Topic

is glitch awesome or awful or both?

glitch is beginning to really bore me.

.. and yet at the same time ..

glitch is becoming more and more interesting to me.

when it comes to projects and skill building and item acquiring and leveling .. i'm done. i'm bored as piggy plop with all these things, and the weather is just too good to even try to like them.

projects suck. there's just not enough player input versus player effort. too much work, next to no creativity or even choice. there's too much competition, and while collaboration is still extremely strong on certain projects... meh.

the quests suck. well, most. the racing ones are really good, and some of the timer based quests are alright .. but in general they are all too similar to one another. same thing, different animations, over and over... yawn.

skill accumulation is actually pretty decent, and i love the timer based component and even the progressively longer learn times .. but with projects and quests being so unappetizing that acquiring skills seem rather useless.

subscriptions .. were a let down to say the least. the introduction of teleportation tokens last test session merely cemented my perception of subscription price not matching player value unless you like clothes. i wouldn't pay the money glitch is asking for their top tier subscription even for 10k teleport tokens.

i've lost pretty much all interest in these core aspects of the game.

.. and yet ..

great balls of jellisac has the game UI improved, and it wasn't even that bad to begin with. from recipes to maps to chat, every UI element demonstrates careful refinement. the way recipes and chat have improved demonstrates extreme cleverness and responsiveness on the part of the devs.

recently added collaborative elements to have been a bright light to me. it was fun just to follow other miners around and, well, help them! everything transcendental radiation promised to be, cooperative mining actually is. also, the random kindness item is even closer to what transcendental radiation promised to be, but wasn't. some small but very good and very recent collaborative developments.

player creativity and social scene has improved. the synchronized diving. the dev jumping. the people dressing up like trees. the quality personalities making status updates between tests. i've done some portraits of people's avatars and had a random person ask me to draw theirs. all of this is fun, engaging, social, creative stuff that holds the attention for a long time.

the art keeps getting better. okay, Bortola is rather boring, but it comes after the amazing work on Alakol, Tower, Mirch and Heights. the clothes keep getting better, and the hat + hair combinations are a great improvement. i'm not partial to the *look* of the frog but overall the game has never looked better.

.. anyway ..

despite great potential that engendered great enthusiasm from me, the projects and quest have been so boring for so long with so few exceptions that i've largely given up hope on them ever appealing to me. i see them as grind fests for those who enjoy grinding, and that's about it. sure projects could be improved but their foundation doesn't inspire much hope.

it feels like the game holds interest for me *despite* the major gameplay elements. the ad hoc, game unsupported creativity. the little collaborative mechanisms they struggle to take root in the seams of the game - like teleport buddies, barnacle parties, cooperative mining. i'm hoping, desperately, the group housing enhances both collaborative gameplay and .. well .. just hanging out being creative and social.

it is almost like everything about the game is awesome, except for the game itself. which is increasingly awful.

ok, shouldn't end on a negative. everything else *is* awesome, after all.

Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Here is one vote against fishing. (I mean.. I wouldn't mind if fishing were in the game, but I'd rather you guys work on stuff like allowing player creativity or group quests or whatever).

    I worry that fishing would eventually be like mining. Instead of patiently mining rocks by yourself, you would patiently wait for fish by yourself.

    My 2c.
    Posted 18 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Theres one thing that gets me though stri. On my post you were arguing that games should not add things to trigger addictions, and yet you want more content that will keep players coming back for more. Can't have it both ways...
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • coming back for more is hugely different from addiction because it means you actually leave.

    if you actually read my comments you would have read ..

    "i'd be perfectly happy with an "area a week" to pop in, hang out with friends and work to complete, then pop out. so long as the resulting area was significantly unique either aesthetically or from a gameplay perspective. very casual."

    doesn't sound addictive to me.

    i visit the local community garden on a regular basis. doesn't mean i am addicted to visiting it. i'd like it if glitch was just another cool place for me to visit on a regular basis. like the garden or my FLGS or the local bike trail.

    long term engagement doesn't mean *constant* engagement.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just my 2 currants: I don't want a game for finding creative ways to entertain myself. If a game is not entertaining me I click on Exit and go play something that doesn't require an effort from me to be fun or do this thing called real life where I can have my own little projects and quests.

    I keep coming back for tests because I enjoy testing and finding bugs but if the game was released in its current state (which I know it won't, hence IF) I doubt I'd be logging in more than once a week because I feel that I've done it all. It needs a lot more to keep me here after the release.
    Posted 18 months ago by Fussycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Laurali, re: "I am still slightly worried about some of this stuff before I buy my subscription … so I am hoping that before the tester subscription deal ends we can have a little more concrete idea of what types of changes will be made, if thats possible."

    Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be able to give you what you need. As crazy as it might seem, we're already being as concrete as is practical: we are going to be actively developing Glitch for many years and we're going as fast as we can (both in terms of the how hard each individual is working and how fast we are bringing new people in).

    We want to get the largest number of things done in the most efficient way and the reality of software development is that it doesn't work to try to prioritize things too far in the future or try to schedule religiously in the short term.

    Glitch is a *very* complex system (in my 15 years of doing this kind of stuff this is BY FAR the most complicated thing I've ever worked on) and often the connections between parts aren't obvious in advance (in both the "ah! now that we've done this we have a way easier way of doing that" sense and the "ah, crap — we can't really do that until we do this" sense).

    On top of that, making Glitch awesome is not just a technical challenge. We try all kinds of things that seem like good ideas but don't work. And on the other hand are often surprised by other things which prove much more popular than we anticipate. We are constantly going back to the drawing board and just as often switching focus to elaborate on some feature which we didn't expect was going to be important. All the feedback we get from tests (in the forums, in the help tickets, in the raw numbers) feeds back into the design process and we are always trying to re-adjust to ensure that the "most important thing we could be doing now" is the actual thing we are working on.

    I have no idea if that helps explain it, but the bottom line is that we won't ever be posting a schedule of which features are coming when or in what order new content will be released. And it's not because we are jerks but because we are pragmatists.

    So, my advice would be: if you unsure about whether you like the game or the direction it is going, wait and buy a subscription later. You might have to wait long enough that you miss the beta deal but the prices are not going to be so crazy high after anyway. And we'd rather not have unhappy customers :)
    Posted 18 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmm, just wondering, in an interview, stoot said (about subscription pricing): "I mean, we'll find the right balance, but I think it's enough that the people who actually enjoy the game will say, "It's not an unreasonable amount of money."... hmmm. Currently (and I know it's all a work in progress), but the post-beta prices (double what they are now) seem a little steep for what they come with in terms of tokens and gameplay (highest tier $178 after beta). Love it nevertheless and I gather the prices are 'competitive' in the market... but... unreasonable? Maybe a little...? Thank god for tiers and beta/alpha benefits :D
    Posted 18 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • IMHO, I think $15.00 p/m for a 24/7 entertainment experience is extremely reasonable. The beta 50% discount is a super bargain, particularly when the game goes live. My netflix subscription runs $18.00 p/m, going to a movie runs about $12.00, even my Kindle books run about $10.00. So, for me, spending $7.50 a month to entertain myself is quite a good deal and will only be enhanced when the game goes live. If a year from now I find myself burned out or bored, well so be it. I'd like to think it was money well spent for the entertainment value----during beta and and beyond.

    Back on topic: I think Glitch is awesome!
    Posted 18 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stoot: Thanks.  I'll have to think about it some more.  I do love the game, and I do trust that you guys are willing to make the appropriate changes.  Just something for me to think about.

    @stri:  "the game is a trigger that activates the underlying condition, not a symptom" 
    You said that in a different forum.  I am just saying, what might be something that only brings you back once a week and is casual for you could work as a trigger to an addiction for someone else.  I was not trying to start an argument or anything, just wanted to point out that its not possible to create a game that brings players back to it without creating the possibility to trigger an addiction in those who have a predisposition to addiction.
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Rachel2635, the thing is, with Netflix, a movie, or a Kindle, if you don't pay, you don't get to play!  Anyone can play Glitch without a subscription.  The subscription gets you votes, teleport tokens and subscriber clothing options - it doesn't give you the game.  I'm not sure I see the value in paying $15/mo for these 3 things, but I'm also going to wait and see what the game looks like before deciding I'd rather just ride free.

    But I would agree with you if I had to pay to play in terms of value (in other words, the game is valuable to me, not so much the votes, clothes and tokens).
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Stoot:Last, to everyone on designing/decorating/creating spaces: this will definitely happen (we're not working on it yet, but it will be the first/biggest project we'll start on post-beta). It is really important, but it also not simple. And we want to get it right :)
    This is very encouraging and brings some new excitement! And so does Eric's post about fishing. I can't wait to see these happen!!!
    Posted 18 months ago by Miss Muffett Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Good points, Zeeberk :) I keep forgetting that the game itself is free and that a subscription just gives the items you mentioned. To know that anyone can enjoy the game for free is a really special and rare. Good on ts!
    Posted 18 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I am just saying, what might be something that only brings you back once a week and is casual for you could work as a trigger to an addiction for someone else."

    come on.

    there is a difference between having a fun place to visit with friends and doing social stuff and building and creating, and a MMOs that use operant conditioning methods to stimulate reward response.

    "wanted to point out that its not possible to create a game that brings players back to it without creating the possibility to trigger an addiction in those who have a predisposition to addiction."

    there are lots of things that people like over long stretches of time that are in no way addictive. most things, actually!

    and in the previous topic i said that even if something is mildly addictive, if it fits in well with one's overall lifestyle that it isn't a problem. so even if you want to claim that all "games" have the capacity for addiction, so long as it is mild enough and the game is structured into .. i dunno .. a largely benign ritual like tea drinking .. who cares?

    yeesh, talk about a derail.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • also i have to agree with zeeberk. glitch doesn't even compare to netflix in terms of entertainment value and ideas, art and beauty i get out of it.

    maybe one day it might, but it doesn't now, and since i don't need to pay a dime to get value out of glitch, i don't see much value returned for donating money other than charity to tiny speck.

    not that i mind in the short term, but i would like to pay tiny speck for something i felt i was getting value in return for.

    if glitch was a not for profit like NPR or something, then i'd possibly donate just to get some token stuff back [glitch tote bags, anyone?] in order to support the cause.

    but it ain't so i won't : ]
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And that is why it is great that there are many pricing options! Something for everyone!
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • finally back on track now ..

    "So, my advice would be: if you unsure about whether you like the game or the direction it is going, wait and buy a subscription later. You might have to wait long enough that you miss the beta deal but the prices are not going to be so crazy high after anyway. And we'd rather not have unhappy customers :)"

    that's where i'm at right now.

    like in the top post, there are still a couple of things surrounding glitch that i'm deeply pessimistic about ever appealing to me despite early promise.

    that said, there are certainly very promising things going on as well. so we will see. very conflicted, depending on what facet of the game we're talking about.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It would be lovely if the discounts for testers were extended a few months into the after-launch period, so those of us who've played the whole game already (some of us multiple times) could figure out whether or not there's going to be enough new material to hold our interest.  I say this only because stoot has now said that material for higher-level players won't be developed until after launch, so we'll just be repeating ourselves again, for a while. 
    Posted 18 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glum, as a lower-level player (and one who's already paid for a sub) I have to say that sounds very reasonable.
    Posted 18 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • glum, i don't think we need an extension because clearly there won't be that material until after launch.

    so any extension would be meaningless in terms of decision-making.

    if glitch doesn't provide enough value to you to get you subscribed now, you already know it without requiring an extension to better figure it out.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, striatic and I cross-posted with exactly opposite opinions, so there you are.

    I think there may be value in seeing how the world develops over a few months post-beta - even if it doesn't immediately impact at the higher levels.  Even though there may be no real changes at the higher levels by (for instance) three months out, there may be enough development to give a roadmap to those who are on the fence and have been playing for a while.  

    Apologies if I'm making little sense.  I've re-read my own words several times and realize I'm exhausted from work stuff this week and should probably just go to bed.
    Posted 18 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @glum: thats what I was hoping as well.

    @stri: there have been a TON of "derails" in this post.  mine was just one you didn't like.
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic said: if glitch was a not for profit like NPR or something, then i'd possibly donate just to get some token stuff back [glitch tote bags, anyone?] in order to support the cause.

    I'd actually LOVE some Glitch swag. I'd totally trade in a months worth of credits for a nice sticker to put on my laptop.


    Back to the topic: Glitch is awesome until about level 20, at which point the quests start fizzle out and there's a large sense of, "ok, now what?" (More cooking is what, for me.) But stoot addressed that in his reply, and I have faith that TinySpeck will bring the same level of fun to later levels in time. I totally understand focusing on early-level polish during pre-launch development. But levels 1-15? Holy cow, so much fun. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Sheepy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "@stri: there have been a TON of "derails" in this post.  mine was just one you didn't like."

    dude, you actually *quoted a different thread*. totally out of context of anything else i said in that thread, but quoted nonetheless.

    has anyone here speaking tangentially from the subject at hand done anything remotely like that? no.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @jasbo - "I think there may be value in seeing how the world develops over a few months post-beta - even if it doesn't immediately impact at the higher levels." 

    i grok that but am not sure one would need to be a subscriber to see that.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch, at this moment in time for me is awfully amd awesomely magnetic in its powerfully communal (collective) imaginative potential. I've only been here since March. I'm still a noob, comparitively speaking, with nooby eyes and nooby thoughts.

    The unknown potential keeps me checking the red door. What might be. What could be. Whatever Stoot and company can create together with our wishes, desires, dreams...this need to know will keep me in thrall for at least the length of my years' "lease".

    Yes, the daily grinding necessary can be boring, repetative and mindless. Most shift work is, in real life and in most casual resource management games. But it's the payoff, the attainable prize, the goal that is the DRAW. And the DRAW is whatever sight we set for ourselves in this delightfully imaginative world; be it collecting ingredients for a particular dish, mining for diamonds to line the new pig pen or setting a personal speed record for filling 16 fire fly jars. I'm still nooby enough to enjoy projects.

    Glitch can be anything we help to imagine within its Beta parameters. Because there are limits. Everything has limits. I like testing limits. I especially like anticipating limits. And in this new virtual world the limits aren't necessarily The End. Stoot and company do be supple and crafty and very accepting of changes.

    Oh, and I still like buying clothes (Molly-B for me!!) because I'm constantly changing too.

    *"... I am not worried... 'cause I've done this sort of thing before...I'm not gonna bend, I'm not gonna break...snap her up in a butterfly net...send her off to a coconut island...everytime she sneezes I believe it's love..."*
    **with apologies to Counting Crows for having the audacity to butcher Anna Begins but I'm making an exception and Adams' poetry is so fitting for this sort of thing...**
    Posted 18 months ago by Poney Tails Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I keep getting drawn to this forum subject. I have had thoughts of not posting. But I keep coming back and reading more. I went back to the beginning and decided to say something in regards to the first post. I am too new to the game to judge too much. However, I have had the same thoughts. Is the game "sustainable"? This was the reason my other fave game fell to it's demise. They said it wasn't sustainable. It made me sick. Angry. Wow was I mad.....but that was the past. I bought a subscription the last test with the feeling of anxiety. But, I am taking a chance in hopes that this game is sustainable and that the creations and stories and quests continue to grow.
    Thank you devs for listening to all of the great ideas that are brought to you by so many testers. I feel by listening to them and bringing those great ideas to reality is partly the key to Glitch's long life. The rest is up to you because you have a really great thing going! Keep the great imagination juices flowing.
    Posted 18 months ago by Miss Muffett Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic, my point was that since we won't get anything new until after launch, we should retain our discount options until after new material has been added, so we'd be able to accurately evaluate whether or not the game will hold lasting appeal for us.  I know this won't happen, but I'm throwing it out there anyway, lest no one else suggest it. 

    Some alpha testers have been offered two free months of subscription, but only if we actually pay for a full year of subscription.  It's a nice perk, but useless if we don't actually spend money before launch.  Personally, I have high hopes for Glitch, but know that it only takes a couple of weeks for me to finish the bulk of the structured content which is currently available.
    Posted 18 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Poney Tails ;)

    glum, I doubt we'll extend it: everyone (except those who get their invites near the end of beta) will have had several months to decide. And there will be no magic point 3 or 5 or 7 or any particular number of weeks after beta: we are going to be adding and developing for many years. There will always be something else right around the corner (new mechanics, new locations, new quests, new items, new skills, etc.)
    Posted 18 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Yes, the daily grinding necessary can be boring, repetative and mindless. Most shift work is, in real life and in most casual resource management games. But it's the payoff, the attainable prize, the goal that is the DRAW."

    that's where we'll have to disagree. the "goal" is typically a little fake sticker or something similar and i do wonder what adam duritz would think about finding his poetry befitting the scenario of spending hours after hours after days after weeks after months after years sitting in front of a computer terminal, clicking fake rocks in order to get gold stars from fake gods.

    limits are good for creativity, sure, but there is nothing creative about merely mining rocks in a grind.

    having well drawn stickers as the goal of a grind isn't enough. the process itself needs to be fun, varied and either intellectually or emotionally engaging or both.

    let us all bear in mind that the default state of a glitch player is sitting on their ass, staring into a glowing screen, which is by default a pathetic state of being which can only be justified if something seriously interesting is going on between the ears .. not just constant clicking emulating shift work in search of the seemingly [but not really] cathartic release of a 'reward'.

    clicking a rock over and over again is not "play".

    limits don't need to be grind based anyway. they could be timer based, offering more time for world exploration or socializing or just getting outside and doing something other than paying penance for buying a new virtual appliance or virtual house by clicking fake rocks all day.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot said, "There will always be something else right around the corner (new mechanics, new locations, new quests, new items, new skills, etc.)"

    This is the thing that both excites and scares me.  Glitch already has a much larger World than FS had in 2 years.  And, the Glitch world is still growing and will continue to do so.  Some players are getting bored (I don't understand it but have not been here long).  When I think in terms of "Years" (and, oh how I hope it does last years so I can die happy) I become concerned over how the game will develop.  If it continues to grow (even if more slowly after launch) where will we be in one or two years?  Will Glitch expand into more games i.e. Glitch, Glitch2, Glitch Mars, etc.?  Will we need an express train to reach the far regions or a space shuttle?  How many quests will we have at Launch, in another year, in five years?  Will some quests be repeatable?  I'd like to do some of them again but some are not repeatable.  My mind spins thinking of possibilities.  I am on the edge of my seat and wait anxiously to see what is next.  I have high hopes that Glitch will be long lived and that I may continue to enjoy it as much as I do now.  Thanks Devs!
    Posted 18 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot: However, there can be all kinds of ways to make one's way in the world (and maybe even storefront businesses selling game items can be made to work somehow). And there is an enormous amount we still need to do in order to create the framework to allow players to do that. 


    @Stoot, with the possibility of storefronts in the future of Glitch, allowing players to (maybe) sell their own creations, have you considered the viability of a real life economy such as that of Second Life?


    Re: Alakol Housing, I think the houses are great, what I meant by my earlier comments was that if you  compare the multitude of different housing currently in Groddle Meadow, the exteriors vary quite a bit..and even the interiors have a range of different decor - whereas there are no deviations in the Alakol ones....hey I bought one so I must like them ;-)
    Posted 18 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am new at commenting, but after reading some of these depressing complaints and negative responses, I cannot hold my tongue.  You know when FS closed. I was a lost sole. As most of us we, in real life, have a sack of rocks we carry everyday. This wonder game called Glitch, gave me a home again out of this world.  I find many things to do to entertain myself, and the possibilities are endless.  Please everyone look at all the clever and amazing work these people have created.  I love Glitch, you can leave it just the way it is and I am happy or change It and I will still be happy, JUST DON'T CLOSE PLEASE : )  If I have missed the point of all these responses, I apologize.  Love all the people I see on my adventures in glitch.  Sure a great space to be to escape. Thanks to all who allowed me to be a part of these trials.  And to the Glitch family I have met, think you are all pretty darn nice.   Violetflame
    Posted 18 months ago by Paula Piggy Plop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Violetflame: I think you may have missed the point a bit.  I am glad that you were able to find something you really care about, but in order for this game to progress so that it does not have any problems (I honestly have NO idea what FS or Faunasphere sp? is, but from what I can gather its a game that got shut down) people have to be critical of the content.  It's not all about liking everything or all the changes that happen in the game, because being able to recognize the problems or shortcomings will allow the developers to see what parts of the game need to be changed in order to make this game as successful as possible.  We show our support and love for the game by trying to make it the best it can be.
    Posted 18 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You are absolutely right and again I apologize for missing the point.  I am sure you know much more than I about this.  Thank you for your response.  Violetflame
    Posted 18 months ago by Paula Piggy Plop Subscriber! | Permalink
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