Topic

is glitch awesome or awful or both?

glitch is beginning to really bore me.

.. and yet at the same time ..

glitch is becoming more and more interesting to me.

when it comes to projects and skill building and item acquiring and leveling .. i'm done. i'm bored as piggy plop with all these things, and the weather is just too good to even try to like them.

projects suck. there's just not enough player input versus player effort. too much work, next to no creativity or even choice. there's too much competition, and while collaboration is still extremely strong on certain projects... meh.

the quests suck. well, most. the racing ones are really good, and some of the timer based quests are alright .. but in general they are all too similar to one another. same thing, different animations, over and over... yawn.

skill accumulation is actually pretty decent, and i love the timer based component and even the progressively longer learn times .. but with projects and quests being so unappetizing that acquiring skills seem rather useless.

subscriptions .. were a let down to say the least. the introduction of teleportation tokens last test session merely cemented my perception of subscription price not matching player value unless you like clothes. i wouldn't pay the money glitch is asking for their top tier subscription even for 10k teleport tokens.

i've lost pretty much all interest in these core aspects of the game.

.. and yet ..

great balls of jellisac has the game UI improved, and it wasn't even that bad to begin with. from recipes to maps to chat, every UI element demonstrates careful refinement. the way recipes and chat have improved demonstrates extreme cleverness and responsiveness on the part of the devs.

recently added collaborative elements to have been a bright light to me. it was fun just to follow other miners around and, well, help them! everything transcendental radiation promised to be, cooperative mining actually is. also, the random kindness item is even closer to what transcendental radiation promised to be, but wasn't. some small but very good and very recent collaborative developments.

player creativity and social scene has improved. the synchronized diving. the dev jumping. the people dressing up like trees. the quality personalities making status updates between tests. i've done some portraits of people's avatars and had a random person ask me to draw theirs. all of this is fun, engaging, social, creative stuff that holds the attention for a long time.

the art keeps getting better. okay, Bortola is rather boring, but it comes after the amazing work on Alakol, Tower, Mirch and Heights. the clothes keep getting better, and the hat + hair combinations are a great improvement. i'm not partial to the *look* of the frog but overall the game has never looked better.

.. anyway ..

despite great potential that engendered great enthusiasm from me, the projects and quest have been so boring for so long with so few exceptions that i've largely given up hope on them ever appealing to me. i see them as grind fests for those who enjoy grinding, and that's about it. sure projects could be improved but their foundation doesn't inspire much hope.

it feels like the game holds interest for me *despite* the major gameplay elements. the ad hoc, game unsupported creativity. the little collaborative mechanisms they struggle to take root in the seams of the game - like teleport buddies, barnacle parties, cooperative mining. i'm hoping, desperately, the group housing enhances both collaborative gameplay and .. well .. just hanging out being creative and social.

it is almost like everything about the game is awesome, except for the game itself. which is increasingly awful.

ok, shouldn't end on a negative. everything else *is* awesome, after all.

Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Striatic-hmm interesting thoughts.
    I myself had a lousy test between crashes and not having enough time between RL "quests". I was getting a little tired also of the "click here and voila" type of options the game has to offer. However, I enjoy trying to complete the quests to get the badges. I love the graphics and visual style of the game (especially Alakol). I've gotten attached to my little avatar and she would probably be sad if I abandoned her. But, most of all, I LOVE the community. It's a great place to come chat even if I am not really doing anything in game. I will definitely give it some more time-I already bought a low level subscription. Plus, I am only level 21 so there has to be more right?
    Posted 18 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (sorry for the double post. glitchy connection right now.)
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have not had a similar experience but I certainly can see it. I "grind" through a project when I feel like it, but most of the rest of my time is spent on little side projects (like mapping the best "hidden" location). I am excited about the potential of new elements and the like. But I have slight concern that when I max out the current skills, new skills will do little to entertain me. However, things like group lodges and the hints of construction make me excited.

    It's a casual sandbox game. We've been plowing through it in bits and pieces, jumping on each test and gobbling it up... because we can't play all of the time. The personal creativity will probably just expand when we have both more time and less pressure. And Tint Speck seems very keen and adding elements that help independent projects (like making it so that notes don't degrade).

    I think the bug question I have (for everyone) is what LARGE things would you like to see added to help foster extended game play. Not just new clothes or food or tweaks to current systems. What would make it MORE fun to express creativity?
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • sorry, but there really isn't more beyond level 20 or so.

    levels don't matter much, really. at least not past a certain early stage where they unlock some quests when attained.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • in terms of large things .. well .. more creative decision making [beyond simple votes even] about what goes where in the game world and whose it will be and what it will be.

    that and group halls that encourage a group style of play with group resources and group efforts. group piggy banks, at least.

    i think the former, which might even redeem projects for me, is unlikely to happen. i've largely given up on the idea that world building in glitch will ever be compelling - instead pretty much only existing in order to buy time for the artists to create more stuff.

    i think the latter, which would be awesome, is rather likely to happen. the group stuff.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "...more creative decision making [beyond simple votes even] about what goes where in the game world and whose it will be and what it will be."

    Expand on it. That is pretty vague. In what way would you like to see it implemented and what sort of impact? Give an example. I know in the old days there was some choice making but I wasn't  there. I seemed relative cosmetic but I don't know how it used to work.
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • this isn't the topic to go into detail on that, and it has been discussed in the past.

    project input was largely cosmetic, but you could choose which vendor would go there and which shrines. players flubbed that up by shoving a cluster of duplicate vendors on adjoining streets in a corner of meadow.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've hit Level 15 and I have to admit that I feel like I'm not accomplishing as much as I used to. I stick to mining and don't do much else because I want currants for the next big thing. But as I've said before, the game is still expanding. This isn't it. There is so much more coming, and us, as beta testers, have the privilege of providing ideas for the things we'd really like to see in Glitch and helping Glitch become a better game.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • edited: for decorum.
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Very true stri

    The last few tests have been fun because I have loads of friends but the skills I learn don't really have quests now so I am making a fortune mining and selling no-no. I loved it when we could choose what was on a street because it mattered to me what vendor was there. Now I know that whether 50 glitches work or 10 work, whether I am among them or not the street will appear eventually and it will look exactly the same.

    I would really like a lot less machine work and more creativity, like those home projects you mentioned or the ability to upgrade a street. Projects and life just feel like grinding since I now have a home and waaaay too many currants even if I bought most of friends a gnome.

    By all means regulate so you get an even spread or vendors and shrines but let us at least choose where they go in general or something.
    Posted 18 months ago by Ani Laurel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • or both. sometimes i feel like grinding. earning money. stocking up on food. checking out a project (i never have the right stuff or can return in time to use the stuff i left to go get) or buying things to give away to other players. (now i can mail small treasures!) i suck at quests but love the subway. could care less about petting pigs but love to hatch butterflies. have no desire to garden but catching fireflies is awesome. I too, am looking forward to the creative and social side of glitch more than the grind. i would hope to grind just enough to support more pig on a rail parties and my clothing habit. I am hoping for some street festivals, carnivals with games, an amusement park, dances or any organized get togethers whether they are collaborative gameplay or just hanging out. :) 
    Posted 18 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I had kind of the same reaction, where I was a bit frustrated with projects because it never seemed like I could contribute enough to them to be "worthwhile" in a way. But I've stopped (temporarily) with the projects and instead focus on skill building and resource-harvesting. And I love it. I think there are very different approaches to the game, and I'm happy to participate in all of them.
    Posted 18 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The game's intent is to be a social experiment and provide a place for people to develop their own characters, businesses, ambitions etc. It is a giant alternate world in a little box and it will be what we make of it and while I disagree that the game base is boring, I must say I agree that the community aspect is coming along quite nicely. It has been SAID that there are in fact more quests coming, most of the current quests have been more of an instructional guide to learn about game play aspects but with stuff like the mini-games, the races, tower mazes and phone apps coming up, in addition to the world constantly growing and evolving. I wouldn't give up yet. I would chalk up your boredom to a slump brought on by the fact that you have been here so long combined with the social, group and community aspects really just getting going. 

    I would like to see more quests with a questier nature, in other words a series of events which one would do in order to complete it. The tower base is one of these but was that even a quest? If not maybe it ought to be, and if it was, why can't I remember it. It is very intricate just needs more backstory to it, the story line as you flow through it is cool.
    Posted 18 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree completely with the OP.  I like the game, but I'm bored by it.  The social aspect is nice, but the chat system is buggy.  The game itself is lovely to look at, but overwhelmingly repetitive. 

    I'd like to see more mini games, like the races, and I'd like to be able to play them more regularly.  The idea of the tower was great, the artwork was great, and the quest itself was just some walking around.  Why not throw some sort of puzzle in there?  I want to enter a secret code on the stone tablet at the end of Anrasan Glance, and be able to fish at the coast.  A crab could be in charge of things, and caught fish could negotiate with us for their freedom.  A fishing game could provide seaweed as a prize, and sushi could be a new food item.  Beach sand could be formed into castles, which could truly be designed and built by players.

    It's not hard to come up with these sorts of things, and I know that the staff has lots of ideas for them, and that some new things are in the works.  I just hope that they appear before we lose more testers to boredom.  Some have already stopped playing, and others are saying that they won't be continuing after the reset because they've seen it all before. 
    Posted 18 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Interesting thread. Funnily, I can see your points, stri, in one way, kind of. Like I see where you're coming from. On the other hand...I admit that even at a high level and stuff I am completely still loving every minute, whether grinding away on projects or making money or whatever. Just appeals to me in so many ways...the art, the questing (even though they can be similar), the animals and farming, the social aspects. I love me the Glitch ;)
    Posted 18 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is exactly why I have been such a big voice speaking out for more quests.  But quantity is not enough, quality is more important.  More quests, but quests that are fun.  Maybe they could even implement quests that multiple players work on together.  Maybe they could set up treasure hunt quests with little prizes.  I think the towers was a step in the right direction, but I did think the towers was too easy and quick to finish.  Also I kept seeing the answers to where the keys were in global chat, I know I should have closed out of it but when I got high enough level to do the tower quest I already knew what to do.

    Questing could be great ways to keep players interacting with the game in new ways.  Maybe there could be strands of quests that are a little more complicated, but once the person is finished they open up a new aspect of the game.  For instance: a quest about a treasure hunt that has the players exploring many different areas, and at the end the treasure could be a key to a land that only those who have completed the quest could get into.

    Another problem I see with the game was already mentioned, but that as you level there are no benefits versus being a lower level.  There need to be more privileges as a higher level that makes people excited to level up.  I think an answer to a lot of the complaints I have seen in this thread could be through very creative questing
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't see how anyone at this point could decide they have seen it all when every test there is a plethora of new areas, features and polish. And at the risk of being repetitive, a community of people who have mostly just barely begun to develop the potentiality of their characters, Businesses, Group Halls, and homes. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Don't be bored, be creative!  When you get bored or tired of the same old thing and you have done all of the quests and solved the Tower and been to all of the locations then you need to take the next step.  Invent a game to play, design your own group project and find people to do it with you, find some noobs and help orient them.  Herd pigs.  You are limited mostly by lack of imagination and you need to exercise that while Tiny Speck invents new challenges.  You wouldn't want this to be too easy would you?  Well, toughen up!
    Posted 18 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Brib Annie, I agree, and I've come up with my own things to do, as have striatic and Lord Bacon-o, but let's face it: people come to a game expecting to play a game, and when the game ends, they move on to the next game.  This game doesn't have a formal ending -- there's no "You Win!" screen -- but there is certainly a fizzling out, and if Glitch is to be a success, it has to captivate a wider audience.  Not everyone is as focused on the social aspect of the game as the FS players tend to be.  Another thing to consider is that a small number of testers have been playing since February of last year, and many more have played through one or more resets, so we have literally played the entire game two or more times. 
    Posted 18 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Don't be bored, be creative!"

    uh .. i have been?

    "Invent a game to play, "

    i've done this multiple times. including one in the general forum less than a day ago.

    "design your own group project and find people to do it with you"

    i've done this.

    "find some noobs and help orient them."

    i've done plenty of this.

    "You are limited mostly by lack of imagination and you need to exercise that while Tiny Speck invents new challenges.  You wouldn't want this to be too easy would you?  Well, toughen up!"

    oh piss off. i'm plenty tough and i've done every single thing you describe except the pig herding.

    guess what? just because i'm eventually able to entertain myself and others isn't an excuse for projects to be tediously sucky, totally uncreative grind fests that serve primarily as a brake to give artists and level builders more time .. rather than as something primarily designed to be enjoyable for players. sorry.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm really enjoying the skills tree and the fact that it can be learned outside of the world. It's fun to play the game both casually and in between visits in world. 

    I think the writing has only gotten better. In fact, it's cracked me up a few times for being decidedly laugh-out-loud goofy. I think that's a plus to be able to pull off that off-kilter humor and just kind of have fun with the art form. 

    Really excited to see what comes next.
    Posted 18 months ago by Duke Caralho Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stri - I wish that you could see the difference between this game and FS. In FS the only things there to do really were to dig things, zap things, harvest things (with no accompanying amusing sayings) Level (and they took our fireworks display for getting to the top) and Breed Fauna. It did have some goals (read quests) but only a few for each area and there were only 4 areas other than special Holiday spheres and a spa, and yet, we had such a good time in there because of the community and events planned by the players.  

