Topic

Robotic Interaction

While I really liked the Tower Quest, did anyone else feel like they were just little puppets? The "interaction" is a script that you click through to get to the jumping parts of the quest. Yes, information is conveyed, but you don't have any choices. Like I wasn't feeling scared when my little Glitch answered yes to "isn't this a scary place?" Words are put in my mouth to move the story along.

So, there are two things, one is is there a different way to convey the information? Two, I'd love to see the Glitch make choices (other than telling the Rock "I'll do this later"). And the choice would have different outcomes. I get how this is more complex, but there is a start in Bureaucratic Hall. 

Posted 19 months ago by Mac Rapalicious Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • You seem to be unfamiliar with what's called a linear narrative. While more recently games have featured dynamic plots and branching storylines, linear narratives used to be very common and offer many benefits over more open structures. Glitch is full of choices, you're not forced to do anything, if you don't like linear quests don't do them. However if you are looking specifically for more 'choices' and such, I think it's safe to say you might want to find another game. I won't speak for Tiny Speck, but from what I've seen of the game branching quest lines isn't something they'll be interested in implementing. 
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, I am familiar with what you call a linear narrative. My issue is that it is boring and robotic--like those old games you refer to. A more modern model for conveying information is to just watch a movie rather than staging a convo. A false choice, to me, just feels false.

    You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of an "Ideas" forum. It's like what people call brainstorming. You may not be familiar with software development, but believe it or not, it is helpful for developers to learn about what users are interested in. In the spirit of brainstorming and improving the game experience, people chime in and sometimes build on a posted idea. Some people say, "+1" which means "I agree. Others may disagree with the idea. They can post "-1" or maybe make a comment on how it would not enhance their game experience. 

    Generally, to gain the benefit of alpha and beta testing (again, this is what we are doing, testing and providing feedback to help build a better product) it's not such a good idea to dismiss ideas or invite people to leave the game.
    Posted 19 months ago by Mac Rapalicious Subscriber! | Permalink
  • from what I've seen of the game branching quest lines isn't something they'll be interested in implementing.

    Just how familiar are you with the previous games that these developers put together?  And what about their massively successful previous web site that got sold to Yahoo!?

    Some of the beta testers are have been beta testing these folks stuff for nearly a decade.  I really doubt that you have any clue about what "they'll be interested in implementing".
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Choices would be nice for some quests. Even if it was so simple as "Do you like [quest1]sweet things[/quest1] or [quest2]sour things[/quest2]?" and each quest was to make either some strawberry cakes or some lemon cakes (gimme a break, I don't know what kinds of things you can make yet, lol), it would be nice.
    Posted 19 months ago by Milx Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's true that feedback is a necessary part of the testing process, but keep in mind that Glitch is targeted at a specific demographic. This game isn't meant to be accessible to the general public:

    Butterfield admitted, "There's not a better way to say [who we're targeting] than people with above average intelligence and sophisticated tastes, in their 20s or early 30s...The intersection of NPR listeners and game players."

    Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10449721-52.html#ixzz1NnecltAi 

    I don't think that non-linear narratives is something which would interest this demographic. Non-linear narratives are often of poorer quality since you have to specifically create each choice and outcome, which eats up time (think of it as a choice between having numerous poorly written stories/outcomes, or one masterful story). I think the developers are more interested in players creating the lore (as has already been seen in the General forum) while they focus on art and game mechanics. With this in mind, I think an idea which would suit both the developers wishes and satisfy your need for choice would be user-created narratives/quests. Of course something like this, if indeed they're considering it, wouldn't be implemented for a very long time. Also just reminding you I'm not speaking for the developers themselves, this is merely my assumptions of them and the direction they will be taking Glitch.
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • that article was written a year and a half ago, long before Faunasphere shut down.  The definition of the target demographic has certainly morphed in those 18 months.

    Perhaps a more relevant quote is from the TS founder, over in the General Forum a few minutes ago:
    Who knows what the future holds?!

    This is the Ideas Forum, set up specifically to capture ideas about the direction that the game might take in the future.  Your continued insistence that you know what that whole demographic would or would not like, and what the devs will and won't do is a bit presumptuous.  You do know that subscribers are going to vote on what direction the game develops, don't you?  And that right now, the devs are implementing player suggestions on a weekly basis.  Not some theoretical guess about what NPR listeners might like, but suggestions that are strongly driven by some people who don't listen at all to NPR.
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To WindBorn

    I'd like to open my retort by first saying fuck you. Now don't try to lord yourself over me by proclaiming to be smarter and using nicer language and all that, you're specifically attacking me in a place for which you yourself have said is for ideas. Ahem, now onto the substance of my retort. First of all, I've insisted nothing and have in fact clearly stated (TWICE) that I am merely making assumptions and guesses, which is another way of saying my own perspective and opinion. Second, you are incorrect in saying that subscribers will vote on the direction which the game will take. More specifically, subscribers will vote on which game mechanics and updates get priority over others. In case you still don't understand, this means subscribers will pick the order in which things are implemented, they will have no choice over what is or isn't implemented, not directly anyway. However I am sincerely sorry if I offended your ego, seeing as you have been around longer than me you are obviously more intelligent and smarter than I. Although you ought to come right out and just say that, rather than hinting at it. Mocking aside though, I'd like to bring this to a close. After all this is a place for the crowd-sourcing and expression of ideas, not for defense of one's ego. So I regret to inform you I will be breaking away from this thread from hereafter, as nothing constructive will come from my continued presence here. I will end this paragraph in customary fashion, by restating my opening remark: fuck you
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • EDIT: Ehhh, you know what, upon reading this reply the next day, I erased it :) nothing here to see...
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Strcat clearly has a very active imagination.

    Suppose we imagine a game in which the devs remain flexible and after nearly two years, have expanded the audience they expect to reach.

    Suppose we imagine a game in which a large group of beta testers enriched and informed the development concepts so that they move the game in a different direction than originally imagined. Suppose (oh teh horror) that this demographic now includes the general public.

    Suppose we imagine a game in which non-linear narratives are within the capability of the development staff, and that it wouldn't take them years to implement them. 

    Suppose we imagine a game in which the TS staff IS interested in implementing branching quest lines.

    Under those circumstances, the OP's post can be given the consideration it deserves, and not be dismissed by people who imagine what staff is thinking.

    PS, there is no need for disclaimers about whether or not someone is staff.  Staff posts are all clearly identified and players can be confident that only staff have "staff" by their posts. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 windborn.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not sure I'd define Glitch strictly as a linear narrative, since there are many paths you can take, but in that it has the same goals and eventual progression the definition fits. That aside...

    I agree with Mac, much of the Tower discovery felt awfully like the tutorial in the lack of dynamics. It was push a button - move - wait for plot - move - push a button... the whole thing was a bad attempt at info-dumping the audience with background, storyline, and plot. Might as well have been saying something like 'the warp drive was invented by Zefram Cochrane in 2063' for all the good the interactions did. If nothing else, it's bad film scene creation.

    There *are* better ways of achieving the same effect. I prefer more complicated (and optional) Quests that send you all over the place to uncover and piece together parts of things like the history, preferably after completing some action that causes you to re-live or recreate the story you're learning - but that is a personal preference. Call it the teacher in me, but those type of quest/history lessons engage the spectrum of the audio/visual/experience learning bases and help the 'story' stick with you. I'd prefer it if you got a 'clue' at the top of the tower, which sends you off to the nearest shrine to donate a particular object, which gives you another clue... etc.

    As for the 'options' in an info-dumping quest... I prefer the single response format we currently have over the phony optional dialog (like the sno cone vendor has - doesn't matter what you answer, you're still headed for the buy/sell menu). And I really dislike 'movies' that depict or force my actions, with a passion. The artwork drives costs up (those movies are more a way for game designers to showcase their cool tech and fab graphics than a mechanism to further the game) and provides a 'fixed' element where none is necessary, and there's always some sort of artist emotion being imposed into it... and that rarely matches with what *I* was feeling or the actions of my character. Things like the 'falling in love' garbage in the Final Fantasy series drove me up a wall, especially since I found all of those characters to be banal and lifeless. Game itself was great, but the characters (and their conversations) sucked. There was a stretch in the 90's where some of those 'movies' and forced plot bordered on offensive to the extreme minority that was being a female gamer in those years (and heaven forbid you wanted an avatar without stripper boobs).

    So, before I get blasted for not being 100% cheerleader 100% of the time... I'm not saying what we have is bad - I'm saying 'I think it can be better'. The weird text filled boxes with a click-response is jarring against the stunning characters you introduce in the Tower, and it's something of a let down. Even just being forced to return at a later date to get another piece of the story, while annoying, improves the lack of umph in the Tower discovery.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are alternative dialogue options in Beaurocratic Hall interractions.  Even something like that would be a bit more fun and seem like having a choice.

    I liked the tower very much and loved the quest and I will do it again, but even the illusion of choice would be nice in doing it once more since I could make different responses.

    I do get Travinara's point about the 'fakeness' of some conversations (as in BH) but it is amusing sometimes.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think it's far more important that the game itself isn't linear (which it most definitely isn't). The devs need to be careful with making dialogs more complex--alot of people don't like them, and would prefer to just stop reading and play the darned game. If they can skip through it without reading, fine, but if they are forced to make decisions then they have to pay attention, and that will put some people off. Also, I am obsessive-compulsive enough that I feel like I have to experience everything, and if a non-repeatable quest has multiple endings, I'm going to be irritated that I wasn't able to see all of them.

    That said, I'm not against some dialog options in some places, as long as it makes the game more interesting. If it's just done because that style of play is "in" right now (which it is for current RPG's), then I'm not too thrilled about it.
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink