Topic

Glitch: Too estrogen driven to attract male players?

So, I'm a 35 year old guy with a wife and kids who was invited to play this game several weeks ago by someone at Tiny Speck. I immediately found the game to be fun enough to play as a casual experience, but I honestly have been losing interest as quickly as I progress due to the feeling that it has little or no appeal for males to play.

Glitch has a lot of potential for many kinds of people, but I honestly feel it is focusing in on the 10 to 30-something female, thus limiting its appear to the other gender ENTIRELY. If I hung my masculinity on the wall and just played Glitch, I could easily spend hours of having endless fun with this game, but I am all too often reminded of how this game is NOT geared for men. Whats more, even my wife laughed when she saw me playing this during the EOTW party, asking if I was going homo on her.

So, while I could cite several examples of how this game personally makes me unattracted to it, I'll just offer the following obvious examples as seen while visiting the site:

1) Pastels, everywhere!
Is this really necessary right down to character customization? I mean come on, this is fine in San Francisco and NYC, but as stated before: No appeal for the manly figure.

Perhaps a customizable skin chooser for the game's frame, a set of "REI-like" clothing choices and less effeminate choices would help. The awards are atrociously gag-worthy... pink buttons for planting beans or cooking... lovely: beta.glitch.com/achievements/

2) Subscribers are designated as pink hearts.
Most men (who prefer women) would not be comfortable with this and I doubt that they would buy a membership strictly because of it.

Almost anything at this point would be preferable, seriously. You can go to the grocery store and watch many men pass up on purchasing products that offer immediate donations to breast cancer. It has nothing with support the cause and everything to do with the fact that it's a pink ribbon.

3) Characters, while cartoony, lack any wardrobe or vanity customizations that would be considered masculine in ANY way.
From feathers to MORE pastels to kilts and pumps, I see nothing here created by a straight male.

Simply have a man make some shirts with sports, trucks or booze on them... add basic sneekers and steal toe boots... might help just a *wee-bit*.
 
Bash me if you will, but I am not trying to say the game sucks as much as I am trying to offer constructive criticism as to why this game will lack male players, especially ones whom have insecurities about maintaining their masculinity (which is a majority of men). If you note, I am also trying to offer suggestions to make it more appealing to the potential male players out there.

Posted 17 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Oh, Nyx! I read the OP so many times and yet I never quite caught all of that line.  Specifically, I missed the "...have a man make some shirts..." Thank you for pointing it out, I'd hate to have missed the best part of the bigoted diatribe.  (Obviously, butch lesbian would never do, lesbians are women and Real Men can't like things that women make!  It would have estrogen all over it!  And girl cooties!)
    Posted 17 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Go Stoot!

    I am not a number ( or in this case a stereotype). There's option there for everyone surely. Room for every-glitch.
    Posted 17 months ago by Twoodle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All I can say is thank Spriggen and Humbaba (just trying to gain a little extra favor here) that "the world of this game lacks sufficient signifiers or emblems of contemporary ritualized non-gay male-ness to either re-assure yourself or those around you that you are not doing something gay". And also that the same seems to apply to ritualized non-gay female-ness.

    I did find the original post offensive in tone. Thank you to all the posters who already explained so eloquently why.
    Posted 17 months ago by crowdedsky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been married and have 3 adult children but i don't see myself fitting into any specific definition of gender or orientation. Variety is the spice of life.
    I consider myself a dedicated gamer; specifically MMO's , and have played almost everything that's come out in the last 8 years.  One of the things I appreciated in this game was the LACK of evident gender orientation.  A Glitchen is neutral, you don't have to choose if it's male or female - loved that!
    As someone who's worked in this field, the OP has a valid point of view of the gaming system and how it works - but wow - did he word it badly! *sigh*
    I think the idea nearest to what he was suggesting would be The Sims - a little of something for everyone - but I'd hate that - it would remove all the magic. 
    The 'reality' that would come with strongly defined 'masculine' and 'feminine' aspects of the game would remove the wonder, the beauty, the humour and the surreal atmosphere that makes it so special. 
    I'm glad to know it's not going in that direction :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Zira Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, your "(I mean, just by definition, gay men hold "manliness' in pretty high regard)." nearly made me spit my tea all over my computer.  LOL.
    Posted 17 months ago by larky lion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ stoot: "We do this partially because it is a more satisfying way to work and partly because we think it makes good business sense: we want to make something "strongly flavored" and not try to water it down with the hope of broadening its appeal because we'd rather have players who really like it, even if their numbers are smaller."

