does not work for beans or cherries which must be picked from trees.  When fed to piggies no matter how many times no seeds.

    Herb/flowers seeds do not come from piggies you must make the seeds yourself by shucking a flower.  When you munch these seeds, eat, you get the effect of the flower but not any seeds.  Purple flowers are just plain fun to munch, the other flowers have various effects.

    Seeds are expensive and what you receive in harvest varies according to what your skill levels are.

    happy gardening   :)
    Posted 15 months ago by xoxJulie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This thread is largely things I already know. And I'm not 100% surprised by this occurring just after the reset. Besides broken hoes, I think we forget how little energy we had at low levels. I wouldn't be surprised by people not clearing the plots because they expended so much energy harvesting and didn't want to spend that much over again cleaning up after themselves -- especially if they're grabbing up all the crops because they're completely dry on energy.

    And more for Splendora than anything else -- right now, I have other priorities that don't really include gardening. I have a home, and when I start to garden I'll do it there, as I have a reasonable number of plots. But I prefer houses with crop gardens, and I'm a bit of a completionist. At some point, I will want the achievements for planting herbs. Eventually I will conform to your model 4, at least for the herb gardens. I intend to come, plant a little batch of herbs -- still leave empty plots for others -- and maybe grab a fully grown plant or two to turn into seeds for my next trip by. I really hope this will be beneficial to other players, but that's likely all I can do.
    Posted 15 months ago by Haiku Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Haiku - Thanks. I do end up wondering about these things, so I appreciate your thoughtful response. Like you, I gravitate towards model 4. However, it's not always possible for a community to achieve a model that requires a high level of cooperation, even if it produces better results for everyone than a model requiring a lower level of cooperation. As you note, the level of resources available to people matters. 

    Knowledge also matters.  Like some of the other posters here, when I first started, I thought everything I could pick up was a gift from the gods or something someone had discarded.  I was still a newbie on EOTW day, and I thought people were dropping food and other items to help people like me make it to a prime level.  I suspect I ate some artwork without realizing it.

    xoxJulie - I really appreciate the explanation of how to get pigs to produce seeds.  I'd heard that you needed to feed pigs enough to make them ploop, but I didn't know it had to be the same thing three times in a row.  I fed this one durn pig all kinds of stuff hoping to see something come out, and all I got was happy pig talk.
    Posted 15 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Before the reset, I would rarely find more than maybe 3 ready plots at a time, and a lot of the time the entire garden was full so I wouldn't necessarily automatically replant the amount I had taken. This was in part because I know that some people want to plant for quests/badges, and in part because I also used to water/tend every single plot in the garden, and felt that 100+ energy to tend was probably contributing enough :P

    This test, I agree that it was quite sparse, but I know why that is. We are all little wimps, and nobody is there to say "I'll do stuff to this garden to help the lower levels" because we are all the lower levels.
    This time, instead of choosing to water+tend, I chose to give up 3 of each crop I harvested to make seeds to plant. It worked better within my abilities than tending at the time.

    What I'm trying to say is that our playing styles often reflect upon our abilities in-game, and this test should not be an indicator of our community spirit but rather our temporary feelings of being incapable of doing what we used to do.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink