Topic

I think it is time to remove the NPC vendors

and if not now, then soon.

Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • What about the things that we can't get anywhere else? Like parsnips, olive oil and honey? (I'm curious is all :p)
    Posted 19 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That makes no sense. 

    When I need something, and it is not on auction, am I just supposed to pay whatever price someone wants to charge me for the item?    Or do I have to wait for someone to enter the game who is willing to provide some competitive pricing? 

    Shouldn't  I have an option to travel some distance from where I am and pay the vendor's price?
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I believe they're only there to help with testing, so they'll be going away someday.  Spice spawning could go away yesterday.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've also read somewhere that the vendors were temporary.  But not everything is player-makeable yet :\
    Posted 19 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, seriously, I don't understand. To repeat what Millie said, parsnips, olive oil, honey, salmon, hooch, beer, coffee, etc. are not makeable. Are you suggesting they take out all the recipes requiring those things?

    Also, +1 WindBorn.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think perhaps we might be at a point where the vendors could be thinned out, but we're not ready to have them removed entirely. The world is not large enough to sustain itself, few people can actually create tools, and a large number of things can't be created at all. Also.... if they disappear before the reset, we're gonna be up a creek when we have no skills.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I favor the idea of getting rid of vendors.  Of course it wouldn't make sense to do that unless there were a way for starting players, i.e. everyone after the wipe, to get the basic tools they need.

    Some people might take up farming to provide produce and seeds for others (maybe starting seeds are granted as a reward for donating to a particular giant).  Others might take up tool making (perhaps Tinkering 1 could allow someone to make knives and cutting boards).  There could be some kind of crafting occupation that would allow people to make different size bags and spice racks.  There are lots of opportunities for all sorts of new skills.
    Posted 19 months ago by Merek Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't get it, where are we going to get certain things (mentioned above) and who are we going to sell our rubbish to? Just what am I supposed to do with all the gems I mine if I don't sell them to a vendor?
    Posted 19 months ago by Fussycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Right now gems have little use except for donations at shrines, although sometimes projects call for them.  I'd guess that future projects, like house and group hall improvements might call for gems as part of the materials needed.

    Maybe there could even be a crafting profession that uses gems to create jewelry and housing decorations.

    As for selling other rubbish, donate it to help speed up learning!
    Posted 19 months ago by Merek Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't want them to go away, but fyi at Fussycat, you can donate your gems to shrines for great rewards, especially when enhanced with Hallowed Shrine Powder...

    I only like the idea of them going away if a player or group of players can form a company or proprietorship to replace that vendor's goods, and keep the NPC stocked or some kind of storefront stocked, or have some kind of mobile selling ability (even better, that).  That actually would be an incentive to learn and maintain some high level skills and high volume accumulation that is not project-oriented.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Merek - certain tools can be crafted with advanced tinkering skills (starting at Tinkering IV)... so at some point players will be able to manufacture enough tools to sustain the market, but we're not there yet.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nanookie, I've been donating gems but the shrine gets maxed out very fast. And what happens when we've finished learning all skills? Will there be any point to donating?

    How about a recycling center instead of vendors then. I could drop off my stuff to get recycled and maybe get energy? Or recycle enough to get a recycler trophy.
    Posted 19 months ago by Fussycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't donate unless I have to; I don't mind slower skill learning. I sell, and I wouldn't want that to go away :(
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bump Alchemy I and II down to II and III.  New Alchemy I converts anything into currants.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • what is probably more feasible is not for the vendors to go away, but for them to have limited inventories based entirely on what is sold to them by players.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know if they should be removed entirely, but maybe they should be spread out and distributed differently. It bugs me when there are three streets next to each other that vend the same thing, but I have to go all the way to a new hub to find what I'm looking for.
    Posted 19 months ago by Essie Kitten Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Where has it been said that vendors are going away completely? I've only seen reference that they would be more sparse, ie not on every street?
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I must be thick, but I'm not sure why we wouldn't want vendors? Some items can only be bought at vendors (mushrooms and parsnips come to mind, honey...many others). I'd just like to see a better distribution really. The Heights has no grocery vendor, which is just maddening. Plus I'd like somewhere with consistent pricing since auctions often aren't...
    Posted 19 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the vendors. It adds some randomness to the game. Vendors give a good reason to start exploring side lanes. I rather run around to find a vendor, than continuously browse auctions page. Few times I just stop by a vendor to buy something I can quickly donate to shrine, or just buy random things that I might use. Few people already turned the auctions into a ridiculously overpriced hub.

    And I think street vendors set this game a bit apart from other mmorpg's where all items are sold only in one place through trading, or items can be available only through user manufacturing. Having a common hub and skilled items is good; but still eliminating vendors will make running through streets a bit boring.
    Posted 19 months ago by gia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Until the auction is searchable and sortable, vendors need to stay.
    I don't love the auction as a system in the world right now, in the first place. Since it is not at all connected to geography (available all the time and from any location), it feels very disconnected from the world and is so much a system to just move material from one far flung region to another. Convenient? Absolutely. But disembodied from the world logic.
    Phasing in vendors that are supplied and run by players intrigues me. I would also love to see vendor prices to begin to change with demand. (And only on items that can be made by players. Anything that cannot be harvested and made should have a fixed price.)
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the vendors should stay its a bit pointless not having them if there is nothing of a certain item on the auction house for days on end. it will stop peoples game play since looking at the recent chat in general people just cry at each other opinions all day. so I dont see much of a fair trade system going on right now. and I dont want to have to deal with people bumping prices of an item thats in demand to some stupid price that is 10000000x the value.
    and right now the auction is a disaster anyway.

    maybe less vendors and spread them out more. or making the vendors change places each game day that would be good.

    but removing them would be removing apart of the actual game. they need to concerntrate on some more *real* multiplayer stuff imo  this game barely holds the term Mmo in its current state
    Posted 19 months ago by Hootaholic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • They are going to remove street vendors, not all NPC vendors. The ones with permanent shops will stay (and more will probably be added, I'm sure).
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would suggest they not replace or remove any vendor until we have a functioning auction system that doesn't reset (by expiration) between every play session.

    I don't think things are stable enough right now to be able to have the turnover that is needed to judge "worth" of consumable items and build a merchant business as a play style that would be needed to help keep the auction house stocked with tools/food/drinks/etc.

    it would take either 24/7 game play or changes to the way auctions expire, or potentially both.
    Posted 19 months ago by Another Chris Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Shepherdmoon, by street vendors, do you mean the guys that roll the carts around and sell pre-made dishes?
    Posted 19 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think I would like to know what we mean by street vendors as well.  
    Personally I used the wood acorn looking vendors all of the time, so I don't think I'd like to see them go.

    Are the vendors Helga, sno cone machine, and level 2 west guy?  hmmm not sure how that would work.  Miners would be forced to learn additional skills or buy from a chef?   Dunno on this one.
    Posted 19 months ago by RainyRain Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The street vendors are the ones on almost every street that hover. I don't think they would get rid of Helga, etc., as they're unique. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Removing all street vendors would require a pretty big change in game play, wouldn't it?  Aren't there quite a few things we need that can *only* be purchased from a vendor?  Honey?  Olive oil?  They would have to add recipes for those.  And aren't there some tools that we are required to buy in the early stages of the game?

    I don't much like the idea of being at the mercy of whatever price the players choose to auction things off at...    And if I feel like gardening but nobody has any seeds for sale, am I just SOL?

    It seems like this would force an interdependence between players, which may be their goal, but there are times, more often than not, that I prefer to putter around and do things on my own.
    Posted 19 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • what a weird thread
    Posted 19 months ago by IxÆoN Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just tried to do a search for the post from the dev that said they will be getting rid of the street vendors, but the forum search function isn't terribly helpful, so I wasn't able to. But, please believe me when I say that I distinctly remember seeing it somewhere: a dev said they will be phasing out the street vendors eventually, and moving more towards permanent stores (like the one that currently exists in IX). Now, I don't think that we're even close to being able to do this right now, but it is their goal to do it by the time the game goes live. 

    My take on that is that they want stores to be rarer: there will be one or two per area, and that's it; not a vendor on every single street like there is now. This will encourage people to use the auctions more, but they will still have the option to travel to the stores if they would prefer to use them. 

    Also, there are items available only in stores/by vendors now (like oil and honey), but there is a good chance we will be able to make those ourselves in the future. This is only beta, and there are alot of cool additions to come! I'm looking forward to olive trees and bee hives, if that really is in our future... I hope so!
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Striatic + sheperdmoon-Here is a link that has a few comments from the devs:
    Link
    Posted 19 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, well.   If there are still stores and I still have the option to buy from them, rather than from the auction, I don't mind the extra travel to get there.   I'll just be better about making a shopping list! <g>
    Posted 19 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes - vendors are going to become much more sparse, and stores will take their place.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Allow players to have permanent stores with some sort of vending machines that allow customers to buy goods even when the owner is not in the store. And allow players to find or make every single item in the game (such as beer, olive oil, etc..) In fact I'd love to make beer. :)

    Then you can do away with NPC stores.
    Posted 19 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really like Lord Bacon-O's comment to have store inventory/prices be influenced by what players are selling and buying, especially if there was a listing of what the current global prices were. Then players could determine what there was a need for and make those items to sell to vendors or via auctions.

    Obviously we still have a long way to go before vendors can be removed, the auction system needs a lot of work and almost all of the items sold by grocery vendors need a system to make or harvest.

    The fact that parsnip seeds don't exist tells me the devs see (at least some) vendors sticking around for quite some time.
    Posted 19 months ago by Zaphod Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think Shepherdmoon may be looking for this thread, or this comment from around that time.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • People are worried about having to pay "whatever players want to charge for an item." Bear in mind, a free market economy tends to converge on whatever is the most ideal price for an item, based on the current amount of seller and potential buyers. This can mean a price less than the currently set price, or more.

    Of course, this won't work with the current system, we need a whole lot more players. And some big changes need to be made.

    1. Players need to be able to make or collect all of the items that are currently sold by vendors this still includes:
      * Machine parts
      * most of what is sold at grocery vendors
      * A whole bunch of hardware and tools

    2. Some pretty huge changes to the auction system including:

    - Allowing players to post item requests as well as auctions
    - Rather than showing a set price for an item, show the best offer available, or perhaps the average price. I'm not sure which would be better.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tofu Casserole Subscriber! | Permalink
  • AHhh i see now... so a few stores will replace vendors.  I don't see that being such a big deal.  If there is at least an option other than the auctions, then that is great .. for me at least.

    I do find it amusing that I often find references to how the game should reflect more of real life (please take no offense tofu at all! it happens everywhere :) )   Personally, I play silly games to get away from the realities of.. er life :)  lol
    Posted 19 months ago by RainyRain Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't see a reason to get rid of *all* vendors, as long as everything necessary remains available somewhere, somehow.  Of course, I also like the idea of players being able to open their *own* stores or being the ones to be able to *stock* the vendors with what they make.
    Posted 19 months ago by Hazmat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Seriously, if we get olive trees (for making olive oil and assorted dressings) and honey bees (for making honey), seeds for ALL vegetables, and mushrooms that grow under rocks or next to bogs or something, AND if the new region has some actual water where we can maybe go fishing for salmon, and there's a skill tree for making alcohol (beer and hooch) then I think we could feasibly get rid of vendors.
    Eventually.
    We still need tool stores for sure, because otherwise how would we do anything at the start of the game?
    Posted 19 months ago by Jhennauchan Subscriber! | Permalink