    ETA: The spheres, we did have the spheres and they were one of my favorite aspects. It was an area that you literally built yourself out of a multitude of blocks, I think perhaps something along these lines is what you and others are suggesting is missing from the mix ? 
    Posted 18 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stri, I guess I am having a hard time figuring out the point of this thread. Folks have expressed their feeling and how they are handling it. And you make it about yourself. It is possible what they are saying is not for you but for everyone.  You say you find the game tedious but that this thread isn't the place to discuss how to fix the flaws you see.

    Is the point just to complain?

    I'm unclear what you are looking for.
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What about series quests? Quests where, when you complete it, you obtain an item which comes with another quest. And then lather, rinse, repeat, until there's a final quest where something special or awesome happens, ahaha.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Duke Caralho - yes the writing has improved. i forgot to mention that.

    @Divine~ - FS also failed, ultimately. Glitch will have to be significantly more compelling than FS in order to prosper.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Stri - that's the point I was trying to make IT IS!

    ETA: That one of primary reasons that FS met it's doom was because the platform it was built on simply did not allow for such dramatic expansion. It tooks months of programming to add something with the complexity of Ix. We build more streets than that in Glitch everyday the game is open. 

    I wonder if it would be possible to put an even more simplified version of some of the design tools that Tiny Speck has created for game development into the players hands, so that they could create their own areas, doesn't add any logistical benefit to the game and I would pay for them. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  •  This is an interesting thread and I'm going to reply to some of the important points, but before I do: striatic, re "oh piss off" — that's out of line and inappropriate for the forums. If you re-read Brib Annie's post, I think you'll see that there was not even a hint of hostility, just a friendly "look on the bright side" vibe. So, don't do that. It's totally unnecessary.
    Posted 18 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks Stoot!
    Posted 18 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This will be short since it's late now and a lot of this will be covered by a later forum post I am working on, but: I think Glitch as it stands now would be very boring for anyone who has played for a few months (and many people, striatic included, have played for more than a year).

    We haven't really released anything to make the "elder game" interesting, haven't completed many of the ecological chains (e.g., you still can't do anything with crystals except contribute to projects, but there is a whole set of skills planned around them) and we haven't really scratched the surface of multiplayer quests (the frameworks is there since we used it for the race quests).

    It's partly a matter of production efficiency (who's available to work on what, when) but mostly a matter of priorities: if the polish isn't there and if the first week or two of play isn't fun then most people won't ever make it to the higher levels. As it stands, at long last, we are really close to having the first 20 levels or so worked out. (Some people love it, others not so much, but judging by the feedback and the stats, it is working: a MUCH higher percent of people who try Glitch now will get to level 5 or level 10 than did even a few months ago.)

    Lately a huge amount of effort has gone into things like the billing system, customer support tools, automating server deployment and load balancing, analysis tools for stats we're collecting and blah blah (things which players don't see). But, thanks to recent hiring we've also been adding new stuff to the game at a faster rate. This will continue to increase.

    We've only got enough game right now for about 15-20 levels and we need to have 30+ at launch (AND the ability to add stuff even faster than we have been now). So: it will get better. In the meantime, I fully expect some testers to get bored and even move on completely. But, I bet that six months from now, or a year (when the game will really be good) some of them will come back. Because there really isn't anything else like it.
    Posted 18 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks a lot stoot! So glad to know you have so much more up your collective sleeves. 
    Posted 18 months ago by JW Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Because there really isn't anything else like it.

    This should be the running header from now on. It's true.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glum said, "-- but there is certainly a fizzling out, and if Glitch is to be a success, it has to captivate a wider audience."  This is true and that's why I stress being imaginative.  I have never been very social.  It's not that I don't want to be, I just never really understood how to.  I grew up with no sibs and no relatives except for those hundreds of miles away.  Not many other kids to play with.  So, I did have to strain my imagination.  It got a good workout at times.

    I was an early Beta tester at Faunasphere.  I played that game for just under two years and then it closed.  I did all of the Goals except for one or two breeding Goals.  I visited all of the Worlds numerous times.  I redid repeatable Goals, etc.  So, I know how a game can seem to stagnate after many weeks or months of play.  There are still many things to do when you've "done it all", you just need to discover those things.  When I run out of ideas, I stop playing for a bit and do other things.  This is hard when the game is only Open for a day or two but I do it anyway.  I get ideas and when I come back I have things to do while I wait for new content.  Yes, I really do get bored at times, we all do, but I am not giving in to it.
    Posted 18 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One of the major highlights of the game for me, are the gorgeous graphics and the contrasts between different areas. If you compare this game to a world like Second Life, you see a few similarities, in that there is a 'free form' style of play available to those who want it (although in SL there are no other options and this is prettty much enforced). Unfortunately this game does not have the creative aspect side accompanying it, which has been mentioned a few times on this thread. In Second Life, the ability to upload user created content is a main part of the world, so much so that it has created it's own economy, in my opinion a similar amount of creative input would be very welcome in Glitch, how that would appear to users though, I'm not sure. 

    As much as Second Life has some amazing and high level user content, it is also packed full of ugly creations by people with little talent and no imagination at all, to see that happen here would be terrible, so I don't personally feel that is an option, although maybe the votes that we have, could, as already suggested, be used to make more aesthetic decisions ones that affect and shape our environment. 

    Perhaps in future, quests could be rewarded by giving out items, not just xp points etc which are all very nice but not terribly exciting. I know I, for one, would have far more interest in gaining items that I can use to enhance my home or my avatar - it would provide a far more interesting target to aim for and, as each 'reward' would be unique to the quest, would stop the boredom of repetitive tasks with no visible end result, it would also give players the ability to make themselves and their enviroments, more personalised and unique to themselves. 

    With the recent release of new Alakol housing, I did stop to wonder exactly was happening there. When compared to the superior designs at Groddle Meadow for instance, it seems as though the time spent designing unique and unusual properties had been pushed aside for a quicker and easier solution. As much as I was guilty of rushing out to buy one of the larger houses, it was a decision made on space rather than looks and I already miss the cheeriness of my old Meadow home. I just hope this isn't the start of generic batches of graphics, brought out because of the high demand and the fast turnaround time. Glitch was built on graphics that have been well thought out and carefully designed. I'd hate to see that change. 

    In all, Glitch has a clever and unique base to build an amazing user experience on and as long as they don't get in that rut of just repeating the same content over and over and growing old and tired. It is the unique twisted humour and often unusual graphics that give the game it's individuality and to lose that would be a very bad mistake. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm looking forward to the group stuff and more quests that we can't complete on our own. I also want to be a bit more creative. 

    I got bored with the mining, so I'm currently going through the cookery stuff. I enjoy leaving meals around for others to find (although it's not helping my current balance! - Bothered... ;-) ). I'd love a mining/cooking combo quest - I found mining sucked my energy really fast and getting someone who enjoyed the cooking stuff to tag along might be good if we could think of a good team reward! 

    Thanks Stoot for the reply, it confirms that the developers are aware of the need for more to come. I can totally understand that initially you have to focus on the newbie stuff, because more of the players will be new. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Martian Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with you Stoot "there really isn't anything else like it." You have captured a unique visual design in the gaming market! The psychology of this game is brilliant! You have done your homework mate maybe that why i'm a  glitchaddict. Completely looking forward to whats coming next as I know you and your team wont let us down, we are just giving you feed back as you asked from us in the beginning. Well done to all the users for sharing their inner thoughts good and bad.

    +1 Morticia
    Posted 18 months ago by Gomez Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The only interesting things in game seems to be jumping over the balcony of my house. And gardening. and chatting. I seem to spend more time chatting, cooking, and doing small menial tasks than actually using any of my creative cells crawling around the back of my head. And they want to be used, big time. I loved FS because when you can't think of anything to do, you can redecorate or create a mule and decorate. Which I did really often. And would it hurt to have something to actually SPEND the currants on besides subway tix, mail, and houses? I want to have wooden floors with black and white decor. If they let us customise our houses, with elements of other houses, at a cost of currants, I'm sure I'll find the motivation to actually use my pick.
    PS: Elements means decor. I suggest that cupboard space, patches, gardens and the basic structures stay the same, only you could use wall papers and furniture from other houses, like say the Pac-man chairs from the Meadow in Shimla.
    Posted 18 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Brib Annie: being creative and coming up with your own games is fine for some people, but other people aren't as creative.  I am a science type, I always have been.  I recently took a Film Studies class and realized how unartistic I truly am.  Like you said about being social, I just can't help it.  I'm a stick-to-the-facts take everything for what it is type girl.  Coming up with my own way to play is just not on my agenda.  The reason I started playing Glitch in the first place is because someone else creative and artistic created an awesome game that is beautiful and has so much creativity in it already.  I don't agree that you should leave it up to the players to create their own fun or use their imagination to have fun.  My imagination sucks, that's why I like this game in the first place.  Its way better than anything my imagination could come up with.  By saying that players want more stimulation they mean from the game itself, not from their own minds.

