Topic

Unwritten "rules"

So, I noticed in other threads that there are some unwritten "rules" that some players have come up with that, when broken, irritate the heck out of them. I remember the same thing happening in Faunasphere, which seemed to only result in lengthy arguments and alot of very angry people. Although common courtesy is something that should be expected from everyone (but don't be surprised if some players don't show it), defining specific rules of behavior that not everyone is privy to (no matter how "obvious" it is in your mind) will only result in alot of unnecessary stress, IMHO. It will get a million times worse when the game goes live, by the way. Here's a list of the ones I've seen, including my personal opinion on each one:

1) Thou shalt not pick items up from the ground that are at another player's feet.
    --- I am ashamed that I did this once or twice the first day I played, without thinking. It didn't occur to me at the time that the person may have left it there temporarily with the intent of picking it up again later. Now that I see there may be a reason for a player to do this (I didn't at the time know how limited our inventory was), I don't do that any more, and I see how it is common courtesy not to. However, some newbies (especially) may not know what they're doing (like me). This is the most understandable of all the unwritten rules, but anyone who drops stuff should realize that there is a chance someone else will grab it (either obliviously, or maliciously).

2) Thou shalt not mine a rock that someone else is mining.
    --- The game makes it possible to do this, so it's obviously not a hard game rule. I didn't see a problem with doing this until I read in the forums that some people were irritated by it, and wanted to be able to sit on one rock all by themselves until it is gone. After seeing that, I stopped doing it, but don't expect other people to automatically know this unwritten rule (or even agree with it).

3) Thou shalt not scrape barnacles unless you are part of a group in the area that is doing so, and are coordinating with them about which ones you are allowed to scrape.
    --- I just read about this one a few moments ago, which is what sparked me to start this thread... All I have to say is: Really? WOW! .... how are people outside your group suppose to know this? And do you really think this is fair? Really??? hmmm.... Maybe we should have the same rule for everything else one can gather in the game. Why stop at barnacles? Please, let me know if I'm misinterpreting this one.

Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • #3 is from a time when Shimla Mirch was only a handful of streets, there were few barnacles, and every single Street Project seemed to need them. Barnacles take 20 minutes of real time to re-generate, so when they were scarce many of the testers would form parties to leverage the 'more than one' loop. I don't think it applies anymore. As for the knowing, Barnacle Parties are pretty easy to spot... half a dozen people standing around a barnacle.

    #2 is a bit of a murky area.

    #1 can be boiled down to one word, ask. (Spose that applies to #2 as well)
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I probable agree with the first two, I dont mind someone sharing my rock if they asked! But standing right inside my avatar [this happened this test] is ..well a little rude if not full on nasty.

    As for rule 3 seriously If I want a barnical im having one end of :P
    Posted 20 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If IRL I saw a $20 bill lying on the ground with no one around I'd certainly stop and pick it up (who wouldn't?!). But if I saw $20 bill lying at someone's feet I wouldn't dare walk up and pick it up! So I certainly would not do that in a game!

    Now that I finished the Mining quest where I had to mine a specific amount in a time period, it doesn't really bother me to have someone else mine the same rock.

    Barnacles? Not sure about that one. If I feel like scraping barnacles that I see I just do it :p Though if I see a group around a bunch of barnacles I'll just walk by and not disturb them. 
    Posted 20 months ago by PittyPat is sad Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Add this one, because it should be on ANY list of "unwritten rules":

    Thou shalt not harvest that which you didn't plant in the Community Gardens without replanting it.

    And thoust had bloody well better not harvest stuff you didst not sow wilst leaving a dirty plot behind.

    Because the Herbalist will follow you around if she catches you doing this until she annoys you to death. And she may just repeatedly garlic kiss you until you repent and hoe the plots and replant them.
    Posted 20 months ago by Murri Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 5) Thou shalt not collect items in another's home UNLESS there is a party or UNLESS you have the owner's express permission to do so. 
    This one has certainly sparked a lot of controversy. First there was the Sparkleshine episode, now there's the (related) GemGemxxxx episode. People are divided on whether items should be accessible in other's homes, or whether it's proper etiquette to pick items up. I personally think it's more realistic for items to be accessible, and would rather it stay that way. However, the above rule remains, and people really should use common sense to the extent that they can, and conduct themselves appropiately.                                 
    Posted 20 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't like being expected to conform to unwritten rules.  We're all equal in our differing play goals.  Demands made by groups or influential players shouldn't hold special power.
    Posted 20 months ago by rothko Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh no, I hope it didn't seem like I was demanding :( I thought mine seemed reasonable, since it's just manners not to steal property.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL @Murri! Your thee's and thou's and wilst's had me LOL!  Thanks for that!

    I *would* like to see the ability to pick stuff up disabled in our homes.  Then we wouldn't have to worry about who we were letting it.  Not sure how big a deal that is, code-wise.
    Posted 20 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Though these rules make sense, +1 rothko. 

    Edit: Also, +1 below!
    Posted 20 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Only one rule is needed. Apply your manners and ask!
    Posted 20 months ago by tweetypie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, I'm gonna have to support rothko as well.  With Shimla Mirch being newly expanded and barnacles being more plentiful, barnacle parties are no longer necessary.  Everything else mentioned here just comes down to common courtesy.  If you think it might belong to someone, ask.  If someone's working on it actively, don't mess with it without permission.  If you harvest a crop that someone else planted and left behind, plant something back.

    As far as rock mining goes, the difference in price between selling a stack of dullite and a stack of sparkly is 100 currants.  The only time mining for Beryl/Sparkly is more important than dullite is if you're making compounds and powders.  So yeah, if someone is working on a Beryl/Sparkly rock, it might be good manners to leave it alone if all you're going for is money and not grinding rocks for elements.  Otherwise, it's not really that big a deal.
    Posted 20 months ago by Doc Oblongata Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 6) Unwritten rules shall be null and void if written

    Seriously - agree with 1, not 2 or 3....forgotten 4 but i'll say i agree and I loved 5.......6 was the best though.
    Posted 20 months ago by Bob Apple Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Guys - I don't think Shepherdmoon or anyone who wrote a rule here was trying to be demanding, just reviewing some things we've had controversies over in the past. Like Doc Oblongata said, use common courtesy and everything will be fine.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cupcake, I realize these are controversial issues.  We don't know each other in the game.  It is not like I would ever enter your house and pick up something without asking. 

    What you call stealing I see as you getting burned for choosing to take a risk with a particular player who was totally playing within the rules of the game.  I don't think the game should protect you.  I think you should protect you. 

    I do think we should have the ability to kick people out of our houses. 

    I once got yelled at by a camping player for scraping a barnacle before he did.  He thought yoinking was rude.  I thought, and still think, claiming a resource by camping is rude.  What was funny is he yelled at me then ran away.  Before I could give him the barnacles.
    Posted 20 months ago by rothko Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I seriously don't have a problem with people on my friends list harvesting my crops. So I would like to put in writing somewhere that this is okay. (Leave my chicken small please though). I don't yet have a gnome. I suppose if I worked really hard to get an item and someone inadvertently took it I would ask for it back. If they did it on purpose or didn't return an item, I would be upset and block them. I don't think there is really any other way to go about any of the above. It's a public game and is JUST a game. Common courtesy is needed but just like in real life there are those that won't follow for whatever reasons.
    Posted 20 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with you, rothko, in the sense that 1) the game shouldn't "protect" you, i.e. items should be accessible within anyone's home, (here is where common sense is needed) and 2) that, yes, we should definitely have the ability to kick people out of houses. My opinion is that the game itself's rules should remain the same (aside from kicking out of houses), but that there are some ground rules that should be laid so new players can get a sense of what's appropriate and what's not.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You know what, people will play their own game. It is what it is...
    Posted 20 months ago by tweetypie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh dear. Guess I made some mistakes during my first day here. Oops. Sorry guys. I did harvest some stuff in the community gardens, BUT I also planted back and cleaned up. En was there, so if you see this En, sorry if I took something that belonged to you. Hope you took my cucumber later ;-).
    Posted 20 months ago by Tricky Woo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tricky Woo - In my book, you did what is polite. You harvested and planted again. It is a "Community" garden. When planting in a public space, we should not expect what we plant to really "belong" to us at all. But we should expect people to not be greedy and fail to give back to the community.

    I REALLY like the idea of being able to kick someone out of your house if they don't behave. Just like in real life. Though we shouldn't have to go to the bureaucratic hall for that restraining order.

    And Pirate Apples, I'm blushing with pleasure that you found my archaic prose amusing.
    Posted 20 months ago by Murri Subscriber! | Permalink
  • These rules can certainly help someone come off as polite, but when in doubt, I think the best action to take is to ask permission. Also, as far as setting things on the ground goes, doing such is taking a risk in and of itself that someone will rush right by and pick up your loot before you have the chance to even type "Sto", let alone "p". Thus is the case in every game where you can set your precious items down upon the ground.

    As far as houses go, it would be horridly rude to enter someone's house under the grace of their permission and then steal from them, but on the other hand, that house owner can regulate who comes in and out of their house. It's similar to asking a friend to hold onto some items for you; only ask those who you can trust, and only let those who you trust into your house if you have some valuable things lying around that you don't want them to take.
    Posted 20 months ago by Vexia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think alot of people misread the intent of my original post.... If you read carefully (especially the first paragraph), you will see that I disagree with making up unwritten rules because all that does is create conflict. There is a vast reservoir of deep emotion on either side of the fence of these rules (as hinted at by some posts above), and the "rules" end up just causing a bunch of bad feelings that make the game less enjoyable for everyone involved.

    Please don't let this stop you from posting further unofficial rules, though: I think it is very useful to get these out into the open so we can have a conversation about them. It is necessary for making sure we can maintain a great, friendly community. Remember, though, that as we go into beta and then live, there will be a huge influx of new players that haven't read these things, have no clue what is going on, or couldn't care what you have to say anyway...

    My suggestion is that everyone execute common courtesy in everything they do, but not be too stressed out about irritating another player (which would only stifle your game-play and make it less fun). On the other spectrum of things, I would suggest that people don't sweat it when others cross-the-line of these social faux-pas.... If you do, will you find yourself fighting off a stroke once more players get into the game, and no one wants to see that happen to you (we all love you here *hugs*). :)  I am saying these things based off of experience from FS, where I was deeply involved in the forums and reading through all the drama that originated from these exact same sorts of situations... not pleasant.
    Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is the second time I have said this today, but I think it is appropriate as a unwritten rule.
    "Do not judge how other people behave by your expiations/standards" 
    doing so will only ever make YOU feel let down. :)
    Posted 20 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Vexia, that would make sense about the houses and letting people in except that, as happened to a friend, a person "following" you can just go right inside without your permission and without knocking....
    Posted 20 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Rascalmom Really, wow I never new that could happen. That should never be allowed. I'm going to have to try that next test though. I will obviously not stork some stranger home. I'll introduce my self first :P
    Posted 20 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Misha, I also live my life with that principle in mind. Our uniqueness is UNIQUE.
    Posted 20 months ago by tweetypie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ooops,i to took some stuff off the ground when i first played,not a lot though,think it was some meat,so sorry whoever it was..lol..;0
    Posted 20 months ago by Joos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i just like to add,the meat was yummy,so thank you!
    Posted 20 months ago by Joos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I say, drop things on the ground at your own risk. That said, I leave things under people's feet alone. And I've had fun testing this out.

    A few tests back I would drop something of medium value by my feet to see if anyone would take it, if not I would take a few steps away slowly getting further and further from it. I also tried this with high value items, like diamonds. It was a lot of fun seeing what people would do.

    Mining... Anyone that thinks you own a mining node because you were there first, well, in my book that is making some huge assumptions. Sparkly rocks are in high demand, why should you get the whole node to yourself!!!! Silly in my opinion. In fact I think it is quite arrogant to make that assumption and I refuse to adhere to that.

    Community Gardens... TweetyPie, no worries, I make no assumptions about who owns what in a public or community place.
    Posted 20 months ago by en Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Learning curve. I dropped items for a quest, I was stood over them..Joe Blogs hits town and picks them up. My response "please don't do that"..he, yes I know it was a he, blatantly ignored me and carried on picking my things up. I would have splanked the dude but didn't have any planks. Meh, would it have made a difference..no, probably not, he didn't give a flying...I will continue to observe and watch behaviour, please don't be offended If I decline friend requests. I like to have a rapoor with people. 
    Posted 20 months ago by tweetypie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol Bob Apples... you totally crack me up :)  love your posts... love your forum comments too :p

    +1 Doc... just ask...

    I've seen these unwritten rules as well.  Personally one should not get upset over the sharing of mining.  That's just plain silly... quest or no quest.  So please, if I'm mining and you want to 'get up on that', be my guest!  BUT... I mean BUTT ... if your pick gets caught in my arse and I need it surgically removed, I expect no-no powder in return to deal with the pain.
    Posted 20 months ago by RainyRain Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So I just started playing Glitch this last test.  Hi.  Nice to meet you folks.  I have a question about #2.  During gameplay, it did make sense to me not to mine a rock that someone else is working on but I didn't realize until reading it in the forums that it was considered rude to only partially mine a rock.  Actually, I didn't know you could mine a rock until it was gone.  Why isn't it considered rude to hog the whole rock yourself and not leave some for others?  What is the regeneration of rocks?  There don't seem to be that many and I assumed that we were share them with others.
    Posted 20 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @MaryLiLamb if you don't mine a rock right down to the ground, it doesn't regenerate, so it's good practice to do that.  And there is at least one quest that asks you to mine a certain number of whole rocks in a game day.  It's really a pain if you are doing that quest and someone comes along and takes a piece of your rock.

    Seems to me that what all these "rules" boil down to is "don't be an asshole."  This isn't a competition; no one is going to "win" anything.  It's all about exploring and hanging out and being silly and not getting into other people's way.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tradescantia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @MaryLiLamb: To hit your three points:) 1. I think that one about mining same rocks has been debated a fair bit in various spots in the forums; not sure I've really seen much consensus on that yet. When I first played I saw tons of rocks with people arriving and mining on same rock, so I did it all the time. Then I got to wondering whether that was cool or not and asked in a forum. Got wide range of responses. Decided I'd just go with being possibly more restrained than I need to be and avoid jumping on someone else's rock or at least ask if it's okay before I join. I believe devs have a whole new area planned, called Shimla Caverns, that we're all hoping will be full of rocks, so as to provide more for everyone. 2. I've never seen the idea that only partially mining a rock is rude...I see partially mined rocks everywhere. Figured one mines till you run out of room or get enough stuff and move on. 3. The rocks regenerate at different paces (I think; someone can correct me if I'm wrong). There's a sparkly one in my neighborhood that seems to reset more quickly and one that is much more slow. Hope that helps a bit:)
    Posted 20 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, as to point 2, just read Tradescantia's reply. Interesting. I'll have to finish off the rocks more now! :D
    Posted 20 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think 1/2 of us FSers left part of the rock behind because in FS the pollution still regenerated even when you did that. So I was leaving part of the rocks un-mined thinking that someone would have something to mine if they got there before the rock regenerated.
    Wasn't until I read in the forum that this wasn't the case and that you had to take all of the rock before more of it would grow back...Oopsie on my part :P
    Also, when I 1st started here, I would see things on the ground and pick them up - another left-over thing from beta days in FS for me. There was a time in FS beta that when someone would get rid of something out in the worlds (destroy it) then someone could actually see it on the ground and pick it up...no harm no foul.
    So I did not know that it wasn't the case here as well. But once I read that peeps might be re-arranging their inventories and needing to set things down to do so I realised differently.
    Posted 20 months ago by sgjo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Tradescantia and Rascalmom, thanks.  I will be sure to mine down to stone dust from now on!
    Posted 20 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ok, in one of the early tests I left some inventory in a cupboard in a house - no idea where now, so hope someone got a nice surprise :)  I do not have a house, never seem to have enough cash.  When mining I have always cleared the whole rock as I needed all the items, but like others I assumed they regenerated - now I know.

    As regards "rules", I think more like guidelines, if someone wants to steal, be rude etc they will be.  But as others have said, politeness and courtesy are where it is at behave like that and everyone will be just fine, but start to steal and be nasty - you will get a reputation very quickly. 
    Posted 20 months ago by riscy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with you Shepherdmoon, unwritten "rules" caused a lot of discord in Faunasphere. I hope if I do something considered rude that I will be given the benefit of the doubt. Many people don't read the forums and have no idea what is expected by some players. I've found things on the ground and picked them up. (Not grabbed away beneath another's feet) How is a new player to know if resources aren't just scattered around for taking? I've had to drop items in my own inventory because I didn't realize the limits we had. Those items were undoubtedly picked up by someone behind me and I hope they were happy to find them. Now I know I need to have an extra bag with me for new items. I think it will make for a better community if we can refrain from taking things personally and labeling people as rude
    when they don't comply to our own ideas of fair play. (I'm not talking about generally accepted courtesy)  

    Glitch can help by perhaps creating "safe zones" for sorting items or making quests that educate in that direction. However it may be intentional that rocks may be mined by one or many without dictating how it "should" be done. That is part of what makes this type of game interesting. The real world is full of all kinds of folks. Same with games. IMHO, if we can err on the side of generosity when judging a persons actions, we'll be happier for it.
    Posted 20 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Generally people do Riverwalker. More often than not, people do exhibit common courtesy in Glitch. Don't let the Forum threads fool you, this isn't a militant thing. Usually there's an in-game reason for the courtesies, which get explained in-game. The problem comes when the rude person is so tunnel visioned that there's no opportunity to explain. "Can I Join?", "Who owns this?", and "Hello." are simple sentences people should take the time to type. Course the other half of it is waiting for a response.

    So you're at the grocery and some stranger walks up, bags half your stuff, and takes off... ummm okay, weird, less-so if they'd said Hello... and I'd wonder the whole way home if I actually had all of my groceries.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Didn't know at all about mining the rocks entirely. The last piece often have only one ore in it, so I don't mine it. ^^' I thought they respawn anyway.
    I'll try to change this bad habit of mine...
    Posted 20 months ago by Moumoushou Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It helps in a way to see the "unwritten" rules, the respawning of the rocks especially; I had been sometimes only mining part thinking it was better to leave some for the next player. Now, if I have enough energy and room I'll mine till the rock is gone so that it respawns faster. As far as the mining quest, I have that one to do, so I guess I'll have to try to find an area w/less people to increase my chances of mining a complete rock until I get the number needed for the quest.
    Posted 20 months ago by Gizmospooky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been staying out of this until now , but I would like to add that if you have a lot of people running around with the attitude that it's not real and hence they can do whatever rude/obnoxious behavior they want, it not only affects the person behind the avatar as has been pointed out, it also affects the game as a whole. Most people would not like to play a game where your stuff is stolen or other players are rude to you. Kinda like kickin' the developers in the teeth when you start chasing off players by not playing well with others.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • well said, divine.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Divine: I resemble that remark: there are some old text-based MUD's (see, I've been playing online mutliplayer games for a LONG time), that I logged into briefly, only to reject them  after I was almost instantly killed by players that specifically sought after newbies as easy kills, or pick-pocketed them because they were easy targets. The best ones were the ones where there were rules that kept that sort of thing in check--preying on the innocent and the weak does NOT make the game fun... unless you're the jerk doing it, in which case, I hope it was worth it to scare some potentially good players away and kill the game. I also tried out some shoot-em-up type MMO's more recently, and lost interest when I realized that other players despised newbies and went out of their way to ignore them. These types of games require you to work with others, so it's hard to do that when nobody wants to associate with people they don't already know.  I can play a single-player game if that's the way it is going to be.
    Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's ok to leave a partial rock.  At worst, it's all the same.  You actually do benefit the next miner to come along.  Had you cleared it, they'd have found nothing.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This list of "unofficial" rules seems extremely bureaucratic. Fortunately there are bureaucratic skills to be learned.

    I think It would be an excellent idea for the devs to develop a skill path beyond pen personship that leads to police or some sort of in game official that can issue "citations" for "violations". The obvious path of this is to potentially begin to create a Glitchvermet (not sure if that's the best combo of Glitch and government)


    It's obvious that we all like a little bureaucracy now and then!


    Speaking of unoffical rules, I'm going to cross post this in Ideas. Is that against the rules?
    Posted 20 months ago by Blivet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Go for it, Blivet--don't know what the unofficial "rule" is on that one, but I'm OK with it.
    Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Please add this rule:
    Thou shall not stick around other people's houses and follow them into the house, thou shall just knock.
    Because, seriously, I feel nervous at the sight of someone else moping around in front of my house and that puts me off going home immediately. From the number of 'robberies' I've read, thieves use this technique- sit in front of people's houses waiting for them to come home, follow just before said person disapears into their home and sweeps the whole place clean of belongings. If you want to come into my house, just knock and PM me so that I can trust you.
    Posted 20 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Having been on Glitch for a long time now, I think the social norms are changing, and that they reasonably will as the game develops. 

    I've noticed in in particular with the rocks, because I am a big-time miner. And with those, I think that part of the issue is that now there aren't really enough rocks for the people who want to mine them. When we first started mining, that wasn't so much of an issue, and it seemed appropriate for someone to just go to another rock. But now, there just aren't enough rocks.

    (So I went through a phase of being annoyed with people who started mining a rock I was already working on, and then realized both that it was newer players and that there aren't enough rocks and changed my tune. Though, so far, I'm not comfortable mining a rock that someone else is already working.)

    In this particular case, I think that Glitch should change the dynamics of mining so that the conflicts are reduced. I think the game is causing this conflict, and unnecessarily so.

    There is actually a reason to leave the last bit of rock. On average, the last bit of rock is not going to yield as much as the previous whacks. So if one is being "logical" or "efficient" or something, it would make sense to leave the last bit behind. I don't do it, but I don't really blame people who do.

    Finally, I did not know about the barnacle "rule", so I have probably pissed people off in the past on that score. Ah well.
    Posted 20 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I remember there was a 'Someone is already mining this rock' message if you tried to mine a rock that someone else was, a while back... what happened to it?
    Posted 20 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
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