Topic

Community garden problem...Is this a possible solution??

Even if they eventually allow b0th herbs and gardens in one house garden there will still be glitches who need to grow stuff but wont have a house to do so from...
This isnt my idea...Just something I heard in one of the community gardens...
Stakes...You are given a certain number of stakes a day. Those stakes disapear at the end of the day to be replaced by the same number..You cant sell the stakes. They are for your use only and you can only use those and no more...When you plant something you can put a stake in it and it belongs to you..Once the plant is ready for harvesting either the plant goes directly to you or you are told that your plant is ready to harvest and you have X amount of time to pick it up or it becomes up for grabs...If you dont put a stake in your patch then the plot is considered up for grabs... Essentially a gift for someone to come along and take...This limits the amount of plots someone can hog for themselves and eliminates the people who come along and take what isnt theirs or the misunderstanding when someone plants something and someone comes along thinking the plot isnt anyones...Also helps if you get accidently disconnected and you dont have to sit there and hover over your plant...

Posted 12 months ago by ItsMe Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • I like this idea. I just had three plants stolen while I was away from the computer for a few minutes...and my glitch wasn't even AFK! Very sad about it. Anything that would help us plant and harvest while still enjoying the game would be great. As it is, I just stand and stand and wait and it isn't any fun. 
    Posted 12 months ago by skyranger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like this idea! However, some might see this as infringing on their ability to play "their way."
    Posted 12 months ago by Shiromisa Kaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you mean stopping thieves from playing "their way" then I am all for it!
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh yeah, I'm just saying if TS implements this, be ready for lots of complaining. XD
    Posted 12 months ago by Shiromisa Kaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like this idea as well
    Posted 12 months ago by Gadzooks Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is a very sensible idea and seems susceptible of a straightforward implementation.
    Posted 12 months ago by Fluxan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great idea, like the chickens when incubating eggs. They don't give the hatched piglet/caterpillar to anyone but you.
    Posted 12 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I believe that the community gardens are meant to be a little risky. After all, you're only there because you are denying to use the already existent private patches..This idea would make it so that buying houses nearly pointless. Also, shouldn't this be in the ideas forum?
    Posted 12 months ago by QuinnR Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Quinn: Right now, it'd be useful since you have to choose between a crop house and a herb house. After the housing update, though, who knows?
    Posted 12 months ago by Shiromisa Kaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why would anyone complain? You only have a limited number of stakes so you cant hog all the patches...They cant be stolen and you are still free to leave some as a gift...It seems to me that standing there guarding your plot isnt fun and even when you do someone comes along and still steals it..Doesnt seem right and doesnt allow the spirit of cooperation to flourish..Instead people become suspicious of others just sitting around... People would have other reasons for buying houses...Plus it still allows people to choose what they want to do..Not everyone wants a house and newbies dont tend to have homes right away...I know that newbies get upset when they try the gardens only to have their plants taken and complaining doesnt help since the rules allow you to steal from the gardens...Also wasnt there someone who was extorted?? If you didnt pay them theyd take your plants? They couldnt with the stakes idea..Its also simple to program into the game...
    Keep in mind this would work for both community herb and community gardens...I cant see a negative to it for any players except to those who want to takes others work..If their way is to steal well to bad..They can still take the ones that arent staked...
    Posted 12 months ago by ItsMe Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think its a pretty good idea since you only get a certain number. That way no one can just put stakes on the entire area. How many stakes do you think would be a fair number?
    Posted 12 months ago by Vinchon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think this sounds good. Something like three stakes a day might work, although I don't have a good sense of how many communal herb plots there are available.
    Posted 12 months ago by Theremina Lute Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If everyone who plays gets notice of having certain rights or a limited number of daily stakes in the community gardens it might make them think they should go and use those resources.   There are way too many players for that to be workable.   There would be so much competition to find an empty spot to plant something that people felt they had a "right" to plant and harvest.  New problems would emerge from the competition to use those spots people felt they were entitled to use.  

    I think when people use the community gardens they should not bring any sense of entitlement to the gardens.  There will always be some risk that others will not behave with courtesy but that doesn't mean that everyone won't.

    I went to visit my local community herb garden a few days ago to see what all the fuss was about and to give out some herbs.   Very paranoid feelings there for sure.  Very unglitch-like.   I had to get close to the crops to see what people were planting so as to give the sort of herb they appeared to want.   Some people were nice but mostly they all just wanted not to be bothered.  One person even gave me back the rubeweed I gave her!  First time in Glitch I've ever had a gift refused.    It was also hard to get near enough to any of the other people there (the ones who were checking in, not the ones guarding their seeds) to give them anything (too far away), people popped in, checked "their" plots, hopped around and disappeared.  Some people gave me other herbs back in return for what I had given them, which was more glitch-like but un necessary since I have/had lots (have had a bog house since reset and having been growing stockpiling regularly.  Not for any particular reason, just because I had the plot, thought the flowers were pretty, and couldn't grow anything else).   

    Anyway, my point is that its pretty hard to make a dent in the paranoid attitude in the gardens these days and I won't be going back to try again.   Introducing a more refined sense of entitlement won't solve the problem and will probably just increase the demand for community garden spots.  Personal "stakes"  would be fine if TS increases the supply of community garden spots, I just don't think it would work with the current limit of spots.  

    They could open up the unsold bog houses for  public gardening  use but no doubt that will introduce another batch of problems and potential conflict over the other resources in the houses.
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thumbs up!  This would leave room for both the folks who want to pick the same crops they planted and those who want to pick some and plant some, then wander off.  (Lurking around the community gardens for long periods guarding crops or going off and returning precisely when that patch should mature are both things that I can't really cope with, so when things are low-pressure in the community gardens I'm in the second camp, and when they're high-pressure I just don't touch them at all.)

    If the number of stakes per day is small enough, it wouldn't make house gardens obsolete, esp. since you still have to find free community garden plots to use them.
    Posted 12 months ago by Granny Weatherwax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some boxed-framed plots have 16 or so sections, some have only 3.
    I like this idea, but wonder how much groundspace a stake would be applicable to.
    If it applies to a full box-frame, some glitches would have a 5x advantage over others, and then the fighting would be over who's 'turn' is next at the larger frames.
    Just a thought.
    Posted 12 months ago by EastCutty Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There appear to be about 70 000 players in the game.  Maybe 20,000 active players.  How many stakes per day do you think would be appropriate given the number of community gardens vs the number of players?
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • edit: double post
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 3 to 4 (More if its workable but 3 or 4 to start) and each stake is for one planting spot..I dont think it would be as big a problem..maybe in the beginning but it would taper off...If the creators added another community garden and maybe enlarged all the current ones that would work...Also that house with the plots that one can visit..The stakes would work there as well..
    I think the entitlement thing is way overblown...Basically it would solve so many problems..Right now there are some folk who take up many slots, are unwilling to cooperate and may steal some of yours..With this each plot you stake will grow and once grown could say go to the gardener automatically. Plot is now free for the next person and said gardner now has one less stake..Each plot would only be occupied for the lenght of time the plant has to grow...No more having to go get guano (Unless you want to) so you can get in and out fast before people steal...
    Also keep in mind that of the many players in the game not all are going to want to garden..Many folk just buy the premade stuff. Look at the produce vendor..He sells vegetables that can be grown but people still go and buy from him regularly. I only buy from him for emergencies and things I cant grow..
    Posted 12 months ago by ItsMe Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You spend more time in the c ommunity gardens than I do but if you are saying that at present there are people who "are unwilling to cooperate"  what makes you think that will change with a system of "stakes".   Won't they just fight over planting in the spot that is about to be emptied?  Won't they be upset if they aren't fast enough to use any of their stakes for the day/week?   What's to stop the person growing in plot to inform their friend of choice of the exact time they expect to harvest or fertilize?  
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think there has traditionally been insufficient demand for the bog houses because the resources in those houses were not very profitable.   The inflated prices of herbs seems to be shifting that balance.   I always felt that meadow homes were too profitable relative to bog homes (and even relative to 30k mansions).   
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • in terms of usefulness, sure, it's useful. in terms of ease of use and views from bystanders, it's really not that great of an idea.

    what I mean by that is you're adding an extra barrier to the friendliness of the game. first off, having a stake visually shown on the garden shows to other people that you have no intention of sharing it. Now, whether that's true or not, and despite people currently not wanting to share their stuff, a stake will actually show it and prove to people that you're greedy and don't trust people. (even if all you're doing is just preventing thieves from taking something that you want multiple people to benefit from, you still end up looking like the villain by placing that stake). Now let's just look at it purely from an ease of use factor: you're adding an entire extra set of menus that must be gone through to confirm to the game that you wish to do a very specific action (it's about as annoying as donating stuff to shrines after you're already over the EXP limit, it's just another pop-up that will annoy you till the day resets, or in this case, until you run out of stakes).

    So with that in mind, here's a better idea: cut the middle-man of this suggestion.

    All crops/herbs should have the name of the person who planted them on the little description pop-up that shows the growth and water bars. Assuming you care at all about your crops/herbs, you're likely waiting there to harvest them, as you should be. After they are fully grown, if you're not on the street, they can be picked by anyone. if you're on the street, you have 5 minutes to pick them. To prevent someone from hogging the plot by spamming the enter button (since they would have control over when the plot is emptied) to replant something, the same person who picked from that plot cannot plant there for 1 minute after picking.

    ta-da

    Less menus, less fuss. If you're not on the street and people see that, your plots are free to be picked from. If you're on the street, likely next to your plots, you're already showing that you intend to pick them. If you AFK for too long, your plots are free to the first people to pick them.

    better yet:

    TS can rework farming/herbalism to work partly on the mining principle. When a plant is done growing, anyone within a certain time-frame (let's say likely 2-5 minutes) can harvest from it to get a smaller bounty than they would from growing it themselves (probably 10%~ish, actual vegetables for crops, seeds for herbs) and the person who provided the seed, if they harvest within that time-frame, get's the full bounty they normally would have no matter how many people have already harvested from it, and then the plant stays until the timer is up, and if the primary harvester doesn't pick it in those 5~ish minutes, then the plant goes up for grabs for anyone (including those who already picked it once) for the full bounty, and then disappears.

    Taking that approach would not only allow the person who planted the seed to be able to get their fair share, it would also benefit everyone else instead of punish everyone else for not being fast enough to plant their own stuff. Instead, they'd be saved their own materials while getting a bit of the bounty themselves. It'd also encourage team growing, such as random people going out to collect and apply guano to other people's plants, simply to get the bounty faster for everyone (maybe even give a bonus to the people who applied guano to the plant if not the original planter)

    You might complain that this would flood the market a bit more, but is that really such a problem in this game?
    Posted 12 months ago by Jurkowski Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What about if the only way you were able to get stakes were from a trade with Rube?
    Posted 12 months ago by Popcorn☺ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1
    Posted 12 months ago by Lady Cailia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think this is an amazing idea- I would use community gardens WAY more if I knew I could keep my harvest.
    Posted 12 months ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think this belongs in the ideas forum?
    Posted 12 months ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stakes may complicate things too much.  I think you should just be able to rent a community garden spot for a set amount per 12 hours, with limits on how many and how often.  Crops have set maturation times, so you should be able to determine when to return and harvest.   A plot you rent is yours and other glitchen cannot interact with it.  Simple and straightforward. 
    Posted 12 months ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The reason I don't vote for this idea is I would rather have the devs work on other areas of the game.

    It sounds a little baroque and like something that would have to be patched into the game.

    Also it 'fixes' a problem that is not universally seen as a problem.
    Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Honestly, this is an absolutely horrible idea. Do you want to time-share the community plots and destroy what little community remains there? This entire game is supposed to be centered around player control and interaction, and any instruments that are added to govern use of a resource must be implemented in a way that is fair to all players. With your method only a minimal fraction of the populace would be able to access the gardens. Most likely a single set of players would continue to claim plots so that no one else could use them, rotating alternate accounts in order to maintain a monopoly on the common plots.

    The only reasonable solution that TS can implement is to increase the amount of community gardens, scaling it to the increasing populace. Hopefully as Mazza'la expands [sooner better than later], we'll see more gardens, more sharing, and less whining.

    I'm sure that custom housing would help lower the scarcity of herb plots, but there will always be people who will wish to use the community plots.

    Edit: Can someone move this thread to the Ideas forum please?
    Posted 12 months ago by Tint Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like to have an herbalism III skill so that we can get a higher yield and increase the supply of herbs
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gnomes that you can place in front of your plots in the Community Gardens that shoot lazers from their eyes please.
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like that you're trying to solve the community garden problems and make life easier on everyone, but I see a problem with your stake solution.

    Right now when I want to farm herbs I first make a guano run (I can buy off the auctions but it's much cheaper for me to farm myself). When I get to the gardens I find a place not in use and start planning my herbs. Every herb I plan I then fertilize twice to speed up the process 90%. I can harvest purple every 6 min to yellow crumb every hour. By doing it this way I can stay by my herbs and make sure they are not stolen (there are the few who will steal right in front of you, generally I'll leave and come back later when they're not around if possible) and also get about 10x the yield that I would without guano.

    If you add stakes, you remove the incentive to use guano (in some cases) in which case can tie up the limited boxes for 10x as long, and therefore make a limited resource more limited. No everyone does not need to use guano for the gardening, and I've seen many people (myself included) plant herbs with the intention of allowing other people to come along and take them. But the current system encourages it which increases box turn over and allows more people to farm.

    This doesn't mean your plan won't work it just an impact that I think it will have.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Do you want to time-share the community plots and destroy what little community remains there?

    Yes, because most of the 'community' I hear about from the CGs is blatant thievery. 
    Posted 12 months ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I try to go to the CGs when they are fairly empty. At these times there maybe 1 to 5 other people and you can have some fun while you wait for your crops to spawn (charades potions, etc). The people who steal are the minority (but cause a majority of the problems and posts about the problem). Overall I would say there is a good community that occasionally gets ruined by a few. And generally when I go I expect that some herbs may be stolen so when it happens, which I still try to prevent, I'm not surprised by the fact.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • make the stakes craftable, something your tinkertool can make from wood.

    It teleports to you, there's a limit of 10 you can use in a day.

    This actually makes gardens faster, as the result is a tended plot ready for a new crop.
    Posted 12 months ago by ICountFrom0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think this is an interesting idea, but there are not enough community plots available to make it work.  I think you are underestimating how many people play this game and how many will want to use their three or four stakes each day (never mind 10).  
    Posted 12 months ago by Autumn Breeze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I say Herb Pots is the solution. For those who dont have herb garden in their houses . They can purchase or tinker a pot to go in there house to grow a herb. There can be a limit. and it's decorative!
    Posted 12 months ago by chelseaann Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think that the stakes wouldn't work.  Mostly because there are just not enough plots. The only way we can do stakes is if we make a community garden for each sector. 
    I think the idea where you only get 10% of the harvest if you take it is a good idea, and there should be a way to identify the plots. If there isn't people might harvest a crop that's not theirs accidentally because it's beside a crop that's the same as theirs. Herb pots are too expensive and difficult to make or buy especially for noobs. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Miniature Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For inspiration: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2072383/Eccentric-town-Todmorden-growing-ALL-veg.html

    This is how community gardening is supposed to work. <3
    Posted 12 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How are Herb Pots expensive when the price hasnt even been made. Plus dont under estimate Noobs. They can wheel and deal like the rest of us.
    Posted 12 months ago by chelseaann Subscriber! | Permalink
  • They would have to be made expensive other wise no one would buy a house primarily for herbs or go to a community herb garden.
    Posted 12 months ago by Miniature Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No Miniature. I disagree. There would be a limit on how many pots you can have. A bog House would definaitely have MORe benefits.More plots for more herbs I find people like goals to earn things to buy and such. They will mine harder to buy a Cubimal that they dont have and pay up the nose for it. SO a pot for your house is simple makes people happy . Why not?.
    Posted 12 months ago by chelseaann Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like this idea.  I suggested something similar a long time ago in the ideas forum.  (Mine was for parking meters, haha.. I like your stakes better.)
    Posted 12 months ago by Wintera Woodswitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I want this to be a friendly game. But this herb growing in the community gardens is very frustrating. When I bought my house I didn't know there were options of gardens. I didn't know I wouldn't be able to plant "flower seeds" in my garden. Now I have this quest to make tinctures and when I go down to the community garden to plant/guano/water/wait it's very disheartening when someone comes along and takes the plant the second it's ready. Or when someone is standing in front of a plot I've planted and I can't get to it as easily. I purchased an herb at auction, planted the two seeds I got after shucking, fertilized it and waited. And the second it was ready the glitch standing next to me snatched it. When I asked them they said they didn't take it. What's the deal with that? Of course people are paranoid and twitchy about the gardens because there are unkind people...even in glitch :(
    Posted 12 months ago by skyranger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think gardening is still the last major harvesting activity that has yet to be (for a lack of a better term) socialized for Glitch, similar to mining and harvesting from trees which have very little impact (or even benefits) from other people trying to do the same thing you are.

    I'm sure Tiny Speck is trying to figure out a solution to this and I'd love to see what they come up with.  The whole stake idea as someone above pointed out would have problem simply with available plots vs total glitches.  Hopefully with the housing changes they will provide the ability to not only plant herbs or crops on the same plots but the ability to buy more plots significantly.  
    Barring housing changes, an interesting solution that comes to mind would be if everyone who puts effort into bringing a crop to full growth gets some portion (or additional) of the harvest.  So the person planting the seeds, tending the plot, watering and finally harvesting would all get a percentage of the result based on how much work they put in.  There would have to be a good delivery system (it could clog up mailboxes badly) but other than that it doesn't sound to bad.
    Posted 12 months ago by Chee42 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The solution is for you to not grow crops and buy a Firebog house, or to get a friend and buy/share houses. 
    Posted 12 months ago by QuinnR Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's my .02 - the community gardens are there for the community. Starting to implement ownership on something that should be a community resource only contributes to greed. You should go into the gardens under the impression that anything you plant there is fair game, and not yours once it leaves your inventory. I agree with what has been said above, if you want your own herbs, buy a firebog house. They've given you a decision, and the rest of the community shouldn't have to play by your rules just because you chose one way.
    Posted 12 months ago by Xupa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For the most part I have remained out of this conversation but I think time for me to put in my 2 currents worth.

     Xupa you say, "Starting to implement ownership on something that should be a community resource only contributes to greed. You should go into the gardens under the impression that anything you plant there is fair game, and not yours once it leaves your inventory."

    Now how is it considered greed if the person has used their OWN seeds, guano, etc? Those items were not considered a community resource at all. The person running up and stealing what is NOT theirs is greed... pure and simple. So how is that asking for others to play by their rules? It isn't. Theft is theft pure and simple. The thief did not plant the seeds, or fertilize them, water them, or tend them. They are simply taking what is NOT theirs.

    Not everyone wants a bog house and therefore uses the community herb garden. Why should anyone be victimized for that choice? They shouldn't. I have to agree with the large consensus here. There needs to be a way that a plot can be locked to that user if it is in use to prevent theft.

    Just to let you know though, I have never used a community plot, veggie or herb, so I am sitting on the sidelines looking in on this situation and I see players that are being thieves rather distasteful.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "You should go into the gardens under the impression that anything you plant there is fair game, and not yours once it leaves your inventory."

    This.  +1
    Posted 12 months ago by Autumn Breeze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Xupa I don't use the community gardens but from what I've observed, many thieves use that same word you use "fair game". And there are some people that are frequent victims to your "fair game". And as Casombra said not everyone wants to relocate. I came into this game not even knowing that there were two types of houses to begin with.
    Posted 12 months ago by Vinchon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some of us chose houses with crop garden plots.  We made that choice because we have priorities in the game that make some of the attributes of those houses more important to us than having plots that grow herbs.  

    It seems to me to be arrogant to then claim that we should also be able to (literally) stake a claim in the community herb plots.  

    Unless (until) the game is redesigned so that we don't have to make such choices, then each of us will have to decide what house elements are most crucial to our game play and buy houses that give us the best playing advantage.  But once we've done that, whining that we don't like the choice we have made seems to be petty to say the least.
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
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