Topic

Request for people in Global Chat.

If someone is being knowingly offensive and refuses to stop, could we simply block, report, and change the subject? As it is, it seems to be "continue to argue with the guy so the offensive subject continues to be the matter of discussion."

Trolls want to piss you off. You are giving them a field day when you decide to continue ad nauseum with the self-righteous scolding and shower them with attention. Could we kindly cut them off at the source and talk about sloths or something? That is the ONLY way to immediately improve the situation for everyone. Thank you.

Posted 68 days ago by ZenMonkey Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

Previous 1 2
  • If you're unable to get global to change the subject, you aren't trying the right phrases! Generally, I go with things like this:

    I like cats
    I just made <random food item>
    BOOBS
    I hate cats
    I love to spoon.

    Feel free to use any of these phrases and wait for global to diverge. Or come up with your own. Generally, people will follow along. If they don't...well, you may be in the minority for that session of global chat then.
    Posted 68 days ago by XD Subscriber! | Permalink
  • True. Had I had more patience tonight, I might have tried that tack.
    Posted 68 days ago by ZenMonkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I always go with the "I Like Cats" method to change the subject. Works like a charm, oh! Or Bacon! Bacon works too!
    Posted 68 days ago by Lily Linguistic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Personally speaking, I have found that light-hearted, fun-filled topics such as "9/11 was an inside job" and "Your religion sucks because there is no God" makes for a smooth subject change.
    Posted 68 days ago by Perion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh my gosh this
    I swear global has been a mess the past couple of days.
    Posted 67 days ago by ₰ℓ№ʀ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There were less than 10 responses to the guy.  And I firmly believe that it's important to say 'What you said is not okay' - not for the troll, but for the rest of the people who read chat.  Nothing but silence implies that the rest of us don't think it's a big deal, even if a bunch of people are blocking the troll behind the scenes.
    Posted 67 days ago by Kadi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Kadi - you are absolutely right. Quite often trolling comes pretty close to bullying and not saying anything can be interpreted as tacit support.
    Posted 67 days ago by Captain Daisy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The quickest and easiest (and very well proven) way of changing the subject in global chat..........

    CHEESE!

    Try it, it works.
    Posted 67 days ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well said, kadi. I think that there's a risk of assuming ill intent too quickly, too. I've seen my fair share of trolls in Global, but I've also seen a lot if misunderstandings and genuine discussions of uncomfortable topics.

    Link to a photo of a woman wearing a bra made of bacon and you're virtually guaranteed to distract us from any discussion.
    Posted 67 days ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Where do I get salt?
    Posted 67 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • http://wherecanigetsalt.com/

    :D
    Posted 67 days ago by Lily Linguistic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This wasn't by far the only incident, but how many times do you need to say "It's not okay" before you feel satisfied, Kadi? I said something myself, blocked and reported, and then all I saw was you continuing to try to explain to him how his comments were offensive. He did not care and continuing with the righteous rage bit just kept the ugly subject alive. He didn't drive me out of global, but that did.

    I'm not talking about possible misunderstandings, although I usually take those conversations to IM myself rather than embarrass someone (or myself) publicly. I'm talking about obvious trolls. People who are trying to be offensive. They're not that hard to identify, and they're impossible to "educate" or "enlighten," so the more you try, the more you're keeping their game alive while annoying everyone who'd like the subject to be changed.

    If anyone can find someone at TS who recommends continuing to rail against a troll versus saying one's piece, blocking, reporting, and moving on, I will happily apologize for my inappropriate request. ;-)
    Posted 67 days ago by ZenMonkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • P.S. Lily, I SO WISH I had seen that link before! Thank you.
    Posted 67 days ago by ZenMonkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Bacon" is also a good word to throw in for an instant change in subject.
    Posted 67 days ago by Anaglyph Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't feel like I was railing at him.  Where's your cutoff on what's an appropriate response?  And why do you think your cutoff is the one that should be agreed upon?  You think I was railing at the troll - I think I was saying my piece.  (Also, I wasn't telling them why their comment was offensive, unless you mean my sarcastic remark that they look up antisemitism on Wikipedia). The whole incident lasted less than five minutes - perhaps you missed that when you left global, and thought it went on a lot longer.

    And again, I don't care about the troll and what gives them their jollies.  If I made that one troll briefly happy, I don't care - I care about the people reading, who felt better knowing this chat isn't the kind that lets those sorts of comments go. 
    Posted 66 days ago by Kadi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What's that saying about pigs and mud? Goes double for trolls. Block, report and do not engage.
    Posted 66 days ago by Edith Anne Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have to agree with Kadi. There are some places where I expect the disagreeable people to be so common, there is no point in calling them out, but in places like Glitch, where I feel some kind of responsibility for this, our common space, I can't and won't let certain words go by without comment. Sometimes people cross the line, and it's important to say 'it's not ok to behave like that in here', because silence implies that it IS ok, that if you decide to be a bully, no one's going to stop you or say anything.

    Besides, not everyone who behaves like a troll does it for kicks. A lot of people say rude things without realising how rude  they are. I'm sure we've ALL done it at least once in our lives. It's painful to be told 'you're rude' and very, very difficult to back down and apologise, since you need some time to think and understand why the behaviour you thought was innocent wasn't appropriate. But the alternative is much worse- if no one tells you you're behaving inappropriately, you'll never know. You'll keep on doing the same thing, thinking you're being super funny or witty.
    Posted 66 days ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to saying something when people are shitlords. The discussions I've seen have almost always involved regulars in Global defending the shitlords or being really dismissive about the people who are calling out glitchen who make bigoted comments.
    Posted 66 days ago by Pixel Dirigible Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have not seen that many bigoted comments in Global.  But it can be a problem sometimes.
    Posted 66 days ago by Feldspar Gravity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dorgan, I asked a similar question about Global a few months ago and concluded that the best we can do is speak up and move on.  I think that we should all be able to speak our minds, within the confines of the ToS of course, even if it exposes some ignorance or stupidity ;)  

    When we enter an online conversation we compromise any expectations that we would be treated as we would be face-to-face because there is little to risk of shame and almost no consequence.  It sucks sometimes, but I've met most of my favorite players in Global chat and I'd gladly trade a few moments of offense for that.
    Posted 66 days ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sloppy Ketchup said: When we enter an online conversation we compromise any expectations that we would be treated as we would be face-to-face because there is little to risk of shame and almost no consequence.

    I belong to a few online discussion groups where we discuss some of the most volatile and divisive subjects, from politics to declawing cats, and we treat each with respect. Personal and/or ad hominum attacks are not allowed and the rule is strictly enforced. Repeat offenders get the banhammer.

    Online communities, like meat space communities, are what you make them.

    I find it perplexing that, in a game where everyone tries to be so nice and helpful, slurs, rape jokes, and other hurtful comments are allowed or excused.

    "Welcome to Global, Glitch's id."
    Posted 65 days ago by Wrong Way Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know why this is inaccurately being boiled down to "say nothing or say something." That isn't even close to my point. I've already mentioned that I did say something before I blocked. I'm in favor of that. Anything more is pointless, as is arguing this one particular incident. It hasn't been the only one and it hasn't only been for five minutes.

    (About this incident: yes, it was something everyone could and did agree was bigoted, and no, I don't want to debate that issue right here. I'm trying to make a point which seems to be getting lost, and that's -- no sarcasm -- a really good subject for a separate post.)

    Here's a question: if you need more than one message to say what you need to say, why not take it to IM? That way everyone gets to see your opinion, and anything further can be kept out of global. Why do further sarcastic comments or attempts to convert or educate or explain or clarify or whatever need to be seen by everyone once you've made your point to all? What's the motivation behind keeping it in global?

    And yes, I do think my cutoff of one message is valid, or as I've said, go ahead and find a staff person who thinks continuing to engage is a good idea and I will cheerfully take it back.
    Posted 65 days ago by ZenMonkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think what this thread boils down to is:
    a) don't feed trolls.
    b) popular food or pet preferences make for great conversational "pivots" that allow the troll-thread to be completely derailed.

    Which boils down to only feed trolls bacon.

    :)

    Cheers.
    Posted 65 days ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • But if we feed the trolls bacon, we'll never get rid of them!
    Posted 65 days ago by Kellinator Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, but they'll be fat, lazy, and too sleepy to bug us.

    --Me
    Posted 65 days ago by SchWM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cookies!  It always works.
    Posted 65 days ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I remember Global Chat. 

    It was smaller in those days, and mostly just fields. Then the developers moved in with their heavy machinery and their utility connections and before you knew it.....BAM. GLOBALHYPERMEGACHAT.

    Mourn with me, Glitchen.
    Posted 65 days ago by Daddy Bunchie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think responding once, blocking and reporting sounds like a great solution!  For others, simply blocking and reporting is also a great solution.  I think we need to be careful not to police each other too much, though?  Like, when we're on the same side.  Even if you perceive someone as feeding a troll (something other than bacon), the problem originated from the troll.  I don't think attacking each other for engaging is going to help the situation all that much.

    I think ZenMonkey's idea of switching to IM is actually also a great idea for helping someone else out who is reacting to something offensive.  Maybe send a friendly IM to them to say you have blocked and reported so-and-so and to make sure they have done the same?  I'm not on global often at all, but I know if I was engaging too much with someone who others knew it wouldn't help to engage with, the thing that would help me stop and feel resolved about it would be others letting me know that they were on my side and reminding me to block.

    ETA: I would never IM someone who was saying bigoted things because that's not really a safe or fair thing to ask others to do.
    Posted 64 days ago by Persephone Pear Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't have Global open ever; I know why.
    Posted 64 days ago by Not a Princess Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Awwh.. But then you're missing out on all the good, zany, fun stuff.

    There's WAY more of that than this. Promise.

    --Me
    Posted 64 days ago by SchWM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's easy to get carried away, but you know what? I'd rather see Global hung up on telling a misbehaving Glitch why his words are hurtful rather than not see any significant reaction at all.

    "Here's a question: if you need more than one message to say what you need to say, why not take it to IM? That way everyone gets to see your opinion, and anything further can be kept out of global. Why do further sarcastic comments or attempts to convert or educate or explain or clarify or whatever need to be seen by everyone once you've made your point to all? What's the motivation behind keeping it in global?"

    My answer to this would be: one message is not always enough. When I speak up, I'm interested in having a conversation about what is and isn't okay, because clearly there is a person in Global that is confused about it. Sarcastic comments are usually not helpful at all, so I avoid those, but trying to educate someone is a GOOD thing.

    Why do I want to continue the conversation in Global? Because I want other people to join in and voice their opinion on this issue. Because it's usually not a private argument between me and one Glitch, but an issue which concerns everyone. 

    And to be frank, I don't see why talking about what is and isn't offensive is a worse subject than, say, cats, or food, or mental illness, or death in the family, or coprophagia. Those are all topics which have appeared in Global in the last week. Global talks about whatever it feels like talking about, isn't that the point?
    Posted 64 days ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And here I thought Glitch was supposed to be a friendly game.
    Yeesh... You guys... just remember the first and most important rule of the internet:
    Don't. Feed. The. Trolls.
    People be breakin' da rule.
    On a sidenote, I had no idea Glitch had global chat until I saw this thread.
    I wasn't missing much. XD
    Posted 64 days ago by Kimbers Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was commenting in another, unrelated internet community that happens to have another Glitch player how astonishingly easy it is to troll Global. 

    I'm not saying I've done it.  I don't post much in Global, but if I'm in game, I have it open.  Occasionally someone draws my attention to an interesting conversation or to staff being chatty or stoot doing an impromptu Q&A.  So I don't post, but I observe.  A lot. 

    I have to say that blatant trolls that would sputter and die from being ignored in this other community are much more likely to be successful in Global.  I think it's probably because we're a semi-closed community, full of mostly sincere people who genuinely like the culture that has developed. 

    I wouldn't want that to change to be honest, even if I don't particularly enjoy reading a bunch of people arguing with a troll. 
    Posted 64 days ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why I Will Feed The Trolls If I Damn Well Want To: from Jay Smooth's Ill Doctrine

    I'll say this again: The times I've seen this happening in global, there are almost always regulars defending the person who is using bigoted language (usually ableist or homophobic slurs). It is never just one troll versus a bunch of people. We're not complaining about swearing. I for one say "fuck" and "shit" all the goddamn time; this isn't a debate about "coarse language", and it seems like every time someone speaks out about language like "retard" in chat there's *someone* trying to turn what we're saying into a horseshit straw man clutching their pearls about words like "fuck" and "damn".

    The reason that people like Kadi and I call people out for this sort of thing is that letting comments that are bigoted (whether that's because they're ableist, homophobic, racist, anti-Semitic, misogynist, etc) go tends to make people who are in the marginalized groups that are being slandered feel alienated. People who are in these groups usually are really sick of having to tell people to stop using words like "retard", "slut" and "faggot", making rape jokes, etc, and often their marginalized status in society makes it harder for them to speak up (because people take those with disabilities, women, people of color, etc less seriously). We can't count on people in marginalized groups to speak up when the language that's being used is causing them harm, because they're already dealing with that shit on a regular basis and it's not their job to explain the finer points of the word "retard" with every asshole with a keyboard. (A lot of people in marginalized groups do choose to also speak up, which is the best, but that can be an extremely draining experience, so I just want to make sure that the point that it's not the job of marginalized groups to give Feminism 101 or Anti-Ableism 101 or Patriarchy 101 or Racist Language 101 etc to everyone who asks.) So we speak up-- not speaking *for* the people in those groups (because you really can't speak for anyone with a dramatically different life than yours) but hopefully in a way that makes specific places-- in this case, Glitch-- somewhat less likely to reinforce the damaging cultural narratives that make their lives difficult.
    Posted 64 days ago by Pixel Dirigible Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *removed*

    (Was typing over Pixel, and didn't want my fairly light-hearted response to seem like it was in response to Pixel's carefully thought out and much more serious post).

    --Me
    Posted 64 days ago by SchWM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, and Jay Smooth is a god. 

    Seriously, he may have said something wrong once. But I was so caught up in how well he said it, I didn't notice.

    --Me
    Posted 64 days ago by SchWM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you Pixel!
    Posted 64 days ago by Persephone Pear Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dang. I miss all the excitement.  
    Posted 64 days ago by Zooo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh and Kimbers? You are missing out if you haven't at least opened Global for a few hours.  Hilarious happenings, drama, news, silliness.  Great fun if you don't take anything too seriously. 
    Posted 64 days ago by Zooo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ask a question that everyone should know like the previously commonly asked question "Where can I get WOTD?"(GO TO HELL!!!)
    or maybe get help for a quest or badge
    Posted 64 days ago by Kristabel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pixel, you explained it perfectly.

    I'd add one more thing- just because I'm not always in the particular minority being insulted or marginalised (sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not) doesn't mean the words are not causing me harm. Tolerance for slurs harms society as a whole, and our miniature Glitch society as well. 

    Some things you just have to object to. Even thought I've been online for decades, and I know that people can be very inconsiderate, I'm still shocked when people say stuff like that. My first thought is 'Why...why would you say that? Do you even know what you just said???' And you can call me naive, but I think that's the correct reaction. I don't want to ever forget that words can and do hurt people.
    Posted 64 days ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It isn't really clear where this is going.
    Posted 64 days ago by Feldspar Gravity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dorgan, I agree with you on many points, especially on that not everyone is a troll- and that's why instead of ignoring them, I engage them to have the discussion they provoke. Sometimes they didn't think their words would be a big deal at all.

    However, one thing about Free Speech (forgetting the fact that it doesn't work the same way globally), there is also such a thing as Hate Speech, and usually that is NOT protected by Free Speech.

    In any case, Glitch Global doesn't have a set legal system (does it?) so accepting these ideals is entirely up to the participants, and that's why we need to speak our minds. My personal respect of Free Speech stops where Hate Speech starts. 
    Posted 64 days ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not an American, and we have other laws governing speech, but doesn't "Free Speech" mean that the US government cannot imprison you for political statements, rather than "everyone should be allowed to say everything they want, and people who object because they find what they said offensive infringe on their rights" - which is how people seem to be using it on the internet, particularly if others call them out on offensive statements? The fact that there are Community Guidelines here, which actually include this:

    Absolutely no personal attacks or hateful speech directed at others’ gender, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, ethnic background or anything else you should have the good sense not to hate on.


    should make pretty clear that the kind of "free speech" that turns the one objecting to offensive statements into an oppressive villain does not in fact exist on this website. And unless I'm much mistaken, even the US have laws on libel and slander and so on, meaning that even there you will get into trouble if you call other people certain things.

    Personally, rape jokes, use of ableist and sexist slurs etc. turned me off global - particularly the fact that there are always people defending the one making the original statement when they are called out. I have to cope with people thinking these things are a joke every day IRL, I don't need that here, too, and I also don't need to be told that finding such things offensive is my own fault because I do not have a sense of humour.
    Posted 64 days ago by Not a Princess Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There were less than 10 responses to the guy.  And I firmly believe that it's important to say 'What you said is not okay' - not for the troll, but for the rest of the people who read chat.  Nothing but silence implies that the rest of us don't think it's a big deal, even if a bunch of people are blocking the troll behind the scenes. Posted 4 days ago by Kadi

    I have to agree with Kadi on this one.  I do block them, but only after letting them know that their behaviour is NOT ok.  All that happens with total silence is that newbies believe that everyone else is condoning their bad behaviour...
    Posted 64 days ago by Arietty Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some of what people are saying here makes a lot of sense.
    Posted 63 days ago by Feldspar Gravity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Where did I ever say the solution was to ban anyone? I am all for arguing them down, that was precisely my point!

    As to your criticism of the term 'Hate Speech', I don't think we can dismiss it so easily when throughout history, propaganda against various groups has led to discrimination, denial of rights, violence, and genocide. And this continues to happen. Hate Speech exists. I see examples of it every single day, and they are causing harm.

    You're taking it in a strange direction, drawing the conclusion that protecting people from being targeted because of their identity will result to people being stoned to death for their behaviour. Where does that come from? 

    I honestly don't know how to respond because I'm baffled as to how you ended up there. You also seem to be suggesting that there do not exist any minorities in need of protection...not sure if I understood you right, but if so, that is a strange denial of fact. Still, no one ever said these minorities should be protected at the cost of the safety and freedom of other groups, that's your extrapolation... unless you consider stopping someone from abusing someone more vulnerable an infringement of the bully's rights. 

    I don't get it, really.

    Your Thanksgiving analogy stops very shortly after it begins, as we Glitchen are not bound by family relationships...we don't feel the same obligation to pretend to get along that a family does. Furthermore, we haven't gathered for a spiritual event that requires significant decorum, we just pop in and out for a casual chat with near-strangers. No topic is imposed, there is no obligation to stay until the end or give any other player extra respect due to their status.

    So, because we don't have those terrible familial constraints and guilt hanging over our heads,  if someone brings up a controversial topic, what is accomplished is simply a discussion about a controversial topic. And I do hope you're not equating talking about Gay Marriage to calling someone a fag, because the latter is the kind of behaviour we're talking about here.

    And I don't understand why you advocate for shutting up the nephew, since you JUST said shutting people up wasn't the way to go. I must be missing something, or you're not being clear enough. 

    (Thank you for the lesson in internet history and mythology, btw, but it wasn't necessary, at least for me. 'Troller' may be grammatically correct but it is not the word that permeated the language, so I'll continue to say 'troll' like everyone else.)
    Posted 63 days ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What is disturbing is how people react to certain things.  Don't let yourself become a victim of someone else's words.
    Posted 63 days ago by Feldspar Gravity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't see anyone here advocating that "the state "should interfere in what happens in Global. This is however the domain of a company, and they have already instated rules on what can and cannot be said here - the ones I quoted before, which seem to come quite close to addressing "hate speech". TS have the right to declare and enforce such rules, just like I would have the right to tell people who come to my house to not use certain language if they want to be welcome here. That doesn't mean that I would want them to be punished by law enforcement, but that I have the right not to want to hear certain things in my house. If TS takes were to take action against people using such language, that is not the same as people being arrested - more like the people hosting your "Thanksgiving" party telling a family member who keeps insulting everyone else to either cut it out or leave.

    My own country has had laws banning certain types of speech for now almost 70 years. Amazingly enough, this has neither turned us into a theocracy nor into the setting of 1984 nor into a police state - the latter is what we had for the twelve years before that. What it does do is prevent people from inciting hatred and violence against minorities. And I don't feel any obligation to "stand up for them having a voice", because we have seen in great detail what people like them can do.
    Posted 63 days ago by Not a Princess Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I find it interesting that you (Dorgan) think that the suppression of hate speech will result in a theocracy, when theistic organizations tend to be one of the biggest sources of hate speech, and the culture that encourages it.
    Posted 63 days ago by Aurora Dellaterra Subscriber! | Permalink
Previous 1 2