Topic

The Element of Surprise

As a new player I was so thrilled with the artsy look and feel of Glitch. The sound effects, original story, quirky quests involving talking hairballs and a friendly atmosphere all contributed to my initial Glitch Addiction. I love the peaceful/cooperative nature of the game. There are so many things being done right. But as the newness wears off I am feeling like the game (apart from the social aspects, because I love my friends here) has become a bit like a hamster wheel going something like this: Grow, mine and forage items then eat, use or donate items, repeat over and over in different areas wearing different clothes. And if you like a little competition, run a race.

One of the things I think Glitch needs is the element of surprise results. One possible way of achieving this would be repeatable goals/actions/quests that would give us a different end product based upon the ingredients we could choose to add to the mix. The skills of animal kinship, cooking, alchemy and gardening could all be combined to give a higher level player new abilities enabling them to choose the amounts, order and type of ingredients to use in a various experiments. The results of these experiments could be rare and interesting foods/animals/herbs and so on that would have different buffs, patterns, colors etc. I can imagine spending endless hours trying to get that elusive flower or butterfly pattern so that I could sell the seeds/eggs or give them to my friends who could use them as ingredients in their own experiments. I think it would be a good thing that an experiment not be impossible to repeat but also not always predictable so that we don't just end up with more rinse and repeat recipes. 

Not having any clue about how these things are programmed into a game, I'm not sure how it would work in Glitch. What are your thoughts about adding surprise and unpredictability as an element in the game?

Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I think you have unrealistic expectations.  Glitch is not going to fix your boredom...If it is a hamster wheel for you  I  feel so sorry ...You must be terribly jaded.   You need to find anther game , maybe an action shoot em up game...
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • and what about the ju ju's?  I find they add a terrific element of surprise and I am always wary when I am in their territory.
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Really? If I'm not completely satisfied I'm jaded? I just want Glitch to be all it can be which is why I'm a Beta tester. :)

    Ju jus are fun, but not something I can contribute to in any way. It's just something that happens to me. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As the game is still developing perhaps there will be more surprise to the game. I am sure that there is more to come. Having fun now with what we do have and I've still to win my first race lol.
    Posted 17 months ago by miskey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 @Riverwalker. How sad that your first response is so snippish. :-[ I like your idea for unpredictability! Fun, if its possible to do. I've heard many people say they're at a loss at the higher levels, and most people like surprises. I hope there isn't a tendency for players to drop off once all the skills are learned. Glitch is so much fun, and I like to putter around doing the same homey things but I'm looking forward to the additional skills that are coming up.
    The ju-jus I'm not so thrilled about, haha. One stole a key from me just before test end. Gotta learn how to jump over those little devils.
    Posted 17 months ago by Phoebe Springback Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Riverwalker on the idea about the recipe or patterns. That would really be fun:) I can definitely see what you mean; although I personally am overly easily amused and still not "searching" for stuff to do yet...that's just ME; I know a lot of folks who've finished things are beginning to say, now what? so you aren't alone at all. You ever play that downloadable game Chocolatier: Decadence by Design? Your idea reminds me of the experimentation to find new recipes in that game, which was a huge draw for me in there. Also, I know that the devs have said in some other forums that as the game is now, there is only truly "full" content for about levels 1 through 20; they have much plans to fill things out for higher level players. So while I definitely trust that good stuff is a-coming, your idea would be a majorly fun addition!
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, I am constantly taken aback by napabeth's trashing of other's ideas and subsequent cheerleading in which nothing about Glitch could possibly be improved and anyone who suggests improvement is told to go play some other game.  

    Given that this is a beta, in which we test how the game works and report bugs or provide suggestions based on that testing, if criticism of the game bugs you so terribly, beth, perhaps you could just stop reading it (to use your own strategy of "if you don't like it, leave").  Hoorah that the game is perfect for you.  But if other's want to suggest ideas or express their thoughts about the game, how about just letting them express themselves without needing to tell them to go play some other game?

    At any rate, Riverwalker, you do bring up some good points about the game lacking surprise and being predictable (as does 1padme in this topic).  I'm not sure how the surprise idea you've outlined would work, but I've long wanted some sort of way for player-created combos to be allowed in-game.  A downside to this is how to handle the artwork for item icons.  Another is that some people might just make things that have outrageous buffs.  But seriously, any shot in the arm for making the game less predictable would be cool.

    The thing is, as excited as I am about the new things that show up in most tests, their exhaustibility quickly shows itself.  Even the Hog Haul, one of the most exciting things I've seen since the Tower Quest, quickly revealed itself to be predictable, as long as I did x, y, z, I was fairly nearly guaranteed to win the race, unless the other person has also discovered the pattern.  I don't know if there is any way to randomize the maze itself or where the pigs/bait appear, but either would lend a very nice surprise to the race.

    As for jujus acting as a surprise element, I haven't seen them the last few times I've been out in the badlands and when I do I can a) jump over them or b) outrun them with hairball.   I think if jujus spawned somewhere other than the street start or had some other element of randomness applied to them, they could go back to being a fun challenge, though.

    There's a lot to like in Glitch, but the more I play, the more I realize that it is becoming more and more only the friends I have in-game and their wacky doings that compel me to come back.  Without them, playing would just be a grind of gather this, make that, consume some energy, repeat.  When they are not around, I am more likely to just log off than to continue gathering, creating and consuming.

    I fully realize that there is more stuff coming down the pike, but my concern at this point is just how quickly exhausted everything that has come down the pike so far becomes for me.  I'd really like to see more Tower Quest-like things (that one took me a while to finish, and was heartily entertaining), perhaps a door that kicks you back in time to be able to re-enact this backstory which is becoming overbearing in its current written form.  Or Nanookie's idea of being turned into a pig and your travails as a pig until you get back to being a Glitch.  Or something more purplish than purple, in which taking it kicks you into some odd type of gameplay where up is down or whatever - my point is to see a little more imagination and a lot less grind.... particularly since the grind at some point really leads nowhere.

    I do like that Glitch is a sandbox and not a "conquer the X to win" because players can carve out their own life paths.  But at the same time, the grind of that life becomes a chore more than it is fun, especially with all the latest tweaks coming in to 'slow the game down'.  

    So, if we are in just an alternate reality to life in which we are creating a culture... then how about adding some stuff to make that culture rather fun, wondermentful and charming rather than tweaking things that only affect the grind?  The best times I've had playing Glitch were early projects (because of the coordination necessary), EoTW parties (conga lines, jumping/divebombing, character insanity with avatars/clothing), random wackiness (pig fountains, sergeui's head and the Bug signs).  Give us a giant bee to ride, an amusement park to play in, a hole to fall in that must be navigated cleverly to find the exit, a rook's nest to investigate, a way to train pigs to form pyramids? Make that ball hittable so that we can play games or form an homage society to the ball (at the risk of pissing off the giants)?  I dunno?

    Is anything remotely like this coming down the pike, or the plans for the next few months solely focused on balancing the grind play and adding more types of stuff (potions) to grind?
    Posted 17 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, you can search for keys :)
    Mining can produce random gems.
    It needs more participatory random elements for sure, but the developers are just getting the main framework in order yet. Give it time. There is an ideas forum and it really is looked at by the devs. Look it over, add your own ideas. Glitch is a communal world building project. That's the concept. So there is a lot of stuff related more to crafting and creation than anything else. Two games that I know of do that in any detail right now and a third is working on it: Runescape, City of Heroes, and Dungeons and Dragons Online (they shut it down to fix game balance issues).
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh zeeberk, I am so sorry for yanking your chain. I am only expressing my opinion. You of course do not have to agree.  You leap to the attack mode. This makes me smile and is the reason forums were created.... rag on.. Keep those barbs a comin.   I have a very strong back. One must consider the programers here. Each bizarre suggestion could of course be instigated but at what cost? The game must suit many diverse players. The success will depend on a broad market...Zee, peace and love! chill !  don't get your blood pressure up too much. This is , afterall, only a game.
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great post (as always), zeeberk! I like your thinkin' :) For some reason, I really love the idea of being stuck turned into an animal for a while LOL. That and the idea of some kind of buff that turns everything upside down or something. Fun!
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think a good way to add a little competitiveness(and therefore surprise and randomness) is to add some competitive mini-games. Sure they already have races, but they don't really hold interest very long. Card games, or little board games would be a great way to pass the time while encouraging social interaction.
    Posted 17 months ago by Mokk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great insight Zeeberk.

    Riverwalker - thanks for bringing something to think about to the table.  I really don't think of your idea as bizarre at all, quite like it actually.
    Posted 17 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mokk - I think stuff like this may already be in the works. This game, and its world is literally being initially built in this testing.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "One must consider the programers here. Each bizarre suggestion could of course be instigated but at what cost?"

    Great, let the developers sort it out for themselves then, I don't think we need to censor anyone or put them down and tell them to go play somewhere else to "save the devs."  The devs have both a vision of the game and have very competent skills, so I'm confident that we can bombard with our criticisms, suggestions as well as kudos and mayhem or frivolity... and they can take that input and deal with it.  There is no need for someone to put another player down so that the devs can be saved.

    As for the game succeeding based on broad appeal, they could always just do whatever the hell Zynga does and make tons of money.  But it does appear that they're trying to not do what Zynga does and to create a truly fascinating world of culture building.  Kudos to them for that.

    Peace, love, chill?  Let's revisit this from your first post, "Glitch is not going to fix your boredom...If it is a hamster wheel for you  I  feel so sorry ...You must be terribly jaded."  That's not peaceful, loving or chill - it basically trashes another player.  I'm not the one leaping to attack mode, you did that.  *And* I am only expressing my opinion, too, so if the shoe I've stuffed you into it doesn't fit, then just discard it. 
    Posted 17 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @zeeberk I always enjoy your insights. Just wanted to say that as to the art work, I completely agree. We don't want a bunch of personal creations that don't compliment the look of glitch. So any "random" pattern or color etc would need to be programmed with boundaries. I'm trying to say that it would be great if the pigs or butterflies or flowers could become different colors or have spots for instance...all preset design possibilities but would require a certain amount of combining of elements to create the variance. So ultimately the Glitch artists would control the work, but getting the work to pop up for a player would take some investigation and skills. 

    Love your alternate ideas as well. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zee, I mean can't we just  all get along? I mean for you to chill post remarks made here.  Don't take me so seriously.. Every thing I say is tongue in cheek. I  am sorry you took it so literally...
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • By the by  I seldom wear shoes.....I find them to be too restrictive.
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Riverwalker or zeeberk, have you played that game I referred to (the Chocolatier one)? They had a nice middle ground I think on the player-created art thing. Basically, you used the game's ingredients to create your own chocolate, then you used a large library of artwork they provided to customize the look of your creation (choices for basic look of the sweet, many color choices, design detail choices). So while it felt uniquely "yours," it always fit in with the look of the game. I think in a way it is akin to the avatars here: Using game-provided art, we are quite creative and unique. I think Glitch could do a very nice job with player-created recipes by using a similar system. The artwork would thus be limited to Glitchy stuff but within that framework, the variations could be enormous. (My once-English-teacher head is going, like a sonnet! Preset framework but the freedom within the form to make it completely your own! It's been 15 years and still the teacher days warp my head now and then:)

    Making sense? What ya think?
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm on my way to check it out RM! :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually Glitch "streets" are done that way, @Rascalmom. I've seen a video of one of the streets being put together. They have a number of graphic elements that they assemble for each one. They also draw the possible travel paths at the same time. (Yes, everyone walks along the same precise trails - except when jumping).
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the Rook attacking was quite a bit of surprise. Hopefully we'll get more attacks to catch people off guard. (Or hopefully not! I use a lot of energy when they attacks.)
    Posted 17 months ago by ss Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, RM that's the idea. Using developer designed game elements to allow for more variety but not always getting what you think you might get, therefore giving it an elusive quality that makes you want to try, try again! ;)
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Elian, I agree, the Rook was a surprise and I had a great time with friends that day! Mostly I loved trying to figure out what was to be done. It would be great if that were a puzzle to figure out as the game progresses. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Zeeberk! I like your way of thinking and 'speaking'. Sent you a buddy request and would love it if you reciprocate. Ah, and love the sea dragon suit, hehe. :D
    Posted 17 months ago by Pinkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Riverwalker, I bet you might quite enjoy those games by the way (Chocolatier ones). The first one is more of an intro, no real creativity yet. Second one had you discovering recipes but they were all game created ones. Still was fun to hunt for. The third one is the one where you create them as I said. I've played that one over and over and over just to make up new chocolates and try out every variation :)
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've got a credit or 2 to spend. ;) I think I'll download it. Thanks!
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Fokian: Yep, I've seen that video of them doing a street. But that's the dev side. I'd love to see that kind of idea integrated into the player side, and recipes or animals do seem like a good place to integrate it!
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fokian & Rascalmom, that is an interesting video. I'd love to have the ability to design my house and yard in that way. And if there were lots and lots of elements available, I'd renew my membership at the end of the year. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just watched the video your talking about FF and RM.
    As a none geek, I'm fascinated by the magic - what a cool job, so creative, and so cool to watch.
    Posted 17 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the idea of more surprising recipes.

    One of the issues I've found with Glitch is that there is little to no reason to but finished products from players... unless you are feeling lazy. (Which is a fine reason, I suppose. I do it all the time.)

    If there was a way to make things that are more individualized to the maker.

    Obviously there are issues of graphic but maybe if there was a glass of food... sandwiches and pies and the like... where the graphic could stay the same (or with a series of simple variations).

    You could experiment with different recipes. Right now things that could change are:
    Energy +/-
    Mood +/-
    Buffs & Debuff (with variation on strength and duration)

    Once you got a recipe you liked, you can save it and name it. That way you could sell "Riverwalker's Sweet & Sour Pies" or "zeeberk's BLTs."

    On an aside: Sarcasism is tricky business on the internets. To tell someone that they "have unrealistic expectations," opinion or not, in a game and during beta where we are all spitballing ideas, is far from helpful.  "If it is a hamster wheel for you I feel so sorry ...You must be terribly jaded.  You need to find anther game, maybe an action shoot em up game..." sounds like someone didn't even read the post. If it was meant in a teasing manner, it doesn't read. It just sounds hurtful.

    Playful or not, meant in a teasing manner or not, it lacks grace.

    And that is the last time I address forum manners until the next time I do it.
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know about this.  Isn't this how the devs ended up with that pickle-giving-itself-a-colonoscopy-while-wearing-a-sombrero thing? (could not find screen shot, hoping Hburger is reading this).  Makes me nervous.
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nanookie, here it is.

    DO NOT STARE DIRECTLY INTO ITS EYES!
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL Nanookie! I doubt the devs would ever give us free reign. We would be working within proper glitchy limits. I'd be more concerned about designs not glitchy enough! 

    Thanks LB-o
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zeeberk: "Is anything remotely like this coming down the pike …?"

    Yep.
    Posted 17 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Riverwalker.. next time a free no-no powder from me... I'm sure it will bring more interesting ideas in addition to these..  :D
    (I'm not trying to get you addicted, like the people I met in the glitchy subway.. :P)
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot: Yep.

    Get off the pike, everyone! Thing coming down it!
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The 'Yep' that was heard around the world!
    Posted 17 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot = Grand Master of Glitch Tease
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Riverwalker, if you are still seeking an element of surprise, stop by my place next test. I have a Sneaky Banana that keeps poking Pinkey. Maybe it will get you too!  :P  ((hugs))
    Posted 17 months ago by Dagnabbit Rabbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ^^ LOL.. Sneaky Banana that keeps poking Pinkey.. thats sounds sooo.. lol
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot just gave us yet one more reason to give him lots of hugs next time we see him in game:) (Or...you could try beating him at a race. But then he gets all competitive and has to whoop ya back ;)

    Lord Bacon-o, on your aside, you express things so well. Bless you. Unless you're wearing the French maid getup, in which case, splank you very much *naughty look*
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +100 to RW for the original post.
    +100 to zee for the great followup
    +100 to SW for posting the link to the video that RM and FF referenced << that is so the ability I'd love to have in designing my own home space.  I get that we can't have that much freedom in the main game world without lots of restrictions, but I'd love to be able to design my own personal space...and then redesign it, then change it again for the holidays,  then redesign a new theme...
    +10 to DR for giving me a chuckle over your sneaky banana...
    Posted 17 months ago by b3achy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you Stoot for the reply "yep."

    Waiting, waiting, breathlessly waiting. Seems there are a few of us waiting. 

    Please give us more Chaos! 
    Posted 17 months ago by 1padme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aw Aero, you're such a sweet little dealer!

    And Rabbit, What an offer!! Poked by a Sneaky Banana at Dagnabbit Rabbit's. Not everyone gets to experience that!
    Posted 17 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am disappointed in this thread.  I thought it would be about the Spanish Inquisition.
    Posted 17 months ago by Lelu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fetch the comfy chair and poke Lelu with the soft cushions, stat!
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lelu, I now have "The Inquisition" from History of the World Part 1 stuck in my head.
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, my LB-o, thanks, now I do, too! LOL

    (Ooooh, another person besides me who's a stickler for putting movie (thus I assume book, etc. as well) titles in italics!)
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh my. great clip! :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Lelu Subscriber! | Permalink