Topic

can we just settle this. family game or not?

i can't really find an official definition for what a family game is or not, but i mean, it's essentially the same as a 'family film' in regards to the use of language. so, while 'family game' doesn't have an objective definition (yet), 'family film' does. it's "a film genre that is designed to appeal to a variety of age groups and, thus, families." i think we all agree that the game appeals to many age groups. i suppose we could also agree that the game is PG-13 considering that a player must be 13 years or older to play (with parental consent). films typically are upgraded to PG-13 from PG when language is used sparingly (generally, less than 4 times) or the movie is especially violent. note that Glitch never uses language and is never violent, so the game really should be PG or even G. Certainly, it would be rated E for everyone with a disclaimer that they cannot control the content experienced online.  

ultimately though, the game has parallels with a family film that's rated PG-13. and as such, we shouldn't use language. 

thank you for your time.

(edit: ToS says 14 years or older, so I guess PG-14 would be more accurate.)

Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • yes, let it be a monument for all times.

    or at least until game opens.

    it ought to be prominently displayed.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eureka, Hmm. No it doesn't have to be a family game, but look at it. It looks like a kiddie game at first glance. Do you anticipate what happened to PP to happen to Glitch? 

    Sheepy, I find it interesting that we are to be accepting of all types of people yet not traditional types of people. I understand that traditional doesn't always mean good. But let's just remove the concept of social norms from the equation. Let's talk about etiquette since that's the actual social norm I'm talking about. I would bank on it that most people who play this game were raised in a society where proper etiquette dictates that language ought not be used in public. 

    Sheepy, Innie, Eliza, Why is it ethnocentric? to use my own social norms as a reference point? Don't we all do that every day? Innie asked me what social norms I was talking about, and I told her. I wasn't being ethnocentric on purpose if I was at all. And, the entire thing about talking about social  norms was to say in response to people saying that they are just my opinions. They are not only the opinions/ways of me, but of a many people. 

    Also, for clarity, it's not that the game should conform/censor/whatever. It was more a call to action to the players. A request. That was all. So, really that quote, Sheepy, was taken outof context. The proper context was, people were saying, MD why should we listen to your opinions on what a society should be like? Then I replied, they're not my opinions they are social norms. What society has those social norms, MD? Unsure exactly, I said America (large area), Midwest (smaller area), where I live (very specific). So it wasn't explicitly stating America itself as a whole. I was going from large to small. I hope that helps you guys understand what I meant.

    Chaesun, I'm not a Googlebot. I ask people questions instead of search things because I like to hear their version. I am definitely not a fan of Wikipedia, but in this situation it was a source of non-controversial, non-serious information. I used it as a cited source for my point. For the record, I am not against using search engines to search for things. I'm against just telling people to 'Google it.' Google has become like a false idol where instead of asking the people around us, or asking our preachers, or teachers, or other figures of authority on information, we ask Google. I think that's bad. That's another topic though.

    edit

    Forgot to reply to Lilac.

    Lilac,

    Thanks, but I wasn't trying to win. I'm a hyper competitive person though, so overall, I am glad someone sees it that way. Though, I guess you're also saying by winning, I lose. That is, I lose because I gain the ire of many. To me, it doesn't matter. I already had everyone's ire. That's evident in the first page.

    As for the peanut gallery who was reading the thread and saying the thread is awful. I don't care. If you just lurked, and you read all of the posts, and you took nothing from this thread, that's on you. 

    Personally, I learned a lot of different things about about the many people who posted here. I even got several friend requests. Thanks guys. I learned a bit about myself and I am taking away a lot from this thread. I think the biggest reveal, at least to me, was that the culture of this game is backwards. 

    Stewart's aim is for it to attract the slightly more intelligent of the world. Yet here is this thread that is full of some of the most rude activity I have ever seen. Right off the bat, people were at me. No fair reason at all. I mean, and Stewart himself pointed it out too, you guys were acting more childish than adultish. Here's the quote: "But, all you swearing over and over in this thread seem a lot more like kids than adults. And: going around persistently swearing just because you know other people find it offensive is the kind of thing that will get you silenced from public chat channels or even kicked out of the game. So: don't do that. It's not "fighting for free expression" — it's "being a jerk"."

    Thanks.

    edit

    Forgot to say that I got to go afk for the night. Homework due at 11:59. eek. Thanks.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yay!

    more fun!

    *richard attenborough narrates* this peculiar creature, having created a record of astounding foolishness, wishes for it to be prominently visible for all time. scientists are not certain why it has evolved this apparently maladaptive trait. let's watch as it continues to build the display...
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Judging from American television and movies, which are how most of the world gets to know American culture and values, I'd say that using foul language is actually the norm in America. 

    For example, see all the "reality" shows which are not scripted.  And consider why so many American movies are R rated.  Seems to me that what Americans prefer is foul language.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can we get to 1000 responses?  5 pages?  I think if we do we can actually break the internet
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While I disagree with Mr. Dawgg on many levels, I think the "Glitch community" should spend less time ranting about how cool, accepting, open-minded, caring, and nice they are and instead spend that time reading through the forums and seeing how many of you "nice, caring" people are actually assholes, and if any disagrees with you then they should leave.  How's that for acceptance?
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It was pretty clear to me, in beta, that this is an adult game. I respect requests from other players having to do with the spirit of the game, fairness, etc., but not having to do with adults using "adult" language. (Admittedly others have pointed out that kids know those words too.) Since this is a game for adults, it's too-young players who need to be censored, not player language. 

    Apologies if I've repeated others' message. I only read the first couple of pages of comments. I don't think this is going to go anywhere; some players will censor their language and others won't. Glitch is the game that it is, and it's for adults. Non-adults (to use an awkward term!) need to be the ones who adapt or leave.
    Posted 15 months ago by Supershero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I think the biggest reveal, at least to me, was that the culture of this game is backwards. "

    The fact that you think that right there is the biggest reveal to me!  If you think Glitch is backwards, you must not have 1. Been on the internet very long, 2. Lived a very sheltered life, 3. Never played any other MMOs.

    Let me tell you, Glitch is so mild and calm compared to so much else out there. So if this is backwards, please dont turn me around.
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stewart's aim is for it to attract the slightly more intelligent of the world. Yet here is this thread that is full of some of the most rude activity I have ever seen.

    Do you have any data that show that either one of those things is actually linked to the other? 
    I would guess that you have assumed that  people who are rude are not intelligent, and therefore stoot and his gang have failed miserably in their quest to make this game appeal to them.

    But perhaps you have assumed that people who are intelligent are not rude.  This thread must be quite a shock. 
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Seriously?  When I went off and ran errands for my grandmother, I thought it was dead!  Oh no!

    Really, if you don't like whatever language happens to be present, close the chat window.  Going around trying to play "gotcha!" when no one cares about language but you will not gain you friends.  

    Also, I never said it was ethnocentric, I simply said that societal norms are fluid and vary even from one individual to another.  Societal norms are a general collection of things that are considered normal within a society: therefore, if the Glitch community (i.e. "society") decides that it is normal to use moderate language in Glitch public chats, then that becomes a part of our societal norms.

    It really makes the most sense to base an online game's "norms" on the norms as accepted within that online community.  I think this thread has adequately established that Glitchy societal norms include occasional foul language (as well as fowl language, aha!) and no children.  
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just call people on it like I would face to face. It's more or less like a 'gotcha.'

    Wow! 
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I smell a troll.

    And if you're not a troll, please step away from the internet.


    the first reply, the FIRST fucking reply, and it was 100% spot on yet here we are 900+ posts in to this massive fucking trollfest. go back under your bridge, dawgg
    Posted 15 months ago by mogley Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, mogley, this thread has been hijacked by those of us trying to
    a) get it to 1000 posts
    without
    b) falling afoul of the behavior guidelines that would get it closed
    while
    c) bringing the marching band into existence
    using
    d) trombones
    and
    e) kazoos and other cheesy instruments
    that are
    f) waxed to a fine gloss.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you, Windborn. You've revived some faint hope in me, for the possibilities here.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mogley,

    A troll is not an individual... it's an act. And this wasn't a troll. I do not troll. 

    Eliza,

    I know you didn't yourself, but you agreed with him. Also, I rarely do things to try to make friends.

    WindBorn,

    Sure. Rudeness and Intelligence are not necessarily dependent on one another. But, they often are. Personal experience tells me this. But, you're right.

    Innie,

    That's exactly why it was a big reveal to me. I felt that most people were mild mannered on here. But here this thread shows that there is another type of crowd, too. One that is renegade.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm really OCD, and I really prefer all things to be a 5 or 0.  So if I'm changing the volume on the tv or radio, I wouldn't turn it to 17 or 18, I would turn it to either 15 or 20, and if those are uncomfortably quiet or uncomfortably loud I'd rather deal with that lol.  I really am only picky about a few things, its not like I'm hardcore OCD where it controls my life, I just avoid numbers I don't like and also cracks in the sidewalk.  I also eat candies in 2's only (2 skittles at a time, 2 m&m's).

    Whatever, make fun of me lol I don't care.  But my OCD self wants this thread to get to 5 pages.  It would feel so much more complete.  But then nobody else could say anything cause it can't get to 6!

    Also, I never took the time to read through any of this before every commenting because I thought it was ridiculous.  But, when I finally did read through some of the posts I was a little alarmed my the viciousness of the responses.  Not just in this thread, but in many others, there is a "join the majority or leave" mentality.  It gets really old to hear people brag about how good a community they think they have when they turn out anyone that doesn't agree with the majority.  Whether Dawgg is a troll or not, the rudeness should not escalate the way it did.

    Why didn't I break this up into 5 posts?
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you, Laurali! I can feel my hope getting stronger.

    Edit: But not enough to renew my interest in the game, if the priorities of the administrators are what they seem to me to be.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Laurali,

    Me too on the volume. And if idle, I put everything I see in right angles. At any store, I will fix the products on the shelf to be straight and to the front. Ideosyncracy or mental issue? 
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep, some of us think griefing is fun and some of us are renegades. 

    For example there are players who say  "I know that these would become griefer tools more than anything else, but griefing is fun.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mr. Dawgg: That sounds like it might be a mild form of OCD, possibly a non-issue, but if you have insurance, you may want to mention it to your GP, just to know.
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eliza, prolly. Maybe I should. Thanks.

    WindBorn, interesting that I actually just replied to the thread you already posted that quote from me in. I don't consider griefing anything beyond messing-around or teasing. I know some consider it as grave as rape. But I don't. Note that I posted that quote on the first post I ever made on this forum.

    Also, the tools in question? You could at least put the whole quote. The tools would be that they implement the ability to jump on people's heads and push people as you walk past them. It would be fun to mess-around with people that way. Not for everyone though.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *watches in awe as the hole gets dug deeper and deeper*
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You know what the messed up thing is?  When I played WoW, the "kids" 11-14ish were the ones that were the dirtiest/most perverted/most foul of any other people I encountered.  
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "The tools would be that they implement the ability to jump on people's heads and push people as you walk past them. It would be fun to mess-around with people that way. Not for everyone though."

    Mostly off topic: I can see how this could be done in a way that would not hamper gameplay and not actually cause problems... except what I imagine would be a complete HORROR for dealing with lag and flash and the like. If the choice is between the ability to jump on heads and having the game run smooth... 
    Posted 15 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jump on heads, obvi
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Haha! Yes, obviously.

    Lord Bacon-o, I definitely know now what you're saying. Though only in recent tests have I had really bad lag. When I posted that idea thread, I think I had played the game for maybe 2 hours? Not long. I caught the tail-end of a test and after it closed, I had a lot of ideas.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Laurali, do the achievement numbers bother you?
    Posted 15 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To no end Fnibbit, to no end. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WindBorn wrote: *watches in awe as the hole gets dug deeper and deeper*

    Popcorn WindBorn?? I got an extra bucket, I think we'll need it :D
    Posted 15 months ago by jjbob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Laurali "You know what the messed up thing is?  When I played WoW, the "kids" 11-14ish were the ones that were the dirtiest/most perverted/most foul of any other people I encountered."

    how did you know the ages of the people you encountered in wow?
    Posted 15 months ago by mogley Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We would talk on vent mogley and they sounded like prepubescent males.   When I inquired they would tell me.  You can pretty much always tell a little kid by the sound of their voice
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @mogley I imagine someone accused them of being a kindergartner and they responded with a string of expletives and an age mixed together. 

    @laurali I'm bugged by the achievement numbers as well. That's only slightly helped by the fact that most of them are prime. But that's slightly hindered by the fact that some of them are not.

    @Mr. Dawgg I've tried to stay out of this thread since page 2 (I think). But I couldn't sleep and let temptation to check this give in. I'm not going to say anything to you about anything you said except the following: You have absolutely no proof that anyone equates griefing with rape. That's a libelous statement, as well as being hyperbole in extremely poor taste.. Rape is in no way equatable with griefing in a game. Does that mean griefing is cool when compared to rape? No. Because they're not comparable. Neither are cool in completely different ways. Since you seem to be someone who is apparently easily offended and behalf of young adults, I'm shocked that you would sink to making such a triggering and offensive accusation. Not cool.
    Posted 15 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm no lawyer, but I don't think equating one thing with another is  libel.

