Topic

I take it since you're removing posts...

...that would help players protect themselves from scammers - you're going to be taking action to prevent this behavior?

Posted 14 months ago by Babaloogow Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Babaloogow, I moved your post to Off Topic, and redacted the names you had listed there because it is not ok to call out particular players on the forums, whatever you feel they've done wrong. This is pretty clearly stated in the Community Guidelines, which you can review here.

    More importantly, the number of charges left in a particular powder are included in the title of every auction listing for all to see (if there were only one charge left, it would read "1/5"), so I don't see how this can count as "scamming". This may be an instance where the price per unit categorization could use improvement, but it is certainly not the fault of any one individual player. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pay attention before you make a purchase.  You can calculate the cost per use and if you want to save money, you can buy a smaller amount. 
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Baba, please add your thoughts and concerns to:

    www.glitch.com/forum/ideas/...

    @Blanky - it is very easy to accidentally purchase a 1/5 instead of a 5/5.  I've seen one too many sellers selling 1/5, 2/5 and 3/5 at 5/5 prices.  As for why many would consider this as a scam - I will not debate on the subject matter.  It is something too obvious to me that I just feel totally disinclined to expend energy explaining why.

    Also, unfortunately, neither the auction details page nor the "confirm purchase" page include the number of charges for powder auctions so it is difficult for players to double-check on powder purchases.

    For example, the confirm purchase page just says "Really purchase 1 Extremely Hallowed Shrine Powder for 2000 currants?", and NOT "Really purchase 1 Extremely Hallowed Shrine Powder (1/5) for 2000 currants"?
    Posted 14 months ago by Caveat Emptor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Caveat Emptor, the reason I say you shouldn't assume that people are intentionally scamming is the following: when you put your powder up for auction, the lowest price you are given as a reference point also does not reflect the charges left in that cited powder, and neither does it remind you of the number of charges your own powder has left. There may be some people who capitalize off of this, but there may also be people who are struggling with the same issues buyers themselves run into. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand; however, I have seen repeat sellers of 1/5's, and I've seen sellers who post more than one 1/5 at a time.  A lot of ill will (and community disharmony) is being generated, whether the cause is intentional or unintentional.  Even if it's just a game, and currants are not real money - scams or accidental scams engender a lot of bad emotions between players.

    If possible, please have the "number of charges" item detail included in the "confirm purchase" page.  I really do not think that particular detail should be missing in the first place, especially in the confirm purchase page of all places.

    As it is right now, it is far too easy for buyers to accidentally purchase 1/5 at 5/5 prices and for (honest) sellers to post used powders at unused prices.
    Posted 14 months ago by Caveat Emptor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree! And am looking into a solution. Thanks for your help in explaining the issue. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A further problem with this particular item, is that the icon on the auction house is the same whether it has one or five charges.  When a player has the item in their inventory, a full jar looks full, and each use actually changes the icon in inventory so that it appears that less is remaining.

    There's a point when seeing things from another perspective is good Blanky, but at this point I have to wonder why you're defending such a practice.  I do agree that the matter could be, and hopefully will be, resolved by a "per use" charge instituted that is listed under the price of the item (in a way similar to how food is listed).

    Also, after your first response, I tried to find where I violated the community guidelines.  I did not attack players, I said beware of their auctions.  I did not escalate the language to "scamming" until I thought my post was removed without cause.  If you're convinced that what they did is just fine, there names should be made public.  Which is it?

    Maybe you should re-read the community guidelines again, specifically the play fair section: "Duping or deceiving other players into doing things which benefit you at their expense is not allowed."?
    Posted 14 months ago by Babaloogow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think Blanky is saying that the seller may have made an honest mistake.

    I don't see why we can't give the seller the benefit of the doubt.
    Posted 14 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In the community guidelines, it says you are not to name players in the forums or publicly in any negative light (and it has many times been brought up before the guidelines were established). If you feel a player is doing things wrong, then you need to report them and let it be handled privately.

    From the guidelines:

    Avoid assuming bad intentions in other players

    And:

    If you see abuse in the game, you should report it. But calling out another player in the forums or public channels and organizing people to bully them is itself a kind of harassment and will be moderated as such.
    Posted 14 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also... Even if the seller was intentionally trying to trick people, it isn't as if the buyer is 100% defenseless against this. The auction listing clearly states how many charges are left, right?

    I've done stupid things in the game, like accidentally feeding 400 onions to a pig. But at the end of the day, it's not a huge deal. I chalk it up as a mistake and move on.
    Posted 14 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Blanky, thank you very much and I very much hope that at least a stopgap measure can be added soon.  From my own testing, I think it's safe to assume that many people automatically block people who sell used powders at unused prices.  So, it's not just buyers who suffer.  (Honest) sellers' reputations are being tarnished as well.  Most likely, they would not know at all that they had just (accidentally) scammed someone.

    @Baba, I understand you probably feel very frustrated.  Hopefully, something will be done about the auction system for powders (soon).  In any case, (just as a tactic to feel less upset about all this) try to remember it's just a game, currants are not real money.  (And that people who scam others for fictional money have NO LIVES AT ALL!)  Lol.  XD
    Posted 14 months ago by Caveat Emptor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As a side note: the API doesn't report that a powder has less than 5/5 - it might be handy to add that detail there, as well.
    Posted 14 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you, Blanky.
    Posted 14 months ago by Babaloogow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A solution would be to sort of the list of powders by current/charge like in auction with multiple items. This way you can't make this easy error to buy a not full-charged powder at high price.
    Posted 14 months ago by Buenayo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Per charge price listing is the way to go. I've gotten burned and it's a VERY easy mistake to make.
    Posted 13 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Another vote for the per-charge price listing. If powders with charges were handled the way tools are handled now, that would close the exploit.
    Posted 13 months ago by Kinkajou Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Personally, I don't believe anyone should be holding others at fault for failing to pay enough attention to how many charges were left in the product, when it's clearly shown.
    Posted 13 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I ended up having an in-game conversation with a seller who was intentionally choosing to sell short-charged powders, knowing people would make this mistake. At the end of our conversation, he agreed that it was a sleazy thing to do, said he'd been feeling kind of skeezy about it already, but that since no one had called him out on it, he kept doing it.

    When I challenged his ethics, he refunded my money and promised not to do it again. I choose to believe him.

    If a relatively experienced, higher-level player such as myself can make this error, imagine the effect it has on a lower-level player, for whom EHSP is a huge investment. The bad will created and the frustration and disappointment are huge. (Such a player may not even know how to figure out who sold him the short-charged bottle. No wonder the sellers aren't getting a lot of pushback.)

    *climbs onto soapbox*

    The same argument of "doing nothing wrong" could be made for those bankers whose derivitives deals were "perfectly legal" but morally highly dubious: they wound up bringing our economy to its knees. Just because you CAN do something highly profitable, doesn't mean you should. It also doesn't mean that others shouldn't hold you accountable.

    *climbs down off soapbox*
    Posted 13 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • on the flipside, I can totally see myself *choosing* to purchase a single use powder for a lesser price.  Sometimes you just want one application for a specific purpose.      The same situation exists for most items - sometimes you just want one or two, not 100, and in this case not even 5. 
    Posted 13 months ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • if EHSP (5/5) usually costs around 1900 and someone puts up EHSP (1/5) for 1900, I'm not inclined to believe they were just trying to cater to a single-use market.

    (though to walruz, true, that situation could certainly arise.  I've seen honest sellers put up EHSP (1/5) for 500 so kudos to them!)
    Posted 13 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, all of the relevant price and # of units information is available at some point during the process.  Yes, it is displayed in a confusing way. Yes, there are people taking advantage of this to make money by confusing people. Yes, that is allowed by current game dynamics.

    This is an opportunity for scammers that exists because of a confusing UI. I'd be shocked if the dev team weren't already working on a fix, and it's clearly an accident and not a dark pattern intentionally introduced by TS.
    Posted 13 months ago by Knitomaton Subscriber! | Permalink
  • twitter.com/#!/glitchlog/st...

    Yay, thank you devs!! :D :D :D

    Didn't really feel like making a thread on its own, so this one gets unceremonially revived.
    Posted 13 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you for this change -- I noticed (after I accidentally bought one) that someone had put up 4/5 after 4/5 at the full 5/5 price (not to mention the 1/5s I also noticed afterward).  That was not an accident on the seller's part; that was intentionally trying to rip off hurried and inattentive buyers, and that new 'New' or 'Used' label you've added makes things a lot better.
    Posted 13 months ago by Ninjakitten Subscriber! | Permalink