    Right on, stoot! This corporate philosophy reminds me of why I bought my first MacIntosh computer back in the 80s----and then stock in the company a few years later at $26.64 a share. I have a real good feeling about Tiny Speck too.......
    Posted 17 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to Magic monkey, vortexae, Jennyanydots, and Stoot!

    "The game should have either A) More neutrality or B) More inclusion. Otherwise it becomes a manner of several people, particularly males wanting to have more male identity, feeling left out." Well, A) Faunasphere was very "neutral" and it didn't survive B) There is plenty of "inclusion" (which apparently only applies to men, excuse me straight men) in other games out there. For a very long time, my only choices for online gaming were hyper-sexualized battling games and cutesie games that offered no challenges. I applaud Tiny Speck for offering something that is unique and for just wanting to appeal to "people who want to play it."

    I also dressed my character in some clothes that might be considered masculine: I'm wearing a shirt and tie, black slacks, and black converses. (The pigtails are staying because I am a woman and I like being a woman. My other character likes to wear tutus and halter tops.) Just wanted to point out that there are "manly" options out there...er, in there. Peace out.
    Posted 17 months ago by lovintnt Subscriber! | Permalink
  • hehe..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&ob=av3e
    Posted 17 months ago by Aero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wait, what? Are you freaking serious? Pink subscriber hearts, OH NOES!

    And in conclusion, OCTOPUS HAT - male or female?
    Posted 17 months ago by Lilypad Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lilypad -- YES!  XD
    Posted 17 months ago by g33kgurrl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I look at Glitch in terms of it being a game/game world that I enjoy being in, a concept that has enormous potential. Does it need more 'manly' things? IMHO, no, it doesn't - and if this is the OP's 'opinion,' then mine is equally valid. I get my dose of 'manly' things in the real world, usually negative behaviors, aggressive behaviors.

    Glitch is a place I can just play. I'm cool with that.
    Posted 17 months ago by TK-855 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What a homofobic speech, my husband would never think anything like that. 
    The game looks well designed and different, its good not bad.
    If someone wants to feel extremely male they can go and play the good old Leisure Suit Larry.
    XOXO
    Posted 17 months ago by Helvetika Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lilypad: Do you mean "Is the octopus hat FOR males or females" or "Is the octopus hat ITSELF male or female?"

    I had my Stanley until my free subscription ran out (before I had monies to buy one *sob*), and I'm a she. Stanley has not identified (to me, anyway) as any particular gender, but IME octopi are pretty quiet anyway.
    Posted 17 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +10,000 good troll post
    Posted 17 months ago by naitPee Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is the thread that never ends.

    It goes on and on my friends. 

    Some people started responding to it, not knowing what it was

    Now we'll be responding to it forever just because
    Posted 17 months ago by g33kgurrl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Men in kilts are sexy..................period.
    Posted 17 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some valid points; true, there are a lot of pastel colors, and yes the symbol of subscription is indeed a heart. However, why would you need to "hang up" your masculinity to play a game that you otherwise find very enjoyable? I feel like some self-improvement maybe needs to happen here!

    Perhaps you (and all other men who feel the same way) should relax about the importance of your masculinity and just enjoy the awesome game. It doesn't need to be sufficiently manly to be fun. The "girlish" features you mentioned are all part of Glitch's charm; tone down the macho and just have a good time!
    Posted 17 months ago by Alexah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Did you say "period?" Oh lord spare me from all this awful estrogennnnngh!
    Posted 17 months ago by naitPee Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I LOVE YOU STOOT!!!!
    Posted 17 months ago by Lung Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot: if you play Glitch, you are spending some time away from doing things which help prove that you are not gay. Yet surely even the most insecure need a break sometimes ;)

    oh i laughed my guts out! 

    c0mad0r, as a married straight man, i need to side with most people who found your post irritating and unthoughtful at best, homophobic and aggressive at worst. To me, it is somewhere in between.

    As for the theory, I believe 'neutrality' in gender terms is not a reasonable expectation. This is especially so if what you mean by 'neutrality' is the reproduction of certain exclusionary gender norms that we already suffer immensely from in our everyday lives, whether you are straight or queer, whether it is RL or the internet. I applaud Tiny Speck for opting for the counter-intuitive yet powerful decision of, for instance, not making characters choose sex, or not limiting selection of clothing to sexes. 

    And, lol, I had not heard of QUILTBAG before... What's wrong with LGBT?
    Posted 17 months ago by Sublimie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Indeed, QUILTBAG seems to cover almost every possibility except "gender-normative heterosexual". Why not just throw those guys in too, so they feel included?
    Posted 17 months ago by Lilypad Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One thing I've found about this game is how unisex it is (in a good way.) It reminds me a lot of Little Big Planet. I like how you can dress how you like, and everything is available to everyone. I also LOVE the humor, I've never come across a game that has the same humor as I do. I also haven't once noticed that this game was geared more to woman. I always saw it as geared to everyone, young, old, female, male. I like how the avatars all have the same shape, yet it's very easy to tell if someone is male or female. I've never had that problem, the wardrobe is geared towards a lot of audiences. This game is also still in beta and many things are sure to be added. As I like to say, if you don't like it then stop bitching and enjoy the game :P. In the end you're just ruining it for everyone else. Just my 2 cents ;).
    Posted 17 months ago by Harvey Dent Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "...if you don't like it then don't play and stop bitching. In the end you're just ruining it for everyone else."

    I would conversely hope that people who are testing and who don't like some aspect of it would continue to voice their concerns, so the devs can hear all sides of various issues and decide which comments hint of something they'd like to evaluate or address, so their game can have broader appeal (if that's in fact what they want).

    I would also hope that those who voice something unpopular are not beaten to a pulp. That's a sure way to drive any dissension out of the population, and possibly lose valid perspectives on issues.
    Posted 17 months ago by Eleanor Rigby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I, for one, am so dang glad that Glitch is estrogen-driven. It means I won't need to worry about HRT in a few years. I can just log in and ahhhhhhhhhh estrogen!!!

    XD
    Posted 17 months ago by g33kgurrl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol, g33k.
    Posted 17 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ...if you don't like it then don't play and stop bitching. In the end you're just ruining it for everyone else."

    Oof. I have not chimed into this thread all day... but the "Love it or leave it" argument is not super helpful (usually). I mean, I seriously disagreed with the basic premise of the original idea here, but I would never tell someone to not play and that they "ruining it for everyone else." 

    Everyone else has the option of not listening/reading the thread. Star Wars I-III did not ruin Star Wars IV-VI for me. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Innie "All the lassies say "Hello" ...."
    Posted 17 months ago by Ancient Princess Subscriber! | Permalink
  • hehe, okay let me rephrase what I said.. :P
    Posted 17 months ago by Harvey Dent Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WHY can't we put pictures directly into threads?!?! 

    This is important! 

    http://tinyurl.com/3tpdxm9

    ;)
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I lost track about who was on which side or upset about what.

    I suggest to everyone to read the forum when you're very tired. I am quite tired and didn't see a deliberate attempt/insult in the first post. (except for the part about who did the designing)
    Sure, he worded it strongly and clumsy, but posts later he explained more.

    People take offence so easily. I like what Stoot said: think of innocent, naieve, positive reasons a person has to post the way he/she posts.

    Oh and I find this thread rather hilarious, with all the attempts to stop the discussion and give hugs. And then I see person A arguing with B while I thought A and B where on the same side. I lost track.
    The thread was somewhat amusing. And I learned some about the characters of people (also of their lives, but that is less relevant to me.)

    Now the discussion is over. I read 99% of the thread, and hope the person who posts after me does too and stops to think before posting instead of posting in a "fit of rage". It's been said, been done, it's time to kiss and make up.

