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Staff Topic

An Experiment: Posting an Internal Design Proposal

I've always been curious about posting a detailed description of some change we are merely considering in order to get advanced feedback on it (and, to ward of some of the "Why didn't you tell us!?!?!" in the case that we actually do implement it).

So, with that in mind, here's an internal design proposal document titled Food Freshness & Quality which I made over the weekend. It's unexpurgated (excepting removal of links to other documents or images that you wouldn't be able to get to) and it was written for an internal audience so some of the terminology might be weird.

To be totally clear: this is just a something we are considering. We may do it and we may not do it. Your feedback is welcome (but we still may do it even if lots of people say they hate it and we still might not do it even if lots of people say they love it). It is one of dozens of specs, some of which are for things that we are in the middle of implementing and some of which we might never do. Like I said, just an experiment!

Posted 17 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Oh I guess I'm thinking of a post someone did many moons ago about how sacks of meat will basically cover you early on, but you are probably right. I dunno though; I have a second account which I used to test ignoring the cooking skills and just doing mining/tinkering/BL...and she just eats eggs really. Easy to get, decent energy boost. Hard to say; I just meant that I think for many, it can be less needed for a long time... Just thinking aloud here; I did quite like your post :)
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Kind of getting off topic more in this thread, but since it popped up here...
    Here's the text editor I'm looking at for potential multi-threaded forum...
    CK Editor Demo

    I'm creating a separate topic. I'm putting it in the Ideas forum

    Edit and Update: As promised the topic has been created in the appropriate forum. Lots of "geek speak" there. Still, real feedback would be much appreciated. I could really use some guidance from people used to working with the Glitch API (devs of course, but they already have their hands full with the main project).
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great thread. Fun to read. I'm stealing RM's "the giants" quips pronto. Tanga made me laugh.

    But most of all -- I loved the insight into the workings of Tiny Speck. Thank you for sharing that, Stoot.

    Personally, if this was enacted I think I would stop gardening and cooking and just buy meals from the vendors. It takes so much energy as it is to grow, harvest and cook.

    I find this aspect (cooking, grocery shopping etc) cumbersome in my real life. If it got cumbersome here I'd just shell out instead of going through the hassle to make everything.
    Posted 17 months ago by emdot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm a "Hmmm..." bordering on "Ew....".
    I agree with striatic on the need to simplify. It just seems too complicated in its current incarnation. And I don't see the fun payload in return for managing the complexity.

    Imagine this question from a new player, "So, how long can I keep this stack of awesome stew?"
    The answer to that goes like this...
    - is it in your inventory when you're online?
    - is it in your inventory when you're offline?
    - is it on the floor?
    - is it in the cupboard?
    - is it in the fridge?
    - do you have a fresher stack of awesome stew (and how fresh are those)?
    - do you have X skill?
    - how many times have you made this before?
    - how moody were you when you made this?
    - do you have powerberries?

    My head hurts.
    Posted 17 months ago by ping Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1000 ping.. short and to the point..
    Posted 17 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ok i said i wouldn't be back but i figure we are divorced enough from the back and forth to expand on ping's excellent articulation of the complexity player's may have to manage because of this.

    now, in a previous thread about bat poop and gardening i went through a similar list of how gardening became more click intensive and complex.

    to this the response, and not just from staff mind you, was that the result for the average player would not be intense or complex, because they'd just plant stuff casually and run off casually and return casually and that to them all the complexity would sort of be 'under the hood' and the result ultimately more laid back.

    so i wonder if the idea here is to make inventory freshness management so complex that rather than stress themselves budgeting freshness the average players would just cook more, store more and not think about things much more than that.

    basically ratchet up the complexity so high that the response to the complexity ends up being intentionally simple.

    like, food transport and freshness and cultivation is so insanely complex these days that each individual purposefully distances themselves from the overall process because otherwise it'd just be too complicated.

    ratchet up the complexity high enough that people just give up and play simply and casually. promoting casual play through impenetrable complexity.

    "impenetrable" being vitally important because if it was at all penetrable people might attempt to penetrate the complexity and defeat the approach.

    sounds counterintuitive but there is a kind of logic to it..
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have to ask myself, given this paradigm, is this a game I want to play?  Logic taken into account - intuitive or counter - the answer for me, is no.  The whole scenario, as presented, seems gratuitously complex.  In the long run, the almighty Margin will prevail.  TS will walk away from ideas that turn off players if they want to be profitable.  I would love to see a +/- tally with even marginally accurate stats on the major points expressed repeatedly with regard to the "Food Freshness and Quality" discussion.  I would prefer to think that fellow players that agree with my sentiments are in the majority - however, I am not so naive as to assume so.  Ultimately, my decision to subscribe or not will be my only means to cast my subscription "vote".
    Posted 17 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This thread is way too long now and I hope it's not too late to pitch in. Spent a great deal of time reading the first page of comments that I decided to just browse through the second page. Anyway, I actually like the concept of food degrading over time. Adds more challenge to the game. I've not been able to read all the comments, but I'd give a +1 to the following ideas (some of which I have modified a bit):

     - not all food stuff should rot / only certain food should rot / some get better
     - the only food allowed to rot should be the ones left on the floor (in the interest of keeping it simple)
     - food in bags do not rot / for gifts, maybe giftboxes?
     - rotten foods should turn to something useful (fertilizer & recycled into basic elements sounds good)
     - higher level cooking skills influence the rate of decay (probably give a new menu item like "age" or "decay faster")

    I classify myself as a casual player and I if I will still be playing Glitch when it goes live I'd probably be signing in every other week, so coming home to see everything rotten is not really very encouraging. 

    And I also tend to leave a game when I feel they have become too complex. I'm not really a fan of complexity so I'd really like to keep things simple. Just my 2c.
    Posted 17 months ago by roderick ordonez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This must be the most discussed proposed feature so far.  This has not even been tried yet and it already has more discussion than the changes to Gardening.  I am still interested in testing this and hope it gets a try this week but, if not, I will wait and dream of rotten bananas, coolers, refrigerators, and hope that my crap cupboard doesn't begin to stink.
    Posted 17 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Brib, just FYI, stoot noted that even if this happens, it'll be quite a while away....
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I haven't read *all* of the above comments but here's my take: I think it would have to be a different rate on different foods, reflecting the real longevity of those items. For example, sauces would last longer because they're jarred. Fruits and veggies should decay normally, but cherries should be immortal. Milk, cheese, meat would decay relatively quickly, so you'd have to hunt them down for those recipes. I don't think it would be too hard except in the new areas, but I also think you should implement a seafood menu based on barnacles and salmon. You could have a new cooking skill: "Barnacle Poaching". I know you grind em for talc but... it would be cool. I dunno. Is there even anything to eat inside a barnacle? Glitchian or real-world... I know real-life ones have that feather tongue thing. Barnacles should have a random chance to tickle passersby with a feather tongue for a mood boost. Just some ideas!
    Posted 17 months ago by Buttsax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Finally read the document, it wasn't as long as I had thought ;).
    Thanks for allowing us a peek into it!

    Cooking now (for me):
    When near death I make the easiest recipe which require least /easiest ingredients (bun, burger).
    For energy food I chose the Carpaccio, I once noticed/heard it was good and kept making that. Made other stuff for the sake of making it, but the Carpaccio had lots of benefits and is quite easy to make. So yeah, quite repetitive and it would become boring. No reason to make something else.

    The possible changes makes it more fun to cook indeed, recipe's with more ingredients and which require more work would possible be fresher then the normal Carpaccio due to it needing less processing.
    Also buffs to food would be great, like with the drinks. Drinks have loads of fun buffs (even if it would only be for the description) while food appears to have none (Ofcourse I haven't made everything yet.)

    I like it that stuff would start out at a fresh level of 51-75, so the cooking skills would really add to the benefits of food to make it Maxfresh.
    Spoiling rates aren't that fast.

    Spoilrates from Maxfresh to rotten (instead of fresh to rotten):
    When in an online player’s from 99 to 0: 1d9h  (That is 33 hours!)

    When in an offline player’s inventory from 99 to 0: 4d 3h
    When on the ground: 6h36 min
    When in a storage cabinet: 4d 3h
    When in a fridge: 41d 6h

    Striatic mentioned reducing stack size, I wouldn't want that. I would come online, make/grab/buy food, and venture out in the world and wouldn't want to come back for a reload or have to take two stacks along.

    Idea: It would be fun for cooking to have something like the testtube for alchemy, mix and match ingredients which produce certain buffs or debuffs added to it.
    (Think potion making in the game "The Witcher" or casting spells in "Magicka".)

    Recycling and composting sounds great :)

    Applying this would also increase interaction between players imo, as players won't lock themselves up in their houses for hours and farm, cook, farm, cook huge stacks. (I'm guilty of that, as I kinda like it, but when I'm out in the world I enjoy myself too AND have more chance of pleasant meetings with others!) Also lots of people will not bother with cooking, so more trade results.

    Problems I see (and I try not to formulate them into solutions):
    - Too overwhelming for new players. Bit negative. Solution: Don't let them get to worry about it in their first couple of levels (say till level 20ish, it will be a new challenge for those who are longer around)(In what way food should be split between the groups: that's for another thread, IF you decide to apply it to higher levels only.)
    - Not having a portable fridge is very penalizing those that haven't got a house. (When you are "rich" it would be even easier making money, while it's hard to get by when you are still saving up for a house.)
    - When having a house: not having a portable fridge is penalizing if you wander far away for harvesting or exploring (and harvesting meanwhile.) (Possible other solution: a "teleport home" option, without having to learn the skill for multiple teleports. (Also, a "home" button on the map would be very very very nice.)
    - How rewarding is gardening vs buying ready crops?
    - Gift foods left around the world for others.

    +1 to Eureka, beta.glitch.com/forum/gener... lots of good points.
    +1 to Fadingfastx3, beta.glitch.com/forum/gener...
    And I do currently play like WindBorn: Cook in bursts.

    In response to Kross: Food and energy management is a bit interesting, but not very much. Cooking isn't very interesting - there's a few items that are the "best" dishes, so why waste lots of energy on other dishes? This proposal hopefully encourages making more different dishes.
    Cooking is valuable, but not for selling on AH. This change would put some people off cooking, and make others more interested in cooking so you get a more diverse skillset/population and more lively trade. Some sort of specialization would be nice.
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Everyone seems to be worried about the spoilage. As Stoot keeps pressing, it wont really be a big deal. The initial idea is to have a refrigerator that will keep the average food fresh for 30 days. Since then there have been the wonderful suggestions of freezers and portable coolers.
    What I see happening here is that if we speed up they cycling of food through the game, people may choose to specialize their skills a little more and build more of an economy in the auctions. Miners dont have the time to grow fresh produce, turn it into real fancy food and then pack it around for a days mining, so they buy it fresh from the auction, so that creates a higher demand for food for sale. Chefs who see the opportunity to profit on this demand will need fresh ingredients.. So a working economy sort of trickles out of this, rather than, as it is, one can spend a day harvesting, a day cooking and a day mining and a day building. If food goes bad you probably dont have that kind of time right? Well, maybe if you got a fridge you do...
    Posted 17 months ago by Cap'n Bob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i think it is a good idea to try and counter the "hoarding" that people end up doing simply because htey can and there is no reason not to.
    At the beginning everyone had just one bag and made it work for at least a while...now suddenly walls of storage and millions of bags...

    I think it would make food cycle through faster and would certainly make food a more interesting auction item..
    Posted 17 months ago by Mimi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I speak from the viewpoint of someone who will probably be primarily a weekend player, and possibly check in briefly on one or two weeknights.

    I don't really like the idea in its current form
    1) I know Stoot said not to focus on offline spoiling, but this is really the aspect I find most disturbing. 
    2) I wouldn't mind adding something like this to some foods, but the thought of adding it to all foods all the time seems to add a level of unnecessary complexity to a game played for fun and relaxation.
    3) To me, personally, this seems more daunting and tedious than potentially fun.

    If it it implemented
    3) I know it is counter to regular food, but if this is implemented, I don't think staples (allspice, milk, meat, berries, eggs, grain) should spoil.  But if they do spoil, because they do in the real world, then spices should not, because they last for years in the real world.
    4) A refrigerated bag is a must-have item for an inventory slot.  Then we can at least have a place to store staples if they do degrade, or keep some of our cooked foods.
    5) Maybe instead of applying to all foods, only apply it to certain foods?  
    6) Or (to not scare away the beginners) maybe don't have it start to affect a crop or a food until you have grown/cooked a certain number (1000 crops, 200 foods) of that item.  A sort of mastery "reward" 
    7) I agree with some of the above posters that "powerberry" is not a good name choice.
    8) Ability to create some foods that don't spoil or spoil very slowly without needing a fridge (meat jerky and smoked meat, preserves) even if they are lower in net energy value from the best fresh stuff.
    Posted 17 months ago by RainCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are some good ideas in the document.  Some thoughts (please forgive me if I'm repeating what others have said):

    If this were to be implemented, I'd prefer that anything in cold storage just not spoil at all, because (as others have said) worrying about virtual food spoilage is not fun.  When I started to play the game, I fully expected that ice on the floor would melt, vegetables would rot, and so on, but was pleasantly surprised when this didn't happen.  With the changes to the time it takes to grow produce, spoilage seems like a cruel trick.

    Ten levels of freshness seems excessive.  Five would probably be enough.

    I'd rather be able to compost anything, regardless of freshness level.  The items in the compost heap could decompose more quickly than those left on the floor, and fresher items could take longer to decompose than older ones.

    It would be fun to be able to add different buffs to foods, based on the type of berry added or what have you.  Adding some optional recipe item lines for berries would give chefs a small amount of control over them, and a greater sense that they'd actually created something.

    The "miners vs. gardeners/chefs" dichotomy is a false one.  Everyone has the option to learn every skill, and everyone can mine AND garden AND cook and so on.  There's no need to change mining (or any other activity) if the nature of food is changed.

    If we're going to have compost piles, we could also have worms, bacteria, and/or mold to hasten decomposition.  They could appear on food which had been left out too long, or be found by digging in patches and dirt piles.  It would be funny if they appeared in the dust traps in nostalgia areas, too.

    "Discombobulatory Recycling" sounds terrific, and I hope that it will appear "soon."

    The proposal might make recovering from a trip to hell more difficult, especially if you've gone there due to a lack of food in your inventory.  If you were making substandard food because your mood were low, it would take longer to recover, and you'd have to eat more.  This could encourage players to purchase food from each other, but it could also encourage them to stick to eating raw ingredients.

    Generally, I would like to see quests, puzzles, mini-games, etc. added to the game, rather than things like this plan, which seems more like busywork than fun... but I enjoyed reading and contemplating the proposal, so many thanks for that.
    Posted 17 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Glum, esp. your last paragraph ;-)
    Posted 17 months ago by ♥joby♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • glum, good points, especially about the not-real mining vs. gardening/cooking thing. I just happen to know some folks for whom the gardening and cooking really IS the game for them; they just don't enjoy the mining. And I think they ought to be able to play that way (love how we can all play differently in Glitch) if they like and don't want to learn all the skills. :)
    Posted 17 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ah- i missed the fridge part of the idea!

    i still love it. sure, we might have to go home more. OR, we have to talk to other players more, or, if you're a money lover, go to stores more.

    and i do think some are against the idea because change is hard. change is really really hard, and the very thought of having to cook (or converse with other players, or whatever it is) would be change. it's hard! i'm not criticizing or passing judgement, just putting out what i believe is a truism about life in general.

    what i like about this is that it's not more of the "grind" or "fingermashing" (is that what it's called?" that people complain about. it takes thinking- when to cook, when to eat, what to make, how to make it, where to store it. i read one comment about taking away the "whimsy" of glitch, but part of the whimsy is not having to think, and part of what i like about glitch is having to think. without thinking, it is just another grind.  for example, i learned a skill last test that told me to go build some tools. when i went to try to build some tools, it turend out i needed a different skill that i didn't have, so i had to go back and do that. i actually kind of liked that. it's not really thinking, but it's going in steps, which is more complicated, than, say mario, or just drifting around to just look at the pretty scenery, or go cook to keep up my energy, or whatever, which i also like to do.

    anyway, i still like it. and i like the idea of a fridge. i love it, actually. right up there with ezbake oven :)
    Posted 17 months ago by greenkozi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @RM: To your point, the only reason I started more advanced Mining/Tinkering skills is because I ran  through the cooking/gardening side of the skill tree. To me, mining is b-o-r-i-n-g.
    Posted 17 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Next thing, animals will start to die too?

    PLS, no fridge, no 10 different states of food, how its gonna look on bags? will it occupy 10 different slots?

    And do you think is cool walking around with rotten food? will vendors sell rotten food? actions? 500 rotten bananas for sell! come by and feel the taste ???

    And by the way were are the vendors getting there food? why they have unlimited food? this should be a cycle. Make food, sell food, eat food and buy food if you don´t produce enough.
    Posted 17 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Overall I like the idea. At first, I was concerned about the effect it would have on gardening, but it could actually be a good thing for gardeners, just like it's a good thing for cooks. Cooks are going to need to get their supplies from somewhere. Also fertilizer should help with grow times, perhaps also quantities?

    I think it'll make things more dynamic and interesting.

    My only concern is auctions, I hope food spoilage will get paused from the moment it's placed on auction till the moment it's delivered.
    Posted 17 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you really want to do this make just 2 states, good food/bad food.

    Bad food goes to fertilizer and pigs, good food goes to the market ( action and vendors ) and to eat of course.
    Posted 17 months ago by arizoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's a good core idea to me, but push it further please! I don't know why I numbered my thoughts and ideas, but I did. 

    1) There is spin problem kind of along the lines of trees dying. More transformation is good, but "spoil" is going to get a knee jerk OH NOES response. But I'm going to use spoil as a keyword for transformation by aging.

    2) I love the idea of more decision, trade offs, and transformation. Resources are really mindless now.

    3) More MOOD effects and decision making=yay! What if eating something super-aged gave you a huge energy boost, but a mood death boost? What if there were recipes of combining super turned food that sometimes gave you a wacky bonus effect or item, with a bit of unpredictability. (I'm going to eat this rotten lutefisk because sometimes doing so takes me to a quest/story space.)

    4) I like how this makes credits/subscriptions/teleportation skills more interesting. It makes teleportation skills specifically more interesting, because that aspect of gameplay is present for purchasers and non-purchasers. I don't see returning to a home base (or guild house) as a negative.

    5) It would be neat if giants liked certain things at certain freshness/spoilage ratios more and less. And offered different mood/xp/favor combinations based on the freshness equation--including negative.

    6) What if recipes for viable items called for a mixture of fresh and aged/spoiled things? Planning! Tradeoffs! Complication! Fun!

    7) This could really enhance gardening as well. WHat if vendors sold things at an "acceptable" freshness level, but gardening got you a premium of new?

    8) It would be neat if we could meditate on freshness. And radiate freshness.

    9) I think three states (old/neutral/soopafresh) might be more interesting than an extreme continuum, especially if those base states were used to mix up a lot of the other stuff.

    Strangely, I am looking forward to the reset, to have the challenges of running around minus maxed out skills and a comfy house. Stagnant.
    Posted 17 months ago by ingrid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I did not read through all this, but just long enough to see this:

    "The more I read, the more it sounds like Farmville. I hate it. Give me a way to be creative, not tied to the rate of rot."

    Which pretty well sums up how I feel about this idea. Ugh.
    Posted 17 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ingrid said, "WHat if vendors sold things at an "acceptable" freshness level, but gardening got you a premium of new?"
    If freshness is to be a thing, I really like this idea!
    Posted 17 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow this post has turned into completely madness.  I applaud Stoot and the other devs who are reading through all these responses (hopefully reading through them all at least, I've always been scared the devs only read posts by certain players so they don't have to read as much).

    Anyways, I just wanted to point out what Striatic said:
    "rotted food would be an incentive to return rather than a punishment for leaving."

    Anyone who has taken a Psych 101 class knows that positive reinforcement ALWAYS ALWAYS trumps negative punishment.  Anyways, very good point Stri.  And Stoot, while it may be unintended, a big part of the mechanics is going to be "punishment" for not logging in often enough.  I personally like to keep things on hand in case I need them in a pinch, as I'm not a big fan of gathering frequently I like to do it once or twice and stockpile, so this would hurt me a lot if I lost it all!

    Unless there are some great things you can do with the spoiled food (ex, like I said earlier, if a potionmaking skill tree were added perhaps having rotted food could be part of a potion, etc) and you could purposely degrade the food instead of upgrading with a "power berry", downgrade with a "depower berry" to be useful for another thing.

    I know you said this wasn't the main point of your idea, but it can't be bad to add even more options can it?  
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Laurali - Good idea about the "depower" berry. We can age cheese, so why not rottable food items? And there have been suggestions that the decayed and rotted food has a use if they are implemented. I still haven't found much use for stink, very stinky, and very, very stinky cheese yet :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aren't the different cheeses used for the 4 cheese platter?
    Posted 17 months ago by sakmet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @sakmet No, only regular cheese x 4 per platter
    Posted 17 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @sakmet No, but I expected them to be, too! Even reported it as a bug, because  the graphic representation sure makes it look like there's different cheeses.
    Posted 17 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe that was the origal idea behind the platter. I think the aged cheeses give more energy or something. I don't remember. I just know I haven't seen any recipes for it
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aged cheeses do give more energy. I'm pretty sure they aren't used in any recipes though.
    Posted 17 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think Stinky Cheese might be used for the Expensive Grilled Cheese, but nothing has the older ones.
    Posted 17 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmm....what if regular cheese, instead of going bad, actually slowly ages itself over time in inventory, even if you don't age it?

    And some things - like the beverages for example, could become more potent as they age for a while, before go bad.  Like wines and beers do in real life.

    Some recipes that only use aged / spoiling food  (mentioned above somewhere) could include banana bread.  Or salad dressings or salads with the aged cheeses.
    And aged cheese burgers (I used to like blue cheese on my burgers back when I could eat whatever I wanted...like blue cheese and ground beef.)

    Stale buns could be used to make croutons.  

    I need to go eat lunch now.
    Posted 17 months ago by Umbra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have just been shown this link and must confess, I haven't read all the posts as its a very long thread - but wanted to add my first thoughts on the subject. I think this could be a great new element to the game bringing a new dynamic to food, cookery and even harvesting. I don't know if someone already suggested this ( or probably many people suggested it) but it could bring with it a new set of skills - Food Preservation or Food Hygiene  - or both! Because in real life - even when you own a fridge - knowledge and skill helps you keep your food longer. If you open a pack of cooked ham and leave it in the fridge open it will not last as long as putting it in a ziplock bag in the fridge etc. I was also thinking that in the beginner levels its already quite difficult to keep up with the need for food and so this may make it even more difficult. Although, thinking about it, when I was in the lower levels, I never had food in my bag long enough for it to go off, lol and perhaps, higher levels might help newbs out with food even more if has been in their bag a while. However, if this was a concern, one option might be say introducing food freshness at about level 10. that way, new people would get used to harvesting, nibbling etc and will have got to a point where they get a bit more energy at the start of each day before they have to deal with making sure the food they have doesn't go off. All in all, I think it could be great fun and welcome it! 
    Posted 15 months ago by The Pheebs Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I totally love this idea!!!
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would hate to sign in and find all my plants and food stuffs had died or spoilt,I would absolutely hate it.
    Posted 15 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Then have it where only your items decay while you are logged in?
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think they've implemented it yet. I actually did some of my designs around this post. They are in my Google+ gallery. I'll repost the link if anyone has the least interest in seeing them (still need to tweak them some).
    Posted 15 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wasn't a tester when this thread originally popped up, so didn't see it until the bump.  I must admit that I didn't get through all 330+ responses, but here is my 2 currants - I feel that this will introduce an element of inflation into the game; food gets less valuable over time.  As it stands, cherries and allspice (two base level collectables) are selling at far above their vendor market-value.  With the intro of food degradation, it seems that collected items would be worth more than they are now (if they are fresh) and freshness scale would need to be displayed in the Auction lest newbies get fleeced.  *My* current play modality is to make a bigger bag of food and drink, then go off adventuring.  I'd have to change styles if my food went south in my bag.  

    ETA: I LOVE the idea of skills (and not just cooking!) evolving with use; recipes which increase in value depending if a Glitch has made it more times, or has higher cooking skills in general. Not only from spending time having the rock read a book, but actual game time spent using said skill.

    tl;dr - all things considered, I'm neutral.  Cons balance pros, but it would change game dynamics.
    Posted 15 months ago by Wiggles The Fluent Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm really not going for this idea. I like to build up my food/drink and go off on adventures. With a food spoil rate I would have to stop every hour to refill and revive everything I had already spent time on so I could go on said adventures. Also, like some other people have mentioned I would absolutely hate it if my garden spoiled after spending hard earned money to plant that garden.

    I can totally appreciate that you're trying to mix it up a little, but this is too much for me.
    Posted 15 months ago by Saraphim Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If I were stoot, and I happened to glance at the forums and see that this thread had come back to life, I would have a nervous effin' breakdown, and have to delay opening the game back up until I could collect myself, which could take days and days.  Let's hope stoot is made of much sterner stuff.
    Posted 15 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In general, I like the idea of adding complexities like this to the game. There are some real concerns about enjoyment.

    Perhaps there's a way to use a preservative to dramatically reduce or halt the speed of degradation (like salt or ice cubes on pork) at the cost of some permanent value of mood/energy benefit.

    i.e.
    "organic" food spoils quicker, but is better for you
    food with "preservatives" lasts longer but isn't as good
    Posted 15 months ago by Shmoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would hate it if Glitch turned into Farmville and made so I *had* to log in or all of my stuff became worthless. That's why I stopped playing Farmville. It became too much like work. :(
    Posted 15 months ago by Kaessa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While I do like the idea of adding complexity to the foods aspect of this game, I truly HATE the idea of having food spoil. I like to keep a bag of cherries on hand for projects and I like to garden in clusters, then do a lot of cooking at one time. Kross expressed things very well, so I won't go into a long detailed explanation of why I don't like the idea of spoilage. Maybe only grapes (which could be made into wine), bananas (which could be used for banana bread), and one other crop or secondary fruit (which could be used for compost) could spoil. Perhaps that would be a satisfactory compromise?

    As far as adding complexity, I see potential here. I like the possibility of food being "better" when cooked in a good mood and with more experience.
    Posted 15 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For me just reading through the explanation and the math and percentages started to turn me
    off, just too much calculating and should I combine this with that to get something else and then how long will that last...... Personally I really like the gardening and my animals and selling my produce. Will I have to worry about getting back home to check my meat collector
    cuz how long has my meat been there now?? To much like RL and house work, that is
    one reason why I enjoy playing (((playing))) and not working around the house when I'm not actually going to work, too much work and not enough play.........So for myself I would have to say this would take away alot from my enjoyment of the game. Thanks for asking, I so
    much appreciate the fact that you have asked for our input on the topic.

    Edit to add, as someone who has purchased a Molybdenum subscription IMO this would be adding a negative aspect to the game, ie; going bad, spoiling etc. maybe thats a little overstating but I really love the game and I think this would become a very demanding aspect and take away from our freedom to
    play as we choose. Some days I might feel more like mining, somedays I may want to socialize alot or just jump around and explore but I would constantly have to be going thru my bags to check my freshness
    of everything. I would much prefer something that would add fun and a challenge rather than a chore.
    Posted 15 months ago by Saba Moon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Interesting idea, but it scares me and I don't really like it! hahaha I have so much food and like having it stock piled for when I need it, even if when i need it is three weeks from now! Food spoiling would be very tedious in my opinion and I really don't like tedious, extremely detailed things.
    Posted 15 months ago by Nadia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • -20,000,000,000,000
    Absolutely *HATE* this idea.  Nothing makes a game with many "grindy" aspects even worse than adding in a factor that makes you needlessly lose effort that you have already expended.  People who can't afford to spend so much time in the game due work or school, people who have interruptions from emergencies or vacations will know that they will come back having to backtrack a lot of what they have been doing.  Some may very well decide that it's not worth it having to take so many steps back to go forward again, even if you provide ways to recover the progress you had made.

    If you are going to ruin my efforts, at least make it due to a visible enemy, like the Rook's minions coming through and wrecking stuff.  Then let me go and beat them up to get rid of some aggression.

    None of this spoilage idea sounds like it is adding any fun or even interest to the game.  Adding more realism is neither wanted nor necessary.  If it's a balance issue then just add more time or other costs at the front end.  Existing limitations on inventory and storage are also helping keep the balance.  I think there are many better ways available to add either more fun or more interesting complexity to this game.
    Posted 15 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I posted on this the first time round and I still think it's a good idea which would add depth and interest to the game, especially with the possible addition of a compost heap, where the more rotten the food was, the better - thereby giving both fresh and mouldy food a real purpose.

    However, I would hate this to turn into a game that I had to play at certain times because going out for the day meant losing all my stock...but then again, if fridges and cool bags are introduced, that should solve that problem too.
    Posted 15 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the idea of composting.  

    The grades of freshness look complicated at first but when i think about it I've enjoyed the game most  and felt most "alive" when I have little inventory to bother with.   Even when I'm almost about to croak there is always something fresh nearby to eat to stay alive.   
    Posted 15 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let me be as basic as I can here.

    I always carry spinach with me, from when I was the newest noob, because I can't jump.

    I'm horrible at it.

    I'll never play crowns, and win. Races, take a long time to win, I need a friend to let me win when it was a quest.

    So, now my spinach could rot and become useless?
    Ok, so I solve this by going ane learning levitation instead... still, feels like a blow.

    Staff, do you want casual fun, or are you willing to have mechanics that draw a player back into doing things, they do not want to have to do, just to be able to play?

    To keep it casual, reward making food by having food results make the restult start at the bonus end, then cap at normal. Have harvested food start at +++ and degrade to normal. If it never goes lower then normal, then the harvesting is a bonus, and cooking is a bonus. Add additonal levels past +++ for cooking with food that is already +++. Reward the good.

    Lets face it, it is already possible for anewbie to be out of coin catches, out of currents, and out of energy. They can be stuck pooped and at 0 energy, 0 mood until the new day. To have food they where depending on rot away, that would never look good.
    Posted 15 months ago by ICountFrom0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Don't panic! This thread is a few months old now. It's not happening, at least in the form described originally (we will probably add bonuses for fresh food cooked by expert cooks, but not do the spoiling part). Since it causes confusion and worry, I will lock the thread so it is clear that this is old.
    Posted 15 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
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