Topic

Latest Impressions - after several months of testing (a very, very long post I expect no one to read)

So I went camping, which left me a lot of time to think... and Glitch has been on my mind a lot. Not because of the joy or because of addiction/compulsion, but because of the growing disquiet both within the community and the game. It's a source of *stress*, and thereby becomes a rock my mind tries to grind into the red, blue, green, and shiny elements. I know other testers have echoed a similar cloud hovering, and rather than detract from or complicate their views, I'm posting my own.

Starting with the Shiny: Glitch is a lovely world. It's complex and detailed, the humor ranges from whimsical to cerebral, the artwork generally blows me away (I'm still impressed by Groddle, though less thrilled with Jeth and Phools). The Tiny Speck staff is outrageously dedicated to their craft, as a result their passion and love for their work is infectious. The format is what my gamer-geek-soul has been screaming for since in-the-box took over PC games, 3D-resource-heavy graphics took over MMOs, d20 took over RPGs, and deep canvas took over my side-scrolling games. Call me old-school, but those formats had a serious charm and I really feel like much of the gaming world has become a mindless-push-button-win. Old school or not, there are still text-based-pay-to-play MUDs that have been running for 10+ years... and I believe Glitch has the sticking power to last at least that long. Why is a whole different topic, but the end result = Shiny!

The Green: By that I mean $.... The game play at the higher levels is almost entirely self-directed. I'm pretty good at entertaining myself within Glitch without quests, and I'm usually among the first to offer up ideas when others say they are bored. I understand the 'casual sandbox' argument as well, and not everyone will be able to play hours and hours (and not everyone will want to). The a-la-carte credit purchasing is on par with the rest of the Casual Game industry, less right now since we have incentive discounts. 

Glitch subscription pricing is actually on the low end of MMO industry standards. Most pay-to-play games range $8-20 a month, I've even seen 'diamond' options that give access to additional seperate 'high payer' or 'player-versus-player violence' versions of the world in some longer running MMOs at ~$100 a month (and people will pay it, if the world is detailed and entertaining enough)... so I think Tiny Speck actually has some room to play with that down the road if they felt it was needed. That said... pay-to-play at $15 a month generally confers unlimited play. That means people will be expecting to be able to play for hours, and weeks, and months on end... and the game still be engaging at the end of it. They don't expect to be paying for access to a space where (after a few months) their only objective is to find ways of entertaining themselves. 

Unlimited play is not something Glitch can currently offer - not just because it's closed 1/2 the time... but because it is in beta and unfinished. It will never technically be 'finished', that's not the nature of a good MMORPG, but there will be a place of finished-enough-to-launch. Even at launch, the best we can expect is the potential for unlimited play down the road... but that is true of any new game and world. In any long running MMO there will always be periods where a collective of players are waiting for the next release, next upgrade, next expansion pack. Part of the advantage of the approach TS took technology-wise enables them to stay ahead of that, and indeed I believe it was part of the intent when selecting the live-update/push capabilities. The trick is staying ahead of 5% becoming a frustrated 15%. TS has the potential to do that, and part of the beta process is finding out where the balance is.

The Blue: The player end of world building is wonky, and feels like it is getting more-so over time. Even with changing the requirements and skill types - a moving target type of balancing I'm sure requires a human level of thought and input, which means a human labor resource requirement on a permanent basis at TS... but still the world building experience, which should be a big draw, falls flat.

In the big-big picture, it does seem like the changes over the 6 month view have served to erode the experience. The Street Projects were actually the single thing that made me log in a second time. I got the concept/look/feel/tech curiosity out of the way in a matter of hours... but it was the input into the world (and potential for creative input) that made me take a second look. When I arrived, I thought we would be able to eventually initiate projects as players then wait to see what the artists and developers cooked up... as in 'we'd like a new street here please, and see! we've done the first half of the work'. As time has gone by, it doesn't appear we'll have that level of input. 

I dreamed one day we'd be able to write out an idea - find out if it could work, flesh out the mechanics, wait for the developers to set it up, then do the work in the world to implement/make it happen. I hoped that one day we'd be able to 'create our own recipes' (Lemburger with cheese, onion, pickles, mayo and tomato anyone? Light-weight pick built of better materials by the players?) and have them mean something in the world, as in higher energy from the food or a slight time/wear/yield trade off for the pick. 

Now I am getting more the impression we'll perpetually run off of an art-dump-player-interact-to-implement system fueled by a vote for priority. Other than the 'vote for priority', it's not terribly different from the Ville Games as far as deployment goes. It makes me sad, in my heart I know Glitch has the potential to be so much more than it currently appears to be. On a wider level, I think it is that sort of hope/potential the longer term players are actually grieving over.

The Red: This is where I point out some areas where things can be improved. Don't mistake me as angry, upset, or trying to insult the game, the players, or the staff. I'm trying to provide some honest feedback here.

I find the level of communication from TS a little hit and miss. I'm all for mystery deployments in the context of the game play, but I'm whole heartedly against mystery changes in the context of real-world items such as subscriptions. TS has been making a conscious effort to be better about it since subscriptions were rolled out, but Billing needs it's own FAQ page and details about subscriptions (and the projected direction of subscriptions after launch - if/when possible) need spelled out in everyday language. Not to be a nag about things, but I'd also really like a printable version of the TOS I'm singing up to - before I sign on the dotted line. These are basics every person should have easy access to, which we presently have to work to uncover.

Also, I think the Forums themselves are in serious need of a staff member. I know how long these posts take me to write/read... and many of the staff announcements/responses are just as detailed and take just as much time to create, not to mention the time spent checking the threads for questions, or things that need addressed. It has to eat into valuable programming, coding, designing, artwork resources. The arguments on the Forums can often be put to rest with a simple explanation about the current status and TS perspective of things, *before* the topic becomes a festering environment of frustrated. A bit of a PR function to the existing player community (rather than the rest of the world) would be Awesome, especially when it comes to announcing big mechanics changes like Mining or Teleport.... TS members are handling much of that individually, but it seems like there's at least enough time involved to justify a partially dedicated intern.

My biggest let down so far - the game play over time is exceedingly thin. Player culture supplements some of it, but the truth is the game is very boring after months of playing. The acknowledgement by stoot elsewhere is probably the most comforting thing I've heard in a long time. To me, it means they are looking at the bigger balance and the Giants are already imagining. It means *eventually* it will be a joy to play and entertaining after 6 months, 18 months... and we won't be wandering off to find a new source of amusement.

Many MMO's use items and skills and professions and areas and guilds that can only be activated or used or joined at higher levels, even casual games utilize the practice of requiring a certain number of friends, play time, or levels. Skill wise, Glitch is time-based not play-based... so essentially after the 2.5 months of skill learning (presently) the game is over for you as far as game-directed-activities. There is a cap to achievements and places visited, leaving 'grinding' for either higher levels or cash. 

Every time attaching a level requirement to something is mentioned there's a chorus of 'no fair' and I myself am guilty of crying foul when such an attachment doesn't immediately make sense, but it *is* one of the missing complexity layers to Glitch. Without some sort of incentive, there is no point to gaining higher levels in Glitch and no point in sticking around once the fascination wears off.... unless you feel obligated to a year subscription (TS has a very generous return policy). 

Perhaps linking Level to the max # of skills one can learn would do it (as modified by Better Learning). Before you pelt me with rotten tomatoes, think about that idea again. The Level 10 player would have the 20 free skills + potentially 17 more through Better Learning + 10 for the levels = 47 skills... functional, but you would been to get to Level 54 to finish the skill table (if Unlearn and BA3 were available and BL was learned early - Level 59 if Better Learning 5 was Skill #83, and Level 86 before only BL is left). That's actually right around when many of the long-hour players are finishing things... mostly through a judicious use of down/closed time. It also means the people who start a skill then log out for a week (when the world is live) can't finish the skill table at Level 5 (possible if you can get your hands on the emblems). It has the extra bonus effect of scaling the quest and learning/absorption pacing to match the player-to-world interaction.

Last... more player control over the User Interface, mainly on the protection side. I'd like more than just a block. I'd like a tailorable content filter... I don't need someone deciding what I decide is offensive. Often what is offensive is not the words themselves but the way they are put together - so a report abuse feature would be nice. I'd like sorting sorting/grouping options for my friends, so I have some level of control over where my updates are going. I'd like to be able to easily mute and unmute someone in chat, some people aren't all bad - just having a bad moment and I temporarily want them to be quiet. These aren't horribly difficult features, are really common in various chat/messaging programs, and have a profound effect on the player enjoyment factor.... so while the list of priorities may be long on the development side, making the (now paying) players more comfortable should be sliding up the urgency list.

If you've managed to get this far, you deserve a cookie! Thanks for the patience :D I know the last bit sounds like a laundry list of complaints, and in a way it is. I hope it's interpreted as I intended, an impression of some of the strengths and areas for improvement.

Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Make mine a Mint Milano, please!

    Travinara you bring up good points, and although I've only been in Beta for just over a month, I recently found myself wondering some of the things you've brought up, especially concerning the higher levels, the viability of game play and these Forums which are woefully inadequate and the hit-or miss TS communication to us.  vBulletin please, please!

    But I'll for now sit back and read other replies, and thank you for  your thoughtful message!

    Best,
    MM
    Posted 18 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some of these issues have been quickly addressed by stoot in this thread.
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Read it... followed it while I was writing mine. Was grabbing the links when you posted Bacon-o :D
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • this is great, you are bringing up the points that people never think about, HEY STAFF, GET OVER HERE!
    and I do agree with the skills very much, at a point, there is no point in playing the game...
    thank you very much for writing this!!
    Posted 18 months ago by feifei Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Double-stuff Oreo or Coconut Chocolate chip if you've got it.Trav, your thoughts are always valued and provocative to me. I have nothing further to add.
    Posted 18 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh Trav - I'd like to give you a cookie, as your brain grinder seems to have worked faster than mine, and I echo many of your statements! 
    A lot of my concerns were mollified by what Stoot said, and knowing they have a plan for later stages. It makes sense that what we're playing in beta is only the first stages of the game

    Remember when there were still new streets being added to the meadow and we got to vote on what kind of a street it was going to be? Or maybe it was what kind of vendor - but regardless - that was really cool and I'm bummed that voting didn't stick around, as it gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling, even if I couldn't be one of the top contributors to the street. 

    I'd love a report abuse feature too  - that might be one way we can keep our global chat working, and not being over run by folks advertising their auctions or being jerks. I've noticed that as there are more players in the world, some of the neighborliness has gone away, and maybe that's inevitable, but I'd love for our social interactions to continue to follow the tone of the world that's been created. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Wren Bramble Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well-written and thought out, very interesting. I think the "make the paying players comfy" features with mute/report/block, grouping, etc. are things I'd like to see very much, too.
    Posted 18 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I do remember the voting on street projects, and I was sad to see it go. We never did get an official explanation as to why, but I suspect it was making the world a little too competitive. I had something more about it written, but took it out because it was already a very, very long post and the project-voting ideas were not important to what I was trying to communicate.

    Personally - I'd be more than happy to wait 3-5 days as a cool-down before a new street opens or the effects show up. I imagine that's about the longest it would take for the artists to add the cosmetic changes if the project finished on the weekend... provided they didn't want to pre-gen the art and then fine-tune it with successive projects.

    It really could add an amusing level (and potentially frustrating one for people in project-zombie mode) as the project finishes and people have to scramble to figure out where the next one is... since it wouldn't be attached to the one you just finished. If we had to wait a substantial amount of time, like we do for the game to open currently, the delayed gratification effect will still have a home in the game... especially if we don't know when the update will be pushed.

    One of the coolest things in the early days was that we would have the ability to change the look of streets... and I thought the next 'down the road' step was to allow us to eventually communally decide on removing or changing said features. I really thought we'd be able to change a hardware vendor to a kitchen tools vendor, or take out flowers in favor of mushrooms (or nothing) in repeatable street projects.... and the secondary projects would be pushed out if we'd accidentally over-saturated an area.

    For a while there, I was actually able to convince myself that they'd taken it out because they'd worked the bugs out... but would bring it back later, because many of the backgrounds and streets are not nearly as rich as the old streets. They are bland, almost template art without the level of interesting in the Groddle-Alpha days.

    I'd even prefer the voting ability over the xp/cash/energy rewards. To me it's far more endearing to be able to say 'I helped create that' even it it was only a .03% vote for floating jump islands instead of trees on the street. Not saying every street project should be set up for voting, but I really think that was the coolest feature of the game... then it went away.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am a recent player, so I know I don't have the perspective that you all do. But I do love the game and so I hope you'll find this input meaningful.

    What draws me to Glitch is the artwork, humor, and what I perceive to be the ambition of TS to create a world filled with creativity and fun.

    So far, my experience with the game is that I've done a lot of quests, and many of the quests are about producing something from something else or performing a certain number of actions in a certain amount of time. If you take away the artwork, "Create and drink 5 Creamy Martinis" feels like exactly the same quest as "Create these two powders", except that all the nouns and adjectives are different.

    I would love it if performing the quests took more brainpower instead of rote grinding. For example, you could imagine quests that felt more like puzzles ("get to the top of mount slurp using a propeller beanie, 3 eggs, and a time changer"). You could also imagine quests that relied on teams needing to think strategically, or individuals needing to be creative.

    And speaking of players being creative, I'd like to bring up some of the higher aspirations I have for the game.

    1) I would love for the game to be more about players creating things in the world. For example, I brought this up in a previous thread where I wished that players could concoct their own dishes (and I see that Travinara brought up the same point above, so I'm sure it's an old idea). But if the TS team were to figure out how to balance playability, control of artwork, etc., with the idea of allowing players to create pieces of the world, then that (and not prescripted play) would become the purpose of play for higher level players.

    Just to deep end on the recipe idea for a sec... I could imagine that a pool of generic-ish artwork could suffice for most food. Brown lumpy stuff in a bowl, for example. And I could imagine a process where players could experiment with different concoctions with somewhat random results ("Ew.. That didn't end up tasting very good.") Occasionally, you could discover a combination that was exceptionally tasty (possibly w/ an energy bonus or other random buffs) and you could name the dish. You could then make the dish for other people, or trade recipes with each other.

    I could also imagine a world in which players could create their own streets using pieces of art created by TS staff. Perhaps this is how "projects" work -- I haven't participated in one yet -- but I get the sense that they are not outlets of individual creativity in the same way that, say, LittleBigPlanet allows.

    2) The backstory. I love the semi-mystical nature of the backstory. But in the end, I find it doesn't tie into gameplay as much as I would like. Sure, it explains why I need to get favor with giant X in order to learn skill Y, but I would love it if the fact that the world is being imagined by the giants actually affected the gameplay.

    For example -- and this is all crazy talk, so don't take these as specific suggestions -- you could imagine that a global event could happen, like a specific giant could get sick, and various things in the world wouldn't work properly until the giant could be made well. Or you could imagine that the rules of the world kept changing in dream-like ways. For example, maybe you leave the game for a few weeks and come back to find that the pigs have all turned into pink mice.

    Anyway, those are not serious, specific suggestions. I'm mostly just grasping for examples to illustrate the point that I'd love for the TS team to have the backstory affect the gameplay. This is not an ordinary world with ordinary rules. This is not The Sims. This is an unusual world which is being imagined by a bunch of giants and threatened by the rook. How would such a world be different than ours, other than the fact that all the items have whimsical names and art? Could this world be an ever-evolving, changing, mysterious place?
    Posted 18 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I read it through to the end, so I'll take a chocolate chip cookie, please :D 

    I have participated in projects, and generally will stop and see if whatever I happen to be carrying on me is needed, but I stopped actively trying to participate in them because I tired of just dumping energy into another cookie-cutter street. Especially the swampy streets, which are so dark and dismal that I avoid going there anyway. At least Alakol is brighter. I wish I had been around in the days when the Meadows was being fleshed out, to decide on mushrooms or roses. Those streets actually have personality to them. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Essie Kitten Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I must admit the only area i really enjoyed opening was Alakol,as it was different.So i can see your point Trav about helping design the streets,as Bertola to me at the moment,looks a cross between the forest and heights.
    I personally would like to see an expansion,or area,based on the wintry place,a cold zone,with igloos,but obviously not something that zaps your energy.Meet some polar bears and fish there :)
    Posted 18 months ago by Joos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wonder if the removal of the voting on a street was because they wanted to build the mechanics of the system but to allow it on a constant basis at this stage requires more input from artists/devs/whoever that wasn't a priority right now?   Something like that  - priorities, resources.

    Or did they say that it's gone and gone forever?
    Posted 18 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think they have said either way.
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I read somewhere that voting on street vendors caused a lot of vendors of the same type to be clustered on adjacent streets, which frustrated gameplay (and players).  Not to say that community input can't be implemented in a different way or on different objects or design, but I can see the headaches of trying to balance design/input at the early stages of the game might have been pushed to a lower priority given the pressures of getting other elements finished and getting out of beta.

    Make mine a thin mint, please.  ;-)
    Posted 18 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A wa-fer thin mint?
    Posted 18 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is only wa-fer thin, sir.
    Posted 18 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm in the mood for a frosted sugar cookie. 

    I concur. And I haven't been with the testing for long...maybe a tad over a month. I just try to find new things to entertain myself...like teasing a friend with poo and a flaming drink (it looks like poo on fire) and setting it on her doorstep. :P
    With the new subscriptions you get a certain amount of votes...what the votes are for, I do not know. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Sunny Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's hoping I don't go kablooey!
    Posted 18 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you Trav. So nicely stated too.
    I have only been here a few months and I find myself getting bored.
    So, I started to make my own games up - How many trees can I climb before hitting the max quoins? How many red quoins can I find before reaching my daily limit? Is mining and donating the only way to advance the levels? (Well, that's boring.) And, I really am not interested in the auctions, either selling or buying. Then there was the skill learning - 24 hrs for this, 12 hrs for that, 8 days for this. I thought why should I bother? What good does making blocks do me? I got elements that I don't know what to do with and even the giants don't really want them. So what if I have 15 recipes for food and 20 for drinks, then have to spend hours making the food so I can retain energy or mood. Then there are the projects. I only know about the projects when I just happen upon them. And of course, the items needed are mostly for higher skill level players who have more learning skills than I do. Another 'why bother?' situation.
    I started to leave the game to tend to RL. I noticed it is happening more and more, and I'm afraid the trend is going to continue. I do play in order to climb a tree or a vine (I really do like doing that) and get my daily quoins (I might get one of the new mansions someday). Although I really like the game, it offers no variety in its present form and it is becoming boring.
    Posted 18 months ago by Ruby Specklebottom Subscriber! | Permalink