Topic

Is Better Learning V worth it?

Some cursory math tells me there's somewhere around 11-13 learning days' worth of skills available in Glitch. Now, for Better Learning V to save you enough time that it "pays" for what it cost, you'd need to learn 14-15 days' worth of skills (that's before we worry about cutting 20% off). So, accounting for the fact that my math is pretty rough, we can say it might be worth it if you learned all the Better Learning skills before learning anything else.

This seems wrong, though, so if somebody could double-check my math and/or leave a comment, that'd be great.

My math was as follows:
Better Learning V takes about 2 days, 20 hours (according to my skills page) to learn. For it to "pay" for itself, 20% of all the subsequent skills you learn must be greater than 2 days, 20 hours (68 hours), meaning that you'd need to learn 14.2 days' worth of skills after getting Better Learning V for the 20% cut to justify spending the initial 68 hour investment. Rough totalling leads me to believe that that's about how much the total time is for ALL the skills is. More generally,
payoff_time = learning_time / learning_time_cut
Here,
payoff_time = 68 hours / 20% = 340 hours.

Posted 23 months ago by RobotGymnast Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Cross-posting the answer to Rascalmom's question.... the full discussion is found under "Unlearning a Skill"
    http://beta.glitch.com/forum/general/2992/

    "To clarify, you would NOT be able to unlearn the lower level skills while retaining the higher level version (e.g., you could not unlearn Animal Kinship I, II, III, IV and V, but keep AK VI)."Posted 6 days ago by stoot barfield [staff] | Permalink
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Come to think of it, if learning BL V reduces skill-learning time by 20%, but it takes five skills' worth of learning to get BL V (each of which creates a 5% increase in skill learning time, under the new system), wouldn't that mean that learning BL V would increase your skill learning time by 27%, and cut it by 20%, thus leaving you with a 2% INCREASE in skill learning time?
    Posted 20 months ago by RobotGymnast Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps the BL skills aren't counted in the total of your skills? 

    Devs? 
    Posted 20 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I haven't seen it verified, but it sounded like each learned BL skill lets you learn 2 extra skills without penalty.  Maybe if you learn BL5 as the 40th skill, there is no penalty for finishing it plus the next skill?  Or it removes the most recent +5% when finished?  Or I misheard.

    [EDIT:  Did the math on what stoot said above.  I misheard, ignore this post.]
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Robot... you aren't considering the expanding threshold before the compounding 5% penalty applies.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe I need to think about this a bit more, but... If BL5 only reduces learning by 20% but as Stoot says above, every skill above the first 10 adds 5% to the previous total (compounded not simply additive). So, assuming your first 10 skills include all the BL skills up to BL5.

    Skill 11 now costs: x +5% -20% = 84%
    Skill 12 now costs: x*1.05*1.05*0.8 = 88%
    Skill 13 now costs: x*1.05*1.05*1.05*0.8 = 93%
    Skill 14 now costs: x*1.05*1.05*1.05*1.05*0.8 = 97%
    Skill 15 now costs: x*1.05*1.05*1.05*1.05*1.05*0.8 = 102%

    Hmmm... So I just invested all that time in skills that actually give me a 2% increase in the time taken complete the skill I would have been learning if I hadn't done any of the BL skills...  Hoping my maths is wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) or there is some other factor/bonus that I'm not aware of, otherwise it doesn't seem such a great idea...
    Posted 20 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Don't forget to consider that the Better Learning skills are supposed to alter the threshold at which the compounding increase in time kicks in.  Also, using this very simple example (which I suspect isn't correct because it isn't taking into consideration the variable threshold at all, but... if you didn't know any better learning, at Skill 15, the actual time to learn the skill would be 128% of base learning time instead of being potentially as high as 102% (assuming no effect on the compounded learning time threshold by BL5).  The real questions that I'm wanting to know are what are the thresholds for the different Better Learning skills, and until when are the BL skills worth learning?  (And possibly other questions that have gone AWOL from the brain at this moment.)
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes bob.. your math is wrong, rest easy :) 
    I didn't do the math myself.. but my "proof" :

    I went ahead and learned BL5  now Bueraucratic 3 is only about 9 days and 11 hours... I have learned 55 skills total.  Compare that to similar skills learned with lower B3 and I think some have that skill at something like 25 days

    I know Trav has something in the works with figuring it all out.
    Posted 20 months ago by RainyRain Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Better Learning skills are supposed to alter the threshold at which the compounding increase in time kicks in."

    Really? That might make the skills more attractive, I wasn't aware of that. Is there any published information on what the effect is? It's not mentioned in the skill descriptions...

    @RainyRain of course, my maths might be correct, but my assumptions or the provided information might be wrong...
    Posted 20 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Bob
    It's actually in the 3rd paragraph of the very post you linked:

    The better learning skills also now have an additional benefit: starting with BL II, the increase the number of skills you can learn before that 5% increase starts ticking in.

    I still need to do the reverse calculation (to be done a bit later because I have some things to do), but from the data gathered, I think we have enough information to figure out how BL2 affects things.  Now if only we can get more info for the other BL skill levels...  ^^;
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You get a net -3% on every skill you learn afterwards.  If it will only take 12 hours to learn the rest of the skills, forget it.  If it'll take weeks, grab that sucker.  Future super-long skills will make it a slam dunk.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "The better learning skills also now have an additional benefit: starting with BL II, the increase the number of skills you can learn before that 5% increase starts ticking in."

    Oh, that's annoying. That means I really should've learned them way earlier.
    Posted 20 months ago by RobotGymnast Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, I'd missed that other hint from Stoot, that should balance it out somewhat. Assuming the 5% increase holds solid with each skill learnt and the BL skills only also affect the point at which the counter for the increase starts, some rough calculations now give me for following:

    If the BL skills are free (basically the increase now kicks in at 15) then the skills still stop being worth it at skill 20. If the bonus is 2 (the increase kicks in at 20) then the skills stop being worth it at skill 25 -- effectively a chance to reduce the learning time of a further 15 skills. Starting to get more attractive.
    Posted 20 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's more attractive than your math shows.  Yours shows if it's more useful in the 5% penalty system than no penalty.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Surely it's exactly as attractive as my maths shows, it's just a question of how attractive that is to you...

    But yeah, with the raises in the point at which the increase over the base time kicks in, it does start to look more attractive than I had figured before, especially if that increase is 2 (or more). However, it's still a case of diminishing returns, which shouldn't come as a huge surprise...

    That said, it's never going to be as attractive as the non-penalty system, in that world a 20% reduction was always a 20% reduction on the base time, which with the numbers of skills that Stoot is promising was going to make a large difference overall.
    Posted 20 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What I meant was that math doesn't show whether BL5 is worthwhile.  It does show that the current skill system increased the time needed to learn all the skills. Tiny Speck's mission was accomplished.

    I'd fix the math, but it's a gigantic tangle of combinatorics. blech
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's why I haven't bothered publishing the math... no matter how you look at it, people learning skills with higher BL will have a significantly shorter time of it. The math istself isn't easy to type out, but I *will* eventually get around to it. I do have a data-shot effort going to figure out if I can see the threshold changes pop out. Only problem is, those thresholds are well below the 40 learned skills I've got data on so far.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have a couple of simplified scenarios.

    If you have your skill learning all mapped out, you can simplify it to:  (time to learn BL5) + (total learning time after BL5) - (total learning time for those skills without BL5)

    BL5 takes 2 days to learn, the subsequent skills take 14 days, they'd take 15 days without BL5.  Stick that into the formula and you get +1, waste a day with BL5.  If the 15 days were 13, you get -1, save a day.

    If you simply want to learn BL5 no matter what, you're always better off learning it.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, to be honest, the results isn't making a huge amount of sense to my addled brain, so it'd be best if someone better versed in math went through it.  From the info gathered, I'm getting the following #s:

    BL2 - Threshold kicks in at 22 skills learned with 3% increase in learning time per skill thereafter.
    BL3 - Threshold kicks in at 25 skills learned with 3% increase as above
    BL4 - Threshold at 28 skills, rest as above
    BL5 - tentative estimate of threshold at 32 skills, rest as above

    I'm not sure why all of the BL skills are showing a 3% increase in learning times, but that's what the numbers are giving me.  Maybe someone who's done HS maths more recently than >2 decades ago should go through this and see if they get the same numbers as I am or something different.  Raw data was from the FSR group topic requesting people to post their data for AK1 learning time, current BL level, and # of skill learned at the time of reporting.
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Something looks a little off... but you're darned close.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just learned better learning 5 (which took over 7 days), it looks to me that it was a complete waste of time. I know 70 skills, so I guess I get zero benefit for the increased threshold of massive penalties for knowing too many skills (from 28 to 32?). How long does it take to get 32 skills? A couple of days? Yet better learning 5 isn't available that early in the game, so how does this extremely low threshold even help? I guess if you have enough foresight to learn nothing but BL from the moment you start the game, it MIGHT have some usefulness to you... anyway...

    These are my numbers:

    Before learning better learning 4 it was going to take me 1 day, 0 hours, 27 minutes, 32 seconds to learn mining 3. After learning better learning 4, that was reduced to 22 hours, 3 minutes 9 seconds. I started learning better learning 5, then paused it to learn one more skill during a test. Right after that one skill was done, I started better learning 5 again and let it run all the way through. Unfortunately, I did not check to see how the times increased after learning that one extra skill, but after better learning 5 was done it will now take me 1 day, 2 hours, 1 minute, and 11 seconds to learn mining 3. The time actually increased to MORE than it was before learning better learning 4 and one other skill. It seems that since these better learning skills count towards the penalty for learning too many skills, and the threshold is so low for helping with the "too many skill" penalty, the benefits they give are just cancelled out (and then some) by the fact that they were ever learned in the skill tree.


    If this isn't a bug where BL5 isn't giving me the benefits it's suppose to, then these rewards need to be seriously tweaked. They should give some sort of measurable benefit, even if there are alot of skills learned. 32 skills is almost nothing in this skill tree, especially as it will be expanded in the future. This threshold is way too low, and the 20% reduction in learning time (if it's even working--which I'm skeptical about) doesn't seem to have much of a meaningful effect on the real numbers (maybe because the too many skill penalty is too high?) In my opinion, learning very high skill levels should give real, desirable benefits or people will just get angry about the time, quests, and donating to giants they had to do to achieve them. I'm not wholly sure that is the case right now.


    Perhaps the too many skill penalty should be reduced for more skills learned, rather than just having a cutoff where "you either get the penalty or you don't". (Example: If you know BL5, you get no penalty at less than 32 skills learned. At less than 40, you get 10% penalty. At less than 50, you get 20% penalty, etc., etc.) I also don't think the BL skills should count towards the penalty.
    Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Does the Encyclopaedia show the base times for skills you already have, but the actual cumulative time for skills you don't yet have?
    Posted 20 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What a mess.  I can't find anything good in a system which penalizes players for acquiring more skills.  At the very least, there should be no penalty for learning a set of skills called "Better Learning."  I understand that the staff wants to encourage specialization, but there must be better ways of doing it.
    Posted 20 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • RealJim... The Encyclopedia shows the true base learning time, with no adjustments whatsoever. The table on the Skill page shows your learning time, as adjusted by Better Learning. The Skill Queuer shows the actual time you have remaining to learn a given skill with all adjustments included.

    @Glum - closest real world analogy I can come up with is the higher education system. After you get past a certain point, learning takes longer. Phd research doesn't come fast.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Travinara - wow, I was assuming otherwise.

    Mining 3 (which I've got) shows in the Encyclopaedia for me as 16 hours, and Mining 4 (which I haven't got) as 11 days 8h 15m 10s. A bit of a jump in the base time there...

    The skills tree, however, shows M3 as 1 day 21h 22m 32s and M4 as 11 days 8h 15m 10s again.

    The differences (and similarities) would suggest that my assumption was right...  Although I agree that your explanation would actually make more sense -- the Encyclopaedia should be the 'reference' documentation, the skills tree is your personal view.
    Posted 20 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, to your second point (and @glum pudding). The PhD comparison doesn't really hold, unless we're saying that Gardening I is somehow more complex knowledge by virtue of me having learnt 15 other things first. The PhD analogy holds well for a single branch of the skill tree already -- AK7 is a load harder (longer) to learn than AK1.

    I see it more as the glitch brain is a fixed size, trying to squeeze more into it than it was designed for means you have to learn the new stuff slower to avoid the old stuff falling out. The Unlearn skill will allow us to choose what 'falls out' and therefore make more room for the new stuff...
    Posted 20 months ago by RealJimBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If advanced skill learning is like a PhD, then Better Learning should be like speed reading.  You never forget how to do it, and it helps you learn other skills. 

    The game is much more fun when you have a larger number of skills under your belt, and don't have to worry so much about energy expenditure.  I can't think of any skill I'd want to unlearn, other than perhaps Jellisac Hands I, since it only brings the energy required to scoop from six to five... but I'd probably regret unlearning it as soon as JH II showed up. 
    Posted 20 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The penalty system gives us flexbility to create and control the final learn times.  The other option is for the devs to pre-apply the compounding penalties so Mining IV always takes 12 days.  I'd rather be able to choose which skill gets the 537% penalty.

    What Shepherdmoon found above was un-bugged.  Penalties happen no matter what we do after the 10th skill is done and 3 penalties were applied.   Mining 3 would have been a lot more than 1 day, 2 hours, 1 minute, and 11 seconds without learning BL4-5.  If the skill table was complete, I'd be arguing for BL2-5 to reduce by its full percentage, not the difference between its total and the previous BL's total reduction.  But, it's not complete, so I pocketed the idea for now.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think I got it figured out.  It's pretty simple if I have it covered, but I'll spare the math.  Pretending that they're done with the skill table, learn the BL set as the last 5 skills unless you want to learn all skills as quick as you can without caring what they do (get BL5 ASAP in that case).

    The set will be worthwhile, eventually.  BL 1-3 will always hurt us, but they will help in the end by getting us to BL 4-5.  So if I didn't have a colossal screwup, the answer to the question that started the thread is "not really worth it today, but it will be later."  I'm in the minority camp of "want to learn all skills as quick as you can without caring what they do," so I don't regret learning the BL's.  I'd be kicking myself, otherwise.

    [EDIT:  I forgot to factor in the future Unlearning skill which lets the BL set work a lot better.]
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @RealJim
    I'd say you're correct in thinking that the Encyclopedia's screwy and shows the actual base learning time if you've learned the skill but shows how long it'll take you to learn a skill if you haven't.  That was my observation as well.  :S  I do think that the ency should just show base learning times and individuals can figure out how their BL skill level affects that.

    About the only 'workaround' for trying to reduce how much of a time penalty you're getting hit by (and even then I haven't actually sat down to hash out numbers) is to always try and choose the skill that takes the *longest* to learn once you start getting hit by the compounding penalties.  Glitch doesn't seem to care if the last skill you've learned takes 2 hours or 2 days, the next skill will be increased by the 3% increase for people with BL.  So I guess it's a matter of ignore the piddly skills you weren't really interested in but learned because they're quick, and to keep focussed on your core skills until you run out of things to learn there.

    BTW, has anyone actually sat down and tried to work out an idea of how much time BL5 might save you?  It's a lot more variable now that the penalty system's in place.  :S
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With an 8% reduction and a 5% penalty, BL5 saves 3% minus the time it took to learn.  I don't think there is a way that can work in our favor *yet* cuz the remaining skills can't accumulate enough savings to make up for how long it takes to learn BL5.  Well, now that I think about it, it can work for you if you have a horrific skill learning order.

    And then there's the unlearn skill which you can use to pretty much get rid of the penalty, but that's not in play yet.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tingly... if learned after the penalty threshold that's -8%  +5% = 3% reduction + 5% compounded to every other skill.... and that only works out on BL 5, BL 4 it's -4% + 5% + 5% compounded... the only way I see BL 5 being beneficial in the short term is when it's learned end-to-end as part of the first 15 skills.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The first +5% and the second +5% are the same +5%, that or my brain is scrambled which wouldn't be the first time.  Stoot said above that it's a flat 10 skills that we learn for free (from his 432% at 40 skills) unless his brain is scrambled, too.  mmm, scrambled braaaains.

    Oh, I guess it's about whether or not that final 5% way down the road is applied or not.  Unscrambled!  Then you have to go back to the future unlearn skill and whatever it will do to abate that.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I seriously think I'm on a different page than everyone else when it comes to BL's effects on skill learning.  :S  I'll admit, I'm not sure yet if BL5 is worthwhile, so I'll need to do some poking and calculations for it.  In the meantime, here's my current equation for calculating learning times for skills based on how many skills you've learned.

    Final Time = [Base Time * BL modifier] * [rate of increase]^[Total # skills - BL threshold]

    Rate of increase = 3% for people with BL2 or higher
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just 8 days, 18 hours to go!
    Posted 20 months ago by Another Chris Subscriber! | Permalink
  • X-posted from the FSR group discussion where the raw data was gathered.  Here are the new numbers after yesterday's skill learning tweak for the different levels of BL and when the increasing rate of learning times kicks in.

    Okay... preliminary results are in.  I need to look a little more closely at BL0, BL1, and BL5 to confirm the results, but here's how things look now.

    BL0 - threshold 20 skills, compounding rate of increase of 3% to learn additional skills
    BL1 - threshold 21 skills, "
    BL2 - threshold 24 skills, "
    BL3 - threshold 28 skills, "
    BL4 - threshold 32 skills, "
    BL5 - threshold 37 skills, "

    RM's # gave me the clue that all they did was move the threshold because her new time was the same as my old one.  LOL

    Anyhow, what do these numbers mean?

    Basically, for people with no better learning, you have no reduction in base learning rate, and you can learn 20 skills before you start getting hit by a compounding 3% increase in skill learning time for each skill you learn thereafter.  So, if you learn AK1 as your 20th skill, it'll take 10 mins, as your 21st skill, it will take 10min 18 s, and as your 22nd skill it will increase to ~10min 37s.

    For BL1, you can now learn 21 skills before you start getting hit by the 3% increase in skill learning time.  You also have a 2% reduction in base skill learning thanks to the skill itself.  So, while AK1 as skill 21 takes 9mins 48s to learn, as skill 22 it will take 10mins 6s, and as skill 23 will take 10mins 24s.

    For BL2, this threshold is increased to 24 skills and you have a learning reduction of 5% from the base time.  So while AK1 as skill 24 takes 9mins 30s to learn, as skill 25 it will take 9mins 47s, and as skill 26 will take 10mins 5s.

    BL3's threshold has been increased to 28 skills, and it carries an 8% reduction from base learning time.  So, as your 28th skill, AK1 now takes 9mins 12s, as your 29th it'll take 9mins 29s, and as your 30th it'll take 9mins 46s.

    BL4 gives you a Get Out of Jail free card for 32 skills along with its 12% reduction from base learning times.  So, as your 32nd skill, AK1 takes 8mins 48s, as your 33rd, it's 9mins 4s, and as your 34th it's 9mins 20s.

    BL5, ahh BL5.  It now gives you 37 skills before getting hit by the 3% compounding increase in learning times as well as a 20% reduction off of base learning times.  So, as your 37th skill AK1 will take 8mins to learn, while as your 38th it will take 8mins 14s, and as your 39th it will take 8mins 29s.

    Special thanks to Lellie for additional data for analysis.
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So, it's worth it, right?
    Posted 20 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Something changed since yesterday--now it's showing that Mining III will take 22 h 26 m 42 s for me to learn... yesterday it was saying 1 d 2 h 0 m 51 s... Not sure what happened, but the new number is closer to what I would have expected after learning BL5 plus one other skill (time to learn = 22 h 3 m 9 s before that).
    Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • BL5's worth will always depend, but it was always worth it in some respect.  It was easier to go along with the bad figures (including yours ;) than keep correcting everybody and I wasn't willing to spend hours doing the math to show the worth.

    BA III takes 18 days 16 hours 42 minutes and 33 seconds once you finish everything, but I bet they make the time MUCH shorter when the skill goes live.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So worth it.
    Posted 20 months ago by Piece of Serenity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • But is it *emotionally* worth it?
    Posted 20 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, when the game goes live, I intend to focus on the BL tree until I get them all and then learn the others. It may seem like a long time then, but the rewards later I believe will outweigh the patience required.
    Posted 20 months ago by Piece of Serenity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i waited until i learned most things.. and yeah.. so its probably not at all worth it, but what else am i gonna learn? Heardkeeping? No thank you.
    Posted 20 months ago by Another Chris Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Most things"?! Ha! Ain't even half of them!
    Posted 20 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • most things i can opt for now.. so just left with a few that i don't care about... but yes :P

    and now just 5 days 23 hours away!
    Posted 20 months ago by Another Chris Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps he's suggesting there's more out there that you don't know about yet...
    Posted 20 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You know when this really gets complicated? Patially learned skills and spending favor with the Giants
    Posted 20 months ago by ingrid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Am I missing something?  Other than the rush to make enough currants to buy a house, why is it a big deal if it takes a few hours more or less to learn the later skills.   Or is this just about places on the leaderboard?
    Posted 19 months ago by olygolly Subscriber! | Permalink
  • olygolly, when you get near the end "current" end of the skill tree, learning times are in days, not hours. If if Better Learning V takes over a week to learn, you want to make sure the pay off in the end is an actual lessening of time... instead of actually ADDING time (since each skill you learn INCREASES the time to learn later skills).
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • By what % do the shrine donations(assuming I donate only to the top 3 most favored giants) affect the learning times?
    Posted 19 months ago by gia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Keeping in mind, this conversation has stretched across 4 months and several mechanics changes.... to answer olygolly's questions with some real numbers:

    Accounting for 1 basic skill learned before you start Better Learning, then front loading the skill paths to the most time consuming skills....
    If I were to learn BL 1-5 as a priority, it would take me about 5 and a half days. The remaining skills would take a little over 43 days to learn. Shortest path between two points, but incredibly boring. Call it 49 days in all.

    Following a more general learning path... 2 skills before Better Learning, Better Learning 1 & 2, a handful of skills, Better Learning 3, more skills (still front loading some of the longer skills), BL 4 learned as skill 19, more skills, and BL5 learned as skill  32... 
    Well... it only adds about 3 hours to the time.

    Now here's where we look at the big question posed by this thread....
    Following the exact same path as above, except moving BL5 to the 83rd skill (leaving only BA3 which we can't actually learn but gets included in my theoretical numbers), the total time it would take to learn the skill table is a little over 68 days.

    So the answer is as it has always been.... BL5 is totally worth it depending on where in the process you learn it. It can save roughly 19 days if that's your aim.

    @gia - for more info about Emblems, see one of the many Emblems threads like this recent one,  katzlam gave a really good description here, this other thread explains what happens when reduced learning is exceeded... we've done well to keep this thread on topic for a long time.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
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