Topic

Up arrow no longer works instead of Enter (update: they mostly restored it)

You used to be able to use the up arrow to select items, instead of hitting the Enter key. (Note that inside a menu, the arrows always move you around the menu options, both then and now.)  Many of us got used to using this.  In particular, I find it much more natural than hitting Enter.  Some people using wasd for arrows apparently liked it a lot too.

This has now been (intentionally) disabled.  I'm grumpy about it.  Kevbob sent me to the forums to be grumpy.  Here we are.

Posted 16 months ago by larky lion Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • #$%????????
    this makes no sense! people use this arrows a lot, much more easy to interact with things!
    I don't understand why you guys did this!?

    ....
    Posted 16 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am waiting for a stoot post about how it will be more fun this way ;)  

    (Yes, I can still make jokes when I am grumpy.)
    Posted 16 months ago by larky lion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, I can no longer use up arrow to select street signs. That does make me grumpy.
    Posted 16 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • OMG please I need those arrows, Why would you intentionally disable this? I use my arrow keys and cannot find my enter key - being without my arrow to select has thrown my whole game off and I cannot select things  Please please please with sugar and spice on it, please enable our arrow keys again to select things, some of us rely on those keys... I have NEVER used the wasd keys, don't even know how I would begin to try familiarizing myself with those, I use the enter key on my keypad please... just let my little up arrow to select things work again.. 
    please...??
    Posted 16 months ago by Chicalet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps they've decided that the mouse is a bigger part of this game and are phasing out keyboard navigation.
    Posted 16 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bah. I can't get through doors that way either. That's really annoying.
    Posted 16 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I already miss the up arrow for enter menu, it´s very useful, specially while jumping.
    Is there a possible way to make us on/off it?
    I'm so sad about losing it, the game suddenly become stranger :(
    Posted 16 months ago by acreditando Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh my god, I just noticed this.

    ARGH. Le grumpy.
    Posted 16 months ago by LitaPie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep, don't like it either.  :(
    Posted 16 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd just gotten used to using the up arrow instead of enter. Oh well.
    Posted 16 months ago by duien Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not to be melodramatic or anything, but this is probably my least favourite change to the game ever...
    Posted 16 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sigh......
    Posted 16 months ago by Chicalet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think you mean "grr".  Put that grumpy face on your little glitch.
    Posted 16 months ago by larky lion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This made me a little angry, first no one told anyone, I thought it was a bug in the beginning, asked for help in live channel and devs were looking into it, then a dev came and said, No more arrows for selecting objects folks ....

    I think people that play this game deserve a little more respect then that. If devs really played the game they would know that up arrows are really useful for interacting with objects.

    Sorry but I had to express myself, this was not the first time that I felt disrespected by a dev.
    Posted 16 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • dammit, i liked that feature. 
    Posted 16 months ago by IxÆoN Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Interesting!

    There was only 1 (of 30+) people on the team who liked have the up arrow open menus and it was irritating to everyone else since menus would accidentally open all the time.

    There are two cases we know of where you don't have to use enter in addition to the up arrow: signposts with a single sign and doors. In both those cases, accidentally changing locations seems much worse than having to press enter instead of the up arrow.

    In every other case, you have to commit your choice with the enter key anyway so it is hard to understand the difference. Help me understand!

    (Also, of course we are not phasing out keyboard control — pretty much everyone who works here uses the keyboard exclusively.)
    Posted 16 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You and me both liked this feature.. I cannot function anymore... must be we were able to do things too fast using arrows or something I don't know...
    I am unhappy 
    Posted 16 months ago by Chicalet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot, people use arrow keys a lot, to walk around, to move, etc, its the most used keys, so is much easier to use the up key to interact because you are already using them for other things...

    walk use up key, walk, use up key....
    Posted 16 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, for me personally, I think the best explanation is that I consider going through doors and signposts part of walking around, so I want to be able to do that with the walking around (i.e. arrow) keys.  

    Now that you mention it, I guess I am neutral about using the up arrow for enter in the other cases.
    Posted 16 months ago by larky lion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Arizoo: Yes … that's why we changed it: because the arrow keys are used for movements and accidentally triggering menus when you don't want them is frustrating.

    But, is there something you can do with the up arrow that doesn't ALSO require you to use the enter key at the end (other than single-sign singposts and doors)?
    Posted 16 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wait, I take it back.  For animals and trees (and whatever), up is still better to start the process.  You use up to select and then move through the menu, THEN Enter to select.  Instead of Enter-arrows-Enter.  The going back and forth is annoying.
    Posted 16 months ago by larky lion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, I´m pretty sure that if you talk to someone that plays this game a lot, they use up arrows to interact with things, just because is much more faster than using enter...

    I can interact with everything using the up key, then if i don't want to interact just use the left or right key and I'm off to do something else.
    Posted 16 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • agree with larky
    Posted 16 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I needed to sit and twiddle my hands on the keyboard for a minute or two to understand why this bothered me so much. I think it's because the middle three fingers of my right hand rest naturally on the left, up, right arrow keys, and use those to navigate around the world. Moving from that rest position to perform an action breaks continuity.

    So, the two use cases that bother me the most are:

    - Doors. I used to be able to move around my three-story Alakol house without lifting my hand from its rest position. I can't do that any more.

    - Signs. Single choice signs were easy. Again, my hand never left it's rest position. Multiple choice signs let me move up to the sign and choose a destination, and only have to lift my hand from it's rest position to confirm the final choice. That wasn't a big deal - it triggered a whole street load, so that break in continuity happened in the world as well as on the keyboard.

    Now, there is no longer a simple 'rest' position. Simple navigation through the world now requires more co-ordinated movements. It's not the end of the world, but it is rather irritating.
    Posted 16 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Up arrow to select has the advantage of letting you hit it, TWICE, without accidentaly triggering the first option.

    I'm always overclicking, I'm always missing with my first attempt to catch a butterfly. Sometimes I hit up 10 times to catch a butterfly. If I hit enter 10 times, what HAVE I done to it?
    Posted 16 months ago by ICountFrom0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We will continue to think about, and maybe even put it back (in a more limited way).
    Posted 16 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I, for one, welcome the change, So many times I tried to climb a tree/ladder and then i would get a menu pop up. Often I have felt it should be jump.

    I think I am mainly in support because I'm using a laptop with the d-pad directly under shift/enter so doing that one handed from the same position is easy.
    Posted 16 months ago by bobzarkoff Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot, can you make it like an option, so people can choose what to use?
    Posted 16 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • gimme ma key back please, me sad :(

    Seriously.
    Posted 16 months ago by monself Subscriber! | Permalink
  • maybe a numpad set of keys with old "up" on '0' or old up function on control or shift?

    The ability to select without triggering was VERY useful, if only to some of us.
    Posted 16 months ago by ICountFrom0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd got used to using it for doors, but not much else; I *do* miss it for that though.

    <edit: it seems I used this far more than I thought - I can't seem to stop trying to select garden plots with the up button!>
    Posted 16 months ago by Katchen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Please make this an interface option.  It took me about 12 seconds of playing glitch this test to notice it was go.

    Using the WASD keys in combination with my mouse meant i rarely had to re-position my hands (except to chat).   Now I either have to let go of the mouse to press enter, or move my WASD hand off they movement keys.  

    <sadface>
    Posted 16 months ago by Vicereine Linnæa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm like Dopiaza, my right hand rests naturally on the arrow keys. My left hand is used for my mouse. I use the up arrow (USED-dammit) to select things and interact with things using the up down side arrows when the menu opened, if I got a menu I didn't want a simple out arrow would take the menu away. I am seriously having a harder time without my up arrow to select things. I don't naturally have my hand ON the keyboard where the enter key is, I use the keypad enter key while using the arrows, so this is an extra step now to enter first....I know people say use the asdf keys ( never could get used to those keys to move or anything) it doesn't work for me. I miss the up arrow terribly. It's hard for me to explain how I play and interact with things to make anyone else understand. Whatever....I can't explain except i have a huge gigantic SADFACE now.
    Posted 16 months ago by Chicalet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm with larky. It took me awhile to figure out that I wasn't lagged, the up arrow just wasn't working. (Using the doors in my house.) There's  nothing you can do with the up arrow that you can't do with enter, it's just more convenient because it's closer than the enter key and seems to be a more natural move. 
    Posted 16 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I want the up key to work again, please! I stood at my door forever trying to get out, finally clicked on the door! Never thought of using the enter key!
    Posted 16 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I want the up arrow to work again too. 
    Posted 16 months ago by Chicalet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for up arrow to work again. I much prefer it over the enter key, since my hand is already on the arrows.
    Posted 16 months ago by Mocha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ARGH! 
    I just took apart my keyboard after restarting over and over to see what's wrong with my up-arrow!
    I use it to catch butterflies, and to start EVERYTHING I do in my house.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put this back! It is driving me INSANE!!!!!
    Posted 16 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I much prefer the up arrow to the enter key. It just makes more sense to me, game-play-wise.

