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### Topic

#### Stop the griefing in the Comunity Herb Gardens

Glitch Change Log
"So migrant gardeners can have time to admire their work, public plots'll be locked to the seed planter for 60 seconds after harvestin time."
13 days ago.
Thanks Tiny Speck, thank you indeed, this thread can now rest in peace.
******************************************************************************************************************
TOO LONG, DIDN´T READ: THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ABUSE, NOT PICKED HERBS. There are Glitchens using unfair tactics to grief the users of the Herb Gardens BEYOND the normal "free for everyone", like using gameshow wheels to block your view of your crops and camping with 2 or 3 thieve friends to block your vision or splanking you and then proceeding to group steal your crops. They are actively mugging people in the herb gardens, not just picking stuff for free. This needs to be solved
Regardless of the rules of the gardens, or rules of the game...what we do notice in the end is that the area does promote griefing. People see people planting, and naturally, they know that if they get at the harvest before the other person does, it causes grief. Minor grief, yes, but distress is distress. Sure, no one is entitled to what they plant per se, and anyone can harvest whatever they want, but that does not prevent the core issue, it is causing strife altogether.
So instead of arguing about who is right, whether it be the planters or the griefers, perhaps it would make more sense for a solution that would benefit everyone to come about. I.E., brainstorming. Arguing back and forth is not doing anything for anyone. So let's all try solve the problem, and perhaps TS will listen and implement what we come up with, if it is good enough and lets everyone be happy!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
REST OF THE OPENING POST EDITED: I have decided to remove from the front page my original Opening Post because the actual debate and conversation doesn´t fit anymore into it, and I feel that pressing the issue to move forward is more important than chew on something that isn´t relevant anymore, and is better than opening a new thread.
It was edited not to misguide anyone or trying to hide something, is just a tool to keep the debate at hand on track.
If you are still interested in reading it (is long, boring, filled angst and frustration, and irrelevant to the actual conversation) you can find it here:
docs.google.com/document/d/...

Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink

### Replies

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- Mikah: "Have you even used the comunity Herb Gardens? If you used them you just haven´t asked that question."
  You didn't ask this question of me, but I'll answer it anyway because I agree with Treesa.
  YES, I have used the Community Gardens. I go often and water every single plot that needs it, I clear anything that has been left uncleared. I used to plant any open plots, but since people sometimes need a place to plant themselves, I now leave at least a couple of plots open. IF there is something available to harvest, I do so. This is rare. I enjoy the community gardens because I add no stress to using them. I use them as it appears the developers intended. If it is not what they intended, I still am breaking no rules, nor am I infringing on anyone else's gameplay. No one bothers me because I go there with the intent of giving, not getting. It is a communal experience for me.
  Others on this thread have called me a griefer, not because of anything I have done in the game, but because I agree with those who say that community gardens should not be used as private gardens.
  It's not the fact that you posted a thread to vent about what happened to you (which was no doubt unpleasant and uncalled for) but rather the fact that you insist that anyone who disagrees with you, or offers potential solutions, has to change their minds and agree with you that has people frustrated with you.
  Posted 12 months ago by Audaria | Permalink
- @striatic: That´s exactly my point, I don´t want to be able to be the only one who harvests in Herb Gardens, I want to be able to be there without being pushed around by people who wants to get profit for free, even if they have to use dirty tactics and circumventions of the UI.
  About the gameshow wheel: you should know the internet better, that wheel trick may get popular and even get some "how to" guide in the forums. I wouldn´t be surprised.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Kirnan: It seems that you are able to organize my ideas better than myself, so let me quote you.
  "...Regardless of the rules of the gardens, or rules of the game...what we do notice in the end is that the area does promote griefing. People see people planting, and naturally, they know that if they get at the harvest before the other person does, it causes grief. Minor grief, yes, but distress is distress. Sure, no one is entitled to what they plant per se, and anyone can harvest whatever they want, but that does not prevent the core issue, it is causing strife altogether.
  So instead of arguing about who is right, whether it be the planters or the griefers, perhaps it would make more sense for a solution that would benefit everyone to come about. I.E., brainstorming. Arguing back and forth is not doing anything for anyone. So let's all try solve the problem, and perhaps TS will listen and implement what we come up with, if it is good enough and lets everyone be happy!"
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Oh man, this thread again?
  THIS THREAD IS NOW DIAMONDS
  p.s
  lolherbfrenzy
  Posted 12 months ago by Volkov | Permalink
- The point you don't seem to get is that no 'solution' is needed for a problem that is just something you persist in spinning up. TS does not need to change anything. What needs to change? Uh, well.....
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- @SkyWaitress: Let me tell you, first of all, that I appreciate the input in your post, you have reached the same level of understanding of the Herb Gardens like me.
  Second, don´t want anyone to "side by me" or to "attack the thieves". I understand that they are not stealing, but I understand that what they are doing is griefing and abusing, they are knowingly engaging in an activity that creates distress, and they are able to do so because of the "rules of the game" allows them.
  In @Kirnan words: People see people planting, and naturally, they know that if they get at the harvest before the other person does, it causes grief. Minor grief, yes, but distress is distress. Sure, no one is entitled to what they plant per se, and anyone can harvest whatever they want, but that does not prevent the core issue, it is causing strife altogether.
  instead of arguing about who is right, whether it be the planters or the griefers, perhaps it would make more sense for a solution that would benefit everyone to come about. I.E., brainstorming.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @ruptures :D
  "The best solution I can think of is: huuuge, terraced community herb gardens on a new special street requiring a hidden key."
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that this thread uses the term "griefing" incredibly liberally--to mean anything that a player does that another player does not like, if they know the other player will not like it when they do it.
  I know that not everyone likes it when I pet/water egg trees. I do not characterize that as griefing. Likewise, I think there is a lot of gray area between "interacting in gardens in a way that is not the awesomest way as you see it" and "griefing." I do not think it's problematic that there is gray area. I also think that people are opting into the gray area when they interact with the herb gardens in an unsupported way.
  (I am not saying that petting/watering egg trees is like harvesting--I am just saying that part of the reason people are getting annoyed is because you are lumping together activities for which the jury is still out with activities that people generally think are bad and then insisting that people either accept or reject that lumped together package rather than discussing piecemeal.)
  Posted 12 months ago by Pomegrandy | Permalink
- Or perhaps huge steel cages to enclose YOUR private herb garden and keep those thieving others out.
  Oh... wait...
  Did this thread just get started to promote an echo chamber of agreement? Comments from the disagreeable will be ignored and the good ones cut-n-pasted, and the discussion is ovah?
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- What striatic said: the gameshow wheel thing feels like an exploit, and should be treated as such.
  Posted 12 months ago by Holgate | Permalink
- The only people who an make the call about whether or not a specific behavior is "griefing" or "allowed game play" are the TS staff.
  Anyone can report such behavior by using the Report Abuse option either in-game, or from the Help tab. After that, it's up to staff to decide.
  If you have reported the behavior, then all you can do is wait for staff's decision. Trying to paint yourself as a victim in public forums isn't going to change their decision. It just highlights that you don't understand the rules.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @Pomegrandy: I couldn´t agree more whit you "FWIW I am most interested in actual game mechanic suggestions rather than ideas like "encourage friendliness" or "where everyone respects each other."
  I was using the "encourage friendliness" argument to deal with posters that didn´t understand my basic point.
  And yes, I go to the Herb Gardens to grow a batch of herbs for my use, not gonna lie to you guys.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @WindBorn: Your point of view has been shot down in flames multiple times in this thread by many people, bringing it up again will not make it right somehow.
  Please don´t repeat the same idea over and over, collaborate instead with something new that helps this conversation to move forward.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Holgate: That´s my point, is one of many tool for griefers, and can be used systematically.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Gosh Mikah, so has yours.
  I don't think that's going to change your behavior
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @WindBorn: You haven´t been following the thread properly then. You should.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Parrow Gnolle: Let me point you to this post made by Kirnan, he somehow manages to express my point more coherently:
  "Regardless of the rules of the gardens, or rules of the game...what we do notice in the end is that the area does promote griefing. People see people planting, and naturally, they know that if they get at the harvest before the other person does, it causes grief. Minor grief, yes, but distress is distress. Sure, no one is entitled to what they plant per se, and anyone can harvest whatever they want, but that does not prevent the core issue, it is causing strife altogether.
