Topic

Everyone has a side.

Let me get some things clear, with all of you. I am not a whiny person. I don't get upset over small things. The incident that happened has been changed so many times by one side's of the story, that I want to clear some things up.  

I haven't been playing the last few weeks, so I came back yesterday to talk of herbs. I went to the herb gardens to see if there were any empty spots. There were none. I went to leave. I saw a person come in, and say "Gimmie all you got." Then, "HEY HOMBRE. YOU GONNNA GIMME SHIT?" I said nothing. He then proceeded to take the herbs that people were waiting by, as soon as they popped up. Jerk move, but I still said nothing. Then he said "I'mma rape you all" 

At that point, I messaged him. We are both greeters, and I didn't feel that was they type of behavior we were supposed to represent. I * politely * told him it wasn't cool for him to say that kind of thing, and that it was sort of rude to take flowers from new players that were trying to do things. He responded with "And who are you?" And started telling me that he would say whatever he liked, and I was so "low". who was I to tell him that wasn't polite? He then announced in chat "GIVE NUTMEG EVERYTHING YOU HAVE OR SHE'LL HATE YOU." 

Please note, at this point, I have not planted, nor harvested a single thing. It wasn't about the plants. I wish I had saved the log of all the rude things he IM'ed to me, but I didn't, only the local chat. I blocked him, because he continued harassing me via IM. SEVERAL other players in the same street had a problem with the things he said (and things he did, which I know isn't agains the ToS) - if they all chose to report him, I have no clue. He is blaming me because I had the "nerve" to stand up to him (me being a low life and all.) 

He says: 
*Him* in reply to *other person* "Of course I always pushed the limits, it's my way of playing and adding to the game for everyone else. Someone needs to do it, and I do it in a way where I respect everyone, while acting out a crazy character everyone loves and hates. I've never changed here. My mistake was using a one line phrase of the English language that I should not have said. One mistake that lasted 1 moment of time on one map. They could have just asked me not to say that and I would have agreed respectfully and I'd understand, but because they were mad at my herb harvesting, they would take any excuse to get me out of the game, so reported me. It's as simple as that."57 mins ago 

It is NOT as simple as that. I. Do. Not. Care. About Herbs. If he wants to be known as a jerk, that's his problem. It's when he says inappropriate things that is the issue. He has not shown any remorse. He likened my issue to someone being afraid of the color yellow in another post. After originally claiming he had been hacked. I asked him not to say it, and he belittled it, and continued harassing me via IM. 

He made his own bed. To those of you who say I am being "too sensitive" about the situation, remove me from your friends list. If you know me, you know that I LOVE joking around, and am far from conservative. However, I don't put up with slurs or making light of situations that are not to be made light of. 

Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Um, what was the point of the first post? Did the Guy not get in trouble? I thought he got banned? If he did, why are you posting this story here?

    I guess I just don't get the point of why the OP felt the need to post this! There are terrible things / people on the Interwebs, if I made a post about every troll I saw we would be here all night.

    Yes rape is bad, no he probably shouldn't have said it, though that kind of humor does not go unappreciated (read: Daniel Tosh). But there's no need to post about it.
    Posted 12 months ago by Arbonn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, I wouldn't really say anyone is the victim here. There's been no law broken, no real wrongdoing. Someone got offended because of a joke (because lets be honest, if they thought the person was really going to come to their house and rape them.... Well they maybe a bit paranoid and need some real help).

    It was a distasteful joke now let it go. It doesn't need to be turned into a huge Glitch wide issue.
    Posted 12 months ago by Arbonn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not victimizing anyone, let's not get outta hand Casombre. From what I gather we are all adults here and even if you aren't, there is a certain amount of respect deserved. I don't feel at any point have I not respected nutmeg here. I may have disagreed with handling it all out in the open and making things sound a little like "man bashing" but that's mearly my opinion. One I feel I have as much right to express as she felt for posting this. I agreed it was handled the right way from the beginning and i think he had just as little right to come crawling back to the forums. Posting his own misguided version of what he did wrong and why it happened. But in the end I think it's more than time to move on. Nutmeg I'm sorry if I further hurt your feelings. Be certain that is not my intention here and I hope you'll forgive me if you believe it is. You seem sweet and I'm sorry that guy was a jerk to ya!

    Anyways, y'all have a good evening in Ur. I'm off to bed!
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Arbonn, I cannot speak for Nutmeg herself, but what my take is on the issue is that the other person was spreading around a story (or, multiple stories, it sounds like) that was centered on Nutmeg, making her out to be at fault for the banning, simply because she was the one to stand up and say that he was wrong for making jokes about rape (at the very least, only her name was mentioned). She posted her side (because everyone has a side :)), because I think if you would have read it simply from the other person's POV, then they were totally in the right. 

    She's not entirely posting this because the guy made a joke about rape. She's posting this mainly because the person tried to defame her character. (What I believe, anyway.)

    I don't think there is anything wrong with Nutmeg posting this here, IF this is "one and done".
    If Nutmeg then starts posting everywhere that the other person is a jerk and spams global and starts making multiple threads here about it, THEN do I agree with those saying "just let it go"? Yep! And I do not know Nutmeg personally but it's my guess that this really was just a one and done, to get things out there, clear the air, and then keep on with life. If someone was publicly attacking me in several places on a public forum, I would want to defend myself too xD But... for those of you saying "pity party!", I really can't agree with that. Like I said, if Nutmeg posted multiple threads about it and went on a tirade throughout Glitch,then maybe. But I only see one thread, and it has the air of "I just want to clear things up and let it be done." 

    At least it appears that way to me. :)  I might be wrong. I don't really know XD I wasn't there for the incident, I just have been browsing the forums.
    Posted 12 months ago by Nea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Report bad conduct to TS.
    The sooner we weed the community of ...(your favorite pejorative noun here)...the better.
    Posted 12 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Personally, I think the only one "pity partying" was the dude who started multiple threads painting himself as an angel and bawwwwing to be un-suspended. The fact that people are referring to what he said as a "joke" is reason enough for this thread to exist--that is not a joke, it is a threat, and and awful one at that. And I'm very glad Glitch responded accordingly.
    Posted 12 months ago by Shiromisa Kaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • inb4 mod post
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A threat? So you actually feared that he would find your address by hacking glitch (assuming you are a subscriber, otherwise they don't even have that info) and come rape you? Wow.
    Posted 12 months ago by Arbonn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Arbonn
    The Internet is serious business.
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Correct, Zoei. 

    Arbonn, I'm sorry, where did I say that I thought he was going to find my address and come rape me? Oh, that's right- I didn't. Being offended by threats does NOT = thinking it will actually happen. 

    That being said, it's something that doesn't need to be joked about. While I may be a survivor that has moved past it, I was trying to look out for other victims that may not be at that point in their recovery yet.
    Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @NutMeg Botwin
    Didn't mean you exactly, by the by. 
    In-case you were confused or had question at who exactly I was delivering my little "party" quip to.
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh no, it's fine. I didn't think you were aiming it at me....
    Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Anyone that makes Horatio Cane jokes is pretty much awesome in my book. 
    Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well thanks. :P
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you for speaking up NutMeg. Some people seem strangely defensive in their replies to you. I wonder why they won't just let it go. You know, they could get over it, move on and whatnot. 

    You touched a nerve and made a good point and the threads you're responding to seem to violate the ToS. Aside from that, thank you for saying what needed to be said. Solidarity, sister! 

