Topic

Everyone has a side.

Let me get some things clear, with all of you. I am not a whiny person. I don't get upset over small things. The incident that happened has been changed so many times by one side's of the story, that I want to clear some things up.  

I haven't been playing the last few weeks, so I came back yesterday to talk of herbs. I went to the herb gardens to see if there were any empty spots. There were none. I went to leave. I saw a person come in, and say "Gimmie all you got." Then, "HEY HOMBRE. YOU GONNNA GIMME SHIT?" I said nothing. He then proceeded to take the herbs that people were waiting by, as soon as they popped up. Jerk move, but I still said nothing. Then he said "I'mma rape you all" 

At that point, I messaged him. We are both greeters, and I didn't feel that was they type of behavior we were supposed to represent. I * politely * told him it wasn't cool for him to say that kind of thing, and that it was sort of rude to take flowers from new players that were trying to do things. He responded with "And who are you?" And started telling me that he would say whatever he liked, and I was so "low". who was I to tell him that wasn't polite? He then announced in chat "GIVE NUTMEG EVERYTHING YOU HAVE OR SHE'LL HATE YOU." 

Please note, at this point, I have not planted, nor harvested a single thing. It wasn't about the plants. I wish I had saved the log of all the rude things he IM'ed to me, but I didn't, only the local chat. I blocked him, because he continued harassing me via IM. SEVERAL other players in the same street had a problem with the things he said (and things he did, which I know isn't agains the ToS) - if they all chose to report him, I have no clue. He is blaming me because I had the "nerve" to stand up to him (me being a low life and all.) 

He says: 
*Him* in reply to *other person* "Of course I always pushed the limits, it's my way of playing and adding to the game for everyone else. Someone needs to do it, and I do it in a way where I respect everyone, while acting out a crazy character everyone loves and hates. I've never changed here. My mistake was using a one line phrase of the English language that I should not have said. One mistake that lasted 1 moment of time on one map. They could have just asked me not to say that and I would have agreed respectfully and I'd understand, but because they were mad at my herb harvesting, they would take any excuse to get me out of the game, so reported me. It's as simple as that."57 mins ago 

It is NOT as simple as that. I. Do. Not. Care. About Herbs. If he wants to be known as a jerk, that's his problem. It's when he says inappropriate things that is the issue. He has not shown any remorse. He likened my issue to someone being afraid of the color yellow in another post. After originally claiming he had been hacked. I asked him not to say it, and he belittled it, and continued harassing me via IM. 

He made his own bed. To those of you who say I am being "too sensitive" about the situation, remove me from your friends list. If you know me, you know that I LOVE joking around, and am far from conservative. However, I don't put up with slurs or making light of situations that are not to be made light of. 

Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Jordy, I'm really not sure what you're talking about? Because I like Volkov and don't recall being mean to him? 
    Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was referring to laewren not you nutmeg.

    In fact I've not mentioned you since my apology with the exception of referencing my apology to you of course haha
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aye I like Volkov too. I may not always agree with him on some things but I like him very much! There are many players I don't always agree with but I respect them and treat them with respect. Calling someone ignorant and such is not respectful.

    Oops sorry about that. I must have been posting at the same time you were Jordy. But still it stands that calling someone ignorant is not respectful.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Definitely trombone time.
    Posted 12 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • but, flask! Your trombone is the only reason I keep up with trainwreck threads!

    Just to keep it on topic:

    In short, I support NutMeg and don't see this thread as a "pity party" in any way.

    I believe a player has a right to defend themselves against libel posted in the forums. Doing so in a separate thread rather than in the comments ensures that their response doesn't get lost in the slew of comments such that a new reader might see only the libel, and not the defense. It isn't about perpetuating controversy, it's about protecting reputation.

    A rape joke may not be "as bad" as sincerely threatening or perpetrating a rape, but it's still "bad." Brushing off rape jokes as "just jokes" contributes rape culture in the same way brushing off racial jokes as "just jokes" contributes to racism. Brushing off oppressive language as "just a joke" is a contributing factor to the continuing existence of oppressive cultural norms. In contrast, calling someone out for oppressive language is a  contributing factor to the dissolution of oppressive cultural norms. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pointing someone's ignorance out has nothing to do with respect...she just needs to be a little more informed is all.
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jordy, are you an alt?  There is a similarity between the linguistic stylings you employ and those of MM.
    Posted 12 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nope, I've read his postings now though...don't see the connection

    ...cute though
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sloppy, he's Christopher Marlowe's alt.
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lmao
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • rape culture... wow. do you really think we have a rape culture any where in civilized society. do you really think comments like these, or discussions like these, will lead to one?

    also, I don't think anyone is suggesting that NMBW 'just get over it.' we're saying that this forum isn't where you do that. do it in a group forum. do it with friends. don't air it on the public forum. i'm not saying this in a prohibitive manner either. feel free to post whatever you want on any public forum. what i am saying is that it is unwise to post something like this on the public forum. it is only going to make matters worse for you and for your enemy. the thing is, i suspect that's what NMBW wanted.

    that is, she doesn't mind bringing herself down so long as it brings MM down as well.

    discuss
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, Mr. Dawgg, there is a rape culture in this society.  And yes, rape jokes encourage people to continue to rape women.  

    Reread this post for more information
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Meg, I'm with you all the way, but I think it's time...

    *starts lineup for trombone parade*
    Posted 12 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I suppose you think I wouldn't step in to stop a rape either, WindBorn. That's absurd. The reason why the word 'rape' wasn't used was because true (edit: replace true with violent. i meant to distinguish non violent and violent rape by saying true) rape isn't as common as that post suggests. One where someone literally kidnaps a woman and violently attacks her.

    I'd like to see the exact survey used so that they could get the 6% of 'college aged' men. Because a very small percentage from a badly written survey constitutes that we do in fact have a rape culture...
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hypothetical here.
    Not trying to start anything.
    If rape is uncomfortable to talk about..
    Why is it being discussed in a open forum.. On the Internet?
    Just weird..
    inb4 trying to warn people about rape. Or MM.
    He's suspended. And we all know it's out there.
    -Realized this just now.-
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Time for bed, children.
    Posted 12 months ago by Black Francis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mr. Dawgg:
    because true rape isn't as common as that post suggests. One where someone literally kidnaps a woman and violently attacks her


    Wait. So are you implying that when a woman has been forced into sex when she did not consent, but wasn't kidnapped or violently attacked, it isn't "true rape"?

    Wow. No.

    I'm not even going to say women, since I'm perfectly aware it happens to men too, so PEOPLE who are raped and feel they were raped, were raped. End of story. There are no special circumstances to make it "true rape" - it doesn't matter if it was violent or not, it doesn't matter if they were married, it doesn't matter if the person didn't fight back. If that person did not give their consent, it is rape.
    Posted 12 months ago by Myuki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "true rape"

    Uh huh
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I smell troll meat.  Ungh.
    Posted 12 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let's not call it true rape, but clear-cut violent crime rape. The thing is, they had to write that survey in such a way that they could include as many potential college age males as possible. That was my point.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "true rape."

    Oh my god. Seriously?

    For one, yes, "true rape," by your odious definition, is actually very common. Common enough that I can personally name about a dozen of my personal, I-know-them-in-real-life friends it's happened to. The fact that the victim will be violated all over again by the "justice" system means up to 60% of rapes are not reported. 

