Topic

Unwritten "rules"

So, I noticed in other threads that there are some unwritten "rules" that some players have come up with that, when broken, irritate the heck out of them. I remember the same thing happening in Faunasphere, which seemed to only result in lengthy arguments and alot of very angry people. Although common courtesy is something that should be expected from everyone (but don't be surprised if some players don't show it), defining specific rules of behavior that not everyone is privy to (no matter how "obvious" it is in your mind) will only result in alot of unnecessary stress, IMHO. It will get a million times worse when the game goes live, by the way. Here's a list of the ones I've seen, including my personal opinion on each one:

1) Thou shalt not pick items up from the ground that are at another player's feet.
    --- I am ashamed that I did this once or twice the first day I played, without thinking. It didn't occur to me at the time that the person may have left it there temporarily with the intent of picking it up again later. Now that I see there may be a reason for a player to do this (I didn't at the time know how limited our inventory was), I don't do that any more, and I see how it is common courtesy not to. However, some newbies (especially) may not know what they're doing (like me). This is the most understandable of all the unwritten rules, but anyone who drops stuff should realize that there is a chance someone else will grab it (either obliviously, or maliciously).

2) Thou shalt not mine a rock that someone else is mining.
    --- The game makes it possible to do this, so it's obviously not a hard game rule. I didn't see a problem with doing this until I read in the forums that some people were irritated by it, and wanted to be able to sit on one rock all by themselves until it is gone. After seeing that, I stopped doing it, but don't expect other people to automatically know this unwritten rule (or even agree with it).

3) Thou shalt not scrape barnacles unless you are part of a group in the area that is doing so, and are coordinating with them about which ones you are allowed to scrape.
    --- I just read about this one a few moments ago, which is what sparked me to start this thread... All I have to say is: Really? WOW! .... how are people outside your group suppose to know this? And do you really think this is fair? Really??? hmmm.... Maybe we should have the same rule for everything else one can gather in the game. Why stop at barnacles? Please, let me know if I'm misinterpreting this one.

Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • [redacted - double post]
    Posted 20 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe they fixed the bug with that message by getting rid of it. :D
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • First time I've heard #3. I've never seen a barnacle party and have scraped quite a few last test. I do tend to leave an area if I find there's someone else already there harvesting -although I may be half way across before we bump into one another. I can imagine it does get very stressful if barnacles are needed for a project. Most people I've seen are sensible about and will move on if possible. Thats not so easy at peak times when you  need a bit of sparkly I suppose. There's always room for messages to say sorry or to make agreements. Touchwood I've had no problems so far, most players where we've crossed have been polite/grateful/happy to share.  I am aware these aren't set game rules - but its like real life: I play it the way I feel happiest with. i can't force the rest of the world to live my way so I just have to go with the flow. It will all even out sooner or later. Glitch karma?  
    Posted 20 months ago by Twoodle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Didn't any of you read the Terms & Conditions?

    "You agree to abide by, support and uphold all and any of Glitch's rules, principles, codes of conduct and ethical standards, both real and imaginary, written and unwritten."




    /possible untruth 
    Posted 20 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, but who is the Glitch who writes and unwrites?
    Posted 20 months ago by rothko Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Don't you feel that this subject and conversation is very part of the game itself?

    It's just a new world, rule-free, and as a group, we're trying to make the living together better by establishing rules. It doesn't seem weird to me. Now it's unwritten rules, but who knows what it's going to be with thousands of players? After all, we're supposed to create the world of Glitch. Isn't creating gaming-rules a part of that creation?

    What about the political part of the game? What we're doing right, establishing rules and wanting them to be respected as well as not caring about the rules and just wanting the fun of individual playing, may be part of that aspect of the game.

    I have a deep "Animal Farm" feeling about that. Sorry if it rings a negative bell to some of you. I just can't help it. ^^' But this is fascinating really. That's why I love Glitch so much.
    Posted 20 months ago by Moumoushou Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just to explain 'Barnacle parties' for the newer people:
    If someone else is scraping a barnacle and you start scraping as well before they finish, you each get a barnacle. So back when barnacles were in short supply, we would get as many people together as possible and all scrape the same barnacle at the same time to multiply the result.
    Posted 20 months ago by Nill Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hm..
    1) ...until they walk away from it.
    2 through 4) will likely get me arrested or fined many times over.... wait, where are our police and judicial system? oh right, there isnt one!
    5) duh!
    ...just sayin..
    Posted 20 months ago by Cap'n Bob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I must admit, I accidentally mined another's rock... er, well- it started out as 'mine'... I didn't move but had to take a *real* break and someone was mining it when I started back, before looking.
    So, with that - I apologize haphazardly as there are plenty of rocks in the Glitchian sea that I will be mining when we return! And will double-check that no-one is mining the rock I am standing in front of... but you are welcome to mine with me, if you so choose - bring the beer, please. :P
    I also apologize, I don't remember who you were... if you are/were offended.
    All the other rules, save the barnacle one, are common sense, as so many have pointed out.
    I will try to remember the barnacle thing... I need a group.
    Posted 20 months ago by Orefye Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just wanted to say, because some people seem confused, I think everyone agrees that it's TOTALLY okay to pick up a random object you might find. It's only rude if it's by someone's feet.
    I like scattering strange items around for others to find. And I don't get upset if I decorate my lawn with blue bubbles or worthless shiny objects just for the hell of it, and someone comes to steal them.

    On mining, like Clare, I get why I shouldn't get pissed off when someone starts mining my rock, but I'm still not comfortable with it and would not do it to someone else. That said, I don't think campers should sit on one rock and expect no one else to touch it ever.

    I also realize that these are my personal opinions, and that others play differently, and I get really resentful when anyone starts ordering other players around.
    Posted 20 months ago by Helcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1  Moumoushou very well said
    Posted 20 months ago by riscy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My take on any game ,First read T.O.S and do it,As a good player use your courtesy and type can I.Is it okey.I am sure if the Glitch people wanted a list of THOU SHALT NOTS.they would have done it as part of your sign up.But as yet read the T.O.S.
    Posted 20 months ago by Jellybelly Baby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • From my experiences with other games I've played I have found that common courtesy should be the number one "unwritten rule."  Unfortunately there are usually several bad eggs. Unwritten rules are different for everyone and everyone has their own idea of what is/isn't acceptable behavior.  When I first started in Faunasphere "my rules" differed drastically from others'. I didn't grasp the concept of the assumed ownership of something that was out there for anyone to gather.  As I got more involved in the game I started to realize that my behaviors were rather frustrating to others and my "unwritten rules" changed.  Once things that frustrated others started happening to me, I found out why it was so frustrating. 

    I definitely agree with voicing opinions on what annoys you about the behaviors of other folks in the game.  It might help create awareness and provoke thought if anything. 
    Posted 20 months ago by Effington Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Beta coming up makes me nervous. If we can't even agree on the unwritten rules, how are we going to explain some of them to the influx of newcomers we're sure to get? P.S. I hope that the long test means lots of parties!

    Wait here's one:

    Rule #115a) Bring lots of food and drink to parties!
    115b) If you don't have any food or drink, COME ANYWAY!
    Posted 20 months ago by Jhennauchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • maybe it'll mean you just need to get over it
    Posted 20 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Coexist" as the bumper sticker says.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love your idea of the unwritten rules sheperdmoon. Please continue to add a few from the others and make a final list as a sticky at the top of the forum! Love it. Don't want a second FS disaster! You rock!!!
    Posted 20 months ago by Atlantis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Seriously and sorry to sound like im looking for an argument. I'm not at all :) But If anyone goes and make's up, made up rules then sticks them up somewhere [which as of now you can't] They become written made up rules?? I might feel inclined to tell them just where to stick um ;)
    Now I have been able to collect a little data on our average age ranges I don't really think we need to be told made up rules. We are all of an age of common sense and one made up rule for one is not going to be someone else's. Plus those who are selfish, will not ever play nicely.
    I will play nicely and not encroach on anyone else's play/test I will say please and thank you. But in till Glitch adds rules under the title Glitch Official rules, then I'm playing my way and no on else's...... sorry :)
    Posted 20 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • " But in till Glitch adds rules under the title Glitch Official rules, then I'm playing my way and no on else's...... sorry :)"


    says Misha, and I agree.

    As long as these rules are only what the community thinks is best, and aren't official game rules, then breaking them has no consequence. Except the disapproval of the community. But, personally, while I am not an extremely selfish person, I am not ultra considerate either. And I can already see that some things I consider harmless are rude and nasty in other people's eyes.

    End of it all, if you know people CAN abuse your trust, limit the trust. Don't leave something on the ground and then be all in tears because some 'inconsiderate glitch' took it. Measure the risk of setting the object down, first. Because even if you claim there's an unwritten rule that disallows this, it's a pretty feeble argument.
    Posted 20 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The problem with unwritten rules, is that they are unwritten. The only way to get to know any given culture's set of unwritten rules, is to immerse yourself in that culture and observe the existing behaviour, and from those observations, you can detect patterns and so infer rules. It's a pretty inexact science, and everyone will draw their own set of conclusions - each slightly different. And, of course, until you've spend a reasonable amount of time making those observations and inferences, you've got no idea what the social norms are, so you're quite likely to cross that rather indistinct line a few times. All the comments so far demonstrate all of this quite admirably.

    For what it's worth, in my view, the only unwritten rule that anyone can reasonably be expected to have any notion of is "don't be a dick". That's because it's not Glitch-specific. Being a dick is pretty much a no-no in whatever social group you choose to identify with (of course, the definition of "dick" can vary somewhat between groups).

    It's really not hard to figure out a few things that would count as being dick-like behaviour. Snatching freshly-dropped things from people's feet is pretty darn rude wherever you go. Mining the same rock? Well, I guess it might be nice to ask, but it doesn't seem a big deal really. And that barnacle thing? Heck, I've been here longer than Shimla Mirch and I didn't know they were taboo.


    Some people get a kick out of being a dick, especially on-line, where there's a nice veneer of anonymity to insulate them from the real people they're being dickish to. They'll always be there, and no rules, written or unwritten will stop them. But at least we can look at them and think, "Blimey, what a dick".
    Posted 20 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Players have picked up stuff I've dropped at my feet.  I suppose at different times it could have annoyed me a little; but I also thought--  I need to learn to manage my inventory better.
    Posted 20 months ago by rothko Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Are you sure that these are the unwritten rules of all 10,000+ alpha testers?  Because I'm not seeing more that a handful of people agreeing that these are the rules. 

    You really cannot assume that the other 98% of the players will agree with you.  This forum seems to be primarily used by about 100 people who post frequently.  While it's a nice friendship group, it certainly can't be used as  any indication of what Glitch is like or whether your agreed-upon unwritten rules are "what the community thinks best". 

    There are 10,000 alpha testers, and soon to be 10s of thousands of more beta testers.  It's not likely that a few hundred people have actually imposed their playing style on those people, most of whom do not even come to this forum.  It's going to get even less likely in a few days. 
    Posted 20 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @shhexycorin

    Are they trying to censor you?
    Posted 20 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • + a million Misha! and WindBorn!

    I definitely didn't make it clear enough, but my post was meant to be slightly sarcastic. I think it's silly that we're heatedly discussing unwritten rules and such, when we only have the dynamic of ourselves to go off of. We have no idea how the group dynamics will change with the advent of beta and the pouring in of new players, so why try and pin it down now?

    Rule 326: If you're on the same street as me, feel free to say "hi," and I'll do the same to you! Let's be social, ya'll! </why am I making rules for social engagements?>
    Posted 20 months ago by Jhennauchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep. I'm with Misha, Cefeida, Dopiaza and WindBorn and all the other similarly opinionated people here. No one can write unwritten rules. And to those of you who like the nice tidy little community we have right now, youre in for a shock when 40,000+ new players join and then they allow all current players invites for their friends - we'll be up to about 100,000 registered players and your 'etiquette' will be observed by a number countable on your right hand, at any given time.
    There's enough law and govt IRL. We dont need it here. Play nice and hopefully others will too. (Though sometimes it's fun to be a jackass just for shits and giggles;)
    Posted 20 months ago by Cap'n Bob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Good thread. Of course, they will learn these things as they play and  that's how it's meant to be; we can't control the world, ya da ya da.

    Still  if we're listing such pet peeves  I'd add this:

    Don't dig a peat bog if you see a group standing around it. They're probably starting a challenge  ... which requires a full bog.
    Posted 20 months ago by Chelseathing Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cap`t Bob right on ,'dont need no rules as when 100,000 people register here',As Faunasphere,your rules blow away in the wind for lots of folks who dont care what you think .It is to them only a game.'Be nice Play nice 'that is what I would love to see.BUT I am a realist and know we have no idea whats to come here with 100,000 folks trying to make some cash mining.should be crazy.That is why I play crazy music behind me all day like just now ;Wooly bully Wooly bully. just groove and ignore the darkness in game.
    Posted 20 months ago by Jellybelly Baby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I read this the other day thinking, SSDD...every online community I've been a part of these past--nearly--30 years has the same "unwritten rules" written somewhere. I read them, as a newbie, only know how restrictive a community can be; how much of "me" I can put out there. 

    But then I got that Mining Quest (15 rocks in 5 minutes) and I'm revisiting #2 with a side eye. See, I tried to that quest 4 times today. Judging by movements, I'd say 5 other people were also trying to do that quest. With those people, but the people just harvesting an entire rock, completing the quest is near impossible. I got into one level and there were 10 people in there mining. The most people I've seen in any level. Ever. 


    The movements of the other 5 people led me to believe they had also read the unwritten #2 rule. I would have been perfectly fine with them mining on the same rock. But the time limit of the quest doesn't allow for chatting and waiting for a possible response. There are a lot of rocks around, but if this game gets out of beta soon, an influx of people will make this "unwritten rule" unwieldy.
    Posted 20 months ago by Jarhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lol Jarhaven. No bounce, no play.
    Posted 20 months ago by Phoebe Springback Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I personally agree with most of the rules except for the community gardens.

    If you really need say.. tomatoes ASAP, you should go there and take them. If you had enough time to clear and plant and water and wait for it to grow, you would go to your own house and use your patch instead.


    I will, however, plant stuff there when I have a surplus of seeds and time to kill for others to gather when I am not there. 


    So basically, the people who plant in the community gardens shouldn't expect others to clean, water or replant patches.
    Posted 20 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ya know, changing the order on how you handle community gardens fixes the debate... when everyone leaves the community garden plots dirty, everyone gets to do the same work. If 100% of the patches are filthy, the next guy has to clean, and water to plant. End result is either people gardening at home, not gardening, or sharing the load equally.

    P.S. Not sure where the tens of thousands are being pulled from... yes the queue may have contained that many applicants, but it is not a direct reflection of the number of players. I guess it depends on how you define 'player'. The reset was two months ago... as of test close, there are 2919 people with at least 1xp... 2721 of them have at least 10xp, and 1912 have reached at least Level 2. If you haven't made a character, made it out of the tutorial yet, or been around in a few months... well I tell people we have around 3000 players.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What on earth would mean you were in such a hurry that you couldn't clear up?

    Not that I care,  I'm not  a fan of unwritten rules in Glitch... just interested to know what the rush is
    Posted 20 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The rush is for food for projects, for instance.

    And about switching the order, Travi, I understand what you say but my order has more to do with time and supplies than anything else.


    What I am trying to say is that when I have time I will clean, water and plant patches for others to gather. Also sowing has more benefits than produce alone. I believe patches are there for new players that cant afford a house yet and need to advance on gardening skills.
    Posted 20 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, the fact that the gardens are in the public domain you should take sowing as an act of kindness and not expect to find the potatoes you planted when you return.
    Posted 20 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Personally,I hate the unwritten rules.If you don't own it,it ain't yours...Simple enough for me..So ...if I want it all for myself, well then, put it in a market place with a nice dollar price on it and I will pay to own it! It could be by currants or cash giving me the opportunity to own my own piece of the pie that I need or covet...I have a garden and a zoo,some barnacles,and a smart mouthed gnome...a mine with a selection of ores would be real nice addition.........
    Posted 20 months ago by Tilly TrinkleHouse Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "If you read carefully (especially the first paragraph), you will see that I disagree with making up unwritten rules because all that does is create conflict."

    That was the wisest thing in the whole thread.  It was a quick downhill slide when people started trying to apply the unwrittens to other players a test or 2 ago.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We haven't agreed on an unwritten rule regarding trees, have we? I had did a 'Little Life Lessons' thread back in FS explaining common courtesy, and I think this is an equivalent. But about trees and poisoning, it's just so frustrating. I say we put aside a street or 2 just for mud and loam harvesting, and leave other streets full of trees. Or, better still, make a quest level to poison 10 trees within 2 minutes, and make it repeatable.
    Posted 20 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My take on this is that this thread is a perfect example of Alpha testing and how the use of a system by many voluntarily will identify areas of conflict.
    All of the above rules can be summed up as "Don't do it to someone else if it would bug you". This is a decent way to deal with any world, virtual or real. 

    I have observed many virtual communities as part of my Master's Degree, and there seems to be a point where a good game becomes a great game, and this happens when people educate those that break "socially acceptable" imaginary guidelines, instead of berating and attacking. 

    The other point that makes a game great is the adoption of the "pay it forward" rule by the more established players, where a player helps another, and instructs them instead of returning the favour, to pass it on to another new player when they are able and established themselves.


    There will always be those that play social games for their own personal ends, that violate the community, it is what makes the world a dynamic and interesting place, but with the majority of players making this place as welcoming as I found it, I have no doubt this game will go on to become more than the sum of its parts :)
    Posted 20 months ago by Araldia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here Here Araldia
    Posted 20 months ago by Bob Apple Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm kinda shocked at the barnacle one!  I needed barnacle talc to do something.  How am I going to do that without scraping barnacles? I don't like to just automatically get things from auctions, like to work things out for myself.  
    Posted 20 months ago by Cabinwood Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If I need barnacles and nobody on the street is scraping, I scrape alone.  These are really just guidelines that are smart to follow and/or some choose to follow.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am with you on that one, Cabinwood.  I was trundling along in the swamps on my way back to the meadow area from the mines (do not ask, I am map challenged) when I stumbled across some barnacles. Thought, what can I do with those, harvested a few when another player came in doing the same, so I passed the one they were working on and moved on and tried the next one - that earned me a splank and worse, same player did not stay and explain. Later I learned that a project was on-going and needed barnacles and later still, I learned that the same person is now a official greeter of new players .. go wonder!
    Beware of "rules" be they unwritten or not, but if you are going to punish me, please do tell me what "rule" it is I have transgressed before you punish me, and give me the time  required (for my typing level and language) to explain myself.
    Posted 20 months ago by Lellie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A nice unwritten rule should be forgive new players in Glitch (like me) who are still learning how to even jump, still can't do except by mistake.  I have no idea what or where the community garden is let alone that some trees and animals belong to anyone.  As for barnacles and rocks I don't even know if I have ever ran into those or not.  
    I believe that your home should be your castle and would be really disappointed if anyone removed/stole/took things I had inside my home.  I had always enjoyed sharing in f/s and go out of my way to give things to anyone who needed and had a use for something I might have had.  It never hurts to just ask if you see something you need, you might be surprised by how generous people are.  :) 
    Posted 20 months ago by xoxJulie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This seems like a good discussion to ressurect considering how many times I've seen all of these things discussed in the past few weeks... days... and hours, lmao.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is unrealistic to hope/think/assume that once we're live, new players will care about our unwritten rules - and know what, nor should they.
    Posted 18 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's funny that this post (I think?) started out by saying that there are too many expectations around "unwritten rules" and how that can lead to Bad Things by the OP, and somehow it turned into a "we need more unwritten rules and they need to be written" by a bunch of other folks! 

     ^_^
    Posted 18 months ago by Zannah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No real incentive to follow player made rules
    Posted 18 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 1. When I first started I saw someone, all alone, dropping stuff. Not knowing you couldn't organise your inventory easily and have items swap slots, I assumed s/he was throwing stuff away. I picked up the dropped items and was close to exiting the street when that player informed me that s/he still wanted those items. I immediately returned and dropped them back, and got a thank you. 

    Afterwards I've been hesitant to pick up anything on the floor that wasn't a key unless the entire street is empty. Personally, I throw away things I don't need (and are too lazy/generous to sell) and just exit the street quietly, leaving the people present to pick up my things if they wish.

    2. I've heard that a few people are irritated by this, and generally don't mine a rock someone else is already mining, if there are a lot of rocks and few people around. In those situations it feels like going into a men's public washroom, with only one other man inside, and then choosing the urinal next to him. Bit weird and creepy. But if a place is crowded and lots of people are already mining together, then I don't have any hesitation in regards to mining next to someone else.

    I don't mind if someone chooses to mine with me even if the place is empty and has plenty of other rocks to go around, personally. I don't understand why people are irritated by this either, especially when the interaction says "Help Mine". What happens if multiple people mine on one rock, anyway? I just assume that since it says "Help", there are greater or at least equal rewards for everybody.

    3. I've never heard of this, and this really confuses me, since staff members themselves think that group barnacle scraping is a great idea. Of course, I've never scraped barnacles and don't have experience with it much, so what do I know.
    Posted 18 months ago by Liridona Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Zachariah -- Except for maddened crowds of backlash and fury, lmao.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Isn't that what Teleport really is for?
    Posted 18 months ago by Liridona Subscriber! | Permalink