Topic

Staff Topic

Changes, Nerfs, New Features and What's Happening

We have made many changes since launch. When we starting designing the underlying systems which power Glitch, one of the fundamental design goals was that changing anything, even while the game is running, should be as easy as possible. This was because we knew that no amount of Alpha or Beta or anything would get us to a version of the game that was "done".

Glitch 1.0, the launch day version, is like 1.0 of (hopefully!) any successful software product: the very first iteration that is "good enough" for public consumption. Everyone knows that the first "really good" good version is 3.0. By that scale, we are now 1.003 ;)

Some of the changes we make will be loved by more or less all players. Some will be met mostly with indifference by current players, but will make the experience better for new players. Others will be liked by some and not liked by others. But we will make changes that are loved by many and hated by few … or even loved by few and hated by many — just hopefully not many that are hated by everyone ;)

If you are reading this, it is likely that we will, from time to time, make changes that you hate. Maybe we did earlier today, or last week or at some other point in the past. We are sorry about this. We truly, earnestly, and with the best possible intentions want to bring joy and wonder and the pleasure of good company to people, not frustrate them, or make them feel punished or cheated or duped.

But, we need to make the best decisions for the game, for the majority of players … the things which make the most sense, the things that seem right. Sometimes we will be mistaken: sometimes we'll have bad data, other times we will just goof up.

When we are mistaken, we will always do our best to fix it. And when we truly believe  a change is for the best, we will stick with it, even if it makes some people mad because we think, in the long run, more people will have more fun (including, often, the people who were mad about the change when it first happened).

 * * *

We have been been nerfing a lot of stuff. Mostly, it works like this: we find dynamics in the game which create massively outsized incentives for people do something SO repetitive and boring that we can't believe they won't end up hating Glitch if they keep doing it (but they will keep doing it if nothing changes, because it is insanely profitable in the game).

For example: a player who made over 500,000 currants in a day turning milk to very, very stinky cheese while on no-no powder. Or several players who got 100s of 1,000s of XP from singing to butterflies after having consumed gurly drinks.  

If we don't change these dynamics, a very small set of "optimal" behaviors will end up dominating most players' time in the game, and hence their experience of the game. And since the rewards are so big, the result of their behavior will be felt by other players in terms of inflation and distortions in the economy.

(We want to move to floating prices and reduce the number of things vendors sell, to create a more interesting player-player economy, but if a handful of players can produce effectively infinite money, that won't always work.)

 * * *

In addition to the price of cheese or teleportation scripts, the number of offers given by The Rube, the number of times you can do X action in a game day, etc., there are more complicated issues, like mining, bonuses, and places like Ajaya Bliss. In the case of Ajaya, we need to avoid having one location in the game that is "overpowered" vs all other locations (we also don't want a homogenous world, but that's another issue).

A combination of factors lead to an overpowered "optimal set of actions" in Ajaya Bliss. As a by-product of that, a great community developed where people were working together and co-ordinating, planning, discussing, strategizing, etc. We needed to break the pattern a bit and as a by-product of that, we might have screwed up an interesting emergent bit of play and a cool community hub.

The latter was definitely not our intention or the purpose of the changes. But, the lesson we took away was: we need to REALLY get moving on dynamics which give larger, co-ordinated/co-operating groups of players a reward that has at least as much (or more) in-game incentive as comparable solo activities.

We are working hard on that: most of our biggest projects now involved groups/group activities. We believe we have very good things cooking in that regard and most of our recent design conversations are about that very topic.

We also have many other features and bits of content in various states of completion (including a few in final QA, so "soon, soon") and we are looking extremely hard at all the qualitative and quantitative data we can get our eyeballs on.

During the first month after beta (we're a week in now) we know we have to be 70% "on deck" for issues that arise as we grow, scaling, support for new players, improving abuse report processes, new bugs from the increased load, etc., etc. But in the 30% we have for moving older high-priority projects along or introducing new smaller features & content, we will really do our honest best to make something that you love.

Love,

— The Whole Team

Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • I think the quantity selection of food items like milk is great, but still needs tweaking - it's not entirely intuitive yet. I'm still ending up with different quantities than I intend at times due to "all" or "1" being executed rather than the number when I press Enter. I know it's happened when the default number was the one I wanted.
    Posted 14 months ago by gimmegames Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well Stoot said that they changed the name of the drinks, and this was a well written post about changes to the game, and perhaps the discussion about girly vs gurly is better suited in its own thread?
    Posted 14 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • pretty sure stoot meant that he changed the typo he originally made in the original post, fwiw...
    Posted 14 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just in case it's somewhere out there and I've missed it, is there an official list of changes anywhere? It's not a big deal if it's not, it's just that as a developer myself I'm used to obsessing over changelogs.

    EDIT: Never mind, I just noticed it in the BIG RED BOX at the top of the forums. Ignore me. :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Ninetailed Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks, stoot -- and everyone else in TS -- for being so open with us.  I may not love all the changes/nerfing but I do appreciate your openness in telling us about them.  AND your willingness to change things back based on player comments.  So  -- bring back the Mike Tyson grill, please!  "Famous Pugilist Grill" just doesn't cut it! :P
    Posted 14 months ago by Marla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the Famous Pugilist  change.  It reminds me of back when Apple had to re-name one of their ill fated (they finally gave up on it and just bought NeXT) 'next gen operating systems' Butt Headed Astronomer because Carl Sagan complained.

    This has been a fun thread, but it is sort of spilling out of bounds.  Thank goodness that is mostly tolerated here.  We can all parade around waving our various little flags.  Ain't freedom grand!?!
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ stoot barfield: I think the clause in the TOS that states unwelcome conduct and content includes text that is , "otherwise objectionable" covers just about everything. However, if you are going to be updating the TOS as Cerulean suggests to include prohibitions against sexist and homophobic language, please include prohibitions against anti-religous language as well.
    Posted 14 months ago by BarryW Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe instead of changing every little thing that some person has an objection to, everybody could grow a thicker skin.

    I don't want to see Glitch turn into a world inhabited by humorless but politically correct people.  I already live in a town like that irl.

    Q: how many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?
    A: that's not funny!
    Posted 14 months ago by Merrilea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Splendora: I do not think we need to worry about running out of repetitive actions any time soon! (And the point about neuro-atypical players is really interesting: we've had a bunch of different people write in, from a player who recently suffered a minor brain injury in a car accident to an older player who has had a stroke in the past, all saying that playing Glitch makes them more alert, responsive and gives them a sense of being mentally "healthier"). It is just when the reward gets totally out of proportion to the action that we need to make changes.

    Kyr: Yes, that is more or less the plan (but "removing the scaffolding" will take quite a while and require a bunch of intermediary steps so we don't spin totally out of control).
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "And the point about neuro-atypical players is really interesting: we've had a bunch of different people write in, from a player who recently suffered a minor brain injury in a car accident to an older player who has had a stroke in the past, all saying that playing Glitch makes them more alert, responsive and gives them a sense of being mentally "healthier")"

    I owe napabeth twenty bucks. :D
    Posted 14 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol Merrilea. And I agree re:politically correct.

    As for Cerulean's 'issue'...Cerulean I'd like to say that I applaud what you do in real life, and your passion for it (and your QUILTBAG group) is commendable. However, with this being a 'game' and all, I just hope you take more time to actually play the game and enjoy it rather then focus so much attention on 'political correctness', especially here @ Glitch where I don't think much policing is really needed. This is not saying that I think your wrong or that I even disagree with you, but Glitch has to be one of the most non-threatening, safest places for any QUILTBAG to be playing...so please...go play!
    Posted 14 months ago by Sir Mixalatte Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Merrilea: "Maybe instead of changing every little thing that some person has an objection to, everybody could grow a thicker skin."

    I completely agree with you.
    Posted 14 months ago by BarryW Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks stoot for the great OP...I frankly found the changes to rube and the locked locations (ie, no more teleporting) refreshing and much better for game play and fun.  Yea, I'm probably in the minority, but I don't like things handed to me too easily...would rather work them out the hard way. To me figuring out how to get a key to a location, or trying to weigh the options of a trade with Rube knowing I have a limit now, make the game more challenging, and therefore more fun!  Keep it up.  Even with a lot of the nerfing going on to counterbalance the world, I find the more the challenges (ie, the mood thing), while a bit of an annoyance at first, really helps me work my noodle and figure out optimal ways for me to play the game (which may be different than for others), and makes for a much more enjoyable game overall...so...from probably a lone voice in the wilderness (or is it the swamplands)...thanks!
    Posted 14 months ago by ~Pink Flamingo~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What will the voting system be used for when (or if) it is ever implemented? Because that is a unique feature that seemed designed to prevent changes hated by the majority of the community and/or respond to things desired by the community. By the time this system is implemented, it seems like there will be little left of value to cast a vote on.

    This isn't a complaint about all or many of the changes, some irked me, others didn't. I think we all come from different perspectives, and I hope that you devs do keep in mind that some people enjoy and are soothed by repetitive actions, and look forward to playing after a long day, and by playing I mean harvesting huge quantities of x and y in order to [verb] up endless batches of z (I'm not naming my personal obsession for fear that will be nerfed, but if you were really curious you could check your logs anyway to find my poison). Sure, there's xp benefits that go along with it, but that's not why I do it.

    Finally, I don't get some of the changes that might seem minor to most. Those changes are part of the whimsy of the game. It seems that the game is becoming less and less whimsical as time goes on. Famous Pugilist Grill? Really? Did the Mike Tyson Grill really offend THAT many people? I really hope the crab doesn't start handing out cans of tomato juice flavored with a touch of crab. I also hope that you all at Tiny Speck don't keep dumbing down that part of the game or, I guess, PC neutralizing, because I'm pretty sure, given enough people, there will be people offended over every aspect of the game. That's the nature of the internet, it's a place for large masses of people to wax dramatic over the most bizarre "offenses"  Thing is, the more it's neutralized, the more I feel like I'm playing a slightly more quirky version of the Sims Online, but the "slightly more" is probably not enough to keep Glitch from ending up (for me) like the Sims Online (abandoned by me). But I am just one person...
    Posted 14 months ago by Eureka Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, Eureka: "By the time this system is implemented, it seems like there will be little left of value to cast a vote on."

    This is day 11 post launch. We are about 0.03% of the way through "what will be of value to cast a vote on". These changes are very minor … the kinds of things we can squeeze out while we are figuring out how to scale the world and support processes more effectively. The larger, more significant projects will take a lot more time and we are moving in the direction of being able to add stuff faster.

    I'm sorry you didn't like losing the Mike Tyson name: to me, it was a discordant annoyance, because it was the one thing in a game which referenced something specific in the real world. Everything else is "pure Glitch" and so it always stuck out funny. But it has nothing to do with "dumbing things down" or "political correctness".
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just want to pipe in and stand on #TeamGlumPudding. I agree whole-heartedly with everything s/he's said (save the Plexus, part because I've never been there). All these changes have made the game not fun. I'm even talking my husband out of playing (he has an account), because I know that these little things are all going to add up to him being annoyed.
    Posted 14 months ago by Jarhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dearest Stoot, I stand corrected.

    P.S. Thanks for clearing that up about the Mike Tyson Grill. Please note, my perspective was coming from the thread where a couple people complained bitterly about referencing a convicted rapist in the game.
    Posted 14 months ago by Eureka Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is day 11 post launch. We are about 0.03% of the way through "what will be of value to cast a vote on". 

    Wow!  I think Stoot just promised us that the game was going to last 36,666 days.  That's just over 100 years!  I am elated to know that I'll be able to play glitch for the entire rest of my life.  

    We can hope the game stays up and is vital and interesting enough to have stuff to cast votes about for that long, can't we?  

    Or did I do the math wrong?
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • BarryW -- It doesn't cover just about everything because it's so subjective.

    As for religion -- well, for one thing, religion is a choice. Biological sex and sexual orientation are not. Though I do not agree with oppressing anyone of any faith, athiesm and antitheism in themselves can be considered belief systems or "religions" and I can only wonder how something can be defined as anti-religious when it might actually be pro-religious in some way?
    Posted 14 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cerulean is my favorite commenter in this thread.

    And {{{Kazak}}}
    Posted 14 months ago by Jarhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Insofar as "gurly" can't be much of anything besides a play on "girly", it sounds to me like it also references something in the real world that isn't in Glitch. I'm not up in arms over the gurly drinks, but they have struck me as less than purely Glitchy. Aren't Glitchens canonically genderless? 

    Perhaps Glitch will open up a magical new area called Gurlia that's in some way devoted to the fine art of fruity drinks. Or something. If not, it's just a bit off-key, imho.

    Also, +1 to glum pudding.
    Posted 14 months ago by Dulcinea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Parrow Gnolle Or did I do the math wrong?

    Maybe or maybe not, but I think he was really just pointing out my dramatic wrongness :D

    Dulcinea Insofar as "gurly" can't be much of anything besides a play on "girly", it sounds to me like it also references something in the real world that isn't in Glitch. I'm not up in arms over the gurly drinks, but they have struck me as less than purely Glitchy.

    Crabato is also a reference to something not purely Glitchy. Glitch God works in mysterious ways.
    Posted 14 months ago by Eureka Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I will admit to being on #TeamPurty mostly because I'd like a Purty Mouth badge for drinking enough Purty Drinks.
    Posted 14 months ago by Dulcinea Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, chickens also exist in the real world ;)  — what I meant was, the only proper name (though there are other exceptions, like the Ludwig Wittgenstein action figure, Ayn Rand doll, etc. … I guess I just see those as "funny enough").
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot: I get it, I get it (and I'd really like the Ayn Rand doll that's taunting (taunted?) us in the encyclopedia, that is funny). I also think a bit of needling is a nice way to balance the lovefest. Balance is important, right ;)
    Posted 14 months ago by Eureka Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I will admit to being on #TeamPurty mostly because I'd like a Purty Mouth badge for drinking enough Purty Drinks.

    Yes, please!

    (This made me snort soda out my nose...)
    Posted 14 months ago by EnnuiStreet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • At the time, I thought it was a bit overly PC to change the grill. But now I agree... I see the new name and smile - it's pure Glitch which the old name never was.

    And +1 for the new region of Gurlia
    Posted 14 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think a Purty Mouth badge would bother me way more than Gurly Drink does. Jus sayin.
    Posted 14 months ago by Abby Smalls Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Needling is good! And any ol' kind of criticism is fine :)
    Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree 100% with Glum Pudding and TJ Fuzzybut! And I hate, hate, hate the idea of "removing the scaffolding." I've already explained myself in the thread on this subject, but in a nutshell, I want to have fun in the games I play. I have no interest in playing games that become WORK. I truly hope that you leave some aspects of this game as they are. I have no problems with nerfing things that get out of whack, but please, don't make this a completely different game. I paid for the game that I fell in love with. I'd hate for it to become a completely different game before my subscription even expires.
    Posted 14 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • News skills Today?
    Posted 14 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
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