    I stand with NutMeg.
    Posted 12 months ago by Aleph Zero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • excuse me, but looking out for other victims doesn't BEGIN to be the threshold for why we don't tolerate laughing off rape jokes.

    you don't have to be a victim or even know a victim (although statistically you know more than one) to stand on the side of right.

    we are not talking about a practical joke; we are talking about a culture that allows 52% of the world's population to be systematically devalued.

    but on a smaller scale, what we have here is a person or group of persons who feel that their "roleplay" rightfully extends to people who did not consent to it, which is similar to the concept of rape, if even of trivial scope. it doesn't seem important maybe, but the threadbare excuse of "i was just playin'" gets used an awful lot to cover all things from namecalling to assault and the user of this excuse invariably feels entitled to call it play.

    i am not buying it.
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 flask. That is exactly it in a nutshell.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The dude got suspended.  How this lame story turned into a conflict of social equality, sexual abuse and the downfall of the new generation is completely beyond me.  
    Posted 12 months ago by CosmicBitFlip Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Okay everyone. Lets remember that this is the Internet. A game on the Internet. A social game on the Internet. People are going to act like they do just like they sso everywhere else on the Internet. Trying to make people mad for their own enjoyment. It looks he won. People are clearly upset. Score: Internet Trolls, 4,236,792 Everyone else: 0.

    Thanks for playing. To unsubscribe from trolls on the Internet please call your Internet Service Provider and cancel your service. Otherwise, while you argue on the Internet about whether or not something was a joke, children are starving, Iran is (probably) building nuclear weapons, and homeless people all over the US are starting to get cold and freeze. Let's not dwell and waste time on Internet troll.

    If you REALLY want to help people, the Glitch forums is probably the last place to look.
    Posted 12 months ago by Arbonn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • actually, if you really want to help people, the glitch forums is a perfectly fine place to look.

    i am not telling you what or who or why, but i know that the glitch forum is a fine springboard for doing real good in the real world.
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • brb going to 4chan for medical advice.
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I have heard that Glitch had been vital in the uprisings in the Middle East.
    Posted 12 months ago by Arbonn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm with Nutmeg 100%.  
    Posted 12 months ago by blorgle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • don't air your grievances in the public forum. isn't doing this in and of itself rude? i think it automatically makes NMBW wrong as well. regardless whether anyone is right or wrong in this situation? everyone is wrong. blanket wrongness.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, Mr.Dawgg. Long time, no troll.

    I never mentioned names in my post, and as many of you have completely ignored, I was clearing my name. That is all. I will not tolerate having my reputation ran into the ground without putting my side out there. I made one thread after he made two calling me out by name, and countless status updates about it.
    Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg, NutMeg is far far FAR from blame here if you will open your eyes. She did not start all this but the one at fault DID start it and called her out in name in TWO threads. So she felt since she was named she would clear up the situation and what happened. If you want someone to blame then go to these threads and chew into that person that started it all:

    www.glitch.com/forum/genera...

    www.glitch.com/forum/genera...

    Of course the OP has changed them many many times since he first posted and majorly have cleaned it up from the initial posts.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +100 Flask - I aint buying it either
    Posted 12 months ago by ◘ ▪ Leï.Leï ▪ ◘ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some people may think it's just words on a screen.  Just a game.  But words in a game don't automatically equal the ability to shrug off everything that is encountered, because behind every screen is a real human being with real feelings.  (And, Arbonn, I don't know about your own ways of dealing with things but as for me, I can be concerned about the people and feelings involved here and still be concerned and active about the situation of starving children and I suspect the same is true for many people.)
    Posted 12 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Really? Is there no staff monitoring or wading into this conversation? Tiny Speck has worked hard to create a tone for this game. I'm shocked (and disappointed) at the silence. It is well within their power to signal the kind of community they are wanting to create.
    Posted 12 months ago by LadyKona Paradox Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Now I know why they wanna rape me" 

    I read the long post on rape, didn't make a lot of sense. People make jokes about pretty much everything, its how we deal with the knowledge that it could happen to any one of us.

    no offence, but if you wanna hide at home, pretending it didn't exist, go ahead. I'll be going on with my life, laughing when I can and dealing with the hard times as they come.
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We are all NutMeg.  Don't spread your guano here.  Most of us are reasonable people. Griefers beware. Go somewhere else.
    Posted 12 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What is sorta baking my noodle here is that there are apparently people camping out in this thread for the express purpose of trolling- that doesn't necessarily include everybody who disagrees, but there do seem to be a few superiority complexes playing out here against a backdrop of a conversation one could easily skip. Or so it would seem; if that's not the case, surely you all have better things to do than go on and on about why Nutmeg is wrong here (surely? Maybe I'm being overly optimistic).
    This situation seems pretty cut-and-dried to me (as I've stated elsewhere): somebody showed their ass in a way that made another feel awful. That was taken care of, to a degree; the action taken was definitely justified, and further steps would've been justified as well. The same person then proceeded to act a fool all over their feed and the forums, without regard to or remorse for what they'd done to the other party. I don't see that a "devil's advocate" is really necessary- what is there to advocate for? That being an asshole is okay is if it has to do with "role-playing"? That's a cop-out, and it's not the first time I've heard that individual use it as an excuse to screw with other players. The fact of the matter is that it was completely dickish, and continued to be compounded over and over, world without end. Say what you want about "moving on" and "pity parties"- I don't believe this thread is the latter (for pity-parties, go see Messy Monster's threads and be sure to bring a bottle of whine with you). But the fact is that it was pretty shitty of him, even more so when it became clear that, however he'd bothered others, it was all about him and how important he is and how being called on the carpet for being a dickhead was victimizing him, nevermind how anybody else felt about it.
    And really, if you're the kind of person who thinks rape-jokes are hilarious, you can go right on ahead and click the ol' "Remove From Friends" or "Block" button on my profile-page at any time. I don't find it humorous, and I don't see how avoiding rape-jokes is some kinda imposition- heaven forbid somebody avoids being dickish (arguably so) around others, because it might spoil their own good time somehow; perish the thought. I'm a guy, I'm not a victim of rape, I do know victims of rape, and I don't find it very goddamn funny myself, nor do I wish to be around it.
    Posted 12 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 @ djabrill. I could not have said it better, and I agree.
    Posted 12 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • djgabrill and NMBW calling people trolls. business as usual.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • brb neutrality.
    Anyway, I've voiced my standing with both of the people in question.
    You can look at this person's comment, and follow their link to what I said about MM's ordeal.

    Far as Nutmeg goes, my condolences.
    But meh, sorry the thread kind of spiraled out and off topic a bit.
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I roleplay a lot. I've roleplayed characters that some of the time acted like jerks in one way or another, but there's a very important difference: I was roleplaying with other people who were roleplaying. Conflict can spice a roleplaying up, as long as everyone can enjoy it and keep the conflict IC.. And if it gets to the point where another roleplayer isn't enjoying it, that's the signal to stop.

    However, this wasn't a roleplaying scenario. This was, essentially, one person imposing themselves upon others and generally acting like a jerk and then using "just playing" as an excuse. Not to mention trivializing rape (and that blog post discussing rape jokes does a good job explaining why sending a message like that can be a bad idea, since it emboldens actual rapists).

    And while this is a relatively minor point compared to everything else, it sounded like the character roleplayed here was a fairly shallow one, more a desire to stir things up than an actual character with fleshed out personality, motivations, etc.

    And to the people saying "It's just words", that flies in the face of a fair number of psychological studies suggesting that words are hard to completely ignore. Does other people's emotional distress really matter less than the right to make whatever jokes one wants?

    Nutmeg, you have my sympathy and support.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kaja Rainbow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nutmeg: +1

    The comment in question is not funny. It does not have the potential to be funny. What it does represent is the plight of 67,000+ rape cases in the United States alone (2010). It represents the stories of women who have been gang raped and then blamed as 'asking for it,' or somesuch nonsense. It has the potential to represent a relative or friend.

    To say 'it's just words' is to participate in the devaluation, the control fantasy that is rape. It is not whining to object to such treatment; it is self-defense. And, Nutmeg, you've got my respect for standing up and speaking out.

    Yes, the internet is full of trolls. And, perhaps you can't win an argument with them, or distinguish them from 16 year-olds with infinite amounts of time. But that doesn't mean you should look the other way and tell people to suck it up, grow a spine, or go somewhere else because this is about roleplay, blah, blah, blah. Rape is still a crime. 67,000+ women and their families/friends know it's not a laughing matter, 'roleplay' or not.
    Posted 12 months ago by TK-855 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With you 100% NutMeg. 
    No excuse, ever at all for casual comments about rape in this game.
    That is not "role playing" it is just wrong, thoughtless, inconsiderate, stupid, nasty etc.etc.
    Well done for standing up for rape victims and trying to show those who don't understand the problem see why it is wrong.
    Thank you.
    Posted 12 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I applaud TS for the way they deal with issues like this. I had a very negative (violent/sexual) encounter while still in Beta. Yeah, the guy is a long way removed and no physical harm was likely to come, but it really shook me up all the same. The Devs were amazing in their response to the incident. 

    To be a feminist is not the same as man hating or bashing. I think it's hard for some people to understand what it means to be physically vulnerable and to have a long history of oppression attached to your gender. The changes in western culture regarding women have been profound in the last 100 years, but we still have far to go, which is demonstrated here when we see players thinking sexual violence in role playing is harmless. The same goes for racial or religious slurs. It's just unacceptable in a game that is based on community building.
    Posted 12 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +10,000 Riverwalker.
    Posted 12 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Volkov, I don't see how this is a pity party. Where did the OP ask or imply anyone to feel bad for her? Exposing bad behavior as part of a wider problem isn't the same thing as "airing dirty laundry". I'm glad NutMeg has the courage to post something like this for everyone to see. This sort of thing depends on silence to perpetrate it. I don't think you get that.

    You don't get to tell NutMeg she should just "get over" this incident or how she should deal with it. If reading about how rape and sexual abuse is a real problem, even in a silly MMO like Glitch, and makes you uncomfortable, maybe you should click the X in the corner of your browser and stop reading it. It makes the rest of us uncomfortable when you tell victims how they should react.
    Posted 12 months ago by Laerwen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • quit perpetuating this...
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Everyone stop. Take a step back. Both this thread and the other one ABOUT THE SAME TOPIC are airing dirty laundry. There was no reason to take either stances to the forums. It was in game and DEALT WITH in game. Instead, there is the jerk asking for leniancy and then the dead horse beaters. But don't let me get in the way of feeling offended. I mean, these two lengthy topics have really changed the way people think. I'm sure of it.
    Posted 12 months ago by Malus Agricola Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jordy, you quit perpetuating rape culture, and the rest of us will stop having to point it out. Quite simple, really.
    Posted 12 months ago by Laerwen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm doing no such thing. Your ignorance is perpetuating this argument so why don't you take your own advice and click the little x up in the corner! Get gone!
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jordy we all have choices here. You have a choice not to read or comment on a thread. If you don't like the topic or what is being discussed then move on. Not all that hard. However, you do not have the right to tell anyone else to stop contributing to a thread and just this comment, "Your ignorance is perpetuating this argument so why don't you take your own advice and click the little x up in the corner! Get gone!"  Is being a bully. How is commenting on what has happened and how people feel about how someone was treated considered "ignorant"?
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps you should fully read the comments before trying to get a word in. I have as much right to say that to her as she did to Volkov. You have that same right and I'm choosing to use it just like you did. She's ignorant to the rest of the conversation being had through the comments on this thread. Really at this point yall are just bullying me for speaking my mind. The only difference is that it doesn't bother me and I'm fine with commenting to defend myself.

    As far as I'm concerned I apologized sincerely to nutmeg and have let that all go...like I said before yall are the ones perpetuating it at this point, not me!
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • a sincere apology is not usually followed by a justification of the original behavior. a sincere apology usually doesn't include instructions about getting over it and a need for the last word. a sincere apology doesn't leave everyone around with the certain stink of "i'm sorry YOU were offended, but you really should shut up now."

    do not make me get out my trombone...
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1000 flask. Omg I could just hug you!
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My apologize was to nutmeg, not yall! Everyone wants to call me out and thus I keep posting. I'm no going to let those comments go unanswered haha!

    Get your trombone!
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink