Topic

can we just settle this. family game or not?

i can't really find an official definition for what a family game is or not, but i mean, it's essentially the same as a 'family film' in regards to the use of language. so, while 'family game' doesn't have an objective definition (yet), 'family film' does. it's "a film genre that is designed to appeal to a variety of age groups and, thus, families." i think we all agree that the game appeals to many age groups. i suppose we could also agree that the game is PG-13 considering that a player must be 13 years or older to play (with parental consent). films typically are upgraded to PG-13 from PG when language is used sparingly (generally, less than 4 times) or the movie is especially violent. note that Glitch never uses language and is never violent, so the game really should be PG or even G. Certainly, it would be rated E for everyone with a disclaimer that they cannot control the content experienced online.  

ultimately though, the game has parallels with a family film that's rated PG-13. and as such, we shouldn't use language. 

thank you for your time.

(edit: ToS says 14 years or older, so I guess PG-14 would be more accurate.)

Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Lol Sheepy!

    * stomps some more *

    It's like grapes in hell! ;)
    Posted 15 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow. This is a pretty hot topic. After a page I stopped reading for fear that my head may explode. lol

    That said, I personalyI don't don't let my kids play. It's my game and I don't want to share. Also, I don't really feel it is appropriate for them. Although they may not get the inuendo, they will soon enough. Then again, I don't let my kids do anything online without me hovering over them and who has the time for that. Everyone has to make whatever choises are right for there family.

    Side note: My son loves cars. Anything that has to so with cars or racing. My husband and I used to play grand theft auto after the kids went to bed. My son "caught" us when he was around 2. He desperatly wanted to drive the car. Me and hubby decided it would be OK to let him drive the car around as long the volume was off. So we let him play a bit. Then one day as I walk back into the room, he beat up a hooker and stole her money. Obviously, he did not play the game again. He is 7 now and still remembers that. I am a lot more careful now. Darn hookers....always in the way of good clean fun. LOL
    Posted 15 months ago by megan76 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've read lots of threads in the forums and I can't think of any other conversation that has made me have less respect for the players of Glitch than this one.  I still love the game but I'm pretty disappointed at all the troll feeding and mean/sarcasm. 

    Fail.
    Posted 15 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Fleep
    Posted 15 months ago by Live Your Dreams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not exactly forum savy so forgive what may be a dumb question....I keep seeing the term troll thrown around and I have no Idea what that means. If someone would explain I would appriciate it. I seem to be the only person who doesn't get it.
    Posted 15 months ago by megan76 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • troll
    One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a forum or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Trolls need food too.  How do you think they get those cute little chubby bellies?  Those gems only look cute in a tubby tummy
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks wind, makes perfect scense now.
    Posted 15 months ago by megan76 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +āˆž Fleep.

    Imagine what could be accomplished if we didn't let our egos dictate what we post.
    Posted 15 months ago by malo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • longest
    Posted 15 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • thread
    Posted 15 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ever!!!
    Posted 15 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @malo: but would couldn't be accomplished is a 5-page thread.
    Posted 15 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think flask wins some kind of awesome award for this quote....

    "if three people call you an ass, put on a saddle."
    Posted 15 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To Fleep and others who say this thread has made you lose respect for the Glitch community.  I couldn't disagree with you more.  I can no longer remember everything that has been written in the nearly 1000 posts, and I haven't read all of page 4, but I only recall 2 or 3 posters who were genuinely nasty, disrespectful, out of line.  Do those 2 or 3 people (or even if it were 6 or 8) represent the 4000 players in Glitch to you?  Sure there was a huge amount of sarcasm and fun-poking, but Dawgg asked for it and, unless you believe he was totally and humbly sincere (which seems most unlikely given the evidence of how much griefing he has done), then he fully deserved to be treated with sarcasm and wit.  By the time we get to page 2 the thread had really ceased to be anything other than a vehicle for spontaneous jokes and clever repartee (with the occasional still-serious post thrown in).  Can you actually point me to an online community where a deliberately disruptive post such as Dawgg's would have been treated with no disrespect whatsoever?  Where not even a  few would reply with venom and crudeness?  Just how perfectly lily-white does the Glitch community need to be to win your respect?
    Posted 15 months ago by Hawkwell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I dunno who's right and who's wrong but this is boring now.  I don't like obnoxious language, but I use at least two languages every day, every once in a while I use three or four languages. 

    I also don't monitor most chat channels because I have to deal with rude people in the Real World (although mostly I get to ask them to desist or leave the classroom, or the establishment of business, or wherever - if that makes me a bad person sobeit...) and I don't want or have to deal with it in my escape worlds.

    I've used a few choice words in my day, like when the 3 pound sledge fell on my foot, but I try not to ruin other peoples lives with my choices.  I would be annoyed if someone blew smoke in my face at a nice restaurant where I was eating with my wife or friends, likewise I would be annoyed if the person at the next table was graphically describing his or her latest conquest rich in adjectives and four letter words.

    My feeling is mostly of sympathy for someone whose every other word almost literally is f--- or mf, like the old guy who ran the repair side of the gas station in my home town "whall thet lil f----r there is really f----d up what we need is to get a f----g wrench on that bitch and see thet the f----r can't be loosened up. If not your f----d, have to buy a new f-----n... "and on and on and on.  The guy was a great apple-tree mechanic, but he never progressed beyond 10th grade and his vocabulary was severely limited.  I wonder what he was like at home if his business was run that way.

    For an educated person to resort to that kind of language is mind-boggling to me.  With the vast richness of human languages, and the American English language especially with its vampire-like tendency to swallow other language's words into itself, why are we having hundreds of posts on whether or not it is ok to utilize four-letter words?   You can say whatever you desire to say in much richer detail without resorting to Carlin's monologue - which I laughed at when he delivered it as much as did the next person.

    You may certainly use the seven words that one cannot say on TV (although South Park does)  it is your right.  It may even be appropriate in the proper context. It is anyone else's right to ignore you when you do you,  even a friend may send a "hey that's not cool..." 

    I nominate this for the thread that would not die... And I am helping the zombie shamble onward I realize...

    I am ready for the game to open if only to allow this thing to come to it's end.  Besides threads usually end when I post ;p

    ~~TJ Fuzzybutt

    PS: Open the link in a new window to avoid having to use the back button.
    Posted 15 months ago by Thaddeus J Fuzzybut Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have to toss my hat in with @Hawkwell on this one. While I think Mr. Dawgg's ideas are pretty poorly thought out and definitely a minority opinion, which I don't agree with, it's not right to be mean to him. In my opinion saying FUCK YOU to him, as was done by a player I will not name pages back, would be mean.

    HOWEVER, derailing the discussion after you've already put in your ideas for consideration and had them shot down? As long as you are keeping within reasonable bounds I think that's reasonableish. Yes, I would say it's better to move that to a different thread and allow Mr. Dawgg to argue his point as he sees fit. Which did happen at least once.

    So while, as a community and myself as an individual within said community, we did not handle this with the poise we could have... I'd give us a 6.5/10. On the whole pretty good, but some of us weren't at our best.
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eureka, Hmm. No it doesn't have to be a family game, but look at it. It looks like a kiddie game at first glance. Do you anticipate what happened to PP to happen to Glitch?

    I get what you're saying here, I think. Because it looks like it's for kids, it will attract kids and thus should live up to kid expectations because it looks kiddish. Is that close?

    The thing is, a furry/plushy convention also would seem, by outward appearances (I imagine, I've never been to one), that it should be appropriate for the family because it looks kiddie centric. What kid doesn't like to get a hug or autograph from a giant fuzzy something or other right? Or furry purple dinosaur videos COULD get confused with Barney when parents are distracted and looking for something on youtube for their kids. Anyway, my point is, sometimes things CAN look family/kid oriented while being accepted as entirely inappropriate for families and kids and that's ok.

    Marketing is an issue here. If Glitch runs ads like neopets on nick/nick.com/teennick.com, then there would be a family appropriateness expectation factor. I do NOT think Tiny Speck will be doing this. In fact, I'd be willing to put money on that.

    I'm kind of getting from your reply that maybe you're saying since it does look so cute, it should be family friendly, like there's not many family friendly things out there (neither putting words in your mouth nor speaking from experience, just a guess here), so why waste something with possibility on being an adult world. For me (and probably a lot of people), the answer to that is the fun is the naughtiness behind the cute veneer. Take away the cute veneer, and the game loses something. Take away the naughtiness behind it, and the game ALSO loses something. It's a package.

    I hope I didn't put words in your mouth or attribute to you things you weren't saying. (also, to reiterate, in my initial and subsequent replies, it was never about language, I just took your idea and went a step further. I honestly don't give a toss about inappropriate vs. appropriate language. Poor grammar and text speak is more jarring to me than the "F" word).

    Regarding the puzzle pirates part of your question, I don't know if I anticipate that... well, maybe I'm being generous to say I don't know if I anticipate that. I can say absolutely that I do hope that experience is not replicated.
    Posted 15 months ago by Eureka Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We see and interpret the information given as best we can. There are several mitigating factors involved in how we process. Our educational level. Socioeconomic background.  Our cultural origin and upbringing. Because you have used the term "lily-white" should I infer that you are poking fun of my indigenous heritage? Are you calling me a wagon burner?

    Context is everything. You could wonder to yourself how I could extrapolate such from your statement; I could wonder to myself how you could even go there. We are not perfect. We all fall short of the glory. It would be facetious for me to take offense at anything you posted there Hawker, but we both know how perception is.

    Deliberately disruptive post or sincere post, at one point does one decide to chuck all sense of decorum and dignity? Troll post? Why bite? Surely there is something more constructive to do with your time. Sarcasm and fun-poking cease to be funny and in good spirit once the play turns to malicious behaviour. Whether warranted or not, we should rise above that kind of mindset- that it is okay to harass someone if everyone else is doing it, that they were "asking for it", that we're bored. I can't believe in good conscience that there is anything remotely witty about cracking on someones learning disabilities. I'm sorry; I'm just wired differently from you. If you call me out I'll give you my opinion. We're all adults. We know right from wrong. 

    In the end, it's just my opinion anyway. Nothing to get upset about. A singular instance where I chose to open up my heart and speak directly about what is on my mind. No pseudo-self getting in the way. No ego compelling me to pile on and go with the flow so I can fit in. Just me and my view of these recent events.

    So let's get to it then. Can I point you to an online community where something like this wouldn't have transpired? Why bother? Get real and give your head a shake. Do I want the community here to imitate and incorporate the behaviour of 4chan or Somethingawful? I believe that I have made it clear, and posted many times here previously, that I love this place precisely because we don't stoop to such levels for our "entertainment". Do I hold this community to a higher standard than that of Fark or Stileproject or Deadspin? I reckon I do, given the intelligence and good nature of most of the people I have had the pleasure to meet here in my time. I realize that's my hangup, and I may be expecting too much. I can live with that. I can accept that. However, I would defend every single one of you if I felt that you were being subjected to harassment. Without exception. No matter the causation. Whether it is deemed justified via mob mentality or not. I would like to point out however that I indeed could point out many communities where this wouldn't have happened. You're mistaking the benefit of having no moderation/guidlines and equating that to acceptance.

    Now, as for "how perfectly lily-white does the community need to be to win my respect"? Easy. Every time I set foot inside the game someone stops to ask me how I'm doing. If I need anything. If I would like to be friends. If I want to trade. If I can spare a moment to talk. If I would like to help dig some peat. It is so easy to win my respect. With that respect comes friendship. With that friendship comes loyalty. It is somewhat akin to an ouroboros, as far as how I would mentally picture it. Easy to win and extremely hard to lose. Kindness and righteousness propagate better returns than arrogance and ego-centric behaviour. 

    ..and before I get called out on who am I to interpret right or wrong or what constitutes righteous behaviour, save it. I'm not a judge. I don't expect any single individual here to have to imitate my own actions or adopt my point of view. I wouldn't ask, either.         

     

      
    Posted 15 months ago by malo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is Glitch a family game or not?
    Posted 15 months ago by Adidas Demon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not as far as anyone can tell.  If it is, it's a very well hidden aspect that TS isn't letting us know about.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You can't read this thread as something homogeneus. It changed from day to day.

    At some point we all saw the OP as being obnoxious and provocative, trollish. At that point it seemed natural to answer dismissively, even agressively.

    After that things changed. There was a moment (I believe it was in page 3) when I felt unconfortable with the situation, and said so. After that, several of us tried to bring this to a pacific end. Mostly we succeded, but not completely. Page 4 is mainly entertainment without harassment or abuse, and serious posts which as far as I remember were not agressive.

    I don't regret any of my posts here, but I certainly wasn't a main player in this. Anyway, I don't find much to criticize in others, although I would like some posts to not have happened at all.

    What I ask is: Please don't judge the posters for what transpired along the last few hundred posts. At the beginning of the thread we didn't know as much as we do now, in regard to the topic, to secondary topics and to the OP himself.

    (Sorry if I sound stiff in my writing. I'm not an English native speaker and I find it difficult to express these kind of things with more fluidity, as I would in Spanish.)
    Posted 15 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm the 973th post on the 4th page...we totally "just settled this". Go team.
    Posted 15 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Out of curiosity, how many threads does it take before a forum post gets a "second page"?
    Posted 15 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are 250 posts to a page.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks!
    Posted 15 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This post is extremely long. Sorry. Bolded names to hi light for those who might just want to read my response to them.

    Sheepy,

    "@Mr. Dawgg: The rules of etiquette are social norms. Social norms are based on culture. Culture varies by region, ethnicity, class, and so on. Assuming that everyone else believes in the same rules of etiquette as those you grew up with, in the region you reside within, is ethnocentric. Suggesting that the social norms within a multicultural/internationally played game should follow those you grew up with is ethnocentric.  Believing that "everyone follows a social norm in which foul language is unacceptable" because you grew up with such a norm is ethnocentric. It's that simple."

    I never said that. Please be careful with the use of quotation marks. Thank you. If I did, I couldn't find the post. If paraphrased, you're taking it outof context with all due respect. I 100% agree that many people are going to have different backgrounds and social norms. Again, someone asked me what my social norms were. Where I was from. I answered. That's why I brought up the ones that I have. But. Let me reframe this for you. I am not saying we should all assimilate and become one social norm. I am suggesting that because of the premise that there are people who play the game who read GC were socialized in a way that says we shouldn't have language there, those of us who are not socialized that way should accommodate them. I also said that I would bank on it that most of us who play (if not all of us) were socialized in a way that was anti-language in public. Does that makes sense? I hope I explained myself as best I could to you. 

    Eureka,

    Firstly, you do not have to walk on eggshells at all when talking to me. But thank you for being considerate and making sure of things.  I'm going to do the quote then reply method for replying to you.

    "I get what you're saying here, I think. Because it looks like it's for kids, it will attract kids and thus should live up to kid expectations because it looks kiddish. Is that close?"

    Spot on.

    "The thing is, a furry/plushy convention also would seem, by outward appearances (I imagine, I've never been to one), that it should be appropriate for the family because it looks kiddie centric. What kid doesn't like to get a hug or autograph from a giant fuzzy something or other right? Or furry purple dinosaur videos COULD get confused with Barney when parents are distracted and looking for something on youtube for their kids. Anyway, my point is, sometimes things CAN look family/kid oriented while being accepted as entirely inappropriate for families and kids and that's ok. "

    I love that analogy. Made me go 'wow, she's right.' Though once they start yiffing the notion that it would appear family-oriented is completely bunked. Also, many furries are known to also be into wearing diapers. The smell at a furry gathering can be quite off-putting. This is neither here nor there, but just for the sake of discussion, I'm sharing this TMI content.

    "Marketing is an issue here. If Glitch runs ads like neopets on nick/nick.com/teennick.com, then there would be a family appropriateness expectation factor. I do NOT think Tiny Speck will be doing this. In fact, I'd be willing to put money on that."

    I agree completely. But, at the same time. The brand manager sees his numbers are down, and he beseeches the team to change marketing strategies. The game could easily be marketed to a younger crowd. It allows them to play, why not market to them? Again, I'm not saying they will or that they should. I just think it's a feasible scenario. 

    "I'm kind of getting from your reply that maybe you're saying since it does look so cute, it should be family friendly, like there's not many family friendly things out there (neither putting words in your mouth nor speaking from experience, just a guess here), so why waste something with possibility on being an adult world. For me (and probably a lot of people), the answer to that is the fun is the naughtiness behind the cute veneer. Take away the cute veneer, and the game loses something. Take away the naughtiness behind it, and the game ALSO loses something. It's a package. "


    To me, the naughtiness is so tame that it doesn't seem that adult to me. I guess that's another disconnect here. Many see the adult themes as very adult whereas I see them as very tame and not really that risque at all. I also look at the ToS and see that it does allow 14+ to play. I see Free to Play with a 'cute veneer,' and I anticipate that it will greatly appeal to that age group. Free to Plays do not appeal to adults who have no real issue paying a sub. FtP appeals to kids who can't.

    "I hope I didn't put words in your mouth or attribute to you things you weren't saying. (also, to reiterate, in my initial and subsequent replies, it was never about language, I just took your idea and went a step further. I honestly don't give a toss about inappropriate vs. appropriate language. Poor grammar and text speak is more jarring to me than the "F" word)."

    For me, it's not so much that I care about language use, as much as I care about higher standards and principle. Poor grammar doesn't bother me either though. It probably should, but I give people the benefit of the doubt. Quick anecdote. A few very intelligent people I know are very poor at grammar. One of them is an airplane mechanic, but the guy just can't structure a sentence. Speaks very intelligently face to face, but his e-mails are horrendous. So, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt in regards to their grammar.

    "Regarding the puzzle pirates part of your question, I don't know if I anticipate that... well, maybe I'm being generous to say I don't know if I anticipate that. I can say absolutely that I do hope that experience is not replicated."

    We'll find out soon enough.

    Quirk,

    I know you're not going to read this, but just in case you can't help yourself again. :D

    In the other thread, I said, "IIRC" (if I remember correctly), and in this thread I used the word 'some.' I didn't specify anyone. I tried to find the post, but you know what, it might have been on another message board entirely. The reason I even remember it all was because it was such an extreme comparison. My point was that... like griefing to me is just teasing/messing around, but then at the other end of the spectrum people define it as a very grave, horrid act. I wasn't trying to prove anything or slander anyone at all. Does that make sense? I hope so. So, I guess I shouldn't use the word griefing. I was thinking about that today. I'll say I am a teaser/messer-arounder-wither. I very much am that. But I certainly don't try to Internet mind rape people. Which brings me to my reply to Geeki Yogini.

    Geeki Yogini,

    Yes, I tell everyone to read that. Great, great article.

    Malo,

    I said this in another thread in response to one of your posts, but you truly are eloquent. I hope that doesn't sound sycophantic or anything. I'm trying to play it cool, but it was important to me to let you know what I thought.

    I'm picking up what you're putting down about not being a judge or jury. I dig that. Looking back, in many ways I see now why people would interpret me as trying to force a way on them. In my mind, I was just suggesting it with good reason as backup. Like I said, I'm a pretty laid back guy, but I can be judgmental about things. Maybe when something seems so self-evident to me, I need to step back and remind myself that there are many answers. 

    Further, unlike you though, I'm not graceful. I'm brash. I tend try to put things where they go. For me, principle can make me put on blinders to the bigger picture. So, I maybe need to work on that.

    Thank you for your post. It reflects many of the things I was thinking, but couldn't put into words.

    On This Thread as a Troll
    I think people misunderstand what 'a troll' is. A troll is not an individual. It is an act of trolling. Trolling like one would while fishing. The analogy is baiting people into a flame war vs baiting fish into a school. 

    For the record, I agree, in many ways, that this thread could be seen as a troll[1]. However, it was never my intent for this to go on this long [2]. I legitimately wanted to settle the matter. In that, I feel we have. Also, I admit (and have admitted) that the means to the end (comparison to film) was a flawed strategy. I should have probably focused more on what others suggested. For examples, someone suggested that the discussion be about the essence of politeness. We also talked a bit about social norms. Perhaps, instead of talking about family gamedome at all, I should have focused on the eclectic group factor which was the main focus of the premise. Things like that. Those all might have been better angles. 

    [1], I want to note that I never flamed anyone. I was always polite and said thank you[3]. I replied to people not to flame them but to respond and talk to them. This contrasts to what would happen during a troll. Where the posts would involve language that was provocative. Another thing is that I would reply to defend my opinion. Or I would reply to clarify or rephrase. Now, I also would come-off as condescending about things like what I felt was a dumb joke. I still think the joke about language was dumb. No offense Stewart or others who made that joke. It just wasn't funny to me, and it got old fast.

    [2], Because I replied to everyone, it may seem like I intended for it to go on for much longer. Let me explain this. Originally, I just made the thread, and after I got about 5? smart-allecky responses, I just went away. I came back like a day and a half later, and the thread was very long and still at the top of the forum. 

    To my surprise, some people had defended me and said the people were responding in unjust ways. Even Stewart himself had posted something along these lines. The quote is in an earlier post of mine on this page. So, cool. So, In any event, I replied a single reply to all of the posts. I had read them all, and I highlighted several of the main points of contention. Club Penguin comparison, 'for adults' claim, and something else. I felt I ably, fairly explained why these didn't debunk my premise. For some reason, this post aggravated everyone immensely because rather than just agree that the game wasn't a family game, I didn't see that my premise (family game = wide audience game) was ever debunked. So, I was waiting for someone to debunk my premise. This didn't happen til much later in the thread when Quirk did two things. 

    First, he further defined what a family game ought to be. I agreed with his idea. I also provided my opinion on why I felt that Glitch could fall into all 4 of his requirements. The main thing though was that he made it clear that item #3 was the most important requirement. The requirement 3 was that the game be marketed as a family game. I agreed to this, but noted that there was no marketing for the game. So, a page later, Quirk finds a post describing the market for the game being not family oriented. At this point, he had debunked my premise, and I agreed that it wasn't a family game. Though, I still contend that they could, feasibly market the game as a family game. I don't care or not if they do, but it's feasible in my opinion.

    Ok. Furtheremore for 2. I kinda explained it on the first page, but I replied to each individual because, in my mind, I was being the arbiter of my thread. My thread being defined as the thread I started. In the absence of moderators, who better to arbiter a thread than the person who started it?

    My point is that I wasn't replying to people simply to keep the thread going for the sake of it becoming this long. I was replying to people for the sake of settling it. I was replying to let those who replied to me know that I listened and to let them know they had my attention. I always said thank you, and I never flamed anyone.

    [3], I ran into a problem in another thread where I unintentionally made an inflammatory post. In that thread, my mind's voice was jokey while still being confrontational. To others that read it, they interpreted (rightfully so, I said in hindsight) it as being too mean. By the end of that thread, I apologized for it, and agreed I would be more tactful in future threads. I feel I was quite tactful in this thread if I say so myself.

    Thanks for reading if you did.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Mr. Dawgg:  I think that not having kids or not being responsible for kids sometimes dulls our perceptions of what is "naughty" for certain age groups.

    I was horrified (horrified!) to hear that my 6-year-old girl cousin, whom I have known and babysat for since she was teeny, picked up a birthday card at the store, with a picture of a hot firefighter on it, and said, "Oooh, he's sexy!"

    I wanted to beat reason into the heads of the adults who see her most often than I, that this is not appropriate language for a 6-yo, and where the hell did she pick that up, anyway?

    Likewise, references to "getting wood," "happy endings," etc. might go sailing over the little ones' heads, but they will repeat it and work it into their vocabulary.  Based on reactions, they will know when to say it to get the best (as in, most horrified, or most amused) reaction.  They do this.  My 2-year-old sister told toilet jokes because it made my mom laugh so hard she cried.  She laughed because they made no sense (why was the house in a toilet?  Because it was a toilet!), but it was the laughter that made the kid keep going.

    Similarly, I know a 9 year old who started singing the "K-I-S-S-I-N-G" song, and started saying "Mommy and Auntie sitting in a tree..." simply because it horrified the rest of us.  See, we thought that a 9-yo would know what that song implied, and it turned out, she didn't.  She just did it to get a rise.  

    I suppose what I'm trying to say here is... parents will be horrified if Daddy says to Mommy, "Would you like me to put lotion on your back?" and kiddo says, "Are you giving her a happy ending?"

    It would happen.  Someone would sue.  

    And so, no, not appropriate despite the cute factor.  I agree with the furry/South Park/etc. analogies.  In fact, my mother banned "The Simpsons" for a looooong time because she thought it was too risque for us kids, and that dad watching it would tempt us into watching with him.  Which we did anyway, when she was out.  But we never said anything, and we never once filed a complaint with the station, because we were breaking a higher rule... That of the woman who fed us.

    Note that none of those animated-for-adults shows do not air commercials for kiddie things, nor do they air commercials for them during kiddie shows.  I don't think that Glitch will ever have kiddie-type ads, or ads on kiddie sites, for the same reason.  :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Family game or not, it doesn't matter. That is just a curtain to hide behind.
    Should adults only behave themselves when kids (or young adults) are around? Or should they also be respectfull & behave when there are only other "adults" around?
    I hope the latter.

    No, I do not think that because of an absense of a profanity filter we are allowed to swear. Do people really want everything written down in law of rules? What about values and morals? Those should be unwritten, although difficult with this large a community. But come on, would you, in a strange country where you don't know if it's acceptable or not, go around putting swearwords in every sentence?

    And about leaving a chat in which abusive language is used: So the "victim" is required to leave?
    Sure, there is a limit to how much people shoul adapt to others.
    How much does it hurt the swearer to swear less vs how much does it hurt the listener when there is swearing.

    To some, those swearwords are not "just" words. They have heavier meaning, or aren't as common as they are around you/for you. Being an adult isn't to just do as you please, it means you are mature enough to think about your actions and that you can be considerate to people around you (as opposed to kids who are still learning this).
    Posted 15 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch is PG-13 at most.  This game is scrupulous about not showing violence.  I wouldn't have problems with my own kids (if I had any) playing, but someone who feels the need to shelter their kids might.  That's why there is a market for V-chips, etc. 

    I seriously doubt any child who plays for an hour or a day is going to be corrupted or harmed for life or even temporarily or cause them to not be good adults.  I played Leisure Suit Larry as a pre-teen, and I turned out okay.
    Posted 15 months ago by Gizgazzuz Guziz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I played Leisure Suit Larry as a pre-teen, and I turned out okay.

    That's got to be one of the best justifications for "language" that I've seen in this thread.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Miriamele, that's what I'm talkin bout.

    Eliza, interesting anecdotes. For fun, here's one from my fam. My nephews, when they were little, when around their parents, they behaved like little monsters and cursed like truck drivers. When they came to my house, they knew my mother wasn't going to stand for it. So they were 'angels.' Interestingly, when one was in school, he was considered one of the most polite and outstanding students in his class. At home, he was like this whirlwind of terror. Very interesting that  he knew what society expected of him yet could behaved differently at home. As a young adult, he still is really polite and asks before doing anything at grandma's house. He loves his mom, but he doesn't give her any respect.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My family is the opposite.  We're all considered relatively normal outside of the family, but bring one of the "adults" in?  Especially my dad?  You would think we've never seen any part of life.  No drinking, no talk of drinking, no offering someone an alcoholic beverage even if they're a grandparent, no mention of sex, abortion, or birth control in any but a "What is this politician's stance on this?" manner... I could go on.

    Even mildly naughty word?  Oh hell no!  You can say "shit" and the like, but god forbid you even mention a massage in any sense of the word!  

    My friends in high school felt the need to protect me, and would not allow me to watch South Park for fear that my ears would fall off.  I didn't know the alternate meaning to "queer" and "freak" until way later in life.
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • On a personal level, I feel this a mature game, not necessarily family. There are some undertones and in-jokes that I think adults will most certainly get, and I feel that while there are those things, it's not done in an obscene manner, so it can probably be used under adult supervision by young teens, if such an environment was an issue for a parent.

    While I am normally a staunch supporter of all language is good language, including strong language, in Glitch it doesn't seem right, at least on my part. That's not because I think there are children around, but it's because it just doesn't seem appropriate in a world with such a strong sense of community and closeness.
    Posted 15 months ago by Saiclick Maximus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Saiclick, well said.

    Eliza, I almost never use language. When I do, people guffaw and are like whaaaat. Hehe. Oh and! My 5th grade teacher, who I was friends with well past 5th grade. He passed away a few years ago though. In any event, he tried to take back queer to its original meaning. So, I try to honor him by saying queer only to mean strange. Which might sound queer, but whatev. ;p
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "On a larger moral view, a study that showed that people who consider themselves very moral can become very bad cheats, because they believe their high virtue exempts them from the rules that apply to ordinary folk. "
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok, so part of me does not want to reply to this thread again, but the other part hopes that TS is still paying attention to this issue as a whole. I'm not even sure who is stilling reading this thread at this point, So:
    After taking a few days to think about the whole thing and to play a bit since official launch, I have another view of the game and this topic. 

    Just to clarify, my thoughts on this game is still that it is for adults and that children should not be allowed to play (for mainly selfish reasons lol)

    First, I reread alot of the thread and think that maybe at least on a subconscious level, Mr Dawgg wasn't really asking us as players if this was a family game, he was more posing the question to TS specifically.  Meaning, he wanted them to maybe pop in and say what their idea of where the game was going to go.  Especially in the marketing sense.  We testers (who I assume are all 17+) mostly agree that there is adult content and innuendos in the game, but regardless of this and what ToS stated, I think Mr Dawgg wanted to know if TS planned to market this to the general public.  And if that was the case, regardless of what the ToS says at start up, anyone can log on .  I forget (since its been awhile) if there was a check box stating "yes I am above 17" or whatever, but even if there was , how hard is it for a younger person to check it?

    Since the game has launched, I read alot, if not all of the articles regarding launch and nowhere in any of them does it specifically say the game is for adults 17+.  And then I read that you can "connect" via facebook.  I don't have facebook so I'm not sure exactly how this works, but that really adds to my concern that young people are going to access this game easily and regularly. (again, my concern is from a selfish, "I don't want to share" attitude, not that kids might be reading inappropriate content- this is not my problem, it's their parents who should be watching them)

    There is also a post from a newbie (and well written IMO) regarding their first impressions of the game.  Their opinion really reflects alot of points Mr. Dawgg made.  They mention how the game may be difficult or confusing for children (paraphrasing).  This just proves how easy it is to access Glitch and not be aware of the "adult" content or not be aware the game is for adults.  The newbie either didn't read the part about the age restriction or it is not made clear enough at the sign up.
    TS really needs to address this, not us as users.  TS needs to decide where they want this game to go and make it clear from the minute you sign up.
    I really hope that they make it very clearly for adults, because I do not want to play another game with children.  I will be very disappointed if the begging starts and the lag becomes horrendous due to kids just standing around wasting space or whatever.  I signed up for what was obvious to me an adult game, I paid a subscription for an adult game, I believe I am entitled to what I paid for.  I will not continue to play if this game goes they way another did (that I might point out failed & closed).  I also think that although marketing to all ages would get more users, marketing specifically to adults and enforcing this, would get more paying users.  I can pretty much guarantee that kids under 17 will not pay for a subscription.  And adults put off by the kids, will leave the game.

    So @Mr. Dawgg, on this point, I do think I understand your side a bit better. (or maybe I'm still way off!!) Regardless I think we all would like a firm answer on this from the powers that be.

    Now as for the "language" issue.  Again, I understand the point Mr Dawgg was trying to make about should we use foul language just because we can?  Well, no, I don't think we should run amok spouting expletives, but I don't think its up to other players to tell us what to do either.  (Asking us to refrain however is perfectly fine and understandable!)  Again, this is something TS needs to address.
     
    Another site I play on, if you type specific words, your post won't even show up.  That's how they sensor.  The problem with that is some posts won't post at all because the censor thinks they are bad.
    -i.e. priceless-whats bad about that word??
    -muffins-well I sort of get this one, but really???
    -and anything where one word ends in "sh" and the next word is "it" or starts with "it"
    Sometimes this gets frustrating when trying to communicate.  Not to mention people find creative ways to write offensive words buy using other letters or symbols ($hit, B00b, cex, @$$).

    I don't usually type "bad words" anyway because they are not necessary to what ever point I'm trying to make in Glitch.  ("can you help me dig pls?"  If I add a curse word, that's just more things I need to type and by then whomever I'm addressing is usually gone!!  LOL)  I just think that alot of the anger in this thread came from:
    -The way the topic was changed by the OP from family game to a language debate
    - And in my perspective the way the OP seemed to not be willing to see others POV's, at least not until page 4.

    As for the "griefing" and "troll" issue (in this specific thread), I personally am a very sarcastic person.  Sarcasm tends to lighten up many potentially negative situations.  Stoots post about "language" I thought was cute, but Mr. Dawgg did not.  Some people don't understand sarcasm or like it, especially when they are talking about something they are passionate about.  But also some people use sarcasm to make themselves more comfortable in what they may sense is becoming an uncomfortable situation.  They are trying to lighten the mood up a bit.  For me personally, I also use what may come across as sarcastic to make points that I really mean. 
    For example, in this very post I mentioned I don't like sports.  I was not lying!!  I cannot stand competitive sports.  I hate how ugly competition can make alot of people.  I don't watch sports, I think they are boring (aside from going to a live hockey game), I don't participate in sports.  The closest thing to competition I get is a board game.  Maybe that's because I'm a small person who was picked last her whole life or my fear of being injured (paper cut!!!  call 911), but regardless it makes me uncomfortable being in those situations.  I do however have a best pal who is a football coach for a local college.  Football is by far my least favorite sport, but to support my friend I have gone to a game.  So to show you I am not rambling, this shows I am willing to compromise and to see other points of view to make others happy.
     I think maybe that is why I got so annoyed with Mr Dawgg, because he was coming across as very closed minded and seemed he was disagreeing to incense others.

    Emails, blog posts, threads, etc., become very dangerous since "emotion" is almost impossible to put onto a written document.  So I think all of us should try and remember that the person writing maybe means things completely different then they come across on the page.  We should all try our hardest to not take offense as easily to to these replys.  Even the off topics ones about marching bands, cheese or whatever they may be.

    I apologize to everyone if anything I posted in this thread or another may have been offensive in anyway.   I also invite anyone who agrees or disagrees with something I said to let me know.  I am very open to suggestions and try to help people or mediate as best I possible can.

    Also, I think Mr Dawgg and Eliza Thornybur should start a debate group, since they are both very thorough in their replies and very passionate about their povs.

    In closing (whew this is waaaay to long) TS PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE make it clear to everyone who this game is for, so that everyone playing can be on the same page.  Thank you so much for reading.
    Posted 15 months ago by Gadzooks Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gadzooks, not all beta testers were +17. I know of several who weren't, just off hand, and probably quite a few others were playing in a style that never brought their age into question.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I didn't want to reply to this thread any more, but Gadzooks, I firstly want to apologize to you if I offended or bugged you in any of my posts. I will not detail my issues, but detecting sarcasm in texts is quite difficult for me. I have a very matter fact approach to things, and sarcasm is difficult for me to interpret. Unless strong voice inflection is used, I often do not pick up on it. So online, it is a magnified problem in that there is no opportunity for voice inflection at all.

    Spot-on about wanting TS to say something. I actually said that twice. That I hoped someone from TS would settle it. But I, and a few others, concluded that they will not settle it for us. Why? Creating the subculture is, at the very core, a part of playing the game. Though, I see what you're saying.

    They should tell players who are joining the game what's up. You know what. I agree. I really do. To me, how the game looks is far more important than any of the risque elements (in regards to appeal). That's just my personal perspective on the game. Others focus on other elements. It's just different perspectives. As I said in reply to Malo, I need to step-back sometimes and remind myself that there are many right answers.

    Like I said to Eureka. We shall see what happens. There are people called brand managers working on the marketing of the game, and we'll see what direction they take. Ultimately, they'll take one, and then we'll know.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Spot-on about wanting TS to say something. I actually said that twice.  That I hoped someone from TS would settle it. But I, and a few others, concluded that they will not settle it for us. Why? Creating the subculture is, at the very core, a part of playing the game"

    You answered the "why" right there.
    In any online game, it's the players that create community, culture and subculture.  The devs can give direction, but the players ultimately decide.  In the case of Glitch, the devs have stated their target audience numerous times, and yet we still have 4 pages and nearly 1000 posts in this thread going in circles.  
    I've been playing Glitch since 8/1, so I’m still newish to the community.  However in the countless hours that I've played, I never once was offended by language.  Last month there was a long thread because someone named  a chicken "Annoying Fucker".

    Here's stoot's response from that thread:
    "1. This is not a game for kids.* 

    2. That doesn't mean anyone can just say anything they like in public areas: players are assumed to be able to conduct themselves with some basic and reasonable decorum, tact and consideration for others.

    3. There is no right of expression/free speech in the Glitch. 

    4. We'd prefer not to use code to filter language used on the site (with a few exceptions) because we're not smart enough to make the computers smart enough to figure out all the context: It's ok to say "fuck" or "shit", occasionally. But, extensively discussing details of fucking or shitting in a way that any normal person would find inappropriate in a shared/public space will result in players getting silenced or their accounts deleted.

    5. Sometimes people will act inconsiderately or irresponsibly or without tact or decorum and we'll miss it or won't be able to act in time to prevent other people from seeing it. That's unfortunate but it is worth it for the sake of having generally free/open channels of communication, and we will work our butts off to make sure that extreme vulgarity/crassness does not become the standard.

    * Dagnabit Rabbit, I had never heard of the ICRA before you mentioned it, but having Googled it, it sounds like they are out of the ratings business. So I don't think there is any way for us to "get our rating changed" (I don't think you get to rate yourself anyway — no one ever asked us what we should be rated).
    Posted 24 days ago by stoot barfield  | Permalink"
    Posted 15 months ago by Kungaloosh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg and Gadzooks: because you asked for clarification....

    We require you to confirm that you are 17 and over (or 14 and over with parental permission) when you first sign up to play. That requirement is also in the Terms of Service, to be found here. Finally, Stoot himself said in this thread: "Yes, it is intended for adults."

    I can understand that there is a lot of confusion about the issue despite this because Glitch is fun - the kind of whimsical fun adults sometimes forget they're allowed to have. But, even if we decided to hang "Young Whippersnappers Beware" signs across the face of the game, there would still be those who choose to ignore them. We will address underage players to the best of our capacity when they are brought to our attention, but ultimately it is the responsibility of those venturing into the world to make sure it's a place they are both comfortable with and ready for.

    Staff comments here can be easily lost in the melee, and that may be why some of our previous responses didn't fully sink in. So, I'm closing this thread to make sure it doesn't happen this time, and because this conversation has truly run its course.
    Posted 15 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
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