Topic

Good Neighbour Feat: fun, but...

... I really kinda wish that using the same visiting stone didn't count AT ALL, rather than counting for two fewer points.  It takes far more time to walk (or even TP) to another stone than it does to use the same stone twice, and it's not worth the two extra points.

For my part I've been walking anyway, because I like walking and I'm secretly hoping there's an achievement for using a whole lot of visiting stones in the same day.  But the people who are bouncing in and out of the same stone 200 times are racking up the points much faster than anyone can walk anywhere, making me wonder why there's bonus points for movement at all.

Posted 46 days ago by Pale Queen Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I agree, and also am finding it frustrating that every street I visit seems to be unable to take packages as butlers are full, however no-one is visiting my street, from a stone or otherwise (and i've opted in...). Not sure if I'm doing something wrong?
    Posted 46 days ago by Jendaline Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree that perhaps the design of the feat would have been better to not have visiting stones send you to full butlers.
    Posted 46 days ago by FlatEarther Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Two points for using a new stone isn't really very much when compared with the cost in time or map teleports of going to a new site. (Especially for those of us with less-than-latest computers.)
    Posted 46 days ago by Teem Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Based on what I saw while I was playing, what it looks like is going on is that when the stone decides to route players to your street you get a bunch - perhaps 10 - all at once (based on my butler's observations) and the butler quickly fills up.  Then the stones 'move on' to someone else and it's quiet for about 20 minutes, then another wave visits.    
    Posted 46 days ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would love it if they could make it so the stones only send us to streets of people currently online. Then there is more chance that we might be able to actually leave them something. I've been able to leave a package a handful of times in I don't know how many streets that I have been to o.O
    Posted 46 days ago by AbleMable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Overall, I'd rate this one as fun but not quite as fun as the first. There's a certain level of annoyance introduced from the full butlers. I'm mostly sign-hopping, leaving gifts for 2 points. Seems like you hit more streets with butler space if you avoid the visiting stones.
    Posted 46 days ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We should get points for hi'ing the butler, not leaving package since so many are full.
    Posted 46 days ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was thinking the same thing, Tibbi.
    Posted 46 days ago by Myrrah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Tibbi. Either that or butlers should be able to hold more packages. (I think it's 5 now, 12 would make a big difference.)

    I love using the visiting stones! I don't think it's bad that all uses of a stone give you at least one point. I've been using each stone for 3-4 visits, then walking or TP'ing to another street.
    Posted 46 days ago by kastlin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tedious feat.
    Posted 46 days ago by Priscilla Parsley Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I keep emptying my butler's packages so people can get more points, but can't leave packages at all anymore-all full....I second/third/fourth the idea that next time, hi'ing the butler should count- this is rather cute-you can hi your own butler too....
    Posted 46 days ago by Alyx Sands Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm mostly street-hopping atm and hoping all the x2 hi's with butlers will count towards badges.

    It seems faster and more point-rewarding to street-hop or use the same stone repeatedly than to look for new visiting stones.
    Posted 46 days ago by Voluptua Sneezelips Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Update, for anyone who's interested:  I have visited 23 individual stones, at least 19 and maybe all 23 of them on the same game-day, and no badge.  That was as high a prime number as I was willing to go.  So my suspicion is that there's no purpose to walking around, and that you might as well grind the same stone over and over.  Boooooring!  (Though "nose to the grind-stone" seems like a good badge name...)
    Posted 46 days ago by Pale Queen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe I am reading the quest description incorrectly but I thought that street-hopping didn't count, just using the visiting stones? Or maybe I am not understanding what you mean by street-hopping (to me that means go to another Glitch's street via a home street sign)? I just thought I'd throw that out there to make sure your efforts weren't wasted (and to point out my silliness if I'm not right) =P
    Posted 46 days ago by TransplantedEntwife Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've also got the same streets repeatedly now from visiting stones-how would these count? This is confusing.
    Posted 46 days ago by Alyx Sands Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would have liked to have seen 10 points for using a new stone; I agree that it takes a lot of effort to get to each new stone (though I did in the beginning because I thought you could only go from one stone once). I also would like to see Butler's hold more (how about 11? or 17?).

    What I love: Hi-ing the Butlers. I mean I super love it. I've wanted to hug butlers for a long time -- I think this is better. I love the little things they say, too.

    Also, I *love* the bat hi (what are these called?). Absolutely love the hi in general, but the bat: it's killing me with cute battiness. So great. Love this addition.

    Oh oh, one more thing (and it has nothing to do with this quest)... love all of the new clothes. It's been fun seeing all of the new outfits people have been putting together. Kudos TS and kudos glitchen for your fun wardrobe creations.
    Posted 46 days ago by emdot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What???

    I thought you HAD to use a different visiting stone for each visit.

    Dang. 

    No wonder some people are in the thousands already. :-P
    Posted 46 days ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Rarely visited home streets + owners who don't check in often = full Butlers from visiting stones visitors.

    Fully half the streets I've visited so far have "full" Butlers. What was the point again of having a Butler only be able to take 5 items?
    Posted 46 days ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To clarify once and for all, here's how the points work:

    You get one point for using the visiting stone to visit someone. If this is the first time you're using the stone, you get 2 extra points for a total of 3.

    Separate from the above, you get 2 points when you leave a package with someone's butler. All of these reset at new day, meaning that you can go back to the same visiting stone you used the previous day and get the 2 point bonus again, for example.

    Analysis

    The efficiency of each strategy depends on how many non-home streets you have to go through to reach another home street, and how reliable the strategy is in finding an available butler.

    Simply using Visiting Stones in theory should get you 3 (1 for use and 2 for package), but in reality most players are not around to clear out their butler. In addition, each use requires you to pop back into the world, adding one non-home street visit. This means that using visiting stones is pretty inefficient.

    Taking advantage of the 2 point bonus on first visiting stone use, you can jump between dead end streets using teleport to get fresh visiting stones. 5 TP tokens + 3 map TP + 3 TP fixed points per day yield 33 points, with only one non-home street visit per TP. Walking between visiting stones is inefficient, as you'll usually have to traverse at least 3 non-home streets to reach the next home street.

    Finally, you can ignore visiting stones altogether, and jump between home streets giving out items to botlers to get 2 points per home street, with no non-home streets. Here you have three options:

     - People on Global are announcing their empty botlers, which you can visit. This is 100% reliable, but requires you to wait because each botler can only handle one visitor at a time
     - Visit friends who are online. If you have a large number of friends this can be fairly reliable
     - Use an external site like resources.grelca.com/serend... or glitchroutes.com/build/ to visit people. These sites have a larger range than visiting stones, so you're unlikely to get a full butler, but there are some players on the lists who don't have a butler.

    To give items as efficiently as possible, hold only a single item with a large stack size, like 250 grains. The give butler item interface is terrible if you have a large number of items, so bring only one item. And don't go back to clear out your botler, because it's a waste of time, since you get no points for it, and especially if other players also follow the same strategy :P

    Edit: As Pale Queen and others have pointed out, you can drag and drop to give to the botler, so this you can do this instead of giving away 1 grain to everybody's butlers

    Comments


    As you can see, the most efficient method to gaining points is also pretty unfriendly. You need to ignore everything else on the home street, and just keep jumping around. This is unfortunate, but it's also difficult to quantify friendliness. The best acts of kindness will probably also be the hardest to turn into a number and turned into a competition. In addition, what might be good in small numbers may not always be best if done in large numbers.

    Like a lot of previous feats, this one also favor players with fast internet connection and computer, and live close to Glitch's servers (which I believe sits on the US East coast). The best players will be the ones who can load up home streets as quickly as possible.
    Posted 46 days ago by Boom and Bust Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The give butler item interface is terrible if you have a large number of items

    Dude, don't waste your time with that terrible interface.  Just drag the item from your bag to the butler.

    Otherwise, your post was helpful, if a bit depressing (this feat really is a lot grindier and less conducive to exploration and new-friend-making than it ought to be).  I've been trying to humanize it a bit by leaving friendly messages with each item.
    Posted 46 days ago by Pale Queen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If the butler is full, I leave a nice message with him anyway.  The point is to do nice things on other people's streets, not how many feat points you do/don't get.

    The meaning of the feat is to visit people and be nice. From the feat's description: "And since the visiting stones give priority to those who have had the fewest visitors..."   If someone doesn't get many visitors, they aren't going to be used to checking for packages often.  I think this is an awesome feat. 

    You never know, there may be a butler carrying capacity upgrade card in the works! =)
    Posted 46 days ago by Jackie Jones Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH
    Posted 46 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe TS should consider having a couple of "devious" players review the feats during design.

    Not to say that following an efficient strategy is evil or wrong, but obviously it is hard to design the reward system so it actually rewards what the feat was supposed to be about. As stoot has said before, the design is often done with casual, benevolent players in mind. I don't mind that hardcore players who are willing to grind for 24 hours dominate the leaderboards, but it does seem to take some enjoyment from many players.

    ETA: Obviously, players who are willing to grind for 24 hours will always dominate the leaderboard, the trick is to find a "fair" way for them to do so :-).
    Posted 46 days ago by Vic Fontaine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Like a lot of previous feats, this one also favor players with fast internet connection and computer, and live close to Glitch's servers (which I believe sits on the US East coast). The best players will be the ones who can load up home streets as quickly as possible".

    It also favours those that have unlimited broadband - unlike me, who managed to use 1/6 of my whole month's data allowance to visit enough to make 226 points!!

    Still, I enjoyed it while I could, it was fun to see all those new streets :) Now back to staying firmly put on my home street for the next 2 1/2 weeks :)
    Posted 46 days ago by bergamot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No need for the 'wah wah wah' comment. OP was simply pointing out a flaw in the design of this feat. You're rewarding for something that the majority sure won't do because in the time it takes to walk to a new stone, you could have visited multiple streets by then. Does that mean the feat isn't worthwhile? No, I've managed 300+ pts just visiting through the same 2 rocks (started out in mossystep, ended up in darnefree air). 
    Posted 46 days ago by Kurtie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been really enjoying looking around a player's street at what they have, checking out their level and what they learned most recently, and selecting a gift that I think they will find useful.  (Lots of mining rocks? Earthshaker. Butterfly stick with no butterflies? Caterpillar.) 

    When the butlers are full, I've been giving an animal, or leaving something on their doorstep, and then leaving a message.
    Posted 46 days ago by freerangefatty Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just started a game in my group - buy a party pack, pass it to a random online person in the group with the instructions to pass this on to another group online member. Repeat until the feat is over, then we pop open the pack and have a party!
    Posted 46 days ago by Boom and Bust Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, okay... so I WAS wrong about those street-hopping visits not counting. Thanks for clarifying it. I'm far out of the running for a leaderboard spot anyways- I'm going to just enjoy the visits I make to other streets today and try to keep my butler cleared out for visiting Glitchen. 
    Posted 46 days ago by TransplantedEntwife Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wonder if it's the long legacy of grinding in games or a natural competitiveness that makes us focus on the most effective strategies, regardless of how much fun they are.

    Kudos to people like Boom and Bust who make a game out of it. ;)
    Posted 45 days ago by Janitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And don't go back to clear out your botler, because it's a waste of time, since you get no points for it, and especially if other players also follow the same strategy :P

    Economics really is the dismal science.
    Posted 45 days ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And don't go back to clear out your botler, because it's a waste of time, since you get no points for it, and especially if other players also follow the same strategy

    People have left valuable items for me. So, yes, it is worth it to clear out your butler. Especially to give up 1/1000th of an extra rock in exchange for clearing out space for 5 more gifts and friendly messages.

    Anyways, implicit in the post is that anyone's goal is to be at the top of the leaderboard. Yes, there are some for whom that is the case but I think its the minority. My goal, and I think that of many others, is to do a bit of the feat to help in the common goal of completing the feat. We all win when new regions are unlocked and new features appear in the game.
    Posted 45 days ago by capodistria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like that there are various ways to earn points in this feat.  I'm really enjoying myself, probably more than most other feats I participated in.  

    There's no flaws in this feat, imho.  I hope others that didn't enjoy this feat will have more fun in the next one :)
    Posted 45 days ago by SallySomeone Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @capodistria, Agreed!

    I'm enjoying this feat, too. And I feel no compulsion to "grind" or "win".

    Many of the visiting stone hops are sending me to smaller streets that look to be built by newer players. So I drop off a gift with the butler if there's room, an then I go and DO stuff on the street. To me, the fun of the feat isn't earning "points" so much as surprising some Glitchen (especially newer or lower level Glitchen that don't have a big in-game network) when they log back into the game and find some imagination points waiting for them with their rock.

    As capodistria pointed out, there are lots of ways to play inside the feat.
    Posted 45 days ago by Gomi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Anyways, implicit in the post is that anyone's goal is to be at the top of the leaderboard

    Given that I was trying to tease out the most efficient way to complete the feat, I thought I was rather explicit about it. Anyway, speaking of economics, one of the first principles of economics is this: People respond to incentives. And although the point about giving botlers grains and not checking back is made in jest, the fact is that if you're going to give incentives to people who flood Global with 'empty' or jumping around frantically looking for empty butlers to give grains to, then that's unfortunately what they're going to do.
    Posted 45 days ago by Boom and Bust Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry, Boom and Bust: no criticism of you or your post was intended. It's kind and generous of you to lay out all the details for everyone.

    You're correct, of course, about incentives. In fact, I see the whole game as a big exercise in incentivization and social engineering, and I wonder how much that drives the development.
    Posted 45 days ago by Gomi Subscriber! | Permalink