Topic

Glitch: Too estrogen driven to attract male players?

So, I'm a 35 year old guy with a wife and kids who was invited to play this game several weeks ago by someone at Tiny Speck. I immediately found the game to be fun enough to play as a casual experience, but I honestly have been losing interest as quickly as I progress due to the feeling that it has little or no appeal for males to play.

Glitch has a lot of potential for many kinds of people, but I honestly feel it is focusing in on the 10 to 30-something female, thus limiting its appear to the other gender ENTIRELY. If I hung my masculinity on the wall and just played Glitch, I could easily spend hours of having endless fun with this game, but I am all too often reminded of how this game is NOT geared for men. Whats more, even my wife laughed when she saw me playing this during the EOTW party, asking if I was going homo on her.

So, while I could cite several examples of how this game personally makes me unattracted to it, I'll just offer the following obvious examples as seen while visiting the site:

1) Pastels, everywhere!
Is this really necessary right down to character customization? I mean come on, this is fine in San Francisco and NYC, but as stated before: No appeal for the manly figure.

Perhaps a customizable skin chooser for the game's frame, a set of "REI-like" clothing choices and less effeminate choices would help. The awards are atrociously gag-worthy... pink buttons for planting beans or cooking... lovely: beta.glitch.com/achievements/

2) Subscribers are designated as pink hearts.
Most men (who prefer women) would not be comfortable with this and I doubt that they would buy a membership strictly because of it.

Almost anything at this point would be preferable, seriously. You can go to the grocery store and watch many men pass up on purchasing products that offer immediate donations to breast cancer. It has nothing with support the cause and everything to do with the fact that it's a pink ribbon.

3) Characters, while cartoony, lack any wardrobe or vanity customizations that would be considered masculine in ANY way.
From feathers to MORE pastels to kilts and pumps, I see nothing here created by a straight male.

Simply have a man make some shirts with sports, trucks or booze on them... add basic sneekers and steal toe boots... might help just a *wee-bit*.
 
Bash me if you will, but I am not trying to say the game sucks as much as I am trying to offer constructive criticism as to why this game will lack male players, especially ones whom have insecurities about maintaining their masculinity (which is a majority of men). If you note, I am also trying to offer suggestions to make it more appealing to the potential male players out there.

Posted 17 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Yay! I have a bizarro post! :) Actually the post was based on some things we have in common with regards to certain colleges. It contained innuendo. There is a class of girls who have no real interest in academics and learning. They believe they can be successful by attracting a mate that will be able to support them. UMR is an engineering college and girls who go there for there "Mrs." degrees are looking for a husband that they think will be a successful engineer. Cheerleading and Drill teams have been abused the same way with regards to high school or college athletics.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It IS true that there are like 5 kinds of tutus and only, what? 2 colours of armour? 
    Just adding my 2c.
    Posted 17 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *puts fingers in ears and sings la la la la while giving everyone a group hug and spreading happy feelings*

    (note - it's not easy to group hug with your fingers in your ears)
    Posted 17 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Too long - did not read all, just glanced over some posts.  

    Glitch is what it is, and I for one am glad about that - not going to address some of the points I skimmed, but will just say that I hope the community and ethos of the people here continue.
    Posted 17 months ago by riscy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's just no way to milk a butterfly in dragon plate armor with an AK-47 rifle in each hand. Also, you can't jump.
    Posted 17 months ago by hollow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Laurali:  The way you were treated in chat is inexcusable and we should be (are) collectively ashamed that it happened.  You are not a typical Glitchen, and for that we should be grateful - you add to the diversity of this indy community.  I'm glad you're here and I'm glad you are open about who you are.  However, I don't think it's fair to expect that we should have the same emotional reaction to cheerleader bashing as we do to gay bashing.  Both are despicable.  Neither should happen.  But the fact is that cheerleaders and football players are not denied jobs, denied homes, denied the right to marry, spit on, beaten up and left for dead on country roads.  We immediately jump to decry gay bashing, not because it affects us personally, but rather because it is the expression of an evil that has had tragic effect on the lives of countless people.  There is a difference.
    Posted 17 months ago by Hawkwell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • GD. I'm gone for one day, and I miss out on a thread like this.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's okay Mr. D. There's still popcorn.
    Posted 17 months ago by Colette Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @KitKatCat: There are 3 different colors of suits of armor (silver, bronze, and black... it would be hard to add more that look like metal, so this may not be the best of examples). However, I see this as a wonderful opportunity--combine a suit of armor with a tutu, and you've expanded your color choices to 15 possibilities! 
    Posted 17 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @greenkozi: You bring up an extremely interesting and valid point, but I honestly don't think that is what the OP intended. He clearly stated that he thought manly men would be perfectly happy with playing this type of game if only they had a tee-shirt with beer on it and didn't have to look at pink things. That is why the majority of the posts were focusing on this aesthetic aspect.

    As for your point: It is true that girls have been traditionally steered by society from an extremely young age toward "feminine" things like cooking (toy kitchen sets), cleaning (toy vacuums), and raising babies (baby dolls), while boys have been steered toward "masculine" things like construction (toy tool kits), cars, and war (toy soldiers, guns). Of course, the color scheme is already decided for each gender from the moment they're born: girls get pink, boys get blue. Beyond these societal marketing schemes, however, individuals are free to do what they want, and many (most??) people have broken away from these norms in recent years. My 3 year old is free to play with whatever interests her. She has My Little Ponies and Barbie Dolls, and Pokemon and Transformers, and loves them all.... she loves zombies too, but that's just our family being weird. 

    There are many respected top chefs who are male (cooking isn't just for women!), and male psychologists and well-fare workers (kindness and nurturing others isn't just for women!). There are also well respected scientists and engineers who are female (thinking and building isn't just for men!). There are plenty of female soldiers too who love their jobs. Sure, this irritates the most hard-core stereotype lovers, but the majority of society is OK with this. Times are changing.
    Posted 17 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not gonna say anything re: OP. But just to say...competition def. not only for dudes, LOL. All three leaderboards are headed by women right now ;) (For example...nvm)

    Oh but the one thing that also cracked me up re: the game being all not manly: Um, good grief, the humor is full of the kind of jokes that guys tend to like to make: the wood tree saying "I've totally lost wood" when you chop it, the blue penis mushrooms in Groddle. Stuff like that:) (Notice I did say "tend" because...well, I make those jokes sometimes and find them funny, too.) Like um, LOL, did you see this thread with Kukubee's response? Penis sighting Hehehe, just sayin'! (My husband plays Glitch also FWIW and loves it. And he's not what society would consider a girly guy.)
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @larky and hawk, I think you are missing my point. I only brought up that incident because it is the best example I had. But there is a great number of people I have seen who often boast about how they stand up for what's right and they want everyone to feel included. Both in this forum, out of this forum, and in the game I have seen the same people who have no concern. My example was merely to point out one instance where many people were on global chat and zero people came to my aid.

    I already apologized twice for using stri and cers names. I don't have internet and it is hard to go back and try to find certain comments.

    All I'm asking is that people get off their high horses and come back down to reality.

    That being said, I have handfuls of gay, lesbian, and transgendered friends and I have supported them through a lot. This is not even about the fight for equal rights for gays that I have been addressing. People don't take the time to have concern for others and that is why I'm upset.
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @shepherd- so glad you're raising your girl with choices beyond barbie or my little pony. in my opinion, she will have a much more nuanced view of the world, and her role in it. and you're right, i did read a "bigger" deal into the OP, partly because i think there are bigger things than color coding: this is a symptom, though a very powerful one.

    to all of the replies suggesting that individual exceptions disprove my theory, well, yeah, i'm absolutely sure that i could be wrong, but i don't think that these individual exceptions mean that i'm wrong. there are women all over the leaderboard- yes! one of the examples, that i decided not to give in my already too long post above, was hilary clinton, who has long been derided as too competitive, too cutthroat, and too MASCULINE, when really, she's just a politician. (In fact, a recent new yorker article compared her style of leadership as quite communal and (their words) female.) how many people did you hear saying "i can't vote for her, she's a bitch?"  was she anymore or less competitive, serious, or cutthroat than any of her male counterparts in politics? (i'm saying exactly nothing about her as a person or a politician, just using her as an example here.)  

    of course there are women who compete, thrive on competition, think it's normal: it IS normal. and there will be women on the glitch leaderboards, and there should be.  what i'm suggesting is that

    a) the leaderboards are deemphasized (i played for weeks before i knew where the leaderboards on the projects were, and notice that they're at the VERY bottom of the main page) which suggests that they are not the focus. this is not a game that thrives on competition. intentionally or not, glitch is not about winning or losing, and traditionally, and yes, i think currently, this is something that is promoted as a woman's world. 

    b) competition here is also not frowned on: glitch can be played communally OR competetively.  this is the subversive part i was talking about before. you can take your androgynous, cross-dressed avatar, and, without toting a weapon (and i'm sorry, but weapon games are absolutely marketed to men, no matter how many women you know playing them), compete to your hearts' content.  whether this is TS's intent or not, it's fabulous. it's for a generation of kids raised by ShepherdMoon and a generation of NPR listening, liberal-arts educated assholes like me, spouting words like "trope," "heteronormative" and "subversive" before 9am :)
    Posted 17 months ago by greenkozi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let me clearly state what I'm trying to say so that people will not misunderstand.

    The OP mentioned that he wanted a game that conformed more to society standards of what men like, because he himself prefers things (colors, clothing, etc) that he considers manly. Then people began arguing that his ideas of manly were wrong.

    I am not here to debate what is manly, what is womanly, what is gay, or what is straight. I just wanted to point out the OVERWHELMING respond to this gentleman was, "if you don't like it find a more manly game to play." However, in the past, if this argument has been used it's been ripped apart within seconds.

    It seems like when someone wants to make a change that would benefit them as long as it's not too close to mainstream culture then its okay, otherwise you should move on to a new game, or be poked fun at.

    Many of the comments from this forum and from the game left me very disappointed in the Glitch community, which I expected to be much more open and welcoming (as those same words have been used many times to describe the community) then what really seems to be the case.
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let's give it a rest and end this thread.....you can't beat a dead horse. Enough is enough.
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The reason I was angry and dismissed what the OP had to say was because he was using phrases and words like "going homo" and "gay" implying that these were bad things.

    I teach middle school. I hear my students saying things like this ALL the time.  "OMG, Mrs A. don't assign lab reports AGAIN, those are so gay."  or "I hate that kid, the way he talks is so homo." 

    I equate using "gay" in that fashion with using racial slurs.  Same sort of insult.  And it's completely unacceptable.  I never let it fly in my classroom, or from my friends, or even from random strangers on the internet.

    It's wrong.  There shouldn't have been 2 pages of discussion on it.  Using phrases like that is flat out offensive. End of discussion.  
    Posted 17 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • + 1 Thank you, Beth! You wrote the words right outa my mouth.

    Devs---please lock this thread. Its run its course.
    Posted 17 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So, because I can't be online and reply instantly I don't get to post on the thread?
    Posted 17 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Feylin---I posted after Beth's post. Your's wasn't up at the time, but it landed after yours for some reason. I am sorry. My exasperation was by no means directed at your comments at all, which I agree with 100% btw. It was due to another poster.
    Posted 17 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tiny Speck company policy is to lock threads under very strict conditions. Those conditions do not apply to this thread.  When people get tired of this topic  they will stop posting and newer topics willl push it off the front page of forum topics. It will kill itself by simple inertia. But right now it's serving as a release for people to talk about things that are bothering them. For a community to thrive knowing when its members have been hurt, or are hurting is vital. I'm hoping the OP is still on board too and hasn't been chased off.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Obviously, many of us are interested in gender issues, so I don't see a reason to stop the discussion.  If you don't want to read more of it, you certainly don't have to; personally, I find many threads here boring, inappropriate, unpleasant, etc., so I just don't bother with them.

    Yes, society reinforces all sorts of gender-based stereotypes, but many have a basis in biology.  Other animals assume gender roles instinctively, not due to peer pressure or a desire for political correctness.  Humans aren't always as unique as some of us would like to think we are.  :)  Of course, this doesn't mean that men automatically prefer blue to pink, or any of the other nonsense we've been presented with here. 

    I wonder if this is an elephant in the room, since no one's mentioned it so far (and if you have, and I've missed your post, my apologies): in his first line, the OP says he "was invited to play this game several weeks ago by someone at Tiny Speck."  Is it troublesome that someone at TS would invite a seemingly boorish man to play Glitch?  For me, it's not an issue -- I expect all sorts of people to play this game, each in his or her own way -- but a lot has been made of the appearance of an "offensive" person, and perhaps it's more egregious because he didn't just wander in on his own. 
    Posted 17 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To me, who the OP is or how he got here is insignificant compared to his actions when he posted.

    The issues of gender in society are fascinating, true, but holy hell- does the post not give you the simple reaction of "HEY! WRONG! Civil adult people do not use those words and this community doesn't allow that sort of hateful nonsense."

    I haven't been around Glitch much, but the impression I got was not that this was a community who would let hateful slurs go unmentioned so as to get on  with discussing the OP's motivations specifically and society generally.

    I'm boggled by this thread.
    Posted 17 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This thread has significantly changed its tone and function since the original posting. I know there is a persistent problem of "tl;dr" with new posters. This has led to overdrawn conclusions as to the current state of affairs by the same. There are still people replying to the OP who came into the matter much later. The issue of name calling and slurs has been addressed - repeatedly. If you have not read this thread completely please do not be calling for its closure. What you are asking for is censorship within the accepted meaning of that word. If you find the content here unpleasant - don't read, don't respond. And don't be so arrogant and self-important that you would take this forum from those who find it an important and valuable place to discuss civilly (usually) matters that are of concern to them.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "a lot has been made of the appearance of an "offensive" person, and perhaps it's more egregious because he didn't just wander in on his own."

    This has all the earmarks of a vengeance plot years in the making by a very brilliant, very patient TS staffer.  A cold taco of revenge, payback for other ham-handed, insensitive remarks made by the OP who knows how long ago. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think there was any vindictive purpose here with regards to this individual.  Such conduct would be unprofessional by any staff member and would substantially undermine the longevity of the game product. The OP was a valuable and experienced member of the game development community and his opinions (even if sometimes badly worded) are valuable and needed. @stoot has said as much. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fokian Fool were you addressing your comment at what I posted?
    Posted 17 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Naw Feylin, I think it was for me.

    Thanks for the adjustment, FF, but I was kidding!  
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nanookie, my big tip to the part where it was meant to be funny was "a cold taco of revenge". lol!

    I was asking about his post above you.  I really can't tell who's talking to which person on this forum.
    Posted 17 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been a member or mod at so many different boards that they all just seem to blur together anymore. I reckon most of you know how this is.

    One thing stands out to me. Did you notice?

    In an inordinate amount of them OP wouldn't have been taken to task for his generalizations, idiomatic expressions, or unfortunate choice of descriptors. We see pejoratives liberally sprinkled throughout posts on an everyday basis elsewhere. If one is moved to point out that they are offended, they are subject to the usual slew of "u mad bro's" and other hateful memes.

    I can't think of a single friend or member of my worship family whom I would typify as a bully. I can't relate to those who choose to engage in online bullying either. I know why it happens; the arrested development issues, the egocentric psuedo-self , failed familial relations. I'm not hating though because we all fall short of the glory, amen. Just  pointing out that I understand.

    I dropped out of school when my first son was born. I was sixteen at the time. That said, it wasn't the end of my education. Though I wasn't taking part in any kind of formalized learning I continued to better myself. We have enormous resources at our disposal. You have an obligation to yourself to make use of them. What am I saying? That we are born ignorant but we don't have to stay that way.

    I applaud the members of this community for their sense of what is right and what is wrong. For their integrity. For their recognition of the damage that hateful labels and nomenclatura inflict. You carry that around with you as readily as any outwardly observable scar.

    OP was called out. Like I have intimated earlier, you wouldn't see that in most of the places I have frequented in the past. It (the slurs) would have been accepted and comments would have ensued most probably with the same language. Or worse. Or much worse.

    I don't even bother with them anymore. Haven't for a long time. Bad company corrupts good character, as they say. If you see something wrong and do nothing about it, you will be seen as accepting that wrong. If you have the chance to do good but choose not to, that is the same as doing evil.

    You can view the continuance of this thread as overdone/beating a dead horse/whatever. I choose to think of it as individuals wanting to show that they aren't complacent, are willing to stick their necks out for what they believe is right, and are showing that they aren't afraid to stand up for the abolition of inappropriate behaviour.

    We could go round-n-round with censorship arguments here. Quite frankly I'm surprised this hasn't happened to greater extent at this point. That would be a can of worms that perhaps shouldn't be opened. It would be hard to read through the ad hominem attacks on members just stating an opinion on censorship while not embracing OP's language. Could we even do this at this point? Differentiate?
    Posted 17 months ago by malo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would like to voice a complaint:

    malo is much, much too good at being the voice of reason. he's making me insecure about  my own calmitude and reasonableness.
    Posted 17 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If a reader recognizes any of my comments applying to their posting then there is a good chance I may have been responding to it. I rarely make statements ex nihil. But I'm taking great pains to make sure that I do not refer to a specific person when making critical statements. In my most recent postings I responded to a pattern by several posters (some more than others). I did make some conclusions with regard to "tl;dr" type posters, but I didn't not assume that was the case with all the postings I was responding to. I did characterize the postings and I did so harshly. But I did not characterize the poster. I'm quite familiar with the causes of negative, lose-lose, communication.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @malo - thanks again for your well spoken, from the heart, responses. My more recent posting have been pretty dry and technical. Yet more +1s to you. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fokian, I was asking because I honestly wasn't sure and didn't think I should just assume.  I wasn't upset by your post, but I was going to reply if you were talking to me. It would be rude to ignore someone on a forum.

    As for not reading the thread....it made for an interesting hour.  I posted what I did because I noticed that folks overall seemed more interested in discussing society instead of flat calling out bad behavior.  

    Not bothering with people who throw slurs around casually in their speech, as Malos suggests, is simply not something I do.  
    Posted 17 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Feylin - I did respond to you in part, but there was another poster I was responding to as well. And it really isn't rude to ignore someone in a forum unless a posting is specifically directed at you. There are a lot of posters and postings and a person only has so much time in a day. Your level of participation is whatever you feel comfortable with and nothing is obligatory (unless you are a moderator).
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let me get one thing straight though:

    (quoting a guildie from the guildforum in a discussion about the colour of babyrooms:)
    The funny thing is, that (at least in germany, but i think it was all over europe) blue was the color for girls and "rose" not the strong pink we see nowadays was a classic color for boys around the year 1900. the color scheme just changed later. So maybe it will change again sometime and boys will be pink and girls will be dark blue.
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You're apologizing for using names to call people out, Laurali, but that's the only appropriate way to do it. You can't call out the entire Glitch community because of one incident. Very few people, relatively, were there to do anything about it. Only those who were present are responsible for their inaction, no one else, and not the community at large. Using it as a way to denounce anything anyone else says or feels in a Glitch-related setting is wrong.

    Also, even if a specific person was there and did nothing, claiming they have lost the right to criticize as a result is ad hominem and fallacious as well. They can have been wrong in approaching your situation, and right in their approach to this one. If you want to keep addressing the bullying you received, I think a new thread is appropriate.
    Posted 17 months ago by hollow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • wow, what a thread... i haven't read it in its entierety, but would like to address its inception.

    i will say this:
    op makes one valid point at the end of his post - a surprising number of men in the world seem to have only the most tenuous grasp on their sense of masculinity (as evidenced by the shamefully persistent prevalence of joking-but-not-really jokes about 'going homo' and the like), and if we're aiming for broad appeal across both genders for this game, then it might be prudent to make some modicum of effort to accommodate those insecurities (i mean, geez, look at the amount of advertising out there these days for products like "men's body wash," as if gender-specifying shower gel by any other name is the only way to get men comfortable about buying it). at the heart of the post, inappropriate speech aside, the message seemed to be "i enjoy playing this game, but i don't know if i can square that enjoyment with my preconceived notions about what it's appropriate for men to enjoy, so i might rather abadon the game than abandon those preconceived notions."

    i will also say this:
    i am a man. a big, tall, bearded one who has done more than my share of manly things like playing sports, hauling lumber, fixing various devices and contraptions, and speaking in a deep, rich baritone indicative of a certain amount of testosterone... and i have never once gotten even the most fleeting impression that glitch was somehow mounting any kind of insidious covert assault on my manhood. that said, i've met my share of 'men' who do indeed harbor these sorts of deep-seated irrational fears. while these types of people might generally tend to shy away from a game like this anyways based solely on the lack of swords and bountifully-bosomed damsels in distress, it couldn't hurt to throw in some work boots and flannel shirts to go with the hard hats that we already have if that might entice them to stay a while and find out what this game is all about.

    in the end, i suspect their subscription money would be just as good as anyone else's, if they could somehow find a way to get over the mortifying shame of having a pink heart next to their name. ;)
    Posted 17 months ago by BeatFreq Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not bothering with people who throw slurs around casually in their speech, as Malos suggests, is simply not something I do.~Feylin

    Probably just the way you worded it Feylin, but it appears to read that that you think I am saying we should ignore abusive and ignorant behaviour. That's not it at all.

    Just so we're clear here, my statement was that I don't bother with boards where that was acceptable behaviour (and implied not taken to task quickly by that boards mods). If that's how they want to be represented in the public eye, by choice I will stop posting there. Where such action is deemed acceptable and deeply entrenched I wouldn't be welcome anyways. Not at this point in my life.

    @Sheepy El oh el! If I'm going to be the voice of reason we'd better all invest in miner's helmets. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by malo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can someone please get a word count on this thread? I'm sure that it violates some global forum database standard from way to much storage space expended on something that died an eon ago (i.e. yesterday, which equates to an eon in internet time)

    Kill it. Now. Before it replicates.

    XD
    Posted 17 months ago by g33kgurrl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As long as it is contained, I don't think we have much to worry from it spreading. (famous last words).
    Posted 17 months ago by hollow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would not have subscribed had I known it would put a pink heart by my name. 

    No sarcasm.  I just don't feel the added benefits of subscription outweigh that retarded annoying heart.
    Posted 17 months ago by Btaylor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Really? "retarded"? You can think of a better way to describe it.
    Posted 17 months ago by hollow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry, I suppose retarding is better than retarded. 
    You know, since it retards my desire to post here, where I'll have to see it associated with my name.

    I suppose annoying, stupid, unimpressive, boring, unwanted, and irremovable all work.  And apparently, I already used 'annoying'.

    Stupid, retarding, annoying heart.
    Posted 17 months ago by Btaylor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • An Elephant in the room: Differences in Society

    I started off in creating this thread simply to request more neutrality or more equally weighed male to female to asexual cosmetic choices. After all, the more choice there is for such, the more individuality and self reflection and comfort one can feel from their glitch. Every rewrite I made over the weekend fell into a trap of social or personal scrutiny that I did not want to get personally tied to emotionally. It then hit me that this simple request was much larger than a personal preference, but one about society in general and so I opted to rewrite it once more through the perspective of a stereotype.

    Using the stereotype model of the average TV sitcom guy (citations 1 & 2), I brought to light the fact that while the game appears rather tame and neutral to the majority right now, as this game goes public and gains popularity, it will fall victim to the negative sides of society.  All you need do is look as some of the posts here to realize the amount of fever raised by what is rather mild in comparison to the evil side of society. I chose this particular theme because a stereotype is not a specific person or a thing, but a general and averaged type or subtype (thus removing my own emotions from the equation). It does not reflect any one person, but the average consensus of a sample group, which also allows just about any person to understand at least one of the points I made while using it. Stereotypes give both very positive AND unfortunately quite negative impacts on society as a whole (virtual or physical). As an individual, one person may make little impact on society, but a strongly willed one may be so vocal as to potentially tear a community/society apart.

    Having worked in the gaming industry, I have seen this exact problem unfold in every MMO game I have worked on, with varying degrees of course. To help remedy it, management often opts to segregate people by geographical region into different servers (IP's tell us everything) and do as the admins are doing here, remove the offending post as quickly as possible. However, it never cures the problem as it is almost impossible to police in game players 100% of the time and since society as a whole is the problem, it will persist for several hundred more years in my opinion.

    This game intrigues me for two reasons:
    1) No major studio could ever attempt such a game
    2) It relies entirely on community and well, society to function. "players must learn how to find and grow resources, identify and build community and, at the higher levels of the game, proselytize to those around them". (Citation 3)

    Since the game relies on the mechanics of society so heavily I spent many days trying to talk to people and get a feel for its player base. “Indeed, it was mixed” I pondered. Strange how the game was allowing such a broad base of society to co-existence without any strife. I had never seen such a thing! However, I was wrong. While visiting the blue "Ice land" area (was collecting snow cones for a Quest) I listened in on a quite racist confrontation over something as simple as the color of ones avatar and realized that nothing was different at all here, it was just muted by the lack of player diversity! Sure, you can say that it is a safe haven for certain groups, that its neutral pastels will turn off the most extreme cases from playing, but what about those in the middle who still give it a chance anyways? It is a good game after all... Which brings me to why I would rather “poke the Elephant in the room” now while Glitch is in Beta, giving the Devs time to adjust things accordingly, than have the Devs realize the “Elephant” has created a monster when this game goes gold and is publicized.

    I really like this game. It fresh and anew and its time we as a society at least try such an experiment in an MMO. However, I ask that AS MUCH be done to stay as neutral as possible. Simple things such as vanity and wardrobe will indeed tip the balances and in all honesty, the points I made in my OP are real issues for many people and should at least be reviewed (assuming the idea is to remain neutral).

    Some last things I wanted to say before I go to sleep in this crappy hotel bed and get stuck in endless airports for the next 3 days:

    My follow-up posts seem to have confused some people. I am not that stereotype in my OP, but can associate with some of my own statements. 

    My wife did make fowl statement that I included in my OP, which in honesty helped raise my awareness to this, but it was also in jest and between two very understanding spouses of 16 years. Who has not used a derogatory term in fun against their significant other?

    Everyone is entitled to express their own opinion, but I specifically applauded specific opinions I read NOT because I necessarily agreed with them, but because they spoke what they felt without emission of threat. A lot can be said for that. For anyone still thinking I'm a homophobe, I don't care, neither do my LGBT friends whom I dine with occasionally on Castro and Parnassus street :P

    Good night and happy glitching to all !

    References:

    1. sitcomsexism (4/25/2011). Sitcom Sexism: A Content Analysis. Retrieved from URL
    sitcomsexism.wordpress.com/...

    2. Media Awareness Network (2010). Common Stereotypes of Men in Media. Retrieved from URL  
    www.media-awareness.ca/engl...

    3. Daniel Terdiman (2/9/2010). In depth with Tiny Speck's Glitch. Retrieved from URL
    news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-...
    Posted 17 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is closer to the core issue that caused the OP; the idea that stereotypes are somehow accurate averages of vast populations of people. A stereotype is "a set of inaccurate, simplistic generalizations about a group". It's not useful to use stereotypes, and they have no positive effect on society. Using them is deleterious and lowers or kills the dialogue. Finding accurate information is much more difficult than subscribing to hurtful and dismissive notions about swatches of people based on gender, race, or whatever, which is why people use stereotypes.

    They should stop.

    The most useful form of finding accurate information about what a large group of people want is to ask each and every one of them, and compile the information for overlap. That's why feedback and forum posts (such as this one) are very helpful and encouraged. It just bears emphasizing that in this post OP does not represent the feelings and desires of anyone besides himself and possibly his wife.
    Posted 17 months ago by hollow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • c0mad0r, you should tell all your LGBT friends to get with the times - all the cool kids are QQUILTBAGGOMGWTFBBQ these days.  ;)
    Posted 17 months ago by BeatFreq Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am superman.. tantantan taratatantan.... No seriously.. I am!
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Haha beat! And I though I was ahead of the gane because I added the Q, LGBTQ
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Haha beat! And I though I was ahead of the gane because I added the Q, LGBTQ
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, I'm being told from one friend that it should be "LGBTQQ", not just "LGBTQ".
    Posted 17 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink
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