Topic

more "more info" system

from another thread:

"glitch should be an encyclopedia of itself"

example - every instance of the word "salt" in the game should be a link.

you click the link and the little "info card" about salt appears. that card would show how salt is made, the ingredients required to make it, and if it can be bought where to buy it + the going rate for purchase. the card would also list all the instances of salt currently at auction and a button to buy the salt that way. the card could also list the amount of favour granted by donating said item to a shrine.

this *should* address the issue of people asking how to make salt in the help channel, and make the game MUCH more intuitive for new players.

Posted 2 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I would *love* this to be implemented. Definitely +1
    Posted 2 years ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1
    Posted 2 years ago by tiff Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A game that is its own walkthrough? I'm not sure I like this. It's more convenient, but doesn't it make the game too easy? Working out how and where you get stuff is part of the fun.
    Posted 2 years ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • knowing how to do do things doesn't ruin a game, and besides, people will find out all that stuff via wikis or help chat if it isn't in-game.

    it isn't a walkthrough, unless the point of the game is to figure out stupid things like how to make salt by searching "glitch game salt" on google.

    indeed, the game is figuring out which items and production processes most benefit your character's present and projected future situation. situations which should be relatively unique.

    learning how to make salt can be frustrating or unintuitive, but that's ultimately not "gameplay".. at least not in any elevated sense.

    no, "gameplay" is looking through all the pertinent information on salt, where to buy it, how to make it and THEN making an executive descision about whether buying or making salt is the best decision for advancing you character in the direction you want it go in from the situation it is currently in.

    because if figuring out how to make salt is gameplay.. jeez what a stupid game.
    Posted 2 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Putting 'spice mill' in the spice milling skill quest description works where the skill is a prereq for every skill that uses spices in its equipment's recipes.

    The usual indirect answer for questions like how to get salt is "you need a skill," "you need equipment," or "use the equipment to make the recipe appear." Driving those home in early quests could do wonders.
    Posted 2 years ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "it isn't a walkthrough, unless the point of the game is to figure out stupid things like how to make salt by searching "glitch game salt" on google."

    But part of the game - for me at least - is indeed to figure out how to make things - it's all part of the overall challenge. Of course, people will be able to google for answers - that's no different to googling "Monkey Island" "red herring" today. Just because you *can* look things up on the Internet doesn't mean that you *will*. Having all that information built directly into the game encyclopaedia would spoil things, I think.

    Having said that, I do agree that there should be some more hints in the very early stages. Salt is a good example. It's not at all obvious that you get salt from a spice mill - it's not a spice. Once you twig that the game's definition of 'spice' is pretty loose, it all falls into place, but you need that initial hint to get you going.
    Posted 2 years ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let's just re-name all the chickens "Salt = Spice Mill + Allspice".
    Posted 2 years ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, that should be the pigs' names. The chickens should be named "Squeeze me for grain. Grain + Knife & Board = Flour."
    Posted 2 years ago by Herp Derp Subscriber! | Permalink
  • just to be clear, it is a funny joke but the chances of a player encountering a pig with the correct before needing the correct formula is quite low.

    Monkey Island is an old game, and by modern standards not even a very good one. as a puzzler it is deficient because there's no puzzle in following a walkthrough [which everyone does now that everyone is online] and it isn't accessible to casual gamers who don't find the nerd-ingrained behaviour of finding the manual, reading the manual and following the instructions in the manual particularly thrilling.

    and besides, in glitch [unlike Monkey Island] the way you make salt isn't really a secret. once you buy the spice mill, the recipe is right there plain as day.

    all this idea does is make it so new players don't have to buy every single tool and unlock every single quest to figure this stuff out.
    Posted 2 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Monkey Island is an old game"

    It was an arbitrary example. Feel free to substitute some other game. The point simply being that the "you can just google it" line of reasoning applies to pretty much anything.

    "and besides, in glitch [unlike Monkey Island] the way you make salt isn't really a secret. once you buy the spice mill, the recipe is right there plain as day."

    In lots of games, the answers to many things are available in plain view. You just need to look in the right place or talk to the right person. It's not really all that different.

    "so new players don't have to buy every single tool and unlock every single quest to figure this stuff out"

    No, I agree with that. I just don't think it warrants spoiling a whole chunk of gameplay to get that message across. Some better direction right at the very start would help enormously, I think.
    Posted 2 years ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I also don't like spoilers. Several times I've found the answer to something I was trying to work out myself by viewing the help channel. As such I mostly keep that turned off unless I'm really stuck and have to ask.
    Posted 2 years ago by bluto Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to dopiaza.

    "But part of the game - for me at least - is indeed to figure out how to make things - it's all part of the overall challenge. "

    Exactly. Of course making salt isn't The Game, come on, I said "Working out how and where you get stuff is part of the fun."

    I don't like spoilers, either. The thing about walkthroughs is you do have to google for them, if you really want to know, and information which is too literal can often take you out of the atmosphere of the game. If the game just tells you everything itself, it's less fun to play. I guess the trick is figuring out which information has to be given out early on, and which can be left for the player to discover.
    Posted 2 years ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "The point simply being that the "you can just google it" line of reasoning applies to pretty much anything."

    there are plenty of things you can't google to figure out. it doesn't apply to "pretty much anything".

    if the question is "given the current statistics and situation of my player character, what will be the most fun way for me to advance toward a specific goal, and which goal is the most fun for me to pursue in this game?" because that all should vary from player to player and character to character.

    you could probably get *advice* on that from resources found on google or from asking people, but there's no discrete, universal answer to those questions. certainly not like how to make salt or how to complete a particular puzzle in an RPG.

    you can't "just google up" the will to mine until you have enough currants to buy a house, the diplomatic skills to organize a group project, or the strategic skills to react to resource scarcity or emergent economic forces. just a few examples of the many elements of glitch gameplay that are ungoogleable.

    "If the game just tells you everything itself, it's less fun to play."

    the game can't tell you whether you enjoy mining more than cooking, or whether being in a heavily populated area or a sparsely populated one is better suited to the kind of gameplay you prefer. it can't tell you wether or not the average auction price for salt in two weeks will be higher or lower than it is today. it can't tell you how many people are going to be mining in uralia at this very moment and whether or not it is optimal to mine right now or wait until the competition has died down.

    there are a whole host of subjective issues that the game simply cannot provide *any* answers for.other than by taking your best guess and playing things through.

    and there are a whole host of situational and strategic issues that game would have great difficulty providing answers for.
    Posted 2 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • if you want puzzle elements in glitch, i think that's great. the game could use puzzle elements in places.

    but making all the fundamental building blocks of the game [items] into pseudo-puzzles? can't get behind that. the increased intuitiveness that would solve a demonstrable, present and critical problem in the game [see incessant help questions about item creation of all kinds] is simply not worth the very limited gameplay the pseudo-puzzles might provide to some. there's soooo many other kinds of gameplay already present.

    why not have *actual puzzles* inside the game? some that can be solved solo and others that require collaboration. true puzzles that cannot be solved by merely buying or borrowing tools?
    Posted 2 years ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for the post's idea. This would solve a lot of problems for some newer (and some more experienced!) players.
    Posted 2 years ago by Edgar Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is old now, but since I forgot about replying at the time: this is a good idea, IMO, and one that we always intended to implement (after a fashion, anyway). And we've recently got started — some of you will have noticed the redesigned and more-helpful "get info" windows in the game client. These can include tips, warnings and additional description, depending on who is reading them (viz., a level 10 player vs a level 1 player will see different things; those without the skill to use a given tool will be warned that the tool won't work for them yet; those with a certain buffs might see some extra descriptive bits ...)

    I get the concern expressed here and in the previous thread — http://alpha.glitch.com/forum/general/1363/ — that giving too much information will eliminate the joy of discovery and we will try to find the right balancing point.

    But the counterpoint is that giving some basic information (especially the stuff that leaves new players totally dumbfounded) allows the basic gameplay to shift from "I need salt for this … how do I get salt?!?" to making meaningful decisions about how best to achieve larger goals (either goals given by the game, like quests, or driven by the player's own ideas) given the available information.
    Posted 23 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink