Topic

Staff Topic

New Limit on the number of Friends you can have

Hey friends! Nothing's better than having a lot of friends, right? 

Nothing, at least, except having just the right amount of friends.

Now, no-one likes having to impose limits on the things people can do, but for various technical reasons we've just rolled out a limit to the number of in-game friends you can make.

The limit right now is a generous 1,000 (which, for reference's sake, is nearly 7 times the supposed number of friends you can meaningfully have), and even if you're gregarious enough to reach that limit, you will still be able to add more if...

 * They have previously added you as a friend
 * You invite brand-new players to the game via email (you'll be made buddies when they sign up, just like always)

There are only about 30 people who've already surpassed this limit, so we're hoping that by acting now we won't be adversely affecting too many people.

So, why the limit?

Well, every friend you make requires a little bit more work to be done by our servers whenever certain things happen. Here are just 3 examples of things which become just a tiny bit heavier with each friend you add...

 * Populating activity feeds when you or your friends do, status-update, or snapshot something
 * Populating the list of your online friends when you sign into the game world (and also updating their lists of who's online)
 * Any place you have to choose from a list of existing friends - sending mail, for example

An individual friend added by a single player moves the needle on these things imperceptibly, but if thousands of players each have thousands of friends then the extra load becomes extremely noticeable (and ultimately causes extra delays and lag for every player).

In addition, scaling these kinds of connections doesn't tend to be a strictly linear thing. In our past experience, things tend to work OK right up to the point where they quite suddenly don't work at all. Friend 3,999 might not have any noticeable impact on your game playing experience, while friend 4,001 might inexplicably break your ability to even sign into the game.

So, this cap is designed to head things off at the pass - enacting a limit which most of you will never reach, whilst ensuring that we can continue to build out the game without running into bottlenecks which are no fun for players, and which distract us from building new and shiny gameplay while we fix them.

Coming Soon: Helpful-er Tools

If you're at or near the limit, in the next few days we'll be rolling out some extra features on your friends page which will make it easier to find less-active friends, and remove friends quickly from that single list view.

Posted 99 days ago by hitherto Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

Previous 1 2
  • Sounds reasonable to me:)
    Posted 99 days ago by Reader Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have 381 friends and I can't wait for the new feature so I can get rid of the non active ones. 
    Posted 99 days ago by Eye Wonder Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There should be a badge for having the optimal number of friends, which goes away if you add more than twice that amount.
    Posted 99 days ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Would it help if we all "remove friend" from our list if they are "dormant? This would be voluntary, of course.
    I'm all for less lag.
    Posted 99 days ago by Patricia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am sure a lot of my friends are not active, looking forward to be able to sort them out and remove.
    Posted 99 days ago by Miss Melody Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Other ideas (that have been suggested previously but may be more helpful here, unless of course they end up adding significant server work): being able to send mail to non-friends, friend groups/"labels" (so that if we do hit the cap it may be easier to know who to unfriend) (and of course both of these are probably not worth it if not very many people will hit the cap anyway, and possibly not worth it with the new tools coming up)
    Posted 99 days ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's a limit on friends?
    Posted 99 days ago by Mablem Tiipot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Indeed - you've brought some of this on yourself by forcing us to 'friend' someone we don't know just to send them an email.  
    Posted 99 days ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Completely agree that having to friend someone in order to mail them adds to the kruft (and what was the point of it?). I try to remember to remove the people I only added in order to communicate with.
    Posted 99 days ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you could also add the ability to scan for and remove inactive players from groups, I'd be eternally grateful!
    Posted 99 days ago by Demaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fair enough.  I'm nowhere near that cap. Agreed that only being able to mail friends adds to the friends list bloat.
    Posted 99 days ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cool! Hoping one tool is "Find inactive accounts" and the like. Woot! (I need an excuse to cut down my list anyway.)

    Edit: Just realized I'm one of the 30... disturbing.
    Posted 99 days ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand the need for scalability and server resource management. However, please do not assume that the only meaningful social connections that people can have are "strong" connections of the type described by Dunbar.  People can have many, many more "weak ties," and these also are important. This is why the new limit on friends, given the way IM and email work, worries me.

    The 30 people who've already surpassed the new limit most likely include more than a few people who are "social connectors."  Their many connections may be important.
    Posted 99 days ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I did not take that comment as being very serious, personally. 

    Anyway, I was concerned, since I never turn down friend requests, but I'm just over 600.  Works for me. 
    Posted 99 days ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I didn't either, Saucelah, but I personally think they could have left it out, what with most (? I think a lot, at least) of us having "friended" a bunch of people only in order to mail them once.  (Although I guess context for numbers is good too :) )
    Posted 99 days ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A friend limit seems reasonable to me!
    Posted 99 days ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • HAHA I defied the limit! I defied the laws of glitchics! I defied...um, I DEFIED YOU!! HAHAHHAHAA-*runs down street maniacally laughing*
    Posted 99 days ago by OMG BACON!! Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (for the record, I also think it's very reasonable :) )
    Posted 99 days ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is there a place where you can see your current total friends as a simple number?
    Posted 99 days ago by Moehr Ossum Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You can see you total friend count on your profile page.
    eta: You have 373.
    Posted 99 days ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've always wished there were a way to make a short note about each friend, so that I didn't find myself saying "who is this person? how do I know them?"
    Posted 99 days ago by Ollywog Subscriber! | Permalink
  • <trigger happy>Is there a way to delete multiple friends at once in the list view or do we have to click through to each individual profile?</trigger happy>
    Posted 99 days ago by EgIantine Subscriber! | Permalink
  •   But I'm SO friendly!!!!
    Posted 99 days ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • uh oh i have too much, i have 400! :(
    Posted 99 days ago by ShadowCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And if i get rid of some those people will hate me... lol
    Posted 99 days ago by ShadowCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would have no worries if mail and IM could be used without making someone a friend. 

    As a group admin, I want to be able to email and IM every group member without having to juggle my friends list. The new limit is not a problem for me personally because I have no desire to recruit or manage a large group. However, there are some large and growing groups in Glitch that I think add a lot to the game. For example, there are currently 1408 players on routes, and there's a good chance that many of these below to the Housing Resource Routes group, which currently has 1802 members. But maybe the admins for such groups already add and delete friends as needed for mail and IM contact. Maybe there's no problem here.  I hope that's the case.
    Posted 99 days ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • EgIantine, re "Is there a way to delete multiple friends at once in the list view or do we have to click through to each individual profile?"

    Not yet, but we'll be adding a "remove" button or link to the friends page soon!

    Splendora: anyone who has the patience to converse with a 1000+ people via IM will probably have no problems juggling their friends list :)    The better solution, to come later, is an overhaul of group messaging.

    Ollywog, re "I've always wished there were a way to make a short note about each friend, so that I didn't find myself saying "who is this person? how do I know them?"

    Me too!
    Posted 99 days ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have a lot of people randomly friend me. . .not sure why but I thought it was so that they could enter my street. True or false? It's been happening for months and is the source of most of my 'friends'.

    Changing the game structure, including previous ideas about IM and mail, would cut down random friends.
    Posted 99 days ago by Gordon Lughsen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot: Thanks for info about what's ahead. There's always something to look forward to in Glitch! BTW, I didn't mean I wanted to IM group members all at once :) -- the idea is just to able to contact any single member, should the need arise, without extra work.
    Posted 99 days ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My only complaint about the limit is that it's such a round number... so un-Glitchular!
    Posted 99 days ago by Spaghetti Thompson Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Please take away the need to friend people in order to mail them.

    I am currently at 975 friends.
    I just had two new friendings waiting for me.
    If I keep return adding people (which I find polite) I will hit 1000 very shortly.
    Sure, the new system won't stop me return adding beyond that, but if I need to add someone in order to mail them I will have to unfriend people to do so.

    This is a very bad system.
    Posted 99 days ago by xombiekitty Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am glad to be one of the 30. 
    Posted 99 days ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh. My... Myself, actually.

    I have 2259 friends just because I found it nice to add everyone I met while glitchin' (which means I haven't been adding many people at all since the arrival of personal streets).

    And now I discover - well, it was logical, now that I think of it - that I was the very cause of lag in Ur! Without even knowing!

    This can mean one thing only...

    I. AM. THE. ANTIGLITCH!!!

    Mwahahahahahahah!

    And behold, I have risen from Naraka's depths... Despair, you glitches, for my name is Ayzad and I bring forth my armies, and I am setting them free upon you, and they are the Cubies. So there will be much grinding of grinders, and the trees will wail and the pigs will speak, and even the rocks will talk with serpent tongues. You all will be my thralls, and you shall wear emblems upon you, and you will perform unholy rites creating false idols in pumpkin shapes, and no-one will be saved - for this is the Glitchmageddon!!!

    (er... so you are cutting down on my friends? No more lag? Oh.           ...may I keep the keys to Hell's Bar, however?  Pretty please? With sugar on top?       Sigh...)
    Posted 99 days ago by Ayzad Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Looking forward to removing the dead weight from previous beta's. I always felt bad about breaking the mail system.Hopefully a lot of those original invites still play,but if not.....BuhBye!
    Posted 99 days ago by Tilly TrinkleHouse Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Will players with more than 1,000 friends just lose some suddenly, or do we have a chance to remove people on our own?
    Posted 99 days ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • glum pudding: we don't have any plans to automatically remove any friends (I can't promise it'll never happen in the future, but I doubt it) — this is more of a future-proofing limit then a short term emergency (there's only few dozen people with more than 1,000 friends).
    Posted 99 days ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Good point, y'all: we'll eventually remove the requirement that you as someone as a friend before you mail them. (It'll probably be a while since building the ability to search across all players into the client is not simple. In the meantime, you can always click on their name, "visit home street" and leave a package or message with their butler.)
    Posted 99 days ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gordon, they don't need to be your friend to enter your street.
    Posted 99 days ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Phew!  Thanks.
    Posted 99 days ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm going to write an open letter to someone about this!
    Posted 99 days ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • tldr.. I'm no where near the "limit".. I have never understood why someone that has made a friend request shows up in my or their Friends list when I didn't reciprocate and have always thought that it should be mutual.. to be effective.  I am totally in favor of this change.  Plus.. yes, would like to be able to delete inactive players.
    Posted 99 days ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Little Miss Giggles: Some people might want to add that person to their street sign in order to visit them, so they can return again easily.
    Posted 99 days ago by MG Botia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yeah, it's kind of hard to remember all the players in our friends list... if at least we could have each one's characteristic smell to help... hmm... ok:)
    EDIT: i'm almost at the limit and i had very good reasons to add all the palyers in there. it will be very hard for me to delete them.
    Posted 99 days ago by mira gaia maia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wonder what the 'optimum level of friends' is, in order to have little or no lag. That would be very useful to know before I start weeding out my friends list.
    Posted 99 days ago by Moz Art Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Moz Art I would think the optimum is zero if these calculations are that expensive. However, my guess would be the first few hundred wouldn't make a difference (even if the algorithms are O(n²) or worse).
    Posted 98 days ago by Janitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Botia: Yes, but the person whose street they want to enter doesn't have to add them back for them to be able to do so, which is what it sounded like Gordon meant.
    Posted 98 days ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Uh oh, I'm one of the "about 30" people.  :)  My profile page pimps that I can click to "View All 1441" in the friends section.  I'm not offended by this limit in the slightest however.  Makes good technological sense.
    Posted 98 days ago by Nerd of Epic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I find myself adding people to my friends in order to invite them to groups, as well as in order to send them mail.
    Posted 98 days ago by Ollywog Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Several thoughts:
    1) Limiting total number of friends is completely reasonable, and every other MMO does this;
    2) I really appreciate you giving a simple-to-understand example of how each added friend adds to the workload on the servers ("the lag") - sounds like a nearly geometric progression;
    3) I haven't come anywhere near to 1,000, but am very glad you did not randomly cut the lists of those who are that gregarious; and finally

    4) I agree with Spaghetti Thompson, 1,000 is a rather "un-Glitchular" number. What's the first prime after 1,000? Maybe that should be the limit.
    Posted 98 days ago by kastlin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "It'll probably be a while since building the ability to search across all players into the client is not simple."

    Why do that?  Just check the typed name before sending the mail (before leaving the text entry page of the mailbox window, so the message doesn't get lost).  If the sender types a nonexistent name, throw an error message.  On second thought, I suppose even that requires some sort of searching, but maybe the client could consult the existing player search feature instead of doing the heavy lifting itself?
    Posted 98 days ago by Impspindle Subscriber! | Permalink
Previous 1 2