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#### What we CAN do about griefers and trolls

I've been reading the forums and chatting to people in-game and I'm getting concerned about the impact griefers and trolls are having on some people's experience of the game. Maybe I have been incredibly lucky as most of my experiences here have been really positive - when I was new so many people gave me gifts and advice, and I have used them as my model on how to play the game. But it is clear that this is not the same for everybody.
People who manipulate rules and take advantage of them and of other people are an unfortunate part of life, both in Ur and IRL. TS does what they can to minimise their impact on the game and it is hard to see how they could do more without becoming Big Brotherish (Orwell, not reality TV) or having the trolls they are trying to curtail use reporting strategies to do further trolling. Unlike real life, trolls aren't likely to stick around for the long haul. I know they will be replaced by a fresh set of idiots but the rest of us have an advantage in counteracting them due to our higher levels and access to resources.
Here is what I suggest - let's be anti-griefers. When you go to the herb gardens bestow RK on everyone. Sprinkle Sparkle Powder or Startling Fecundity. If you're TPing to another garden offer to take people with you. Carry a bag of gifts (nothing fancy, just some of the stuff you get for free from harvesting or squeezing) around and give them to low level players so that they (like I did) feel that that is part of the culture of the game. Bestow RK on miners and, if you're helping a low level miner, slow your mining down. Keep an eye on the different group chats so that you can help out or just say hi - I've made some lovely Glitchen friends that way. None of these things take much time and most are completely free to give and I know people appreciate it.
TL:DR Be nice to other Glitchens

Posted 12 months ago by Captain Daisy | Permalink

### Replies

- I like it, I support it, and I hope it works.
  In regards to the TL:DR Be nice to Other Glitchens. I want to clarify that in case you change the post some time later and I end up saying "I agree to eating babies" or something like that.
  Don't eat babies. They are not tasty.
  Posted 12 months ago by Wyrd One | Permalink
- I do not agree, the being nice bit yes, but impressing that someone is a troll or idiot is not acceptable, this forum has no point and should be removed, I do not agree
  Posted 12 months ago by Miss Purple | Permalink
- @Miss Purple,
  What exactly do you disagree with? What does it mean to "impress" that someone is a troll? Do you perhaps mean "imply"? Unless it was changed before I read it, Captain Daisy's post doesn't mention or imply that any particular glitch is a troll.
  Your post has me quite confused.
  Posted 12 months ago by Dr.Maud, Obviously | Permalink
- "Idiot" and "troll" really are somewhat synonymous or at least there is a lot of overlap between the terms so I'm not sure that implying that trolls in general are idiots is really offensive in any way, It's not targeted at any specific Glitchen. I'm kinda with Dr. MaudGonne on this one.
  As for the plan to be nice to people, that's always a good idea. : )
  Posted 12 months ago by Melting Sky | Permalink
- I agree with the OP! Trolls take pleasure in making the game less fun for others. Don't let them succeed! The way to beat them is to always be nice, in the process making the game less fun for them.
  Posted 12 months ago by Charm | Permalink
- @Wyrd: Depends on how you prepare the baby.
  @Miss Purple: Your post makes no sense.
  @Dr MaudGonne: Nice to see you in the forums.
  @Charm: Agree!
  Posted 12 months ago by CrashTestPilot | Permalink
- Let me add one another thought: if someone's behavior temporarily makes it hard for you to pro-actively be kind and nice, instead be non-reactive and neutral.
  Never escalate, never do the tit-for-tat. Just ignore, move on, disengage.
  "I prefer not to play this way…" and go do something that brings you and others joy.
  Posted 12 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- i always wondered about babies.......
  Posted 12 months ago by Jugni | Permalink
- Troll is the act. Troller is the term for the person trolling. Think of 'trolling with a motorboat'. The troller throws out bait to see who will get hooked into responding. A lot of people don't know what they're talking about so 'troll' has become a general purpose insult, iow: meaningless.
  It would be pretty easy to categorize several of the most recent 'discussions' about the Community Gardens as trolls. Very successful trolls, at that. The proper action to take when you see that an obvious troll thread has been posted is to reply: "Nice troll, there..." and say nothing more.
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- griefer and troll are some of those terms people use to dismiss people who are playing in a way they don't like.
  griefer is properly used to denote persons whose main objective is not the accomplishment of a play goal, but to annoy or cause grief.
  troll is someone who puts out bait hoping to stir up a fuss.
  babies taste like suckling pig.
  Posted 12 months ago by flask | Permalink
- share so hard hoarding becomes a clearly absurd approach
  same as in real life
  Posted 12 months ago by ruptures | Permalink
- Trolls?
  ...
  Posted 12 months ago by Volkov | Permalink
- At the end of the day, the best thing to do is make friends and take care of them.
  Then make more friends.
  Trust networks are the antidote.
  Posted 12 months ago by CrashTestPilot | Permalink
- +1
  I love this idea. :: nods nods ::
  Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ | Permalink
- I really appreciate that you come at this problem from a direction of positive reinforcement of good manners instead of trying to do something against the offending 'trolls' and 'griefers'. There's not much in Ur you can do to stop someone from doing something but there's a whole lot you can do to support someone doing the right thing and I think that's the key behind it all.
  It would be nice if there was a group or a good place to discuss and organize positive community gardening activities. Things like giving out free seeds and RKs and the like.
  Posted 12 months ago by Chee42 | Permalink
- It's just good to try and keep in mind that trolls tend to be sad, broken and very lonely individuals in real life that probably deserve more pity than dislike. They are still people, just mentally ill in a way that makes them rather unpleasant to others.
  Even I tend to forget that sometimes despite trying to remain mindful of it.
  Posted 12 months ago by Melting Sky | Permalink
- This is a fantastic movement! I received a RK both yesterday and today and it was such a nice change from receiving death threats just from walking by a group of herb plots.
  We can kill the trolls with kindness! Their goal is to see how fast they can ruin the fun and make us cry. Our tears taste like chocolate to them. If we don't let their behavior bother us, they have no power over us. If they have no power, they'll get bored soon enough and go back to living under their bridges.
  The very nature of a troll and the negative motivations that drive their behavior is of someone who can't handle niceness, kindness and generosity, so let's all make this world so sweet that the trolls get cavities! :D
  Posted 12 months ago by Vera Mars | Permalink
- OMG, what a concept--leading by good example. And so nicely put. I've had such a lovely experience here in Glitch with lots of nifty people. I agree with Melting Sky on what the probable reason for the anti social behavior of trolls and griefers is, and find it's just a far nicer experience for me if my behavior regardless of theirs is something I can be proud of. And periodically I am pleasantly surprised when the troll or griefer's behavior changes as a result of being treated with civility.
  Posted 12 months ago by Axa | Permalink
- Eat babies.
  Posted 12 months ago by Ernest | Permalink
- This post is such a lovely antidote to some of the other posts out there... the ones that seem to end up full of vitriol and venom...
  I love this whole idea! And would gladly become part of a community/group that was devoted to making everyone around them feel happy/supported :)
  Thanks, Captain Daisy!
  Posted 12 months ago by Clarabelle | Permalink
- Ugh. No matter how positive and well-intentioned your post is, there always has to be some nay-sayer to come along and poo-poo it (either articulately or almost nonsensically). How disappointing.
  I myself agree wholeheartedly with what you said, Captain Daisy! I love the social, cooperative aspects of this game and have had mostly positive experiences with other players. Be nice. Be considerate. Be helpful. Don't be a troll. Don't throw a hissy fit over minor irritations. All of these simple things will make your gameplay experience far more enjoyable for you and for those with whom you interact. :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Little Violet | Permalink
- Absotutly agree! Thank you Captain Daisy for posting this. I've been avoiding the herb gardens and delaying my quests because of all the ugliness. You've given me a reason to go there again, and use my CareBear...hug those griefers! ^,^ Sprinkle and spread rainbows all over the place. I don't care what the exact definition of "troll" is, it doesn't negate the nature of the behavior, but I *have* seen people change from dour to friendly when I was especially pleasant to them. Who knows, some of these players might become 2012's friendly, helpful mentors. Thats worth the effort.
  Posted 12 months ago by Phoebe Springback | Permalink
- Eh, kindness is great for the other glitchens, but if any of you think trolls are going to be killed with kindness, that is absurd. To also assume they are sad, broken individuals is also absurd. We can not gauge what kind of person a troll is, and the best thing to do is block them and move on. Be kind to the players who deserve it, especially if they have been griefed in the first place. But when enough of us have blocked the offending players, they will go away, as they have no one left to piss off.
  Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan | Permalink
- It's even more important to be kind to people who don't "deserve" it.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- "be non-reactive and neutral"
  ...yes! The other day I was mining for guano and someone came by and took one of my piles. I said something like "hey! that was mine :)" and didn't push it any further, made sure to include a smile. A little while later he gave it back to me! We traded some stuff and mined together. It was a good experience and I'm glad I didn't get angry or call him a thief.
  Posted 12 months ago by Miss Portinari | Permalink
- I believe in unilateral kindness. I used to believe it could solve all the world's problems.
  Over time, I had experiences that led me to believe that maybe unilateral kindness could not solve all the world's problems. This was crystalized for me when I began to learn about research on collaboration and cooperation. This research made me realize that unilateral kindness is not always an effective strategy for achieving cooperation, and sometimes achieving cooperation is important. So I had to confront the fact that unilateral kindness alone can sometimes lead to a bad outcome.
  Passive resistance, as mentioned elsewhere by Wyrd and as practiced by Ghandi and MLK, can be an effective and non-violent way to achieve cooperation. I don't know if there is any real equivalent to passive resistance in Glitch, but I know how it works in real life. Passive resistance involves more than refusing to react to anger and violence with anger and violence. It also involves calling attention to injustice. It can be combined with unilateral kindness, but it is a separate thing from unilateral kindness.
  I still believe in unilateral kindness, but I also believe in calling attention to injustice. When done in a way that respects the human dignity of every person (even when they may be behaving in a less than dignified way), I believe it is a right and proper thing to do.
  Posted 12 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- I do agree with Splendora that we should (politely) call people out on their actions. Quite often what they've done has been the result of a misunderstanding and everyone has gone forward in a more positive way afterwards. We should be as quick to thank the people who do nice things for us as well.
  Also, thanks to all who've left such positive comments here - I was a bit nervous about posting as I've seen what can happen in these forums.
  Posted 12 months ago by Captain Daisy | Permalink
- I hate to say it, but sprinkling sparkle powder is NOT nice. You simultaneously annoy everyone on the street.
  What you totally SHOULD do is run around with bunches of Amorous Potion and stick hearts onto everyone you see :)
  Posted 12 months ago by larky lion | Permalink
- Sorry larky lion, didn't realise sparkle powder was annoying - I thought it was a quick way to give a little bump to mood for everyone. I won't do it again. When I can do potions I'll certainly use your idea.
  Posted 12 months ago by Captain Daisy | Permalink
- Yes, sparkle powder freezes many player's screens, and sometimes requires them to reboot
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- Three cheers for Miss Daisy!! What an awesome thread! (I try to play the same way, and it makes me happy when I see other people being kind and generous. It's one of the things that drew me here and kept me here.)
  And Splendora, I'm still waving my tiny fangirl flag ;)
  Posted 12 months ago by Ashbet | Permalink
- Don't escalate. Turn the other cheek. Kill 'em with kindness. Make being mean uncool by making it boring.
  Reward friendliness, helpfulness, generosity, and reciprocality. Give when you can, trade fairly we you have the need.
  Remember, this is supposed to be fun, right?