  So instead of arguing about who is right, whether it be the planters or the griefers, perhaps it would make more sense for a solution that would benefit everyone to come about. I.E., brainstorming. Arguing back and forth is not doing anything for anyone. So let's all try solve the problem, and perhaps TS will listen and implement what we come up with, if it is good enough and lets everyone be happy!"
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- *laugh* I probably don't play the game "properly" either.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @Audaria: Let me thank you for your post, more of these replies are needed to move this conversation forward.
  I sometimes am my worst enemy in this kind of exchange because I tend to take things in a personal level, making my responses biased by my point of view. Thankfully there are some friends ingame that can translate my pastiche of ideas into something actually readable:
  Kirnan wrote:
  "Regardless of the rules of the gardens, or rules of the game...what we do notice in the end is that the area (comunity Herb Gardens) does promote griefing. People see people planting, and naturally, they know that if they get at the harvest before the other person does, it causes grief. Minor grief, yes, but distress is distress. Sure, no one is entitled to what they plant per se, and anyone can harvest whatever they want, but that does not prevent the core issue, it is causing strife altogether.
  So instead of arguing about who is right, whether it be the planters or the griefers, perhaps it would make more sense for a solution that would benefit everyone to come about. I.E., brainstorming. Arguing back and forth is not doing anything for anyone. So let's all try solve the problem, and perhaps TS will listen and implement what we come up with, if it is good enough and lets everyone be happy!"
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- This discussion doesn't need to 'move forward.' But I guess since someone has appointed themselves moderator we should all get in line. To do otherwise, to not echo and augment agreement wouldn't be 'productive.'
  (how come I never get quoted? *sad puppydog look*)
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- @Parrow Gnolle: It needs to move forward, I need that people like yourself understand that the actual mechanics of comunity Herb Gardens is a nurturing place for deviant activities in both sides of the "I want to harvest everything there for free" and "I want to keep what I plant" groups.
  Is the only place in the game where competitive tasks ends in aggresive behavior, and I don´t think that´s the spirit of the game. Nothing else in the world of Glitch spawn this kind of interaction, and it should be brought to the attention of the comunity to find some kind of solution.
  Maybe this is a case of "you had to be there to understand it" kind of argument? I bet that if you have been the recipient of the grief I had to put up to yesterday, you`d be as annoyed as me.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- ¬_¬ Parrow Gnolle: "(how come I never get quoted? *sad puppydog look*)"
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Nothing else in the world of Glitch spawn this kind of interaction,
  Except tree patches and mining streets
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- no, what mikah describes is griefing. fullstop. when you exploit a game UI flaw - and it is a flaw - to 'lock out' another player from play, and then mock them for asking you to stop, that would be griefing.
  it all comes down to the UI exploit. and the subsequent taunting, to some extent.
  i don't care whether people hang out in the community herb gardens and pick as they please, even out from under a planter's nose. "all may harvest" afterall. but .. "all may harvest" should mean that you *don't prevent other people from harvesting*.
  i'm actually kinda floored that anyone in this thread would trot out 'all may harvest' as an excuse for players preventing other players from harvesting. please think about your logic here for 15 to 35 seconds.
  so long as players are not locking other players out of harvesting there will be a relatively even distribution of herbs, even if there isn't a relatively even amount of effort put into planting. this seems to be the spirit of the thing as articulated by the signs and underlying mechanics of the community gardens.
  Posted 12 months ago by striatic | Permalink
- @WindBorn: Tree patches can be replanted by anyone, anytime, and then harvested by everyone. Herbs doesn´t work that way.
  Minerals can be harvested in group to yield more minerals, the more the merrier. Minerals dont need interaction of any player to spawn, so you can say they are free for all, trully free. Herbs are a good that can block other people from using the patches, either you got them or you don´t.
  Again, this issue has been treated already early in this very same forum, I encourage you to read the responses because they are filled with good insight.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- I can agree wholeheartedly about the griefing bit. But also agree with the fullstop. Problem is, I and others sense that said griefing issue is being used as the backdrop for yet another "The Community Gardens Are Broken" shriekfest. So... deal. Fullstop. Change something about the game show wheel mechanics. Do it. Done. Fullstop.
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- Mikah, this really has nothing to do with herbs.
  i could go into lengthy explanations about how you're wrong about trees or minerals being uncontroversial, but enough pixels have been spilled over those things already.
  you're just .. well .. wrong about herbs being mechanically special too, especially compared to trees. btw trees can't be "replanted anytime". there is a seedling phase that every tree goes through that is comparable in length to the guanoed herb growth times, during which time no poisoning/replanting is possible. so there's that.
  herbs have nothing to do with this. they aren't your herbs if you plant them in a community garden and they can't be stolen from you if they aren't yours.
  what is yours and what can be robbed from you is your ability to act in game. if you are locked out of your ability to act it doesn't really matter what you're doing .. picking herbs or chasing butterflies .. the issue isn't the action you are attempting to perform but is instead your inability to perform it.
  Posted 12 months ago by striatic | Permalink
- Has anyone actually tested the Game Wheel mechanic? I have a bunch of tickets I'm willing to donate to science.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @striatic: You have been able to analyze, comprehend, undesrtand and compress all the reasons I had to open this thread in a couple pharagraphs, trully amazing feat!
  But I need to dissent about the comparison with minerals and trees, because all of those can be found anywhere in the world of Glitch if you simply walk from street to street. Minerals and Trees aren´t comprised in only 3 streets with all the players interested in harvest them piling up on each other for the chance to use a single spot for a couple minutes.
  They are different because Herbs puts a social mechanic to the whole process. It can be subjected to greed, grief, harassment, hoarding, hogging and well, just bad behaviour.
  Thank you.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @WindBorn: You should do it for science!
  1.- Go to herb gardens with a friend.
  2.- Find plots with guano on them and some glitchen waiting for it to harvest.
  3.- Give your friend a gameshow ticket and both spawn at the same time the wheels (but don´t spin it) in a way that they block the view of the patch.
  4.- Proceed to mouse click or hit the enter key until you get at least one of the fertilized plots, or more if you can and are lucky.
  5.- If someone complains just say "FREE HERBS LOL REPORT ME NOOB!"
  6.- Once you have succeed then report back what the other glitchens in the garden tought of your little experiment.
  7.- Please share with us how do you feel during the whole process.
  I assure you it will be enlightening.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Well since there has been nothing useful since last night, I can only say that no one wants to work toward any goal of everyone being happy. Everyone wants to make the other side conform, and be done with it. Mikah, I seriously advise you to move on past this thread, and the gardens. Community spirit can be found elsewhere, but certainly not this forum.
  Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan | Permalink
- Mikah (( hugs )) I'm so sorry this happened to you. Please contact me in-game, I want to talk with you about what happened and what's been going on in the community gardens. <3
  Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ | Permalink
- most "blocking" griefs don't work because you can circumvent using keyboard instead of mouse.
  "Minerals and Trees aren´t comprised in only 3 streets with all the players interested in harvest them piling up on each other for the chance to use a single spot for a couple minutes."
  again wrong. minerals extraction occurs in exactly that situation in ajaya bliss and neva neva. in especially busy times it may be neigh impossible to find an untapped sparkly rock in all of Ilemenskie. spice trees, due to the ongoing spice wars, are largely confined to Ix alone. good luck planting a gas tree in Ix or a spice tree in Kalavana.
  you can also get herbs with complete reliability from your own private garden or a friend's, something that's impossible with minerals.
  this is not a special case, and we've had similar complaints about various resources since .. well .. since alpha at least.
  Posted 12 months ago by striatic | Permalink
- @Mikah: Can you do me a favor and edit your OP to correct the typo in the subject?
  Should be "Community."
  Like that really great show. :)
  Thanks! Love the thread!
  Posted 12 months ago by CrashTestPilot | Permalink
- @striatic: You are selectively picking qualities from the harvestable goods in the game to make your point valid.
  "again wrong. minerals extraction occurs in exactly that situation in ajaya bliss and neva neva. in especially busy times it may be neigh impossible to find an untapped sparkly rock in all of Ilemenskie."
  You can scout many, many streets to find sparkly, this resource is not only located in Ajaya and NevaNeva, there are currently more than 50 streets that yields sparkly as you can see here:
  http://glitch.alwaysdata.net/resource.php?resource=Sparkly
  Herbs are only located in three streets. No more. If you are a new player or just don´t want to have a bog house, then you have to use the Herb Gardens or have a friend with a key to a bog house, and you know is easier to go to a street than to find a person who will give you a key. (I know there are many people offering keys, but they are less than the actual demand of herb planting space)
  "spice trees, due to the ongoing spice wars, are largely confined to Ix alone. good luck planting a gas tree in Ix or a spice tree in Kalavana."
  Tree wars are just a "tug o´war" with factions pushing they preferred trees among some regions, but this behavior never endangers the constant flow of each resource, nor prevents other from get them freely roaming the streets.
  This argument doesn´t even tackles the issue of scarcity of resources, you can find PLENTY of gas or spice in the game:
  Spice: http://glitch.alwaysdata.net/resource.php?resource=Spice
  Gas:http://glitch.alwaysdata.net/resource.php?resource=Gas
  Understanding that Herbs are not a "normal" resource is key to comprehend this issue.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- i should elaborate ..
  most "blocking" griefs don't work very well because you can circumvent using keyboard instead of mouse. so it seems to be with this grief as well. problem is, there are a fair number of players who don't understand that you can select things that are behind other things by simply tapping enter and then selecting the thing you want to select from the menu.
  in the case of the gardens, this is doubly tricky for the naive player because even if they do understand that they can select the garden by hitting enter, using arrow keys and selecting from the menu .. they may also not understand that they can then navigate from individual plot to individual plot by using the arrow keys.
  seriously, a lot of players don't understand this. lots of times in game i've had players 'yell' at me for standing in front of something they want to click, because they are so mouse based they never learned how to use the keyboard for interacting with stuff.
  most predatory players in glitch do so by exploiting the ignorance of newer players. the devs usually eliminate those opportunities over time, like when they fixed the "auction a depleted shrine powder" scam. mikah certainly isn't "new" though, so i don't understand the frustration *shrug* .. but i do know that such tactics can be incredibly frustrating for newish players.
  Posted 12 months ago by striatic | Permalink
- @striatic: Thanks for understanding my point, this is the first time you said something that didn´t attacked me but the issue at hand.
  Someone has to think of the new users, you know? If a problem is detected that can diminish or affect negatively the perception of the game in the early stages of adoption (being a noob) then it has to be dealt in some way.
  Is like saying "why I should care kids are bullied in school?"... you SHOULD think about that and find a solution or at least a way to deal with that problem.
  Again, if someone wants to grief you using the tactics I have described in this thread, they will do so, adding insult to the injury by mocking you in the process. Is awful, and I don´t like people who feels empowered finding a way to twist the own game mechanics to harm you.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- I can see, even though the OP may have claimed otherwise, that this is now just another "whine about the community gardens" thread.
  That said, there is really no reason at all to need herbs. If you don't like that style of house, just do without. If you're one of the compulsive types who needs to collect each badge, like a six year old might need every dinosaur sticker for their book, figure out your compromise.
  Clearly this is now YARACG (yet another rant about community gardens)
  For those not interested in feeding the rant, I suggest we let the thread wither away.
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- For sure this is too long, but perhaps I can now alienate everyone. If not that, perhaps I can at least put an end to the idea of a Splendora fan club (god, I hope so).
  I have been to the community gardens and seen behaviour that seems deliberately parasitical and intended to cause distress. I agree with striatic that some if of it is clearly griefing (in fact, I agree with everything striatic has said above). Behaviour that seems to be griefing can, of course, be reported. The actions TS takes in response to such cases will be kept private. However, even if TS admonishes or sanctions those who are reported, other players may come along and engage in similar behaviours. How can we respond to this?
  One option is to ask the devs to make changes so as to provide fewer opportunities for players to be predatory, parasitical, uncooperative or unkind. This is often harder than it seems. What seems like a "fix" to one problem, often leads to other problems, and trying to "fix" everything can suck all the life out of a game. Nevertheless, I do believe that the devs are making changes that will have good results -- but these are big changes that aren't likely to happen this week or next.
  In the meantime, the other option we have is to advise players to adapt to the existing game mechanics. For pragmatic reasons, I am in favor of this.
  Adapting to the existing game mechanics means giving up the expectation that you will be able to harvest from seeds you've planted in a community garden. It means accepting that once you put a seed in a plot, others can and very likely will harvest it. It means accepting that it will be difficult to complete quests or keep yourself supplied with herbs or crops by growing these in community gardens. It also means recognizing that neither game mechanics nor game rules prevent players from planting in community garden plots and then standing over them waiting for a harvest. It means recognizing that an empty plot is a resource that is tied up for the same amount of time (given equivalent watering and fertilization) and gives the same value for a player who harvests and then plants as for a player who plants and then harvests. In the community gardens, the game mechanics and game rules do not enforce the labor theory of property, but neither do they enforce game play where people give generously and take sparingly or give back what they take.
  If a player who plants 12 plots and waits to harvest them is using more than their fair share of a community resource, then so is the player who harvests 12 plots and then replants them. The player who plants and waits for a harvest makes it more difficult for the spontaneous player to find herbs available for harvest. However, the player who harvests and then plants makes it more difficult for the planful player to find plots available to plant. The player who plants for others is being altruistic, but also is creating an opportunity for others to be parasitical. Each system has advantages and disadvantages, and there is sometimes value in diversity. However, when community plots are a scarce resource, using different systems side-by-side creates value-sapping conflict. It is therefore in our best interests as a community to adopt one system, recognizing that this will reduce (though not eliminate) conflict. Effective collaboration often requires adopting a less-than-optimal solution in order to avoid the worse outcome of no solution at all.
  The game mechanics favor a system in which people plant without expectation of being able to harvest from what they plant. The garden signs further suggest that people play in the way game mechanics favor. This is reality, and various people have posted suggestions on how to work within this reality to reach your goals and enjoy the game. In most cases, they are trying to be helpful. However, those who are trying to be helpful would do well to keep in mind that, just because you understand how to adapt to the current game mechanics, that doesn't mean it's obvious to everyone else. Someone noted above that this is not a public library. I agree, it's not. It's something new -- and when faced with something new, people tend to draw on prior experience with things that seem similar. Experiences vary, leading to different models and different suppositions about how things work. Yes, the signs in the community gardens suggest to one model rather than another, but they don't explain that model in detail and, in my opinion, the instructions for certain quests are a bit misleading.
  Finally, *is" does not imply *ought." The game mechanics favor a certain model, so I advise playing in accordance with that model. That doesn't mean I think it's the best model. It also doesn't mean the devs think it's the best model. TS has, after all, indicated that they plan to make changes. So discussing what works and what doesn't and how the game might be improved can be useful and interesting. Whatever changes are made, though, the devs are not going to be able to keep people who want to be jerks from finding ways to be jerks. If you are easily upset and advertise that, you're probably going to become a magnet for people who enjoy upsetting other people. It's also easy, in a game like this, to disrupt the gameplay of others or offend others without meaning to. So if you can be resilient and forgiving, while adapting your game play to give others fewer opportunities for bad behaviour, you're likely to enjoy the game more.
  Posted 12 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- @Parrow Gnolle: Have you ever tackled the main issue of the thread? Have you ever hinted some solution to it? Have you ever tryed to understand the mechanics of the griefing tactics I have described?
  This thread is evolving quite well, thank you, got a lot of input that I didn´t previously had, got a better understanding of the prevalent "unspoken" rules of Herb Gardens, heard compelling arguments and generally got a more, well rounded understanding of the issue.
  I would love to hear more about the REAL issue of this thread from you, so far you have only complained about me, about herbs and about how tired are you of threads that ARE NOT this one.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Splendora: Your understanding on the matter and your firm grasp of logic is amazing, you got me at "For sure this is too long..."
  *puts his Splendora t-shirt, hat and pin, waves little Splendora flag*
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Mikah: apparently you failed to notice my comment earlier where I suggested they "change something about the game show wheel mechanics." Save for a few posts past that post in this thread very little more about griefing has been added that isn't just repetition.
  When you launched the thread you said right out in front that it was about griefing and not herbs. There have been some constructive posts made since we figured out what to do (look into how the game show wheel works) but also a lot of drift into yet another community garden/herbs rant.
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- Splendora: I agree with much of what you say, particularly the model you suggest people play with.
  You said : "The player who plants and waits for a harvest makes it more difficult for the spontaneous player to find herbs available for harvest. However, the player who harvests and then plants makes it more difficult for the planful player to find plots available to plant. The player who plants for others is being altruistic, but also is creating an opportunity for others to be parasitical."
  Your analysis of the conflicting player types is interesting, but have to re-hash the point that what the 'planful' player wants is effectively a private herb garden, which the game provides (in the form of herb houses).
  The community herb gardens are the *only* place for the 'spontaneous' player.
  I also disagree with your characterization of someone who takes what another has freely given as being 'parasitical'. An altruistic planter wants other people to take the herbs. Accepting someone elses generosity is not a negative thing.
  Posted 12 months ago by Lukie | Permalink
- @Splendora: Excellent summary! That's a reality-based assessment of the current state of affairs if I ever read one, well done!
  There are always some people who will be jerks. It's okay to complain about them and okay to confront them. Then the next thing to do is to figure out how to maximize your own happiness given the constraints of the environment. Once you've done that, you can also think about how to make things better for everyone—again, within the game rules and mechanics.
  Posted 12 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- That was definitely an excellent speech Splendora, and I am glad someone has opted to give some critical advice, as even if no permanent solution is found, that is a good means of adapting.
  I still hope for some fundamental coding change that will enable things to run more smoothly, though as it is, housing in a month or two will fix all of it anyway.
  Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan | Permalink
- @Parrow Gnolle: It has been a pretty busy thread, excuse me if I haven´t noticed that post, my bad.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- I certainly hope the 'housing changes' won't "Fix it all." We could all die from the colliding rainbows, the unicorn flatulence, and the sweet sweet smell of boredom.
  If people think the devs didn't know what they were doing when they deliberately set up the community gardens the way they did and then introduced all the new quests and recipes for Herbs, they are fooling themselves. Not all areas of the game are the crucible that the community gardens have become, but there's no area in the game where we are supposed to be reciting poetry and spreading flower petals before one another. An amount of turmoil is essential in games like this. If you want sweet sweet peaceful loveliness, turn your computer off and go feed your cat (make sure they all get some if you have multiple cats, though.)
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- --- An amount of turmoil is essential in games like this.
  I musta missed somethin somewhere....
  Posted 12 months ago by diaveborn ♥ | Permalink
- Maybe when you run out of flower petals to spread.
  Or do you think the Community Gardens are just a terrible mistake and the devs will be 'fixing' it shortly?
  Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink
- " the player who harvests and then plants makes it more difficult for the planful player to find plots available to plant. "
  I plant free herbs in the community gardens often. There are always empty plots. Lots. Yesterday was the first day that one of the gardens was full.
  You may call them "conflicting player types" if you want but all we are doing is what the sign suggests. Plant for everyone and harvest what you need.
  The people who seem to know the most about this so called "griefing" are the ones who spend too much time hanging around the community gardens. I just go there and plant and/or harvest if there is anything ready to harvest. I don't hang around and guard plants or keep black lists of people who I don't approve of. There are three community gardens with a total of how many plots? If you are there all the time you are surely using more than your share of what would have to be spread among 20-50 thousand players. "Claiming" plots just can't work with that many people. Not to mention its a waste of time. If you haven't got an herb garden and you don't want to buy a bog house why not just go harvest guano and sell it so you can use the currents to buy herbs? The auction prices of herbs have come down but guano is still getting good prices.
  Posted 12 months ago by Treesa | Permalink

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