Topic

Glitches Ever Increasing Limits.

First off, I understand the assumed "need" for limits. In some aspects of the game I think they should be enforced such as the increased improbability of getting tickets. It was being abused for certain. ( OFF TOPIC NOTE: The tickets seriously need to stop giving bogus rewards as a side effect but back to topic.. ) 

The limits that have been placed on every day things I used to do for experience like making flour. I don't like being forced to do other things just to get experience. I was perfectly happy and I've gained most all of my levels just from making grain into flour, flour into buns, so on so forth. Now I can not do that because someone felt I should not gain experience from doing that X amount of times in a row and should have to wait until a new day. My understanding is glitch is meant to be played how you want it but my hand is kind of being forced here to do others things. 

The shrines are another example.. I've talked to many who do not like the shrine limits yet I haven't seen it brought up here in the forums. If someone wants to level like crazy and just dump their all into shrines. Why can they not do that? Glitch is becoming a more conformed method of play rather then a explore and do anything you want to your hearts desire. Now please keep in mind this is my personal opinion and I'm completely open and inviting discussion to let me know if you feel the same or the opposite. 

I just wonder how other people feel, anyone care to share their thoughts? 

Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • i agree with you i wonder...
    Posted 14 months ago by Epic Cheese Guy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch is a game of exploration and discovery.  The designers often change things up so that you do more exploration and discover new things. I like the changes so that there is more incentive to do lots of different things.
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I totally agree with you Deus! There seem to be way too many limits and it effects how we play in the end.
    Posted 14 months ago by Satomi Aislinn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Leveling isn't really that important.  Isn't it now capped at 60 anyway?  This game is envisioned by it's designers as a long term game that we can play within for years to come.  Rushing through the levels doesn't mesh at all with that vision.
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the way you put that WindBorn and I can definitely see your point of view. I understand that thought process but at the same time I don't like being forced not to do what I have been contempt and happy with this time playing glitch. I really love the game and the imagination of the gods but I'd like to play the way I want. That was my biggest attraction. There was no clear cut path that I had to walk down; Not that there is a definitive road now but the options have been narrowed and some roads closed off to me.  

    @Parrow, I like to level. I disregard it's importance. The level 60 cap is also another aspect of limitation. Did you know Clare? She was the first to make it to level 100 in beta I think*. I can not speak for her but I think she just found it appealing to her. ( Note these are my words and not hers so I can not know for certain). It's simply how I and other glitches would want to play.

    *EDIT* Changed MeMawMoo to Clare thanks WindBorn
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nearly every other online game lets you grind XP to gain levels.  I'm kind of surprised that you found it the biggest attraction to Glitch - If grinding XP was what most attracted me I would have gone for, I dunno, Maplestory... :D lol, i dunno.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, it was clare who was the first ever Glitch to make level 100 in beta
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lara, I am not simply grinding for levels but I do what I like and as a side effect it gains me levels which I also like. Now what I do doesn't do that and so a major portion of the appeal for that action is taken away making it less beneficial. Sure, I guess I could still continue to do that but why when it's not doing anything for me? Maple story and other MMO's are completely different from glitch and I wouldn't even reference them. I am not simply "grinding" for experience. Also, correct me if I am wrong but I didn't say that grinding for experience is my biggest attraction. 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh, whoops!  forgive me, i'm curious - so, the biggest attraction is just grinding (partially for levels)?
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • hmm, reading closer (though maybe you edited it?) it sounds like the biggest attraction is 'you can play how you want' - is that right or am i reading it wrong again?
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lara I think the only reply I can possibly give you is to re-iterate my previous words
    "
    I'd like to play the way I want. That was my biggest attraction. There was no clear cut path that I had to walk down; Not that there is a definitive road now but the options have been narrowed and some roads closed off to me.  
    "
    I apologize if that is confusing to you and you can not grasp my feelings as I lay them into words but sometimes I fall short. What I mean in that is I don't like playing the way YOU play. I like to play the way I play. I think we all are entitled to that.  MMORPG's are all cut path. You can only do X,Y,and Z but you can choose within those three. 

    *EDIT*, I didn't modify that line of text Lara. 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I probably shouldn't comment here because I don't understand the fundamental issue people in general have with not making a ton of experience with all their actions. I don't do my actions for the experience: I do them to gain currants to buy something I want, spend favor to speed up skills or acquire emblems, make food to survive on, or do/create things just for fun (or for the benefit of my friends). The experience and level gaining is a side-effect I happily accept, but that I do not live for. Therefore, I can't relate to the underlying issue at hand. Or maybe that in itself is a valid point here.
    Posted 14 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • uh, whoa, ok, can't ask simple questions in this forum i guess!

    edit: i'm out of here, again.  enjoy your thread.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm so glad you posted that Shepherdmoon. I think it does relate in a sense. My personal issue isn't of any consequence to you because it doesn't effect how you play. I'm glad it doesn't. That is how you play and you enjoy it. My way of playing is being a little restricted though so it feels like I am being stepped on. I hear a lot of people in game complain about it when brought up but no-one seems to post about it and get their feelings out. 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand completely, DeusAphor. I'm sorry that a part of the game you previously enjoyed has been nerfed. This has happened to me in other ways in the past as well, but I found other shiny things to pique my interest that made me forget altogether about that one thing that seemed so all-consumingly fun and important before. Glitch is wonderful in that way: there are so many ways to play it, and it offers great personal satisfaction to those that are willing enough to try something new, so that they can discover an appreciation for the game on an entirely different level. It may even be something they would never have imagined enjoying before they left their comfort zone (speaking from personal experience.)
    Posted 14 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think you have a wonderful way of words Shepherd and I can fully understand and see your point of view. I think you are right and ultimately I am going to have to do this but in the end I don't like having to. The way I play glitch also has a lot to do with this. I mostly play at work while I wait for something to compile or some ETL to finnish. This means I only have quick moments to do up some cooking and chatting with friends. Not a lot for harvesting, squeezing, and the occasional nibble on piggies. It's actually harder to do other things so I'd found something that was easy for me to do and enough to keep me in game talking and playing with my great friends I've made here. 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh my... get a room you two!
    Posted 14 months ago by Saraneth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am never a fan of losing freedoms, be it in a game or in real life. I see each new limitation as a way of controlling what players are able to do as well as manipulating game play to a degree. Its not exactly fair to let some people gain unlimited XP from one task, then a week later backpedaling and deciding its no longer allowed. That creates a skewed sense of achievement and throws off  fair balanced playing field. Its counterproductive to what the reset was supposed to accomplish.

    The limitations may not seem like a big deal on the surface, but to those who can only play for a certain amount of time each day, it basically is a roadblock in any hope to achieving a specific goal. I realize the purpose of these limitations is to prevent people from racing too far up the level leader board, however at the same time it punishes those with less time to play as well as cheapens aspects of the game.

    I agree with the people who said we shouldn't be forced to do other things that we may not want to do. That philosphy contradicts what the game stands for as well takes enjoyment out of the game. If I want to cook or donate all day, I don't understand why I'm not able to earn XP doing it the whole time when others could do it before the policy was changed.
    Posted 14 months ago by Gordon Gekko Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Saraneth,  Haha. . .  Yeah.. *ehm* Not the way I'd like someone to take giving a compliment but I see where you came from. :P 

    @Gordon, I'd say that your words are Wonderful as well but then Saraneth will jump back in here. :P 
    On a serious note though thank you for commenting and I think you've put a lot of my thoughts into words better then I have even. 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep...the limitations put on the skills I love to do have definitely limited my enjoyment of this game.
    Posted 14 months ago by sgjo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'll say it then. Your words are wonderful Gordon. :D
    Posted 14 months ago by Saraneth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Saraneth you're attitude is just beautiful. I love you're humor it's just bedazzling and it does things to me so inappropriate to post in this forum. 

    @sgjo Thanks for letting us know. 

    -On a side note if it's something that hasn't been explicitly mentioned but you feel it's a limitation recently placed or not. I think it would be beneficial to explain exactly what it is that's hindering your enjoyment. 

    -Then, maybe I should make the feature request of polls. ( as far as I know we do not currently have those, do we? )
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  •  I kind of agree... It seems like each day restrictions and limitations are being added. If anything, these restrictions are just going to end up making Glitch competitive; before, when people could level up doing the same thing over and over it was a little easier, so leveling wasn't as big of a deal. But, if a game is non-competitive (as Glitch claims to be), I don't see why they'd make a rule saying you can't level up only by grinding flour. Also, the rule against selling/donating hogtied piggies kind of bugs me. Before I could make my own piggy eggs, hatch and grow them to full size, hogtie them and donate/sale them, but now the only place I can sell my own fairly gained piggies is through auction, and I can't donate them at all. And the price of hogtied piggies is steadily dropping in auction because everyone has to sell them there now. I don't know why they can't make it so there's a limit on how many wild piggies you can hogtie a day, instead of keeping you from selling your own fully grown pigs. :/
    Posted 14 months ago by glumpot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Glumpot

    Thank you for sharing Glumpot. I do not deal with pigs very much so I'm out of my area in this regard but from what you have said I'd totally agree. This is a topic where I can see some kind of limitation like the suggestion you provided would do good and is well placed while too much actually hurts others more then it does good. This is a real tricky subject, playing the devils advocate someone might argue that a limit how many you can capture hinders their game play while no enforcement leads to abuse and no piggies out on the roads. Perhaps this would be an area where a poll on what to do might come in handy. 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree completely.  I signed up because I heard it was a game that could be played any way the player wanted.  That's what was attractive to me, and to hear that there are more limits every day, makes me wonder what the game will be like in a month or two.  ~O.o~  Oh no!
    Posted 14 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In regards to the cookingloop specifically, I believe the official line ran something like 'As the result of several exceptionally favorable mechanics, people're spending all their time doing [that], which is no fun, so we'll limit it.' Omitting the aspect of personal freedoms for the moment, I found the loop to be a "broken" element that's a symptom of more fundamental issues in the crafting system. Prior to the XP limit, it was entirely possible for an individual, unassisted, to break 800kxp/realday (more with an assistant). (Here's a fun exercise: With a few dedicated friends, it is entirely possible to go from L1 to L60 in a single day.) Unfortunately, what we're going through right now is another level of shaking down balance issues.  I think the cooking cap scales by level, but you can create an absolutely tremendous amount of energy relevant to your level before you hit it: with a rough estimate of what my cap is, I'd be able to spit out 14,300 energy worth of sammiches alone. It's unlikely for "normal" play to hit this limit.

    As far as personal freedoms go, I find it personally irritating (I've been unexpectedly clotheslined by fixes [defined as modifications to mechanics that I believed to exhibit atypical or inappropriate behavior] upwards of five times since launch; the disassembly of systems is something I find fascinating) but also appreciate and/or understand most of the changes that have gone through. The cooking change does indeed increase competition, but by making more actions give a competitive amount of xp: I think that's a GOOD thing. There've been a multitude of such instances that have since been modified for, in my opinion, the better. Yes, many of those changes sucked for myself, either by tacking extra days onto my skills, decreasing the profitability of a few enterprises or decreasing my rate of xp gain, but I think they generally served to improve the balance and flow of the game for the majority of players. (Not that I necessarily believe that that the options taken were the best ones-- just that they were generally in the right direction.)

    As far as playing however you want to play it... either you play it however you want to play it and don't care about behavior that increases game-supplied values, or you play it in such a fashion that the numbers go up. There isn't too much of a middle-ground there. Glitch hit a pretty good spot with minimizing the advantage of a high level. Increased mood/energy rot meaning it costs more to maintain their levels is a negative. I guess that a high energy cap means you can go a longer time without having to eat? Yay. And the free energy restore at a new day, but that's a pretty minor advantage too. (Which, without checking the math, I'm mostly convinced THAT advantage gets killed by the greater absolute value of the rot.)
    Posted 14 months ago by Aoi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The limits haven't affected the way I play all that much... yet.
    I think I noticed some other things being done like not being able to follow through locked doors anymore? I may be wrong about that one, or it may just be in some places.
    I can completely understand being put off by not being allowed to play the way you've always played and there have been quite a few limits placed since open. The level cap will probably bother me once I've reached 60 but for now I'm still good. I would like to see more freedoms than limits in the game for sure so keep posting and see what happens. The devs are usually pretty good at taking our suggestions to keep the game enjoyable for everyone. =)
    Posted 14 months ago by Gertie Mack Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think I might be bothered by the experience limits if levels were significant, but that just isn't the case with Glitch. Outside of the level restrictions on a couple of skills (which are very, very low), the only effect levels have is determining how long you can go before you have to eat.

    You don't ever get the ability to regenerate energy naturally (apart from spending time in a particular zone), which leaves you with two main ways to replenish it: food and meditation (which replenishes a fixed amount, not a percentage). As a result, the only difference between someone who uses 1000 energy with a 1000 energy cap and someone who uses 1000 energy with a 100 energy cap is that the player with the 100 energy cap will have to 10 times to fill up instead of once.

    The higher your level gets, the less significant that higher cap actually is, as well. There's very little that really mandates 1000 energy. The only conceivable benefit is that, if you play for a limited amount of time, you could do a number of energy-efficient things without running out of energy and then log off to let the new day renew you, whereas someone with a lower cap will be forced to refuel somewhat regularly.

    All of that said, while I don't quite grasp people's motivation to level, that doesn't mean it's invalid. As decorative as levels may be, they're clearly important to some people, and the caps don't seem to make a whole lot of sense on the surface unless their purpose is to diversify the marketplace. If that's the case, you'd be better off just coding a system to award scaling bonus experience for under-auctioned items (e.g. if there's 0 of something on the market, you get +X experience for making it, if there's 1 of something  you get +X - y).
    Posted 14 months ago by Eleni Ivanova Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the main thing that bothers me is when I'm doing something like donating, cooking, mining, nibbling, choking, etc...and suddenly realizing that it's been 'nerfed' or capped (and without any prior notice or known 'issues' with it)...it can kinda feel like it's being 'snuck' into the game in a way.
    Posted 14 months ago by Dick Dastardly Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I will chime in, much less eloquently than those before me, that the caps have always annoyed me. They seem forced and as if they were bandaids to fix some sort of balance problem, rather than addressing the balance itself... if, in fact, there is a problem to be addressed.

    I am walking a bit of a fine line here. It didn't bother me at all when it changed so that you could sing to a specific butterfly only once each game day. But as the auctions were becoming a bigger (if mechanically annoying) thing, and I decided to explore the potential for being a bean maker... and then, wham! oh, but you can only make N of each kind of bean per day. What's THAT all about? (I'm sure this is like the flour thing, but I hate the cooking skills and have not done any since beta.) To my mind, there is a natural cap in place having to do with the need to collect resources.*

    I really didn't mind the butterflies, which made levelling up so easy that en and I used to do just enough to pass each other on the leaderboards for a while there. That was an oversight. But some of the stuff that's recently been emplaced feels like "we don't want you to be too successful".

    We are told that there's not one way to play Glitch or not one way to enjoy Glitch, but it's feeling increasingly like we're being told we're playing it wrong.

    *I guess unless, as Aoi suggests, your friends collect the resources for you so that you can just grind away. So putting the caps in place is perhaps seen as preventing this sort of behavior? It still feels really heavy handed, and that there should be a better way of dealing with it.
    Posted 14 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I find myself plenty limited by the need to gather supplies (which involves the limits of time, energy, ways to replenish energy, attention span, etc etc). The experience cap definitely was not another roadblock I needed. 

    My style of play: gather a lot. Gather for days. Wander around until my bags are full. Then go home and make a ton of stuff all at once. It keeps me organized instead of making one thing, gathering some more, making another thing, gathering again... it's just how I want to play Glitch.

    Could I season all these beans without getting the exp? Sure I could, and I would still get the beans and the badge, but I like exp. Exp and levels give me that little shot of glee after some hard work of gathering and crafting, it's difficult to explain.

    So read above for those who put it in words better than mine, I fail. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Garney Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I realize the purpose of these limitations is to prevent people from racing too far up the level leader board, however at the same time it punishes those with less time to play as well as cheapens aspects of the game."

    Uh, no?
    The XP cap significantly punishes those who have MORE time to play.
    I can reach my bean seasoning cap in less than ten minutes, and the cap for one particular meal in (way) under 5 minutes.
    This means that someone with 30 minutes to play, while doing the same actions as someone with much longer to play, will receive the same amount of xp!
    I play Glitch some days for literally the entire game day (and then some, but that is irrelevant as the caps are restarted at the same time for everyone).

    I can do my Gain XP Fast tasks in about 15 minutes if I am prepared in advance. Let's take a complete absolute guess and say those tasks gain me....10,000 xp. I spend all game day in-game. I gain 10,000 xp for those tasks exactly as someone who plays for 15 minutes. Thus, they get almost 1k xp per minute, and I get 42 xp per minute. Who exactly is disadvantaged here?
    The only tasks which reward players who play for longer times are those tasks which are not xp capped. I can make 5400 xp mining for an hour, or 1350 xp mining for 15 minutes. If I make seasoned beans all day long, I am no better off in XP than those who made them for 10 minutes.
    Posted 14 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why must one earn XP in order to enjoy doing what one does? Why not just do what you do?

    It's not like level really, truly affects much at all in this game. If I'm in the mood to make a million buns in four hours, then by golly, I'm gonna make them, regardless of the XP I get or don't get. It doesn't hamper me from doing anything I want to do. It doesn't force me to stop and do something else. I am merely limited by my time, energy, interest and resources.

    When I make meat tetrazzinis, there are so many components to make in the process, that I get tons of XP. By the time I've made 80-100, I'm ready to make something else like earth shakers (mostly because I need to renew my resources). There's a bunch more XP.

    If I truly want to maximize my XP for the day, I can figure out strategies. And I think that's the important thing... if you want to level quickly, if that is your thing- then figure out a strategy. Work for that goal. Don't expect to reach it by sitting around on your buns making buns all day (I don't think that would work even if their XP was unlimited, being very fast that is).

    I do realize, that's not the way some want to do it (it's not really the way I always want to do it). And that's well and good. But what confuses me is the ones that I'd imagine are making things simply for the joy of making them would be more like my style: doing what I enjoy doing regardless of any supposed limits or lack of compensation.

    It's great to want to level fast. Or slow. Or however you want. It's great to make millions of buns. Or millions of lemons. But it doesn't mean there shouldn't be caps on what we get for our actions. There has to be some balance.

    Maybe those numbers for max XP on things like cooking need to be tweaked. That's fine. But I'm sure the devs have an idea of what imbalance may ensue if there are no caps at all (and I'm sure they're watching closely).

    (Note: Only addressing the OP right now, as I'm very tired, but it caught my eye. These are simply my initial views on the matter. I will probably catch up on all the far better written pros and cons tomorrow. And because I'm tired, I could very well be making a weird, incoherent point.)
    Posted 14 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've never had a problem with Energy. In fact I have a surplus of food enough to make as much exp if not more going around and collecting everything, then making all sorts of different drinks and other such things like a good little glitch they are pushing me to be(not including that 800K exp mentioned before). The only time Energy ever bothered me was when I was level 1-9. The idea of it now is pointless. At least to me. That being said my ability of playing glitch does not allow me to go around collecting all sorts of everything devoting hours of my time just to make certain things. All that aside, I don't even want to! 

    I understand the need for balance in other games. I fail to see the need of grand scale perfect balance in Glitch though. If they are shooting for balance then the current system needs to go out the window and everything needs to be redone. 

    "If it's not broken don't fix it" 

    Now I would consider being able to level from 1-60 in a day somewhat broken but that is a different problem that could have been fixed differently. I really like the thought of the "award scaling bonus experience for under-auctioned items"(heh)  as mentioned by Eleni. This would positively promote the market, not force it. 

    I try not to go into making points like this but but clare's post kind of hit a note on something I was holding back.  I was thinking.. Just the thought of a invisible force limiting me bothers me. You'll argue, "Glitch is a game", then "A game based on imagination". Who imagines limits?

    **Edit** Addition, 

    Also, to the peoples points who are just trying to say "why do you need exp" Because I like it, and some other people like it to. I can't see how it effects you, it effects me though. So I'm sure you're less likely to see my point and just ask that question. However I'd prefer if you would make a point to show how myself and others getting my xp for giggles, greed, or whatever reason that compels the individual effects you who plays the game without the want or need for it. 

    *EDIT**EDIT* ( I'm trying not to just post again but I just read over Ms Giggles ) 
    @ Ms Giggles
    I just want you to know I didn't read your post before I said the last edit. I think without me letting you know that it may have come across as an attack. I  appreciate your input and I think you had a good bit to say.  I think what I previously said does cover some of what you said though. Most of the people who ask why does XP matter wouldn't be effected by it one way or another. 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All the stuff I said in my last post on this topic is still pretty much true.

    And, what Biohazard said a few comments ago is also true —these changes level the playing field a bit for people who don't have as much time to play in a day.

    And, far be it from me to claim to know better what people like/don't like than the people themselves, but surely it is not "limits" that people don't like … the very definition of "game" implies constraints, rules, limits, etc. I'm pretty sure what people don't like is change: no one complains that you can normally only walk at 360 pixels per second or that you can only milk a butterfly twice per game day with AK3 or that it takes 5 energy to harvest a tree with Gardening I … because, duh, that's the way the game works! ;)

    But if we made it so you could instantly move anywhere in the world with no delay and nothing cost energy and you could harvest anything an infinite number of times per day — in fact, since having to harvest is itself a limitation, if we made it so you can just click a button and type out a number to produce an arbitrary amount of a given item … then nobody would play at all.

    Indeed, imagine if just made the level/XP a text input field and you could type out whatever you wanted (your level would only be limited by the length of time you were willing to hold down the '9' key) — that would obviously suck. So, as a general principle, "limits" are good. The question is: are these the right limits? Obviously we think so or we wouldn't change these things :)

    When we change something, it will upset some people's strategies and modes of play, but every change we make leaves open other possible choices and trade offs to get the same "advantage". We know some people won't like it and obviously we don't want people to not like Glitch or not like us, so the only reason we do it is because we think it's important for how the overall game fits together. Having a better balance in several key mechanics will make it easier to implement some of the changes we are planning to make in the near future. So: we hear you, but … we have to do what we think is right for the game and all players in the long run.
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you for your input stoot. You are right in a lot of regards. I am used to change, I like some change. I don't like the change when it takes my original appeal of the game away though. It's starting to follow a lot of the trends of others with the implementation of these caps though. ( In my opinion. ) Granted what you said true, I just never noticed the others as they were there from the start. You still only had few limitations in comparison to other games. I think you are better with words then I will ever be so it's harder for me to express to you how I feel without talking face to face. ( I may also be biased because you never got back to me when I called you out to a game of crowns*::: I don't know. ( Note, that's me doing it again... Calling you out( Because I can move 360 pixels per second and I can also fly.))) 

    *Addition* 

    It's late and I am tired, I want to delete this post off and start fresh in the morning for a better reply but I'll leave this up. 

    Just know that the only reason this upsets me so much is I really love this game. I don't think I'd care otherwise. 

    That's my last bit for tonight so goodnight everyone! 
    Posted 14 months ago by DeusAphor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ...and damn can he fly!
    (still seeing tree-tops =D)
    Posted 14 months ago by Sir Mixalatte Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I believe that leveling caps make the game more sustainable in the long run. By slowing down the time it takes for people to level up, the longer the leveling up process will be instead of people just rushing through it as fast as they can. Also, XP is not really that important either, as the point of glitch is hardly to level up.
    Posted 14 months ago by Reirei Umezaki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The thing that sucks is that people paid a subscription price for the game they loved and now that the money has been collected it seems the game keeps changing, taking away the freedoms they had when they joined. Not that we are entitled to any certain privileges, we didn't create the game and can't make the rules. But those who got used to playing the game a certain way  have a lot of change to deal with all of a sudden. Change can be very hard, especially when we see so much of it in a short period of time. I still LOVE playing this game but I sympathize with people like Deus who have paid a subscription fee and found a "happy place" and feel like they lost the game that they loved playing. It will be interesting to see how many people re-subscribe after their time is up with all the new limits being put in place. I've seen a few of my friends spending less and less time here, it will be sad to see them go. :(
    Posted 14 months ago by Gertie Mack Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I will observe that TS created the focus on levelling up, both with the big blue thermometer and with the leaderboards. Is working towards levelling up pointless? Absolutely. But on another level, so is playing this game. We should all be off curing cancer. Shoo! Go! Go cure cancer!

    I don't fully get fretting about people who have time to play all day vs. people who can stop in for just a few minutes. I mean, I get that it should not become the case where the people who can play less feel they can't find enjoyment in the game, but OTOH, there's a form of this where there's just a plurality of ways to enjoy the game and obviously those two extremes will amuse themselves differently.

    I do get that there's some sense in which this is about power in the game, and that the limits are an attempt to balance power. (I am still amazed that there's no Occupy Glitch group, BTW. So somehow, this is working!) I think on some levels my objection is that there are other ways to address power issues, and the limits as a mechanism seem unimaginative/unGlitchian.

    As I have said elsewhere (sorry, I'm not looking it up), I think there is a partial solution in having MORE leaderboards. A zillion leaderboards. A zillion DAILY leaderboards. So, I can't play for a long time every day, but today, I am the ruling spice tree bean maker. And when I come back next week, I am the ruling ruby miner. The week after that, I visit the most places in one day. Whatever. (Yes, these are sort of like the badges, but player initiated. And ephemeral.) As mentioned by others in this thread, this is in effect what some of us do. Today, I'm focusing on FOO. The limits cut this style of play off at the knees.

    As for the levelling up cap, I think I'm just surprised how it was implemented. I think what I might have done instead is to make each increasing level way way harder than the last. I imagine a multiplier of 10, but of course even if each level required twice as many XP as the one before, it wouldn't take all that long before striving to level up becomes almost Herculean, and then people would naturally exhaust themselves focusing on that. And give it up. Maybe?

    Okay, back to curing cancer. Or, you know, earning a living.
    Posted 14 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Gertie that it will be really sad if the caps cause people to stop playing so much. I am in no rush to level up and so getting the warning that I won't receive any more XP for an action for the rest of the game day doesn't effect me much and I carry on with what I was doing. But I must say that these caps, I believe, could affect people who play less more than those who play more. I play a lot and so I can be in the game for maybe 4 or 5 new game days each day - which means I would have that many times to reach the caps - while a lot of players would only be on for one or possibly two game days in any one day. 

    I think it is good, however, to have the encouragement to carry out different activities as I do believe the game could become boring if one were to stay at one activity because it gave the greatest rewards for them. I know that my opinion on that won't be popular but it is just my opinion. I understand that other people have a very different opinion on the matter.

    I love this game and I love the amount of different activities there are to do in it. I have game days where I am hell bent on harvesting every tree I can and other days when I am gnawing rock in pollokoo or the deeps. I cook up a storm and then I stand as if afk because I'm chatting away with friends in the chat window. Variety is the spice of life but whether or not people should be pushed into doing various different activities in order to gain xp is likely to be a contentious issue
    Posted 14 months ago by The Pheebs Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Possibly tangential, but maybe some subconscious lurking irk - the limits aren't clear.

    Let's say you're seasoning beans, like I was earlier. I had gathered a bunch of material in my usual fashion of gathering for several game days before trekking home to huddle in my kitchen and season eggs and beans.

    First, I had enough to make 30 of one kind of bean. I got some odd number of exp and the warning that I'd get no more from that recipe. Okay, that's fine, I'd run out of materials anyway. The next recipe was 36, again the warning, and no display of ANY exp earned. Um, all right. I'm pretty sure it was a different recipe, but I could have been wrong, so on I trek.

    Decide to temper back and make 20 of the next couple beans on the theory that maybe the cap is just a straight 20 of everything across the board. Now I'm in a quandry, which recipes have I maxed out? All recipes need a little grinding here or there and by the time I grind what I need, I've forgotten my plan. Viewing the recipes gives no hint that I've hit the exp limit. Frustrated, I just let myself die and squished grapes to vent before logging off.

    Grapes are therapeutic.
    Posted 14 months ago by Garney Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you want to extend your XP each day, drink a lot of lemonade.

    That lowers your mood, which in turn lowers the amount of XP you get for an action.  So you can make a lot more flour per day because you don't run into the XP cap as fast. 

    Personally, I just make what I want, and don't keep an eye on my mood.  I almost never get full XP for an action except during the first few minutes of a game day.  If I want to make a lot of Awesome Stew, I make it. 
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While it's true that people typically don't like change, what they really don't like is change without warning or explanation.
    Posted 14 months ago by Biff Beefbat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That lowers your mood, which in turn lowers the amount of XP you get for an action.  So you can make a lot more flour per day because you don't run into the XP cap as fast.  

    I'm not sure that makes sense -  the XP limit is the same,  earning it more slowly doesn't make a difference  -  you can still make it even if you don't get XP from doing so
    Posted 14 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Of course it doesn't make any sense. 

    If you want to make 1,000 flour, you can do so.  But if people feel that they don't want to make anything unless it gives them xp (which is the part that really doesn't make any sense), then there's a way to stretch out your game play within your self-defined rules of "fun".
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think it's the amount of XP that is the problem.  The problem is that a message telling you that you won't get more XP from something *feels* like a message telling you that you shouldn't be doing it.  I have a friend who barely plays now that the caps have been implemented.  He didn't throw a fit and say that the caps were ruining the game, he simply didn't enjoy doing the things he used to do.  That is a great concern to me.

    If the amount of XP from crafting is a problem, then lower the XP you get from crafting.  If you did that then only the people racing for max level would notice.  The change that was made feels bad.  I feel bad when I make things that go above the XP cap for the day because I feel like I'm being told not to.

    And ultimately I think that concentrating too much on ways to get lots of XP makes the game feel more and more like getting XP is what you are supposed to be doing instead of it just being a side effect of everything you do.  I am not that interested in XP, but when you focus your efforts on balancing XP it makes me feel like XP is the part of the game you are emphasizing.  By forbidding, limiting, or controlling something, you are putting a focus on it. Your example of being able to type our level into a text box is a good illustration of this.  In such a system no one would care about levels at all.  The restrictions are what creates the interest in them.

    If different things give very different results - if one player rockets through levels by using every possible advantage and having a team of friends help - then everyone is just playing the game differently.  If everything is perfectly balanced then people who are higher up than you are playing "better" than you are.  The more balance that is introduced in XP, the more it feels like the game is designed to be a competition of who can get the most XP, and the more you legitimize that competition.

    I'm #7 on the XP leaderboards, not because I tried to go out of my way to XP, but just because I played the game a lot.  If I thought that most people saw my XP total as an indicator that I have played the game "better" than they have then I wouldn't want to play anymore.  It just worries me that this the kind of problem that the design team is worrying about.

    Edit: I just want to emphasize that I understand why you don't want people to engage in seriously distorting behaviours like making 500k currants off of cheese.  I think rebalancing the *value* of activities is good.  I think putting caps on things is bad.  When the value changes, casual players who were not previously concerned about leaderboards and racing up levels don't even notice and it doesn't put any special emphasis on them.
    Posted 14 months ago by Humbabella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The only limits I don't agree with are:

    - donating to shrines
    - collecting coins

    If I want to spend days upon days mining rocks only to donate them all to a shrine at once, let me do it. What harm does it cause if I gain a couple of Emblems after several days worth of hard work?

    If I want to spend 3 hours jumping around and collecting Mood, Energy, and XP coins, let me do it. They re-spawn quickly enough as to not grief others, so why not let me play the game like I want to play it?
    Posted 14 months ago by Bashere Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been playing since mid-January 2011 and as time went by and I had done all the skills and all the quests, I got very bored and in the last 2 -3 months of beta I maybe spent an hour per test in the game. I'm glad that things are more difficult. Before the Icon thing started I was already getting a little bored again. I had done all my quests and had to wait days for skills. The collecting 11 of each emblem is challenging and I'm playing a lot more again :)
    Posted 14 months ago by PittyPat is sad Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I hereby award stoot the "Master Juggler" badge!
    Posted 14 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's a difference between limiting something and flat out stomping the hell out of it!

    Apparently, when you get close enough to leveling up, you get hit with the notice (after you've wasted all the time, energy, mood and products that it takes to make whatever) that you get absolutely no XP for it!  Doesn't matter if you'd made any of that particular thing within that game day period or even a few rl days before then!!

    Part of the fun is getting rewarded for doing things (and yes, part of the fun of any game for me, is leveling up). I don't really care if I level up extremely fast, but to be denied rewards because I'm within a certain number of leveling up? Really!?! 
    Posted 14 months ago by sgjo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wrote about this when they first put in the cooking caps, and will just link it here to save myself writing it again, plus it had a few replies you may want to read.

    www.glitch.com/forum/genera...

    I just want to say to Sthenno how well you put to words the feeling these caps inspire: frustration.
    Posted 14 months ago by XD Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "That lowers your mood, which in turn lowers the amount of XP you get for an action.  So you can make a lot more flour per day because you don't run into the XP cap as fast. "

    Uh, no.
    I was done with my tasks earlier in the day and decided to make some food for my last little bit of XP before my next level-up.
    I bought my standard 300 rice. (100 proper rice is an estimate of the XP cap, though it seems different every time I do it)
    I made a full 80 before I realized I had no mood, and thus, got no XP.
    I bought an extra 300 rice, drank a few hundred milks, and made 40 more proper rice.
    "Ooops! You've reached your daily XP limit for this recipe!"

    I got less than half of the xp I had consistently been able to get. It isn't a solid XP cap it seems, more like a This Many Actions cap.
    Posted 14 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for the feedback! While we still think it's a good mechanic to limit XP gained from each recipe per game day (you can only learn so much from doing the same thing afterall), but looking at it more closely, we probably set the limit a bit too low. We will be raising it once we've done a bit more math.

    BUT ALSO: we have also found a bug, which many cases sets the XP limit even lower than was intended by design. For this we apologize, and it will get fixed as soon as possible!
    Posted 14 months ago by Mart Lume Subscriber! | Permalink