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#### Get all of the skills or wait for new skills?

I'm at the crossroads now where there are only a few skills left that I actually want, but I can't stand the idea of not being in the process of learning something and wasting all of that precious time. I have heard that there are some new skills coming up soon, but there hasn't been any real timetable on when these skills will be available. I'm afraid that if I learn a bunch of skills that I might not otherwise really need (like some of the meditation-related ones) that it will slow up my learning time for future skills when they are released. So... I should stop, right? Are there other players that actually went ahead and got every single skill even though they didn't plan on really using them?

Posted 13 months ago by Sparklebooty | Permalink

### Replies

- im right there with you and i hate it.
  dont know enough information about the new skills to make a decision. will unlearning be relatively painless to learn and use? is it worth it to go ahead with my previous skill plan despite the possibility of causing upcoming skills to individually take a week to learn as a result? i need answers :(
  Posted 13 months ago by Fur | Permalink
- I have a couple more that I want to learn, but then I'm going to stop, because as you said, I don't want to increment the learning time with skills I'm not going to use.
  Another approach would be to learn every single skill that allows you to get achievements or quests.
  Posted 13 months ago by Natalia | Permalink
- I guess they'll be implementing the Unlearning skills once other new skills will be introduced. So I'm just going to keep learning for now. I'll unlearn if needed later.
  Posted 13 months ago by Niks | Permalink
- I'm in the same boat. I'm trying to hold off for the new skills, especially given some of the hints we got about the upcoming potion skills. But, I haven't had a new quest for ages!
  Posted 13 months ago by Green Meanie | Permalink
- @Niks: but ive heard that unlearning itself will take time to learn and to unlearn skills will take a percentage of the base learning time. yay punishment on both sides.
  i really want to experience all the skills and satisfy my completionist self but is it worth it...
  Posted 13 months ago by Fur | Permalink
- I'm holding off. I don't see any skills I want for now, and I've maxed out those that I do like.
  Posted 13 months ago by Zurin | Permalink
- where did we hear there were more skills coming? was there any hint at all to what they would be? New skills or just expansions on the old lines?
  Posted 13 months ago by Nimrodblack | Permalink
- There was mention of things like potion-making or rock summoning or something in the latest Glitch blog, and then there was an interview podcast somewhere that also mentioned these things.
  Posted 13 months ago by Sparklebooty | Permalink
- When the game launched I planned to learn every skill, just like I did during beta. However, I have changed my mind. Once AK VII finishes (16 hours left), the only skills left are ones I would unlearn if forced to chose. So why learn them in the first place, I ask myself? And self has answered: well, don't then. Just enjoy what you have learned so far and wait to see what ts rolls out over the next few weeks/months. So that is what I'm going to do:)
  Posted 13 months ago by GreyGoose | Permalink
- I think part of what they're going to work on is improving the usefulness of some of the dead weight on the skill tree - things that you might not want to learn now, but will be useful once the game catches up with some of these skills.
  I also think they're going to have to address the skill learning time penalty at some point, and perhaps adjust it (or offer us more levels/better levels of Better Learning to compensate).
  I guess what I'm trying to say is, the skill tree today is balanced to reflect the number of skills and the value of those skills as they stand now. As the game changes, I expect that they're going to have to rebalance the skill tree to reflect those changes.
  Thus, I'm not overly concerned with being in a position where I'm at a disadvantage because I know too many skills. I think they're going to have to address that problem when the time comes.
  Posted 13 months ago by agent86 | Permalink
- I'm getting all the currently available skills. The new skills will probably build off the existing tree, especially the upper skill range. Not being able to determine what's going to be required in the future makes the choice easy that way.
  Posted 13 months ago by Fokian Fool | Permalink
- Thus, I'm not overly concerned with being in a position where I'm at a disadvantage because I know too many skills. I think they're going to have to address that problem when the time comes.
  Yeah, see, the learning penalty is already in place. I think that "when the time comes", the message will be "here's unlearning. Choose."
  I also think there will be a LOT of people squealing loudly when they figure out that such choices have to be made.
  Posted 13 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- I'm aware of the learning penalty :) Pleasing your existing playerbase while encouraging new players is an important part of maintaining and balancing a MMO, so I have to imagine that the developers have given it some thought.
  The skill tree now has some dead weight, and the balancing of the learning penalty will probably need adjustment. The skills you think today are useless and not worth your time? They might be the essential hot "new skill" a few weeks down the road. I also don't think that the current penalties would be balanced if there were twice the amount of skills as there are today. Thus, it's my opinion that changes are coming in both areas.
  Posted 13 months ago by agent86 | Permalink
- The learning penalty really doesn't bother me at all. I'm well into the penalty and still none of my skills have taken more than 10 days. I expect some to take longer as the penalty increases, of course, but I'm not one to get impatient or annoyed with skill times.
  That said, I wouldn't make any decisions based on what MAY happen when new content is released. It would be shortsighted of tiny speck not to use agent86's suggestion of reworking the penalty once the skill tree has grown -- it would make most new content only quickly accessible to new players, which are the one group you can be sure is not already looking for new content. And there's been some indication that they may release a Better Learning VI.
  Ultimately, I think they should just get rid of Better Learning altogether, like they did with learning skills in Eve and fitness skills in CoH. If everyone takes them, if there isn't a sane character "build" without them, why even bother putting them into the game? It's just wasted training time.
  Posted 13 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- It is certainly possible to make use of the "unlearning" skills if you try something and later decide to try a different set of skills.
  The concept of "wasted training time" only applies if you believe that there is a single optimal path to an "end". If you assume, instead, that this is a game of exploring and playfulness, then no time is "wasted", since there isn't a single way to play. "Sane character build" assumes that there is a goal and that certain skills will get your character to that goal in the least amount of time. Perhaps, instead, this is a game of "all character builds are sane". and exploring, and then discarding certain skill sets is one of the goals.
  Posted 13 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- Just out of curiosity since I have to reach the levels of all you other veterans, just how long is the average of learning the skills where you are now?
  Posted 13 months ago by Omnitricks | Permalink
- Omnitricks:
  I have 78 skills and will be starting my last big skill in a couple days. That skill (Teleport 5) is listed at 11 days for me. I have BL 5 as one of those 78.
  I do not intend to learn the 12 other skills that are currently available. Five of them are listed at 5 - 13 hours to learn.
  Posted 13 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- I can't imagine not trying to learn everything when the worst outcome is that I might need to decide between unlearning some things later or wait longer than some other people to learn whatever new skills are coming. Neither feels like a serious drawback given that having a full skill tree now gives me a wider variety of game play options.
  Posted 13 months ago by Millstone | Permalink
- It actually wouldn't surprise me if at some point they made it more difficult to be a generalist. That's one aspect of this game that doesn't make sense to me. It's a game about cooperation and community building, but I'm a one man army! I can create most any item in the game as a lone wolf.
  If you look at many other MMO's, even those that aren't nearly as community oriented, they force you to choose a specialization early and stick with it. Glitch bucks that trend (along with many others) and good for them! At the same time though, it feels contrary to their other goals (at least to me).
  Posted 13 months ago by agent86 | Permalink
- I find it very pleasant that I can be a generalist. It's nice to have other people around, but I find being forced into cooperation and social niceties to achieve things rather stressfull and off-putting. I have enough of that in real life. I don't particular like some of the achievements for that very reason.
  And, yes, I have my eyes set on all skills, too.
  Posted 13 months ago by SpringkinkZebra | Permalink
- Ah Windborn. I've missed you.
  The concept of wasted training time is not in any feasible way related to an optimal build path. Find me a single player who has not added, or plans to add, at least BL4, and I'd say you might have a point. In other words, no matter what you do or want to do in this game, there is no reason NOT to add Better Learning, and serious compelling game mechanics that penalize you for not adding it. That's what I meant by sane -- any reason to not add Better Learning is irrational. Better Learning actually limits freedom -- everyone will add it as their number of skills grow. it's just an obvious time sink that adds nothing to game play but delays when you can learn a skill that does add to game play. Eventually, if Better Learning grows, new players may even begin to resent it. Better if everyone just starts with the equivalent of BL5 and can make choices that actually reflect how they play and add to their play.
  In fact, when CoH removed fitness and when Eve removed learning skills, the reasons they cited are the exact opposite of your comment: they wanted to eliminate the feel that there were skills players must add and leave only skills that were optional depending on how the player wants to play.
  Posted 13 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- i too enjoy being a generalist and not having to rely on other people in terms of commerce, being forced to would really not enhance my glitching. what would is more fun social aspects but that's for another topic...
  so yeah i think i'll go against my think ahead nature and take the advice posted by sticking with my previous skill plan, while having faith that TS will take into consideration the players who have already acquired a large number of skills. it does make sense that they would rework penalties to balance the additional skills.
  Posted 13 months ago by Fur | Permalink
- Omnitricks: When AK 7 finishes in 10 hours, I will have learned 83 skills, including BL 1-5. Since I use tokens and the subway to travel, I decided to put off TP 2-5 (though I miss not having the summoning ability). Learning those 4 skills would take me 21 days. The remaining 6 skills each take less than 24 hours to learn.
  Posted 13 months ago by GreyGoose | Permalink
- This is finishing week for beta testers who ordered from longest to shortest and kept their clock running. Speedsters only finished 2 or 3 weeks ago.
  Posted 13 months ago by Tingly Claus | Permalink
- The thing that sticks out for me is that I learned a bunch of bog-specific skills that I don't use. Jellisac hands. Herbs. And whatever skill that is that allows me to season beans. I rarely season beans - it might just be more efficient for me to buy them at auction on the rare occasion that I want one. Suppose that by unlearning these skills I might bring the learn time for something I really want - General Contracting maybe, or super-piety or whatever from two weeks down to one. Maybe I don't really need AK7 or Tinkering whatever, and bypassing these makes it feasible to learn rock summoning or invisibility or whatever in under a month. Just sayin'.
  What doesn't work for me is to just assume that if at some point I, or a bunch of I's, complain about learning penalties, that TS will just change what they've got to make me happy. That's wishful thinking, harsh as the term may sound.
  Newbies will actually have an advantage, since they start with a shallow skill tree and can easily go deep down one or two paths.
  Posted 13 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- But then we'll have pretty much everything learned for a massive advantage over newbies. I can handle waiting 3 months for a new skill if need be.
  Posted 13 months ago by Tingly Claus | Permalink
- Alright thanks a lot. Right now all I am doing is focusing on AK, Meditation and BL but it seems that everyone says BL is not that useful. At least I know the Teleportation can possibly take a whopping 21 days so I am soooooo not going to consider that skill.
  Posted 13 months ago by Omnitricks | Permalink
- Almost everyone actually has BL, so I don't know where you got the idea that it isn't that useful.
  Posted 13 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- I like being a generalist. I like mining for metal, smelting it making copper & tools and using the tools to make food.
  I still buy from auction because I don't always have the space to store all the resources I need.
  Posted 13 months ago by Treesa | Permalink
- If you wait, you may find that the skills that you did not learn are needed in order to learn the new ones. You can stop learning any time and start a new skill. I recommend you continue learning. The one drawback is the increase in learning times. I have always found this a little upsetting. I feel as though I am being punished for learning. Who ever heard of such a thing? Learning should always be beneficial, not a punishment.
  Posted 13 months ago by Brib Annie | Permalink
- Omnitricks: Teleportation 2-5 will take me 21 days only because I chose to leave that branch for last.
  Better Learning is extremely useful, but it works behind the scenes, affecting the time it takes to learn a skill. With BL1, you can learn 21 skills before the 3% compounding learning penalty kicks in. With BL2, you can learn 24 skills; with BL3, it's 28 skills; BL4 32 and with BL5 you can learn 37 skills.
  Posted 13 months ago by GreyGoose | Permalink
- Omnitricks: Better Learning is the track I MOST recommend to anyone starting out - it keeps your skill learning supershort for a long time.
  I've only got 60-something skills but I've done the longest-duration trees (BL, mining, teleport), so only one of my unlearned skills is listed at over two days, and about half of them are only a matter of hours. (But I'm over the BL limit so for any new skill I add, all of those go up by the 3%, and if I do start doing more it will add up fast! By the time I got to that over-two-day skill, it would probably be over four.)
  Posted 13 months ago by oscarette | Permalink
- Omnitricks, go use the skillifier:
  http://agent86.nfshost.com/glitch/
  You can learn a lot about the penalty system and skill ordering from it.
  Posted 13 months ago by agent86 | Permalink
- really though all you're gaining is 3-8 days off a skill that you might not like or even need. and instead of having all the skills now(even if some are pointless) you've shaved a few hours off another skill you might want(or not) instead of just using the time you aren't learning anything to actually learn something else.
  Basically, i think its pointless to not learn everything.
  Sidebar: according to skillifier i still have 40 days before i've learned everything >.<
  Posted 13 months ago by Crocen | Permalink
- Alright thanks for clearing that up. Looks like its 48 days for me to learn all the skills. A little scary that the penalties can go up to 400%.
  Posted 13 months ago by Omnitricks | Permalink
- I look at it as a long game- I'm not planning to know everything tomorrow (haven't once spent favor points on sped-up learning since the reset), and I don't see longer times as much of an impediment to learning everything. The way I look at it, I have a year sub that I will have plenty of time to learn everything in, and don't see why I shouldn't learn Bureaucratic Arts, even though there doesn't seem to be much point. Or Engineering. Or Fuelmaking. Or friggin' Jellisac Hands. I've got loads of time, don't have to be in-game to learn 'em, and imagine that there will be new reasons for having the skills that are there at some point, as well as new skills that will pop up "soon". No reason to rush to the end, get concerned about penalties, or avoid any of 'em because they're currently weak or rather dead-end. I just prioritize. I'm not a tremendously efficiency-driven player, so I don't mind waiting, either.
  Posted 13 months ago by Djabriil | Permalink
- I now have all the skillz
  :)
  Posted 13 months ago by shhexy corin | Permalink
- agent86's tools - explaining game mechanics in simple terms since about a month ago :)
  YOUR TRUSTED FRIEND IN MATHY GOODNESS. (tm)
  The reason I encourage people to go look at it is just so that if they have any interest in learning the long learning time skills (ie, the top of Mining, Teleportation, Better Learning, Animal Kinship), you probably want to prioritize them, lest they become insanely difficult to get.
  Learning Gasmogrification at the end and it taking 2 hours isn't bad, but some of those would take weeks if you left them for last...
  It really feels like there should be some sort of sliding penalty scale to keep some of these skills from becoming outlandishly hard to learn if you leave them for late in the ordering.
  Posted 13 months ago by agent86 | Permalink
- UMMMM...does anyone else see "Distilling I" in the Skillifier? Can't find any other info for it except in there. CURIOUS.
  Posted 13 months ago by Arya Underfoot | Permalink
- I do see distilling I. I wonder if it is reading that from the glitch servers?
  *rubs hands together*
  I really could use a still in my back yard.
  Posted 13 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- Agent 86- Linkydoo?
  Posted 13 months ago by Sperkle | Permalink
- It's loading directly from the Glitch API presumably, so I think it's for real! :D
  Potatoes, grain, corn, etc---->hooch and beer?
  Posted 13 months ago by Arya Underfoot | Permalink
- I see Distilling I as well.
  Looks like it'd take me about a month longer. Ah well, that's what I get for doing what I like most first. I don't really mind.
  I left a lot of the shorter skills I knew I'd love until after I'd gotten the longer ones I wanted most, so it could be much worse than it is. I'm only getting all the skills because I just wanna anyway, and am down to the ones that are not so important to me. :)
  There will be lots of donations in my future. :D
  Posted 13 months ago by Little Miss Giggles | Permalink
- Hmm. I tried lining Distilling up in the Skillifier, but the skill tree it was in did not pop up with it so either I already have its prereqs or they haven't attached it to a skill tree as of yet.
  — Mal'akh, Primate of Lem, Primus Inter Pares of the Orthodox Church of the Giants of Ur, Hubby of Aranna, Shriner of Mullangi Meda
  Posted 13 months ago by Mal'akh | Permalink
- I just noticed Tincturing on Skillifier as well. (The link is to the Wikipedia definition for "tincture", and it looks like it's related to Distilling.)
  Posted 13 months ago by blech | Permalink
- OMG I cannot wait for new skills! (!!) I wonder if Tincturing will connect up with herbs produced via Herbalism?
  Posted 13 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale | Permalink
- Tincturing... Tincture of Purple!!!
  Posted 13 months ago by Mal'akh | Permalink