    Just adding my 2 currants.
    Posted 16 months ago by Sparky Foofaraw Subscriber! | Permalink
  • OK, just read through stoot's explanation. Can't you make it some sort of setting for players who prefer it, instead of just unilaterally making ALL of us change to one preference, if some of us like it the other way? (just listened to Malcolm Gladwell's TED talk on how diversity in choices is a GOOD thing! There is no such thing as ONE best spaghetti sauce! Go watch it, stoot... I suspect you'd really enjoy it!)
    Posted 16 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • On the up side, I can now use the up and down arrows (and w,s) to navigate through stacks of items in my home, this is AWESOME.
    Posted 16 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • OK, we're going to try something! If you reload now, you'll find the up key is back to the way it was EXCEPT if all the blue glowing things you are intersecting with are avatars; in that case it does nothing. The enter key still gives you a menu though.

    This maybe gives people the best of both worlds, where in most cases the up key behaves as it used to, but you don't get frustrated in Game of Thrones and the like when trying to get on ladders around lots of people.

    We'll see!

    (Glad you noticed that Skwid!)
    Posted 16 months ago by eric Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I was just coming back to thank you for the improved arrow navigation in the items lists.... BUT

    They seem to wrap around the screen on the same line, instead of going to the next line down when you continue to scroll through the list. Can this be fixed? Do you understand what I'm asking?
    Posted 16 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • tx ;)
    Posted 16 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand what you are asking Lilith, and to be honest I did it that way because when using the up/down keys there are complicated edge cases with what should happen when the last row is not as long as the other rows... and I am lazy. But I will see if I can get that working more better.
    Posted 16 months ago by eric Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks, Eric. I'm actually quite amazed at what you guys pull off here. The wrap-around thing used to work when the up/down arrows didn't, though, so I'm certain you'll be able to slap it into shape for this version, too!

    And thank you for giving us back the up-arrow. I experimented while looking at my hands... it's really useful for when I'm moving around in crowds of animals/things; I use the index, middle and ring fingers of the right hand to navigate and choose items, and the ring to jump up to hit Enter when needed. I don't use the ring finger very much otherwise; I really think ergonomically keeping the up-arrow the way you had it originally made more sense. While using Enter to do the same things would have worked eventually, I think it would have caused more stress on the hands in the long run, at least how I play the game.

    Also... "lazy" is not an adjective I would apply to any TS employee these days!
    Posted 16 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Imagine one of those adorable contented tree sighs here.  Un-grumpy again!  Of course, maybe the margarita helped too ;)
    Posted 16 months ago by larky lion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I support the decition, Enter key is to "confirm" commands anyways. Arrows are better alone for moving around. Give it a while and we'll get use to hit enter.
    Posted 16 months ago by lexihel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As for, right/left arrow keys when used to navigate menus of lots of items, those are now back to jumping to the next/previous row when you hit the end/beginning of a row. I'm not not totally sure if the up/down keys should get the same behavior, so for now, they don't.
    Posted 16 months ago by eric Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lilith, I'll watch Malcolm Gladwell's TED talk about about how more choices are better if you listen to Barry Schwartz's TED talk about how more choices make us unhappy (or read his book, the Paradox of Choice).

    And, the difference between software that is pleasant to use and software that is difficult, confusing or unpleasant to use can usually be indicated by the number of preferences and how up-front they are (it may not be caused by having more preferences, but they are certainly correlated). So, whenever possible, I avoid preferences ;)
    Posted 16 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
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