  Posted 12 months ago by Fluxan | Permalink
- I agree that unilateral kindness as Splendora put it maybe isn't the right path. I don't really think you can kill a troll with kindness, maybe you can make them a bit confused with kindness but that's about it. The best way to deflect a troll or griefer is to not fall into the trap of getting angry over it. Making a quick comment about what you feel they are doing wrong and if they are open to it you can discuss the issue but do not get into a big argument with them. If they aren't willing to be civil then don't push it.
  Keep the kindness for the people doing the right thing IMO.
  Posted 12 months ago by Chee42 | Permalink
- Let me be clear about what I mean by calling attention to injustice in the context of Glitch.
  Short Version: If you can't be neutral and non-abusive, then it is best to do nothing.
  ********************************
  Long Version:
  If someone is doing something in-game that you think is unjust, I believe it is appropriate to use IM to communicate with them in a non-abusive manner. This can be accompanied by an act of reconciliation, such as a hug or a gift -- sometimes that is effective. However, if the player in question does not respond or responds only with abuse, I think it is appropriate to then block them. If their actions affect others present, I think it is appropriate to inform those others in a neutral manner that the player in question is not responding to communication. I think it's also appropriate to advise those others to ignore the player in question, and to make those others aware that they can block the player in question. (Some players may not know about or understand the blocking function.) I do not see blocking or ignoring as retaliatory actions.
  If you are told that what happens between other players is none of your business, I think it's appropriate to respond, with all due respect, that you do not agree. Injustice to one is injustice to all.
  If you see a player using game mechanics in a way that seems unjust, I think it's appropriate to describe the action in this forum, provided you do so in a way that does not identify specific individuals. This raises awareness and may allow other players to adapt their play or get advice on how to adapt their play to render the exploit ineffective. It gives TS the opportunity to learn about uses of game mechanics. It also may reveal that other players differ in their views. Not everything that angers, frustrates, saddens, or annoys another person is unjust. Not everything that is unfair is unjust. And finally, sometimes overlooking or simply forgiving an injustice is the best course of action.
  What's not appropriate here, in my view, is to call out an individual in a public way for the purpose or with the consequence of shaming them or encouraging retaliatory actions against them. The Glitch ToS prohibit this, and with good reason. There is a difference, however, between shaming a person and declaring an action or behaviour shameful. This may prick the conscience of another, and they may find that uncomfortable, but that is not injustice.
  I don't always follow my own advice. Ethical passive resistance requires a great deal of self-control. Sometimes I lose it. When I do, I'm in the wrong.
  Posted 12 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- There are many things said here that I find interesting and thought provoking. (thank you captain daisy and commenters for being brave enough to post !) .
  I ,too, have been frustrated , angered and saddened by the thievery and abusive type behaviours seen lately in the game. And I have felt a lack of power to combat the behaviours.
  I agree with most of what has been said here - "killing them with kindness" in many cases is a successful,compassionate response. However, as noted by others , I agree- you can't always stop abusive actions by "killing them with kindness" .
  Fluxan said it so well -"make being mean uncool by making it boring" . Awesome mantra! .
  I , think Fluxan, put a majority of the right ideas very succintly above . ;)
  Also,crashtestpilot and others make good points above about trust networks and making friends - and supporting Glitches who are generous and non-abusive.
  And , finally , plus about a million, to Splendora regarding the calling attention to injustice being necessary and good (as a component of ethical passive resistance).
  Ethical passive resistance and calling attention to the injustices make me feel empowered and happier again . ( And YES -it is very difficult on the self-control!)
  Agree,too, that calling out injustice needs to be done in the proper way , by calling the action/behaviour shameful and done with due consideration to Tiny Speck's TOS.
  Injustice to one is injustice to all.
  Posted 12 months ago by serenitycat | Permalink
- I have had nothing but positive experiences myself; I've been very lucky. When I was new I was given gifts, RK, etc. and now I do the same. It makes the game more fun to shower new players with RK and give them pickles :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Little Honey | Permalink
- @Melting Sky: No surprise to find you here making dumb posts about psychology.
  referring to players as mentally ill because they like to get a rise out of others? surprised you haven't got your own talk show with that intelligent summary.
  if people didn't fight, bicker, compete, argue etc nothing would ever get done. you know that governments run our countries right? have you ever watched a debate before? it looks like a group of kids squabbling over nothing, rabble rabble rabble but that is the "pinnacle" of humans debating relevant issues. it is not always mature, it is not always fair, but it is effective and hardly makes all those people mentally ill. add that to the fact that a lot of gamers are children or teens and yet to learn the many lessons life has to offer
  and finally, you are clearly a troll Melting Sky and go out of your way to make others think less of themselves. you group people into some dumb bracket that usually makes no sense, is probably is more applicable to you than anyone else, and if anyone disputes it they also get bracketed.
  just sad that the moment I saw this topic, I knew you would be in here trolling hard.
  Posted 12 months ago by psibertus | Permalink
- One issue:
  Nowhere in this set of advice about how to deal with injustice is a mention of the specific tool that TS provides: Report Abuse.
  I disagree especially with this paragraph:
  If you see a player using game mechanics in a way that seems unjust, I think it's appropriate to describe the action in this forum, provided you do so in a way that does not identify specific individuals. This raises awareness and may allow other players to adapt their play or get advice on how to adapt their play to render the exploit ineffective. It gives TS the opportunity to learn about uses of game mechanics.
  Before you reach the step of a drama narrative in the forums, how about using the Report Abuse function to "give TS the opportunity to learn about uses of game mechanics". This gives TS the chance to do something about the problem before it becomes a community crisis. It gives staff a chance to have a conversation with the specific individual.
  Perhaps they would prefer to remove that person from the game instead of redesigning the whole game. Perhaps they believe a conversation with staff will actually educate the person and change the behavior.
  When you bypass this step and go straight to public drama, you are doing the staff a great disservice. I'd suggest giving them a chance to use the tools that they have (and we don't) before initiating any player-centered actions against the behavior.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- politicians are the pinnacle of humanity = lololol. i guess that it makes sense griefers are just following the example of the state.
  Posted 12 months ago by ruptures | Permalink
- brief bibliography
  Marcel Mauss, "The Gift" (1923)
  Robert Axelrod, "The Evolution of Cooperation" (1984) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_cooperation
  Elinor Ostrom, "Governing the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action" (1990) http://www.scottlondon.com/reviews/ostrom.html (she just won a Nobel)
  Posted 12 months ago by ruptures | Permalink
- I love it when people troll, especially when they brag about being trolls!
  It means I can block them very quickly and never have to see their trolling again. Ignoring them is always the best response. If no one takes their bait, they move on to some other game.
  I do think reporting them is a good idea though. TS has a vested interest in people staying in the game. They'll deal with people who are chasing others away.
  Posted 12 months ago by Lillibunya | Permalink
- Personally, I did not take the comments and post here as "replaces" filing an abuse report -since the original post does mention reporting strategies.
  So I took into account then that a player should definitely use the abuse report feature.
  I more see , and including my own personal game experiences, - see that there are many ways that players engage in abusive,manipulative actions/behaviours -but they are NOT actually "violating" the TOS .
  So , then, the matter becomes-- as it is now -What CAN we do to combat (respond) to these things ? and this thread is about that. .. but that is just my take on it. .. ;)
  Posted 12 months ago by serenitycat | Permalink
- While this doesn't interest me, I think this is a cool idea. I'd make one change in wording I believe, and say this is just a positive group, rather than an anti-troll group. You would have to imply that people are trolls and are not playing "the right way" (if someone plays within the rules, it's alright) so there is no wrong way to play. People can be creative if they follow every rule. Don't misunderstand someones weird or unpopular playstyle as wrong or as trolling. If they stay within all guidelines and rules this is ok, and it does come with consequences. The consequences are that people simply don't like them - that's it. Some people don't care if people don't like them, and it's amusing to some as well. Implying this is wrong/trolling, just because it's unpopular, isn't the best wording or idea.
  Posted 12 months ago by Messy Monster | Permalink