Topic

An Unofficial Plea from a Live Help guide

One this day of great change, I understand there will be tons of questions. PILES AND PILES OF QUESTIONS. That's understandable and great.

But all it would be so much awesomesauce if, before you turn to LIve Help, you take a moment to see if you can find answers in other places.

• If you think you have found a bug, take a gander at the Bug Forum. Do a quick scan to see if any of the recent topic might address your problem.  Also, take a look at the Known Issues post.

• Read the FAQ. Here's a link to the housing stuff.

* Before asking HOW to do something, try it! Experiment! Poke around at things. It is really really hard to do wrong.

• If you think you may have lost stuff in the move, really really check before you come to Live Help. Saying "I think I may be missing stuff" is not a problem easily addressed. Once you really believe you are missing something, the best action is probably filing a Help/Bug case. The Guides really can't do much besides telling you possible places to look. And Staff will have their hands full. File a report and Staff will get to it as quickly as they can. If you have ever filed one, you know they are damn quick about responding.

• Global may have the answer... and it may very well be quicker.

• If there are changes that you dislike... things that work in ways you think should work differently... are upset over the cost of things... Live Help really can't help. We don't have that power, in any shape or form. But Tiny Speck DOES want to hear it! So post constructive criticism and ideas how to make it different in the ol' Idea Forum. They read it. All of it. Really. You might not get a response but they do read it.

• We love having Live Help be a friendly, casual light hearted place... but don't go off on tangents for too long. Especially on days like today (I expect). ESPECIALLY drop any causal, bantering once another question is asked.

• Along those lines, asking subjective questions ("What's the best blah blah?" and the like) are best suited for Global. As are any strategy questions.

• And please come with patience. Tons and tons of patience.

Thanks,
LBO

P.S. - I'm so excited!

Posted 7 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • This should be sticky. Good job, milord.
    Posted 7 months ago by Jarhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nice, Lord B
    Posted 7 months ago by Li'll Missy Brenda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Agree that it deserves some kind of sticky. Well put, O Guide Who First Welcomed Me :)

    P.S. I'm excited too!
    Posted 7 months ago by Stuv Subscriber! | Permalink
  • excellent. :)
    Posted 7 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am in total agreement LBO, excellent suggestions!
    Posted 7 months ago by miskey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Very true ~totally agree! =)
    Posted 7 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • P.P.S.  I am too!!!  :D
    Posted 7 months ago by RainyRain Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I know the wiki doesn't have stuff on new changes but in general I wish people would google (glitch wiki -topic of interest-) before they asked live help.
    Posted 7 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Agreed. As Guides, we LOVE helping people to love Glitch even more. We'll do our best to answer your questions (even if we've answered the exact same question eleventy times already), but also remember we learn about things pretty much the same way you do - by trying it out, playing the game, and keeping up with the FAQ and forum posts.

    P.S. I'm really REALLY excited!!
    Posted 7 months ago by Zany Serendipity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *stickies this with Humbaba's Own-brand superglue*
    Posted 7 months ago by Laerwen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ...of course, I just realized that chances are if you are reading this in the forums, you are the type to help yourself anyway...
    Posted 7 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for sticky.
    Posted 7 months ago by Sweet Stuff Ng Subscriber! | Permalink
  • but it's an awesome link  to give to the eleventy billionth person who asks.  
    Posted 7 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If I can be in live help today I might be having the link to this thread copied and ready to paste...

    edit - (or, what WindBorn said!)
    Posted 7 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • When iMG was released, they started an info party chat. Be sure to do that with your friends, I'm sure you'll find the answer to many things quickly that way :) 
    Posted 7 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks, m'Lord!
    Posted 7 months ago by Brigitte Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Diaveborn, I'm of two minds on googling/wiki-ing for game help -- because finding answers that way often leads you to spoilers, or just more information than you need.  If people are stuck, they should be able to get unstuck without having to resort to third-party sources like that.  But if you want really specific/detailed information, not because you're stuck but because you want to optimize, or you're just curious, yeah, those are the way to go on things that have been out for a while.  (And for that kind of question on brandy-new stuff, asking on global, an appropriate group, or the forums for help organizing the research is probably the best bet.)
    Posted 7 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I only recently took a first look at the Live Help group recently when Global was quiet to see what kind of things are asked and I was really shocked the type of things people were asking that could easily be found elsewhere. Judging from the type of questions asked I think people need to be a bit more resourceful when trying to find the answer to their question.

    I'm not an online gamer at all but when I am trying to find the answer to something I always look on the forums, FAQ's, check game updates on a daily basis and if all else fails drop in on global. I have had tons of crazy things happen in game but have never felt the need to bother the people on Live Help (but know they would be happy to help if needed).

    I wish Lord Bacon-O's post could be pinned for people who feel they need an immediate answer so they aren't reliant on something which should be reserved for emergency/more complex situations.

    Kudos to the people who answer the questions on Live Help on a daily basis as I certainly don't know how long my patience would last with people who repeatedly abuse the channel. Keep up the good work.
    Posted 7 months ago by Cleops Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fnibbit, I'm basically talking about people who are specifically asking for that kind of really detailed info. And yeah, today not so much :) but if this does become a sticky or whatever.

    Cleops, you've reminded me about how I think it would be neat to have a better explanation for the opening live-help popup.
    Posted 7 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks LBO for posting this.

     I would like to add the obvious suggestion of:  TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS

    Chances are, they have been looking for this information too and some may already know the answer.
    Posted 7 months ago by Mer Maid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fnibbit, we need a channel for the future tense questions that get asked in Live Help.  

    You know, the ones that start:  
    When will ......
    How soon will..
    Is TS ever going to  ....
    Is TS considering ......
    Can you tell us if ......

    And all the other questions asking for insider information that Guides don't know and staff won't reveal.  
    Posted 7 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Staff, can you sticky this? This is clear, succinct, and helpful. Hopefully this will actually help with the drama!
    Posted 7 months ago by Lady Cailia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm for letting the live help guides in early, along with the staff.  
    Posted 7 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • poke it....poke it real good
    Posted 7 months ago by phelps.mike Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *high fives Treesa!*
    Posted 7 months ago by RainyRain Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree that this should be a sticky. As one that often has that channel open, I am always impressed by the patience and tactfulness of the guides and staff. They are awesome. LBO's suggestions should be incorporated into a resource guide for new players along with a listing of the many player developed sites like glitchaddict and zog's glitchy tools and of course the wiki.
    Posted 7 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Diave - that is a terrific idea. A better group/purpose descriptor for Live Help would be ideal.
    Posted 7 months ago by Cleops Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Even as a run-of-the-mill player, I like to prep by having windows open and links at the ready so I can point friends in group chat or IMs to sources to substantiate my info. The more accurate and official the info the better--it's a great way to quell anxieties and nip rumours or incorrect info in the bud, and it's something we can all do to help.
    Posted 7 months ago by Voluptua Sneezelips Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Guides and Greeters have big respect from me for putting up with a ton of flak. You guys are awesome, and I hope that people read this thread.

    After all, it DOES say when you click on Live Help that it's just that: Live Help, and if you have questions concerning the game, go to Global. That's why I don't hang out in Live Help, I only use it for questions and concerns when I think there may be a bug or abuse going on.
    Posted 7 months ago by Ayasta Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Spam notes throughout common places or Ur?
    Posted 7 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The problem with asking Global is that it's just very high traffic and is usually preoccupied with shenanigans and hijinks. It's a little bit like walking into a rowdy disco bar where bikers, caffeinated teenage girls, and meth addicts are all very busy doing shots and dancing on the tables - and asking them for help putting together a bookshelf. 

    This might be a good time to consider making a channel which is player-helping-player (informal, game-related questions, not global) and leave Live Help for those questions which *really* require dev/guide support. 

    There are players who delight in figuring out mechanics and those who really, really don't. I think it's OK to help people with basic questions instead of tormenting them with Yoda riddles and telling them to just go play and figure it out - sometimes. Other times I wonder why people who don't want to play are playing at all. Want me to come move that mouse around for you too? Sheesh. 

    Live Help has got its frequent non-staff helpers and I'm sure they would be happy to be helpful in a channel dedicated to players helping players, and maybe let Live Help answers deal with higher order technical and game problems. 

    I don't think this should be a group - I think LH gets spammed because you don't have to join a group to use it, and people only find out about groups from forum, and only a small percentage of players use forums at all. How about another channel for lower-order, non-technical, non-bug, non-staff-needed questions? 

    Helpline? Glitchline? Helperators? Five Cents? Whatever. 

    I know devs are crazy busy but if opening another channel that is open instead of group-related could be done easily, having a first-tier peer help channel that can escalate to guides (who escalate to devs) could really, really help. 

    And it will cut down on the "five people answering a question at once only one of whom is a guide" thing. 
    Posted 7 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I'm baffled by this thingy" is just as welcome in live help as "this thingy is broken" (and LH isn't the right place to report abuse, though we're always happy to help people find the "Block/Report" link).  It's great for people to figure things out themselves or use the documentation, and ideally people would all be able to do that, but I don't want people to feel bad about reaching the limits of their ability to figure something out and bringing it to us.  (Global knows many things; it also moves really fast, and in some other ways can be hard to extract information from.)

    If you've read this far, odds are decent that on day 1 of imagination, you could have (if you thought of them) used the resources and approaches LBo mentioned up top to find out where the "back to world" button went -- and the more of you who do that for whatever today's question-of-the-day turns out to be, the easier we'll have it.  But the folks who asked Live Help that question on day 1 were not abusing LH at all. Click the iMG cloud in the top left!  I'll happily say it to as many stuck-in-their-house glitchen as I need to.
    Posted 7 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree that the non-guide helpers in the help channel should be in a channel of players helping players.   When I do resort to going to live help its because I want a TS endorsed answer on something that I've been getting confusing answers about from friends.   The non guide "helpers" mean well but often interupt and have, in the past, sometimes given wrong answers or misguided advice.   Its time consuming to explain that to them when I'm already in the midst of whatever problem I need to get answers for.
    Posted 7 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • But would this mean an end to LBo's snarky updates about people who annoy him in Live Help? Because picking on him for those is kind of fun.
    Posted 7 months ago by Sirentist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I know the wiki doesn't have stuff on new changes but in general I wish people would google (glitch wiki -topic of interest-) before they asked live help."  Or in Global.
    Posted 7 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to have this stickied!
    Posted 7 months ago by Mocha Maid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, like Aviatrix said though, sometimes Global can ignore questions.

    I would totally hang out on a players-helping channel.
    Posted 7 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fnibbit, I'm not suggesting that LH be curtailed in its mission, and I didn't say anything or mean to suggest in any way that questioners are "abusing" it, but I usually keep it open and read it (sort of like a little old lady with a police scanner) and I think a player-helping-player channel could really be useful. There was a time when LH was for technical questions and those which weren't were directed to Global and that has changed, probably because of the noise-to-signal ratio in Global. 

    A player-helping-player channel would fit the social aspect of the game and relieve some of the pressure that hits LH during updates and holy wow, when the game opens up to new players again it could be pretty great. 

    Obviously players can choose where they want to ask their questions, I'm not saying LH guides should tell askers to go ask somewhere else. But I think an informal peer support channel which isn't as rowdy as Global is objectively a very fine idea. 

    It would also give the unbadged folks who camp in LH and jump on questions a place to answer questions without confusing/contradicting/muddling the waters when players want a clear channel to staff/guides. As others have said in this thread, that can be a problem. 
    Posted 7 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Live Help has two unofficial rules:
     - have you tried a reload? (although that's reserved for things we already know about... new & previously unknown weirdnesses are always worth bug reporting before reloading so that staff can check them out)
     - try it and see

    We've talked about having more information on the Live Help intro warning... maybe one line answers to the top 3 questions of the day. I'm not entirely convinced it would get read though.
    Posted 7 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sometimes guides give wrong answers.  Sometimes staff give wrong answers!  On balance, the un-badged live-helpers contribute far, far more than they detract.  And Live Help *is* a channel of players helping players.  Guides are there to help direct traffic, escalate questions to staff as needed, and having that badge indicates staff thinks we're pretty good at finding helpful answers for people.  But at the end of the day, we're player volunteers, not the Oracle at Delphi.

    If all that will serve is an official TS-approved answer, the bug report/help ticket system is the way to get that.  But it won't usually be as fast as live help, because there aren't as many people to handle it.  And adding another tier of less-official help channel would, I think, just add yet another chat tab for guides to have open.
    Posted 7 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought the point would be that guides wouldn't have to have it open. If the players couldn't answer it they could say so and recommend the guide channel.
    Posted 7 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Is it possible to have a link to this show up when someone first clicks to enters the Live Help forum, during the 'are you aware of what this is for' disclaimer? That way they might think to read it even if they don't usually read forums.
    Posted 7 months ago by Cathriara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fnibbit, guides would not have to leave that channel open. 

    I really don't see why you're so resistant to the idea, but we can agree to disagree on it. I think it would be helpful, I don't see anyone else disagreeing with that, and maybe staff/devs will agree. It's certainly not a criticism of you or any of the guides to make this suggestion; quite the contrary. 
    Posted 7 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok, so, I teach.  I've taught every age from pre school through college age kids, minus 2nd and 3rd graders, in either a formal class or in a science museum workshop.

    Here's what I know.

    1.PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN/READ. It does not matter how you put it, how you make it look, how you present it to them- lots of them are going to just sail merrily right past the info they need to be successful.  You can even come right out and say "HEY! THIS! RIGHT HERE! THIS!".......and they still will miss it somehow.

    2. Because of #1 people will variously: not follow directions, be frustrated, be angry, not know what to do when, and eventually tune you out and not be successful in the task. 

    3. Repeated information in various formats is basically the only way to make sure everyone can be successful in the task. Yes, it's exasperating to be the one repeating....but you're helping and it's working!

    THUS, live help folks- have a drink, or 7.  I think you need to just keep doing exactly what you're doing. It's perfect. 
    Posted 7 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cathriara, not sure if a link would be clicked by most people, but having something there might be helpful. Cause "I will only use this channel for help" can mean help with bugs, help with intelligent questions, and help figuring out how to make salt, and if there was a bit more distinction it would be nice, I think, because it seems to be needed.

    Because as a new player I could think well, I need help with how to make salt, or what vendor to find something at, or whatever, and go into live help and not understand why I'm getting hints and cryptic messages instead of the type of help I was expecting.

    So maybe just a message "we don't like to give gameplay spoilers" or something like that - very simple and won't eliminate the spoiler-type questions altogether but it could help.
    Posted 7 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Semi-related... One of my favorite (and much repeated) mottos for Live Help/Glitch in general:

    Give a Glitch a fish and he eats for a Game Day.
    Teach a Glitch to fish and— WHAT!?! We can fish now? Where do buy a fishing rod?! Where are ponds!? Why am I not catching anything?!
    Posted 7 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Give a glitch directions to Uncle Friendly's or a grocery vendor and he's gonna have fish for more than one day. ;-)
    Posted 7 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In practice, if there were a player-to-player help channel specifically not for guides, guides would keep it open so that, when a question got escalated, the person who needed the help wouldn't have to re-iterate their whole conversation explaining the problem.

    I think it's not so much that I'm resistant to this idea as that it's *already in place*, but LH isn't the tier you think it is.

    Anyhoo, I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings or making anyone angry, since I think everyone in this thread is being thoughtful and has useful things to say.

    All the best, and

    F5F5F5F5F5
    Posted 7 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We've all been so busy thanking Tinyspeck (well deserved thanks I might add) that I forgot how much the live help guides have helped me on many an occasion and my family who also play this wonderful game!

    So here is my thank you to all the live help guides/players and staff too who always help whoever asks any kind of game related question with patience and on occasion humour.  Your help on the 'live help' channel is greatly appreciated - thank you for giving up your game time to lend a hand to others : ) 
    Posted 7 months ago by ~Arabesque~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah.. your first paragraph makes sense to me Fnibbit.
    Posted 7 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
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