Topic

Dude, no one stole from you

Seriously.

[pulls glasses down on nose]

It is impossible for people to steal from one another in this game.  No one can reach into your bags and no one can enter your house without permission.  You can keep all of your belongings safe from others by keeping it in the places that are designated as yours.  People seem to be confusing how they'd like things to be with how they actually are.

No one stole your meat collector: you left it in a public area.
No one planted a tree in your plot: that plot is on a public street.
No one stole your emblems from your house: you chose to let someone into your home who you did not know very well.

Be a grown up and take care of your belongings using the tools you've been given.  You've just been given a free home with plentiful resources.  Enjoy it!

[pushes glasses back up]

Posted 9 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

Previous 1 2
  • Really. Then why is it called "my" street? And why is it I am able to lock some things down? And is this not beta? Are we not supposed to state our opinions and ideas for what would make it better? Instead of telling people to "be a grown up" why don't you try contributing something useful to the discussion?
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Someone stole my heart. She was wearing a mink stole. We stole some time together. Who stole the sparkle from the stars and put it in your eyes?
    Posted 9 months ago by OL. Der Dan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can I add:

    'No one stole *your* plot in a community garden'

    because I'm so sick of that one (especially now everyone in the game had just been given a private herb garden in the new house!).
    Posted 9 months ago by Lukie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I second the motion!
    Posted 9 months ago by ~Arabesque~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thirded!
    Posted 9 months ago by Sororia Rose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How "public" a Home Street is, is defined by friendships. That I could friend you, put your name on my post, and then travel to your Home Street, makes your HS accessible to me, but not quite public.

    IRL, using the same level of cost and difficulty as Glitch, I could find your home, travel to your home, light a fire in your yard, poop on your car, and taunt you for not being a grown up who takes care of his belongings. And then, once you or a considerate neighbor called them, I would promptly be hauled off by the police, assuming that because you live in a country with internet access, you also enjoy certain basic rights.

    Emblems? Sure, whatever, there's a matter of lapsed judgment possible there, and even in all of your proposed cases. But theft is theft, whether it occurs in public or in private.

    I sometimes wish the agitators who are so obsessed with a pure economy (vendor haters, etc) were matched by players insistent on some kind of ethical behavior.

    No you may not, Lukie: there's a wide, wide line between hypothetical ownership of any given community garden plot, and the game-sanctioned custodianship of our very own Home Streets. :P
    Posted 9 months ago by Stuv Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hear, hear! It is one thing to suggest things be lock-down-able or that trees and feeders and such be locked and to complain about theft. Many of these posts are whining about "someone stole my ___". They aren't "I have an idea. I'd like to put things in the street out front and not have them able to be taken." Suggestions for improvement are much different than bemoaning loss of things knowingly left on a public street.
    Posted 9 months ago by Dr. Babycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Audaria, I contributed to the discussion by saying more than "[be] a grown up".  I outlined my position and left some examples.  We don't agree, and my post irked you, but that doesn't mean it lacks content.

    Stuv, IRL, I would not leave my car unlocked, keys in the ignition and my wallet on the passenger seat in my driveway then become upset when someone drove off with my car.  On a side note, is it wrong that I'd be kind of flattered if someone from Glitch went to the trouble of pooping on my car?  Regardless, it's tricky to apply RL laws and assumptions to this game, and the notion that "theft is theft" is true of my position as well.
    Posted 9 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I disagree Dr. B. Almost all of the posts that you describe as whining are suggestions that items placed on the home streets be locked down-able! There are ideas and support for those ideas.
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sloppy - no you did NOT outline your position. You only stated that "no one has stolen." This is far different from outlining your position. If you wanted to contribute to the discussion, you would explain WHY you do not think things on home streets should be locked down and HOW this mechanic is beneficial to the majority of players. The only one WHINING in this thread, is you!
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Audaria, I'll frame it a different way.  People really want to decorate the outside of their homes and have some control over what's out there.  People seem to want to keep livestock outside their homes, piggy feeders and meat collectors, etc. as well as to plant trees they wish to harvest outside as well.  That may come with the big update, and if enough people ask for it and that helps the process, that's great.  I am not opposed to any of that.

    What I'm opposed to is the idea that those things belong to people right now.  I was reminding folks that as it stands, the only places that you can safely grow things, herd things or store things is in your bags and in your home.  Everything is fair game, and to discuss "'my' street[s]" when TS has not allocated property in that way is going to lead to a lot of anguish.

    In addition, I'll add my voice to those of other players who may not be heard over the din of complaints about the beta housing test and say that I think it's great and I trust that what's to come will be even better.
    Posted 9 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sloppy: Haha no, I don't think it's wrong that you'd be flattered. It would be kind of funny! The point I was trying to make was that it's much, much easier to interfere with (damage, alter, take) private property left in semi-public places in Glitch than it is IRL, and that just because someone could interfere doesn't mean they should.

    The reason I didn't call for a system of locking my property down is because that's really not what I want from this game (so sue me!). The improvement I want is one that can't be coded in: a little more respect, a little more goodwill, and some basic decency!

    If the possibility of theft is coded out of the game, the notion of theft ceases to have meaning. That property could be stolen, and is not, is what defines theft. If everything is locked down, theft is not merely impossible, but inconceivable.

    I'm also enjoying the custom housing update a great deal! TS is certainly paying attention to what people want, and have been very clear that this is only a test.

    (As an addendum - I recently installed 2 Blockmakers in Shimla Mirch that I used as I wandered around. They were gone the next day, and I didn't think twice about it. I had left them in a clearly public place, and if someone had decided they'd rather take them for themselves, I didn't mind the loss. But things I'd placed on "Stuv's Home Street" just have a slightly different flavor for me.)
    Posted 9 months ago by Stuv Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Over in the Ideas forum I proposed have a Stealer's Guilt debuff which attempts to provide at least a disincentive to "theft". However, as this thread shows, agreement on what constitutes "theft" is and probably always will be lacking. In the test housing thread there is a question and response:

    " Are things I put in my front yard safe? // Your front yard is a public space. Anyone can pass through, so exercise the same sort of caution you would have on Gregarious Grange."

    So the front yard/home street is a public space. I think one of the biggest most confusing issues is that it acts both as a public space AND a private space. Having it act at all like a Private Space ("I can drop my Still and Icons hurray!") nudges us towards ("Hey I can keep my Still here with no problem how come my Feeders keep disappearing? Is the Alcohol Lobby really that much more powerful than the Ag Board?") the feeling that theft is occurring.

    For the present I have given up on front yard feeders and will survive without them. But I really like the point Stuv makes:

    "If the possibility of theft is coded out of the game, the notion of theft ceases to have meaning. That property could be stolen, and is not, is what defines theft. If everything is locked down, theft is not merely impossible, but inconceivable."

    For me this hits the nail on the head. People can poison trees. Many people do, and many people don't.  But that is a CHOICE that TS has given us all. We can choose to poison and as a result suffer the CONSEQUENCES. If home streets continue with this public/private mix I'd like to see some consequences for exercising the choice to take things. People are not compelled to take these items, they have a choice, and if they choose to exercise the ability to take things like feeders or collectors let them at least experience some sort of disincentive.
    Posted 9 months ago by The Cat Face Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As I said when you put forth this idea in an update, I like the idea of the debuff taking the form of currants paid to the owner of the street. If you should steal my things, you must pay me for them. I still don't have the option of keeping you from taking it, but at least I don't have to earn the currants to replace it, and at least it won't be profitable for you. Like an instant justice system.
    Posted 9 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stuv, I fully agree.  In RL, some suppose that there is a code for altruism (see the work of George Price).  He struggled with this same issue- if it's "written in" it loses all meaning!

    While I still believe that real theft in-game is impossible, there are myriad ways for people to show both their kindness and their greed.  

    [edited to make George Price link to a more accessible article]
    Posted 9 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This has been such a nice thread.
    Posted 9 months ago by Stuv Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stuv:  " If the possibility of theft is coded out of the game, the notion of theft ceases to have meaning. That property could be stolen, and is not, is what defines theft. If everything is locked down, theft is not merely impossible, but inconceivable."   Perfectly stated, well done!  Yet I must confess that having things stolen off my front doorstep did leave a bad taste in my mouth.  I'm somewhat wiser now and more selective about what I leave around, where I leave it, and whom I trust.
    Posted 9 months ago by Mostly Mellow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I steal stuff from Sloppy often.  Just dont tell her ok?

    *steals glasses, runs*
    Posted 9 months ago by ☣ elf ☣ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have to give credit to my environmental ethics class for that insight. I was working on its take-home exam when I saw this thread.

    Philosophy applicable to the real world? Who knew!
    Posted 9 months ago by Stuv Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm with Sloppy here.  

    Thanks, Sloppy.
    Posted 9 months ago by deadkat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *Steals ketchup, catsup, and cocktail sauces!
    Use your head when you place things on public (though "your") streets.
    Posted 9 months ago by Breaking Dawn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *squints*

    My glasses?  Really?  I was kinda hoping I'd find some elf poop on my car in the morning.  Oh well.

    *stumbles off*
    Posted 9 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I believe the current intent is to have players devise the disincentives for theft.  Social consequences matter too.

    Also, I too steal from Sloppy.  Secretly, I sneak in to people's houses to try on their clothes when they aren't logged in.  Then I sing "I Feel Pretty" until they come back on, catch me, and I have to bribe them so they don't tell everyone.  I keep one article of clothing as a memento.  So, Sloppy, if you're wondering where that hat went, well...
    Posted 9 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I feel as though I've lost a mass amount of brain cells reading this.
    Posted 9 months ago by mazzy▲ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While it might be a public street, it is weird how many people hide behind that and use "it's a public street" as a justification to run through housing areas and take everything not nailed down. I mean, who needs 40 shiny objects? or 19 RKs? 88 Chick Cubimals? And why should what trees I've planted on my street matter to anybody else (that seems like nothing more than screwing with people for no reason)? I'm not sure how solid the "public street" excuse is when it gets taken so advantage of... not saying it's "stealing", but it is a little bit exploitative and more than a little bit obnoxious.
    Posted 9 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think part of the problem with our personal streets right now is that the things that are supposed to make them personal haven't been released yet.  When we can design our home's exterior, place rocks, patches, plots, jellisac tubes and firefly swarms, and (I hope) change the visible landscape, it'll seem much cooler and more interesting to have our own street that other glitchen can interact with as they do with regular streets in Ur.  (And we have, in our houses, a place that other glitchen can't mess with without our permission, which we can decorate with moveable objects as well as furniture and animals to our heart's content.)  Right now, since we can do very very little to our streets that other glitchen can't, we have the options of trying to customize them in ways that other glitchen can undo, or just letting them be boring and the same as everyone else's.  For my part, I'm going to wait on trying to do stuff with my street until more of the functionality is released.

    editing to say that I agree with Djabril that it's rude to swoop through public places gathering up en masse things people have put there as displays.  Not theft, but rude.
    Posted 9 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I gotta say, I'm with Sloppy.
    Posted 9 months ago by Popcorn☺ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought the landscape was inside the house...like...a house that appears small on the outside but really big on the inside.
    Posted 9 months ago by Sororia Rose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • People don't "hide behind" saying it's a public street.  It isn't an 'excuse' to say so.

    It's a public street.  What you leave on it is up for grabs.

    If you leave clutter and various junk on it because YOU think that makes it pretty, you'd better come to grips with the idea that somebody else might disagree, and do some real work to back up how they feel.  It's real work gathering up a hundred or so shiny objects and pitching them in a shrine.
    Posted 9 months ago by Polo Reede Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't agree with sloppy. And I respect everyone's right to share their opinion .
    I pretty much fall into the camp of " it should not be called my street when I do not have full access and control over it." It's a confusing label , this " My street" , for multiple reasons that other posters outlined above.
    Just because a person wants to label something " theft" and someone else wants to label it "not theft" .. truth is truth, perhaps-- Did you go to a "new house street " that wasn't your own street and pick up something and take it with you (any other item besides the results of a tree there that you harvested or ore from a rock you mined there ) ? If there was not a note to indicate that it was a "free to take" item -
    THEN you picked up and took with you property that did NOT belong to you , REGARDLESS of WHERE on the new house street the item was resting at the time.
    Which sounds like theft to me. But that's just my opinion.
    Posted 9 months ago by serenitycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well this is the way I figure it. It's my street in the same way that the street that my house faces is my street.  Yes, I live here.  No, I don't leave my stuff on my lawn without some idea that it might not be there when I look outside next time.

    At some point this is semantics I suppose.  I understand where the other camp is coming from but this is the way I look at it.
    Posted 9 months ago by deadkat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's something about labeling a street with a player's name that gives it a very personal feel, on that side I can see where people are coming from.  At the same time, however, people have been leaving things out doors the entire time I've been playing - often with notes saying "please don't take" or "help yourself" or Gnomes that express the player's want for whatever they've set outside.  I'd love to see something as simple as a sign, a note, or a talking statue sort out the issue of personalized streets.  Perhaps we'll get the ability to fence in an area, or otherwise denote what we consider private and what's blatantly public.

    Over all, I agree with Sloppy...it isn't theft if something's left on the Glitch equivalent of the sidewalk.  The question for me is: Is there a point where it stops being sidewalk and becomes someone's front yard/garden?  From what's been said by the staff so far it seems like the answer, at least for the time being is "no, it's all sidewalk."  And I don't know about y'all, but when I put my old couch out on the curb I expected someone would pick it up and wasn't at all surprised when it was gone the next morning.

    Anyway, I'd like to see the social side of the game sort this issue out with something easy like leaving notes or signs, but still recognizing that a small number of people will just be jerks and take whatever isn't nailed down.  It isn't theft, it's just, as my 12yr old put it, "Jerk-ery".
    Posted 9 months ago by Belasco Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't want to be grown up. I'm playing a game.
    Posted 9 months ago by Eye Wonder Subscriber! | Permalink
  • serenitycat 

    "truth is truth" And the truth is it is not against the rules to pick up items that are left on a street.  Calling people names for playing by the rules is not telling the truth.  
    Posted 9 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Windborn _ I dont think I called anyone a name or called people names. If you could point out where I did - then please do .
    Also , I didn't specify what was or was not against the rules. If you could point out where I did that , then please do .
    Posted 9 months ago by serenitycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You said, " THEN you picked up and took with you property that did NOT belong to you , REGARDLESS of WHERE on the new house street the item was resting at the time. Which sounds like theft to me. 

    Since it is not against the rules to pick up items left on a street, it can't be theft, can it?  To say that in your imagination that is theft, along with lots of all-caps, is to insist that your imagination (not the rules of the game) is reality.  That's not true.  Reality is that what you describe is not theft, no matter how strongly you imagine that it is.
    Posted 9 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Windborn- You still didn't point out where I called anyone a name or called people names. Neither did you point out a place where I specifed what was or was not against the rules.

    As stated - I respect everyone's right to share their opinion. That's what I did- share my opinion . I described a behaviour then stated that the specified behaviour sounded like theft to me.
    I used caps to attempt to put in a verbal inflection that is difficult to add to text. Sorry if the caps somehow offended you.
    The truth is that, in the example I gave, the item that was picked up and taken away did not, in fact, originally belong to the person that picked it up and took it away-no matter where that item was sitting on the street ( that did not have their own name on it) . That is all .
    Again , it's just my opinion .
    Posted 9 months ago by serenitycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The truth is that, in the example I gave, the item that was picked up and taken away did not, in fact, originally belong to the person that picked it up and took it away-no matter where that item was sitting on the street ( that did not have their own name on it) . That is all .

    Yes, that is all.  It originally didn't belong to them.  They had to pick it up and then it belonged to them.  Before they picked it up it didn't belong to anybody.  But what's the point in stating the obvious?  And no, that's not just your opinion.
    Posted 9 months ago by Polo Reede Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Polo - It is sort of hiding behind an excuse to watch somebody clear off an entire street's worth of porches then tell whomever might be around that, because "everything's up for grabs", nobody should have tried to do anything nice for their neighbors, essentially (not everything lying on a street is "clutter and various junk"- often, it's a present). Just because there are loose items on a street doesn't make swooping through and filling a few bags with them rude; not only do you not know why they've been left where they are, it's weird to go to somebody else's street looking to see what you can grab for no other reason than that it's there. There are much easier and less creeper-ly ways to get resources that don't involve jumping from street to street ransacking everything you see.
    Posted 9 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Couldn't the street problem be instantly solved by making street access require being on the friend list of the person who the street is named for? Currently anyone who clicks my name has access to my street. Doesn't it make more sense to have it work in reverse?

    So to visit scullyangel's street I would have to have added you as a friend. This would allow anyone going for badges or whatever to add whoever they want. It would also allow those who would like to have their streets be more personal a bit of control over who can visit.

    Just a thought.
    Posted 9 months ago by scullyangel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh. My. Giant. did I just seriously did here and read all of these?
    Why are we even in a heated discussion about this?? Why in the world are people getting there knickers in a knot because "wah wah wah this aspect of the game isn't the way I want it to be" sure, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but there is really no point in this entire post but to start drama. Want something changed? Head over to the ideas forum instead of posting your idea in general. (although sloppy I do agree with you on the matter and understand the point you are making here) BUT.
    Let's just all face the fact that no matter what happens in this game NO one will be completely happy with it. Someone is still going to complain about some mundane thing.
    perfect example- Facebook. How many times has Facebook dramatically changed (with no notice) and everyone was like what da eff is this noise. And then people rage about how much they hate it. Then suddenly, before you no it, you're used to it. Then BAM they change it again and the cycle repeats.
    The difference between glitch and Facebook is the devs actually give us an opinion in glitch. They care if we hate it. Facebook could careless if we complain. Lol. We've grown so used to throwing tantrums and getting our way we've forgotten that that doesn't always work...
    Love you guys. Really do. But had to get that off my chest.
    Whoo.
    Posted 9 months ago by Clickadee Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ elf...that was so funny...I lmao, outloud, spitting coffee all over my computer.

    (ok maybe it's not that funny, but it was!)
    Posted 9 months ago by Sir Mixalatte Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fact #1--People can and will take stuff from your house if you let them in, or from your land without needing any invitation.  Fact #2--People put things on their land that they consider theirs, worked for, wanted to continue to enjoy, and would prefer stay there.  By taking those things, you are willfully making the person unhappy and depriving them of income or enjoyment.   Fact #3--This is beta.  We shouldn't assume the current state is necessarily like the final state, but we can't hope to influence the final state by shutting up and waiting to see, we should talk about what we like and dislike.

    I think it's personal property and the taking of it theft, but it's not unexpected and I don't put out anything I'm not willing to lose.  I don't really care if you think I'm wrong about 'personal property' or 'theft', but I do take offense at players who willfully cause me sadness and loss for their own personal gain or pleasure.

    TS could and I hope will do better with this too.  Feeders and collectors haven't worked in public streets in the past. If they work but are not lockable in our home streets now, that's a mistake and I hope it's temporary.  Make them not work or make them lockable.  I'd also incentivize the building of beautiful curated spaces open to the community in the semi-public front yard instead of the private house and back yard by reducing the discrepancy in ownership rights.

    WindBorn--Why can't we call it theft if it's not against the rules?  We could be using the common English sense of the term instead of a legal sense which might require unlawfulness, or we could be considering a moral or natural law which abides despite the lack of local law. Or we could skip the specifics and simply call the person a libertine and a scoundrel because fact #2 still stands--the action's not being against a rule doesn't make it not a jerk move.
    Posted 9 months ago by Zauberberg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @BrieSuz18 - Good contribution. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • http://theoatmeal.com/comics/state_web_winter#facebook
    Posted 9 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, taking and keeping something that is not yours with intent to deprive the owner of its use, even if the object is in a public place is a criminal offence in the UK. "Stealing by finding"

    Perhaps that is why some of us find it strange that some people think it ok just to take things that don't belong to them and which so obviously do belong to someone else?
    Posted 9 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I believe there is a huge difference between saying "I wish people acted in a way that conforms with my idea of ethical behaviour" and saying "Someone did X and that is not how you are supposed to play Glitch!"
    This game has mechanics built in by the designers that include places that anyone can harvest, places that only those you have allowed in can harvest. They include tree poison and planks you can splank people with. They include sneezing powder, ability to help mine, rook attacks on public streets, and community gardens. People can utilize these things as they wish so long as they do not violate the TOS. And every game I have seen has people who take great joy in knotting the knickers of folks who get hysterical about these things. And every forum has threads like this that will never end :)
    Posted 9 months ago by Fogwoman Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Woke up today to my feeders and collectors gone :(  Yes, I do believe they STOLE from me!   Yes these are public streets but it is obvious why these feeders are here for the purpose of feeding my pigs, not for anyone to come and help themselves.    I have absolutely no respect for anyone that wonders around stealing from others.  I guess it's best that they do it here in a game though, maybe it keeps them off the real streets stealing from the neighbors... but I doubt it :(  
    Posted 9 months ago by Cabinwood Subscriber! | Permalink
  • aw jeez, collectors are cheap and if you are that low on currants, esh...

    plus, if someone needs a collector that bad that they steal it, id feel sorry for them

    we do, however, need to have things locked down in front of our houses, without fail

    it is stupid to develop new housing and leave that feature out
    Posted 9 months ago by ☣ elf ☣ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't believe anyone is getting their "knickers in a knot" (I do like that version of the phrase though!).  People can talk about things, even passionately debate them, without it being an all-consuming concern for them.  For example, I probably won't think much about this when I'm done writing this until I glance at the forums again.  I might consider the concept of property ownership and its role in digital worlds, or whether or not I define the concept of property in the same way others do, but abstract philosophical examinations of my own opinions are a good thing (and still don't involve uncomfortable undergarments).

    Next up: I think I see part of the root of disagreements here.  Many people are responding to the issue of items on housing streets as they have been historically in the game.  However, most of the people clamoring for greater privacy on housing streets are talking about the new ones, where it has a much greater sense of privacy despite it still being a public area.  Just wanted to be sure that was clarified for people, do carry on!
    Posted 9 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
Previous 1 2