Topic

Stores

There has been a lot of talk about player stores opening up.  As far as the stores go, I think its a cool idea, but I think that people are picturing it far too happy-go-lucky for what would actually happen.  I think it would bring a lot of competitiveness and animosity between players.  Between customer and store owner, store owner and potential employees, & grinders and store owners, there is a LOT of opportunity created for disagreements and arguments that could happen.

If stores were to work I think several things should happen:
 -One is that stores need to be in designated areas, like the houses, so that they do not litter the game at all.
 -I also think a store where things are sold would be bad idea.  Instead of having things sold, I think a store owner needs to go through "training" for a certain skill.  It could take months to get the training when skills take that long to be learned.  Once the player has learned the skills to a high enough degree, they could then provide services (as opposed to items) for other players.  For instance, a certain player could "train" and become a very high level in Tinkering.  Then that player can open a store that repairs broken items for other players who have not reached that skill level yet and need their items repaired.  This is just an example.
-Store owners can choose whichever prices they want to charge because as more stores open up, these prices will regulate themselves.  For however hard the particular skill is to learn, the prices would probably be more expensive.  But if a nicer and more generous Glitch came by and wanted to offer the same services for cheaper, then the first store owner with an expensive price would be forced to lower his to stay competitive.
-It is essential for these skills that can be provided to take a lot of time and questing power to be able to get to a high enough level to open your own store.  That way, only experienced players will be opening stores and it will keep some of the noobs from just opening a store without understand the mechanics of the game.  Also, these services could not just be provided for free by random Glitches trying to help a friend out.  The Glitch in need would have to go to the store to get the service because only the store owners have the abilities.
-It would be interesting to limit which stores can offer what based on zone.  For instance, in an area with a lot of cherry trees and fruit, the store could offer cooking fruit dishes with the ingredients provided.  Perhaps in an area with pigs, pork tenderloin can be cooked which would offer a higher energy when eaten or a buff that would not be given from eating any other food in the game.  In an area with lots of rocks, the stores could offer transforming gems into jewelry which could be given to fellow players or donated for a higher favor than the gem itself.
-The stores would not have to provide essential services to the players, but maybe services that can give the player a benefit.  That way, players that choose to remain self-sufficient do not have to participate or buy from the services provided by the stores, but those that want to participate can.

Anyways, those are some of my thoughts.  I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it, I just got these ideas reading through some of the other things that were mentioned.  So please, add your own ideas or criticize the ones I have!  

Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I agree with some things, but not all. Stoot mentioned in the other thread that player run stores are often fun for the store owner but not for the buyer because they have to run all around the world looking for specific items. In that sense, if you restrict the items to specific areas, you'd force the buyers to travel all around to get the things they need. Why not let people import/export from other areas?

    I also disagree with only allowing players to provide services. I think it would be fun to provide goods as well, as long as they are not items that are found in NPC stores (street spirits).

    I think that for stores to be successful, you need to have the street spirits limited in what they carry (perhaps they'd only have the basic tools, food, etc.. so new players don't have to go seek player-run stores right away). Player-run stores could then have upgraded versions of tools, or better food & drinks (more xp), they could also carry rare items found in the world infrequently (such as easter eggs, yeti's, etc..).

    I do like your idea of having a minimum skill, perhaps a specific "trade" skill to open a store so only those who are serious about it will do it. I also would like it to be restricted to certain streets, or perhaps a large market hall in each region. I think one important aspect of player run stores is having NPC sales staff that can be rented by the store owner. Nobody wants to hang out at their store at all hours selling stuff, you need to be able to have an automated vending machine or an NPC do the selling so you can spend your time with the crafting or resource gathering.

    Of course, one question is, what about auctions? As long as we have auctions, nobody will ever bother going to player run stores because you can more easily buy stuff through an auction without going anywhere. Can we turn the auctions into stores by giving them an in-game representation?
    Posted 18 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This was my idea for stores that I posted in the other thread.  I think that the idea of a Mall in each area may be a good way to work this.  It seems to go with the OP.

    "Regarding businesses, I believe a few enterprising players have started businesses.  that is something that might relieve the boredom for some players.  I cannot, however visualize how storefront shops would work.  I can see streets being overrun with shops so maybe if this feature is implemented there should be a "mall" in each area.  This would be the place for the storefronts.  We would all then know where to find them and could easily see the Malls on the map.  I also like the idea of specializing and selling "imports".  For example, egg plants would be sold in the Chakra Phool Mall.  If a vendor in the Alakol Mall wanted to add egg plants to inventory they might have a 10% markup in price and the vendor would have to pay extra to stock them.  By having Malls, the streets would not become overcrowded.  At least one street in each area, maybe where the sub station is, would have a Mall sign similar to the housing signs.  Click on it and go shopping."

    Maybe we could have Open/Closed signs or Hours posted.  Nobody is going to want to spend all of their game time working in a store.
    Posted 18 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I like your mall idea and the idea of a 10% markup for imported items, that way you can still buy eggs in alakol mall, but it's cheaper in chakra phool mall. The only thing that I really really recommend is having vending machines or street spirits for hire or something, so players don't have to be at the store all the time to sell. Like you said, nobody wants to spend all their time at the store.
    Posted 18 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think that if a player were allowed to sell things it would have to be something that they can make after LOTS of training. If you have a store selling sparkly rocks for example people may buy from you do they don't have to spend time mining. However, mining is something everyone can do and then a bunch of people will want to open stores. I think it is essential to make it hard to get a store so you can limit the number of stores. Otherwise nobody well go to them cause there are too many.

    Also, offering items related to your skill would be ok. I think its also important to pick one area to specialize in for each store. It just gets messy and confusing to run from store to store to look for what you need.

    Maybe you could pay a monthly fee of currants to have your store listed on the map or advertised for
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is where I copypasta what I wrote in the other thread, which should have gone here anyway: 

    On the idea of storefronts, what if the devs created a limited number of the types of shop you could run, but within a certain framework a player could tweak it? For instance, there would be a list of things they'd be required to sell so people would know they could get, say, honey at a particular location, but if the owner chose to add to their "menu," they could do so. (I'm thinking of the random off-the-beaten-path gas station/convenience store that also sells local handicrafts and preserves, or a daughter that's selling macrame while her parents run the fruit stand on the side of the road. And by the way, they've got some AKC spaniel pups...) 

    Perhaps the shops could be limited in what they sell based on locale, like trees are limited to certain areas? Or you'd pay a premium to sell "imported" goods in your shop? 

    Also: what about a supplier system? Folks who like grinding/collecting the basics (or who got to a project only to discover that the phase they'd collected for is over) can bring their ingredients and sell them to the shopkeeper. If the shopkeeper doesn't have the supplies to make a particular item, the shop can't sell it, which would (ideally) get folks to supply them with the raw materials and alter the prices of materials and/or finished goods. While this obviously wouldn't work for the entire stock of the shop, perhaps there could be a giant-run default/backup supply system, with a 'going rate' for each item to keep the whole system from going totally kablooie. Each type of shop could be "sponsored" by a particular giant! (Which could be the rationale for the "required" stock... Cosma wants all her butterflies to be well massaged, you know.) 

    Anyway, a frontier-fur-trader-like supply system could be a good currant-maker for the low-level players who can 
    only get ahold of basic stuff, as well as for the obsessive chicken-squeezers and whatnot. (Possibility for barter as well, perhaps?) And there's the added benefit of fostering good relationships between different types of players! =) Or glitchen could sell stuff on consignment, or team up to run the different parts of the business (I make the stew, you handle the customers, she makes sure we've got the supplies, etc.).

    It's already kinda tl;dr, so I'll post my further thoughts/changes later.
    Posted 18 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah I saw that earlier jenny. I just think stores selling a wide range of products would be a problem. Nobody would know where to go to get what, so I think each store would have to have a theme, which is where the idea of having a skill comes in. the owner could only sell products or provide good s related to that skill.

    I also think having multiple players working for a store (players grinding or other employees) would only cause tension and unnecessary arguments. The store owner would have to grind for all their own ingredients. Perhaps they could pay a certain amount of currants to a computer employee to run the store while the player is offline. If they don't want to pay the computer vendor they could close the store, or the store would close if it ran out of products. A store that had been closed for a month or so could be shut down or sold to another player
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Nobody is going to want to spend all of their game time working in a store."

    Agree, but am confused by this. I always assumed if I had a store, it wouldn't involve live transactions, more like a set of slots with goods that I kept stocked with my efforts elsewhere.  Really more like a vending machine than a store. 

    Not that I want a store, but I am curious about this.
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really don't think stores selling a wide variety of products is a problem. When I played Ultima Online, they had a healthy player vendor system, you learned quickly which stores had a variety of things and which ones specialize. Having signs that tell you what kind of store it is helps. So you could put "general store" if you have a bit of every thing, or "jewelry store" if you just sell gems. Of course, it is more efficient for a player to specialize because it takes a lot more time go gather all kinds of items vs just one kind, but if somebody wanted to go to the trouble to do that, or if they wish to purchase produce from a local farmer and resell it, why not?
    Posted 18 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Imagine the frustration of walking from store to store to find an item or to read what a sign says as opposed to looking at the map, seeing where a mining store is, and teleporting or walking there to get the gem or jewelry you need
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the specialized store idea. I also think it might work best as Nanookie described with a sort of vending machine feel to it. For a jewelry store, I envision this customer coming in with ingots and gems. Then paying a fee to me as I have the Jewelrymaking Skill set. Then crafting a specific item (necklace, bracelet, earrings, etc.) with my tools using their ingredients. I'm not sure about the specific design of the objects created and what use they'd be. I don't know a thing about design so I don't know if it would be possible to make these items then become part of your wardrobe. But it sounds fun to be able to create something. I look forward to seeing what the devs have up their sleeves.
    Posted 18 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like what FrankenPaula mentioned about keeping NPCs and just having them stocked with basic items. Sometimes I just want to go buy some potatoes and wheat when I'm not growing them myself.

    I agree that something with the auction will have to change then though, because I don't think the two can coexist necessarily. Maybe the auction page becomes a web of storefronts with a searchable database? Like you can type in "gems" and come up with multiple stores that sell/specialize in that area and very much in the way that Nanookie described Vending Machine style. That way it doesn't take up any room in the game itself and still has all of the convenience of the auctions as they are now. And also that means that the store owner can constantly be hunting around for new items to sell, instead of standing still and minding a shop!
    Posted 18 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Folderol: The auction problem is why I suggested store owners being required to spend a lot of time training and specializing.  The auction could still work, but for those that need something really specific would have to go to the store.  It wouldn't be readily available to be put up for auction like other items that people can come by easily.

    I also think the NPC is a good idea.  It would be cool if you had to give them a certain portion of earnings or pay them to work so its more like a real store.  The owner of the store can calculate prices and even "hire" multiple computer employees to sell their items, so they can have stores in multiple areas.  

    @Holly: I think you and me have similar visions!  Mine is like the opposite of yours (customer comes in with items and owner crafts the items for the customer), but both are good ideas!
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Sadly (because so many people want it) one of the things we're pretty convinced *won't* work (from experience in other games/worlds) is storefront based businesses which sell game-items: a lot of players would like to run one, but no players would like to have to buy from one (going from store to store trying to find the thing you want is a PITA).  The sellers want to the individuality of running their own particular place, but the buyers want convenience and to know where to go to buy the thing they need. But without customers, the business is not going to be fun to run."

    Stoot said that in a different forum, and I completely agree.  That's why I suggest opening stores to provide services as opposed to items.  The store owner could either grind for their own ingredients or offer services for lower prices to those who bring their own ingredients.  I also think what stoot said about going from store to store is true, and that's why I was suggesting that the stores be highly specialized.

    I was also thinking about it this afternoon.  What if there was a store that specialized in advertising?  They could then create their own artwork (similar to making notes) for stores that pay them.  Maybe advertising could be added in the subway.  Or perhaps there could be limited spaces for advertising in the game and the advertising store could create signs or special gnomes or something that advertised for other stores that paid them.

    There are a lot of really cool stores/companies you could create in the game that don't require selling in game items.  That way the auctions are not interfering with store sales, players know exactly where to go when they need the help, and store owners get the opportunity to create a store that allows them to help other players and make currants as well as being able to make a lot of business decisions to determine whether they are successful or not.
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot mentioned the possibility of billboards in an interview.
    Posted 18 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great minds think alike I guess. I think this is a good way to have stores that will actually work for people who need something to occupy their game time
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think I must be unnatural - I hate shopping and the thought of spending my glitch time conducting business activity as either a vendor or a customer chills me.

    If someone was to provide an in game service I don't have and might need maybe. (moving, storage, a garden I could rent?) But I'd rather have these things provided by the game.
    Posted 18 months ago by Momo McGlitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love shopping so much its a problem
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Heathermomo - I'm right there with you. I'd rather spend my time hopping up a mountain collecting rocks than selling them at my own store.
    Posted 18 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Heather and @Folder: Not everyone wants a store.  I'm not even sure if I want one, but for people who do it could be cool to have that option.  I suggested that stores only provide non-essential services so that people like you who don't want to own/shop at a store don't have to, and it won't affect gameplay for you at all!
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Laurali, exactly! That wording is the perfect expression of what I was thinking - "non-essential services". I'm all for players being able to create their own storefronts, I just wouldn't like it the Street Vendors were removed.

    I think what's great about Glitch is that having such a big part in the gameplay (like having your own storefront and managing it) is possible! Depending on the level of commitment, I might have a store that I occasionally update too. Or if it means moving/gardening/storage like Heathermomo, that's cool too!
    Posted 18 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Folderol: Haha!  Like I said, great minds think alike ;)!
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink