Topic

IMPROVED: Victoria's big table o'foodstuffs! (best food for energy, mood or profit)

Everyone wonders at some time: what's the "best" food in Glitch?

With Master Chef II it's easy, just cook up some Awesome Stew and you're good. But what about lower level cooks? Are you struggling to find out what the best food is for energy gain? Or are you having a hard time keeping your mood up? Here is something that might help:

Victoria's big table o'foodstuffs!
And also one for mood-enhancing drinks (mostly).

These tables take into account the whole cooking/shaking/blending process! The only exception are "raw" ingredients (meat, milk, beans, etc.), because the energy cost of gathering those depends on your skill level. 

Example:
Ingredients for a Hearty Omelet are 2 eggs, 2 mushrooms, 1 cheese (-7 energy), 1 Hot 'n' Fizzy Sauce (-4). For the sauce you need 1 Tiny Bubble (-5), 1 Cumin (-3), 1 Hot Pepper (-2) and 1 Mustard (-2). Frying the omelet is costs another 11 energy.
Total energy cost = 34.
Energy gain from eating the omelet = 102.
Total energy gain = 68.

Enjoy!

EDIT: I managed to upload the spreadsheet that also takes into account the energy costs for gathering "raw" ingredients, here. It's public but you can't edit. Download it, fill out the values that correspond with your skill level in the "Harvest" tab and enjoy! It's not completely finished though, some data are still missing. Go here to see where you can help.

Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • +100500
    Posted 17 months ago by pinokivio Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, this is a great resource Victoria!  Thanks for posting it.
    Posted 17 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Victoria, thank you for doing this! I started writing some of these down yesterday, but I have a long way to go. This definitely helps!

    One note, have you verified all of your numbers? I did a spot comparison of a few items and most of them were exactly the same. There were a couple, however, that were way off the values I wrote down. For example, for apple jack I have an energy gain of +2 and I think you have +26. I remembered that one because it actually ended as a wash, so I made a mental note not to make it again when I wrote it down. Of course, I can't go in and check right now, darn it! Maybe the energy gain improves as one levels up? I'm level 19 now - maybe that makes a difference? I have no idea. Or maybe I made a mistake.

    Anyway, I love the table and will definitely use it! Let me know if you want any help.
    Posted 17 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Audaria, the energy gain always equals the market worth. When you click applejack and hover over "Eat" the game doesn't give you the energy worth, but instead the energy you will gain from eating it at exactly that moment. When you're almost full it displays less than the maximum worth. That got me confused a few times, too :)

    Most of my numbers are verified in-game, with exception of the entries that contain a questionmark somewhere. I don't know how to make Awesome Stew yet, so that's not verified. I also didn't have time yet to verify all the Cocktail Shaking recipes.

    EDIT: energy gain is not linked to your level.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Someone made a spreadsheet of all of this a couple of weeks ago (it's in the forum somewhere), and found that the best foods are Awesome Stew and Oaty Cakes.
    Posted 17 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • glum pudding, I think you mean this thread? The info in there is outdated, that's why I made my own :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Like!! Thank you
    Posted 17 months ago by Codex Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great stuff Victoria;-)
    Posted 17 months ago by ♥joby♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wait, so these values don't take into account gathering costs?
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Skwid: no, but the document on my computer does :)

    I will share the "mother file" as soon as I've got everything verified. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • this is an incredibly valuable resource and i will certainly be using it.

    one thing to take into consideration, however, is to take into account the *time* it takes to gather ingredients.

    time is a valuable commodity, and even if Awesome Stew has a net gain of 200, if you can make twice the number of, say, Expensive Grilled Cheeses in the same time [net gain 101 each], the Expensive Grilled Cheeses are the overall better option for generating energy.

    this is even true for lower energy value items. for example, if you can gather more than 20 meat in the same time it takes you to make an awesome stew, the meat is a better deal if though it doesn't require cooking.
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's another weak spot, but that's not entirely my fault: cooking a meal often takes less energy then the recipe in-game states. It also seems like cooking up more of the same recipe at once lowers the energy costs.
    For the calculations I use the in-game recipes. Because I suspect this is a bug and Tiny Speck will fix it before launch. Cooking skills don't mention a decrease in energy cost.

    striatic: good point. But that's a bit too advanced for me :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you very much Victoria!
    Exactly what I needed. If I were looking for the max amount of energy I would get from eating a food (not accounting the work into making the food) which column do I look at, energy gain or total energy gain?
    Posted 17 months ago by Lung Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Could really use a website where you can input your stats (level+skills) and have it tell you the most efficient foods for you. Once you're higher at higher skill levels gaining energy is a lot easier than at lower skill levels. I figure once the game goes live someone will make a "WoWHead.com" style site with all this sort of thing.
    In the mean time, thank you for sharing your work!
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lung, that would be "energy gain":
    - Energy gain = energy gained upon consumption, including energy from buffs.
    - Energy cost = energy cost to make it from scratch, with exception of the "raw" ingredients because that depends on your skill level.
    - Total energy gain = (energy gain) - (energy cost)

    EDIT: I changes "total energy gain" to "net energy gain".
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Skwid, I don't have the skills to build something like that but am more than willing to share my data with someone who does!
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh. My. Giant. This is awesome! Thank you, Victoria!
    Posted 17 months ago by Widdershins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cooking results were changed a few tests ago, so no, that wasn't the thread I meant... I'll look for it now.  Unfortunately, the forum's search tool isn't too great.

    ETA: I can't find it, so maybe the person who made the spreadsheet didn't put it into the forums?  Anyway, what you need to remember: Awesome Stew #1, Oaty Cakes #2.  :)
    Posted 17 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I disagree glum, I think Meat Tetrazzini is #2.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just wanted to point out that Expensive Grilled Cheeses actually give 173 energy upon consumption, not 101.

    Very nice spreadsheet though. :)

    ETA: I edited the wiki to reflect that as well.
    Posted 17 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's the data converted into a spreadsheet. I also added a column listing ingredients that needed to be purchased for each item, and one calculating energy gain per point spent. It's editable if anyone wants to add in some of the missing data.
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Very nice, Snarp! What do you mean by "energy gain per point spent"?
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Basically, if you spend 3 energy points making an apple, you get an item yielding 10 points, meaning you've gotten a return of 3 1/3 points per 1 point spent.
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What do you mean by "energy gain per point spent"?

    It's the amount of energy gained divided by the energy spent. It's an easier way to determine the efficiency of a food than showing net energy.
    Nice work Snarp!
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sharp, what do the purple spots mean?
    Posted 17 months ago by Lung Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just added a second sheet (you can open it on the bottom left - click "Energy Table - By Efficiency") sorted according to energy gain per point. With the data currently in the chart, Plain Noodles, Green Eggs, and Oaty Cakes are best.

    The second page won't update automatically if you add something to the first one; sorry! If anyone knows how to get Google Docs to do that, go ahead and edit.
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lung, the purple cells are the ones that are missing information.
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Column H should return values in column G if Column F is zero.
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Victoria, I noticed you don't have the energy spent for Awesome Stew... I'm pretty sure the energy cost to cook Awesome Stew is 18.  All of the ingredients are gathered except for saffron, which costs 4 to grind, for a total energy cost of 22, since you're not counting the energy of gathered items.

    Also, great job, this is amazing work!  :D
    Posted 17 months ago by Kross, the Empress Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you Kross! :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Skwid - It might be more useful that way, yeah. Just changed it, though I stuck an asterisk on there and left it gray to indicate that there's a difference in how the numbers are calculated.

    Or, no, got rid of the asterisk - it was messing up sorting. Turned the zeroes in the cost column blue instead.
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Looks excellent Snarp, thanks!
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • According to the chart as it currently stands, we should basically just be drinking beer all the time. Well, I have no problem with this!

    ...I think I'm going to edit it to explain that that's the result of a buff, and it doesn't give you the energy all at once.
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Google Docs doesn't like my spreadsheet, it erases the formula's. Does anyone know another service I could use? What I like from Google Docs is that you can let others view, edit and download. Any other service that does the same?
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Zubb posted this spreadsheet in one of the other groups:
    https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CKW87qIC&key=0AiB4m9KYlJl6dFduZHpPOUN6LWVua2FzSmhXZXZWcFE&hl=en_US&authkey=CKW87qIC#gid=1
    Which takes into account energy costs (appear to be base, with no skill bonuses) and it's obviously incomplete, but it also includes costs and vendor profit.
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Skwid, that's the one I based the idea for mine on! Glad you found it :)

    I think Zubb made his one in Google Docs, it handles the formula's just fine. But I really don't feel like making a new document and entering everything manually....
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, I would like to discuss what's better to determine the "best" food: net energy gain or energy gain per point spent.

    I feel net energy gain is "better", because you would rather spend more energy on cooking Awesome Stew that eventually gives a huge energy output than cooking up a bazillion Plain Noodles. But I'm what we call in the Netherlands a "gamma", I'm into social sciences and usually stay away as far as I can from numbers. So maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way... Please enlighten me! :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Victoria - What format is the spreadsheet? If you can, try saving a copy as Excel 97 format or newer, then trying to import it again. ODS format should also work.

    As a last resort, if you're only using the formula in the Net Gain cell, then you actually only need to type the formula in once, in the first cell. Once you've done that, you can paste it into all the others, and it'll adjust itself automatically.
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (I'm assuming you're using Excel) have you tried exporting it as a .xls instead of a .xlsx?
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Victoria - Think of it this way:

    Chicken Masala = 1 energy to make, 2 energy output = 1 net energy
    Chicken Korma = 2 energy to make, 4 energy output = 2 net energy
    Tandoori Chicken = 3 energy to make, 6 energy output = 3 net energy

    The tandoori has the highest net energy, yes - but you could get the same result for the same energy spent by just making three masalas. There's really no difference between them, except inventory-space-wise. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Snarp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, I would like to discuss what's better to determine the "best" food: net energy gain or energy gain per point spent

    The "Energy per point spent" is a normalized measurement of efficiency. For example: It is more efficient to eat a food (x) that costs you 5 energy and grosses 30 than to eat one (y) that costs 25 and grosses 45. Basically what the value is saying is that if you eat 90 energy of item x you will net more than if you eat 90 energy of item y. Eating 3 of item x gets you 90 energy at a cost of 15 energy, net gain of 75 energy. Eating 2 of item y gets you 90 energy at a cost of 50 energy, net gain of only 40 energy! Normalizing it down to energy gained per point spent shows how much more efficient one item is over another.

    The problem we run into is energy costs, without factoring in harvesting costs some of these values will be drastically wrong (since some recipes require more raw items than others).
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I figure once the game goes live someone will make a "WoWHead.com" style site with all this sort of thing."
    Working on it! We've got a group right now for people who want to contribute and/or crunch data ( beta.glitch.com/groups/RA95... ) and someday I'd love to have a better system of data gathering (more like what wowhead has, in fact). For right now, though, we have to muddle through with the old school "writing things down" methods. =)

    Victoria, if you don't have an objection, I'd love to use this as a starting point for some of our calculations.  I've been planning on a breakdown for things by skill level, so having this much would be a huge help in that process.
    Posted 17 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Awesome Magic Monkey! Joining right away! I think the biggest problem we have is that there is no way to find energy costs of items, so we're forced to rely on people reporting it or writing it down instead of being able to scrape it from the site (or in WoWHead's case, the game files). Still, I think having somewhere to go for all this information would make playing a LOT less tedious. Especially for those of us whose minds won't rest until they know this information!
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think I get it... When I need energy fast I think I would go for something with a high energy gain per point spent, but when I'm stocking my bags with food I would choose meals with a high net energy gain.

    I'm on a Mac, using Numbers. I export to .xls (Excel 97-2004). Tomorrow I will try to open it with Excel and see if I can turn it into a format that Google Docs likes.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Magic Monkey, I will try to put everything I have on Google Docs tomorrow. You can use everything, I don't mind :)

    In case the Google Docs thing fails, you can mail me on victoria.glitch@gmail.com and I will just send you the file. I think it will be very helpful for your cause.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's looking at it in a vacuum. It also assumes starting from raws. I personally premake the ingredients for food the night before, and then use the 'new day' I have while not playing to offset that energy loss. End result is that my groddle sammitches only costs 10 energy to make, for an 83 energy net gain. 

    There's also the issue that it doesn't care what level of cooking someone needs. It assumes max cooking level I presume? Again, we're looking at it in a vacuum for a highish level player. The people who really need to crunch on energy consumption are going to be the lower level players. That is, what's the most efficient for EZC1? or 2? 

    So, while I commend Victoria for the document, and the work spent on it, I can't say that this is a valuable resource as others have said. I think each player needs to evaluate what he/she is doing and what he has, and come up with methods to offset his energy losses. And, afterall, that really is one of the key 'gameplay' aspects we have right now. We should be glad it's not so simple to say 'X is the best.'
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is really great. Thanks, Victoria!
    Posted 17 months ago by Rock Opera Jr Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's looking at it in a vacuum.

    You're right, the spreadsheet does ignore some things that are important to determining which "X is best" but that doesn't mean the information is not valuable at all. It's simple enough for someone with limited cooking skill to still search through the list for the most efficient item for their level. There are people in the Data Information Gatherers group who are looking into making a more complete and comprehensive spreadsheet, you're welcome to join the group and help out!
    Posted 17 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not that far along in my cooking but is there a wiki page that shows what recipes become available with each cooking skill? The cooking skill for each recipe could be added as a column to Victoria's Google spreadsheet. Then applying a filter allows the sheet to only display those recipes (rows) selected in the filter.
    Posted 17 months ago by SleepyAce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been working on this from what I might call the "vendor-centric" point of view, but I have a long way to go before having anything publishable.  The vendor-centric method assumes you buy all ingredients from a vendor.  It also assumes one energy unit is worth one currant.  The cost of a food is the the cost in currants to buy all the basic ingredients plus the energy cost to cook the food.  This can then be compared to either the energy gain from consuming or the income from selling the food.  So if a food's ingredients cost 20 currants from a vendor and it takes 10 energy to cook it, then it's real cost is 30.  If it's street price is 60 currants and it gives 70 energy when eaten, then it provides a net gain of either 30 currants or 40 energy.

    I see this approach as useful for two reasons:  1) To make a large number of food items to sell it may be more efficient to gather most or all the ingredients via a single pass to the vendors rather than grow/gather them all.  This system lets you know what your gain would be if you do so.  2) The strictly energy based systems do not take into account the time/energy to produce the raw ingredients.  The vendor-centric approach may give a more meaningful estimate of the true cost of production simply by adding in an, admittedly arbitrary, cost for raw ingredients.
    Posted 17 months ago by Hawkwell Subscriber! | Permalink
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