Topic

Will "premium" Glitch be subscription, or pay for specific content, or both?

Just wondering if the plans for premium content in Glitch are slated to be subscription-based, or pay-as-you-go for specific content? Personally, I would prefer the latter, as it would make the resulting world much more varied.

Perhaps it will be a combination of both? For example, I'd rather pay for a permanent expansion of a Bigger Bag's storage capacity by 4 slots for $5 US, than pay $19.95 / mo for all subscribers to have *all* of the premium content unlocked - most of which many players would never use. Pay as you go would also eventually allow the purchase and use of Glitch "Currancy" in the form of game cards that could be physically bought and gifted...

I'm also hoping that any premium content wont significantly hobble a "free" player by giving premium subscribers significant permanent advantages to game-play, say something like make a Patch instantly re-spawn, rather than wait the full 10 minutes. I think stuff like making any buffs last twice as long would be OK, as it really doesn't effect the game play of others; in the instance of a High Jumper buff for a subscriber that lasts twice as long as a free player, the result could be replicated by a free player just by activating another Spinach. Something like "Remote Mining" would suck for free players if only subscribers had the Skill - unless it could be purchased 1-time in a pay-as-you-go scheme and last for 90 days or something.

Of course, things beyond game-play such as "tweaked" messaging options, *@Glitch.com email accounts, etc., in Glitch would be a factor to the Subscriber vs. pay-for-specific-content schemes as well.

Sorry for the rambling. I'm just curious, and I really don't see this subject directly addressed here in alpha-land, or publicly out there in all the Glitch mentions and interviews that have been done in the past year or so. I need to start saving my pennies.

Posted 22 months ago by Yeoman Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • i'd much rather see a flat subscription than pay per content.

    mostly because i want to focus on the elaborately structured world without constantly thinking about my pocketbook.

    having dollar signs and pay as you go shopping carts would continuously counter a sort of suspension of disbelief and sense of wonder that glitch seems to want to cultivate.

    it could also lead to some serious "irl" wealth flaunting situations. with subscriptions, players would be on roughly the same footing. i think that's probably better for community.

    bear in mind that even if you aren't using a particular item, you are still paying for it's creation through purchasing some other item. since these aren't physical goods, the idea that you're wasting money if you aren't using all the paid content available to you is purely psychological.

    i get the idea that pay per content could possibly provide staff a strong incentive for constantly creating new *stuff* for the game .. but i think their natural creative urges should take care of that, and having a payment model not focused on paying for discrete content might free them up to work on developing aspects of the game that might not be obviously purchasable.
    Posted 22 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think K.I.S.S. always works best for premium content in online games & even consoles. I mean who prefers Microsoft Points verses normal money on PS3? And what the hell is Farmville cash, verses coins? :S Just keep it simple, Tiny Speck! Players can either play free, or subscribe for *all* extra content. Paying players won't like to fork out extra for costumes because they already give you their money... and what if they spend money on costumes beforehand, then decide to switch to subscription? They've wasted their money = unhappy!
    Posted 22 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I bet it'll be a mix of subscription and pay per.
    Posted 22 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with striatic...
    Pay per content can be a real game killer sometimes...
    I would totally pay for a monthly subscription. I would hesitate to pay for specific items or skills. Time spent to evaluate which object I'm ready to pay for is not fun game time for me.
    Posted 22 months ago by Moumoushou Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ^ Agreed! That's what I was trying to sum up... I kinda failed ;)
    Posted 22 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No no, I understood and agreed with you too. It's very clear.
    Should've said "I agree with striatic & Hburger". ^^
    Posted 22 months ago by Moumoushou Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We don't have any plans to have people pay for "content" in the sense that I think everyone means here: you won't pay for specific items or skills[1] or to get in to certain parts of the world. We also are deliberately designing with the assumption that nothing you pay for gives you an advantage in game play[2].

    Instead, most of the things you can buy are purely cosmetic: clothing, house or group hall decorations, etc. Many of these will be available a la carte; some will be locked so that they are available only to subscribers (and some will be both: they have to be purchased a la carte, but only subscribers can buy them).

    Subscriptions will have multiple tiers: the lowest will unlock most of options not available to free players, while the higher tiers will do that plus provide a monthly stipend which can be used to purchase a la carte items. (There will be some other benefits to subscriptions as well, like multiple characters per account.)

    We agree with and believe in the idea that purchase decisions should not get all up in your face during gameplay. And we think we can make plenty of money to support ourselves and Glitch without being sneaky or taking the fun out of the game. It should be a square deal and the model I like to keep in mind is like a good restaurant or hotel: ideally, we provide good service, anticipate needs and provide something or genuine value … and so people buy it, and everyone is happy.

    [1] The one possible future exception to this: we may sell iOS or Android games, tied in to the big game, the purchase of which would give an achievement or unlock a skill not otherwise available to players. Getting higher scores in those games would increase the unlocked ability. This would allow some avenues of specialization not available to all players, but should not affect the overall balance or gameplay.

    [2] The one possible future exception to this: we will probably sell teleportation-tokens which, given a link to a location, you'd be able to spend to teleport there instantly. Some examples: Mary tweets a link to some new frontier street she just helped unlock; Fred sees the tweet, clicks the link and decides to teleport there to check it out: rather than wait the 5 real world minutes it would take to teleport there for free, he spends a token. Or, Susy's group is recruiting and they offer a special link to candidates with will teleport the clickee to the groups Hall of Indoctrination on the group's dime. Or, you start playing for the day, see a few of your friends online halfway across the world, and skip the walk/subway/ferry time by teleporting there directly …

    Being able to move around the world at will would give a game advantage, but we believe if we pull it off right (have a cooldown on teleportation which applies to the tokens as well, or have a daily limit on their use) then it would not be a big enough advantage to take the fun out of the game.
    Posted 22 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Will there be gift cards like in iTunes?
    Posted 22 months ago by Letter Jeigh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, very neat and well thought out ideas there. Good luck and I can definitely see this approach being very successful! :)
    Posted 22 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gifting subscriptions and gifting particular items (with wishlists, even) are all planned. If by "gift card" you mean an actual piece of plastic with a code on it and you can physically give to someone ... probably! But it'll be a while :)
    Posted 22 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Awesome! Also, thank you Stoot for letting people know what is being planned at the higher levels. That is why this game is great!
    Posted 22 months ago by Edward Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the overall system, the reason I quit playing most games is the pushing of premium items. I would prefer to just pay outright, it does not seem like much, and play the game.
    Posted 22 months ago by Ani Laurel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i don't like the teleportation token idea at all. it sounds like the ultimate example of "pay as you go" .. you literally pay in order to go places. definitely pushing a cash register to the forefront of gameplay.

    everything else sounds cool. more than cool. extremely excellent, even.
    Posted 22 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • US$5 monthly basic subscription plan, maybe US$15 for a family plan (myself and my daughters, maybe my sister - basically no more than 4 people) and you will have sold it to me.

    Especially if it gets me games on my Android phone and my sister's iPhone!
    Posted 22 months ago by Elbee Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Stoot

    Will your iphone/android apps require us to buy MOJO to get further ahead? ;)

    *sarcasm* for those that have never played We Rule and other NGMOCO games.

    Seriously Stoot, your take on games and what you are doing with Glitch is a breath of fresh air! I will be doing my part to spread the word about the game. Thank you!
    Posted 22 months ago by en Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Personally, I never pay anything which has a regular fee, but I would say this model is probably the best of all worlds.
    Posted 22 months ago by RobotGymnast Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would only add please don't do plastic gift cards, keep it totally digital--who doesn't have an email address these days? Certainly no one that is also playing Glitch.

    I used to buy Nexon cards for my daughter and although we recycled ours, I hate to think how many end up in landfills. If only there was a giant gold Platypus for gift cards and happy meal toys...
    Posted 22 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for the explanation, stoot! I wasn't expecting you to share so much, but thank you :)
    Yesterday, I also saw you tweet an interview you did that states "While Glitch will be free to play, users will be charged for access to extra levels and virtual goods and will even pay to open stores within the game itself." ...stores within the game itself... sounds intriguing.

    Can't wait for "Striatic's House of Noses"

    Oh, and nice couch: www.bcbusinessonline.ca/201...
    Posted 22 months ago by Yeoman Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, that bit of the article wasn't really accurate … sometimes the more subtle bits are lost in translation :)

    Eventually, players *might* be able to run stores, but I suspect what the reporter was going on was me talking about the potential to have advertising in the game, where the ads would have to be by players, to players, for things in the game (but you could buy actual billboard space in busy transit hubs, or on the subway, etc.)
    Posted 22 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • wow that would be awsome. COME TO ALEX'S PARTY HOUSE!!!!!
    Posted 22 months ago by Alex Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As someone mentioned higher up, games like Farmville seem to turn into flaunt-fests. I also agree with striatic's point that having $ signs show up in in-game shops would be disconcerting.

    My favorite model for freemium games is when cash can speed up the game but not allow you to directly purchase normal or exclusive items. Pocket Frogs is an excellent example of this model - you can pay dollars to breed frogs in multiple locations (which speeds up how fast you can get new frogs), and also for items that speed up the rate at which frogs grow and items come to you in the mail. But there's no buying frogs or decorations directly, and there's no special items you can't obtain without paying dollars, etc.

    Applying this model to Glitch we'd allow players to pay (either via subscription or one-off) to improve their: skill learning rate, action execution rate (e.g., how fast they mine), energy/mood burn rate (both for just standing there as well as how much is spent carrying out activities). That way a premium member and a regular member all have access to the same things, but the premium member doesn't have to invest as much play time to advance their character.

    Another major time component in Glitch is travel time. I love the teleport token idea Stoot posted. Another thought would be to allow players to pay to have bidirectional teleports (reset your destination to where you are leaving from when you use teleport) or additional teleport destinations. Again, this gives paying players a bit of an edge, but isn't in anyone's face.
    Posted 22 months ago by mirth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "reset your destination to where you are leaving from when you use teleport"

    I like that idea. A "there and back again" teleport. A day return ticket, perhaps.
    Posted 22 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Again, this gives paying players a bit of an edge, but isn't in anyone's face."

    it's in the player's face. all the time.

    i hate that mode of gameplay, where every aspect of almost everything you do has a real dollar price tag attached onto it.

    i don't want to be making the decision of "pay for or wait for?" every time i sit down to play glitch.

    i want to be making strategic decisions that encourage good play, not buying my way through the "game".
    Posted 22 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree striatic. I especially hate the notion of buying things for limited time "double xp" or "double gold" or something. That's how you get high level players with no understanding of even the basics of the game.

    But I have faith in Tiny Speck, and I'm sure they'll do this right.
    Posted 22 months ago by Aldaris Subscriber! | Permalink
  • and it won't be "invisible" when you invite two people to your house and one person shows up instantaneously because they're rich and the other person takes 5 to 10 minutes because they're poor.
    Posted 22 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @striatic: I don't mean "pay for it or wait for it". Things should always take time in the game. Consider this as an example (note that there's a lot of ways to skin this cat, and this is just shooting from the hip... not the cat):

    premium subscription = for a low monthly fee all skill learning is 15% faster, and you get 3 teleport destinations instead of 1.

    In my mind that's basically being able to pay a fee to play in an easier mode. I do agree with Aldaris that "double xp" models are usually bad. If we focus on things like skill learning rates we won't run into problems with players not learning game basics. They still have to earn xp in the same ways as non-paying players, still have to do the same quests, still face the same limited resources in a shared world, etc. There is a difference between being able to pay to play more efficiently and being able to pay to completely skip gameplay.

    At any rate, the main reason I'm throwing suggestions like this out is that I'd much rather see this sort of thing rather than "pay $5 and you get an awesome hat". That's much more blatant flaunting in my book, and is incidentally not the kind of thing I, or I imagine a lot of other Glitch players, would feel compelled to spend money on. I also wouldn't want to see "pay $5 for a stack of molybendum" because then that lets players pay to advance in the game without learning anything and may break the economy. (After too much time on WoW, I am loathe to consider currant farmers selling currants on ebay or something... ugh!)
    Posted 22 months ago by mirth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • that's not blatant flaunting.

    you can *choose* to not buy a hat if the only way to get it is to buy it.

    whereas paying for basic gameplay isn't really a choice.

    in the case of the fancy hat, that's a connoisseur, someone really into glitch .. not someone merely rich.

    but paying to teleport versus waiting to teleport is a pure rich/poor distinction. it is something that everyone has to do .. but some people do it better than others based on having more money.
    Posted 22 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • now if a subscription lets you teleport faster .. that's something else.

    there, you're capping the price so that there is a distinction between subscribers and non-subscribers which isn't necessarily a rich/poor distinction.

    more like casual/non-casual.
    Posted 22 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is flaunting much of a problem? I've rarely seen it in net games and I just think they're dorks when they try.
    Posted 22 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think flaunting should be a skill.

    It will come in handy against the Bureaucrats
    Posted 22 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think everyone should have 2 teleport destinations available all the time. It's one thing that almost makes me think I can't be bothered playing - you spend so much time just walking from one place to another. But maybe subway expansion will take care of it.
    Posted 22 months ago by Emu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • After last nights shenanigans I think I would now pay just to watch LOL :)
    Posted 22 months ago by Misha Subscriber! | Permalink