Topic

...And Then There Were None.

So I just took a shower, and while I was showering I got shampoo in my eye.  It really hurt, and I thought "Wow this is annoying".  I washed the soap out but then I kept thinking how annoyed I was.  Then I started thinking about all the things that annoy me.  Long story short, my ADD brought up the topic of the Peat Quest in Glitch.  This was the only group quest I have participated in, and I LOVE group quests.  

However, the first time I attempted the Peat Quest, it was bugged and would not give me credit (please don't ask if I pushed the button to start before hand, me and a group of 5 other people spent nearly an hour, it was bugged!).  The second time I went to complete it, another Glitch followed our group and each pile of peat he would dig in so that we could not find any Peat Hills that were full.  At first I thought it was on accident, that the Glitch in question had just been grinding for peat and was digging in all of the same peats we needed for the quest.  But then he started yelling "Leeerrrooooyyy Jennkkinnns" before digging each peat. (Here's the link for those of you who don't know who Leroy Jenkins is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU)

Anyways, it took us quite some time to find a full peat and complete the quest.  My question now is what will happen when the game opens to the public?  The game is free, and will attract a large number of people because they can play for free.  This is bad though because there will be other people who run around purposely instigating fights or trying to make life miserable for the other Glitches.  Thus far, we have been very fortunate because most people who are in testing really love the game and want to help each other out, but not all players are so caring.

So, what will be done to punish people who do things like this?  Will there be a way to "report" a player so that repeat offenders will be noticed?  Is there already a way to report other players?  And what will be the punishment for players who do things like what I described above?  Warnings?  Suspensions?  Banned?  

I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but I think this could be a big problem when the game opens.  Also, I am still relatively new and although I think I have a good grasp on many aspects of the game, the social aspects are still unknown to me.  I am not sure what happens to people who "misbehave".  If this has been covered in a previous forum, please post a link to it and sorry!

Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • " Thus far, we have been very fortunate because most people who are in testing really love the game and want to help each other out"

    Actually, in beta, we've gotten a glimpse of what 'jerk' behavior looks like (quotes because some would argue that it's not being a jerk if you can do it in-game). The devs have said in another topic (somewhere that I cannot find, because search on the forums isn't great) that some people will be jerks and that if it can be done in-game, then it can be done in-game.

    It's pretty easy to be a jerk in this game, if being a jerk means getting in someone's way while they are doing something (as with your peat bog quest).  Or if it means cutting down all the trees in West Spice, or taking someone's machine to hold it ransom, or filling a street with sad pigs just to get an achievement badge, or being a nuisance in global chat.

    While I don't care to play with anyone being a jerk, either, I'm reluctant to ask the devs to banish such behavior from the game.  The line between between a jerk and being a griefer is not likely to be well defined.  Lots and lots of people thought that people were jerks for mining another rock with them (that is, until that mechanism changed).  People have started all sorts of accusations about theft (someone taking something left on a public street) and most of the time, the person just thought it had spawned there for the taking, much like all the other crap that spawns for the taking in-game.

    We have no community guidelines.  It wouldn't surprise me if, when we do, they are vague and broad ('you know the jerk, don't be that jerk'), which may or may not help matters.  So, until we do have them (if we ever have them), it's really up to whatever staffer is around to handle as they see fit.  I've seen no action taken and i've seen a player sent to an interrogation room and i've seen game mechanics changed to foil things (tree poison, pigs, mining).

    In the last test, a player talked in global chat about how much they love disrupting games for other players and went down a little laundry list of some of the clever ways they have ruined things for other players in other games and how much enjoyment they got out of it.  I expect that more of this type of player will emerge post-launch. i expect community reaction to range in the ways it already has: "the game needs antagonists, well, we will just gather a posse and follow them around to teach them a lesson, we will create a shame list, let's bitch to the devs about it, bad guys are good, there are lots of ways to play the game and being bad is one of them," yadda yadda.

    Sounds like the makings of an awful lot of drama.  Community Guidelines might at least set player expectation (don't be a jerk in global chat), but then again, the most clever foil I've read yet here is, "I'm not a jerk, it's my character!!!"

    I'm still in wait-and-see mode.  But if you look for topics here on trees and poisoning, you'll get a little taste of the drama that has already come to pass around 'jerks'.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can understand things like mining the same rock and picking something up off the ground and while I don't agree that its necessarily jerky, its slightly different than what I mean.  I'm talking more along the lines of purposely making it impossible for someone to complete a quest or not allowing a player to progress in some way as opposed to just being rude.

    I don't really have an opinion yet, I'm not sure if there should be guidelines or everything should just be left to happen as it will.  I'm kind of a fan of reporting someone, so that if someone is spending 8 hours a day halting the progress of other Glitches, and it gets reported time and time again, then action can be taken.  But then there is the problem of when is it too much that action should be taken?
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think all games need some jerks playing them. 
    If everyone's pleasant and decent all the time, we'd all get complacent. Then all the nice people would end up turning on each other, just because there'd be nobody else to distract them.
    Jerks are great, as all the negative energy can be focused on them, people can have an argument with them, then a good rant about them to their friends and, Presto! Instant stress relief.  
    I don't like reporting people who haven't broken specific rules. It's like life, if someone's being annoying, but not breaking the law, you can't bother the cops about them.  
    One of the challenges of online gaming is dealing with trolls, spammers, jerks. It's just part of the experience. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  •  ----> A long read, but much the same discussion I think.

    +1 Ebil "One of the challenges of online gaming is dealing with trolls, spammers, jerks. It's just part of the experience."
    Posted 18 months ago by JW Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "One of the challenges of online gaming is dealing with trolls, spammers, jerks. It's just part of the experience."

    That's why there are a LOT of people who don't play MMOs.  A great many people don't want that experience.  It's why I've only ever played 2.5 (the .5 is Kingdom of Loathing, for the curious).  The point is not to say, "This is how things are, deal with it," but to say, "How can we make it better?"  I don't know how set Tiny Speck is on making this an open signup, but if there's any chance they might take another route, I'll toss them my standing idea for building a strong community. 

    Make signups by referral only, and the person who refers not only vouches for the person they invite but also agrees that they will also be held partially accountable for the actions of the people they bring in.  It's a bit of guarantee that people will make sure that the people they bring in aren't going to unduly disrupt the game.  Obviously you don't want to make the penalties as harsh for the person who invited, and you may want to have the link between the accounts fade over time (such that the guy who goes nuts 2 years down the road isn't still causing problems for their sponsor).  I think it's a fantastic way to build accountability in to a system.
    Posted 18 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have to agree with Ebil on this one. There will always be someone whose personality you don't mesh with, and whose play style you don't like. Ignore them, move to a different area, log off and go play outside for a while, etc. Don't let them ruin your day.
    Posted 18 months ago by Essie Kitten Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "If everyone's pleasant and decent all the time, we'd all get complacent. Then all the nice people would end up turning on each other, just because there'd be nobody else to distract them."


    As a 'nice' person (well, my character likes to help people, anyway), this is load of horseshit.


    Alpha testers tested for many many many months, and even when bored with what the game had, no one turned on each other.  Some people just don't go to games for conflict, and those people don't need some self-righteous 'jerk' to improve their game.  Be honest, if you like conflict in a game, then great, but not everyone else does, and that doesn't make them smiley happy flower people.  I game for the community aspect, but anyone who knows me IRL knows I can be a bitch (stop laughing, some of you devs, you), so it has nothing to do with being a nicey nicey anti-conflict hippy, it has to do with how I want to spend my free time.  I won't spend it 'fighting' someone in a game because they are a jerk and took all my peat.  I'll just not play or i'll figure how out to play to avoid them.


    That said, I don't think anyone should be reported for screwing up a quest.  There are options to lose the trail of someone scooping you on your peat.  You set up a party chat with just the people involved in the quest and you decide who is going to teleport you away from the jerk and then you get your quest done.  


    I don't think people should be reported for anything which is not laid out in a rule somewhere, like 'don't spam', 'don't stalk and be a perv,' 'don't shout and be disruptive to global chat', and 'don't name call other players.'


    I don't see how you can make a rule 'don't fuck up someone else's gameplay' because too many things can be called 'fucking up someone else's gameplay' when they may not be.  Is auction arbitrage fucking up gameplay?  Is someone taking all the peat from all the bogs near you fucking up gameplay?  Is someone taking the bag you dropped on a public street fucking up gameplay?  Maybe, but maybe you just need to be smarter about where you drop bags or collect peat or the prices you set on auction.  


    I'm worried that if staff is fine for us reporting anything another player does that we do not like, then it's all arbitrary: whoever appeals the best to staff with a good story can set the rules.  I'd rather there just be a rule, 'if the game mechanics allow it, we won't step in to meditate it.'


    But I'd also rather see some form of community guidelines for abusive, nasty, rotten behavior such as spamming or threats or what have you, verbal stuff that cannot be hung on a 'my character is a dick for the good of the game, I'm actually quite lovely!'
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why only .5 on KoL, Magic Monkey? Just curious, don't want to derail anything. (Me, I only stopped playing because I got distracted by school, or some other RL thing, and I couldn't keep up with the changes and expansions. Which made it less fun for me, because I like to Know All The Things. And now I can't even log in.)
    Posted 18 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Because it isn't really an MMO, it's a single player game with a robust chat interface. Still a great game though! I used to play quite a lot (though it was quite some time ago that I was really active, I'm on the list of first 100 ascenders to give you an idea of when that was) but likewise couldn't keep up and can't stand the Not Knowing Everything. 

    Back on topic, I would much rather see the game adapt to work around the disruptive behavior.  Case in point: mining.  Instead of saying "the game mechanics allow people to be upset by this" (a summation of a much more complicated issue as most of us know) they said "What can we change to make it work for everyone?"  Then they came up with a wonderfully clever solution where an attempt to grief someone ends up helping them.  That's what I want to see more of!
    Posted 18 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah you guys brought up some really good points.  In particular when zee said "I dont see how you can make a rule 'don't fuck up someone else's gameplay' because too many things can be called 'fucking up someone else's gameplay'

    I can see both sides of this argument really well and understand them both, so I'm more just trying to see what other people say -- maybe it will help me decide my opinion
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink