Topic

Poll to possibly end the controversy about home streets.

Greetings fellow glitchen!

After numerous forum threads and conversations in Global Chat I have decided to create a poll so anyone can feel free to vote on how they feel about the current status of our home streets.

Ultimately I have complete faith that the team at Tiny Speck will make the best decision for us all regarding this issue.

Happy voting!!

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=4f730b8ae4b0d3422ac46540

xXx

Posted 9 months ago by Just Willow Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Space is so limited inside our new houses... I would relish the ability to control the space in front of my house if this is doable...Perhaps when the game is finally up and ready and we add to our houses inside we won't need to use the space in front of the house. Still I would love to be able to decorate out front and  know that is would  NOT  be ripped off by opportunists.
    Posted 9 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Agreed, napabeth!
    Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Double post, sorry!
    Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In an upcoming test release, there will be the ability to expand your yard space, as well as create multiple floors, so for sure there will be plenty of space inside your home. Devs have also mentioned new storage systems that allow for essentially "infinite" storage for items of the same type (i.e. 5000 cherries all in one stack instead of 250 per stack).
    Posted 9 months ago by TomC Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have said this before, and I will say it again....

    I put pigs in my yard to benefit others, not me. I put feeders there to feed the pigs because they would not eat from the trees without the trees being watered/pet.  The pigs were getting depressed, and one died from not eating.

    The feeders were stolen repeatedly.  It was fine, not like it was hard to make. Just a PIMA to constantly replace it because some certain few think that everything sitting around is theirs to take.  Then, my pigs were stolen.

    My trees have poisoned and dug out, too.  I try to help others, yet feel punished for trying to be nice.  I would like Glitch to have my back on this one, and allow our pigs to not be stolen (thank you for making it so others can rename them), our trees could not be killed off, and at least the feeders be lockable.

    Oh yeh, and thank you for the poll!! I have done it :D
    Posted 9 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I support the idea of having items locked down, and only for us, in the front yards.  That way, trees and animals will be there for other to enjoy.  Cheers.
    Posted 9 months ago by Peachesan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the majority has spoken. Let us await the trollollol.
    Posted 9 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To be fair, I don't think the majority of active players even read the forums.  

    To be more fair, I think the most recent blog post was a really polite way of saying "shut up and wait for what's coming"
    Posted 9 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is hard to imagine what benefit there would be for TS in telling players to "shut up" about features they would like to see. But .... pie.
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm sorry but I can't see how a player run poll will stop any controversy.

    Reasoned debate might have an affect on what TS is working on though

    We already know that this is just a trial. TS needs to have our opinions, with details of the pros and cons. Information on what we do and don't like. And what we do and don't want. Not whines and griefs
    Posted 9 months ago by IrenicRhonda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's hard to imagine?   No it isn't.   They are releasing features that they have directly said will change the way we use and think about our home streets.  So yes, shut up and let us do our work was a pretty clear subtext of that information -- the next release is intended to change this debate.   
    Posted 9 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, you really think TS has a low opinion of the players, don't you?
    Posted 9 months ago by Shallawalla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Innie you never caught me stealing your pigs.  PS, come over for bbq?
    Posted 9 months ago by ☣ elf ☣ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It would be great to get a staff reply in here to  let us know if staff have seen/are taking into account the results of this poll at all.
    Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No.  I think TS told us they were going to release items and mechanics that would change the way we use and think about our home streets.  I'm sure they find it frustrating to say "don't worry about this, the game as you know it will not exist for long," and then find they are completely ignored and many are still worrying and complaining about the game as they know it with no patience for future releases.  I don't know anyone who wouldn't find that frustrating.  

    Do I think the entire group of TS has a low opinion of the entirety of the player base? Of course not.  I said the blog was a polite way of making that assertion -- I'm the one who phrased the subtext.   

    But I very much think that if anyone wants to actually be listened to about such debates and mechanics, then they should actually pay attention to what the company says about such debates and mechanics.  To do otherwise is fruitless, rude, and lacking in insight.  
    Posted 9 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the idea of the poll was to present discrete alternatives in an unemotional way.
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The only "clear subtext" of the blog was the desire to keep people informed and excited about the game. Anything else is a figment of your imagination. The blog post indicates a partial solution, but does not address all players' concerns. This poll does not discount the current or planned mechanics of the game, it is simply a clear and concise means of communicating what some people wish. There is nothing wrong with that.

    TS has shown that they DO listen to player input, and considering that this is beta, they even ask for player input.
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Audaria!
    Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As to whether our ability to lock items on our streets will change with R2: 

    " Sturminator: nope — not part of R2, but we're still thinking about it. Some of the upcoming additions will make a difference to how people perceive and want to make use of their home streets." -- stoot  

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure reading that as "please keep debating about these mechanics we really need more of that input because we don't get it and are doing nothing about it and have nothing planned that will change anything about streets" requires shutting down your brain.  
    Posted 9 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What that says to me is "WE'RE STILL THINKING ABOUT IT."

    The only stretch would be to read that as "shut up and let us do our work."
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I strongly disagree.  It goes beyond we're thinking about it and on to "we've done some things about it, we just can't tell you yet."  Considering it reveals that our entire feelings about our streets will change once the work is completed, it seems clear that the debate is pointless until the work is completed.  

    Would you have felt better if I phrased it: "pretty please players, we know things you don't know, so you can't have this debate until you know what we know, so let us complete our current projects and then you can react to them"-- would that seem less offensive?   It has the same meaning, just lacks my winning personality and style.  

    ETA: as just the fact I am posting in this thread might indicate, far be it from me to tell others they shouldn't waste their time.  If you want to, then feel free -- but you should be aware you are wasting your time until you have more information.  
    Posted 9 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, Saucy, because I do not think of you as my interpretor for TS. I can read what they have to say and no matter how "strongly" you disagree, I think you are dead wrong on this one. And no one can say that "our entire feelings...will change" about anyone except themselves. Feelings are personal. Again, this is beta and TS not only listens to player input, but actively requests it. Period.

    Having said that, however, I can understand if YOU do not want to hear any more debate about this subject. That is certainly your perogative. You could simply stop reading the threads that pertain to this issue that you obviously consider irrelevant and boring.

    ETA: I do not consider YOU to be the authority on what is or is not a waste of time!
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Good point, Saucelah. :D

    I think everyone's points have a certain amount of rightness: those who want to express their desires for the game and those who say "wait and see". Yes, we do need to wait and see what TS gives us, then work with it for a while to see how it shakes out.

    But I don't see how anything is hurt by folks saying what they would like to see, as well.
    Posted 9 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, perhaps by posting the update info as a forum thread, and multiply responding to people's comments and questions, stoot was subtly saying "shut up and let us do our work, we already know everything we want to know."

    Perhaps when kevbob posted two days ago that "there were some good things to hear from you about home streets" he was subtly saying "shut up and let us do our work, the devs are completely unable to work on new code due to rowdy people on forums talking about home streets." 

    Or, on the other hand, perhaps by expressing opinions in a civilized way, glitchen are not implying that devs are stupid people doing nothing who have nothing planned to change any game features.
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Speaking as someone that actually fires specs into dev teams, I can speculate that the devs are thinking, okay, this stuff is hard, so let's break this stuff down into discrete value releases so we don't go completely insane.
    It's not that they (TS) aren't listening.
    It's more like they are hard at work.
    Great poll, tho!
    Posted 9 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh I don't think talking about it will hurt.  And I never claimed they "already know everything [they] want to know" -- my claim is that we don't know what they have already done, and that we have been clearly told what they have already done will affect this debate.

    But more importantly, this thread contributes nothing to the conversation while setting itself up as a "possible" authority.  None of the options in the poll will give TS any new information.  The poll itself has a huge issue with sample bias.  Not only does it draw from only the forums, a place where many incredibly active players never visit, but it only draws from a subset of that subset -- only players still willing to open threads about this debate that are active in the forums will see the poll.  

    The only opinion here that I have not seen expressed a million times before is my own, and I'm not patting myself on the back as my opinion would have made no sense until Friday.  

    But what's really amusing is that if Tiny Speck took this poll seriously at this time, it could actually hurt.  I've come to respect the way this company thinks, so I don't expect they will worry about this poll; however, given that the next update will change the issue, many of you strongly asserting a position on this poll might suddenly find you feel differently, might even feel the exact opposite way.  That's a very strong possibility given the info we currently have, so I see this poll as doing no good but having the potential (however small) to do harm.  

    I also generally find that extremely sample-biased polls such as this convince whichever group is in the majority (coincidentally, I do agree with the majority in this poll, but only as to how things currently stand, and I do not expect them to spend any time changing the initial test version without releasing the rest of the test) that they are in truly in the majority.  But given the issue, given the biases, I would expect that option to get the majority of votes -- people that feel that way would be more motivated both to use the forums and to enter a thread about this issue.  
    Posted 9 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Folks, if we were allowed to make certain items lock, that would ruin the point of the house. Cause that's what the house was meant for.
    Posted 9 months ago by AwesomeCardinal2000 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So, is it your opinion that giving players the ability to lock more items than are currently lockable would adversely affect your gameplay?
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Giving people more control on the areas marked with their names (as they are now) wouldn't ruin anything. It would give people more choices on what they wish to share and how they wish to share it.

    That said, I shall merely await the updates to see how things play out. I have faith that the devs will do amazing things.
    Posted 9 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The poll doesn't have to be limited to the forums. It's quite easy to post the link in Global and on notes around Ur.
    Posted 9 months ago by Dr.Maud, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm definitely not saying "shut up and wait" ... but at the same time, opinions which are based on where we're at now rather than where we going are not going to sway anything. I can definitely, unequivocally, for certain, for sure say that the current poll will have no influence on design decisions about public streets in the future. It's like voting on what color to paint wall … when the wall is just going to be removed anyway.
    Posted 9 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Purple!
    Posted 9 months ago by Fly Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Personally, I find it interesting to learn what in the game works for people, what doesn't, and what ideas people have for changes they'd like to see. I think it's also *potentially* useful for TS, especially if people explain in some depth the how and why of such changes.

    However, asking TS to make the specific design changes we think of is a tricky thing, and asking TS to make specific design changes based on a poll is even trickier. In addition to the problem of sample bias, which others have noted, there's the fact that it's very easy for just a few people to vote many times and thus skew the results.

    Without knowing what other changes are already in the works, it's difficult for us to know how the changes we have in mind might interact with other parts to the design. Also, without knowledge of the software internals, we don't know how difficult or how feasible those specific changes might be. And finally, it's often difficult for us to foresee how a feature we would use in one way might be used in other ways -- producing unintended consequences. So, while I think it's useful to describe problems and propose solutions, I think it's also wise to understand that TS may come up with different solutions than the specific ones we propose.

    UPDATE
    Some free advice:  Don't write a forum post, get distracted by something else, then come back and post what you wrote before checking the forum again to see if, for example, stoot barfield has already posted a response that will make your post look kinda stupid.
    Posted 9 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I didn't think what you said sounded stupid, Splendora, but I did understand it better when I realized you had written it before reading stoot's answer. 

    Thank you, Just Willow, for your imaginative and helpful-spirited attempt to gather more information about people's thoughts on the locking behavior of objects, using a poll format to avoid bickering and clarify/quantify preferences. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Splendora! It didn't read stupid to me at all —seems like reasonable things to say, regardless of when it was posted vis-a-vis my comment.

    And, re-reading my own comment, I should say: I didn't mean to be critical of proposing the poll in the first place —I recognize, as Vocable said, the helpful-spiritedness behind it. (However, I can't tell the difference between the 1st and 3rd options ;)
    Posted 9 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • boo helpfulness
    Posted 9 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Although I like the idea of a lock function I think it would be an absolute coding nightmare for the designers.
    Posted 9 months ago by Melting Sky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Melting Sky, I know nothing about coding but items placed in the test houses in decoration mode are locked and items dropped normally aren't (or at least that was what the status was last time I read things) so I assume the same could be done in the yards as well.
    Posted 9 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • diaveborn, that is only for items dropped onto certain furniture though. Items dropped on the ground in Decorate mode can still be picked up.
    Posted 9 months ago by TomC Subscriber! | Permalink
  • TomC - I think her point is that it can obviously be done, one way on another
    Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Melting Sky had the best point … it would be a coding (and UI!) nightmare ;)
    Posted 9 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You already have lock code for decorate mode, just need to apply it to the home street, yes?

    UI coding would be needed, but the general mechanics are already in place.
    Posted 9 months ago by Sturminator i` Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Sturminator - the mechanics are in place to lock some items on the home streets, such as animal sticks.  So, I'm wondering how much of a nightmare it would be to add that to other items?  Is it because those items are already existing?  Although, the machines were already existing and they can now be locked.  So, I guess I'm confused on why locking items would be a nightmare?
    Posted 9 months ago by Shallawalla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It'd be a lot of work to assign items to have the choice of being locked or not, since not everyone wants all items to be locked. If everything was one way or another, it'd be relatively less work, but because people want the option, it'll be tons of exceptions to code for various items in relation to existing mechanics, on top of variation in location instance types between home street and the inside of a house.
    Posted 9 months ago by TomC Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Surely you add a "lockable" boolean to object classes and then check for location type? Can this be so terribly, terribly hard?
    Posted 9 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • TomC, I could understand that argument, if the mechanics didn't already exist.

    Let's take the example of the animal sticks again:  I have two choices - I can

    1.  DROP the stick - allowing anyone to take it; or
    2.  PLACE the stick - locking it in place.

    So, I am still confused on why it would be a nightmare to make other items lockable.
    Posted 9 months ago by Shallawalla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Explain in a user forum why something is difficult to accomplish in a complex, proprietary software development project? Debate whether the creators of Glitch know what they are talking about when they make statements about Glitch?

    I think this thread has jumped the shark.
    Posted 9 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am not trying to be argumentative, nor am I debating the creators of Glitch about their proprietary software.  stoot himself said in this "user forum" that it would be a "coding nightmare."  I am trying to understand why, when logically it appears to me that it would not.  Why do you have a problem with questions being asked here?  I'm so sorry if I've offended your sense offorum ethics by asking a question!
    Posted 9 months ago by Shallawalla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Shallawalla, other factors would be affected and needed to be considered for every game mechanic that is added. Sure, you can add a Place verb to all items to give them the option of being locked, but adding a Place verb to every item would be a lot of work (if each item is an individual flash file), and could interfere with existing game mechanics.

    Notice the appearance for Drop and Place on the animal sticks are different, but the majority of items do not have a "Placed" version drawn, so again it won't be easy or quick to assign two different verbs for variations of how items look when some need to have distinct appearances while items without separate appearances will need both "Drop" and "Place" version to look the same.

    Next, if all items had a Place verb, you'd need to add exceptions to locations on where you can use the verb, and right now we don't even know what future changes or the final result of just how Home Streets (perhaps even additional streets assigned under your ownership) work, and how they could affect all this locking business. Some items also already have a Place verb like the machine parts, so you'd have to think of some other verb name or replace the existing Place verbs with something else.

    Tiny Speck's UI as you can see is meticulously detailed and many design elements are carefully placed and decided, so in the midst of them being super busy working on a whole plethora of features, adding even something seemingly simple when it's really not because of all the points of discussion required in the overall scheme of all mechanics in the entire game would be quite disruptive to their planned agenda.
    Posted 9 months ago by TomC Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Now, that makes sense to me TomC!  Thank  you for taking the time to write that detailed explanation.  I actually wasn't thinking of making every item lockable, only certain items, such as feeders, so in my mind it was only a matter of changing a little code, not a lot.  (It still does seem to me that it wouldn't be burdensome to make a few more items lockable, but I can now see the problem with reconfiguring every item.)
    Posted 9 months ago by Shallawalla Subscriber! | Permalink
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