    Is accusing someone of libel libellous,  or is that written slander?
    ;)
    Posted 15 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • He said that other people were equating griefing with rape. Well, typed it (hence libel). In this thread. But he has given no proof that anyone has done that. That is character assassination and, were he to attach a name to it, would be libelous, yes. Unless he can provide proof.

    As it is, it's not legal libel, as he didn't actually say anyone's name. But it's still a libelous statement.

    Written slander is libel. Slander can only be said out loud or signed.

    ETA: I'm going to sleep now. Again. And once again, not planning on checking this thread again.
    Posted 15 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • s1231.photobucket.com/album...
    Posted 15 months ago by Lilac Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In reference to the title of this thread:

    I guess not, huh?
    Posted 15 months ago by That Kid Tyler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • When I opened this thread, it had 936 replies, which makes this the 937th reply. 63 more replies until 1000.

    And to answer the title of this thread, no... it's not a family game.
    Posted 15 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why am I reminded of the city dwellers who move to the countryside and then complain about the person who has lived there all their life having a cockerel and it crowing and waking them up in the morning? 

    Or the man who goes on holiday to a working seaport and then complains about the crates of fish and crabs at the harbour and the general smell of fishiness ruining their holiday?

    As far as I am concerned the ToS from TS provide all the answer you need.

    Oh and Flask - loving that trombone :-)
    Posted 15 months ago by Mooquick Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Good morning!  It's Game Day here at Ur.  Welcome to all of those who are just coming over to the forums to see what has happened since we last closed.

    We need just a few more responses before we can reach 1000.  So bring on the trombones.  If you are musically challenged, whip out your kazoo.  And for the truly musically challenged, there's a group of audience members who can clap and cheer without even being in rhythm.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mr. Dawgg: The rules of etiquette are social norms. Social norms are based on culture. Culture varies by region, ethnicity, class, and so on. Assuming that everyone else believes in the same rules of etiquette as those you grew up with, in the region you reside within, is ethnocentric. Suggesting that the social norms within a multicultural/internationally played game should follow those you grew up with is ethnocentric.  Believing that "everyone follows a social norm in which foul language is unacceptable" because you grew up with such a norm is ethnocentric. It's that simple.
    Posted 15 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i'm not taking sides here with the "rape as griefing" claim, but this discussion made me think of an article i've had to read for a few of my classes: julian's dibbles account of a 'rape in cyberspace' http://www.juliandibbell.com/articles/a-rape-in-cyberspace/

    i think it provides some interesting historical context from early MMOs/online communities and the issues we still deal with, and at least shows how powerful text can be (which i think we all know anyway since we're so compelled by this thread!)
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • |-|3'/ 9U'/5,

    51|\|(3 7|-|15 15 7|-|3 1|\|73R|\|37 1 7|-|1|\||< \/\/3 (4|\| 4LL 49R33 7|-|@ 7|-|3 0|\|L'/ 4PPR0PR1473 "L4|\|9U493" |-|3R3 15 L337 5P34|<.

    /7|-|R34D
    Posted 15 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • L337 5P34|< 17 15!
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Sheepy.
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While contributing to the goal of reaching 1,000 posts, I'd like to recommend these fine threads in Glitch's forums:

    Things in Glitch that never fail to make me smile
    What you love and why [in Glitch]

    :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've not actually read any of this, but felt I should post something so I could show my grandchildren I was there.
    Posted 15 months ago by dr_loplop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is the longest thread I've ever seen.....

    And no, not really a "family" game....depending on your family I suppose. I have a 18 year old sister- she could play. My 4 year old son? Nope. Although he does like to sit with me and "look for keys" in my inventory.
    Posted 15 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Damnit, Ximenez, quit stomping on my righteous anger ;)
    Posted 15 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • bahahahahaha dr_loplop - that made me giggle! 
    Posted 15 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The way Mr. Dawg keeps coming back and answering various people's points sort of reminds me of the guy on the Ed Sullivan show who is keeping as many plates spinning on the ends of sticks as he can. The faint scent of a highly skilled troll is present.

    As long as there are still plates in the air I suppose the act will continue. But it's gotten kind of boring to watch.
    Posted 15 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
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