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#### Some thoughts on street herb gardens

Recently I've come across some status updates from friends complaining about how others blocked them for harvesting their street herb gardens. As someone who considers herbs near and dear to my heart (both in game and irl) I thought I'd offer my perspective, for what it's worth. ;)
I'm not in the habit of blocking folks willy-nilly, but I have blocked a few "pests" who cleared out my street herb gardens, leaving dirty plots behind. These were repeat offenders (minors, I'm guessing), and I made sure I was certain who the culprit was before I blocked them. A basic ethic in harvesting someone else's plot is to make sure to replant, that's common sense. Yet, some folks have been diligently replanting other player's plots, and have still been blocked, so apparently there's more going on here. So in order to get to the "root" of things (pun intended) we've got some...ahem...ground to cover, and first we might address the oft-debated topic of street-"ownership."
Many of us consider our streets to be "OUR" streets, even though technically speaking they are open to the public. The game dynamics support this sense of ownership: a street "owner" pays img to expand "their" street. They pay img to set a theme for their street, and to cultivate it with resources of their choosing. They are largely responsible for the upkeep of these resources, even though others may contribute from time to time in restoring depleted resources. Trees are locked to poisoning by other players, and certain items that are placed on an "owners" street such as icons or herdkeeping supplies cannot be removed or "stolen" by others. Not to mention that a street bears the name of its "owner."
Thus, even though these home streets are open to the public, they differ from public streets in the respects listed above. As such, there is a sense of personal proprietorship towards ones street, and many of us feel that our street is largely our personal property, though other players have the freedom to visit. In addition, a street "owner" has the option of blocking unwanted visitors, which further validates the sense of street ownership.
When a random visitor stops by "my" street, I'm quite happy to have them make use of the resources I've provided. At the same time, I feel no particular guilt in blocking folks who I feel are "abusing" my resources, such as by leaving dirty plots in my gardens. (Some of my friends have had their beloved animal pets stolen from their streets, and I would consider this another form of abuse.)
Why would I place an herb garden on my street if I didn't wish folks to partake of it freely? Good question. For me personally, it's a matter of aesthetics. My backyard is tailored to my sense of beauty, as is my street...the resources are placed in such a way that is in keeping with my sense of balance and harmony, regardless of their "use value." So yes, I have an herb garden on my street (which I might well keep hidden in my backyard) because it doesn't "fit in" with the scheme I've got going for the backyard. That's one reason. Secondly, I do wish to share resources with others, but at the same time, I appreciate a certain measure of respect.
I can empathize with street owners who consider their herb gardens to be their property, and who block accordingly. Even if someone replants your garden, they may not replant with the herbs you had initially planted. Even if they replant with the same herbs, it can throw off your rhythm if you come back in game in time to harvest your yellow crumb, only to find a bed of seeds. Some players leave notes requesting how other players treat their gardens, only to have the notes disregarded.
Resource routes have been created to direct people to folks who are happy to share their resources freely and abundantly. I'm a huge fan of these routes, and I applaud the participants wholeheartedly. At the same time, I'm not on a route for a reason. As much as I love the bonus img I receive from occasional visitors, along with the thrill that someone I haven't met before has made their way to my street, I also prefer some degree of privacy, and so I strive to maintain a balance that suits me. Again, for me personally, you are welcome to visit, so long as you are respectful of "my" space. Even if you throw off my gardening rhythm by your use of my gardens, I am largely forgiving, and indeed quite welcoming...up to a point.
But there's yet another element to street visiting to consider, one that goes beyond merely resource harvesting, and extends into the realm of gift-giving and random kindness.
My street is open to my friends, and to the occasional random passerby. If some random visitor wants to make use of my resources and in so doing passes on some bonus img to me, that's great! However, there is a generous sort of behavior that friends engage in between friends, that tends to differ from the random street visit. For example, if a friend visits my street, s/he may choose to harvest my herbs, but oftentimes that friend will do so for the sole purpose of giving me img, and will leave the harvested herbs with my butler as a gift for me. I do the same for them. The general idea when visiting a friend's street is to let the friend know you are thinking of them, and to leave them a gift. This gift takes the the form of img from resource harvesting, to be sure, but often a friendly token is left with the butler, along with a brief message. And of course if friends break eachother's resources, we are quick to do what we can to restore them. Again, we consider our visits to each other's streets as "gifts" we can give one another, and take joy in that.
Oftentimes, random visitors seem to be coming from a "taking" mentality, vs a giving one. So if you visit a random Glitch's street who is not on a resource route, nor on your friend's list, and harvest their garden strictly for the purpose of obtaining herbs, they may take offense and block you. If it's herbs you're after, and you don't wish to be blocked, my advice is to stick to the resource routes or community gardens. You may think you're doing someone a favor by giving them the img, but you may also be throwing off their gardening rhythm even if you replant. Obviously some folks don't appreciate that, and I can't say as I blame them.
Glitch is a wonderful community of kind-hearted, generous folks. We all have goals we are striving towards, but even so we are usually quick to lend a hand to someone who needs it. So maybe we can extend that generosity further, to those whose streets we visit. We can honor the personal nature of home streets, even if someone is on a resource route, and extend our appreciation in the form of gifts and caring for resources. We can broaden our view from "resources" located in databases to "players" and act accordingly, treating every person's street we visit as though they were our friend.
I'm reminded of a well-known parable where an angel (or faery, depending on your interpretation) was showing some dude around the afterlife. (Humor me if you've heard this one before, cuz not everyone has, and it's a good'un.:P) Anyways, he took him to a room where there was plenty of food available, but everyone was starving...their spoons were longer than their arms, and they couldn't feed themselves. "That's hell," said the angel/faery. He took him to another identical room, but here everyone was happy and well-fed. "They've learned to feed each other," said the angel/faery. "This is heaven."

Posted 4 months ago by KitchWitch | Permalink

### Replies

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- You say many good things. I would like to comment on only one thing you said.
  "You may think you're doing someone a favor by giving them the img, but you may also be throwing off their gardening rhythm even if you replant."
  I hope you can consider that it's impossible for a player to discern what another player's "gardening rhythm" is. For you, unless you are leaving notes informing them, it is something only you can know. You didn't say if you have placed notes, and I realize you aren't blaming anyone. I just wanted you to think about that people aren't mind-readers. They're going to think that something that is a good thing on one person's street (giving them iMG by using the resources) is going to be a good thing on another street.
  Just for myself, I found that I began enjoying playing Glitch so much more once I let go of the idea that "my" home street resources were for me. You talk about players giving gifts to each other: the resources that I put out there are my gifts to others. I still have a private space where I can have gifts for myself! That's just my 2 currants, though.
  Posted 4 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- I like that parable, I've not heard it before, it's a good one. I'll be honest, the first time I found a herb garden in a street I wanted to snatch the herbs even though at the time I didn't know what herbs did. It's a newbie thing(or just a rude/ignorant player) I guess, must hoard everything, it might be useful! We are like little chipmunks with overfilled cheeks. But the one thing that stopped me from snatching herbs (I though they were flowers actually), was I had only two or three herb seeds on me. I didn't have enough to replant, and I thought "Well it be rude to take all these herbs and not replant the same ones I removed. I'll just wait and get a herb patch of my own, I'm sure I don't need them..." So far the only things I touch in streets are trees and animals, and in that case it can be helpful to keep trees watered and animals happy.
  It's kinda disappointing that some people snatch first and get blocked later. It should be common sense that even though it's a public spot it's clearly still the 'property' of that player. And thus if you can't replant it or it's not something the replenishes no touchie (unless specified by the player.)
  And yes everyone in Glitch is so friendly. Well not everyone, I have not met every single person playing Glitch, but everyone I seem to bump into. People can leave you gifts in your butler, which I didn't even know until I saw the message "you have two new packages" and wandered home to figure out what that was about. Turns out I had 6 or 7 on and I'm scrambling to get names to ensure I can thank people properly for these gifts. Some left resources, some food, one an entire bag of fun things, one person an act of random kindness (yay I always wanted one!), and lots of kindhearted messages which brightened my morning up.
  Posted 4 months ago by Infinite Duck | Permalink
- You are both right.
  The best way to be happy in the game (and IRL) is to treat others with consideration. We can't read minds & sometimes you just take your best guess.
  I don't have "street" gardens & am not on a route. I have a variety of what I need & hope visitors can use use some or all of them. Nothing awful has happened & I usually get a package or message from strangers & friends alike.
  My crops/herbs are in my yard because I am obsessive about maintaining my resources & don't want to spend any MORE time tidying & topping off things.
  As to dirty beds on streets & community gardens - they are a wonderful source of mood & iMG when you clear & water them. The folks that "harvest & leave" are missing out.
  When visiting home streets I read ALL the signs first & never harvest without replanting, trying to replace the same as I take.
  Posted 4 months ago by Patricia | Permalink
- I am on the Serious Herbs route, and I offer 105 plots of herb garden for public use.
  The only things I request of those who use the street is that they sow what they reap and that they leave the planting of yellow crumb to me. (Yellow crumb has a long growing cycle and if planted throughout will monopolize the garden. I prefer to offer a variety of herb resources.)
  I have yet to block anyone. But I perpetually reserve the right to block someone who behaves in a way that leads me to believe that they have no respect either for my wishes or for the needs of others who may visit the street. My street is not SO public that it may be turned into a factory farm for one other person or selfishly pillaged and left a mess (repeatedly).
  So far, I've had conversations with a few glitchen who've seemed to be disregarding my requests, and so far the results have been entirely positive. A civil discussion has resolved any misunderstandings. I am grateful to the many, many visitors I get every day who are considerate to others and to me.
  I am happy to tend, organize, and restore the garden (although I'm of course grateful for any help that's offered). I don't worry AT ALL about reaping the harvests myself (although I will if things happen to be blooming when I check). I strive to keep the plots wet and planted at all times.
  I have NO expectation of gifts or reciprocation of any kind. This is one way of giving back to the community. I have more iMG and currants than I know what to do with. My butler usually has a stack of something nice to hand out. I try to have freebies available in my tower. I have a set of outdoor icons for anyone to use.
  I expect the best of people in this game, and on the rare occasions when they disappoint, I try to find out why and talk about it with them in a calm and friendly manner. So far, the whole experience has worked out pretty well.
  Posted 4 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- Very nicely put, though I do agree with Flowery about knowing how others go about their gardening. But it's good to keep in mind that one might disrupt a person's gardening rhythm and that may be the reason one gets blocked, which I think is the point you were making with that caution.
  The only thing that ever bothers me about my garden being used is when it's left uncleared. I don't mind if there aren't seeds replanted or if someone takes the all herbs (it's there for others and for the pretty flower blooms); I just mind, though only very slightly, when the messy plots are left behind. I just like it looking neat and pretty.
  Posted 4 months ago by Little Miss Giggles | Permalink
- I forgot to mention the "drops" you may get for clearing & watering. Very worthwhile.
  Posted 4 months ago by Patricia | Permalink
- I Like to harvest gardens and when on another players street I will harvest, clear the weeds and replant. I also leave the harvest behind for others because I have more than enough as it is. I seldom carry seeds with me and this is where the problem comes in. If I harvest an herb garden it is easy to replant. Lately I have harvested a couple of crop gardens only to discover that there are no piggies so I have been unable to replant. I did clear the weeds and leave the harvest though. I'd like to suggest that is you have crop gardens that you also have some pigs so visitors have a way to get seeds to plant. This may have nothing to do with gardens not being replanted. Some people are Takers and not Givers and it may not make a difference to them. It would be helpful to me and others like me though. I hate to leave a garden unplanted. I have a kind of "Gardener's Guilt" even though I was unable to replant.
  Due to the lack of piggies and the possibility of "breaking" a resource, I have made up a "Visiting Bag". This bag includes both herb and crop seeds, some urth, loam, peat, crystals, etc., items I might need to Restore what I break. There is only so much I can cram into one BB but I have a variety of items in it. That is something those of you who visit many streets might consider taking with you.
  Posted 4 months ago by Brib Annie | Permalink
- @Flowery Pott: you raise a beautiful point, that our street resources are gifts to others. I'd like to think that was implied in my initial posting, but reading back over it, I'm sorry to say it probably wasn't...thanks so much for emphasizing that!
  @everyone else: thanks for your loving and thoughtful postings! I'd love to honor each and every one of you in turn, but it's late and I should be feathering it, so just know that I think you're right on, and thanks for your well thought-out responses. ;)
  Posted 4 months ago by KitchWitch | Permalink
- Being a new member I might be a little ignorant in this but isn't this what the private gardens are for?
  It seems to me like If have something I don't want others to touch it goes in my private garden. Then if I have crops that I don't mind others fiddling with they go out on my public street.
  Is there not enough space in a fully extended private garden?
  Posted 4 months ago by Dizzard | Permalink
- It seems to me like If have something I don't want others to touch it goes in my private garden. Then if I have crops that I don't mind others fiddling with they go out on my public street.
  Is there not enough space in a fully extended private garden?
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  New players, especially those who do not have the luxury of being able to play hours at a time, have small yards. As a way of getting started, they may place gardens in their front yard in the hope of being able to use them -- and perhaps because they don't understand that their street is accessible to everyone, not just those they've added as friends.
  Players who are low-profile and interact primarily with a small circle of friends also may not understand that their street is accessible to everyone.
  Other players put gardens on their street to create a community resource. This works out great if others treat the garden as a community resource to be shared with others rather than as booty to be plundered.
  Posted 4 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- Dizzard, you had the benefit of the new tutorial, which explains a bit better that personal streets are semi-public, and you have your house and backyard as private locations. When the streets were first introduced in this 2d beta, there was lots of speculation that these were indeed private areas that we could open up to others (such as those on our friends list, etc). Many were used to the 'private until I make it open to you' model (especially since that was how we originally dealt with our previous homes). However, it was implemented quite the opposite. The home streets are actually public (full open), and if you want it private, you will have to block others to keep them off your street.
  Honestly much of this discussion really comes down to some people are social players, and some aren't as social, even in a 'social game'. It comes down to play styles...some people would prefer only their known friends come into their yards (so they may block strangers to ensure their friends have access to the resources), others don't care who comes through, others will only block those that 'abuse' the resources on their street, and still others want their streets all to themselves. All of these play styles are acceptable and valid ways of playing since all are permitted.
  There are few rules in this game which is what makes it hard on many...some want to dictate what the rules must be or should be to others based on their own personal play style...and some will quietly use tools like blocking to ensure their own person play style is isn't infringed upon. Sometimes blocking is personal, sometimes it really isn't...it's just a person protecting their personal way of playing, with nothing against any particular other player. Some who want this game to be open and social all the time, can't wrap their heads around why others might like to have a small social circle in game to enjoy it on a more personal/private level. But the game allows for both types of play.
  The biggest issue, when it comes to herb and crop gardens, especially the ones on players' streets is that there is a person that spent hard earned iMG to provide that resource plot and often spends additional resources to keep it maintained for the other players typically with little to no expectations that anyone else will help out. However, IMO, it's just common courtesy to replenish what is taken, especially on players' streets. However, courtesy, like sense, often isn't as common as it could be...
  Posted 4 months ago by b3achy | Permalink
- I like this post.
  I have about 120 herb plots on my street and I spent most of my time in Glitch playing in one garden or another. It's just something I enjoy. I'm always happy to share my space with others, because others share their spaces with me. Almost everyone who comes and picks from my gardens is awesome. I get cool packages and nice thank you notes. I meet new people all the time and I enjoy providing the space, because I love to garden, too!
  I do occasionally block someone from my street when they come and take every single plot and don't replant. I get few enough visitors and am in often enough that my butler and I can usually easily pinpoint the culprit just by checking the visitor list. I don't feel bad blocking them - they ruin it for the next guy. Most people don't have the resources to replant 120 plots from nothing... nobody but the guy who just stole all the plants, anyway!
  In general, these are the things I think about when I am out herb gardening - maybe someone will get something out of it:
  * You should always replant a plot that you've harvested. It's just paying it forward - someone did it to benefit you, and so you do it to benefit the next guy.
  * To get more herb seeds, click the flower in your bag (the one you just harvested) and choose "Shuck". Some herbs give you a lot of plants per seed, and others give you a lot of seeds per plant, but you will always be able to replant every plot you harvested and still have plenty of loot to take home, promise! (You can increase the number of seeds you get when shucking with upgrade cards and by studying herbalism. Or ask me to shuck'em for you - I can and will!)
  * Try to leave the place a little nicer than you found it. You will inevitably encounter gardens, especially on the routes, that have been completely ransacked, or dried out, or entirely replanted with a really low value flower. It's no big deal. Just do what you can, maybe plant a variety of things so the next person has better seeds for their own travels, maybe replace some of the cheaper flowers with more expensive ones. I promise, you still make money even if you're being thoughtful.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wintera Woodswitch | Permalink
- :D :D Loving all the responses, way cool...seriously sleeping now. Catch ya laters...and please do help yourselves to my gandlevery. (I'm trying to put in a good stash of herbs before potions 3 comes out, so planting a variety here and there, but yah....) Help yourself. Just be sure to leave some for the bears. ;)
  EDIT: Ok, I know that last bit seemed obscure, but seriously...we've got a mama bear in our area who is seriously stressing big time about her 3 cubs, so any good juju you can send her way is much appreciated, thanks you! xoxo
  Posted 4 months ago by KitchWitch | Permalink
- Thank you for starting this topic.
  Posted 4 months ago by Thyself | Permalink
- From what I've read in several posts now, I've become quite paranoid about streets with gardens. Only during the last two days, I've twice come across streets where someone had harvested everything without even weeding, in streets that I was visiting in order to buy something from the tower, and not to use the resources. But what with people talking about blocking others for perceived garden abuse, I now felt that I had to clean up these gardens, in order to make sure that I wouldn't be blocked for something I hadn't done - although of course it's quite possible that I have already been banned from some streets and don't even know.
  Don't get me wrong, I've cleaned up gardens before just because of wanting to be helpful, but I now feel that I might be blamed and punished for other people's rudeness and therefore have to have to tend gardens even though I might really only have wanted to buy something quickly before logging out. So, even never touching any garden plots in others' streets at all would still not ensure I wouldn't be blocked.
  For all those who have "rules" on what people may or may not do in their streets - please put those down somewhere at least, even if you think they should be obvious for people to know about. It seems that what one player considers quite obvious things everyone should adhere to is not the same as other players think. For example, I'd never really thought about plant growing times, except from Purple, and I was not aware at all that Yellow Crumb was so undesirable. Same goes for "gardening rhythms" - even if you say that there are people who ignore notes, I don't think it is fair not to leave any at all and then punish even players who would have followed them, had they known about them, arbitrarily.
  Please don't assume that everyone else has the same knowledge and gameplay style you have, and punish people accordingly. What you perceive as malice and egotism may simply be someone not being aware of a certain aspect of the game mechanics.
  Posted 4 months ago by Not a Princess | Permalink
- I did not build a garden for you, or as a gift, or because I'm feeling warm-fuzzies of generosity. I built it for me. Probably had a reason for building it, watering, and planting.
  At one point I had over 100 herb garden plots in my front yard. I got tired of coming home to no herbs, dirty dried out plots and broken gardens. So I stopped planting in them, posted a sign stating people were welcome to use them but please to not repair/rebuild as I eventually wanted them gone. There are now 4 crop garden plots.
  Math time! If I get 7 iMG for harvesting... how much iMG did I lose across 100 plots when someone would decide to harvest it all and not replant? Certainly not an amount equal to the iMG I was 'being given' by the visit. The remaining 4 crop garden plots represent my current break point.
  Did I block high level players who should know better? Certainly. Don't try pinning this on the new folks either. This started (and my gardens disappeared) before they got here. Know who else I block? High level players who come in and buy up all of the (very) basic resources I sell at a (now very small) discount in my tower. If you're a high enough level to have the skills, there's 25 pigs outside. You can't be in such desperate need of 200-300 meat at a 'profit' of 1c each, so I chalk it up to greed. I've actually found the new players to be generally courteous (even if one of em thought food from gardens was the only way to get food, she still had the common sense to replant) while others are terrified to touch anything on a Home Street.
  It takes all kinds to make a dynamic game atmosphere. I handled my irritation on the topic one way, others have chosen differently. The gardens have become the 'new' mining debate. Full of unwritten player rules, argument, and tension. No thanks. I'll keep the trees and rocks out front and my gardens in my back yard.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- I have had a very nice encounter with someone who has a lot of herb gardens in her front yard. In fact, I think I made a new friend in the game in our interactions. I harvested, shucked and replanted. I have only been playing for 5 days now* and I needed herb seeds to get started. I left a little 'hello' note and explained I was after herb seeds and mentioned in passing that there weren't any hairball in that patch to replant. A bit later she chased me down and gave me some hairball seeds! I am very thankful that she has all those garden plots out there for us all to use. It's someone who has already posted on this thread, BTW. Thanks!
  (*disclaimer- in this incarnation: I am a first-beta-era player who deleted my old account and quit for awhile)
  Posted 4 months ago by Feldspar Gravity | Permalink
- I find it amusing that some of the most frequent boasters about how many people they have blocked, also seem to be some of the loudest self-promoters in the Trade Channel. I've heard some bitter newbies who tried to go to someone's tower only to find they'd been blocked.
  Fortunately, there are a lot of us who welcome everyone, even those who use our gardens.
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- "[S]ome want to dictate what the rules must be or should be to others based on their own personal play style...and some will quietly use tools like blocking to ensure their own person play style is isn't infringed upon. Sometimes blocking is personal, sometimes it really isn't...it's just a person protecting their personal way of playing, with nothing against any particular other player. Some who want this game to be open and social all the time, can't wrap their heads around why others might like to have a small social circle in game to enjoy it on a more personal/private level. But the game allows for both types of play."
  I think this is a really great point that needed to be reiterated!
  It's totally OK to block people you don't want to interact with for whatever reason, which is why the function is there, but to me Glitch is made better by allowing for multiple types of play. I try to be courteous when visiting home streets, but I think it would be silly to assume that my idea of courtesy is universal.
  There was a term someone (sorry, uncredited!) used in another thread that I really, really loved: being a "griefless glitch".
  Posted 4 months ago by Persephone Pear | Permalink
- Anything you put in your front yard is public. You can desire and say it's yours, and solely yours to use, but that is absolutely not the case. If you put anything in your front yard, do so with the understanding that it is public. Do not put a herb garden and then expect no-one to harvest from simply because your street has your name on it.
  Now, that is not to say that there aren't bad manners in regards to the use of gardens. Not cleaning and replanting is simply rude behavior. For me, I replant what I harvested. That means if your garden had all purple, I plant purple. If it's yellow crumb, I plant that. If it's a mixture, I plant that. Unless there is a sign that says what is preferred for planting.
  If you want your herbs private, plant them in the back. When you plant them in the front you agree to the fact they will be public, and will be used as such.
  As a side note, these "pests" who do not replant, do you take the time to talk to them and maybe ask them to be considerate and replant before blocking them? I find simple communication goes far in life.
  Posted 4 months ago by Evelynddra | Permalink
- For what it's worth, my garden is festooned with signs politely requesting the behavior I described. Any visitor who pauses for a second to run a cursor over the note pole sign will understand my modest requests. I also have a gnome who passes on the same message.
  As I said, I haven't blocked anyone. And I hope never to feel that I need to.
  Posted 4 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- There are a lot of good people in this game that I may never have gotten the chance to know if I had simply blocked them so that they were unable to visit my street. And it truly is disheartening to find yourself blocked and unable to communicate with someone simply because you didn't know their style of play was different than yours. While I have learned that there are some people that want to have more control of their front gardens, I've found just as many who feel the opposite and want others to harvest. Unfortunately, there is little way to know which is which.
  I've been blocked by several people recently (all, I assume, due to my harvesting and replanting of herb gardens). Having communicated with a few of them (sometimes indirectly, given that I cant talk to them while they still have me blocked) I've found that some were concerned I was the culprit of leaving weedy patches (which i was not), some had problems with people planting purple when they wanted yellow, others relied on the yellow crumb i was harvesting (although I always replant, its understandable if they were just about to harvest and find that i swung thru and put fresh seeds instead).
  For those that chose to communicate with me about their issue rather than blocking, I happily respect their wishes and no longer harvest/replant at their homes. Yes the streets are public. No I did nothing wrong. Nevertheless, if its causing someone distress I certainly cease and desist. For those who choose not to speak to me and simply automatically block me, I will continue to argue that it's an indication that we need some better game mechanic to indicate preference of visitor actions (there are more polite people out there than not--and more people who would follow a homeowner's preference than not). Blocking people who don't play the game the same way as you (and have no way of knowing how you prefer to play the game) just cannot be the ideal solution to all of this. Think of all the people we won't get to meet because of these situations.
  Posted 4 months ago by Soupie♨ | Permalink
- Why are herbs special?
  Why don't people with other resources expect/demand all harvested goods be left with their butler?
  How would demands like that be treated if it was any other resource other than herbs?
  I am so f-ing over this topic.
  Please, everyone just f-ing block me.
  I'm sick of being polite when visiting streets is said to be all take and no give.
  Perhaps look in a mirror.
  Posted 4 months ago by xombiekitty | Permalink
- I never read notes, they throw off my rhythm
  And I can never catch what gnomes say, unless I'm paying attention to them, which i very rare
  Posted 4 months ago by shhexy corin | Permalink
- Wait a minute -- Did I just read in this thread that a Glitchie is blocking people for purchasing something from a tower? Go ahead and block me please because I do so regularly.
  I have wondered why even though I have a modest number of visitors that my herb garden is rarely touched. Now I know why: People are scared to do anything with it. I shall tear it down and replace it with something that does not frighten them.
  Posted 4 months ago by Yendor | Permalink
- Because there is no way for the street owner to know exactly what a visitor did on his/her street I am totally paranoid about streets with herbs or crops, and I avoid them completely.
  If I were to be falsely accused of taking someone's herbs or crops when it was in fact a visitor before me or after me I would probably stop playing Glitch.
  On a happier note, a big thank you to Glitchens who happily provide rocks, trees and other resources for all of us to use and enjoy :)
  Posted 4 months ago by Taniya | Permalink
- Wandering Confusion:
  Know who else I block? High level players who come in and buy up all of the (very) basic resources I sell at a (now very small) discount in my tower.
  ****
  Yes, Yendor, you did.
  If someone has something for sale in their tower, regardless of price, it is for sale.
  Blocking people for buying it, no matter how many pieces, is abusing the blocking option.
  I am loving this thread now because it's a wonderful way to add people to my own block list.
  BTW, from the Community Guidelines: http://www.glitch.com/guidelines/
  "Public areas are public, so treat them as a shared resource."
  Posted 4 months ago by xombiekitty | Permalink
- I do indeed block people for purchasing things from my tower when I feel my generosity is being abused. I block them for being obnoxious. I block them for spamming. There's loads of reasons I can and do, block people. My reasons don't have to make sense to you, and my decision to block someone should in no way alter the way they play.
  See, that's part of the beauty in Glitch. I get to play my way. If someone else is playing their way and it disagrees with the way I want to play, I don't have to interact with them. If a person has done something I don't like, I block them. Not sure why the polite police have an issue with it, it's far less annoying than the ongoing status updates about busted/dirty gardens.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- @Not a Princess - I hear you about manners panic! A few times in the past I've wanted to nip quickly onto the herb route for a bit of extra and found street after street almost entirely cleaned out, then panicked that the owners might think it was me. Most times I get to shucking and replanting when this happens, but sometimes after a chain of three or more streets where all you've done is give and no take, it does get tiresome. (This has happened to me a number of times, although other Glitches have told me it's a rarity, so it might be a time zone thing, I guess.)
  The routes as they're now managed at http://resources.grelca.com/route/, with random assignment of the street you land on, may help that problem, and I ought to take it on myself to carry a decent bag full of seeds next time I do want a community herb home street run.
  Posted 4 months ago by Payday | Permalink
- I'm really confused. Why would you put items for sale in your tower and then block people for buying those items? Just askin' :)
  Posted 4 months ago by Taniya | Permalink
- @Taniya.... I've had the same high level players come in multiple times in a day and buy out anything they could sell to a vendor for at least 1c higher. The practice offends me as a matter of economics and meta-gaming. I opt not to interact with a certain type of player just as many people opt not to interact with me. I'm under no obligation to continue being part of their game play.
  Much like the rules people want to make up and have others follow about the how / when / what of using their garden (or when they can mine / share mining / poison trees in the world / types of trees to plant in certain spots of Ur / relocate pigs), I can make up my own rules about who I want to interact with / have visit my street / sell to. In the scheme of things it's not a big loss to either side.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- My reasons don't have to make sense to you, and my decision to block someone should in no way alter the way they play.
  It will, though. If I were to find out that someone had blocked me without telling me what I had done to annoy them to that point, I would definitely be very worried if I had done something terribly offensive - but I would have no chance whatsoever to adjust my behaviour because I wouldn't know what it was. So I would likely become even more guarded in my interaction with others and their things than I am now, what with reading about people who seem to block masses of people.
  Posted 4 months ago by Not a Princess | Permalink
- Not a Princess - I understand what you are trying to get across. What I am trying to get across is *I* am in the minority. I'm assuming you wouldn't really get neurotic if a handful of people blocked you, and that's what we're talking about here. There are plenty of people who get a huge thrill out of the warm-and-fuzzies Glitch can provide.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- Just so I understand... If I buy an item you have marked for sale at a price you have chosen to sell it at, I am "abusing your generosity"?
  Posted 4 months ago by Yendor | Permalink
- Does it really matter why I've chosen to block someone? Their habit caused me to alter my preferred play style. If / when you go to visit a street you have been to before and discover yourself to be blocked, what is the thought process? If it's 'what did I do?' then a review of your actions probably tells you why. If you can't come up with an answer, why do you need / want to be on their street or buying from them?
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- I'm not a new player. I suppose you could call me a "high level" player (although 60 feels so far away with those img requirements) :D If i see something for sale at a great price, I buy it. Heck, I'll buy it in bulk if its available. To bring that back to the original topic of herbs--If i see yellow crumb for sale cheap, I'll snatch it up, shuck it, plant it, make it into an essence, donate it, sell it, whatever best describes my need for it at the time. If i don't find it for sale cheap, I still buy it and do the exact same thing. But, if it's available for 110c instead of 120c, i cant think of many people who would go to the 120c herbs first. I have also, as players can attest to, sent messages to players who are *way* undercharging just to make sure they are aware they can make more from it.
  I honestly don't think that makes me a certain type of player--at least not in a negative connotation. In the real world, if you can go to Store A and pay $1 for something or go to Store B and pay $2 for the same thing, I think most of us would consider store A the logical choice. We're not talking about stealing from the community kitchen to make a profit--just buying from one store rather than another based on asking price. Much like the harvesting of herb gardens themselves, its hard for a player to know someone else's intentions for pricing something a certain way. I've actually had conversations with sellers in their tower, told them they could make more of a profit, and they have told me they know but they do it for the fun of sharing their resources or, believe it or not, just the fun of seeing how quickly it will sell out as people race to their tower to buy it.
  In the end, we are still at the very beginning of the economy transition. Keep in mind that soon (if rumors are true) the vendors will stop buying items, limit what they sell, etc..and eventually go away. Once we reach that point and the buy/sell price of items is based solely on player market, I'm sure things will even out a bit.
  Long story short, I still wish that, if someone was tempted to block for reasons other than willful abuse/harassment, they would reach out to that person first. I know, I know...if wishes were fishes the sea would be full..but a Glitch can dream :)
  Posted 4 months ago by Soupie♨ | Permalink
- This thread (and reading some of Xombiekitties troubles) has changed my mind about blocking. Previously, if I would have found that a player had blocked me, I would be worried that I had done something wrong, and try to find a mutual friend to reach out and find out how I needed to change my behavoir.
  In the future if I find I have been blocked, I'll assume that whoever blocked me is an ******** that I don't want to give IMG or currants to anyway.
  Posted 4 months ago by Yendor | Permalink
- Not a Princess - Well, this thread should teach you that if someone has blocked you, you needn't worry at all. It was probably someone like Wandering Confusion who has their own unusual game style. If you are behaving politely and someone blocks you, it's their issue, not yours!
  I would not be surprised if there are not a few glitchen out there who so want their whole space to be private that they block every player who ever sets foot on their streets. It's weird, but it's okay. Players can block whoever they want, whenever they want, for whatever reason (or non-reason) that suits them. Don't sweat it - it's one or two or a dozen players out of thousands.
  Edit - As Yendor pointed out while I was writing this.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hawkwell | Permalink
- I'm not selling things at a deep discount, nor am I selling anything particularly valuable. I'm not talking $1 versus $2 in differences either, I'm talking $.98 or $.99 versus $1 [when sold] at the vendor from players who have been around.
  As much as it gives a warm fuzzy to think everyone is going to talk it out and be friends, what you ask is not how the mechanic is designed. If block were to only be used in cases where it's abuse / harassment, you would not be given the option to decline reporting them to staff. If the mandate was to 'talk it all out' or 'explain why' or 'send the person notice', there would be some sort of mechanic to force the behavior built in. You have options: block, report, or block & report.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- I'm wondering--if it's really a huge deal to someone that their lower-priced stuff not sell to higher level bargain hunters, could they request to not be visible on GlitchRemote? Would the GlitchRemote administrators be able to create a way for players to opt-out of being listed? I am really weirded out that someone attributes malicious intent to their customers.
  Also, I would recommend a player with this preference put up note poles both inside and outside of the tower stating that they would like for their items to be left for less wealthy players. Make the tower's name something like "high lvls plz read signs 1st" or whatever will fit along those lines.
  Don't put the lower priced stuff in the lobby, but DO put a directory note pole and have those light up arrows pointing at it. Title the note "READ BEFORE BUYING". On the floor(s) with lower priced wares, put note poles explaining the purpose of those items, and again put the arrows pointing to it.
  Very important thing about Note Poles: Put in a subject line that succinctly gets as much info across as possible. People will see that when the mouse pointer moves across the pole, whereas expecting people to read every single note pole without an idea of what it is about is going to end in your being disappointed.
  Subject lines, by the way, need to say something useful, not just "READ THIS" or "IMPORTANT". Something like, "Please read--rules for my tower customers" is far better. (also, if it is more of a poetic sign, put "TitleOfPoem by Author" rather than "Poem".
  I think that getting upset about people buying your stuff is extremely...silly...and a rather unreasonable expectation, but if you really want this to be a thing, you'll get a lot further giving people the information about your preferences so they can decide how to proceed rather than assuming someone who is buying your stuff is a bad person because they didn't read your mind to know what you wanted.
  The vast majority of replies here indicates that most us are pretty flabbergasted at possibly being thought of as greedy/a jerk when we are engaging in the most absolutely normal form of commerce in the world--finding the lowest price offered for merchandise that is otherwise identical, and buying from that vendor.
  I honestly can't think of a real life situation where that would be frowned upon. I mean, if needy people are hungry and want to go to a food pantry or soup kitchen, that stuff is given away to the needy, not sold; a well-off person would be aware that such places are there for that purpose. Going to Goodwill to buy stuff when you're well-off? Not only is that totally okay, your purchases help support their programs. From their FAQ:
  If I shop at a Goodwill store, will I be depriving disadvantaged people of stuff they need?
  No. Goodwill serves disadvantaged people by educating, training and placing them into jobs. By becoming gainfully employed, these individuals gain resources to buy the things they need. Many disadvantaged people who are in training or are employed by Goodwill Industries are offered vouchers or discounts at Goodwill retail stores.
  I also think that if your goal is to provide for the needy, then a more effective way to make sure your items go to needy people is to find them and give to them directly. If you want to support newer players, it's probably more useful to watch for requests for help that you can provide, either by teaching them how to do something or by giving them some supplies to accomplish a goal so they feel encouraged.
  Finally, I'd like to say, on this topic, that there is no such thing as poverty in this game. There are no unequally applied barriers to character growth and well-being in Glitch. Many of us have explored and learned and quested our way through Ur long before there were towers and the like, and it was actually better that way in the long run. Learning some self-sufficiency, learning to budget and save up for things we want? Those are good things. They'll be okay! really! :)
  Posted 4 months ago by MG Botia | Permalink
- Wandering Confusion--Understood. :) I'm definitely no Pollyanna-I know there will always be players who prefer the block option. And to that I say "to each their own". In essence, what I was trying to convey is that I would like to see a change to the current mechanic (ie-adding in a reason for the block, offering temporary blocks that would last long enough to narrow down true griefers but not require one to go in manually and remove). Until that time, though, I can only hope that we, as a general community, can try to work together rather than shut each other out.
  Posted 4 months ago by Soupie♨ | Permalink
- Not a Princess - Well, this thread should teach you that if someone has blocked you, you needn't worry at all.
  Yes, I'm beginning to see that. I'd always thought of blocking as a tool to use on chat spammers, or on people who say very offensive things, and that's how I use it (in other environments, I think I haven't blocked a single person in this game). I'm not aware of having been blocked myself by anyone on any website or game I've ever been to (as I try to be a decent person), so the thought of being blocked because I happened to come across a street after some random person nicked all the herbs really was troubling to me, because I assume that would mean people saw me as being really offensive.
  But if people really use this tool to enforce a kind of game play that is difficult to achieve according to the game's mechanics, and if being blocked does not lead to any other negative consequences, such as staff review of the blocked person's account, then I wish them luck with it.
  Posted 4 months ago by Not a Princess | Permalink
- I guess I have to ask...when did blocking become solely punishment vice also protection? People were provided the blocking ability to protect themselves from other players who they don't want to interact with, especially those who were targeting certain players and regularly grieving them. As Wandering has been pointing out, people block for many reasons. Frankly, I don't want to necessarily change someone's style of play, and if I don't want to participate in it, I will block them. I don't want to 'work it out' because there is nothing to work out...they play in a way that I don't want to, and I don't want to have to deal with it, so I block.
  I also block for many other reasons...maybe someone is, in my perception, a moron or a jerk or an a-hole in the forums multiple times; or maybe they irritate me that day because I'm PMSing; maybe I don't like their choice of language or their choice of player names or their choice of wardrobe or lack thereof that day; maybe since I'm 30+ years their senior (and I don't want to be wrongly accused by their parents of being a pred) I blocked them to prevent any future ill will even though they are the nicest player ever; maybe I blocked because I know they are an adult but they are acting younger than the 14yos that play here and I don't like to be around immature people; maybe I blocked because they were vile to a friend of mine; maybe I blocked because my blocking finger was getting itchy due to lack of use, and I just wanted to block someone that day for no reason than I wanted to....maybe...do you get the idea yet? Some of us use blocking so we don't have to try to change anyone else's style of play, but can protect our own. I'm not suffering for friends - have over 300 on my list, so it's not that I don't 'get the social aspects of the game'...but I also have a very large number of blocked players on my list. I am not going to explain to them why I blocked them because not all of my blocks were for anything they'd remotely perceive as doing anything wrong - but for some reason it probably rubbed me the wrong way (yes, it's my problem not theirs). I just choose to take my bat and ball and play on a different field than them.
  And yes, blocking this many people really hinders my game play at times. I can't join routes because my street has to be completely open. I try to avoid high traffic areas, especially during events like Zilloween because I don't want someone getting their undies in a twist because when they try to give me candy they find out I blocked them. So, why would I block so many? Because I like my style of play, and don't want to impose it on others, just as I don't want others imposing their style of play on me. Blocking can be for good or evil...just in how you use it, I guess...
  Posted 4 months ago by b3achy | Permalink
- If people harvesting the herbs in your street throws off your rhythm or whatever, then maybe having them in your front yard isn't for you. "It doesn't match" your back yard theme to have it there? Then accept the fact that your public street's gardens are public. If it's very, very important to you to have a cycle, then maybe you could find a friend who will give you a key to their house and doesn't have a lot of time to work on their own gardens.
  I think it's weird to expect people to leave what they harvest with your butler. And yeah, it's nice if they clean and replant, but it is not something you're going to be able to control. If you have street gardens, they're going to be messy sometimes.
  One solution I can think of is to create a gardening service group. People who enjoy gardening could provide the service of checking client gardens a certain number of times per RL game day. They could keep track of what was done when and what needs to be done by posting in the group discussion--that way whoever is available can do what's next on the schedule rather than assigning individual gardeners to specific clients.
  The group would have to decide what to charge (if anything) for the services.
  A whole landscaping group could offer a wide range -- clean gardens, restore resources, replace animals (a client would have to say how many of each they wanted), refill feeders, replenish/replace wood trees.
  An alternative, of course, is to simply hire an independent contractor to check in on your street periodically and do these things.
  Posted 4 months ago by MG Botia | Permalink
- I stopped working other peoples herb gardens because of all the commotion that was arising in the forum and local chats..I always cleaned..watered and seeded every plot even if I didn't use them...If I did use them I reseeded what I took..If I found dirty plots ( when I first arrived ) I cleaned watered and seeded them too. But then I got to thinking...maybe I shouldn't be doing this..maybe they wont like it..I better stop..so I did...I only ever did a selected few and they looked mostly like I was the only one using them as even after a few days they were still sitting as I left them ..No one ever complained..and I don't think any of those people blocked me..but I just felt uncomfortable harvesting a whole heap of plots that weren't mine even though it was probably me that planted them in the first place and even though I knew I was going to clean, water and replant everyone before I left. But still I felt guilty...So now I just stick to my own wee back yard herb garden to stock my tower..and this keeps me right. My main point here is.. I'm sure.. that is not how it was
  intended to be...but, if I am left feeling this way, them I'm pretty sure a lot of other people feel this way also..and that's a shame.
  I should add that I don't care what other people do on my home street as that is what I have designed it for...I love visitors and I love that they use my stuff..and visit my tower and buy my herbs & stuff..I love everything about it and hope that everyone will always feel welcome and comfortable there... and continue to enjoy the things I have put on offer for them to use. :)
  Posted 4 months ago by Cryztal | Permalink
- Wandering Confusion - Don't get me wrong; I agree (as I wrote earlier) that it is perfectly okay for you to block whomever you like for whatever reason you like. But I wonder about the logic that you are using. From what you have written it sounds as though you had listed meat at 7 currants and blocked people who you believed were buying it all to sell to the vendor for 8 currants, while you had intended the meat for low level players.
  First of all, I would ask why you think low level players would want to buy meat at 7 currants. It's been a long time, but my memory of being a low level player is that money was the one thing always in short supply. I would never have bought meat at 7 currants when (as you write) there were 25 piggies right outside the door to nibble for free. Low level players simply aren't likely to buy things they can harvest for free.
  Secondly, I would be amazed that anyone would take the (loading) time and effort to visit a tower for a 2-300 currant profit. To a higher level player 300c is next to nothing. Add to this that a quick look at the Marketplace shows over 10,000 meat available at 7c, many with 500 or more listed and some untouched for a week or more. Those greedy buyers just don't seem to be ransacking all the bargain-priced meat.
  So why was some high level player buying that meat? One possibility is that they might be an avid cook. High level players get tired of the grind to collect resources and some don't like the hassle of keeping animals. So a cook might be looking around at the towers to find the best deals on all the ingredients for their recipes. Then they might even be cooking things up and selling meals in their towers, possibly at very reasonable prices because the ingredients were cheap and they didn't have to spend a lot of time harvesting or gardening. Of course, I have no idea what the motive of your buyer(s) was, but my conjecture seems more likely than yours.
  Again, I have no problem with your blocking whomever you choose, but I offer the thought that it is equally possible that, rather than blocking a greedy reseller, you blocked a cook who likes putting together meals as cheaply as possible and passing them on at reasonable prices to hungry lower-level glitchen who, of course, will gain more energy from the cooked meal than from the raw ingredients.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hawkwell | Permalink
- "If you're a high enough level to have the skills, there's 25 pigs outside. You can't be in such desperate need of 200-300 meat at a 'profit' of 1c each, so I chalk it up to greed."
  Greed? Pfff...
  Just fyi; meat is great for donations. Oh sure, I donated fruit beans and all that too, but meat is a great back-up for when you have tons of favor with the Giants and not enough fruit beans to max donate to them each game day.
  So, on my way to 60 I bought loads of cheap meat (on the auctions as towers weren't there yet and way more than 200-300)
  Silly me for thinking people would be happy to have their stuff sold and earn some currants.
  *shrug*
  Posted 4 months ago by WeavingTheWeb | Permalink
- If somebody is selling something at a price lower than I could sell it to the tool vendor for, and they haven't specifically asked me not to buy it, I'm absolutely not going to feel bad about buying it. There are certain mechanics in the game... different ones for different things... the tool vendor buying your items for a certain price is for the commerce aspect, whereas the "give" function, or item attachment in mail, or handing things to your butler to give to visitors, or the fact that items aren't all locked down to our home streets, etc, are for the generosity aspect.
  If there aren't notes, I'm going to assume that people don't want to travel to the tool vendor, or don't care and just want to sell their items quick, or can't be bothered to do some math, or whatever. I have watched very silly things happen with regards to the market in this game pre-towers and I assumed this was continuing that. I will be on the lookout for notes especially when I see certain prices but again, if they're not there, I will feel free to buy the things people have set in their towers to be purchased.
  Posted 4 months ago by diaveborn ♥ | Permalink
- I'd just like to note that if there were a "batch" selling option on SDBs, a lot of this angst would go away. I'd love to be able to sell things cheaply (one-at-a-time, one per customer per game day, for example).
  Posted 4 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- I've been using this thread to friend people who obviously love this game the same way I do. I will come visit you without worrying and you can come visit me without worrying!
  Posted 4 months ago by Persephone Pear | Permalink

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