Topic

can we just settle this. family game or not?

i can't really find an official definition for what a family game is or not, but i mean, it's essentially the same as a 'family film' in regards to the use of language. so, while 'family game' doesn't have an objective definition (yet), 'family film' does. it's "a film genre that is designed to appeal to a variety of age groups and, thus, families." i think we all agree that the game appeals to many age groups. i suppose we could also agree that the game is PG-13 considering that a player must be 13 years or older to play (with parental consent). films typically are upgraded to PG-13 from PG when language is used sparingly (generally, less than 4 times) or the movie is especially violent. note that Glitch never uses language and is never violent, so the game really should be PG or even G. Certainly, it would be rated E for everyone with a disclaimer that they cannot control the content experienced online.  

ultimately though, the game has parallels with a family film that's rated PG-13. and as such, we shouldn't use language. 

thank you for your time.

(edit: ToS says 14 years or older, so I guess PG-14 would be more accurate.)

Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 19 20
  • So perhaps the question is not "Is Glitch a family game?" (which TS has firmly answered that it is not) but is "Is Glitch considered a public space?" Complicated question, I admit.

    Actually, the question that this has REALLY become "How does one deal with a fellow Glitch who uses what you consider offensive?" How would you (general 'you,' not specific 'you') deal if you heard such language on the street in RL?

    I have yet to witness excessive 'bad' language in the game. This seems a bit like trying to deal with a problem before there is one.

    @T. Lute: I'll give some thought. Potentially a song about going naked and packed full of euphemisms.
    Posted 15 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • is Family Guy a family show?  is all anime for all ages because it is animated therefore it appeals to all ages?
    What about all the shows on Adult Swim (futurama, south park, beavis & butthead)?
    Just because something "appeals" to someone does not make it appropriate for them.

    example-a friends 12 yr old daughter was traumatized by the newest nancy drew movie, which was made for families and rated PG.  The movie gave her horrible nightmares for months. The movie was just too dark and creepy for her, therefore inappropriate.  Her 10 yr old and 3 yr old sisters however, loved it.

    So your original statement:
    "ultimately though, the game has parallels with a family film that's rated PG-13. and as such, we shouldn't use language"
    is actually inaccurate because PG-13 means:
    PARENTS ARE URGED TO BE  CAUTIOUS.  SOME MATERIAL MAY BE INAPPROPRIATE FOR PRE-TEENAGERS
    It does not say that foul language will not be used, it states PARENTS need to make the decision if it is ok for their child.
    Therefore, if PARENTS want to let their kids play, then really nobody, even TS, can stop it.  And if we use FOUL language then its our right to do so(as the game allows) and the PARENTS fault if their child sees it.
    Posted 15 months ago by Gadzooks Subscriber! | Permalink
  • flask,

    I wasn't sure if you used coarse language liberally or not. I'm glad we agree that people shouldn't.

    However, I do not feel it's a family game Because of language use. Rather, I feel because it is a family game, that language shouldn't be used.

    Thanks.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 wurzel
    Posted 15 months ago by Gadzooks Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Note:  Saying "I don't use coarse language" is not the same as saying "People shouldn't use coarse language."
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lord Bacon-o,

    TS has not Firmly Answered that it is not. Show me that firm answer. Also, your new question is not what this thread is about intrinsically. Though, I do see where you are going with it. But, with all due respect, I feel that the question would derail the thread further. I please ask that we do not have that happen. Thank you.

    Gadzooks,

    Good point. And, by all rights, it reinforces the point that some language can be used. But we're not concerned with pre-teens. I do not agree that we should use language simply because we can. Do you really agree with that? It's ok to do something because they can't enforce a rule to stop it? I think we are better than that. When the real game comes out, there is going to be use of language in LC, and I'm going to remind people that they shouldn't use it. I would hope others would be with me on that. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ze point, he shall continue to miss it.

    Heh, I just noticed that the person who starts a thread is labeled the "Instigator."  Has it ever been so appropriate?  250+ responses!

    Truly, I don't think Dawgg is a troll.  I just think he's a person who needs to nanny.  *shrug*  I don't think any amount of argument, ridicule, or censure is going to get him to stop nannying.  I can ignore him as easily as I can ignore the begging, l33tspeaking fuckwits I run into elsewhere.

    Frankly, my primary concern is that he brings out the rebellious teenager in me.  I thought I'd left her far behind!  Where's my black lipstick?
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "He, as WindBorn helped point out, is that the game 'is for adults' and 'is not for kids.' This doesn't mean it's not a family game."

    Wait wait wait. How the heck are we defining a "family game" if not "it is not for kids"? Seems as if this discussion is so rooted in mess of semantics. Making statements like "I tried to use reason" and getting stuck on this point... Well, I'm starting to believe the troll theory.
    Posted 15 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @mr. dawgg you said "However, I do not feel it's a family game Because of language use. Rather, I feel because it is a family game, that language shouldn't be used."

    *boggles* you saw the maker of the game said it wasn't a family game right? so how come you are still arguing it is?
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh, boy.

    it's been fun, but now i think i'm done.

    there seems to be only ONE person who insists that because he wishes it to be a family game that it's a family game.

    it is NOT a family game and although it is contrary to my nature, if i have to dress my glitch in a black merry widow and wear fishnets and somehow use "fuck" in EVERY sentence i type just to make it less of a family game in your eyes, i will do it.

    and i will encourage EVERYONE to play along until all this whining stops and you move on.

    "pardon me, but will you mind terribly if i mine this fucking rock with you?"
    "why not at all. thank you for asking. have a lovely fucking day."

    trombone, somebody said darkly...
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pallas,

    I got that she felt people shouldn't because she's on a church committee.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Geeki Yogini,

    Show me where Stewart said it wasn't a family game.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • on the subject of movie ratings, everyone should go watch "This Film is not yet rated" and then come back and comment
    Posted 15 months ago by chip chipperstien Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lord Bacon-o,

    If you read the first post, it states clearly how we're defining it. It is a game that appeals to a wide audience. The audience this game appeals to is... ages 14-70 (and possibly older), males and females. That's a wide audience, wouldn't you agree?
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr Dawagg please shut the fuck up....just sayin  :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like how I'm expected to just ignore foul language, but then you guys have to attack me instead of just ignoring the thread I started.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • nooooooo.. Misha!!  oh no, you have made me snort laugh. 
    Posted 15 months ago by icatchm0nkeys Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @mr. dawgg, as you note in your original post, the TOS says its 14+, therefore its not a family game. 

    a family game implies a game parents can play with their children, and thus would be all ages, or at least younger than 14 - perhaps 8 and older. how do i know this? i make and research games for a living.
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @mr. dawgg see also 
    " Family games are usually meant for the young members of a family. They are educational and usually concentrate on stimulating the awareness of the player in a playful but serious way. Rayman 3 is a good example of a family game. The Familygame expression has also been used to refer to, by extension, the casual games."

    www.metaboli.co.uk/gaming-d...
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes... but "broad" does not mean "family." As you state, there is no real definition to "family game." You use the movie rating analogy (which is a poor analogy given that the game does not have fixed content).

    A PG-13 film would not, I believe, be defined as a "family movie." That's why it is given that rating. If my faulty memory serves me correctly, they instituted the PG-13 rating after they realized Gremlins and Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom got PG rating and really should have. (And, note, PG-13 allows a certain amount of swearing.)

    But again, this is troll level of semantics nitpicking. The definition doesn't matter.

    IF we consider Glitch a public space (which is still debatable), the question is how does one confront 'bad' language heard on a public street? What is the MOST effective way to address? If you walked by two people having a conversation in which they are swearing, would you walk away or would you tell them to stop. This is different than having someone use such language in the conversation WITH you.
    Posted 15 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • why start a thread if you want it ignored? This game is for anyone who wants to play it. It doesn't mean it is for everyone. Especially kids of any age as far as I am concerned.Where there is chat there is feedom of speech. If it gets too bad they will be banned from playing the game. Let them be to their own demise.
    Posted 15 months ago by Miss Muffett Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Geeki Yogini, I used the working definition of a family film in relation to a family game. I did this because I couldn't find an objective definition of a family game. You are using your game research experience to dictate that a family game is 8 years old and up. 

    Let me ask you this, Geeki Yogini. If Glitch was a single player game, would it be appropriate under the ESRB rating of E? If so, would you say it's a family game? If not, what rating would you give it?
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • you asked if it was settled of not.

    we said it's settled. it's not a family game. you continue to argue that it is.

    you don't base your assertion on any fact, but rather have as perverse an ability to misunderstand and mangle the meaning of language as i've ever seen, and now you have painted yourself into a corner with your incessant braying and quite frankly, it's amusing to see you continue to make yourself a twit.

    it's still settled. it's still not a family game.

    you're free to stop constructing arguments out of thin air and contrary to fact any time you want.

    this thread is amusing, not offensive. that's why we're not ignoring it. if you are offended by it, you may walk away at any time.

    remember that i have a trombone.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg, you can close the chat groups and create a group that is all about clean language and just have the window open.

    Problem solved.

    AND ROFL AT FLASK!
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg, this is not a family game. 

    I do not generally use coarse language (although from time to time I may!), and I haven't experienced anything so far in the game that would lead me to believe that any Local or Group chat is going to suddenly become overrun with a bunch of foul language.  I'm certainly not going to crucify someone for swearing or telling jokes that are definitely on the lewd side, but if I see something that is directed at anyone in a hurtful manner I will certainly speak up.  

    Now for what you can do to make this game more comfortable for yourself is the following:
    1/  Create your own group:  You'll be able to dictate what is said in that chat format and kick anyone out that doesn't meet your standards.
    2/  IM any individual that you feel has said something to another individual in a hurtful manner or report them to the Live Help group as abusive behaviour is something that is not condoned.
    3/  Use your God given talent to look away from the chat screen should something you find offensive, but that is meant in jest and does no real harm, and press those little arrow buttons on your keyboard to vacate the area where this conversation is occurring.

    Finally, this topic is said and done for me, there is not going to be any massive censoring campaign put on by the devs, and I hope that sometime in the near future this thread gets locked down and put away where it belongs.
    Posted 15 months ago by Menoboo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i think what people are reacting to is that mr. dawgg wants to police what is said in a game not meant for kids, as if it were meant for kids, even though mr. dawgg is not a kid himself (i think;))

    "oh nooo, what about the CHILDREN [who aren't even meant to be playing this game to begin with]"
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lord Bacon-o,

    Let me suggest rereading my first post again. In it, I mention that if not for the fact that the game is online (lack of fixed content, I agree), that the game itself would easily be PG or G. The game itself is very much free of 'bad' content that would make it PG-13.  The PG-13 comparison was only in relation to the amount of language used.  That is, the game allows 14 year olds to play, and PG-14 movies only allow a bit of language to be used. As a result, a PG-14 game should be fairly free of foul language.

    Also, those movies were bumped-up for their violence. Glitch has 0 violence.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am completely amused by this thread and have been laughing for hours. Everyone is so serious. My use of colorful language was not intended to offend. I agree with Stoot's guidelines and cautions; certainly he made his point.

    But don’t include me in that.  My response was not childish, me being a jerk or any rebel stance. In fact, if you read it without the “bad words”, it is a well written articulate statement. I wrote it that way on purpose. It was a verb. It was expressive and not aggressive. It was very on topic and perfectly communicated my response to his instigation.  It’s not a family game. I don't want to play with children. I then used an exaggerated example that was very inappropriate for children thus proving my point. It was also funny depending on your sense of humor.

    No post by me here contains anything confrontational, judgmental, derogatory or aggressive in any language. I can’t say that for some.  I don’t use other people’s use of vocabulary as an indicator of their maturity, social status, education or intelligence. I can’t say that for some here either. So for the lesser of several evils, I prefer the bad words. 

    Right now I am sitting on an island beach, looking at the sunset and the seagulls hoping this topic will inspire some to open up their eyes, help to make good choices and consider exploring their boundaries more.

    Here are some links I found interesting. Why Do Educated People Use Bad Words? NY Times
    http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/why-do-educated-people-use-bad-words/ 

    The Use of Swear Words to Combat Pain. Time Magazine 
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1913773,00.html#ixzz1Yof1aPoW 

     And this is for those of you with a sense of humor about this:
     http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fuck
    Posted 15 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let me ask you this, Geeki Yogini. If Glitch was a single player game, would it be appropriate under the ESRB rating of E? If so, would you say it's a family game? If not, what rating would you give it?

    Question ...if Tom and Jerry was not a cartoon but a man and a woman. Would you still laugh at it.. Stop trying to make people agree with you!!
    Posted 15 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Miss Muffet,

    I don't want it to be ignored. I just find it to be a double standard that people keep telling me to ignore language but they themselves can't simply practice what they preach. Ignore my reminders. Ignore my thread. Sound fair?
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @misha lol, yes, exactly!
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Let me suggest rereading my first post again. In it, I mention that if not for the fact that the game is online (lack of fixed content, I agree), that the game itself would easily be PG or G. The game itself is very much free of 'bad' content that would make it PG-13. "

    With all the drinking and no-no and purple.......you think its PG or G? 
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh, nooooo! the chillllldrennnnnn!

    trombone.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • moar trombone!
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "It's not going to be settled. And as Xev and I both concluded it won't be settled by TS."

    It is settled. Tiny Speck representatives have made their opinion clear in this thread and in many other threads and in the terms of service of the game itself. Glitch is a game that is intended for a broad range of players, but it is certainly not a family game in any way that the rest of the world (maybe not you) defines "family game". You may well continue to disagree with that, in spite of all the evidence. 

    Since you continue to do that, I can only come to the (rather depressing) conclusion that it is really the attention of others that you desire, rather than argument, conversation or debate. 

    Given this fact, I would really urge everyone to simply stop responding to you about this, since trying to point you in the direction of the facts is a task that is sisyphean in nature. I'm certainly not going to rise to the bait again. Good night.
    Posted 15 months ago by wurzel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "If a film uses "one of the harsher sexually derived words" (such as fuck) one to four times, it is routine today for the film to receive a PG-13 rating, provided that the word is used as an expletive and not with a sexual meaning (this was mentioned in Be Cool, when Chili Palmer complains about the movie industry.). Both Back to School and Away from Her contain four uses of "fuck" in non-sexual context. An example of a film that might suggest this criterion is Waiting for Guffman, which contains mostly PG-13 content, yet is rated R (brief strong language) because a man auditioning for a role uses fuck in a sexual context while quoting Raging Bull (the only time it is spoken in the movie). Also, some films are rated R but contain minimal use of the word, such as Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, Run Lola Run, 88 Minutes, and Frost/Nixon. In addition, if a film has PG-13 content, yet uses fuck many times in one scene, then it generally gets an R rating (for example, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles and The King's Speech). Exceptions may be allowed, "by a special vote of the ratings board" where the board feels such an exception would better reflect the sensibilities of American parents. A couple of exceptions were noted: rare films such as Guilty by Suspicion were allowed as many as nine uses of the word; probably because of the precedent set in the 1970s by politically important films such as All the President's Men. All the President's Men was once rated R but then re-rated PG on appeal. It is a common misconception that if a movie uses fuck in a nonsexual context more than once, it will automatically receive an R rating. In reality, PG-13 movies have been allowed two or three uses. Some movies such as Valkyrie, I, Robot, The Social Network, It's A Boy Girl Thing, and The Sum of All Fears each have fuck said more than once, but still received the PG-13 rating. There have been two extreme circumstances so far: Gunner Palace has 42 uses of the word, 2 used sexually,[25] and The Hip Hop Project has 17 uses. Both films were rated PG-13 on appeal from an R rating. Another example of a film not getting an R rating, despite having a sexual use of fuck, is "The 6th Day". The film is rated PG-13 (for strong sci-fi violence, brief strong language, and some sensuality), yet contains a scene in which Arnold Schwarzenegger tells the villain to "go fuck yourself". The possible reason for this is that this is the only use of the word in the film. Precedent for this dates back to the early days of the system, in which an independent film called Saturday Morning (a documentary including interviews with youth) was allowed many extra uses of the word to accommodate its documentary nature without restricting its primary audience. (See Farber's book, described below, for documentation of the Saturday Morning fact.) The word cunt, while rarely used in American films, has warranted an NC-17 on at least one occasion, in the film Tropic of Cancer, although the MPAA has allowed the term pussy to be used in PG-13 films, such as Super 8 and Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen." - via wikipedia.

    I am going to use the F word 1 to 4 times every 3 hours in game.
    Posted 15 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Misha, I'm not trying to make Geeki Yogini agree with me. I'm genuinely curious what s/he has to say since s/he is an expert.

    Also, I missed your other post earlier, G. Yogini. 

    http://www.metaboli.co.uk/gaming-dictionary/defnition-of-family_game.htm

    That was your link and post to provide a definition. It really doesn't pin down a definition though. It uses 'usually' and says that they can also be another game type entirely. I certainly would agree that Glitch is a Casual Game, wouldn't you?
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @mr. dawgg really? "he's an expert?"

    sigh.

    oh sneaky, you changed it to gender neutral. very good.
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wurzel, show me the overwhelming evidence where TS has clearly stated that it's not a family game. Please. I'd love to see it.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Er, I'd like to make it clear that neither I nor my organization are at all affiliated with Mr. Dawgg in any way. I leave it to you good people to read my posts and draw your own conclusions. 

    I'm firmly team Stoot on this. No more needs to be said. If it does, complete the following steps:

    1. Open TOS
    2. Read it
    3. Unclear? Repeat step 2.
    4. Garnish with a dash of Stoot posts.
    Posted 15 months ago by Xev Subscriber! | Permalink
  • G Yogini,

    I actually edited it already. So don't worry about the he/she issue. I made a mistake.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just as long as it's not a rusty trombone.

    <ducks>
    Posted 15 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Xev, we both came to a similar conclusion that the matter will not be settled by TS. True or false?
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok, It's official....Mr. Dawgg, I think you are a troll.

    Bring out the trombone...

    I am bringing CHEESE!
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • won't SOMEBODY please think of the children?

    my trombone is NOT rusty. it is here, by my desk, in case i need it in a hurry. for real.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry, Mr. D. I'm pretty sure you'll outlast me in any debate. If you're unclear, I encourage you to reread my posts. If you still want to pursue it, feel free to contact me in game privately and I'll be happy to discuss it, (civilly and devoid of cuss words), with you.
    Posted 15 months ago by Xev Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Innie, think what you will. I don't even know why you disagree with me anyways. Do you regularly curse in public chat?
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you Xev.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I admire Dawgg's tenacity, and for purely selfish reasons I hope he never gives up this fight.

    Also,

    PHEAR TEH TROMBONE!
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i have declared that oxygen is visible and what's more, it is mauve.

    this is true because i want it to be true, regardless of whatever facts are presented to me.

    i will continue to call this issue unresolved as long as anyone out there insists on confronting me with facts.

    it is my hope that once i have ground everyone down to nubs from the sheer exhaustion of trying to follow my nonreasoning, that i will be able to declare this resolved in my favor.

    oxygen is mauve and i have a trombone.

    i know how to use it.

    but not with cheese.

    speaking of cheese....

    *wanders off*
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 19 20