Topic

new invention - FOODWRITING [images]

some of use playing around in plexus figured out that if you drop an item without a platform being below it, it will hang in space.

so a bunch of us got together and did some FOODWRITING which is like skywriting except with food.

pics so it did happen:

http://striatic.net/misc/glitch/HELLO_WORLD.png

do what you will with this information.

Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • .
    Posted 17 months ago by Pixel☆ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The idea of "locking" items temporarily to an owner has been brought up in threads previous to this. What happened here is a connected problem.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, a nice SS going on and I'm not here for the fun?

    Anyways, NMBW (NutMeg BotWin), I was just messing with you. Didn't mean to cause you to get all flustered. Well I guess I did mean to, but I mean, I didn't mean to make an enemy of you if I did.

    I hate people who whine. Be it in life or be it in a game. If someone is whining, that person needs to get over his bad self. So it's something that really grinds my gears, and you were whining hardcore. This gained my ire.

    In any event... public artwork? C'mon naw. You tossed items around in a game. You didn't create 'art.' Good lord. Art. Pish Posh. You guys are such pseudo intellectuals it's sad. This is just a toy, a divergence. What exploits you accomplish in this game are not art or anything grand. It's like a kid in a sandbox calling his creations 'public art.' That's how absurd you guys are.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Charming, Dawgg, ever so charming.

    Aren't we so lucky to have you to put us all in our tiny places. Absurd, indeed.
    Posted 17 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks zeeberk. Glad we agree. 

    Now that you mention it, yeah, I guess everyone is pretty lucky to have me around :D
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you do not agree with something others do, does not mean you have to destroy or annoy others. Anyone can be trolly, but lets not do this in nice game like Glitch.

    I think Glitch is nice, because it brings child back in people. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Lilla My Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It was an Amazing 'Hello' looking forward to seeing more art in there ,well done to all those concerned :o) 
    Posted 17 months ago by Tilly Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Where is the pic of the heart (with other bits?) I was there and have not seen a snapshot of it yet, probably just missed it
    Posted 17 months ago by riscy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • They are in the other thread.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • cheers Victoria :)
    Posted 17 months ago by riscy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg, you hate people who whine? Just ignore them. You don't like what they make? Ignore that too. You think it's ridiculous "tossing items around in a game" is considered art by some people? I've seen worse. Ever heard of conceptual art?

    That will be all.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to Eleanor, 
    But also I understad Nutmeg, if someone does something unpleasant, first thing one should do is adress that person to convince him/her to stop doing that. If that person starts griefing you then, I find that really bad taste.
    Sure, "live and let live" but I hope we don't start ignoring others behaviour or stop caring about the impact our behaviour has on the world. Then we could just as well go start playing single player games.

    @Mr. Dawgg: I strongly get the impression that everyone you meet needs to adapt to you How about you trying to adapt a bit to the people around you?
    That you have a thick skin doesn't mean everyon has, or that everyone should have. Nor does it mean you can just be blunt/rude/cress to just everyone around you and expect them not to be offended/hurt by it.

    Give and take.
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • - I wouldn't like soulbound items. Takes away lots of creativity.
    - No special areas for "art". It restricts creativity imo. It's like: Ok in this box you can be creative, but not outside it, ok?
    + People who are on follow shouldn't be allowed automatic entry into ones house.
    + More creativity. Also in ways as how to deal with griefers.
    + How about being able to put down a heap of physical objects which you can't walk through? They should disintegrate in a few hours, but you could build a wall around something. When interest in the art fades, less people will maintain the wall and the art becomes more easily accesible to be cleaned up by scavengers.
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Victoria, someone actually made that in real life. They actually were motivated enough to make it. What is happening in this anti-grav or whatever area isn't art. I didn't say I didn't like it. It's just not noteworthy nor is it 'art.' You guys have to make something outof nothing because that's how you are. 

    Again, I didn't say I didn't like what they made. I didn't even look at what was made. *Looks at it* Wow, even more stupid to call it art. They wrote 'hello' in food. Who cares? Gosh you guys are so ridiculous. But that's my whole point... you guys toyed around in a zone and have the audacity to call it art. That's how blown-up your egos are. It's sad really. Anyone on the outside looking in would think you guys are absurd to call that art.

    In hindsight, I shouldn't have said I hate people who whine. I don't. Well, I would hate someone who constantly whines, probably. But, I mean, whining itself aggravates me. Yes, I could ignore it. But, I was just messing with NMBW. I mean her no ill will as a person. I just was messing with her because she was being a whiner at the moment.

    Miriamele, I don't expect people to bend to my will. Au contrare, I know that they won't. Just don't expect me to stand idly by when I see people acting the foo. I'm going to voice my opinion because I'm an opinionated jackass like the rest of allayall. You guys need to realize that you're not better than everyone else. Your actions in this game don't have special meaning or purpose. It's still just a toy. Just because it's the toy that you are currently using doesn't make it 'art.' 

    Also, I don't want to leave the impression that I feel toys aren't important. Toys have value, and playtime has value. But it's not the same amount or type of value that some of you apply to it. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "you guys toyed around in a zone and have the audacity to call it art. That's how blown-up your egos are. It's sad really. Anyone on the outside looking in would think you guys are absurd to call that art."

    it's art.

    art doesn't have to be Important.

    only people with big egos think art has to be anything other than playful.

    whistling a new song is art. splashing around fingerpaints is art.

    if it is impractical and communicative, it is probably art.

    dude .. you have WAY too built up an idea of what "Art" is supposed to be.
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +11 to Striatic.

    Also, +5, +13, +2, and a bunch of other primes.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dawgg!  I can't believe this is the guy that described himself as "a major prick back then, but i've mellowed out a lot."

    You must have been a mother-effing terror back then!
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol @Nanookie.

    +allThosePrimesJasboMentionedAddedTogether to Striatic
    Posted 17 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +Pi to Millie.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i saw a few of the public art things in plexus and thought they were wonderful. they were works of community art, which made them even better.

    community art, public art, street art, graffiti- these are all things that are particular sort of priorities of mine. like it or not, they are both controversial and ephemeral.  the space, even the virtual space, is public (even though this one has a "key").  it's not owned by anyone except glitch, and thus only glitch gets to make the rules. when murals get painted in public spaces, there's a varying degree of "publicness" about them.  they may or may not be there with permission of the wall-owner, but the viewers of the art, the public, may or may not have any input on them.  then there's less-than-legal street art, which is my permission of very few, and will get removed somewhere between immediately and never. 

    is painting over a legal mural griefing? if the building changes ownership? if a legitimate art group paints it, but without the wall owner's permission? on an unused building? is tagging on an empty lot, or painting a mural, or wheatpasting in the same empty lot griefing? or defacing or vandalizing that empty lot? is the person who then paints over it, or fines the property owner, in the right?

    these are Real World examples that i think are quite relevant to the issues we're having now.  it's super lame (and not altogether different from the mining issues before) to go into a project that people are actively working on, and pick up the pieces after youv'e been asked to stop. but is it "wrong" or "griefing" or "thieving"? or is it just the nature of a public art project, in a public space, when the terms of community art aren't defined, and aren't ever going to be agreed on by everyone.

    i know, too long to read :)
    Posted 17 months ago by greenkozi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually quite interesting, greenkozi :)  I had to go look up wheatpasting :p
    Posted 17 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Interpretation of art is subjective. Pathos and great mystery abounds. It polarizes; it sends the polemic train hurtling down the track. We may never share the same opinion. I'll just drop my two pesos worth and leave it alone.

    Art (to me) is the craft and creation. Once committed, it enters a different sphere. It ceases to exist on its own. Set a score to notation, write a poem down, step back from the canvas at the final brush stroke-  in my (albeit skewed) perception you've lost the essence of what you were after. It is no longer living in and of itself. The creation is dead. You were, for a brief moment, in the centre of something nebulous and intangible, wild, untamed, an embodiment of emotion connecting you to something far outside of yourself. Then you stepped out. Once you did all that was left was a body ready to return again to the æther. Your finished product may be beautiful and haunting but it's stillborn.

    Wayne Shorter trading with Miles comes to mind. Straight from the soul; no regurgitation of stock licks, but tapped into pure emotion. It's easy for me to point at improvisation and see where the outcome is so much larger then the individual involved. Quite the fine line in the end. When that same moment is recorded and then played back, you have a performance. It no longer is art to me.

    I love all kinds of what we call artistic medium. I love the inherent craftsmanship. The attention to detail. So much so that it often overshadows the "story" when reading or watching film. My wife hates this by the way...we can be watching the same film and I'll tell her that a particular scene is a clever homage to Itami and enjoy it for that alone, where she will just take it at face value. Takes all kinds. I'm a pop culture wizard that can accio left field references all day long and use my mental bludger to send the metaphorical quaffle right to your brainrack. Some just come for the popcorn.

    So yeah, Plexus. Clever and quite fun. Ideograms and messages formed out of common objects. Cool stuff. If you kind of grok what I was getting at earlier then you know my take on it. Enjoy in the creating. Celebrate the time when you are gathered together and contributing; making something out of nothing. Caught out in a moment when you are stepping out of your own will and into the centre of majick. Without fear or regrets. If someone comes along and undoes what you have done, fix it. Creation isn't a point of stasis-   there is ebb and flow. Go with it. Live in that moment...there's your art. What you have when you finish is an object.   
    Posted 17 months ago by malo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, I was a major prick back then. I was very foul and went around making enemies of everyone. AD and I were the only Enemies on Stewart's list. I was suspended multiple times by Fake. I do not think I'm being a prick right now. I'm just voicing my opinion as brazen as it may or may not be.

    Striatic, I agree that art doesn't have to be important. But you guys think that your creations are important. "What is Art?" is very subjective as Malo pointed out as well. I personally don't feel what you guys made was art. Art or not... it certainly wasn't important. In response to your saying I have too high expectations, I'd say you have too low of expectations.

    Also, very eloquent interpretation of what art is, malo. Kudos to you. I liked it. I will definitely keep it in mind when I have an opportunity to discuss 'what is art' with others. 

    greenkozi, what you're talking about is something created by motivated people. These are people who go out and paint. I'm not saying paint is needed to make art... not trying to define art all. Just saying it takes some type of inspiration or motivation at the very Least. But, the people who 'worked' on the 'art' in plexus were lazy people sitting at their PC with nothing better to do. There's no motivation there. There's just bored people playing around with a game. Toying around is not art in my opinion.

    When I was at the dinner table and I would play with my catsup and swirl it around on the plate making designs... no one would call that art. People would say I'm playing with my food. And to Stop That. Same thing here. You're all just playing with your food. Not that I care if you stop or not. I use to play with food when I was a little kid, so I can relate.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • MDawgg, I just can't quite write you off...you always lead with maximum bluster, and I am not sure what purpose it serves for you, but your second pass is always much more considered, and I then end up sticking with you.  Please note: sticking with you is not, by any stretch, the same as agreeing with you about art.

    Maybe you have mellowed, I am grateful not to have the memories for comparison!  A prick in D minor, I guess.  Just remember though: D minor is "the saddest of all keys".

    malo: you articulate sumbitch~ "well put" seems insufficient.
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dawgg,

    Here is what is absurd.

    " But, the people who 'worked' on the 'art' in plexus were lazy people sitting at their PC with nothing better to do. There's no motivation there. There's just bored people playing around with a game. Toying around is not art in my opinion."

    "In hindsight, I shouldn't have said I hate people who whine. I don't. Well, I would hate someone who constantly whines, probably. But, I mean, whining itself aggravates me. Yes, I could ignore it. But, I was just messing with NMBW. I mean her no ill will as a person. I just was messing with her because she was being a whiner at the moment."

    Yet you're not a prick anymore?

    Either this is a game in which everything has no consequence, since it is not real life, or it acts as an analogy to real life, in which we play out actions on this given stage.  I think the latter is true.  Some of us want to be super rich, some want to be super skilled, some want to achieve the most, others like a peaceful life wandering about giving stuff away and some like to bend the seams of the game to create art.

    Since you argue the former, then everything you do to put whiners in their place or to put any player in their place for not really creating art simply makes you seem just as much as a pathetic ass as you seem to think of these people - this is just a toy to you, right?  You're toying with people's heads because they aggravated you.  You are the hierophant who is so self-important that they must condemn others who are playing a game with their free time.

    This is wholly different than making a point or an argument.  While I disagree with some of the posters in this topic, I respect what they are saying.  I do disagree with your art 'argument' (it's really a slam against people playing a game, not a cogent rebute as to what is or is not art), yet there is zip, zero, nada to respect since you contradict yourself in the most absurd manner by telling people they are absurd when you are actually being as absurd by your own definition.

    I don't get players who enjoy being pricks.  I simply don't grok the position that pricky antagonists are needed to make a game interesting.  That isn't interesting to me, it's just pathetic.  I don't know how you play the game since I never run into you in the game, so I don't know if you act like a prick in-game or not.  But reading you here, you like to get under someone's skin so I assume you're getting off on it somehow.  So.... um... if it's just a game, a toy, then wtf, Dawgg?  You're mocking characters on a computer screen, yourself, and chiding them so that the whiners are put into their place for aggravating you.

    Can you recognize the absurdity?

    If you think this stuff isn't art, great, hooray for you, art's pretty subjective in the end.  But if people are playing this game differently than you are by creating what they think is art and then expressing opinions about what happens to it, what exactly is it doing for you (or for anyone else) to mock them, taunt them, put them in their place (how are you so above this game as a toy to even do so?) or belittle them?  Are you yourself not simply just someone toying around with other people's emotions, sitting at your PC bored with nothing better to do?
    Posted 17 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "If you think this stuff isn't art, great, hooray for you, art's pretty subjective in the end.  But if people are playing this game differently than you are by creating what they think is art and then expressing opinions about what happens to it, what exactly is it doing for you (or for anyone else) to mock them, taunt them, put them in their place (how are you so above this game as a toy to even do so?) or belittle them?  Are you yourself not simply just someone toying around with other people's emotions, sitting at your PC bored with nothing better to do?"

    +1 zeeberk
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • malo, we could discuss art theory for hours, i think, with a 6pack of good beer, and i'd leave a happy girl.

    mr dawgg- i go back and forth on what you're saying- can there be "art" in a video game? (art in quotes for consistency with your point.) sometimes i think, well, mr dawgg is downright right- of course not! but my mind splits in two directions here. one, if i understand glitch right, or at least the players' take on glitch, it's not "just a game," in that you aim for killing the badguy, or beating each other at a specific competition, or even reaching a goal. it's a place to live a mini-pixelated life, and part of that will be the creation of beautiful things, and art. (and of course, comes the flipside- the destruction of beautiful things)

    the other place my mind takes me in the question "can there be 'art' in a video game?" is of course "what is art?" and that, mr dawgg, is something that goes right back to your suggestion that murals, graffiti, etc are art and ketchup on a plate is not. right there, you've proved a very big point: many MANY people would say that graffiti is not, and if you've been to any hipster galleries or large, well funded Modern Art museums lately, you'll see that things very close to ketchup on a plate is.  i certainly don't know the answer, but i'm not ready to say that "dropped food" (pixels given heavier meaning) in a video game, collaboratively placed to make something beautiful, is not art.
    Posted 17 months ago by greenkozi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Going to try to keep this one short because I felt I've already said what I need to say in regards to my opinion on the matter. 

    But, I just want to say that I think the issue that you guys have with me is that I don't varnish my opinion. I just say it how I feel/think. How does that benefit me? Here's how. At the end of the day, I can say I was 100% honest with how I felt. I didn't wear masks nor did I pretend that I'm something that I'm not. That's very important to me. I'm not trying to make friends or enemies. I'm just trying to express my opinion. If you agree, cool, if you don't agree, cool. Form your own opinion and feel free to share it. I think that's what a discussion is.

    After re-reading some of my posts, I realized I didn't neutralize my language enough. So, whenever I say 'how sad' or 'how absurd'  or calling you guys 'pseudo-intellectuals' (which I should have left to myself) or whatever... realize that it's just My Opinion based on My Value Systems. Here's the kicker... I know *none* of you took it personally. If someone did, I apologize. I wasn't trying to offend or hurt people's feelings. I was only trying to express my opinion. 

    Ok, I was going to try to keep this short, but Zeeberk, you've provoked a longer response from me. 

    Zeeberk, I don't see how your quotes from me make me out as a prick? I apologized and explained what I should have said in one. The other I was stating, likely, what happened, or at least a reasonable interpretation of what happened or could have happened.  I don't get what you're trying to say here. Also, you *are* trying to offend me or insult me. So, I don't know why that either. I don't really have anything against you.

    The gist I get of your post, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you think I'm calling people absurd for liking the art because actions in the game have no consequence. Let me explain my stance on absurdity. The absurdity is the 'what is art' aspect of it. It's absurd to me to call that art. That is all. That is the end of what I was talking about in regards to the word absurd. Having said that, I do not agree with your extremes about what the game 'is' in regards to consequence.

    "Either this is a game in which everything has no consequence, since it is not real life, or it acts as an analogy to real life, in which we play out actions on this given stage." -ZB

    I simply don't agree with that. I don't see why people do this. It's not just you. People feel the need to force things into some type of 'this way' or 'that way' definition. I just don't think that's the right approach for most things. Can it be something in the middle? Diverge... could it be something else entirely that we haven't imagined? Also, this is a dumb argument with no satisfying end itself. We could argue life itself has no meaning or consequence. So I advise we just end this here.

    And, I did *not* argue the former at all. In fact, I stated for emphasis, that I felt playtime and toys have value. Scroll up and read my post. It's at the end. Here, I'll repost it for you. 

    "Also, I don't want to leave the impression that I feel toys aren't important. Toys have value, and playtime has value. But it's not the same amount or type of value that some of you apply to it. " -MD

    Now you might reply using this quote from me. But, but, Mr. D you said, "Your actions in this game don't have special meaning or purpose." Note the use of the word 'special.' They do not have special purpose. Special in that your inane actions in the game do not, in fact, produce 'art.' In my opinion of course. Some people's opinion, sure, they have special purpose, but I think that's dumb. So, yes, your actions might have purpose (using 'might' here, because some people might argue that they don't have purpose, but note that I do feel that they do have purpose), but not special purpose (in my opinion). 

    "But if people are playing this game differently than you are by creating what they think is art and then expressing opinions about what happens to it, what exactly is it doing for you (or for anyone else) to mock them..."-ZB

    I wasn't mocking anyone for making the 'art.' (Read from me: "Again, I didn't say I didn't like what they made.")  I was mocking people for calling it art. I was mocking NMBW for being a whiner. I also do not agree with *any* of the anti-griefing ideas that have been proposed here, and in a way, I suppose, I was indirectly trying to voice my disapproval of them. Note that this acts as a direct voicing of disapproval if it wasn't clear before.

    "I don't get players who enjoy being pricks. "-ZB

    I know you didn't explicitly state that you were talking about my enjoyment factor of my supposed prickdome. But, I think it's safe to assume that you were. If you were, here's what I have to say. 

    I'm not trying to be a 'prick.' I was back then, but I don't feel that I am now. I do admit that I was more brazen than I should have been in my posts in this thread, but I don't feel I was terribly bad. I was teasing NMBW and having a bit of fun with it, sure. It's fun to tease people (to me it is). I don't think I was hurting her feelings or really making her upset. And if I did, I apologized, it wasn't my intent. And anyways, she was Annoying Me first by being a whiner. So, I decided to mess with her. End of story. No need for discussion. Also think about it.

    Should we really whine ever? Think about it. Does anyone actually like it when people whine? No. It annoys people. It never helps someone to whine. Life lesson, don't whine. Maybe some of the readers can take that from this thread and apply it to their lives. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This reminds me of someone I know and dislike. She likes to say "I'm not blunt/rude, I'm just being honest", thinking that's a licence to say hurtful things about others because "that's her opinion". I think you should always consider the effect your words can have on others, even online.
    Posted 17 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am rude, crude, blunt whatever. I am also honest. I am not trying to hurt others. If I did, I apologize. I can see how some of my posts could have come-off that way, and that is a fault of how I wrote them, and a fault of posting impulsively. Again, the thing is, I doubt anyone's feelings were hurt. So, there you go.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I happen to know that feelings were hurt.  And +1 to what Victoria said.  I have made it a policy to avoid people who use "honesty" as cover for being hurtful, boorish, or merely chronically insensitive.

    Sincere apologies mitigate hurt, but they do not erase it.  

    I'm not trying to be a 'prick.' I was back then, but I don't feel that I am now.

    Those of us who didn't interact with you then can't and don't assess your actions by your progress.  We only see what is in front of us now.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not like a committed an atrocity. Whoever was seriously hurt by what I said, I encourage them to give me a chance to make it up to them.

    Thanks.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not like a committed an atrocity.

    Um... no.  So anything short of that should not be discussed?  

    Because, for the most part, I see respectful discussion of what was, in the opinion of many, disrespectful behavior.  

    "It could be worse" isn't exactly comfort in any situation.  A lot of care and thought in Glitch (both at the dev and player level) goes into the community - what makes it flourish and what makes it fail.  This is a conversation worth having, IMO.  And that, I think, is what is also playing out in the corners of conversations like these.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You are also not making an effort to not hurt others. Which, to me, indicates you don't care about anyone else but yourself.
    If you would have some respect for people around you (even if it's just on a forum) you would think a tiny bit of how your words come across. Apologizing later on a forum can be quite easy.
    Assumptions is the mother of all F*ups. Don't assume people are not hurt by your words.
    Don't assume everyone's idea of "teasing" is the same.
    Freedom of speech is ok, but it's not a freedom meant to insult.

    And as to art: it's merely a definition.
    I wouldn't call the "hello" in items art either. I think it's a wonderfull project. I didn't think the end result was beautifull or very...dunno..impressive?
    But the idea behind it is. The process is beautifull, the teamwork, the cooperation. That people put stuff down without benefit, without gaining something from it other then fun. Nowadays everything needs an award or achievement else people aren't motivated. To see things like this happen  - the process of creating something together - that to me is valuable. And important.

    The Hello in items represented that process, was a visualisation of it. And therefore it weren't just dropped items. So maybe it was art after all.
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sort of offtopic here:
    About commiting atrocities: check the group La Resistance (most definitely NOT an assassins...
    (Which is totally not about killing trees.)
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmmm...

    Purpose - special or otherwise - would be based on the individuals or individuals participating in said action/event/occasion. Any single action/event/occasion will have a different purpose - special or otherwise - and perhaps no purpose at all - to the individual.

    Artistic expression exists throughout the game. Whether someone else feels it is art is immaterial. 

    Being respectful towards others should not be optional - regardless of purpose or art.

    That is all.
    Posted 17 months ago by g33kgurrl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jasbo, I'm not picking up what you're putting down. What I meant by my comment was that, even if I did hurt someone's feelings, it's not like I killed his/her mother or something (an atrocity). I made an offhand remark about something in a game (not an atrocity). And no, it really isn't worth discussing or becoming enemies over. If it is to someone, then I don't know what to say. I don't hold grudges over small things like that.

    I'm not using honesty as an excuse. I'm being honest. I'm *not* committing atrocities. I'm not pinpointing people and insulting them. In fact, as far as this thread goes, I've been insulted more than anyone else... and directly. Yet, my feelings are fully intact. Why would I assume that my comment would cause a serious disruption in someone's feelings? I really shouldn't. But, I even stated that it was possible that I did, and to whoever I did insult (likely someone not even posting), I apologized. I don't know what else I can do. If that person wants to reach out an olive branch, I will gladly try to make it up to him/her.

    If you guys would listen to me talk (face to face that is), it would be different. How someone interprets what I wrote, I can't help. I genuinely wasn't trying to insult anyone specifically or hurt anyone's feelings. But, I reread my posts, and I can see how someone might have interpreted it that way. But, I can assure you I wasn't.

    Not sure what else I can say. Ok thanks.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jasbo, I'm not picking up what you're putting down. 

    Okay.  Let me try to be more explicit.  

    Of course you didn't commit an atrocity.  And we are not holding war crimes trials here.  So why do you immediately jet off to extremes?  That's a weak rhetorical trick.  

    So, of course you are neither pushing the bounds of the worst of what humans are capable of and neither are we punishing you.  But you do continually minimize and deflect what seem to be reasonable concerns about your lack of respect for the other people playing the game (the atrocity comment and the "I'm sorry but NutMeg was being a whiner" comment are excellent examples of these).  You have, as Nanookie said, climbed down a lot.  That's interesting.  But saying, "Hey - I didn't do the worst thing I could possibly do to someone" is completely irrelevant and possibly an attempt at a distraction from the main discussion.

    Miriamele is right, I believe - you seem to expect that everyone does (or perhaps should) share your thick skin.  This is unrealistic.  I am with the others who don't understand the appeal in attempting to get a rise out of someone.  But I do know this is a fraught pastime, especially (as you note) when we can't see one another face to face and get subtler cues.  We're all in different emotional states when we're playing the game - some play for pure fun and relaxation, some for escape, some for expression, some for community... and anyone might be experiencing any one or all of those states (or more) on any given day.  Pausing before you pull the "messing with" trigger might be helpful.  
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dawgg, I agree with you that people are responsible for their own feelings.  But the idea that you had no idea of the potential impact of your words in your original post (way back when...when this thread was not about you), well, it boggles the mind.  

    Certainly you know exactly when you are serving up a shit sandwich, and I don't understand why you insist on always serving it up open-faced?

    Argh, enough on this!  Call it whatever you want, it was fun to do and I can't wait to do some more.
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This isn't a debate. I'm not trying to use rhetoric. I have no idea how intelligent you are, jasbo. I wanted to make sure we were on the same level as to what an atrocity was. As far as I could tell, you thought I *had* committed an atrocity. That was what I was trying to convey. I was using extremes to help define the word.

    Ok, if it's unrealistic for me to expect people to be thick skinned, it should be unrealistic... why is it so hard to believe that someone else may not share all of yours infinite tact. I'm not a tactful person. I just say how I feel. It's not because I don't care, it's because it's just how I am. 

    And as for teasing NMBW, you act, again, like I committed an atrocity against her. I said she needed her boo boo bandaged whilst she was whining like a little baby. It didn't even get a rise outof her at the time. She just brought it up on this thread and I really don't feel that it was even worth bringing up. Who Cares. Big Whoop. Again, I harbor no ill-will toward her, nor do I feel like she does against me, but if she does, I apologized, and I hope she understands that I was just teasing her.

    And no, I'm going to mess with people in GC. I do it all the time. It's not damning or anything. Just teasing. 

    NN, yes, I knew I was going to be met with opposition. But you guys started questioning me and my character instead of questioning what I wrote about the topic. So I am now replying in regards to what my character is and not what my posts were about. If you follow.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And as for teasing NMBW, you act, again, like I committed an atrocity against her.

    No.  I don't.  
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You said pulling the 'messing with' trigger

    Like a gun?
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wasn't being whiny. I was pissed. I was mad that someone hurt my friends. It didn't matter what they did or what they had done it to (regardless of if it was art or not) - they were destroying something that my friends were working on. I had no reason to be whiny about it- it was nothing that I had worked on or contributed to. I was frustrated. And you didn't help the situation. 

    Jasbo is completely right- you don't know WHY people are playing this game. You don't know where the cracking point for them is. Have you ever heard of the eggshell skull principle? I'm a tough girl, I've been through things you don't want to imagine. So I promise you, if I wanted to start "whining" about something, it wouldn't be a pixilated game. I was trying to stick up for those people who wouldn't stick up for themselves. 

    TL;DR = You're more than welcome to be a total ass to everyone, but don't expect people to respect you for it.
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sup NMBW, I know you weren't frazzled. But you did goad me into replying in this thread. Then everyone turned on me, and turned this thread into a thread about me which I didn't even want. I don't really care. I do have the obligation to defend myself though.

    As for whether you harbor ill-will, it seems so. I could be wrong, but whatever. If you want to let go of the grudge later, maybe we can let it be water under the bridge.

    See you there.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am not a forum moderator here but I am one elsewhere. This topic is beginning to head a direction that would be starting to tickle my "lock this thread" instincts pretty strongly. Just a heads up with regards to the actual moderators around here if you know what I mean.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This thread has become more interesting as I read it closer. 
    OK.
    Point one. A common problem people have is that they confuse the subjective meaning of any item of art with its objective definition as such. Art is any unique object created, intentionally or unintentionally,  through and by any medium whose nature is stimulate by one or more of the senses of any given observer, including any creator, - which includes the creator(s) - with one of the following effects: an emotional response or responses, identity or branding (the only effect that actually conveys specific information), reenforcement of thoughts or beliefs, or the focusing of attention on a source of attention.

    Point two. Griefing. The purpose of "griefing" is specifically to harrass, humiliate, or degrade another individual by attacking a specific area of personal enjoyment of that person. It is NEVER a minor issue. It's a form of intentional abuse of another person and that can never be justified. Even if it cannot be cause for arrest or other legal sanction it is still clinically a form of strong criminal behavior and usually reflects some form of personality disorder on the part of a the abuser or similar serious pathology. It is on the same order of anti-social conduct as rape and assault. Yes, THAT serious! And such conduct, by definition, is never responsibly justified. It worth noting that the person who did this changed their player name soon after. He's trying to hide. Unfortunately for him, his profile was recorded, and he's being tracked. It's additionally worth noting that he is rapidly trying to create a pool of friends under the new identity.

    Point three. Whining. Whining is a form of petulant complaining. That is, steady, persistent complaining over a trivial matter. Speaking up over abusive behavior after other positive avenues have been exhausted, either for your self or another victim of such, is never a trivial complaint.

    Point four. Game staff did not observe the activities that were the cause of complaint and would not possess any tools that would provide evidence as to who was telling the truth about what happened. They could only respond to what was being said in channels and try to take steps to keep matters from getting worse there.

    Point five. Mr. Dawgg is an intelligent individual who is reacting instinctively to personal attacks, real or perceived. That means he's simply been counter-attacking without critical thought. He really has been attacked. The argument pattern is well known in mental health circles. Personal accusation followed by a personal defensive re-accusation. Accusations are always a form of attack, and personal accusations are an attack on a person and are hurtful and destructive to both parties in the end. It's lose-lose. I can expand on this topic more, but this post is already getting overly lengthy.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Regarding art dismantling, I'm reminded of the Jimi Hendrix lyric: 
    so castles made of sand melt into the sea, eventually.

    Some art is ephemeral by its own nature, but art it remains.
    Posted 17 months ago by Widdershins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "When I was at the dinner table and I would play with my catsup and swirl it around on the plate making designs... no one would call that art. People would say I'm playing with my food. And to Stop That. Same thing here. You're all just playing with your food. Not that I care if you stop or not. I use to play with food when I was a little kid, so I can relate."

    uh .. i would call that art. life is suffused with art. it may also be suffused with self appointed arbiters of what isn't good enough to be art .. but it is suffused with art nonetheless. there's a great scene in the movie Basquiat which is about an Artist named Jean Michel Basquiat and was directed by an Artist named Julian Schnable which has a scene about exactly what you claim no one would say is art.

    since all you're doing is arguing from authority, i'm gonna take their authority over yours, kay?

    some people like kicking back and making judgements of what is and is not art based on "quality", due purely to ego. who determines quality? conveniently the person who also determines whether or not something is art or not. funny how that works.

    would you walk into a children's art class, hold up a scrawl of color that a child enjoyed making and that i'd enjoy looking at and say ..

    "that's not Art. teacher, you are a LIAR and should rename this "Play Class" instead of "Art Class". were you not aware that things are not Art unless they meet my standards for quality and slash or complexity?"

    art is a subset of play. or at the very least it can be a subset of play. ok. these are not mutually exclusive concepts. some people love the concept of mutually exclusive concepts so much that they construct entire world views based around them and really ought to marry the concept of mutually exclusive concepts.

     i mean, i like the concept of mutually exclusive concepts as much as the next guy, but you got to admire such fierce, unwavering, unapologetic loyalty. the kind of loyalty great marital relationships are built upon, surely.

    anyway. something doesn't have to be "Important" for someone to be a dickwad to destroy it.

    sand castles aren't Important, at least not most of the time. they are innately temporary in that is great and everyone gets that. they're little things we do that are creative and fun but won't last out the day and yet it is still a DICKWAD MOVE to kick over a sandcastle instead of letting the ocean claim it.

    i put DICKWAD MOVE in all caps coz "dickwad" is a technical term.
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eloquently stated striatic. And, ha, art class *was* play class at my school, but that's neither here nor there. I definitely agree that it was a dickwad move, but I still don't think it warrants game changes. Maybe how we interpret what art is or isn't is based on how we were raised. My parents told me not play with my food. Yours might have looked at your plate and called you a genius.

    And, yes, we're all speaking from our own authority. This isn't a debate. We don't need to cite our sources or provide proof. We're just people sharing our opinions. If we stay on topic and stay level-headed, we can come out learning something about one another and ourselves. 

    Like I keep rereading my posts, and in my mind, my inner monologue was like friendly and jokey... but still in your face. I can't really explain it. But I reread them, and I definitely see how it could be 'heard' as mean and hateful if read in that voice. So, I just need to neutralize my language in the future. I just type what's going on in my head without really giving it much thought. I don't really consider the consequence of what I write sometimes. I just go with my gut reaction. So, again, my bad, I can only apologize so many times. I sincerely did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok Mr. Dawgg, I think it's time you got a hug now!

    *hug*

    (yeah in a good mood, it's warm (not sunny though), son is making happye (but loud!) babynoises, we're going out for a walk... aaah life!)
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's like a kid in a sandbox calling his creations 'public art.' That's how absurd you guys are. Mr. Dawgg
    Exactly, everyone knows that sandbox creations throughout the world are art.

    A-dah! 
    Posted 15 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
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