    *GROUPHUG*  (although I'm not sure I should mention grouphugs in a thread which has mentioned Quiltbags.. I didn't look up the meaning but I'm think I got a quite good idea...)
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok, I haven't read every single comment but I've read many and I think that the reason this post was so upsetting is because a lot of people here have had hurt feelings surrounding this topic.  I know the OP did not mean any harm by what he said, but once we take into account other peoples experiences (ex: Stri having rocks thrown at him, Cerulean seems to have faced significant discrimination) we can see how this could upset some people.

    I would urge everyone who was upset by this to realize the OP did not mean to hurt your feelings.  Not that it's not ok to be upset, but getting your blood pressure up and harboring negative feelings is unhealthy!!  Just out of concern for everyones hearts, I would hope that people are either a) not as worked up as they appear to be or b) has taken a minute to calm themselves down.  If something does offend you, it is usually best to take a few minutes to calm yourself down because I truly believe it is unhealthy to let yourself get so upset about things!
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *hugs Laurali*  Great response :)

    (By the way, I love all QUILTBAGS, and non-QUILTBAGS equally...hahahahah)
    Posted 17 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Now for the next part, it's really unfair how biased the players in this game can be.  When I mentioned something about being attracted to football players in Global Chat, I was treated with jeers and jokes and comments about how athletes are stupid and missing brain cells and there have been studies proving athletes are stupid, etc, etc.  Then when I mentioned I was a cheerleader I was made fun of by multiple people and someone even told me its best that I not mention I was a cheerleader when I meet people because they will think I am stupid.

    As long as the derogatory comments made are about football players or cheerleaders, its ok, but if its about *unmanly* or *gay* men or something that personally offends certain players in the game, then it is a HUGE problem.

    This game caters to a specific type of person, I would use the word "indy" because it's the best word I can think of.  But I am not like that, I am a preppy girl through and through, and I hate how it was ok for everyone to give me shit about who I like or what I chose for myself but as soon as the more "indy" type players get offended, its a huge deal.  It's quite unfair.
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I 110% agree with what Laurali said (Well, except I'm not "preppy" ;) ).......

    And btw- I was a cheerleader my senior year of high school, and I found that 90% of the ideas people have about cheerleaders are totally wrong....  
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Laurali....people with small minds  need to ridicule others.   My mother always said, "  Consider the source."    Feel sorry for someone who tries to make you feel bad.  It is a sign they are not at peace with themselves and get their jollies being mean...     Look at the popularity of the teenage "Mean Girls" flics....sad.
    With age comes wisdom, hopefuly, and tolerance and understanding.  Turn the other cheek...
    Do not let another person make you unhappy and if they do, try to move on.  LIfe is too short to harbour   sadness and   to  feel  like crap. 
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just want people to realize that the sentiment of the OP's post is spot on.  This game caters to the offbeat, but often the players or content can be unappealing to the more nonoffbeat players.  The clothing options have gotten much better since I've joined, but I can COMPLETELY understand what the OP means about the game not appealing to certain players who could be considered "mainstream".

    EDIT: I love you NutMeg!
    Posted 17 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Laurali: What happened to you isn't okay, either. Stereotypes are bad. :(
    Posted 17 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm laughing at the absurdity of the original post. Who cares? Because video gaming isn't male-oriented enough, right? Hahahahaha! If this is too girly for you, there is literally EVERY OTHER GAME IN THE WORLD.
    Posted 17 months ago by Heyoheya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Good point c0mad0r. There is many stereotypes about "stereotypical male" in discussion but thats not change value of your observation. +1 for topic.
    Posted 17 months ago by Leons Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ cDmadDr you can please some of the people some of the time but you can not please all the people all the time. That is why cars are painted different colors. Kudos to the dev's for all their hard work, I feel honored to be a tester. You could subscribe and that opens up many more options for the more macho look for an avatar.
    Posted 17 months ago by celticlady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I know I'm coming in at the tail end of this and I guess it's all been said, but what the heck, I'll weigh in anyway.

    I think the saddest--and most telling--thing about the original post is the spouse's "homo" comment to him. 

    To state the obvious: We all bring who we are to whatever we do. That includes our sensitivities, prejudices and insecurities (but it doesn't mean we can't grow beyond them).

    Glitch is free-wheeling, rather anarchic and framed around sly humor. Hardly a setting for RL labels, identity politics or imposed conformity.

    I love the way Stoot summed it up:
    "If I had to pick one attribute of players that I'd hope Glitch would appeal to, it wouldn't be based on gender or age or geography — it'd be based on intelligence or curiosity or creativity or something along those lines (again, both because that's what I'd rather make and because I think there is a lot more opportunity to build something successful)."
    Posted 17 months ago by ElleD Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Laurali - you got teased about being a cheerleader. I know popular media has painted them as airheads. Unfortunately, there is a basis for the stereotype. I remember a former fiancée of mine who was a UMR alumni who complained about the girls who only went for there "MRS" degrees. I think you know the type. Sadly, this is has also been the type who are often attracted to cheerleading squads because of its glamorous image. Ignoring the reality of the hard work, creativity, planning and practice that generates the better results. In my school I was on my wrestling, track and cross-country teams and most of the cheerleaders and drill team (our drill team competed in collegiate events) were honors students. But mine was a nationally ranked prep school.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This quote makes me <3 Stoot and this game so much more, and I don't think I could have asked for a better description of who I'd like a game filled full of people to be like: 

    "If I had to pick one attribute of players that I'd hope Glitch would appeal to, it wouldn't be based on gender or age or geography — it'd be based on intelligence or curiosity or creativity or something along those lines (again, both because that's what I'd rather make and because I think there is a lot more opportunity to build something successful)."

    Ok, Tiny Speck - you've made me love you guys even more! 
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm a guy.
    I play glitch a lot.
    My glitch is female and I enjoy dressing her up.
    I played SWG and ran a very profitable and popular fashion boutique.
    I married a cheerleader (Who helped me get through college level Calculus 1, 2, and 3.)
    I enjoy hetero and lesbian porn.
    I fix my own car, do most of the house repairs, and drink beer.

    So take me as some kind of statistic and file that away someplace the next time you're wondering if Glitch is a female-only game.
    Posted 17 months ago by Vicereine Linnæa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @c0mad0r: you realize you can never take your cupcake hat off now. ;)

    (((everyone)))
    Posted 17 months ago by Widdershins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can I get an All Thing Considered music box?
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Negative ghostrider, the pattern is full.
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have just spent the better part of this evening reading these posts,and what is rather amusing to me,is my own perception of these issues,for example -how I perceive my fellow Glitches.
    Like a good little human,I immediately think of the Glitches I meet as either male or female,and (initially) think of the players 'behind' each Glitch as being of the same gender as their Glitch,and for the most part that is just the way it is ~I don't think about it any further.
    How does my (or anyone's) subconscious make this initial decision? Well,it's because that is what the world I/we grew up in taught me/us: Boys have boy's names,girls have names for girls (with plenty of exceptions of course); boys blue,girls pink; boys play with toy cars,girls with dolls; boys wear trousers,girls wear skirts; etcetcetc...
    ..but times are a changing,and not just in the way we categorize and understand our world,but by questioning the need to categorize before we understand our world...and that brings me to this question: What does it matter of which gender,gender/sexual orientation a person is when playing an on-line game? Precious little I would say...and then I find myself laughing at my own amazement when I find that someone I thought of as female is actually a man,and another person I was convinced was male,says she is female...hmmm,
    I must surmise, A) it's not just names,clothes and gadgets we use to create the labels 'male or female',but also how a person talks, acts,and even thinks (which here is evident in what people post);
    B) the learned perceptions we use in RL are inadequate when on-line;
    C) ultimately a person's gender/orientation is completely irrelevant to actual game play,and that alone should be reason enough to not post derogatory notions.
    D) if we worry that our friends might think less of us,just because we like something that doesn't conform to their main stream ideology,then perhaps we have the wrong friends.

    If you enjoy playing Glitch,then support it and play wholeheartedly. =]
    Posted 17 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • you all do realize that the OP hasn't posted in 18 hours, right? I think he got the message. the fact that this thread is still going is really just sad. stoot showed up and gave two wonderful, well thought out statements that rang very true (for me at least), and I'm happy with that.

    Please, please stop feeding the monster. find something else to discuss. anything. I like cats. I hate dog people. discuss :P
    Posted 17 months ago by bored no more Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I ain't got time to bleed.
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink