Topic

A Critique of Glitch

The issues I have (in a nutshell - tl;dr):

- Repetitive mechanics
- No room for imagination, besides some perversion related to exploiting repetitive mechanics (e.g. lots of pigs, lots of gravestones, lots of X)
- Community consisting of people who like repetitive mechanics
- No end in sight
- No narrative structure whatsoever (besides the quite flat and elliptical "rook" narrative)
- You can actually DO EVERYTHING in the game (no tradeoffs)
- Gamification = BLECH

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What I like(d):

- Good graphics
- Complicated decision tree
- Side-quests at the beginning of the game
- Initially, most of the people I met were cool (now everyone I meet sucks)

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When I first signed up to play this game, I was intrigued by the fact that it was called "A game of giant imagination." After playing for a good number of hours, I was disappointed to find out that there was absolutely no imagination whatsoever involved in playing the game - that instead it consisted of a lot of long/complicated causal chains - e.g. Squeeze chickens -> Grind flour -> Make rolls -> Make sandwiches -> Eat sandwiches -> more energy -> mine -> grind ore -> etc. etc. etc. But the thing is, these chains are already laid out - there's no room for innovation. In fact, as far as actual gameplay is concered, there's no room to do pretty much anything that hasn't been plotted out for you.

I was initially excited by the game, however, as I played more, as I filled out my set of skills (now almost complete, despite my not having played the game for about a month), as I got all the stuff there was to get (besides meaningless items like cubinals, icons, etc.), I had this intense and growing feeling of: "what now?" 

Seriously, what now?

Some people will answer: become part of the community. 

Why would I become part of a community of people who are devoted to performing extremely repetitive tasks? What exactly is the lynchpin of the community, besides this? Presumably we can't find that big of a divide between the dynamics of the game and the people who play it, right? As in, the people who would be part of the community are precisely the people who actually like the mechanics, which I precisely do not like. Is there even a community?

Some people will respond: well, this game isn't for everyone.

Well, who is it for? Is it for people who like mindlessly clicking? Click click mine click click mine click click mine... (3 hours later) click click grind click click grind... (10 minutes later) click click create hallowed shrine powder (repeat all day).

I am also disappointed in the pervasive and obvious elements of "gamification" in glitch. Badges? Really? Quests which are of the form: "do X and Y and Z?" Really? Whose idea was that? Because that person needs to be fired. Gamification is soul-destroying. Gamification invites in the worst among us and rewards the basest of our values. Yay! I got a badge!!! Who cares?

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I will say that I'm in absolute AWE of what the team at Tiny Speck has been able to accomplish. In every dimension related to technical/design aspects of the game, it has been flawlessly executed. On top of that, the systems that constitute the game are well defined and rich.

However, what is missing from the game is the ability to make it matter to people who: 

1.) Don't already have lots of friends who play the game
2.) Aren't interested in mindlessly clicking for hours for the ability to mindlessly click for hours in some other way

I guess I happen to be one of those people.

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I've been reading the forums for some time, and most of the feedback that I see is very positive - people excitedly pouring hours (days, weeks, ...) into doing extremely repetitive tasks (collecting hundreds of pigs, hundreds of pumpkins, etc.). I guess maybe it's the computer scientist in me, but I think repetitive tasks are for machines/computers, not humans. It's honestly BIZARRE to me that the feedback has been so positive. The game has good points, yeah, but where are the critiques? Does no one share this feeling of "what now?" that pervades the game?

I'm posting this because I expect there are a lot of people (like me) who don't like glitch, and don't like it for the right reasons. I'd love it if this game took a turn for the better, but in my mind this means that we need some dissenting voices, not just rampant fanboys who imported all of their cyber-friends into yet-another-chatroom.

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I am emboldened by Tiny Speck's decision to move the game back to Beta. Perhaps they saw active use drop off as everyone except for the least bore-able among us decided that it would be more fun to actually squeeze chickens and massage butterflies. I also like the fact that they're trying to take things in a direction in which we can actually use our imaginations. 

However, I hope that the game doesn't just become another second life, or another minecraft, though admittedly that would be better than the pastel/bland/non-violent (though beautiful) WoW that it has become.

Posted 13 months ago by Fergles Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Can always quit.

    Or.. wait for updates.
    Posted 13 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I believe your objections are the very reasons why TS decided to take the game back to beta. I expect Glitch to change a lot in the coming months, for the better.

    I don't get this from your post: "(now everyone I meet sucks)" Why?

    But yes, visuals (and music, and writing) are the best part of the game.
    Posted 13 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Re: Volkov - it's true, and I basically have quit at this point. I guess I devote like 2-3 minutes a day to Glitch (mostly checking the forum). That being said, I think that the people who made the game are really talented, and that they care about it a great deal, so I wanted to make some contribution (even if somewhat critical).

    Re: Ximenez - everyone I meet now (well, more like a month ago) talks exclusively about game mechanics, collectable items, or is a fanboy (wow, glitch is great! isn't this great!?!?!?!?!). Before that, people were more weird/creative, which was nice.

    Yeah, I forgot to mention music and writing. The music is great. The writing references pop culture a little bit too much for my tastes, but is otherwise pretty good.
    Posted 13 months ago by Fergles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the tutorial gives the wrong idea, even the skills description is a little bit deceptive. 

    all games are repetitive in essence, click many times to kill many zombies... even when you play against a human opponent, for example in chess, you end up repeating at least a couple of basic moves, or a technique you know it works well. I think that some people like that, if you do A and B, you'll get C, there is a security, no surprises. 

    there is a little bit of narrative, in the tower quest and others, I guess I don't care, because in most games I just press enter to skip the dialogues. 

    I also have doubts about how is it going to be interesting in the long run, unless TS releases new skills and quests every week or so, after I get a couple more badges, I'm not going to have anything to do, and I'm not a big fan of the community, some people are cool, but dealing with people is also complicated. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Natalia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • inb4 people asking for his/her stuff.
    Posted 13 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch is a lot like life. If you're bored, you're boring. etc, etc, etc.
    Posted 13 months ago by Mablem Tiipot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Re: Dr. Hackenbush - There are many crucial differences between Glitch and life. Why the pejorative? Could you not construct a real point?

    Re: Natalia - What keeps you playing the game, at this point?
    Posted 13 months ago by Fergles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Natalia: I'm not sure what you mean about the tutorial. I just joined a few days ago, so if you joined earlier it might have changed, but all it did for me was teach me to do the basic stuff--planting/watering/petting/harvesting trees, interacting with animals, etc. Besides that, the skills descriptions...basically just say what the skill will allow you to do, use certain items, the bonuses you get, all that.
    Posted 13 months ago by Shiromisa Kaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • re: Fergies. I could construct a point, if it was worth it.
    Posted 13 months ago by Mablem Tiipot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So you're a fanboy if you...enjoy the game? Okay then. It's nice to know that only boys play glitch though!
    Posted 13 months ago by Pyrrhocorax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't really understand the point of complaining about the game as it is right now, and in the same post admitting that it will be completely changed soon for the exact same reasons that the complaints are being made. Many people have said these things before, the staff have listened, and they are making such sweeping changing that they had to unrelease the game. What more do you want from them? Blood?
    Posted 13 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for Shepherdmoon's comment
    Posted 13 months ago by Woochi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have to concur with the OP. The game that is all about creativity and imagination sorely lacks options for players to exercise both.

    That said, I really find the overall style/concept of the game appealing. A nice change from other MMOs out there, hence why I'm still playing despite merely making currency everyday in hope that someday I can put them to good use.

    Here's wishing we get a nice x'mas present from the devs in the form of revamped housing system. If they let us design our own layout/architecture, then I'm SOLD!
    Posted 13 months ago by Wayfarer Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think there can be value in articulating what you don't like and would like to see improved. After all, TS is in the midst of making changes, and they've been very open to feedback and suggestions along the way.  That said, it helps if criticisms are done in a constructive way.
    Posted 13 months ago by Knitomaton Subscriber! | Permalink
  • http://www.glitch.com/blog/ . In particular, read the 4th paragraph of "The Big Unlaunching".

    EDIT: Oh, this is even better!: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/02/mmobility-tiny-speck-explains-glitchs-big-unlaunching/
    Posted 13 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Fergles: FWIW, I generally agree with your concerns and am lurking to see what changes will be made. It looks like some of the new potions may have some creative uses rather than being useful only to further optimize your grinding. Also, the changes to houses that TS has been talking about in the forums sound like they are focusing on allowing more player creation.

    The drop-off you allude to has been mentioned in the forums on and off. Usually it's players who are around level 25-30, have most of the skills, and realize that their skills can mostly only be used to optimize their ability to level / earn currants / earn badges for repetition. Earning xp and currants is actually quite easy compared with other games that use similar constructs. It's as though there's a fun illusion while you're learning new things, and then once you have the entire suite of capabilities there isn't actually much to do. I dropped off significantly during beta at this point, and am starting to drop off again.

    @Natalia: many games of this nature are repetitive in essence, but they don't have to be only repetitive. Take Minecraft as a counter-example. You have to perform repetitive tasks to collect materials and craft (sometimes repetitively) to make materials into items, but then you can construct imaginative and unique creations out of those items. Glitch is all of the gathering/crafting and almost none of the creation.
    Posted 13 months ago by mirth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really like that I can do anything and there are no real goals or an end. I love when my daughter is in bed and I have an hour to myself to go in to the game and do some mining or maybe catch some fireflies, anything I want. I played Animal Crossing on the DS every day for five years, I'm certain I will play Glitch for many many years.
    Posted 13 months ago by Octo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ditto to all of the folks who replied "that's why we're in Mo' Beta now," but I want to add another point.

    For some of us "the game" is not The Game. What's so great about a pad of paper and a pencil? You can draw. You can write. You can tear sheets off and make shapes out of the paper. You can trade notes with friends. These things do not come from the paper and pencil. They come from our imaginations.

    Examples? Check out some of the Glitch groups: Glitchen University, The State University of Ur, Ima's General Store, Mal'ahk's Plant & Animal Nursery, and Spooooky Ghost Tour Planning Association! ... or just earch for "church".
    Though my favorite example of Glitchen creativity of all time is Xev's Underground Splanking Ring.

    This is not a "game" like most people are used to. It's not competitive. It's not a test. I'd say it's more like a social experiment. It's a little like Minecraft or DwarfFortress. It's a little like a MOO, especially since TS published a useful API. It's a little like Ultima Online (Knights of Glory and Beer for life!).  Someone made a grand piano in Ultima Online out of random bits of stuff.  It wasn't playable, obviously, but the put it near a window of their house so people would see it as they walked by.  It was amazing.

    Glitch doesn't compare to regular games because it's not trying to solve the same problem. It's providing a place for us to explore and interact with each other creatively. TS is doing everything they can to put the power to share with us the power to improve the game. They provide the tools and some seed content, but a large portion comes from us. If this doesn't sound appealing to you, this probably isn't the game for you.
    Posted 13 months ago by Crag Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with many of the OP's gripes and that they should/will be addressed in the near future. 

    However it seems that a main point has been missed, that being the multiplayer aspect. Yes, much of the game is repetitive and grindy (though I think 'mindless' a bit much), but the tools and skills in place are meant to be coupled with those of other players. For example, my wife has learnt all of the Animal Kinship skills. I bought her a 30k house in Alakol and we spent about an hour tonight setting things up. She dropped the Feeder/Collectors, I gave her food with which to stock the Feeder. She can make eggs, I made the bubbles and fruit and other components and gave them to her to be made into eggs and so on.

    It's that kind of exchange that Glitch is about. Have TS given us ample opportunity to exercise it? No. We've mostly been left to our own devices (and the community has done much, I think) but all evidence point them creating a world with more imagination and more opportunity for cooperation, teamwork, and coordination - that, I think, is where Glitch has shined and will continue to shine.
    Posted 13 months ago by shipwreck Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Re: Crag - I agree with your point, to an extent, and perhaps this just wasn't the game for me. 

    The point that I was trying to get out (which user "mirth" expressed fairly succinctly) is that the game kind of feels like a lie - you make constant "progress" in the MMO sense, getting badges and whatnot, until at some point it just feels like there really isn't anything to do, anymore. 

    I agree that there are technically things to do, however all the stuff you mentioned seemed pretty lame to me. More specifically, it seemed like it could just as easily have been done in an IRC channel or chatroom.

    The point that I think a lot of people who like the (current) Glitch community are missing is that the form of the game is intimately related to the type of community that grows out of it. I like massively interactive games with high degrees of freedom and complexity (e.g. go, chess, dwarf fortress - although I will say that DF suffers from a lot of the same feeling of "now what?" that this game does), or with high degrees of skill required (ikaruga, shooters in general, though not FPS's for whatever reason). Relatedly, I like some of the community that springs up around these things. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't like the community that has sprung up around this game which I assess as moderately interacting and having a moderate degree of complexity and a relatively low degree of freedom. Some people who seem to like this game (e.g. user Octo above who just wants to have an amorphous "firefly catching session") don't really care about things like its complexity or available degrees of freedom.

    It's OK if the form of the game isn't one that I like, though. People who like games that I don't like have to go somewhere and do something. If Tiny Speck wants to make a bland garden for them to walk around in, that's fine.

    More constructively, I think that there are a few concrete consequences of this:

    1. I think that TS may have to throw out some aspects of the game. I hope they do. I hope they get rid of badges, make skills WAY harder to learn, and either improve the quests, or get rid of them. 

    1a. One way they could improve the quests is by making them tied to locations, and perhaps related to some sort of riddle or something? I just wish there was more depth to them. It's kind of lame to learn a new skill and have the quest be: "use the skill some!"

    1b. Badges are lame. Gamification is lame. Scrap it and you will simplify the codebase and create more room for actual, interesting, game dynamics. 

    1c. If skills are way harder to learn then there will be some (much needed) scarcity in the game. Scarcity makes for interesting dynamics. I like the trend of getting rid of vendors which create stuff that glitchens can create. 

    2. I think that TS has a great opportunity to branch out and really create some cool user dynamics. Here are some things I'd like to see in the game:

    2a. The ability for users to create zones more easily/freely. 

    2b. The ability for users to make more complex and extreme choices related to their character's properties - e.g. walking speed, height, width, alliance to a giant/giants. Relatedly, increased ability for users to change these properties as they level up.

    2c. The ability for users to create quests? Not sure what this would look like.

    2d. The ability for users to craft unique items.

    -----

    I mean, it's really hard for me to say what would actually make me happy in this game. Perhaps I really liked the illusion that I was somehow becoming more powerful, and when that illusion faded (around level 25) I got bored and left. I think that this game would be a win (for me) if it allowed me to ACTUALLY get powerful, to create worlds with their own dynamics which people could explore (and give feedback on, and alter in interesting ways), to have dominion over people in certain ways, to be involved in complex politics, etc. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Fergles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, what do you people think about gamification? Are you as disgusted by it as I am? Do you agree that it is soul destroying?
    Posted 13 months ago by Fergles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • " - You can actually DO EVERYTHING in the game (no tradeoffs)"

    Wait.

    Wait.

    That's a BAD thing?

    I don't like the masses of repetitive mechanics, but one of the reasons I'm playing this game in the first place is because of the conceptually entertaining skills... and because I could pick any of them I wanted, and eventually get them all. I don't want to have to make a million alts to experience most facets of the game.

    I agree with the rest of the post, though perhaps not so harshly.
    Posted 13 months ago by Not A Brontosaurus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fergles, obviously this game isn't for you.  No judgment - we all have things we're good at.  Good luck with other games. :)
    Posted 13 months ago by Chetmo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • BTW - really seems like you have an itch to scratch.  Not really aimed at Glitch. Not at all.  :D
    Posted 13 months ago by Chetmo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Gamification is the use of game design techniques[1] and mechanics to solve problems and engage audiences. Typically gamification applies to non-game applications and processes (also known as "funware")[2], in order to encourage people to adopt them."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamification

    I know, lol Wikipedia, but it's generally a good starting point for uncommon definitions. I'd like to know which definition you're using, since that one doesn't seem to apply here.
    Posted 13 months ago by Shiromisa Kaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wayfarer, interesting idea! I like positive suggestions, and that one is very cool! :)
    Posted 13 months ago by Chetmo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Completely agree with the OP.  I haven't entered the world in weeks because there's nothing to do that I haven't done already.  Socialize?!  I have real flesh and blood friends that I do that with.  Typing words into a device is no proxy for smelling a real person in front of you.

    Strangely though, I keep coming back here, reading the forums and whatnot, for what this game has the potential to be!  It's intriguing and captivating and if I were some social engineering genius, I could tell you how to fix it.

    I have hopes that the re launch will deliver these changes and I'll check in every now and then to see how it goes.

    Best of luck TS!
    Posted 13 months ago by Mister Master Mixer Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Were I to dream I'd have the building of Ultima Online, the community goals and skill trees of Tale in the Desert and the marketplace of EVE.

    But for now I'm enjoying myself playing Glitch since I haven't hit the level 25 blues and new things seem to be popping.
    Posted 13 months ago by Stewbert Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Re: Shiromisa Kaya - I'm talking about gamification elements like achievements, badges, levels, etc. These don't actually seem to be key to the concept of glitch, but are included anyway. The reason that they are included is that they're good at getting people addicted/to return and play without actually providing value/interest.

    Clearly Glitch has not been gamified (it's a game).

    Examples in glitch:

    A skill tree which allows you to learn while you're not playing and emails you when you're done learning a skill (brings you back to the game).

    Arbitrary and fairly meaningless XP (yes, it gives you more energy, and some bonuses - but why is energy limited if it's not scarce?)

    Gobs of meaningless achievements which no one cares about. "Oh good, I got the I-did-activing-X-times award!"

    ---

    This actually brings up another point, which kinda sucks about Glitch - the fact that, as I mentioned above, that there are limits without scarcity in the game. If it's going to be ridiculously easy to get as much money/XP/energy/mood as you want, then why have it at all? Isn't that merely annoying? 

    Within like 20 minutes of playing the game I figured out that I could just run around Baqala and get infinite $$$ quickly. Why have currants at all?
    Posted 13 months ago by Fergles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A skill tree which allows you to learn while you're not playing and emails you when you're done learning a skill
    As far as I know, the emails come from a third-party site that only uses Glitch's API, called Glitch Academy. Otherwise, I would've been using it MUCH earlier. ;)

    why is energy limited if it's not scarce?
    ...no, really? Have you never played a game where you have limited HP/life/hearts/whatever, and when you run out, you have to replenish it somehow or die? Generally, you run through it in combat, but since Glitch is a largely non-combat-based game, it takes a tack which reminds me (now bear in mind I am decidedly a casual gamer with limited experience to draw from) of the Harvest Moon series.

    As for the rest of it...well, what reason is there to limit anything in a game? I'm...really confused what you're asking for here. Yes, it's easy to replenish, but are you really asking for a game without any kind of limits? That's impractical and kind of silly.
    Posted 13 months ago by Shiromisa Kaya Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with OP that Glitch must grow imaginatively or die (to me, anyway). I have sincere hopes about the Mo' Beta stage, and am prepared to wait and see.

    I think an attempt to squash the freedom of alts is a mistake, as this can and should be a source of great creative contribution: more personalities, more fun. As long as they don't interact online at the same time, let a thousand alts bloom! They have to be earned the natural way, through time spent in-game, so why not?

    I am heartened by the creative efforts of so many players even with the limited palette already in place. I look forward to even richer and more varied contributions in the future, if TS will enable it to be so.
    Posted 13 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the oddest statement I saw in the OP is "...what is missing from the game is the ability to make it matter to people who: 1.) Don't already have lots of friends who play the game".
    Huh? I started not knowing anybody who played (got in during beta off a sign-up), and I've met loads of really great people. People I would now consider my friends. Who I didn't know before. Of course there's a community (what a silly question that is). Look around you, for pete's sake. Say what you want about mechanics and how much you dislike 'em, but, as far as the social aspect goes, you only get out what you put in, as with almost everything.
    Posted 13 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The reasons I joined the game were similar to yours, I think.  They advertised a game where I could use my imagination, and help build the world.  They pointed towards a persistent world where my actions would have consequences that affected the world long term.  The trailer also hinted at a world with a mythology and a story that sounded intriguing.

    The reason that I stay in the game is that they keep promising that they will fulfill these intentions, but so far, the actuality has been quite disappointing.  Many of the story elements that were in beta seemed to have actually been removed at the first launch, such as the series of previous ages of Ur, and the jostling for power and influence among the Giants.  Some of the Rook story was left, but not much seemed to be happening with it.  I will often stick with a game with not much in the way of mechanics if part of it is slowly discovering an interesting set of stories.

    The imagination part is the most lacking, particularly given the hype.  I've been hoping all along for this sandbox to actually get some sand in it.  I can look at a square of planks and imagine sand, and sandcastles, but I'd rather go somewhere else that actually has real toys to play with.  I can drop 11 planks on the floor of my cottage and call it a sofa, but I'm still waiting for a carpentry skill in the game that lets me actually build something.  The examples of imagination I've seen being exercised by some players, while valid, seem more like they are trying to convince themselves than anything else.  For example, find the 10 numbered notes I've left in the world and I'll mail you a prize.  Or create group for a church of the giants with a hierarchy, so we can make up the stories that the Dev's haven't yet.  Better than nothing, but not by much.

    The world building, in spite of, or perhaps because of, the new street projects is also disappointing.  We are not creating the world, we are activating previously locked parts of it at best.  If we got to collaboratively choose whether the next area would have Vendors, Shrines, mines, swamps, herbs, trees, etc. that would at least be making choices that matter, even if limited by the current offerings available in the game.  So far the only choices we can make are visible through the constant tree wars in Ix, and the griping over which animals are under- and over- populated in certain areas.  

    To be frank, the amount of bile poured out in the forums over these minor attempts to mold the world makes me wonder whether allowing the users to actually have a say in these matters by giving them more building powers will simply dissolve into social chaos.  I've been in a couple of different games that gave users a lot of flexible items that they could use to build a variety of projects.  The forums of those games were completely taken over by complaints about how others were hogging required building resources or deliberately sabotaging other peoples' projects, and discussions of how to lawyer the rules so that the advantage went to the other side.  And if you came as a newbie into the game late, it was irrelevant because there was no room for you to even start.

    So, I'm sticking around, more in the forums than the game, waiting to see whether any of the initial potential of the game will actually be realized.  New skills, items and events can revive my interest for a while as I discover how the new features work, but then I tend to slowly drift off again.  I hope the new Beta period will bring some of these elements to fruition without the pitfalls I've seen elsewhere.  Given how slowly this hourglass is pouring, I'm worried it will be a long time before there is any real sand here.
    Posted 13 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "now everyone I meet sucks"

    If you have a problem with everyone you meet, you are the problem. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Oakland Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't want to be one of the people who are level 60, and do nothing but Rook attacks!
    Posted 13 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I hate the way people disparage online contacts and friendships. Not everyone wants to (or can) meet, or even has, "real flesh and blood friends".  A lot of people are more comfortable talking to people through a proxy! And guess what, that's totally okay! Their friendships aren't lesser just because they're not the social norm. Jeez.
    Posted 13 months ago by Pyrrhocorax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Were I to dream I'd have the building of Ultima Online, the community goals and skill trees of Tale in the Desert and the marketplace of EVE
    ---
    I'm drooling seeing this. I would have no life for months to come. :)

    I played A Tale in the Desert for a few years and that's one of the reason I'm actually playing this game. It seems to borrow similar mechanics. Unfortunately, the game seems to be missing much of the customization that would make the game great. As the OP said, it its actual state, the game is pretty much only a grinding machine. I wished there was more group projects. I was a bit disappointed at the street projects, the requirements are excessively low (I'm comparing this to the research of University Techs from ATITD).

    Basically, there is no meta game that make use of the items we grind. (To compare to ATITD again, you have the Uni techs, your school skills, the Tests in different paths, your compound, which all give a meaning to what you do) Street project is a start though and I'm sure they can expand on that. But what does Glitch want to become as a game, what is its direction?
    Posted 13 months ago by BTS0x0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • More customization, yes. I'd love to see that. And it actually sounds like it might be useful for Tiny Speck to check out the examples of the games being discussed here. I also saw a commentor on this article bring up Animal Crossing as another possible example (though I haven't played the game so can't comment specifically). I'll say that I wouldn't mind seeing more story/setting integrated into the game. That kind of thing can deepen gameplay experience.

    It sounds like Tiny Speck is already working on the customization front, too. Customized group building, customized personal homes, and customized levelups (or rather customized character development as it sounds like they might be doing away with levels) are all already confirmed as in the works. Other things, we can suggest to them.

    Incidentally, count me as in someone else who disagrees with enforced specialization. People should be free to try out all the skills they want. Keyword: try. A lot of people tend to end up specializing in actual practice and acquiring what they don't make from others. For example, I have Mining 4, but I actually buy shiny off the market for my refining needs because I don't feel like hunting for it. But I don't regret getting the skill since I occasionally head into areas with rocks (shiny or not) and it's nice to have the option to mine if it's right there and I want to.
    Posted 13 months ago by Kaja Rainbow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One fascinating take away from this thread is the number of people who say, "I don't really play the game much, but find myself reading the forums."  

    Looks like people are very interested in what happens to this game, and want it to succeed. Fergles should get a badge (jk) for commitment to the game. A true fanboy who wants to see success rather than just pile on praise. TS has done a great job getting smart players who provide great insight--as well as being lucky to have them.
    Posted 13 months ago by Mac Rapalicious Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think some legitimate critiques of the game were bought up in this (admittedly very funny) let's play video. The guys don't know what the appeal is because they don't know what the reason for playing is - "all kinds of weird shit happens in this game and it doesn't feel I know why yet". 

    The target demographic is also unclear, but that's less of a concern really - it's mainly the no backstory aspect and clear cut drive to play that drives them to think "so is this the whole fucking game?" and "I just wanna pee in that thing" [about the shrine], and not know what (else) to do at the start. Light hearted criticisms that *do* make you wonder about the reason we donate to giants and what differs between them apart from belonging to some skills.

    And the environment... as they put it: "they're saying I can change the world, but I haven't changed shit". 
    Posted 13 months ago by Hburger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "The reason that I stay in the game is that they keep promising that they will fulfill these intentions, but so far, the actuality has been quite disappointing.  Many of the story elements that were in beta seemed to have actually been removed at the first launch, such as the series of previous ages of Ur, and the jostling for power and influence among the Giants.  Some of the Rook story was left, but not much seemed to be happening with it."

    This is my biggest problem with the game thus far. I thought it would be far more story-rich, but it seems like they've taken much of the story out. Also, everything everyone's said about being able to change the world in bigger, more interesting ways and wanting politics, better/more quests, etc. And I'm obviously biased, but I'd like to see religion come into play more (which would go with the story aspect, I suppose).
    Posted 13 months ago by Rev. Desdemona Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fergles: It's a 2d, browser-based game that just came out of beta. What did you expect? I agree some things could be improved upon, but even then, just clicking will always be a big part of it. Comparing it to and expecting the same from a 2d game as a 3d game is not fair.

    I think a lot of people who enjoy this game enjoy it because of the freedom and lack of competition. You don't have to do any quests. You don't have to trade from the auctions to make money. You don't have to spend a lot of time ingame to be pretty much equal to everyone else. I understand how this may not appeal to some people. But that doesn't make it wrong.

    Also, If you're having problems making friends, consider the problem might just be YOU. Coming into the forums and basically insulting everyone who enjoys this game sure isn't a way to start making any.

    Just because you don't enjoy the game doesn't make it a bad game, nor does it mean there is anything wrong with the people who do enjoy it. Everyone likes different things for different reasons. If the game and the people who play it are so boring to you, then obviously this game isn't for you. Why not go find a game that is?
    Posted 13 months ago by Tilwithe Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Tighie:  2d/3d has nothing to do with gameplay richness. I've played 2d games that had more rich gameplay than some 3d games I've played, and vice versa.

    And as for what I like currently about this game, agreed about the freedom and relatively low competition (this game isn't entirely devoid of competition, as the tree wars, mining disputes, street project top five competition, etc. show). Also, low levels of violence (there's pretty much just fighting the rook). And the cuteness. The looks are a huge factor for me.. I just enjoy roaming through those environments.

    However, I do think this game could use improvement. More customization (already being worked on), more story/lore to engage with (the removal of the lore previously in the game puzzles me, and I can only hope they're working on something new there instead), more meaningful group projects (I'm not familiar with A Tale From the Desert's precise mechanisms, but it sounds cool)...
    Posted 13 months ago by Kaja Rainbow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All games have limits.  This is a new game that only recently launched (and now has unlaunched).  If they threw everything you want into Glitch at the beginning then there would be little to add.  There are plans to add more creativity to the game.  That, I believe, has been discussed from the very beginning before they even started designing it.  I believe (could be wrong) that TS has intended all along to make Glitch more creative on an individual level.  First, though, they need to get the basics established and working.  When these things work as intended, more of the creative aspect on a personal level will begin.  The Creative side of the game is one of the main reasons for the "unlaunch" (I believe).  I think they realize that adding some of these options may require both some downtime and some testing.  If you don't like the game, that's fine, it is not for everyone.  Maybe, you would like to stay though, and see how the new elements fit, to test them, to see if they are something you might enjoy.

    One thing I especially like is that you can play alone or socialize or a mix of both.  I came here with a large Group that I enjoy very much but I do play alone most of the time.  I enjoy Group activities and Group Chat and I like meeting new people. 

    I love the Badges!  I like recognition for things I do.  I also like it that the Achievements are things that I can choose to do and I can do them any way I like and I can take however long I want in doing them.  When I obtain an achievement, I love the silly Badge I get.  Every so often I take a look at the badges and remember the fun I had doing the things it took to get them.  they are not "lame"!  I have no problem with others not liking them or thinking they are silly or useless or whatever but don't think that I am "lame" because I enjoy them and I won't think you are "lame" for thinking they are a waste of time.
    Posted 13 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gamification new word I just learnt. But, yeah, I criticized badges for doing otherwise meaningless things. Not in glitch, mind you. But in all games like on PS3 and XBOX. I think they're dumb. But, oddly, I thought gamification on Kahn Academy was cool. But that site is just cool in and of itself. Imagine if we used a system of gamification in our universities instead of degrees. That might be something.

    Anyways, as an aside, I've always thought about how clicking is something that people do so much these days that clicking in and of itself is a game. So many programs do something flashy when you click, and even sometimes congratulate or otherwise give kudos to you when you click, that the current person can't wait to click on things. Looking at Glitch, isn't that what the whole game capitalizes on? People getting a reaction from clicking something. Congratulations you clicked that and got something. Almost every time  you click something, you get a reward. To learn a skill, you click on it.

    Granted, one might say that this click and reward element is present in all games, but not really to the extent as it is in this game. In other games, you click to move, click to manipulate, click to attack, click to whatever. This game, almost every click you do is for the purpose of receiving a reward. Glitch capitalizes on our click habit and click addiction. When we click and get rewarded for it, we look forward to clicking again. Unconsciously. You're not aware of this. But you love to click. You especially love to click and have that click do something either rewarding or flashy.
    Posted 13 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink