Topic

Staff Topic

Changes, Nerfs, New Features and What's Happening

We have made many changes since launch. When we starting designing the underlying systems which power Glitch, one of the fundamental design goals was that changing anything, even while the game is running, should be as easy as possible. This was because we knew that no amount of Alpha or Beta or anything would get us to a version of the game that was "done".

Glitch 1.0, the launch day version, is like 1.0 of (hopefully!) any successful software product: the very first iteration that is "good enough" for public consumption. Everyone knows that the first "really good" good version is 3.0. By that scale, we are now 1.003 ;)

Some of the changes we make will be loved by more or less all players. Some will be met mostly with indifference by current players, but will make the experience better for new players. Others will be liked by some and not liked by others. But we will make changes that are loved by many and hated by few … or even loved by few and hated by many — just hopefully not many that are hated by everyone ;)

If you are reading this, it is likely that we will, from time to time, make changes that you hate. Maybe we did earlier today, or last week or at some other point in the past. We are sorry about this. We truly, earnestly, and with the best possible intentions want to bring joy and wonder and the pleasure of good company to people, not frustrate them, or make them feel punished or cheated or duped.

But, we need to make the best decisions for the game, for the majority of players … the things which make the most sense, the things that seem right. Sometimes we will be mistaken: sometimes we'll have bad data, other times we will just goof up.

When we are mistaken, we will always do our best to fix it. And when we truly believe  a change is for the best, we will stick with it, even if it makes some people mad because we think, in the long run, more people will have more fun (including, often, the people who were mad about the change when it first happened).

 * * *

We have been been nerfing a lot of stuff. Mostly, it works like this: we find dynamics in the game which create massively outsized incentives for people do something SO repetitive and boring that we can't believe they won't end up hating Glitch if they keep doing it (but they will keep doing it if nothing changes, because it is insanely profitable in the game).

For example: a player who made over 500,000 currants in a day turning milk to very, very stinky cheese while on no-no powder. Or several players who got 100s of 1,000s of XP from singing to butterflies after having consumed gurly drinks.  

If we don't change these dynamics, a very small set of "optimal" behaviors will end up dominating most players' time in the game, and hence their experience of the game. And since the rewards are so big, the result of their behavior will be felt by other players in terms of inflation and distortions in the economy.

(We want to move to floating prices and reduce the number of things vendors sell, to create a more interesting player-player economy, but if a handful of players can produce effectively infinite money, that won't always work.)

 * * *

In addition to the price of cheese or teleportation scripts, the number of offers given by The Rube, the number of times you can do X action in a game day, etc., there are more complicated issues, like mining, bonuses, and places like Ajaya Bliss. In the case of Ajaya, we need to avoid having one location in the game that is "overpowered" vs all other locations (we also don't want a homogenous world, but that's another issue).

A combination of factors lead to an overpowered "optimal set of actions" in Ajaya Bliss. As a by-product of that, a great community developed where people were working together and co-ordinating, planning, discussing, strategizing, etc. We needed to break the pattern a bit and as a by-product of that, we might have screwed up an interesting emergent bit of play and a cool community hub.

The latter was definitely not our intention or the purpose of the changes. But, the lesson we took away was: we need to REALLY get moving on dynamics which give larger, co-ordinated/co-operating groups of players a reward that has at least as much (or more) in-game incentive as comparable solo activities.

We are working hard on that: most of our biggest projects now involved groups/group activities. We believe we have very good things cooking in that regard and most of our recent design conversations are about that very topic.

We also have many other features and bits of content in various states of completion (including a few in final QA, so "soon, soon") and we are looking extremely hard at all the qualitative and quantitative data we can get our eyeballs on.

During the first month after beta (we're a week in now) we know we have to be 70% "on deck" for issues that arise as we grow, scaling, support for new players, improving abuse report processes, new bugs from the increased load, etc., etc. But in the 30% we have for moving older high-priority projects along or introducing new smaller features & content, we will really do our honest best to make something that you love.

Love,

— The Whole Team

Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I'm fully supportive of stoot and the TSers on the need to identify and moderate obvious distortions in gameplay before they get embedded. With a little petition: when gardening got nerfed in beta, it felt as if it broke herdkeeping / planting / food prep as a less grindy currant-generation strategy than mining, especially in the context of projects that either directly required food items, or projecteers who benefitted from catering. There are going to be points where players feel necessitated to grind, and having non-mining options would be useful. I have no problem with mining being the most rewarding for repetition and perseverance (and now, collaboration) but I'd be happy not feeling the need to compete with die-hard miners.

    I'm with Ximinez on the Rube: fewer visits, and more delightful Rubishness please.
    Posted 14 months ago by Holgate Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Its just economics folks...at this time we need the nerfs to some things otherwise the currency is going to be devalued and everything else will need to be buffed in order to remain relevant. 

    In time as Glitches make more items and vendors buy fewer items it will get interesting indeed.  eg. Imagine what would happen today if vendors didn't buy any of the proceeds of mining.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pixelhack Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just to be clear: I don't actually care about the lack of gameshow tickets in and of itself.  I care that the funny little joys of the game are becoming fewer and further between, and that any time we find some cool way of generating XP, currants, or what have you, the staff will take it away in the name of balancing. 

    Here's another example: I've lost count of how many people have asked why their butterflies are dying after two or three days.  The answer is that the more you milk a butterfly, the more quickly it dies, so when you install an automatic milker, they die much faster.  Yes, this creates more "balance," but it's also a downer. 
    Posted 14 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 10/10 for the constant updates and communication from the staff to the players... ty for that :) x 

    Although I did my best to read and understand it all, some of it sounded just a wee but too technical for me. but I trust it is all for the best, because lets face it guys, the staff are not going to put in place something horrible "just cos"  ..  After all they work day and night to make a totally successful game for all to enjoy, and I have every faith in the whole team to keep up that level of standard..So well done guys and keep up the good work. x

    Ajaya.. Why not just open up an area solely for the purpose of co-op miners, where they have to "join" for a set time per day...to mine as a group...thus keeping us more relaxed, casual miners out of the way..unless we decide we want to co-op mine, but would have to co-operate if we entered, if not  .. we get our asses auto booted out of that area/hub/room/cave...whichever it became. :D  x  
    Posted 14 months ago by Cryztal Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 10/10 for the constant updates and communication from the staff to the players... ty for that :) x 

    Although I did my best to read and understand it all, some of it sounded just a wee but too technical for me. but I trust it is all for the best, because lets face it guys, the staff are not going to put in place something horrible "just cos"  ..  After all they work day and night to make a totally successful game for all to enjoy, and I have every faith in the whole team to keep up that level of standard..So well done guys and keep up the good work. x

    Ajaya.. Why not just open up an area solely for the purpose of co-op miners, where they have to "join" for a set time per day...to mine as a group...thus keeping us more relaxed, casual miners out of the way..unless we decide we want to co-op mine, but would have to co-operate if we entered, if not  .. we get our asses auto booted out of that area/hub/room/cave...whichever it became. :D  x  
    Posted 14 months ago by Cryztal Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hooray quantity picker! TS you rock!
    Posted 14 months ago by Avery♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's a good idea on Ajaya, Cryztal.  You could have a canary coughing in the mine, showing you how much time you have left before you've got to leave, like the Jujuland timer.

    Or...maybe something less morbid.

    Of course, I don't like Ajaya at all, so if this would piss people off to no end, feel free to ignore me, but it seems like this would make the place a special treat, as opposed to a nice perk that needs to be plowed under.
    Posted 14 months ago by Biff Beefbat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So, stoot... I am just wondering about the currently frozen leaderboards, in light of this post. There was such a sense of "woo, you go girl!" for Clare when she hit 100 during beta (I think she even got a special, one-time badge from it, right?), but the above-mentioned nerfing and the frozen boards are making me think perhaps you are wanting to discourage players from focusing on leveling/achievements. There are so many different ways to play this game... that's part of its beauty! ... and people like Clare and Rascalmom enjoy playing for those fanfares, with your explicit encouragement via that achievement and the leaderboards. Why would you focus on discouraging them? Isn't leveling/racking up achievements a legitimate reason to play? Is there fear that once the highest levels/# of achievements are reached, those players would drop the game? Can you even imagine Glitch without RM? I can't!

    These ideas are fascinating to me... trying to subtly alter the direction of the game via certain mechanics, and the unintended consequences. I understand the concept of sacrificing the desires of the few for the good of the many... still, it's early on in the life of the open world, and I would encourage you to continue moving slowly... tiny increments could create huge shifts very quickly while driving on the launched freeway compared to the relatively bucolic beta road. 

    You have built the magnificent vehicle we are all riding in, and while you and your crew know how to pilot it better than any of us backseat drivers all clamoring to offer our opinions, it's so good to know you are listening at some level and taking our pitiful pleas into consideration instead of tuning us out. Thanks... it's been a terrific ride so far, and I'm in it for the whole journey!
    Posted 14 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand exactly what you are saying glum, I felt the same way about the randomization of spawn patterns, since I had been following the pattern since ajaya opened and it was one of those fun things for me. But as far as as musicblocks I just end up donating our selling them anyways. My point being the little fun things are different for everyone. Hopefully staff will introduce more of the little things like this (like the cubimals) and it will even out
    Posted 14 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for the update :)

    Most people dislike changes, and more so when they haven't thought of it themselves.
    Changes is what life is, without them, it becomes boring. Changes create new challanges, keep us fresh and sharp. They force us sometimes to look for other fun things to do, to broaden our horizons.

    Now we need to go look for new creative ways to get rich fast ;)
    Posted 14 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • OK! Some comments on various issues brought up here:

    Gameshow Tickets (from donations): we changed the rules because you used to have an equal chance on all donations, so people would donate 500 beans one at a time and collect tickets. We are planning to alter the rules a little big again to improve the chances with smaller donations (but tiny donations, like a single bean or cherry will still have no chance of a ticket).

    The Rube: not sure what to say … we have tripled checked and, other than the cubimal having a smaller chance of being offered (which was a very recent addition anyway) and the limit of five chances, the kinds of trades are the same (they were different for a matter of hours when we introduced the limit, but were reverted right away). We could make it show up more rarely for hardcore players, but the balance is pretty good right now for newer players.

    Musicblocks: we are still tweaking and adjusting the rates of getting them for various activities (this is harder to balance because of the collection-forming and the sheer number of ways to get them).

    Mining vs Other Skills: The animal-based skills and cooking are overdue for some enhancements, but I think they will benefit the most from the macro economic changes we'll make over the next few months. (Heads up: at least some things players can make will stop being offered from vendors "soon".)

    No Teleport to Key Locked Locations: I stand by this one. Having waited while a group formed around someone with a key outside Ajaya last night, and experienced the camaraderie and co-ordination leading up to the entrance, and then watching new groups of people enter periodically, I think the experience is just better.

    It is less fun for Plexus, but with summoning, it just means a bit more communication between people to get the same result and it's more of a special occasion. I get that some will disagree, but … such is life. It is better for the game and the whole variety of key-locked locations in the long run. And, in any case, an upcoming feature will make this much less of an issue.

    How "Big" Each Change Is: Here's a post by a designer who worked on the Civilization games with Sid Meier (a legendary game maker) explaining Sid's "Double it or Cut it by Half" rule of thumb for game design. It might be an interesting read. We follow that philosophy because "triangulating" on the right design with larger steps makes it much easier to find the right balance. Eventually, when you are close, you can make very small incremental tweaks.
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lilith, re "Why would you focus on discouraging them?" — I'd hope it'd be obvious from everything else I've said, but of course we are not "focused on discouraging" anyone (let alone two specific players). We are focused on making Glitch the best it can be. Sometimes we will make the wrong decisions (and hopefully recognize that and fix them!) and other times we will make the right decisions, but some players won't like them. It's part of the job!
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As a fairly new player, i've generally "missed the boat" on these XP/Money making schemes...unfortunately the overall effect is that i am lagging behind because im not keeping up with the emergent gameplay.

    I constantly struggle to earn any money, i gather a lot of items like grain and milk and cherries, i use all my energy up doing that, then i eat the produce that i've made. im self financing myself and my bank balance remains the same, i can't see a time when i will be earning enough to buy the house i want.

    Whereas other people are hitting 50k+ a day with ease....i can't just be a noob, what am i missing?

    Luckily, the time i have been playing, i've learnt a lot of skills, whether i get to use them is another story :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Aayla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • About the Rube: I guess perception is everything.

    Before, when the Rube almost never appeared, if I couldn't get a good deal I thought that I screwed it up somehow.

    Now I've had a few more encounters, and I guess I found out that the Rube is not so great as I thought he was. And this is enough for me not to wait for him so eagerly.

    I don't mean this to be important, other than a warning about how changes impact.

    The thing is, when the Rube arrives we have this fine music and all, not a simple warning we can easily ignore, and that's how he may become annoying in the near future.

    I understand how this may apply to sort-of-hardcore players, and not to new ones. Maybe it would be very good to have the Rube appear mostly to low-level players!
    Posted 14 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am continually humbled by your willingness to interact with your players. It was a part of beta that I was afraid would dissolve after launch. I am thrilled to see it is otherwise.

    Off to read that game design post...

    (And I am happy to see the return of the leaderboards. Thank you!)
    Posted 14 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aayla, the good news is if you had 50k/day, you wouldn't know what to do with it.

    I rarely mine or cook and choose to "live off the land", which is pretty easy to do once you have a few skills under your belt.  The rat race is only there if you want it to be.

    The game's only been going for a week...you have plenty of time to "catch up", although there's really even no need to do that, unless that's the kind of play that turns you on.
    Posted 14 months ago by Biff Beefbat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can we get a Nerf ball to throw around? Of course it can't be an actual Nerf. I don't know... Derf? Nerp? Glerft? 
    Posted 14 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am glad for the attention TS is giving to maintaining game balance, since this will be important for sustained enjoyment by most players.  However, I hope the devs also will keep in mind that one person's "boring" may be another person's "bliss."  Repetitive activities can be stress-reducing for some folks.  Also, some achieve a sense of mastery only after much repetition (aka practice).

    As a case in point:  I am planning to involve a couple of neuro-atypical people in the game. They won't bother anyone, and I believe they'll enjoy the game while benefiting from playing. They are likely to enjoy certain repetitive "grind" activities, especially if those give them a sense of making progress in the game, albeit with appropriately balanced rewards. So if you see continued grinding, even after you've nerfed the payoffs, keep in mind that it's not necessarily boring for those who engage in it.
    Posted 14 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • On making an income -- before eating the raw materials you've harvested, it's a good idea to see whether they're selling for more at auction than their value on the info screen.

    Oh, and Lord Bacon-o, I hope they'll make us some Glerf balls!
    Posted 14 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would just like to correct "girly drinks" to "gurly drinks," because I doubt the staff would like to appear as though they are reinforcing gender stereotypes.

    Overall, I am please with these changes and greatly appreciate the staff's efforts to make this the best game possible.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The Rube: the kinds of trades are the same (they were different for a matter of hours when we introduced the limit, but were reverted right away)

    I was met by him 3 times in rapid succession I think it was 2 nights ago which (I think) was just after the changes were made. The trades offered definitely seemed sub-par but this might explain it... maybe it was before the changes were reverted. I look forward to meeting him again with renewed looking-forwardness.

    No Teleport to Key Locked Locations: I stand by this one. Having waited while a group formed around someone with a key outside Ajaya last night...

    I did this last night too and it cheered me up. I met a couple of people camping the key spawn location and, when someone grabbed the key, I asked if I could follow and was met with an "of course!" as though it was OBVIOUS that that was offered. We formed a little conga line and entered AB together to be met by welcoming choruses of "newcomers!!", "a group!!" and "yay!" from the people inside. <3

    How "Big" Each Change Is: Here's a post by a designer who worked on the Civilization games with Sid Meier (a legendary game maker) explaining Sid's "Double it or Cut it by Half"

    Agreed. Binary chop - the only way to zero in on the correct balance. Not only is it faster, you're more likely to get a reaction from the lab rats (that's us).
    Posted 14 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, you've won yourself a subscriber. I'm a sucker for forthright dealing.
    Posted 14 months ago by MrVolare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would just like to correct "girly drinks" to "gurly drinks," because I doubt the staff would like to appear as though they are reinforcing gender stereotypes.

    You see a difference?  One of the nice things about this world is the totally lack of respect for Political Correctness.  Everything is nicely in-your-face.  I'm sort of sorry to see the Mike Tyson grill go away, because it's a first hint of the creators of the game bending to an outside influence.

    The changes all seem good to me.  There is inevitably some fine-tuning needed, as the general public makes it into the world, rooms where the floor creaks and will need reinforcing, etc.
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't see a difference, really. And there isn't a lack of fairness and injustice in the game, so much. The staff have very often stood by fairness and equality. And as I have said before, "political correctness," as a term, only really means "on the inside I'm an ass but on the outside I'm going to appear fair and just." It's not politically correct to assert that men and women are inherently equal -- it's simply correct. It's not outside influence, it's the damn truth. But I'm not going to sit here and argue about it, yet again, because most people that have a problem with my assertion to change something of this sort are narrow-minded bigots who won't listen.

    However, I have thought about organizing an online collection of "signatures" within the QUILTBAG group for things we may collectively have concerns with.

    I'm almost -- ALMOST -- sorry it threatens some of you that there is this "radical" notion that maybe we really all are inherently equal. As I told my supervisor yesterday, "You and I live in 2011, and the rest of the world should, too."
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, also, the canary idea is brilliant. It's not too morbid considering that when Glitchen die they can come back, and that the Rook likes to knock out other animals cold.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ("girly" vs "gurly" was corrected a few hours ago, but I forgot to post then — thanks!)
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think that "girly drink" and "gurly drink" are different w.r.t. gender stereotypes -- and I doubt Tiny Speck does either.  "Girly drink" plays on gender stereotypes in a way that I don't really mind, but if I did mind, using a cutesy spelling wouldn't help.

    Thinking that girly/gurly is a weird point to be concerned about is not the same at all as being "threatened" by the notion of equality.
    Posted 14 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree that "gurly" is not much better, at all, but it certainly is a change, albeit a very tiny and ALMOST meaningless one. I'm still concerned about the use of the term in the game and in the game's mechanics. However, like I said, it's a change. One that I can only hope will be the first and will eventually guide the staff to rename it something fitting, though not oppressive. "Purty" drink would be wonderful, because, considering we are all equal, boys can be pretty, too. Believe me, I've met quite a few...

    ETA: INB4 all arguments that certain drinks are girly, because when I have a cosmotini I don't suddenly leave the bar with a vagina.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh gee willickers!
    Posted 14 months ago by Poppy of Detwoit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think "gurly" makes it more playful and silly, where "girly" just implies girly.  But thats off topic!  

    I just wanted to add really quickly I noticed the Rube and didn't see any less valuable items, but there were no cubimals :(, which is said cause I only used them to open and collect.  I kinda like the risk with the Rube now (should you accept it or should you try again!?)
    Posted 14 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Girly or gurly drinks, however you want to spell it, is a common term for those types of drinks in everyday life, and instantly lets everyone know what you're talking about when you use that word. I am a girl, and I'm not offended by the term at all. In fact, *most* men I've met in life prefer beer (not *all*), and the "gurly" drinks are more likely to appeal to women (although not necessarily). It is a stereotype, but it does actually apply in most cases in the real world. And it really isn't as derogatory as alot of other things out there. Plus, I think alot of men would also be turned off by other things you might want to call this particular drink, such as "purty", or "fancy", or whatever you can come up with... heck, even the fact that it is pink and fruity looking will turn off alot of people. Eh, whatever. It's not for everyone. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Shepherdmoon, if the term didn't have real-world applications I wouldn't give a damn. That's the problem -- that it is a part of everyday life. Part of everyday life for a high schooler, in some areas, means that he may have to hear the word "faggot" or "gay" (as a pejorative) everyday because that's part of the culture. That doesn't make it okay. It's things like that that need to change. The status quo is not equivalent to what is right.

    Are you offended by the idea of changing it? I don't see how it could harm anyone to change it. But I do see the potential for harm for leaving it the way it is. You may not be offended by it, but I certainly am, and your voice is no lesser or greater than mine. It is equal.

    ETA: I will reiterate that having a penis does not make me less likely to be seen with a cosmotini.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cerulean, I'm not offended by the idea of changing it. It just seemed like an apt name to me, but I don't really care in the end. I agree that everyone's opinions are important and should be respected, but there is a limit to how much Tiny Speck can change because someone is offended--someone will be offended by pretty much everything, so that is a slippery slope to start sliding down.

    By the way, I totally agree with your reiteration that having a penis doesn't make you less likely to be seen with a cosmotini... everyone should love those things. Actually, I'm not entirely sure why most men don't like fruity drinks--they taste good and they can be alot stronger than beer. Whatever, let them enjoy their "piss-water". Maybe Tiny Speck could rename beer to that :).
    Posted 14 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, after what happened to Geeki Yogini as documented in this thread: www.glitch.com/forum/genera... ; Geeki suggested changing the TOS to include sexist and homophobic language as part of the "Unwelcome content and conduct." It appeared Stoot agreed and stated he would update the TOS but I have seen no changes as of yet. Granted, I know the staff are busy, but someone is definitely keeping an eye on this. Also, if and when the TOS *are* updated to include such things, it would be rather hypocritical of the game to continue to allow "gurly" to be used to decribe a drink.

    Just saying, there has been discussion about this before, and resolutions have been agreed upon, but now it's just kind of a waiting game to see if changes really will be made or whether some of us are getting smoke blown up our butts.

    ETA: I figured *you* weren't, Shepherdmoon, but there are some people that do seem to be offended at the idea of a change... which I truly don't understand. And I completely agree with you! More men should drive Jettas and more women should go into construction, lol.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • dang it. i'm such a fan girl. that was an awesome post.
    Posted 14 months ago by emdot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmmmm.... not sure where to chime in here.   I'm an (aging) girl.   I'm in construction.   I'm Bi.   This whole "girly" drink has never been an issue for me.   Me?  I drink scotch, straight up.  If you want umbrellas in your drinks with silly names, go for it!   Frankly, I like the Girly name.  It makes me chuckle.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1

    :) You're doing a great job, devs. I totally trust you to make the best decision for the good of the whole community, even though sometimes we might not like it. It's like when your mom tells you to eat your veggies.
    Posted 14 months ago by Arii Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If people get their panties in a twist over "girly" but not "gurly" - or their jock straps - all I can say is, they must be blessed in life to have so few problems that this is the one they focus on.  Good heavens.

    On another note, I hope that the devs don't change things in the game because a few people object.  There's too much political correctness in our world as it is, and a world ruled by tyranny of the minority would be unpleasant.

    I loved the Mike Tyson grill name.  Famous Pugilist just doesn't  have the same punch (so to speak).
    Posted 14 months ago by Merrilea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks stoot, great post.  As for the 'gurly drinks' discussion - I am female, and I don't mind it.  In the society we are in, it is a recognised term and has connotations that are ripe for making jokes about.  I actually have a very different experience to Shepherdmoon - most of my female friends are real ale drinkers, and a good number of my male friends drink cocktails - but I don't think anecdotes such as these really have a bearing.  However, I certainly wouldn't mind it being changed if a funny alternative could be found, and perhaps it would help the general discourse of our society move away from strange unfounded gender biases.  But until an equally amusing name is found, I'm cool with it, it's funny.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cindy Electronium Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't believe you will forget us Stoot, but please remember that us anti-social-groups-bigger-than-two-are-scary kind of people still want to have a little fun too.

    One of the problems in the "mainstream" MMO gaming world is the basically automatic assumption that multiplayer automatically means players must group to accomplish tasks.  All rewards of any "high coolness factor"  are only available to end game raiding with 12 or 24 or more people.

    I like the fact that I can get just as many chunks and the same mining rewards as the Ajaya chain miners solo - I am more than willing to take longer.  That alone, that equality between solo and group activities (that group activities have zero advantage except social,) is what caused you to get my $90 US.

    I do agree though that this immediacy of response post-beta is refreshing and I look forward to the communication continuing into the future.

    ~~TJ Fuzzybut
    Posted 14 months ago by Thaddeus J Fuzzybut Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you so much for letting us know!!  :D

    I super appreciate you guys and the game for so many reasons!!!  

    FWIW:  I'm a chick who works as a backstage as a technician and I drink bourbon served neat IRL.  I am not offended in the least that they labeled one of the drinks "gurly"; I think it's hilarious!  :-D  (By the by - I have had women get very angry at me for referring to women as "chicks"...)  
    Posted 14 months ago by Reba Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am sort of with TJ Fuzzybutt, in that I am not naturally a social gamer, but one thing I like about this game is that you can just put a call out for people to associate with and accomplish something, rather than being forced into either a permanent alliance (best case scenario) or pestering your real life friends to help you over and over again (worst case scenario).

    As I say, 'gurly drink' is not really offensive to me, and I have been known to be an uber-feminist extremo.  But I think *on the proviso that something at least equally entertaining is the replacement* it could be replaced without harm, and all instances where we can quit gender-essentialism, even comedy gender-essentialism, are good.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cindy Electronium Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gurly Drink sounds fun and playful in the game. I don't even mind the term girly drink IRL, unless someone is using it in a condescending tone, particularly one implying it's a "sissy drink", type of drink that men shouldn't drink or something else just as silly. That will ruffle my feathers.

    Parrow: I think the grill was mostly changed because some of the devs didn't really care for the name they had on it in the beginning and a comment by a player helped their decision to make a change. That's what I got from the dev comment explaining the change, anyway.

    And while I'm not too concerned about that issue becoming a problem either, TJ, I fully support that sentiment. I mostly like doing stuff by myself. I'd like to see a lot of stuff that can be enhanced by group work, but isn't penalized or impossible for solo work.
    Posted 14 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stewart... ask and ye shall receive. you also win 1 internets today. good job. also you reminded me of bilbo baggins when you were talking about who hated and liked things. idk. just thought i'd throw that in there.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd like to offer an experience-based anecdotal support for Cerulean here. I have no stats or even any proof that this happens to anyone other than me.

    I love drinking everything when I go out. I like the fruity, sweet drinks. I love beer. I dig wine. I drink a fair amount of harder boozes, novelty spirits, and water. I mix it up. 

    I like all kinds of booze. I'm queer. I've not always been 100% sure about my gender, but I'm relatively sure I'm a cis male, as that's how I'm most comfortable functioning. I can't count the amount of "girly" drinks I've had in public, but I can count on one hand the amount of times my manhood has been called into question because I was drinking one. I can remember all three times perfectly. Because one ended with a split lip, one ended with a black eye, and one ended with me sprinting full-speed down a deserted road in Cedar Rapids and hiding in some bushes until I could catch my breath again.

    Two of those times I just couldn't keep my mouth shut and effectively escalated the situation myself. But the split lip was special to me in that all I had to do was drink a pina colada with an umbrella in it while also being smaller and Asian and obviously queer. I looked in a very drunk guy's general direction and balked when he asked me if I had tits to go with that umbrella. I guess I didn't answer quickly enough because he hit me in the face. Yeah. I don't know. He was drunk.

    I know nobody else who has ever had this problem. I have bad luck with bigots, while being lucky enough not to have anything serious happen to me.  

    I really have no opinion about girly vs. gurly as far as the game is concerned, but I thought I could offer perspective re: how it could be a problem, not so much on a sexist-only level, but on a sexist and homophobic level. They can be a tool of upholding the status quo. The status quo is not always a good thing.

    I do know an awful lot of both gay and straight men who refuse to drink girly drinks in public. Why? Because they have a stigma attached, and that stigma can lead to emasculation. I also know a lot of men who don't give a flying f***.

    I feel like this is a major derail. I'm sorry. But I've gone through all the time to type it now, so *Post Reply*.
    Posted 14 months ago by Kazak Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand the reasons that you change the certain things you do.  I approve.  :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Serra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As long as Tiny Speck doesn't turn into a money-hoarding hypocritcal piece of guano like JaGex, I'm fine with what they do.

    +1 glum pudding.
    Posted 14 months ago by Piratice Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One of the reasons I am so sensitive to the issue is because I represent my agency in a city-wide male-violence prevention effort and team. Not only that, but I have long been a feminist and an equalist. Then throw all of the other various things I described in the QUILTBAG post with regards to my sensitivities to issues of gender and sexuality into the mix. Not to mention that there are individuals such as Kazak (thank you so much for sharing, by the way) that ARE sensitive to these sorts of things.

    I'd also like to point out that for so many people to say "WELL I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT" isn't very useful, as an argument. If I were to suggest, in a public forum, that a wheelchair ramp be added to a building and I were in a wheelchair myself, 99 others saying "I don't have a problem with it the way it is" doesn't mean there isn't something harmful occurring. Yeah, I could probably get by without the ramp, but why should I have to?

    Why should I have to face heterosexism in a world where we're all supposed to be equal? Either way, I'm leaving this alone and stepping away from the thread. I know who my friends here really are, and I know who to watch my back with. And I know to watch for a change or to make change happen, myself. I have my eye on those Terms of Service. What has been said can't be unsaid, so I will hope Stoot and the rest of the staff will keep their word. Not that I have any reason to believe they wouldn't. So far they have been quite supportive.
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Always.Pushing.Agenda. Its a name of a drink in a VIDEO GAME. Get a grip.
    Posted 14 months ago by fishFUNK Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch is an economic simulation where the combination of resources, energy which is also a type of resource, time and skill leads to currants or XP. It has a planned economy which is managed through statistics and forecasting. From Wikipedia, "It is also difficult to detect consumer preferences, shortages and surpluses with sufficient accuracy in a planned economy". The economy is also growing due to influx of players and changes based on player activity. 

    The economy appears to be managed by adjusting access to resources for example, Ajaya, musicblocks, respawn rates, amount of materials needed for a finished product and items that the NPC vendor will sell. This also affects time and energy required to access reduced resources. Increased time needed might change the feel of the game for casual gamers who have less time to play.

    The NPC vendor buys back items at a fixed price which is not going back into the economy. The return for activity is known(fixed) and some players will attempt to specialise with highly repetitive but optimised economic activity at the expense of social activity. If one parameter is adjusted they will search for the next optimal activity. These players might have large disposable incomes. How about more toys, especially the kinds that encourage social activity (parties on yachts? :-P).

    This fixed price system is complicated by the auction system which is a free price system (e.g. expensive keys to Ajaya on auction). How about changing the NPC vendor to a market maker for goods and resources that players are selling on auction and changing to a free market economy?

    The NPC vendor could also have supplies that are separated by region. For example, a vendor in Groddle Forest might run out of rice because there aren't any players producing and selling rice in that region. This might make a player venture to different regions for lower prices or supplies.

    Interesting article here. massively.joystiq.com/2008/...
    Posted 14 months ago by Banyan Subscriber! | Permalink