Topic

Increase Yields on Herb Harvests Please!

Herb harvests are pretty terrible, considering the massive number of herbs required to make tinctures, potions, etc.

Personally, I feel croppery should effect all crops (including herb crops) - giving you higher yield for higher skill in it.

Herbalism I and II should effect shucking (but this also should be increased a tiny bit) as well as allowing for the ability to plant herbs in the first place (maybe).

Either way, if this keeps up, tree poison (etc) will, when it gets on the market, remain INSANELY expensive to make / use

:-(

Posted 13 months ago by ✦ SHI∇IΔΠ ✦ Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • The yields do seem really unbalanced compared to crop harvesting.
    Posted 13 months ago by Knitomaton Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think we should be able to grow herbs in our crop garden plots. There are thousands and thousands of people playing Glitch, and there are like three community herb gardens for people who don't live in Jethimadh, Shimla Mirch, Kalavana, or Chakra Phool. AND the harvest is low, AND people pick your stuff if you don't watch.
    Posted 13 months ago by puffsandberg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Shucking has always been a bit of a rip-off, even with Herbalism II there doesn't seem to be much (if any) benefit to shucking yield. One seed for one herb flower? Cheezy.
    Posted 13 months ago by Eleanor Rigby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • while this is true ~ it has always been.  I can't agree that just because they have released some new skills that require the use of herbs and now many people are changing their minds about their importance that yields should be increased. Kinda one of those things that you wish you had planned for, but, oopsie, didn't...so now you gotta be a little patient.
    Posted 13 months ago by Firestone1960 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While it has always been that way, does not mean it should remain.  For example, with Herbalism II and a 12 plot garden, you only net 6 Rubeweeds per growing cycle if you want to keep some seeds to replant.  I'm not saying it needs to be at the level crops are, but a little bump would be nice.
    Posted 13 months ago by Shootsin Latters Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What does "bump" mean?
    Posted 13 months ago by Mr. Eh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think "bump" is the opposite of "nerf".
    Posted 13 months ago by Otto Otto Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd rather them keep the yield than nerf the essences, if those are their only options. 

    And I don't know what Eleanor is talking about, because I get 2 seeds per herb. 

    An herbalism III that gives three seeds might be nice, but otherwise,  I suspect they would just have to multiply the number of herbs required in essences or make essences next to useless. 

    No thank you. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Smaug: Hoardkeeper Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Herbal Sauce, how recently have you shucked a Hairball flower?  I have only ever gotten more than one seed from shucking a Hairball when the rare SuperHarvest kicks in.
    Posted 13 months ago by Eleanor Rigby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The revamped housing will allow us to customize our new homes. This may mean the ability to put in herb gardens even if you don't live in the bogs.
    Posted 13 months ago by BarryW Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Herbalist III!
    Posted 13 months ago by Milolin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree the yields are too small. I never cared before because the herbs by themselves are almost worthless, so there used to be no reason for me to grow them.
    Posted 13 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For real!  I agree with this 100%.  +1
    Posted 13 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Previous to tinctures, I grew mostly hairball flower and used it regulary. Even then, the return on a harvest was problematic. I think an herbalism III would help a lot. Alternatively, stack the effects of croppery and herbalism somehow.
    Posted 13 months ago by MrVolare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the idea that housing has one or the other (crops or herbs). If herbs grew everywhere, they would become even less valuable than they are already perceived to be.
    Posted 13 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are plenty of things in the game that I don't have any interest in doing (like street projects or rook-repelling or smelting and a couple more) but I do like growing things. I'm perfectly willing to purchase or trade services for stuff I don't want to do, but I would like to have the freedom to do the things I enjoy.

    I want to grow both crops and herbs.
    Posted 13 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe they can put all types of rocks, trees, a peat bog, jellis, and every other resource in our homes, too! I mean its not fair that i should have to travel anywhere to collect *anything*, right?
    Posted 13 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm with Flowery Pott, there are many parts of the game that aren't my thing but I like growing stuff.  I'm hoping with customizable houses that we'll be able to do both.  
    Posted 13 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would like to grow crops in my house as well, but I think better of it because if I and every other bog dweller did, produce would be worth next to nothing. Is that what you deserve for harvesting your crops? Nothing?
    Posted 13 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the devs say we will get to grow herbs and crops in the same space soon
    Posted 13 months ago by Jake Doggifier Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jake Doggifier  - where'd you hear that?
    Posted 13 months ago by Knitomaton Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I didn't mean that at all, Bruja.

    1) Produce is already worth next to nothing. Practically all of my produce goes to feeding my piggies because it's not worth even the minimal effort it takes to sell them. Even cooking meals and selling them doesn't bring in enough currants to balance the energy spent to make them.

    2) You're absolutely right that glitchen should not have all the resources in their homes. I love walking around in the world to beef up the supplies I can't create in my home. But all types of rocks, trees, peat, jellisacs and dirt piles are widely scattered throughout the land and easily available. That's not the case with herbs. The community gardens are completely unworkable; there's no way to guarantee that I would even be able to get a crop with all the stealing that goes on there. I also don't have hours to spend standing there guarding the crop until it matures.

    I just want to grow stuff. That's what I enjoy.
    Posted 13 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Produce is worth next to nothing because it can be bought from vendors for real cheap. Herbs can't be bought anywhere but at auction, and the gauging going on there right now is phenomenal. At the moment, it makes very little sense to have anything but a bog home: regular gardens aren't really necessary because everything you can get from them can be bought from a vendor. Herb gardens, on the other hand, are absolutely essential, and the products you can make with them are worth so much you will have no problem affording all the vegetables in Ur with them.
    Posted 13 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ... until such time as produce, like cocktails before them and even hooch just recently, are no longer available from vendors.
    Posted 13 months ago by Eleanor Rigby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry, I may be taking it all a bit seriously, eh? Pixel money brings out the worst in me :(  
    I guess I just don't see the motivation for anyone to want to live in the bogs unless they have a craft that is special to them, such as herb gardening. Other than that, there's only fuel and block makers around most of the streets. Its pretty deserted most of the time; I know that I myself would have wanted to get a house in Andra or Salaatu where there's more people, bigger houses, and more room to grow stuff but I'm drawn to the bogs because of the herbs and potion-making skills. 
    Posted 13 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I decided to see just how unbalanced things really are and what impact this might have on potion availability and what not. I gathered a metric batbuttload of guano and planted a full crop of each herb. I then shucked them all (that was a bit painful after selling these things for insane profit the last few days ;)). Admittedly, the sample size is small, but to make up for that on the more variable herbs (Silvertongue & Yellow Crumb) I also shucked a dozen or so that I had hoarded. The spreadsheet of my results, can be found here. I also included the known crop yields for comparison. Keep in mind that all numbers consider a 12 plot herb garden and herbalism 2, as that's what I have. I did break it down for a single plot but really just divided my figures by 12... so.

    Here's the gist of it though...

    Flower Yield:
    Gandlevery, Hairball, Rookswort, & Rubeweed are the more "stable" herbs. You will get 1 flower per plant and, assuming Herbalism 2, you will get 2 seeds for each flower you shuck. This means that if you plant 12 plots and shuck enough to plant again, you will get 6 flowers & 12 seeds from each harvest.

    Silvertongue & Yellow Crumb are a bit crazy. You will always get 3 flowers from a planting, but shucking is incredibly variable and prone to failure. I've ranged from 6-16 when shucking stacks of 9 Silvertongue. However, you'll probably find an average of 1.3-1.4 seeds per flower. (of course you won't get a partial seed). Even with the potential failures while you recoup your seeds, you can still walk away with over 25 flowers per 12 plot harvest. 

    Stability & numbers wise, Purple is your best bet (though, because it's so cheap - you won't make as much profit). You'll pick 3 flowers for each planting, and will average 2 seeds for each flower you shuck. I am not sure how variable this is, because I shucked about a bags worth before doing the math, but it came out exactly at 2. Each harvest, then, will get you 30 flowers and 12 seeds.

    Considering this, shucking seems to be working ok (I've seen a bunch of complaints & concerns about this, too, so I was interested). While it's always crushing to do, especially when there are failures, the numbers seem to be coming out ok in the end. But, until you have herb skills, it's probably in your best interest to get seeds in other ways (whether through auction, taking your chance in the ancestral lands, or having a skilled person shuck for you). 

    What does this mean for essences?
    Gandlevery: 2 Essence per harvest
    Hairball: 1.2 Essence per harvest
    Purple: 1.3 Essence per harvest
    Rookswort: 1.2 Essence per harvest
    Rubeweed: 1.2 Essence per harvest
    Silvertongue: 6.9 Essence per harvest
    Yellow Crumb: 4.5 Essence per harvest

    What does this mean for potions?
    I don't want to spoil recipes while they're still not widely known, so I'll keep this a bit vague. However...

    Amorous Philtres: 1 harvest plus... depending on what you have from other harvests
    Charades potions: Multiple can be made from a single harvest.
    Elixirs of Avarace:  1 harvest plus... depending on what you have from other harvests
    Rainbow Juice: Multiple can be made from a single harvest
    Tree Poison: 1 harvest (though accumulation can bring this down a bit).
    Tree Antidote: Multiple can be made from a single harvest

    Ancestral Spirits, Door Drink, Keycutter Tonic, Potion of Animal Youth, & Rook Balm are all unknown to me.

    Clearly, the more social potions will be easier to make and obtain in quantity - which is very cool. What's slightly worrying is the tree poison & antidote as demand for them will be high. If demand for those remains high (necessary for quest & achievement purposes), they could drive the price of herbs and the other potions.

    I started this experiment thinking herb yield and shucking rate should be slightly adjusted. I'm not sure that's the case any longer. Sure, the big fancy crop gardens in the Alakol mansions produce insane amounts of veggies, but profit wise & plot for plot, herbs are on par and, overall, are less used than veggies (you don't need to poison trees, say, as often as you need to eat something). Instead, the better approach would be to see how the poison market plays out and, if necessary, lower the number of herbs required for the essence it uses which would help meet that supply while not drastically altering things for the other herbs.

    Understandably, things are a bit crazy now and probably will be for a week or two. Demand is insane right now which has led to scarcity (whether real or perceived, I dunno). This won't always be the case. Plus, there was a bit of a shock when we all saw how much purple was needed for that essence, but purple is super easy & quick to grow. And, besides, it's not a potion that we all need in quantity - even as fun as it is :) 
    Posted 13 months ago by Vera Strange Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Are the shucking failures any better with herbalism II?  I shucked a stack of five purple and only got three seeds.

    Produce is has always been worth worth next to nothing because it's capped by the low produce vendor prices.  Letting people in bog houses grow produce won't suddenly make selling produce worse.
    Posted 12 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I posted a bug report about still getting shucking failures with Herbalism II and was told that they're looking into it. Based on the way other skills work, there shouldn't be any failures once you know the highest level of a skill.
    Posted 12 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm at herbalism I getting the failures.  I was wondering if it's worth learning II since I can only use community gardens.  Not getting a seed is painful when it takes so much time and guano to get any herbs.
    Posted 12 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've had quite a lot of shucking failures this weekend.  I have Herbalism 2 - didn't know to report it as a bug.   
    Posted 12 months ago by oscarette Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Vera, very nice work, but are you sure you get 3 yields per Silvertongue?

    I alwas get 2, in a, as you say, very stable manner.
    Posted 12 months ago by Louis Louisson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • hmmm - fairly sure that's what I got, but now you have me questioning myself. I'll do a round of it next go and let you know. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Vera Strange Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lucille Ball: I haven't seen much of any benefit to herbalism II. Don't necessarily take my word on it, though--it would be nice to hear from others on this (especially those that really pay attention).
    Posted 12 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was getting lots of shucking failures on herbalism I, I get far fewer (but still relatively common) on herbalism II and I've had that skill for weeks now.  It really depends on what herbs I'm looking to grow and since I predominantly use Rookswort (almost all the time) and hairball (when in the the AL) and those are significantly less prone to failure I don't notice it.  Purple still has the highest shucking failure rate for me but I almost never grow it.  (Well, I didn't before the new skills)

    With respect to the original poster, I think the yields are fine the way they are for Herbalism II, if they introduce herbalism III, then I would expect yields to slightly increase.  The only 'essential' potion to gameplay looks to be tree poison and it was the easiest for me to produce, so auction prices for that one should come down once there is adequate supply.
    Posted 12 months ago by Awesomasaurus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Even with herbalism II I've experienced  shucking failure with the purple flower.   Its rare, but it still happens.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Louis Louisson - I just did another round with Silvertongue. Every seed/plot gave me 3 flowers. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Vera Strange Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thats very strange, because I was also unsure and did another round and got 2 flowers per seed/plot.

    I have herbalism 2. How the hell can we be so different?
    Posted 12 months ago by Louis Louisson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Have to agree, herb yields are quite low compared to crops.
    Posted 12 months ago by Tanit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It depends on which herb you're growing. Silvertongue gives three, some give two, and some like Rubeweed give only one per plot. Generally, the more you get per plot, the harder it is to shuck seeds from. The one-per-plot herbs always give two seeds per shucking.
    Posted 12 months ago by Zigniber Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Louis: Looking at your skills, it looks like you don't have croppery. I wonder if that could be it? It doesn't quite fit the definition though, because I don't get twice what you do (and don't get 2 on the single yield flowers). 

    Anyone who possesses a Garden in their back yard would be wise to learn Croppery because anyone who knows Croppery will yield twice as much crop product from a plot (along with benefits to mood and XP).

    Oddness.
    Posted 12 months ago by Vera Strange Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One of the biggest differences from Herbalism and Gardening is you can buy the seeds for Gardening, but Herbs are pretty much in-world drops only (mostly Ancestral lands, from my experience). And even when I was just starting with croppery I got 6 or so per harvest. On herbs? With H1, I get 1 flower, except for purple's 3. That's gotta move up a bit.
    Posted 12 months ago by Evadrepus Terramere Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, I don't have croppery and I thought one of the advantages of having a herb garden (back in the days when herbs were not as fancy as now with potions) was that you don't have to learn croppery.

    I just did it again, and I still definitely have always and only 2 Silvertongue flowers per spot.

    Could others please write here what they get, especially if they don't have croppery? Or am I suffering from a very rare bug? A Silvertongue bug?

    I planted some Purple now, and I remember I also always got 2 flowers per spot. There seems to be a pattern here. Wherever you get 3, I only get 2. (Which is actually quite a lot given the relatively low yield of crops in general).

    Maybe there is some internal routine that lists them with "1.5", so I get 2 (rounded up) and you get 3 (double amount)? Sounds strange to me but I have no other explanation at the moment.
    Posted 12 months ago by Louis Louisson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can report that with Herbalism I and Croppery 3, I get 3 purp and 3 yellowcrumb per plot, per harvest.
    Posted 12 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Definitely would like to have better yields per herb harvest!  The only one somewhat reasonable is Purple, but they're all frustratingly low.
    Posted 12 months ago by Gizgazzuz Guziz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Okay. Tested it. Only 2 per purple.

    Sounds if I have to add Croppery to my list of skills. *sigh*
    Posted 12 months ago by Louis Louisson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I always get 3 silvertongues per harvest.

    tested with:
    - herb II
    - crop I
    - double guano
    Posted 12 months ago by Sare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I completely agree with you, Shiv! If they introduce higher levels of Herbalism and / or increase the amount you receive I think it would radically balance out the market for everything herb-related.
    Posted 12 months ago by Reznir Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Herb II, no croppery
    2 silvertongue
    2 purple (plus a bonus harvest)
    1 gandlevery
    2 yellowtongue

    Do I seriously need croppery to grow herbs???
    Posted 12 months ago by Eyan Thumbsen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Herb II, Croppery I
    3 purple (plus a bonus)
    1 gandlevery
    Posted 12 months ago by Eyan Thumbsen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the balance is fine. It forces people to specifically choose one type of herb to grow. Sure, if you want all kind of herbs, do so, but it will take more time. Also, with guano, the time it takes is reduced by a great bunch, so it is kind of easy to get a bunch of herbs in a short amount of time.

    Another thing that makes it painful is that we're use to have plenty (and I really mean plenty) of everything (meat, grains, milk, plank, fruits, etc.). Now that we get something that is slightly rarer, we all go D:

    I think it's for the best, otherwise, we will end up with yet another useless item that sells at vendor value in the auction.
    Posted 12 months ago by BTS0x0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks Eyan,

    seems as if we have to learn croppery indeed. Good to know that Crop1 is enough though, as it is a pretty fast skill. (It will lengthen the time for my other skills quite significantly, though.) And I feel a bit... irritated to find this out after so much time.

    Everybody always insisted croppery does not matter for herbs. :-/
    Posted 12 months ago by Louis Louisson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i agree, herb yields, especially rubeweed and hairball flower are highly diminished
    Posted 12 months ago by Seriandeur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lucille: Produce wouldn't become worthless if bog houses were allowed crops, but the food that chefs make with that produce most probably would not retain enough value to keep it profitable energy/resource wise. IMO same with herbs / potions. I do believe though that the flowers should be available at vendors for those who can't grow herbs but still want to make potions. After all, if I still wanted to cook I could buy the ingredients at the groceries vendor and get 'er done. Seems only fair that crop growers have that same option with potions.
    Posted 12 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am a chef.  I'm not sure what makes you think that having more crops available would change the profitability of food in terms of energy/resources. There are always auctions up at 80%+fees (or less) for food and drinks because of auction undercutting.
    Posted 12 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink