Topic

SUGGESTED RULES FOR PLANTING

Edit: so the tree huggers everywhere took the title as an offense. I don't want to feel like I need to walk on eggshells here, but just so everyone knows: it was not the intention of the thread. I was merely suggesting a way for the tree lovers and the patch lovers to be able to coexist.

1) Do not plant bean trees. Ever.
2) Never plant near the projects. (Right now this means not planting in jethimadh or alakol)
3) Do not plant in every single patch of an area. Leave some empty patches between trees

Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I have no problems with tree lovers and i have no problem with earth lovers,lets face it these projects have to be done.I do believe that whatever projects are being worked on ,the surrounding areas should be left empty for earth/loam,but any places that are further out should still have the trees left intact,lets face it we need these trees,to....1.Make food and sustain energy on the projects...2.To make food for the projects.The only thing i didn't like about this thread was 'don't plant bean trees ever', as all trees have their various uses.But i do agree that trees need to be spread out more evenly.And yes there are newbies in the game,but don't forget a lot of them have no idea about the projects,they visit new areas and ( editing ),they need to their quests,hoeing and planting saplings.
    So instead of rules,let's just gently guide and discuss,where best to plant trees and where to leave empty,lets not be harsh with notes,just explain why the plot is empty.The projects in these places are only temporary and will soon move on to another area,then you can fill up with trees again to your hearts delight..:)
    Posted 19 months ago by Joos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are no rules for the game, so you can't impose them, or even get general consensus because there is no way to enforce them.
    And really, there shouldn't be, that's the whole fun part of the game.

    I do not enjoy the role auctions are playing in projects right now - it makes it impossible for anyone not sitting on top of the project to participate.
    At the end of the day - I think it is awesome that there are some items that are more scarce and take more time to collect. Who cares if completing the project takes another day? There is all the time in the world. It gives other people a chance to collect and then actually get there before it is all filled up.

    the reason a lot of newbies plant tress in empty patches is because there is a quest to pet saplings...and theonly way to do that is to plant new trees.

    Chill out, its supposed to be fun. Have an adventure gathering stuff - I tried to wait for the next phase of a project to open and I got super bored waiting there - go have fun.
    Posted 19 months ago by Mimi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm a new player - I just started a few days ago. I don't know anything about projects, but I'll be checking them out when I have the chance. 
    One of my early quests seemed like it would be easy - hoe 5 patches. Well, in 3 days I only found 3 patches, and I went to a LOT of places on the map. 
    This thread has explained why that early task is so difficult. I wonder if I'll be able to complete it next time the game is open?
    Posted 19 months ago by Zany Serendipity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ devs: zeeberk's idea would be amazing:    

    "Alternately, just stick a huge massive pit in the middle of a few streets where people can just strip mine the hell out of earth.  Or build a huge earth pit street.  That might actually be amusing, because maybe if you dig that street too deeply, no one would be able to jump out of it, so you'd have to be clever about you dug it down. Yea, I like that idea even better than gardens coughing up earth.  Or maybe you could dig way way way down to reveal a hole that could transport you to another land. And if the street gets emptied of dirt, maybe it triggers a landslide that fills it back up again. " 

    zeeberk, I think this idea is amazing, and would be such a fun mini-project. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Piece of Serenity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • there is absolutely no chance involved and the procedure goes entirely according to plan.

    There is the short-lived rush of unlocking and exploring a new street, where there's chance involved in what is revealed, and then it starts all over again. Really, vidcap yourself for just a few minutes when you're in full-on foreman mode and watch it back.

    Perhaps it's the fate of Glitch for players to choose whether they're going to be Fraggles or Doozers, but I hope not.
    Posted 19 months ago by Holgate Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (cross posted from another thread)Definitely with you Holgate: I don't want to play in a world where you're either a self-appointed queen bee or just a worker drone.

    There are many players, many ways to play and there are many reasons to play in those ways. Laying down rules, etiquette, ways of playing so that they benefit *you* is hugely discouraging and, in my mind, against the spirit of the game. 

    My problems with Glitch have nearly always been related to the way some players try to force others to act. In fact, I didn't join a playtest for three or four months because I was so fed up with being told what to do, both in-game and in forum discussions. Of course, if you want to create your own system of rewards to try and encourage certain behaviour, then feel free. But making rules is not the same as having authority.
    Posted 19 months ago by wurzel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "There is the short-lived rush of unlocking and exploring a new street, where there's chance involved in what is revealed, and then it starts all over again. Really, vidcap yourself for just a few minutes when you're in full-on foreman mode and watch it back."

    i am like, an actual foreman on an actual irl building project to double the size of our local community garden and quadruple the size of its food bank garden.

    enthusiasm and momentum are really important while working collaboratively. speed is too, because the longer something goes the less opportunity there is for effective collaboration as the work time is spread out more and there is less overlap in which people can work together.

    there are real, practical benefits to doing things in this way. plus it is fun.

    if you think it is all about "the rush", well, if "the rush" is used to build something productive and work together with other people then i think the comparison with gambling is really insulting.

    basically all that's being asked for here is compromise, which is what is so tragic in this discussion. solo players don't plant around the projects, and project players don't carpet bomb groddle meadow with poison.

    it is sad, coz a compromise would be great. instead i'm thinking that in the response to "i'm going to plant wherever i want" attitude, the corresponding attitude is "i'm going to poison wherever i want", which isn't really good for anyone.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • and wurzel, it's a shared game world.

    when you act, you have the potential to seriously eff up whatever other people are trying to do.

    if you're not even willing to consider other people's suggestions because you don't like "being told what to do", bear in mind that by your actions you are not merely suggesting that other people do other things but that you are indeed forcing them to do other things.

    by your very actions you are "telling people what to do". if you plant in a project zone instead of elsewhere, you are telling/forcing people to poison your tree in order to get dirt.

    there are different ways to communicate. through words and also through actions. you may proclaim to hate telling people what do do, and yet we all do it constantly through our actions within the shared game world.

    at least with talking there is an opportunity for compromise.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you don't want bean trees near your projects, I suggest you wrangle a crack squad-of tree-poisoners.  Your brand of public whining may lead to an antagonistic bean-tree-planting onslaught!  DOWN WITH EMPTY PATCHES!!!
    Posted 19 months ago by mirth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • + 1@ Striatic,in an ideal Glitchy world,compromise would be great! I have even compromised my garden,2 bean trees for making high energy foods and 3 empty patches for earth/loam.I know i don't get oodles from my little effort,but combined with everyone else's it adds up.
    Posted 19 months ago by Joos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is it really that hard to walk a few streets extra to get to empty patches? No one's telling you HAVE to get earth from patches RIGHT next to the project.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In a game where there are no rules you will never ever get everyone else to play as "you" think fit. You can analyse it till the cows come home but it an't gona happen. I would never ever play for pure spite. But i've said it before I'm playing my way by my rules until a dev tells me other wise ;)

    There is also a little part of me that wants to go and break someone's rule even if I actually think its a valid one. Just because I could if I wanted to ;p
    Posted 19 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can we just have a builders yard please?!...lol
    Posted 19 months ago by Joos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cupcake, i you want to look at trees, why not avoid the areas being worked on and look at your trees there?

    If we keep the patches near the projects clear, everyone knows where they are. Consider them a shared resource.  Get your patch related quests done there. Tend them, plant your beans, pet your seedlings.  Just don't expect them to live very long. How about that for a compromise?
    Posted 19 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All this talk about compromise - we're in BETA folks...we might be very surprised with the final Glitch - these issues that seem so burning now maybe near moot later.

    Just sayin'...
    Posted 19 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great points, striatic! It's true that changing the pace of collaborative efforts like brick-making will kill the collaboration altogther--there will be no motivation for people to stick around and work together through that sort of thing if it takes longer than they are able to accomplish in the time they can sit at their computers in one stretch. This would be sad, because I think that the collaborative effort is the most exciting part of the projects. I do think, however, that the amounts of other items needed should be increased: the sort of things that fill up within seconds of the project opening, like wood and peat, need to be increased so more people can contribute.

    Cupcake, I have traveled to completely different regions of the world to get things like barnacles for a project, only to have the requirement for those things filled up by the time I get back. Sometimes the communication is great on the New Streets Group channel, and sometimes not so great... it's irritating when you specifically tell people that you are traveling a long way to get something, and to please keep you updated on the status of the project, only to be met with complete silence and a work phase that is in progress when you finally make it back. (Two teleport points would help improve this situation dramatically). That's why no one wants to travel too far from the project. Also, there are usually more patches near the project than far away (due to poisoning)--patches don't last long at all, and really are extremely hard to find.
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • When i walk past a project i'll check to see if i can chip in anything but i've learned to not even worry with them to much. Not sure what this "team work" is that get's mentioned. It usually is just a bunch of worker drones huddled under the vendor doing their thing with little to no talking.
    I've taken a new money making approach. When i'm walking the world i gather what i can and save it up (wood -without poisoning, i don't roll like that-, barnacles, jelisiac, etc). Once i get a good supply i will auction it. The chances of me getting to a site that needs these materials are slim to none. My hope is that when i auction them someone doens't just buy them and reauction at an even higher rate.
    So... why does this game need these projects anyway? It seems that for many people this is the only purpose of the entire game... am i missing something (besides a shiny trophy)?
    Posted 19 months ago by Niknik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Is it really that hard to walk a few streets extra to get to empty patches?"

    yes.

    is it really so hard to plant your tree a few streets away from the project?

    you only have to plant that tree once and can harvest from it whenever, whereas project builders need to shuttle back and fort between empty patches and track dirt re-spawn times in order to dig em out before they get filled.

    re. "a crack squad-of tree-poisoners", those already exist. remember though that poison is expensive and kills your mood and has a very long cool down timer.

    poison *should be* very expensive to prevent abuse .. but you also shouldn't have to use it unnecessarily and constantly.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So... why does this game need these projects anyway? It seems that for many people this is the only purpose of the entire game... am i missing something (besides a shiny trophy)?

    Project provide an organized goal. There are fewer quests as people get to higher levels, so projects provide some structure for activities.
    Posted 19 months ago by Merek Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "So... why does this game need these projects anyway? It seems that for many people this is the only purpose of the entire game... am i missing something (besides a shiny trophy)?"

    the projects are what build out the world. you wouldn't have any barnacles or jellisacs to auction if it weren't for projects creating the streets that produce them.

    as for "worker drones" - don't be insulting - we're players just like you. i don't have any names to call you.

    the trophy isn't the point. at least not for everyone. the communal effort is, and the challenge in working together. since the effort is spread across a number of streets, the new streets group channel handles a lot of the communication. it would be better if every project had a built in chat channel but that doesn't exist yet so we have to use the group.

    on the alakol projects the local chat was much more active due to the introduction of shared public blockmakers. there was even a system for dumping ingredients into piles beside the maker for 'maker operators' to process. it was organized to the point where it was once my exclusive duty on one project simply to purchase fuel cells and monitor and refuel the blockmaker while others would operate it and others would collect for it.

    opening up new regions of the world for you to enjoy doing solo play in is a big part of it as well. not asking to be thanked for that but geez if not gratitude at least some respect.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So... why does this game need these projects anyway? It seems that for many people this is the only purpose of the entire game... am i missing something (besides a shiny trophy)?

    The trailer for Glitch might suggest something about projects :)  Projects are one of the ways where we create the world, though admittedly a bit more structured than the rest of the world, where we are able to plant whatever wherever and hatch whatever wherever.
    Posted 19 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i also want to address the insulting "queen bee" "worker drone" language being bandied about.

    sometimes i'm at a project calling out what is needed and *asking* if anyone would like to take on a certain task.

    other times i'm in the Ilemenskie caverns collecting bat shit and auctioning it off to someone else at the project site who is calling out what is needed and asking people to take on tasks.

    so can we spare the class warfare rhetoric? there are a lot of people taking on a variety of different roles here.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL... easy... i'm just saying that on the very few street projects i tried to help on it was people gathered under a vendor, doing their tasks, not chatting. The "sense of community" was more beehive & worker bees, than it was community. I'm glad to hear that that's not the case anymore and there's lots of chatting and helping going on. Also, there are other things to auction off if that is my "game goal" (which is isn't, it's just the only way i can seem to ever do anything productive for a street project most of the time) so lack of need for some items isn't a huge deal.
    Also, you aren't actually "building" streets. They could just as easily be plunked in by the devs.
    @Mereck.. thank you for a reply that answers the "why" of street projects.

    @Striatic... i'm sure you can think of a few names to call me ;) I really didn't mean it as insulting. I have "worker bee" mentality in many areas of the game. Maybe "task focused" is less demeaning? I just never got that "sense of community" people talk about. Hopefully that's changed and when the world opens again i would love to give street projects another go. And i think calling it "class warfare" is a bit extreme! I love having a job to do and doing it, just calling it like *I'VE* seen it (little chat, lots of work).
    Posted 19 months ago by Niknik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Nuknuk I new exactly that you meant by worker drones. I thought of them as "worker bees". I cant help but giggle at all the little glitchers gathered under the vendor busy with little tinker tools working or blenders mixing. You cant really chat and work under there at the same time as you need to keep an eye on your energy levels etc. :)
    Again personally I only sell stuff/give because a friend is asking not because its for a project. I also don't feel project building is just full of people who want to work together as a community. I don't look at projects as away of opening a street. If we did not do it like someone said, the devs would just code it in their way. All projects are is another way to keep us the gamer interested in playing the game. The glitch gamer is no more or less important because they do or do not contribute to a project.

    @striatic I personally think you need to take a breath slowly in and out. Fell free to bite my ass but be warned I bit back lol lol :P
    Posted 19 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Also, you aren't actually "building" streets. They could just as easily be plunked in by the devs."

    Thank goodness they aren't! That's one of the aspects of Glitch that made me absolutely fall in love with it--while other games are happy just to have new areas magically appear one day, this one makes you work for it and feel a sense of accomplishment in doing so. How revolutionary! THANK YOU, GLITCH!
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes Misha... lol.. just working away. I never thought about that you DO have to keep a close eye on energy. Nothing sadder than little bunches of flowers all over... some pay the ultimate price.. HA!
    @striatic... just breathe like she says and skip the biting!!
    Posted 19 months ago by Niknik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • if the devs just plunked in streets then the game might expand too quickly or too slowly.

    projects link the world expansion to player enthusiasm and organization.

    the more enthused and organized players are, and thus more capable of managing an expanded world .. the more the world expands.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And nuknuk, it's just untrue to say that we aren't actually building the streets - sure, we're not coding them and creating the artwork, but as long as the devs aren't willing to open them until we contribute the resources needed, it can be considered building.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "projects link the world expansion to player enthusiasm and organization."


    Yes, they do....for people who do projects.  


    Maybe when projects can also be instigated by players, more players will feel less shut out of them.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Shepherdmoon, i get that. Just striatic was trying to make it sound that if not for the work of the project people we would never have new areas. Just not how it works. It's a fine feature and i'm glad people do enjoy it... it can add another dimension to the game for sure.
    Posted 19 months ago by Niknik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Yes, they do....for people who do projects."

    that isn't really true. the ability to organize and sustain projects is increasingly linked to the overall health of the glitch economy, especially the availability of certain supplies at auction.

    these supplies are not posted exclusively by project builders, and so world expansion becomes linked to the strength of the economy as a whole, not simply to those who do projects.

    trying to cast "project people" versus "non-project people" as if they were two islands and never the twain shall meet is just silly. glitch is a SHARED WORLD. the level of interaction, even indirect interaction will only increase.

    to suggest that the player base as a whole does not effect project completion is ludicrous. that's what this whole topic is about. it doesn't matter how enthusiastic project players are about expanding the world if the glitch economy doesn't fuel their efforts and not, for example, interfere with the efforts through things like constant mass planting.

    it's a shared world by design, and if you think you're playing in a vacuum you are not.

    oh, and under the way the game is designed, yes, those areas are made available only by project builders. if the developers just plunked down streets at random, we'd be playing a different game. so how about we discuss the game we're actually playing instead?
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, Cupcake, you *are* building them... but i mean more like you aren't in there coding and doing all the magical dev stuff... it can be done without any of us "pitching in"... it's just added to build a sense of community (that i've yet to really see but HOPE to see next time the World is open).
    Posted 19 months ago by Niknik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Queen bee/worker drone isn't "class warfare" ffs — but if you bandy around inside the game instructing people in what they can and can't do, then what do you expect? The fact that there are groups of players trying to impose rules so that they can more easily fulfill their objectives is no more or less insulting. 

    (NB I've not even come across an active project for eons; they seem to disappear long before I ever get into a test or around the world — those elements of the game have left me behind)

    Of course it would be great if everyone adopted the same rules of etiquette. I'd certainly like it if we all agreed and just got on with playing the game etc. But I think it's just a whole lot more realistic to accept that those things aren't always going to happen in a particular way all the time (griefers, newbies, individualists, in-game conflicts, whatever) and that perhaps it's better to focus on strategies that work without trying to enforce social rules.
    Posted 19 months ago by wurzel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well said wurzel.
    Posted 19 months ago by Niknik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe when projects can also be instigated by players, more players will feel less shut out of them.

    Interestingly, this is how I thought projects began for a long time - until about two weeks ago.  When I found out that devs had to 'manually' open projects, I was disappointed.  I wonder if projects will ever be player-opened and if so, how.
    Posted 19 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "(NB I've not even come across an active project for eons; they seem to disappear long before I ever get into a test or around the world — those elements of the game have left me behind)"

    projects were pretty much constantly active for the duration of the last test session.

    if you didn't spend a lot of time on the "frontier" you'd probably miss them though, as they are all in outlying areas relative to groddle.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  •  When you see a bunch of people working silently, you might want to ask what channel they're using.  I discovered during the last test that all the project coordination was actually being handled in a group, and was not being discussed in the local chat or in the New Streets group. 

    If you wanted to join in and participate, you had to join their  group, since they kept forgetting to use the local chat or the New Streets group to organize and communicate. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I created the thread and then retired for a while to listen to others.

    What I realize is that you can't fight passion with reason.

    It has come to my attention that there is a moral situation going on with planting and poisoning. It seems it is perfectly fine for pro-tree people to issue rules to others, to complain and even to create long winded whining threads condoning the poisoners. It is fine because they are standing on a moral higher ground. In a way planting trees equals good.

    On the other hand, if you, as a patch-lover try to do the same, you are branded as an egotistical being who is imposing rules on others. Only because poisoning seems to equal evil.

    I don't believe any of it, and I do think that if we want to coexist we need to learn that all actions in Glitch are neutral, and something you consider good might actually be hindering our world. 

    I also find it fascinating that the same people who are constantly complaining about the auctions and talking about "gouging" when the market is so young it hasn't even set yet, are the same people who are now complaining that we should be FREE to plant and to do as we please because "that is the goal of glitch". It is totally fascinating.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't thing "condoning" means what you think it means.  Try looking it up in a dictionary.
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, and to those who think we are rushing with the projects because of "gamblers rush" or that we do it out of our competitive instincts to shark on others. This is not the case. We rush depending on the project.

    As you can see, projects in Alakol, for instance, take longer to complete than those in Jethimadh. That is because we have been working for the past uh.. 5 tests? to unlock the Jethimadh tower, a totally amazing place filled with puzzles and cream of awesome. So as you can see, most of the contributors are not in for the trophy and the only reason we were on a hurry was because we had like 2 hours left to finish the project before the test closed.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For people who want to find a project without being in a group you can check on your map destination, it will have a street grayed out. You can't plot a destination to the grayed out area, plot a street before it, that is where you will find a project.
    Posted 19 months ago by tweetypie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @windborn maybe, my native language is spanish, my second language is hebrew, so yeah, I might get some interference between languages because of that.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's the drum I keep beating, coexistence, and that includes with players whose idea of fun is messing things up for others.  Something more is unrealistic.  You don't have to like what others do, you can ask for mechanics to be altered for better balance, but it's always going to come down to coexistence.

    wow, you guys were busy. lots of posts while I was typing.  "condemning" is the word
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @windoborn I actually looked it up and I had used it right. People create threads to cry over dead trees and then "forgive" poisoners and stuff like that as if it was a sin. Although you can also read the sentence and change that word for condemning, since some of them tend to do that too.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • At least for me, I don't agree that people pro-trees are allowed to make rules. I don't like that any more than I like your list of rules, yaya.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cupcake, so is your suggestion that people who want patches do it away from where the projects are somehow less of a "rule" than Yaya's request?

    There's a false equivalency here as if there are two extreme positions, one that wants all the patches to be full of trees and the other that wants all the trees dead.  The reality is that one side wants the patches full of trees and the other wants patches near the project clear so they can use them for materials. Which side is being extreme here? If some people want to do projects in a timely fashion and others want to stall projects by filling up the patches with trees, who is trying to impose their will on others?
    Posted 19 months ago by Blitz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Your first question answers itself, Blitz. A "suggestion" isn't a "rule".

    "one side wants the patches full of trees and the other wants patches near the project clear so they can use them for materials" You give a reason for the 2nd position, but not for the 1st position.
    "If some people want to do projects in a timely fashion and others want to stall projects by filling up the patches with trees..." Obvious bias here. Do you actually believe people plant trees to stall the projects?

    "Which side is being extreme here?" Clearly, you.

    Both practices have their place, and there have been some very helpful suggestions here.
    Chill.
    Posted 19 months ago by Phoebe Springback Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yaya, you write English very well. I never would have guessed it was your third language!
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Blitz, I wasn't making a rule at all. Project workers can use patches wherever they want, as far as I'm concerned. My point was that they shouldn't prohibit US from planting near the project, since they're capable of digging elsewhere. I did not mean they HAD to dig elsewhere, merely that they COULD.

    So, yes. It was much less of a rule.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cupcake, you are constantly complaining about trees, about gouging in auctions, about everything that doesn't agree with what you expect glitch should be. In fact, I had you and a couple others in mind when I talked about tree-lovers who want to impose on others.

    @shepherdmoon thanks! hehe, I love english, its a beautiful language.
    Posted 19 months ago by Yaya Subscriber! | Permalink