    For two, rape is rape. There's no "true rape" and "not really rape rape." Crap statements like this very much prove that we live in a rape culture. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Epilady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am on Myuki's side here. Rape is rape. No matter if your out at a party and got drunk and someone took advantage of that. Rape is rape if a wife/husband did not consent to it. Rape does not always consist of broken bones, bloodied lips, or blackened eyes or being kidnapped. It DOES consist of psychological trauma however to the victim.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types...
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i like how you say rape is rape then show me that there are different types of rape via wikipedia.

    i never said that other types of rape were not rape. but this notion that we live in a barbaric society that thinks rape is ok... well that's just absurd. do you guys really think that.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "True rape" is when a person does not want to have sex, but somehow they are forced to do so anyway.  It does not require a stranger or kidnapping.  It does not require other physical violence.  Someone could be drugged, unconscious, asleep, or otherwise incapacitated -- all states in which it is literally impossible to consent to something.  Someone could change their mind and say, "No, I want to stop."  Those things are rape, full stop. This is repeatedly established in laws on the subject, and I therefore have no qualms or hesitation about my next statement.  Mr. Dawgg, you are stating things as fact that are 100% untrue.  Knock it off and stop trolling.

    Volkov, it's important to talk about uncomfortable things sometimes.  Part of what makes it easier for rapists to keep raping people is the shame that rape survivors feel and the vast numbers of people that tell them that they shouldn't talk about it.  The more rape survivors are willing to stand up and say, "I was raped, and I refuse to feel ashamed," the more we help others feel less ashamed, and maybe more able to step forward and stop the rapists that go unreported.

    To further prove my point in that, I shall briefly resurrect an old meme.  A quote from the original: "I wondered for a moment what it would look like if just for one day, everyone who had survived sexual violence were visible as a survivor, if we could actually see the extent of it, if we could all know just how very not-alone we are. I wondered how angry and sad it would make me to know. I wondered how much power there might be in the truth."  I participated in this when it first made it around, and it seems it's time to do so again. The closing lines sum up well why this is discussed openly.  The other super important part from the original is, "This is about being public in regard to something that is normally kept a very big, very dark secret, thus ensuring that we can all pretend that This Sort Of Thing Doesn't Happen To People Like You And Me. It does happen to people like you and me. Trust me, I know."

    I'm Magic Monkey. I'm a survivor of sexual violence. No pity. No shame. No silence.
    Posted 12 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg, you already proved we live in a culture that thinks rape is okay by the following: "true rape isn't as common as that post suggests. One where someone literally kidnaps a woman and violently attacks her."  In that, you are stating that rape that does not involve kidnapping and overt physical violence isn't "real" and is therefore okay.  News flash: you're wrong, and you're not alone in being wrong.  This is what people are fighting against.

    Edit: They didn't "word it in [a special] way" to make that survey trap people.  They used the legal definitions of rape.
    Posted 12 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "this notion that we live in a barbaric society that thinks rape is ok... well that's just absurd."

    And yet here you are, justifying and denying and minimizing rape like there's no tomorrow. You seem to think it's perfectly fine to be raped unless the victim is snatched off the street by a perfect stranger and slapped around, maybe killed....or you wouldn't be trolling like this. Sounds pretty barbaric to me.
    Posted 12 months ago by Epilady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Look I took back the 'true rape' thing. I said what I meant in another post. There are shades of gray in everything. I am not attacking rape or condoning rape in general. I am attacking that stupid article they posted that doesn't even have the survey b/c it 404s. That's what I was talking about.

    I don't think rape is as widespread as you guys think that it is. I don't think using the word rape online while playing games constitutes a rape culture. That's it. I don't think non-violent rape is OK. It's just that it's not as bad as violent rape. You guys would disagree saying that it is what it is and that there are no shades of gray. I'm a gray area type of person, and I tend to think that some things should be measured in degrees. In this case, violent rape is far worse than other less violent types of rape.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Keep digging that hole.
    Posted 12 months ago by Epilady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm WindBorn, and I'm a survivor of sexual violence.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Magic Monkey, I'm glad you can say that with confidence. But I'm not sure that statistic has any validity til I see the survey. Even if it's true, 6% of one group of people (college males) means that we do in fact have a rape culture? I don't know. I don't buy it.

    It's like saying because we have 2% of people in America that are gay that we have a homosexual culture.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have so much I need to say- I'm on my way home from the gym, but it all has to be said...thank you all for the things you've posted.
    Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Same Magic I am a survivor of sexual violence as well and appalled that anyone thinks it is funny or joke about it. Mr. Dawgg you may not think that rape is not all that common but it is more common than you think. Many victims never report it due to the social stigma, the shame and embarrassment of even acknowledging being sexually assaulted. If it goes to court the victim is further victimized in many cases and it makes it even more traumatic, hence why it is not reported often enough.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm Olive IRL, and I am a survivor of sexual violence.
    Posted 12 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mr Dawgg: I've learned that engaging with you philosophically and ethically is not worthwhile. Instead I'll engage with you pedantically:

    It's not how the questions were written, it's how participants were selected. 99% of peer-reviewed, published studies will discuss how participants were selected and how bias/confounding variables were controlled for in a methodology section preceding the results. That's not to say shoddy studies don't happen, but they're usually easy to spot. By not having a methodology section, for instance. 

    Arguing against statistics because they don't "feel right" isn't productive. If you disagree with the quoted statistics, how about finding a different study that backs up your claim?

    Here's an interesting aggregate view of rape myth studies (rape culture is as much --or perhaps even more-- about rape myth as it is actual rape incidents), with a few cited sources for rape statistics:

    http://474miranairresearchpaper.wmwikis.net/file/view/metaanalysisstopblamingvictim.pdf
    Posted 12 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All rapes are violent, whether or not other physical violence is involved.

    Here are all the stats you could want: http://www.rainn.org/statistics -- quickest: 60% of sexual violence is unreported.  15 out of every 16 rapists never spend a single day in jail.  2 out of 3 rapists are someone the victim knows.  More than 1 out of 3 are a friend or close acquaintance. 

    I'll have more to say in a bit.
    Posted 12 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • www.derailingfordummies.com...

    www.derailingfordummies.com...

    When a little over half the women I know (and a fair percentage of men) have experienced sexual violence at some point in their lives...I'm gonna call that "common" and "part of the culture." The fact that you're clinging to statistics and studies, rather than listening to multiple people tell you their personal lived experience, is part of rape culture. The fact that you place rapes on some hierarchy of okayness based on physical violence and whether the rapist knows the victim is part of rape culture. The fact that you think hearing "I'ma rape you all" wouldn't traumatize a rape survivor because "it's only the internet" is part of rape culture. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Epilady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not trying to be insensitive. If I was, I apologize.

    Let me put a little clarification here. I don't trust statistics unless I see how that statistic was produced. In this case, not only is that survey data not available, but the article link is broken. So, in my opinion, any conclusion that article draws is invalid.

    Also, I am not completely unaware of the problems of objectifying women. Two of my favorite shows to watch on YouTube are The Alyona Show and the Young Turks. Both have female hosts who are pretty. But, they do not overtly sexualize themselves in any way. They dress and act professionally. Yet the comments sections are riddled with comments about how they look. That to me is egregiously wrong. It's not fair to the hosts to be treated like that. I don't even like using the word 'hot' to describe every woman who happens to be wearing makeup and/or otherwise taking care of herself.

    Furthermore, it could be a matter of exposure. I am not exposed to the perceived rape culture that you all are living in. So maybe I live in a bubble that completely lacks these elements.  I guess I'll just have to enjoy the rape cultureless part of the world I live in while trying to be conscious of the rapefilled cultures that are out there.

    I am done with this thread and I wish you all the best in your quests to secure peace in your lives. You have my best wishes.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aw, Epilady, you beat me to those links!  I've got one more though -- you forgot the "it's only the internet" one, it seems like it's also pertinent.

    Next up: an article with peer-reviewed citations (I don't know about the article itself) that explains exactly why all types of rape are equally bad: http://www.aaets.org/arts/art13.htm

    Especially relevant quote time! "Research has indicated that the survivors of acquaintance rape report similar levels of depression, anxiety, complications in subsequent relationships, and difficulty attaining pre-rape levels of sexual satisfaction to what survivors of stranger rape report (Koss & Dinero, 1988). What may make coping more difficult for victims of acquaintance rape is a failure of others to recognize that the emotional impact is just as serious."

    There is no "worse" kind of rape.  Rates of post-traumatic stress disorder are also equivalent. Now then, if you want to know more, you can look it up yourself too.  We don't exist to do your research for you or solely to challenge your paradigms.  The only reason I'm even bothering is because I anyone who finds this thread to come away with a very clear understanding that we're not tolerant of false assertions or marginalization here. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I know that MM was very drunk when he said what he said.  I know he was still very drunk when he made those forum posts.  And, yes, what MM did was wrong...very very wrong.  He should apologize and hasnt, however TS has taken care of it.  It is in their hands. They responded appropriately.

    I have to say that I too, am a rape victim, as well as a survivor of sexual/physical child abuse. What he said offends me, too...yet this thread has gone down a road that was not needed, and has created tension where there should not have been any.  It brought the trollsin and instead of them being ignored, have been fed.

    Seriously, this thread should just be locked. (just my opinion)
    Posted 12 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm looking at the article right now. Maybe try copy-pasting rather than clicking the link? Here's the citation, if you have access to any journal databases (I found it in Sage, but it may be indexed elsewhere):

    Stop Blaming the Victim: A Meta-Analysis on Rape Myths

    Eliana Suarez and Tahany M. Gadalla
    DOI: 10.1177/0886260509354503

    J Interpers Violence 2010 25: 2010 originally published online 11 January 2010
    Eliana Suarez and Tahany M. Gadalla
    jiv.sagepub.com/content/25/...
    Posted 12 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg if you truly have not been "exposed" in any shape or form your a very lucky person however you don't KNOW if anyone your close to has not told you. You might be surprised actually. Many victims of sexual assault DON'T talk about it. But I wish you well and hope you never do have to have it slap you in the face someday.. the chances are, you will.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, we've got "I don't believe you" and "but it's true" too?  Do I get to call bingo now?
    Posted 12 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I know that MM was very drunk when he said what he said.  I know he was still very drunk when he made those forum posts."
    That does not excuse his behavior it actually compounds it and I do realize your not making excuses for him. He does owe an apology for not only what he said but what he did. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • First off- to those of you who have shown me support, and so eloquently said the things I so badly needed to sa, thank you. So, so much. Those of you that are posting that you are survivors: Thank you. I am one of the statistical people that sadly, didn't report my rape. I have to live with the guilt of that. It's very possible that because I said nothing, he did it to another person. I was ashamed, and felt like "maybe it wasn't really rape" because I had a few drinks and was consenting in the start. I was too ashamed to report it. I felt like that type of thing didn't happen to women "like me." Instead, I covered the bruises with makeup, and went about my life. Until I realized that if someone didn't stand up for the awareness, more people would feel the same way I did. 

    "i am saying is that it is unwise to post something like this on the public forum. it is only going to make matters worse for you and for your enemy. the thing is, i suspect that's what NMBW wanted. 
    that is, she doesn't mind bringing herself down so long as it brings MM down as well.discuss"

    This makes me SO sad. I am NOT that kind of person. The ONLY reason I posted ANYTHING was because my name was being drug through the dirt....after that, I was on defense. I'm not trying to "cause drama", or "start a pity party". I'm also not using Glitch as my counseling service - I was thinking of others who may not have recovered to the point I have.

    I was actually shocked at the way MM talked to me when I asked him to consider others feelings using that word, because I felt we were actually friends. Even more so when he compared rape to being afraid of the color yellow....So no, I was in NO way trying to harm ANY one. I never asked for him to be banned, I never said ANYTHING hateful about him.

    I don't consider him my enemy, I consider lack of awareness, shame, and rape to be the enemy.
    Posted 12 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well said nutmeg
    Posted 12 months ago by JordyChrist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Casombra, I in no way at all consider that an excuse. I was just merely stating a fact. That's all.  I knew he was drunk because he IM'd me telling me how drunk he was. (Thank you for knowing that I was not trying to make excuses for him :) )
    Posted 12 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And I think it should be left at that.
    Posted 12 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
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