    @stoot: Thanks for explaining.  It's always easy to forget how much work goes into even the smallest things in this game.  I'm sure I, as well as others, have sounded like whiny brats.  But really, you guys are doing a great job, and I can't wait to hear more about the new content for higher levels and changes to be made.
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks, stoot, for letting us know where things are at.

    I had a ridiculous long post last night that pretty much summed up what striatic opened with, went to post it and the server wasn't there.  Rather than recreate another very long post, I'll just emphasize that the game after a certain level is just a mash.  The player created stuff is awesome, but from a player standpoint, what I see is more low level tweaks that make the game more of a grind and less big stuff that captivates.  I want big stuff from the game!

    Looking forward to changes beyond level 20. ;-)
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One thing I've mentioned before that I'd like to see in the game is a mechanism for players to make their own quests. Yes, they do that already now, but it's too easy for an unsuspecting person to pick up a quest item and walk off with it, thus ruining the quest. 

    It would be nice if there was a way for players to script a quest with its own special items and dialogue for specific street spirits. The quest admin could specify certain actions that would have to be completed (such as talk to street spirit 1 and then find item A, then use the item to cook dish B, bring it to street spirit 2, get an award if completed in under 5 minutes) The player quests would run for a limited time (like a 24 hour period) so that the items don't litter the world forever. Any players that play the quest could then rate it. Perhaps the most highly rated quests could be added to the game more permanently.
    Posted 18 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am looking forward to Dodge Pig.  Until then, I will dodge my own pig.

    @Laurali - You are probably more creative than you know.  Just the choices you making in Game take creativity.  Also your reactions to things you encounter like projects and pig fountains exhibit some creativity.  But, don't worry, I am sure that many things are planned and each test seems to include something new.  We had new content in this last test though not many new things to do just new locations mostly and some wardrobe tweaks.  Some things are just simple but can still keep you busy.  Try finding the Devs without looking at your friends list.  How many can you find?  When you find one can you wake him/her?  My unofficial Quest is to find Devs and kiss them - LOL!  How simple is that?  It does keep me amused though.  Another simple thing is to just walkabout and find new locations.  Some of these are housing developments.  I found several new developments this last test as I had not looked for them in the previous test.  I found one apartment for rent with 6 gnomes standing out in front of it.  If I hadn't been exploring I would have missed it.  Most people have not seen it.  Yes, these are very simple things and maybe none but me find it fun but it is something to do and you never know what you will find.  There are other things too.  I suspect that eventually we will have more creative options such as decorating our homes.  I could do that for hours.
    Gnomes:  www.flickr.com/photos/bribl...
    Posted 18 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Its great that stoot responded to this. I think KC said what I am thinking. I would love to have a bit of customizing/decorating at my house. Things like wallpaper, posters, shelves, tables, chairs, rugs, lamps (turn on/off option), etc. As said in another post many of us spend time at our houses so it seems natural to personalize them. That is one of the things that kept FS from getting boring, that and breeding. Now please understand I do NOT want this game to be FS. It is totally different yet still connects because of its visual style and community. The FS wounds are still a bit raw so I believe comparisons are still natural. Breeding is not possible until pets arrive and even then I just don't believe it will really work in this game. I appreciate that there is a bit of down time in exploring new game elements because the devs have to work on non-game elements to get the game open. THAT is way more important right now. SO I will muddle on through and do some things I haven't yet. There are some cooking quests to do and I haven't even touched the powders. There is a lot still undone for me but the game has a lot of "click here" type of things. I need more decision-making things and more surprises.
    Posted 18 months ago by Holly Waterfall Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "It's partly a matter of production efficiency (who's available to work on what, when) but mostly a matter of priorities: if the polish isn't there and if the first week or two of play isn't fun then most people won't ever make it to the higher levels..... Lately a huge amount of effort has gone into things like the billing system, customer support tools, automating server deployment and load balancing, analysis tools for stats we're collecting and blah blah (things which players don't see)." - stoot

    This what I wanted to say last night. But, as a not-dev I would have been making large assumptions. Glad it was said. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with a lot of what striatic says, although my initial emotional reaction was "how dare you be mean to my Glitch", with lots of wishing for a nearby striatic arm to punch.  While it's true that I also die inside a bit when I think about starting over, I see so many areas where it's obvious that the dev team just needs more time to bring out the nascent fabulousness.  So I can't give up because I really want to see where it's all going, I just don't know yet what kind of playing I am going to do.

    I am really interested in hearing a lot more from advanced players about what their strategies were, even if they are all stalled out right now, and just hanging out quietly by the punch bowl.  Glitch looks to me like it has many trajectories to get beyond level 20 but I don't know that for sure--is there a way to categorize different styles of game play? I don't see any of this on the wiki or in the strategy group, so I am left with a paranoid feeling that there is a super secret top players group that all talk with their own language about the game...or are they just master grinders?  I seem to remember another thread in which a leaderboard player talked a bit about his/her strategy, but I think it was accompanied by the phrase "jealous morons", or maybe it was "jealous fools", so it didn't really stick with me--I mean except for that bit.

    I am also curious what quests repeat players have just totally blown off after each reset--I have several.  Maybe those are quests that could stand some tweaking.
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am a woman of few words...The devs are very brave to have a dream.. They allow free expression at their expense.             In this thread I see a real battle of the mind...even in the peaceful world of Glitch there exists an inner turmoil.
    Posted 18 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nanookie, I dont consider myself a top player, although I am at level 46 right now and 1 skill away from the complete skill tree.  If there is a top secret group towards leveling up, I don't know about it.

    Gleaning hints from various others, though, I started this beta by going down the mining tree, grinding away to get rocks/gems to donate to shrines to level up.  When I could afford a house, I got one and filled it with animals and plants to grind away at those to level up.  Then I started down the cooking/cocktail craft to help support my mining/donate/level up trip and the projects.  Once you get so far and have skills to do a lot, that's when the grind gets old and projects get annoying and you're left with hanging out, helping others, and figuring out where the seams of the game are to play in.  I started collecting achievements until I realized I'd burn out on those when we launch. :/

    Leveling up has nice payouts - easy enough through constant donations, sno cones, butterfly singing with gurly drinks, and emblem considering.  It also has a high burn-out factor since it's a grind.

    Donations and skill learning times are different since we started beta, so it'd be interesting to see what happens at launch with that strategy.  Huge donations with EHSP now can backfire and yield you only 60xp (at my level) if you go over the shrine cap (and get the warning dialogue).  Longer learning times mean you need to choose your speciality carefully, going deep rather than broad.  This is touted a s a good thing until you realize that it means you'll be stuck grinding incessantly on the same tasks rather than switch off mining for cooking for a while until you get bored of that.  In fact, mining/refining is tedious until you get to a high enough skill level that tools are more efficient and until you get to a high enough level that your tank holds more energy to get through it.

    I've recently tried doing the barnacle/firefly/peat/earth/loam stuff  for bricks/blocks (because projects need it and I've done all that the least).  That is truly unrewarding (especially fuel making), unless you just sell the raw stuff for moar currants.  It drains the most energy of anything you do (unless you just stay on no-no), takes the longest to collect everything needed, and has a minimal payout unless you watch New Streets to know when to sell high or travel far for use in projects.  I can wander for an hour trying to get loam, only to have enough for 5 bricks/blocks.  the same hour can net enough goodies to cook 16 slots of awesome pot meals.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zee, how can you not consider yourself a power Glitch with those kinds of stats?  It's not an ego thing, it's a stats thing.   But your description of your experience is exactly what I want to read about, so thank you for that!  It is not enough to say, "I have mastered this game, I am at the end (again) and I am really bored"...I want to know how you and others got there because even lower level players (and lazy ones like me) want to get an overall sense of it and how many ways and kinds of ways there are to go.
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I also find myself going through repeating cycles of excitement, adjustment, contentment and ultimately boredom with each new 'feature' and test window.  This last test, the cycle was related to the new Alakol housing:

    Excitement - "Selling the sizzle, not the steak."
    This is when I found that the new Alakol homes would be available, and they looked sweet.  First batch, I didn't get one.  This built anticipation and I HAD to get one once the next batch went up for sale.  I had something new within the structure of the game to work for.

    Adjustment - "Now...about that steak."
    Saved up my money, planned my moving strategy and waited.  Luckily, the wait was tantalizing, but not too long and I was able to get one of the 50K big boys.  Moved my stuff, settled in with some gardening, nude sunbathing on the third floor, and had over some delightful company to share the experience with. 

    Contentment - "Pretty good steak.  But is that more sizzling I hear?"
    This is where balancing on the second floor railing started.  Between balancing on the railing of my home with a friend, and 50 people balancing in various states of undress at the model home during the end of test party, I got a solid 2-3 hours of fun out of this activity.  Along the same lines, this is where other general creativity kicks in.  striatic has shared many of his activities/games, as have others with their business attempts.  However, you can only be creative with what the game gives you for so long.  The railing could really be a cry for help...

    Boredom - "Boy, I haven't had a steak in a really long time...and that's not sizzling."
    I'm not quite back at boredom, yet.  Thankfully. 

    I guess my point is that *change* is the key to stringing me along and cycling me back to the Excitement stage again.  And that change can be something as simple as a new housing development (pardon my ignorance in calling the engineering behind this 'simple', but allow the argument), or something as ridiculous as a deck railing.  

    The delta doesn't have to be great, but there does need to be continuous delta.
    Posted 18 months ago by Joe Blow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for that summary, stoot!

    It is encouraging to know that the game is currently built out to about level 15-20. A few tests back I was talking to en and a few others about xp and decided to see how easy it would be to crack into the top 10 on the leaderboards. Using a handful of strategies to try out, I figured out what was the most efficient and cost effective way to go on a pure xp bender. Within 2 test sessions, I had made it to 9th place. Another session after that and I was in 5th place! I have since dropped down a bit, since I didn't continue gaining xp the very last test. The bottom line is, beyond the level needed to qualify for some of the quests (12 maybe? I don't recall), leveling becomes a moot point. The only value in it is having a large energy store to be able to do more stuff before having to eat again. However, the only stuff left to do is to mine rocks so you can get money so you can buy stuff to donate to gain more xp. Totally self serving and not "fun" after a while. I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouth, but it seems like more than half of the highest level players are currently tired of the grind of leveling. We got there and found it a fruitless journey.

    Indeed, since the changes to teleportation, I am now kicking myself for leveling up so much. 818 energy to teleport home?!?! It certainly gives a balance to the game and makes me less likely to power level in the future. If you look in-game at your level (hover your cursor over the number) it says "you are level ___ of 40!". I think level 40 is probably the balance point currently.

    All that (sorry for the length!) being said, I have some new goals for the coming tests. I think it is fantastic that the game works in such a way that players can kind of design new things within the confines of the game system. For example, the Bank idea en and clare started is very interesting to me. I'm also working on a food index that will hopefully show which food item is the most efficient to make from scratch and eat for energy vs buy and then eat. I have an idea of what is the most cost effective thing in the game, but I want some numbers to prove it.
    Posted 18 months ago by Shwan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nanookie, I guess I don't consider myself a power player since I view en and clare and Shawn and a few others to have a much better grasp on leveling up than I historically have had.  Some others have a better sense of finding the seams than I do, like striatic... I count on them to have that hit of excitement that Joe Blow discusses when the game fails to provide it.

    I'm a grinder, is what I am, and probably not as efficient as some some others.  Usually, I'm cash poor from spending every last currant to level (only to have teleportation bite me in the ass!).  To buy the Alakol house, I simply sold everything I had in my bags to the nearest vendor and then went homeless until the 50K house opened.  As with Joe, that was a rush until I started grinding again to get back all the tools while avoiding leveling up because of the the teleport hit.

    The teleport game mechanics actually killed the fun of learning it when I went from TPI and level 43, needing 500 energy to teleport to TPII and level 44, needing the same amount of energy to tp! Boo!  It got better at TPIII and level 45 or 6 at only 300 energy.  Can't wait to see what happens with TPIV (a day and some change away from being done) and level 46 - hoping the teleport scripts give me a little joy.

    My strategy for the next test? Doing some numbers to see which part of the skill tree I should go down when we launch so that I a) don't waste learning time on skills that end up boring me and b) I'm efficient so that the play I can do is fun. 
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, I have to say, I've never been more impressed by a developer's response- I would never expect to hear 'the game is boring right now' from the creator. Usually, Powers That Be prefer to obfuscate and gloss over problems. But you are honest with us and this is great- and your further explanation is exactly what I hoped to hear: that there is more content planned, but now is not the right time to release it.

    Very glad to hear it said out loud. :D Because I have been bored with Glitch for a while now- but it just seemed like there was no WAY we were anywhere close to the end.

    As to creativity within the game, maybe I'll make myself sound like a stick in the mud, but making up private games of jumping over people and balancing on things has zero appeal to me in an artificial environment. I don't mean to belittle all the invented games which people clearly enjoy, but for me, the pleasure in achieving goals in a game is when they are recognised by the UI- otherwise I have better things to do in real life.  I don't see Glitch as the blank canvas others do- the extra-curricular activities people cite as fun seem really pointless to me. I have a bigger blank canvas outside the game- inside, I expect to be entertained.

    If I step into a game, and the game doesn't offer me content and challenges, I'm not going to spend very much time there. I'm going to go outside for a bike ride. Or, really, do anything else that doesn't consist of confining myself within a limited virtual world only to have to come up with ways to kill time inside it. That's the game's job, not mine.

    This is why I'm so very glad to hear Stoot say 'this isn't it'.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
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