Topic

How Can I Miss You If You Won't Go Away?

Let's say you are one of those ultra-bored, high-level alpha players, languishing around the punch bowl, and you decide you are going to just leave the dance for a while.  Say you leave for three months.

How could your experience coming back to Glitch be different, i.e., better, than the re-entry experience with semi-abandoned accounts at other games?  How could Glitch keep you engaged in a less-committed way while you are gone?  How do you want your absence acknowledged or described by the game, to you or to other players who view your profile?

Do you want to come to find everything exactly as it was, or do you do want to see evidence that you left (which is usually framed as evidence of neglect, e.g., cockroaches in your house, piles of meat where pigs once were, dead crops)?   How do you want to get caught up with what has happened while you are/were away, with major events, things that happened to your friends, etc. (I am assuming here that nobody wants to review the individual update feeds for all or most of their friends list).

plz advise.

Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • I definitely wouldnt want to see degenerative changes to anything of mine if I had left, however (and though I know this is a controversial standpoint) I do wish that after a certain amount of time, we could lose things that are low on supply and high on demand. For instance, I had to wait 3 tests to buy my Alakol home because there werent any on the market, however, most of the neighborhoods in Alakol are completely abandoned because most of the users never play anymore.
    Posted 18 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What an interesting question! 
    I think it might be nice to come back to your home with a quest to go after the cobwebs and dust bunnies. To go out into the yard to discover that all of your critters were looked after by a kindly anonymous neighbor and that they are all delighted that you're home. Perhaps if your absence has been longer than a few weeks notes could be sent to people in your groups to announce your return with an invitation to send a welcome back card and a personal update.  
    Posted 18 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Zach, how do you find that to be (that Alakol homes are abandoned)?

    We just got them a couple of tests ago and I haven't seen a great outflux of players over those tests.  A quick check of the 50k homes show a ton of activity on the player's profiles from this last test.  So, it curious to me that you find these home to be "completely abandoned".  My particular block is incredibly active, although I don't hang out on my quarter block, I can see that people have come and gone from their homes to wherever else in the game - because every time I return there is some food or drink left by the neighbors on the block.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 'dead crops'


    I think if you're absent for an extended period, you should come back to find your garden an overgrown tangled mess that requires some serious hoeing to get back in order. A hatchet if you let it get really out of order...
    Posted 18 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is an interesting question which requires a balance.  There are really two types of players that take a leave of absence from the game...there are those that choose to walk away for a while, and others that can't play due to circumstances in their RL.  The biggest challenge is that there is no way for the game system to know which one the player is, and if they will return. 

    I love Riverwalker's option to this...I think it welcomes the player back to where they left off in the game.  What a nice way to come back, especially if the RL situation was something tragic (hospital stay, death in the family, divorce, etc.).  It would really encourage people to come back after a long absence vice dreading what they might find that happened to their account. 

    Zachariah, I understand there has to be some ingame balancing for the economy, especially since there is a limit to the housing currently.  However, that aspect of the play and the options thrown out to sell someone's house (and give them currants), etc. has always concerned me. I don't know what the right answer is though either.  I appreciate that they seem to be opening more and more and more housing pretty regularly to help with that issue. 
    Posted 18 months ago by b3achy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Zachariah, dear fellow Glitcher... Please do not jump to conclusions. What you have seen in your hood does not apply to the vast world of Glitch in general.   Unlike Miss Havisham's house in "Great Expectations,"   cobwebs will never grow in Glitch houses, especially  the two level Bauhaus white beauties in Alakol.
    Posted 18 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well whoever it doesnt concern shouldn't worry then, amirite? I posted an opinion of mine through what I've seen browsing neighborhoods throughout this last test. I don't think I'm jumping to conclusions, because even theoretically, the scenario could happen, and is not actually in motion. 
     
    I didnt mean to take attention away from Nanookie's first question, so instead I'll just rephrase my statement with less nooks & crannies. 

    **In a perfect world, I would not want to see degenerative things happening, because some people simply do not have the time or resources to become regular players. However, I would like to see an implemented system of measured realty sustenance, because even though new homes are added to the servers in beta, it seems as though outside of Beta, more expensive homes will be limited (As they cant have an unlimited number of streets dedicated to housing) and when such occurs, I hope that there is a fair & established system reguarding the issue of players with a limited resource who are absent for extended periods. :)
    Posted 18 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In another MMO I currently play, it has a 'pause' feature. The minimum length is 3 days and the maximum is 90. At 30, 60, 75 and 90 days the game generates an e-mail reminding you that your character is paused and how much time is remaining. You can return anytime an re-pause to start the cycle over. After 90 days your character slowly degrades until it dies... the it gets warehoused for recovery on a server for another 6 months. My status during this period simply reads 'Trav has been on holiday for 47 days'.

    On the 'paid' side of that same game, pausing for greater than 30 days can also involve the billing department. I went through a period of way-too-busy-to-see-straight and was able to have them suspend the account for a minimum of 2 months, maximum of 6, after which the account is stored on a server for another year+. My status during this period reads 'Trav have been paused for 116 days'.

    In both cases, the freeze meant you couldn't be robbed, your items were removed from the market and unavailable for sale, times on skills were paused, and nothing decayed. With a 'vacation' pause, it was a button click to get things going again. With a billing suspension, you get frozen out of the 'play' and communication portions of the game, but still have access to the billing/accounts. It would take 12-24 hours for your account to unfreeze after payment processed, depending on if the account had been mothballed.
    Currently, my account there is in 'mothball' status - I'm waiting on a new expansion.

    The system is beautiful, but application to Glitch is problematic. That other game doesn't have and doesn't want an active 'neighborhood culture', Glitch does. Parts of it do at least.

    The live player / paused player question is going to surround 'what to do about the houses'. For that, I don't have much of an answer. It's easy enough to capture all of the details of the account and store it, and the argument we'll hear of 'but I liked my house / address / location' seems a bit weak when you factor in an extended timeline of not logging, even to check in, for 90+ days. 

    If all of the 'stuff' and the cash was the same as when you left, and you've been provided with what you paid for a residence currant wise... it shouldn't be at all cumbersome to purchase another house and settle back in. It sure seems a lot less complicated than creating a complicated degradation routine, let alone all of the animations and graphics to go with it.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think aspects of the game should be implemented that are multi-faceted and multi-dimensional. For example, I've thought many times of Glitches being able to have "careers," much like they do in Sims 3, and that they can choose to have one or not but if they keep up with it they get rewarded with currants, XP, maybe mood (or maybe it lowers mood), promotions, etc. at the cost of lowering energy and utilizing time... or go to school to earn varied "degrees" in Glitch-related subjects. Imagine earning a Master's in Giant Theology! Haha. Then again, I understand this isn't a real-life sim so these are just ideas.

    I've also thought about people having "traits" in the game that people develop that give them certain bonuses. Then again, skills pretty much take care of this... so... yeah...

    But what about more combined skill abilities? I know that people with a certain level of Penpersonship and Teleportation can make Tele scripts. What if there were a "Charisma" skill that, on it's own, gave you the ability to improve your own mood and the mood of other Glitches by simply talking to them? And what if that skill, combined with Bureaucratic Arts on some level, opened up the ability to be "Mayor" of a certain part of the Glitch world, or something? Again, I know that some skills already combine excellently but I'm just asking for more of that, haha.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @zachariah  You said

    I don't think I'm jumping to conclusions, because even theoretically, the scenario could happen,

    Where are you getting the information that the scenario is going to happen? Or even what the probability is that it will happen?  Or are you simply saying  "This is a scary scenario and we need to hear what the solution is going to be"

    Tiny Speck staff have said that they don't try to solve every problem before it happens. If something is very low probability, then why should they use up resources solving a problem that has not yet happened?

    and you also said

    because even though new homes are added to the servers in beta, it seems as though outside of Beta, more expensive homes will be limited

    Where did you get the information that the more expensive homes will be limited?  I haven't seen anything from staff that would indicate this, but perhaps I missed the statement. 
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I expect my stuff to stay exactly how it is, when I leave a game for whatever reason. 
    Crops dying makes me frowny, and pigs turning into chops doesn't amuse me.  I think all games should accept that people have real life to deal with, as well as game play. 
    I don't usually leave a game due to boredom. I usually leave because it sells out, closes down, or starts loosing the plot and doing stupid things. 

    Things on timers (crops) really irritated me in games like Farmville.  If I plant something in a game, I can't sit around for 12 hours exactly or whatever exact time. Work or life often means I'm unable to drop everything and run to the computer just to click on x number of crops. Wasting money planting stuff that just withers and dies doesn't make for a pleasant user experience. 
    Catching up with users after leaving for a time is an awkward one. Especially with name changes. I guess all we can do is hope that if we have to go, someone will tell us any news when we get back. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Windborn

    This isnt hard to conclude with common sense...

    "I don't think I'm jumping to conclusions, because even theoretically, the scenario could happen,"

            - People don't play games forever, eventually they will quit playing.

    "
    because even though new homes are added to the servers in beta, it seems as though outside of Beta, more expensive homes will be limited "

            - Homes are set on streets, streets are set on blocks, blocks are limited. Glitch is in beta right now, so you would expect once the game goes live it picks up plenty more players. Well, Tinyspeck isnt going to make an infinite number of streets to accomodate for housing (I would assume -- and I would assume anyone else would assume that also) thus making housing limited.

    so, obviously, the above hasnt been written in any documents by tinyspeck -- and I'm sorry if this comes off as rude its just your post was only to debunk something I had said rather than responding to the OP herself
    Posted 18 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, well ANYWAY.... ;-)

    I am of two minds on signs of neglect.  I like the idea of coming back after an absence and having clean up stuff to do.  I actually really enjoyed stomping on cockroaches in my house in Animal Crossing.  I would enjoy having to clear cobwebs in my house and straighten up my yard, and frankly I wouldn't really be eaten up with remorse about finding any "leftovers" of forgotten animals either.

    What I would not like is nagging reminders from the game that I am not playing, or guilt trips about how long I have been gone when I get back.  

    I am sure I am in a minority on this, but I think having the option to put your game in suspended animation should be for subscribers.  I also think there should be an option for free players too--they should be allowed to appoint other players as house-sitters, who could visit their home with a set frequency in order keep any decay mode from switching on--this could actually be a viable business for a player. At some point I am guessing we will be able to lock down belongings in our houses, which would make any worries about theft unnecessary.

    It would also be cool if my initial view of my Home or Profile page, after a long absence, would have some kind of news for me about what happened while I was gone--so maybe for the group of buddies I set as my closest, there would be links to some kind of summary of their activity.   I wish people could mark update postings as journal entries to differentiate them from the conversational entries..so they could mark special occasions--then those would go into a summary of their activity.  

    Game news could be included in that Welcome Back Home page.  If at some point someone creates a newspaper in the game for subscription, maybe back issues of that could be archived for me (up to a cut off date).

    Anyway, those are a few of the kinds of things I was thinking about--

    ETA: Travinara, meant to mention that I like the system you described, but I would want it to be a bit warmer, Glitchier, so if you are gone for a certain number of days, you are "on a walkabout" vs. just being gone 64 days.  Nothing too twee though, mind you, it would need to somehow be less of an account status notification, and more like a voluble neighbor giving you the deets on what has been happening in your absence.
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand what you're driving at Nanookie. I once asked the billing people at that other place why the status wasn't more 'in theme' and listed a number, they told me players asked for it early because it gave them an idea if it was a weekend-y pause and they'd been gone a few days/might be back soon or a multi-month hiatus and to just count them out for a while. Glitch is going to need some sort of pause or vacation feature - it has a real time metric on many things and people should be able to 'stop the clock' as it were. 

    The US has the lowest national average of paid leave of any industrialized nation. Even with our pathetic 10-14 day entitlement, and 0 guaranteed public holidays (yes, they can fire you for not working for regular hourly wages on Christmas folks! Most places will at least pay overtime wages but they aren't required to.) and that still comes out to better than 40 Glitch Days. We already know our pigs turn into piles of meat much faster than 40 Glitch days, heaven forbid one of our UK or Canadian members spends all 20 days of their annual leave in a row and doesn't want to spend it reporting back to a video game... and have mercy when one of our French players takes all 30 of theirs!

    I think the idea of neighbors tending other neighbors home / animals is cute, and might add some game play options - but I also think it will add a whole lot of anxiety and stress. If I'm recovering in the hospital, I don't want to have to worry about finding someone to take care of my game things while I recover... I'm pretty focused on finding someone to take care of my RL pets, plants and kid. When it comes to my leisure activities, I expect to be able to either take no action at all, or have the action to temporarily suspend my account be the biggest Easy Button in the game. I actually *have* been in the position of asking a nurse to log into a game account to pause it.

    I don't like having to source someone to do the work, and I'll worry even more about them doing it on a daily basis. I don't like the feeling that I could be asked to stop by the exact same point in the world each and every day, 3-4 times a day, every day for who knows... one or two days 'off' shouldn't require maintenance, but if the world were live 24/7 at this point you wouldn't be able to stretch it much further without coming back to dead pigs (and withered crops - before you complain it already exists in Glitch, it's just an extremely gentle mechanic that happens so rarely people tend not to notice it).

    @Zachariah - above you saidWell, Tinyspeck isnt going to make an infinite number of streets to accomodate for housing (I would assume -- and I would assume anyone else would assume that also) thus making housing limited.

    Actually, they pay attention to what housing is 'in demand' and 'out', and add new housing streets are accordingly. New housing blocks are introduced in proportion to the expanding global size, and new housing streets are added to the blocks when the blocks become full. Marakesh Meadow and Marlypole Mount are excellent examples of the scale in practice. They didn't start out at 48 housing streets each - they have expanded to it over time. 

    The only limit on that expansion is how far down the developers are willing to shrink the entry sign post graphic. Visually, that's ~120 streets per block before the text size is unmanageable... with an average of 12 houses on a street  - and there's nothing to say lateral streets won't eventually be added to the sides of a given street but not show in the main post. Personally I think the capacity for a single housing block to contain over 1000 houses is more than sufficient, no matter how popular the neighborhood. Those who want to live in that specific neighborhood can make it their main pursuit to beg, bribe, or wait for a house to become available at that point. 

    You made an unfair, sweeping assumption about what the TS team can and will do. The fact of it is, they put thought into scale. They can and DO keep an eye on it and will do so in the future. We've never been given a reason to think otherwise - unless you count 'having to wait for new' as limited versus 'unlimited'.
    My friend Ming gets really pissy when people start assuming. 

    You also said:  most of the neighborhoods in Alakol are completely abandoned because most of the users never play anymore.

    Point in fact - this is untrue. You don't *see* the people online and playing, therefore you assumed they no longer play. Fact: anyone who has not played for greater than three weeks has 0 % probability of owning an Alakol home - they didn't exist 3 weeks ago. Worthy of note... perhaps you have bothered a few of those neighbors and they have blocked you as a result, you might never see them or activity from them.

    "Always and never are two words you should always remember never to use." - Wendell Johnson

    You did jump to a conclusion, formed an opinion, and expressed it publicly without first understanding the situation. WindBorn was pointing out the inaccuracies in the conclusion - so that you and others are not confused as to the accuracy of the statement and become frustrated later. People will stop playing, they will take breaks - that much is freely acknowledged and 'how to handle it' is the primary point of this entire discussion.

    Yes, that scenario can and does happen. It doesn't / hasn't happened in Alakol yet. When it does, it will be handled just like it has every other time - more houses will be added. The scenario does exist in the world, in Groddle mostly and in the inexpensive houses of which there is ample supply. Currently there is no 'back end clear out' of inactive accounts we can *see*. I wouldn't expect to see one until some time well after launch - to accommodate those who have become bored with alpha and beta testing and taken a break.

    TS is is usually 2 steps ahead of us in considering these things. Not saying it's not worth discussing, because we often think of angles the development team doesn't. I am saying I look forward to hearing about and seeing whatever clever solution TS eventually comes up with. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmm, interesting. However, both yay or nay are both assumptions. We'll have to agree to disagree.

    Also, I feel like most of the responses to my previous comments aren't actually responses to what I was actually saying. So I stand by my original statement, as that is what I would like to see after beta, though I respect differing views as I would expect differing views to respect mine. :)
    Posted 18 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In another MMO I play, when your rent runs out, your items go to escrow and the house is blocked until you pay the back rent. If housing is a problem then maybe the house could go back on market after, say, 6 months in exchange for currents? That would presume you're not on holiday or taking a small break. If however you take a planned break, then a vacation option would be nice, but it should be payed for, otherwise everyone would block their homes forever. 
    I do like the idea of having chores to do when I come back and it would be wonderful if there was a system that gave a synopsis on lost events and changes because that's absolutely the hardest part of coming back: starting again in a changed world.
    Posted 18 months ago by Zira Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think something should change if you are away, if only so aquiantances and friends can see you haven't been around for a while.
    I like the Pause and Freeze option. Pause happens automatically.

    Pause:
    I like the "[name] is on a traveling through unknown places" option when you are at his/her doorstep.
    Starting from about 1 week of not logging in to the website.

    Piggies and chicken should vanish, as they get lonely and run off. Crops have disappeared because the piggies and chicken have eaten them. And would you still know after 3 weeks what crop you had planted when you left? I wouldn't. Wouldn't know my currants or how many animals exactly I had. (One, two, many.)

    From 2 months of absence, the message should change to: "[name] has gotten lost in unknown places"

    After x months, the house will be listed as abandoned. The door to the house is open, and the place becomes "lootable" for everyone. After being abandoned for more then x time, then the house becomes available on the market again.

    Freeze:
    [name] is in hibernation. Please come back another time and try again.
    Nothing changes then, crop, pigs, chickens, house, everything stays the same untill you unfreeze. Freezing can be done for a max of 6 months. After 5 months you'll get a mail with a warning, you can refreeze then.
    Posted 18 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So just to clarify this pause/freeze thing...
    Say I get sick and end up in hospital. The game would automatically pause. 
    I'm kept in there for a couple of months (has happened to me in the past on several occasions). 
    I'm obviously unable to select a freeze option, as I'm in hospital and too ill to be able to think about freezing a game. 
    I get better, released from hospital, or finally able to use laptop in hospital. 
    I come back online all happy to be alive and stuff and 
    "WELCOME BACK EBIL! Your house has been looted and resold!" 
    Erm... for some reason I fail to see how this could possibly be a good thing. 
    Maybe I'm missing something? 
    Posted 18 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let's be practical...this game has to make money, people. Let the devs decide on a system for those who quit playing, be it for 5 days or 5 months....They must make the rules and we must abide by them...Unless you are a power that be -     a power that is   , don't have pipedreams that are unreasonable   and impossible to implement.
    Posted 18 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm with you Ebil. I was in a car wreck and medically unstable for well over a week. Fortunately I didn't have a dog and kid at the time, and only needed the nurse to call my apartment manager and let her know to keep an eye on the place. I felt so weird asking the nurse if she'd mind logging into my account and pausing it, but she was a real gem about it. I don't think games should force players into situations like that if they can at all avoid it. I certainly wouldn't want to put myself through all that just to log in and find out it was pointless. 

    Equally, I'm not sure I want to see a bunch of abandoned characters being put on pause and left gathering dust for years. Having purchased a year+ subscription, in a perfect world I'd be able to get close to a year utility out of that, despite the fact I may have to spend 6 months abroad training. My younger brother paused his WoW account when his unit was sent to Iraq, and has done so each of his 4 tours since. Each time he's been able to pick back up where he left off... not forced to rebuild... and he certainly didn't stress over it while being shot at (though he'll admit he'd have been stressed at potentially losing the account and compelled to spend precious time logging in to maintain the account rather than talking to folks at home).

    There are load and loads of real world reasons people can't play all the time, and loads of game reasons for not having inactive or abandoned accounts with a physical presence in the world. I don't particularly enjoy walking through a land of abandoned Level 5's, but some games have chosen that design option. Glitch may be one of them. The trick to a truly excellent offering will be striking a balance, with a safeguard for the emergency scenarios.

    As much as people want to see in-game effects, I really don't think it will have the 'charming' effect people hope for. You're talking about people who have demonstrated the ability to walk away from Glitch, then making it more difficult at the point of return. The net effect is more commonly going to be disgust and moving on to other ventures, as opposed to seeing it as an opportunity. Seriously, look at the complaints about rebuilding after the reset and the worries and fears people have over it - those same feelings will surface if people need to rebuild after being away for a bit. That type of anxiety is not really worth the small potential gain in RP opportunities... there are more than enough RP opportunities without having to make balancing real world / game more complicated.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've worked really hard for my house. all 32 slots are full and my trophy case is looking pretty good. my bags are full of equipment, necessary things and cool stuff. i did it on my own, not by asking global chat for answers. I learned trial and error, accidental discovery and have created my strategy, both short term and long term, based on what i think is happening here. My subscription was paid in full for the year, at a time others were still asking for proof it had value. so while i don't mind a cobweb or dead crops or missing pigs, while my subscription is active i want my things to remain exactly as i left them. whether it is 5 days or 5 weeks, i have a plan that i will pick up and continue - free will. as a subscriber my house/my stuff should stay under my control for as long as my money has paid for.

    non-subscribers - wait for devs decision based on realistic system they can support.

    Come back experience different, i.e., better? - have the pigs tell me they missed me the first hour back. send me a welcome home frog with official welcome back yoga pose. have a newspaper at my house with "while you were gone highlight list" Have the shrines tell me what i can do to make it up to them for slacking in my donations.
    Posted 18 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We cannot dictate here......I wish pigs could fly but they don't....Stoot will figure out a solution...don't get  your knickers in a wad.. Thank God if you are injured you still have a brain left that can worry about your game status.....
    Posted 18 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If I'm kept away from the internet for any reason the last thing I worry about is my games. When I come back, if I don't find my things the way they were when I left then I feel discouraged from playing. I remember being talked into trying one of the farm games on Facebook a few years ago, the first time I couldn't log in regularly I came back to find my crops dead. It was the last time I played a farming game. The last thing I want is being punished by a game for having a real life.
    Posted 18 months ago by Fussycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Punishment is a very good teacher.

    no one is going to change your nappies for the rest of your life.  Get real. stop  expecting a game to allow you to perpetuate    an      infantile             attitude.
    Posted 18 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i think its obvious who's panties are wadded.
    Posted 18 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, I heard a rumor that eventually pigs might fly in Glitch, so there ya go on that one.

    This morning I am not convinced that there is even a point to my original post.  Time on the internet is completely different, you can't take a RL experience, e.g. the rituals inherent in returning home from an absence, and re-create that experience online.  It's like trying to put matching holiday sweaters on sub-atomic particles so you can take a nice group photo for posterity. Uh, or something...

    If TS is going to create a culture, i.e. something that lasts a long time, it won't be about figuring out how players can maintain their house in Alakol, or whether their accounts need to pause or decay or freeze.  It's going to be about where TS can take the group that contributes and makes up that culture. They are not going to stay in Alakol or even UR. Or even Glitch for that matter.  The question is what happens in the interplay between TS and the culture and where that leads.

    That's not very articulate, i know I am not explaining what I mean well, but basically I disagree with myself 24 hours later (a frequent habit).
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Punishment is a very good teacher.

    no one is going to change your nappies for the rest of your life.  Get real. stop  expecting a game to allow you to perpetuate    an      infantile             attitude."

    aw, c'mon now.  Where is my napabeth, who makes me think of soft rolling hills, a belly full of food and the mellow cloud of a nice wine?  This is napalmbeth!  Scorched earth!  

    Let's all just take a moment to get back in tune with our smooth muppety nakedness.  

    Ah, that's nice.
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Punishment is a very good teacher.

    Excuse me? Are you implying that it's ok to be punished by a game? I'm sorry if my opinion upsets anyone but I can't see how a game can be more important that the real life or how a game can dictate you what you should be doing or how often you should be logging in. If that's the case, why even play anything at all? There's plenty of other things to do, if you haven't noticed.
    Posted 18 months ago by Fussycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not sure I'd like a 'pause' feature, for two reasons.  First, it's really only useful for those who know they are going to be absent (say, on a vacation or working on an intensive project).  It's not at all useful for someone who falls into an emergency or whose life slowly whittles away at their spare recreational time.  Also, the only thing it really would pause is trees/pigs/crops dying off in your yard, all of which are rather quickly and easily replaced.   If they implement monthly taxes, that could impact your home, though, but we have no idea what taxes will look like.

    The greater question for me is not being dragged down in the minutia of what a pause feature might look like or whether we should have one or not... it's the question of culture in a broader sense - how do we build and maintain a culture (or cultures) in Glitch?  As with any online community, some thrive after some years gone by and some totally fade into oblivion or change into snarkfestville.  Certainly in the year I've been playing, the culture has changed. Some stopped playing or went on hiatus, new people surfaced - I expect this to rather be the norm that people come and go.  

    Those that have found thriving groups that suit their nature may have the best chance of succeeding at building a culture here.  I've been too reliant on global chat and a handful of people I know to really seek out a group or groups... but with the demise of global chat imminent, I think I'd better find a group to hang out in.

    I had considered starting a Glitch newspaper here - I think that sort of thing is needed here to help build a culture because the world is going to be too big for us to know all the trials and milestones that will happen.  But notes are cumbersome and don't last very long.  I suppose the edition could just be posted as a group discussion topic, but it'd be nicer to have something in the world you could read.

    But really, I'm still wondering how the current game facilitates culture or the ability to have a story of your character or an epic, heroic tale (and this line of thought comes from the Gamification topic).  Our heroic myths have no way of being etched into the game.  The skill tree is still so small that it's feasible to get all the skills in a couple of months, so there are no real niches to occupy.  The few niches I do see in Glitch happen in the auctions - this player does food well, that player does drinks well, this other one handles powders.  I don't consider the leaderboards to be heroic or mythical or anything other than the sort of thing that can fuel unbridled egoism (I think it rewards the wrong stuff).

    So, yes, I would like to see culture built here and I would like for there to be a way for us to be known in the game for our feats and our follies... and to somehow be missed by others when we are gone (as long as their leaving isn't some dramatic foot stomping designed to get attention).

    Sidenote to napabeth: we're here to give feedback to the developers on the game as beta testers, not just to sit to the side and wait for stoot to come up with 'a solution'.  
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would like an extended absence acknowledged by the game as my glitchling being in hibernation. It wouldn't bother me at all to see that my piggies had died or long run off and that my crops were long dead, although it might be nice to find some seeds while I was clearing away the overgrowth.

    ... and I would like my re-entry to the game to be as though I was awaking from a strange dream.

    (In other words, I am taking this opportunity to once again drum up support for glitch dream zones!)

    eta: I would looove the ability to catch up on back issues of the Ur Herald or whatever upon my return!
    Posted 18 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Napalm BETH speaks:

    time is ticking away
    let each arise to his own level of greatness
    as the frog imprisioned in mud  in the Zambesi  arises with the first blush of water
    Posted 18 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Having the game keep your account indefinetaly would be unprofitable for the game. I don't live thinking I could end up in hospital any moment, I live like I won't be in the hospital any moment. Also, most people who don't care about the game anymors simply stop playing and don't delete their account or sell their house. If you are getting busy in RL but still like the game then it is a small effort to let people in game (and the game itself) know you're busy for a while and unable to play.
    But what to do with the majority of the inactive accounts who just stop playing because of lack of interest? I think that will be the biggest group. The database needs to be cleaned once in a while.
    For me, if the game doesn't attract me anymore I just log in less often and often untill i stop alltogether. I won't cancel my account, too lazy for that. If I'd log in a year later to see if the game has changed, I wouldn't mind starting from the start again, as it is now it's easy to level and gather stuff. Also I will have forgotten how to play, and things might have changed. So I wouldn't mind even to have to start with a fresh character. I would probably prefer to do the tutorial again.

    Now, back on the topic, what would make me stay? What makes many of my WOW-playing gaming guildmates stick to wow, despite being bored with the game? The guild does. Friends. People. It´s about emotions, bonds, that keeps people.
    After a few days of playing I did have nice chats with a few people, and starting to make friends. If no one would be talking to me ingame I would be gone very fast. I´d try out the gameplay, get bored, no one notice me, and stop. So it is the community that makes me stay.

    What would make me come back?
    Being missed. Despite being all equal in game, and therefor no-one being special and everyone can be missed, everyone wants to feel a bit special and missed. A mail from my piggies and chickens that they miss me might help, play on my guilt :P.

    Ok now besides the social aspect, which developers can't influence directly, the game itself. Taking wow again as an example: I was terribly bored with the game mechanics. No challenge, no thinking, too many addons doing the thinking for you. No way to make a change in the world, like having a house. In the end it was only a fancy visual chat client for me, I only logged in to chat to others.
    I played Lord of the rings online a while, but am a bit bored with that again. It's all about loot. What I do like is that you can change appearance. And have a house where there are items to interact with. But I don't have the time to grind, am afk too often and came back to a dead body too often.
    So Glitch allready has a lot which I like - appearances, housing, changing the world by building streets, although that is not THAT much of a change, that would get repetitive too.

    - Added content, which wasn't there when I stopped would make me take a peek again
    - More posibilities to change the world.
    - Ability to specialize more, to stand out in the crowd if you want to. (Example: being one of the few who can bake weddingcakes which are 5 stories high). So more specialized skills that exclude other skills. It's about the feeling you have achieved something. (I don't count the current achievements as real achievements, too easy, too many, too meaninless.)
    - Making your house unique (dye, paint, furniture) and having it featured in a newspaper so people come and visit.
    - The newspaper would be very nice idea, with every period another house/player being highlighted so people get to know eachother.
    Posted 18 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Losing your house and belongings during a long absence is not all too painful now, if you're a high enough level you can get your stuff back pretty quickly. This will chance as the game gets more complex and we can completely customize our houses and make our own custom things like art objects. After you've spent months customizing your house with unique and rare items, some perhaps made for you by your friends, it will be a lot more painful to lose that. Yes, it's just image pixels, but if my friend makes me a unique work of art as a house warming present, I'd be sorry to lose that.
    Posted 18 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Original comment withdrawn.
    I would hate to return after a long(ish) absence,and find all my progress in game had been lost, I hope to find everything the way I have left it. To me there'd be no point in returning,if I had to keep starting over again and again,that would be frustratingly boring,besides,some things simply can't be replaced. If someone wants to start over,they can just create a new account (and hopefully,close the old one).
    Posted 18 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not sure what the problem with abandoned accounts is, either, except for the consumption of property (although housing can just be added to the game, certainly).  It's certainly none of my biz whether any other player is active or not - there's just too many reasons for attrition.  Hopefully, with the game constantly being developed, people won't leave because of boredom.

    However, I'm stumped by the couple of you that claim that subscriptions somehow factor into this one.  The *only* benefit that subscriptions confer are credits, teleportation tokens and votes.  They don't guarantee ability to play - anyone can play for free (at least in the current incarnation).  So, it's not the game you're paying for when you subscribe, it's some extras that make the game more pretty, make travel in-game easier and make it possible to vote on things. 

    I predict abandoned accounts to have less of an impact on TS's bottom line than players realizing that they can just play the entire game for nothing - that the sub won't hold its value.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think people to make a distinction between paid subscriptions and free accounts when they are speaking about abandonment. If I stop playing tomorrow, I am sure that Tiny Speck does not care whether I log on again until my subscription runs out a year from now. My house and belongings are not abandoned because I've 'rented' my house for a year. Free accounts on the other hand are another matter. In the past I've questioned beta.glitch.com/forum/gener... ... how do I make clickable links in this forum anyway??) the housing supply in regards to inactive accounts but stoot says they can make more easily so I'm not going to worry about it until they do.
    Posted 18 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What a weird can of worms you've opened, Nanookie!  Personally, I disagree with many of the opinions here:

    - TS has made a conscious decision not to charge anyone to play this game, and to only sell items which provide cosmetic or very minor benefits.  It's just bizarre to say that pausing a game would somehow lose money for the company.  Upon returning, people would generally be happier and more willing to fork over money if they didn't have to start over again.

    - Making it impossible for non-paying customers to pause their games is a bit nonsensical, since you could subscribe, end up in the hospital, have your subscription lapse while you're there, and lose your game/house/whatever just as easily as someone who never subscribed in the first place. 

    - Games are supposed to be fun.  Punishing players for not playing is silly.  Teasing them about it is funny.  Animal Crossing does handle this very well: when you return, your house has a minor roach infestation, and you have to step on the bugs to get rid of them.  Your town's grass grows weeds every day, so an extended absence leaves tons of weeds around.  You can pull them all up, or, in some version(s?) of the game, can have someone else do it for you.  If you cheat in the game by setting the console's clock back and replaying a day, an angry molerat or something pops up and lectures you.  It's amusing and harmless.  Losing your home, animals, and possessions is comparatively rotten.

    - As others have said, there's no housing shortage.  Supply eventually meets demand.  If you're worried that you'll never get that special house that you've always wanted, speak up.  It's likely that the staff will add another house just like it.  This has already happened many times.

    - If you've forgotten how to play, you can easily figure everything out again.  There's a help channel, a wiki full of information, and a menu of possibilities on every item.

    - Starting from the beginning again means re-learning all of the skills you had.  Imagine spending months learning them all, only to lose your account and have to learn them all over again.  Having played the entire game twice already, I can say that I'm not really looking forward to starting over a third time, mostly because the skills take so long to learn, and I find the game much more enjoyable when my skill levels are higher.  For many testers, launch = no more resets (and hooray for that!), so the idea of involuntary resets while I'm unable to play makes me pretty grumpy.

    What would I like?  I want the life cycles of my animals and plants to pause while we're away.  When we log back in, meat collectors could fill based on the amount of time we've been gone.  Cobwebs or bugs or something would be funny, but I don't really care either way.  Otherwise, there shouldn't be any penalty for not playing, because it's not a competitive game, and penalties just aren't fun.  The game's blog should serve as a sort of newspaper, if one hasn't been started by the players.
    Posted 18 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • MaryLilLamb...you need a space between your ( and http and then this is how it'll pop up as a link - 

    beta.glitch.com/forum/gener...     
    Posted 18 months ago by sgjo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You can make a clickable link by copying it into your post with no characters before or after it.  So, 
    beta.glitch.com/forum/gener...
    not 
    url=http://beta.glitch.com/forum/general/3033/ 

    But nowhere in the subscriptions does it say, "My house and belongings are not abandoned because I've 'rented' my house for a year."  Your subscription money is not used to rent your house and won't be unless TS changes that fact.  The only thing a sub buys you are clothes, tokens and votes.  Not a house, not a space in the game and not the game itself.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mary, next to the italic button at the top of the reply box is a link button with a green + symbol.  Highlight what you want to be clickable, click the button, paste the link, click "OK." 
    Posted 18 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really hope you're just a little bit wrong,zee ~I never thought of it that way, I really hope that's not the way it is. If RL drags me away for a longer spell,and my membership/subscription is up to date,then I do expect to find things the way I left them.
    Posted 18 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jasbo, what browser do you use? I don't see those options in IE. Thanks everyone else for the directions!
    Posted 18 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zeeberk, if TS, at this time, is not going to seize the house of free account holder, do you think they will seize mine?
    Posted 18 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mary - you don't see this?  It's not a browser feature.
    Posted 18 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (+100, glum, agreed with everything you said) :)
    Posted 18 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • jasbo, no I don't have those buttons
    www.flickr.com/photos/57771...
    Posted 18 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +100 to what glum said.

    Probably there's little that would make me MORE likely to quit and never come back than the notion that if I was gone for more than I few days I'd lose stuff, or get messages asking where I was.  I have enough responsibilities in the REAL world!  I don't need to be made to feel guilty about a virtual one.
    Posted 18 months ago by Tradescantia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ScillyGirl5 - staff has never indicted what will happen to a player after a very long absence.  I wish we would go to longer testing, because if people expect to find their pigs and trees alive when only playing on the weekend when the game is live, then they are in for a shock.  The only reason these pigs and trees live for a week in-between tests is because pigs and trees are turned off when the test is closed.

    I noticed that my pig feeder will deplete to half gone when I'm gone for 12 hours. Trees also tend to show signs of neglect after 12 hours.  So, if you're out of game for a few days with the game on during that time, you can expect to return home to (best case) an empty pig feeder and very close to dead trees or (worst case) meat and plop -- dead pigs -- and a stump waiting to be axed down for wood.  This is the way the game currently is.

    The subscription pages make *no* mention of your stuff staying alive while you are gone.  It's not at all what the subs are.  The subs are not about the ability to play the game nor do they alter how the game is played - the only thing they offer are clothes, tokens and votes.  That's it.

    MaryLilLamb: staff hasn't talked about seizing houses, so I don't know where your concerns come from.  Right now, houses do not get seized, regardless if you play for free or subscribe.  
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Weird.  I see them regardless of browser.  
    Posted 18 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For all players that leave for more than 30 days, regardless of gender, I would like to see a non-mandatory quest that asks them to buy a razor from a Street Spirit (or create one if their tinkering skills are high enough) in order to shave off the Rip Van Winkle beard they have acquired in their absence. The whole thing could be completed in 2 or 3 minutes.

    However, because the quest is not mandatory players are free to not shave the beard. The beard therefore functions as an indicator to other Glitches of their status as a recent returnee. There could be quests like A Kindly Act of Randomness aimed instead at newly returned Glitches to welcome them back. Maybe the new quest could be called something like A Winkle in Time.

    The beard could be programmed to fall off 1-2 days after returning regardless of whether it gets shaved off or not.

    Kind of kidding about about having this apply regardless of gender. I think this would be fun/funny for male Glitches. Any ideas for something similar for female glitches?

    Or, instead of going down the road of having different indicators by gender maybe it could just be the craziest most-overgrown (bird nests included) hairdo ever seen. 

    I would love something like this. I think it would be fun. It doesn't seem too "punishy". Especially because the new returnees would have 1) a way to get recognized as newly returned and 2)  a way to gain some easy xp for completing the welcome back quest.
    Posted 18 months ago by The Cat Face Subscriber! | Permalink
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