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#### Some thoughts on street herb gardens

Recently I've come across some status updates from friends complaining about how others blocked them for harvesting their street herb gardens. As someone who considers herbs near and dear to my heart (both in game and irl) I thought I'd offer my perspective, for what it's worth. ;)
I'm not in the habit of blocking folks willy-nilly, but I have blocked a few "pests" who cleared out my street herb gardens, leaving dirty plots behind. These were repeat offenders (minors, I'm guessing), and I made sure I was certain who the culprit was before I blocked them. A basic ethic in harvesting someone else's plot is to make sure to replant, that's common sense. Yet, some folks have been diligently replanting other player's plots, and have still been blocked, so apparently there's more going on here. So in order to get to the "root" of things (pun intended) we've got some...ahem...ground to cover, and first we might address the oft-debated topic of street-"ownership."
Many of us consider our streets to be "OUR" streets, even though technically speaking they are open to the public. The game dynamics support this sense of ownership: a street "owner" pays img to expand "their" street. They pay img to set a theme for their street, and to cultivate it with resources of their choosing. They are largely responsible for the upkeep of these resources, even though others may contribute from time to time in restoring depleted resources. Trees are locked to poisoning by other players, and certain items that are placed on an "owners" street such as icons or herdkeeping supplies cannot be removed or "stolen" by others. Not to mention that a street bears the name of its "owner."
Thus, even though these home streets are open to the public, they differ from public streets in the respects listed above. As such, there is a sense of personal proprietorship towards ones street, and many of us feel that our street is largely our personal property, though other players have the freedom to visit. In addition, a street "owner" has the option of blocking unwanted visitors, which further validates the sense of street ownership.
When a random visitor stops by "my" street, I'm quite happy to have them make use of the resources I've provided. At the same time, I feel no particular guilt in blocking folks who I feel are "abusing" my resources, such as by leaving dirty plots in my gardens. (Some of my friends have had their beloved animal pets stolen from their streets, and I would consider this another form of abuse.)
Why would I place an herb garden on my street if I didn't wish folks to partake of it freely? Good question. For me personally, it's a matter of aesthetics. My backyard is tailored to my sense of beauty, as is my street...the resources are placed in such a way that is in keeping with my sense of balance and harmony, regardless of their "use value." So yes, I have an herb garden on my street (which I might well keep hidden in my backyard) because it doesn't "fit in" with the scheme I've got going for the backyard. That's one reason. Secondly, I do wish to share resources with others, but at the same time, I appreciate a certain measure of respect.
I can empathize with street owners who consider their herb gardens to be their property, and who block accordingly. Even if someone replants your garden, they may not replant with the herbs you had initially planted. Even if they replant with the same herbs, it can throw off your rhythm if you come back in game in time to harvest your yellow crumb, only to find a bed of seeds. Some players leave notes requesting how other players treat their gardens, only to have the notes disregarded.
Resource routes have been created to direct people to folks who are happy to share their resources freely and abundantly. I'm a huge fan of these routes, and I applaud the participants wholeheartedly. At the same time, I'm not on a route for a reason. As much as I love the bonus img I receive from occasional visitors, along with the thrill that someone I haven't met before has made their way to my street, I also prefer some degree of privacy, and so I strive to maintain a balance that suits me. Again, for me personally, you are welcome to visit, so long as you are respectful of "my" space. Even if you throw off my gardening rhythm by your use of my gardens, I am largely forgiving, and indeed quite welcoming...up to a point.
But there's yet another element to street visiting to consider, one that goes beyond merely resource harvesting, and extends into the realm of gift-giving and random kindness.
My street is open to my friends, and to the occasional random passerby. If some random visitor wants to make use of my resources and in so doing passes on some bonus img to me, that's great! However, there is a generous sort of behavior that friends engage in between friends, that tends to differ from the random street visit. For example, if a friend visits my street, s/he may choose to harvest my herbs, but oftentimes that friend will do so for the sole purpose of giving me img, and will leave the harvested herbs with my butler as a gift for me. I do the same for them. The general idea when visiting a friend's street is to let the friend know you are thinking of them, and to leave them a gift. This gift takes the the form of img from resource harvesting, to be sure, but often a friendly token is left with the butler, along with a brief message. And of course if friends break eachother's resources, we are quick to do what we can to restore them. Again, we consider our visits to each other's streets as "gifts" we can give one another, and take joy in that.
Oftentimes, random visitors seem to be coming from a "taking" mentality, vs a giving one. So if you visit a random Glitch's street who is not on a resource route, nor on your friend's list, and harvest their garden strictly for the purpose of obtaining herbs, they may take offense and block you. If it's herbs you're after, and you don't wish to be blocked, my advice is to stick to the resource routes or community gardens. You may think you're doing someone a favor by giving them the img, but you may also be throwing off their gardening rhythm even if you replant. Obviously some folks don't appreciate that, and I can't say as I blame them.
Glitch is a wonderful community of kind-hearted, generous folks. We all have goals we are striving towards, but even so we are usually quick to lend a hand to someone who needs it. So maybe we can extend that generosity further, to those whose streets we visit. We can honor the personal nature of home streets, even if someone is on a resource route, and extend our appreciation in the form of gifts and caring for resources. We can broaden our view from "resources" located in databases to "players" and act accordingly, treating every person's street we visit as though they were our friend.
I'm reminded of a well-known parable where an angel (or faery, depending on your interpretation) was showing some dude around the afterlife. (Humor me if you've heard this one before, cuz not everyone has, and it's a good'un.:P) Anyways, he took him to a room where there was plenty of food available, but everyone was starving...their spoons were longer than their arms, and they couldn't feed themselves. "That's hell," said the angel/faery. He took him to another identical room, but here everyone was happy and well-fed. "They've learned to feed each other," said the angel/faery. "This is heaven."

Posted 4 months ago by KitchWitch | Permalink

### Replies

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- So the street has my name on it...so? We were all told, before they were even implemented, that they were public. Just because it says Evelynddra's home street, doesn't change that whatsoever.
  Icons/machines are not resources to begin with. Their interaction the the street would be different than actual resources.. If they were not locked down they could be removed from the street. Actual resources can't (herbs from the garden are not the resource, the garden itself is, btw).
  I'll say this again, once you put that garden in the front you agree to it being public. If your herbs are near and dear to you, TS also gave you the option of them being private. Your backyard. So you can play however you want. I don't suggest to anyone to set out to ruin someones play style. Since your backyard is private I don't see how people "stealing" your herbs (or whatever resources) is an issue effecting anyone's game play. There is a clear solution...put them in your backyard.
  Edit: As a side note, if they are truly that important to you, you have one minute to pick them before they are free for anyone. Set a timer, and get them if your backyard (for whatever reason) is not a suitable solution (even though it absolutely is).
  Posted 4 months ago by Evelynddra | Permalink
- @Patricia: @ KitchWitch - OMG! Look what you've done in 27 hours :))) Everyone - go out to your street, have a bubble tea, a smoothie, a beer. If you have a visitor, give them one and SMILE.
  Are we having fun yet?
  LOL I KNOW, right? I leave for a day, come back expecting to see this thread has died, and was shocked to find it top of the forum list. My first thought was, "Oh no, this can't be good...gulp!" My my, quite a lively conversation you all have been having in my absence...quick someone, pull out your watering can and give this thread a good soaking! Seriously though, I'm glad it's inspired so much discussion, even if it does seem to have become the next "war of the roses" or yellow, or purple, or whatnot.
  Not much else to add on my part, really, except a couple of things to clarify. @Botia and Lyrical DejaVu: I already explained why I have an herb garden (2, actually) on my street. They're partly for aesthetic reasons, but also for sharing with visitors. I have a sign that reads, "Welcome, please pick the flowers," because my gardens ARE for visitors, though I use them too. As I stated, I've only blocked a couple of people for repeatedly coming by on a frequent basis, harvesting, and leaving dirty plots. Perhaps I could have spoken with them about it, but for whatever reason I chose not to. My block-list is relatively short, so it's not something I do often. Maybe I should post a sign that says, "Please clean the plots and replant," but I haven't felt the need to do so because it's not generally an issue, and I believe that for the most part it's common sense. I was speaking to a new player (level 7) tonight, and they told me that it seemed only logical to them to clear a plot and replant after, so it does seem that it's a common practice, and my experience with having herb gardens on my street largely bears this out.
  As for leaving harvested herbs with my butler, certainly I don't expect folks to do that. I merely mentioned that as an example of a nice thing that friends do between friends, and gee, wouldn't it be nice to do that for others, as well? No, I don't expect folks to leave their harvests for me, but it's a nice treat when it happens! I also love it when folks use my resources for themselves, cuz it really IS a nice thing to feel like you have something of value to share with the community. The leaving dirty plots behind is a pet peeve, and so I've used my Giant-given block option to solve that problem to my satisfaction by blocking a couple of repeat offenders, though maybe I'll reconsider that and talk to folks first next time, cuz yah, that sounds like the nice thing to do.
  My hope in starting this thread was to get a meaningful discussion going...score! That succeeded, perhaps a bit too well, but I'm glad to see so many folks contributing, even if it has gotten a bit heated at times. I also wanted to get folks thinking about other ways to spread even more random kindness around our lovely Ur. I'd like to see an herb revolution: I'd like to see a wave of Glitchen flooding over herb gardens, harvesting, replanting, fertilizing (so the herbs grow faster) and leaving the harvests with butlers as a gift to the homestreet owner, JUST BECAUSE WE CAN. We can do that when we're not harvesting herbs for our own purposes, of course...it can be just one of the many nice things we can do for folks.
  It was a treat to come back tonight and find messages and packages with my butler, and my front gardens so prettily replanted in beautiful rows and patterns (Verea, was that you?) as well as some new friend requests. I don't visit home streets as often as I should, largely because of lag issues, but I intended to go on a visiting spree tonight, leaving herbs with as many folks as I could, as a way to kick-start the revolution. But I felt I ought to first check in with this forum thread to see why it was so darn popular...and now I know. It's because even with divergent viewpoints, you all are so totally cool (and vocal!) and I've enjoyed reading every single post because of the personality and spirit behind it. The revolution can wait another for another night...thanks for the spirited discussion!
  @Rennie ROFL at your running commentary...PLEASE keep it up as long as this thread lasts, and make sure to send me a copy of the DVR. :D
  Posted 4 months ago by KitchWitch | Permalink
- PS - We had another bear sighting again this morning; Mama bear seemed MUCH less stressed out, and the cubs appeared healthy and full of vim and vigor. I know it's because of all that delicious Glitchen juju they received, so keep it up, please! xoxo
  Posted 4 months ago by KitchWitch | Permalink
- OK, suppose it became possible to lock gardens on your streets so that only you could harvest them. Then imagine this scenario (not at all far-fetched considering current game economics and dynamics):
  1) Currently (for real) my street has 14 bean trees and is part of two different resource routes to make them available for everyone's use.
  2) So, discovering that I can lock herbs for my personal harvesting, I remove every last bean tree and put in as many large herb gardens as the street will hold. I'm not sure how many that is, but I think somewhere around 12 is about right.
  3) I now plant all 12 gardens with yellow crumb flower and harvest them twice a (RW) day.
  4) I therefore harvest about 1500 flowers a (RW) day (figuring in a factor for super harvests).
  5) Selling these at 120 currants per flower (they fly out of the tower at this price) I make 180,000 currants a (RW) day from my public street - which now has no resources whatsoever for the public.
  Oh, I know that you who are asking for this locking would never do this; you only want to be able to harvest your one street garden yourself. But you can bet your bottom currant that dozens (hundreds?) of capitalist glitchen would! No thanks, I say.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hawkwell | Permalink
- Icons/machines are not resources to begin with. Their interaction the the street would be different than actual resources.. If they were not locked down they could be removed from the street.
  Evelynddra - machines, stills, milkers and feeders were not always locked to the street. People who left them outside had them stolen and were told 'keep them in your house / yard', it changed in part due to discussions like these. Gardens didn't always have a delay when someone else planted, it too changed due to discussions of this nature. TS didn't voice complaint about the arduous task of programming the changes, if they don't want to do something or think the programming won't be worth the return I bet they simply don't do it. Glitch evolves.
  Gardens differ from the Basic Resources in a handful of ways. Check out how things are listed in the Encyclopedia or Auctions. They are not listed as Natural Resources, at Auction herbs are sold as Herbalism Supplies and crops are sold as Croppery & Gardening Supplies. Everything else (except for filled firefly jars) falls under Basic Resources. The most painful difference (and the one I think causing the majority of arguments) is the length of time to 'regenerate' or in the case of gardens grow. The longest are Yellow Crumb at 9 real world hours, 11 for Potato. If the trees, rocks and dig-ables took as long to respawn I imagine you'd hear from upset homeowners. The last difference is the overall value of the crops themselves (see other threads for those discussions).
  The thread is enlightening, I see people advocating the game mechanics surrounding Home Streets as public resources (or the API providing information) while others are against players using the Block game mechanic. Is one type of mechanic valid to use and the other isn't? As the world expands I can see more players leveraging Block in all sorts of ways. Again, it's not something to get terribly worked up over and telling those who use Block how 'wrong' they are probably isn't going to change their mind. As many people have pointed out, there is no 'wrong' if the mechanics allow it. Are there better options? Perhaps. I think this thread has make valid points for a few.
  ETA: @Hawkwell - it's one of the challenges I mentioned when putting the lock idea out there. Locking resources have the potential to make things private or semi-private (which I'm not convinced is entirely bad if the world expands tenfold). After some thought, it wouldn't be hard to add bits making them lockable once daily or for a certain duration or cap it at a % of overall.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- Wandering Confusion - As you indicate TS has made several changes to the dynamics of public areas in response to widespread input from us players. Based on what I have read here and on conversations with glitchen friends I believe most players are happy with the compromises which have evolved to eliminate what the majority saw as abuse in the public areas. I further believe that the majority do not see the harvesting of street gardens (even with no hoeing/replanting) as abuse and would not support further restrictions on public availability of these resources. Bottom line: I think the chance of TS adding further restrictions is near zero. So you can certainly make your preferences known, but I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing them implemented.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hawkwell | Permalink
- Hawkwell - I don't see them making changes either, not to the gardens or to the blocking capabilities. I think they've given a functional level of control and people are still making adjustments.
  Posted 4 months ago by Wandering Confusion | Permalink
- I think that we all bring paradigms and concepts from our experience of the real world into our activities and interactions in Glitch. Most of us are used to thinking of economic transactions as a zero-sum game: for every way in which I win, someone else loses. We are also often brought up to think of the world in terms of scarcity and survival (will there be enough for me??? I must hoard, scavenge, scramble to succeed, etc.) or of entitlement (this is mine, mine, mine and no one else better try and mess with it!).
  Unlike many other games, Glitch is set in a world of abundance. There is more than enough to go around. We are not actually competing for scarce or limited resources. With a modest amount of time and effort, any player can have more than enough of whatever they want. It's very difficult for many of us to grasp that underlying truth about the mechanics of Ur. We're just not wired or culturally trained to grasp it easily.
  What Glitch does NOT guarantee is perfect control over those abundant resources. Control and influence do play an essential role in the way resources are deployed in this game. You have a sphere of total control (your home and back yard), a sphere of direct influence (your street), a sphere of indirect influence (your social networks of friends and groups), a sphere of negative influence/exclusion (people who you block and choose not to interact with at all), and a sphere of no control (the Giant-imagined regions of Ur, free for all and so beautiful). Learning to accept the existence and parameters of these different spheres—and to optimize your own gameplay within them—is the key to enjoying this game.
  You cannot control All The Things. You cannot get everyone to Play Your Way. But you can adjust your own dials, your own attitude toward the four spheres of activity in Glitch. (I'd like to add: this is a valuable skill of self-management and perspective that transfers well to the everyday world too.)
  Posted 4 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- + umpteen millions to Pascale.
  Posted 4 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- Why is this even an issue? I fail to see how the public nature of home-streets, as laid out *multiple* times by TS, is taking so many by surprise, If you don't want people to pick your stuff, don't plant it there. Simple. Better yet, get some WotD and rip everything out. Problem solved.
  As far as blocking, who cares. Block me, don't block me, whatever. If you're my friend then you should know by now that I'm not out to screw anybody over (which I'd assume to be true of most of the players here), and if that's not apparent to you, then feel free to block me. If we're close, we'd probably have a little conversation about whatever the issue is and set it behind us anyway, but if you're so quick to take offense that you're willing to ban people willy-nilly, particularly over nebulous differences in playing style, I've probably got better things to do than be concerned about it.
  ETA - Are we really this starved for things to do that we've gotta manufacture a new outrage every week? If it wasn't this it'd be trees, or numbers of animals on public streets, or progress bars, or who does and doesn't have a Dusty Stick (SB-1, yeti, Plate of Beans, whatever), or key-camping, or "y u no share rock?", etc-etc-etc, world without end, amen.
  Concerns are concerns. Tantrums are tantrums. Glitch is still, as ever, a game.
  Posted 4 months ago by Djabriil | Permalink
- Well said, Pascale!
  Posted 4 months ago by natsumi | Permalink
- Djabrill, I think I love you
  Posted 4 months ago by chilirlw | Permalink
- I've read through everyone's eloquent and long winded responses. And guess what? I've not been influenced in any way. I'll continue playing as I always have. Much like I suspect everyone who posted here will. So feel free to block, hide in the bushes ready to splank, make your yard a barren wasteland, yell at the clouds, or welcome me with open arms. In any event, I'll get over it.
  And just to add what my playstyle is. If I happen upon your street and want what is there, I will take it. In the case of herbs or crops. I'll replant what I take or at least something in its place. I may read your notes. I may pay attention to your gnomes. But if there be some yellow crumb, then I hope you have some loud jugs, washboards and banjos because it is time for a hoedown.
  Posted 4 months ago by Malus Agricola | Permalink
- I think it has been outlined several times over why lockable resources are not a good idea -- there is a place for resources of that nature, and it is not the home street. Given that it is explicitly explained in the new tutorial, this argument is simply going to lose support and fade away -- new players won't even understand the debate. And will be surprised for getting blocked for doing exactly what the tutorial told them was normal. If anything changes, there might be a need for TS to stage an intervention with some of the players who are the most stubborn and rude with their "my home street is private and I will block your ass" policies, as that has moved beyond simply utilizing the tools TS has given us and into using those tools to directly oppose the game design. If it is hard or impossible to play your way without removing entire chunks of the community from the equation, it's quite possible "your way" is something the devs never intended to let exist. Game design, for MMOs, is also a bit of social engineering.
  Posted 4 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- Perhaps some mechanism to identify and characterize players' blocking behavior could be designed into the game.
  1. If a player has been blocked by a lot of fellow players, it counts against them in some way. They might commonly act in a way considered antisocial by a majority of the community.
  2. If a player has blocked a lot of fellow players who have not been blocked by other players, it counts against them in some way. They might be a player who is overreacting and not using the 'block' function as intended.
  The first rule would identify players who are blocked for what is widely seen as antisocial behavior.
  The second rule would detect players who block others who are clearly not within the social norm of 'people who are blocked' as the blocking function was designed for. This would identify those players who 'punitively block' their fellow players for not playing 'their way.'
  'Counts against them in some way' could mean a lot of things.
  Just some food for thought.
  Posted 4 months ago by Feldspar Gravity | Permalink
- " not using the 'block' function as intended."
  Can you show me where the guideline is for how TS "intended" us to use the block function? As far as I can see, what they intended was to give each of us a method of dealing with players who are bothering you in the game.
  If it bothers you that people harvest from your home street, then you can use the block function. Why on earth would TS staff get into be business of arbitrating playing styles and "social norms"? As long as someone isn't violating the Community Guidelines, staff has no business telling them they're not playing the right way. See, for example, the Community Guideline that starts "There is no “Right Way” to play Glitch.
  I certainly fall more on the "my street is public, make full use of it everyone" side of this debate. But that doesn't mean that those who block hundreds of other players are 'not using the block function as intended'. They are free to block as many other players as they want for whatever reason that makes them feel less bothered. Why on earth should that count against them?
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- What if we regarded the block function simply as another game mechanic rather than as necessarily implying insult or revenge? Imagine this scenario:
  A person recovering from a serious automobile accident plays Glitch as a distraction from pain and as a way to interact with a circle of family members and real-world friends, some of whom are distant. Due to the automobile accident, this person has some brain damage that impairs their social and communication skills, and thus wishes to minimize interaction with players outside their circle of family and real-world friends. When other players do something that this person finds upsetting or confusing, this player silently blocks them after leaving the scene. This player also silently blocks strangers who visit their home street more than once in a short period.
  Can you see that such blocking can be done for simple self-protection rather than as an insult or a form of revenge?
  Posted 4 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- Thank you Wandering. I do follow these updates, and played during that time. Although, from my memory I do not recall machines and stills ever being able to be removed.
  There is a specific reason why I only mentioned icons and machines. They are things that others can use, therefore can be made public. While feeders and milkers are things only the owner benefits from. That change (from unlocked, to locked), imo, is completely different because of that reason. I say that with the understanding that the RHK items could be harvested from (and stolen), but as you can harvest from pigs without the items I don't see it as a resource. Just a tool. There was also a time (bug) when gardens were not able to be harvested by the public. That was also changed (fixed). It seems Glitch has indeed evolved.
  I do understand why people want them private, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand why this is an issue when there is a clear solution. Backyard. If you desire to have your gardens private put them there. It's not like there is a lack of space.
  In regards to blocking, I strongly feel people are free to block whoever they want. It's definitely their choice, and not wrong. Just as not replanting is rude though, so is blocking because they used your public garden. I say use in the sense that they were blocked even though they cleaned and replanted.
  Also +9000 to Pascale and Chilirlw!
  Posted 4 months ago by Evelynddra | Permalink
- Obviously, the game designers included the 'Block' mechanism for some purpose. It shouldn't be difficult for us to figure out what it is for. It's a tool to empower players to protect themselves from anti-social griefing. But players always manage to find varied uses for mechanisms that game designers never intended.
  The 'rules' that I outlined (in what I hope is seen as very general) could be designed in as a self-regulating mechanism. There could, for example, be a visible 'blocking scorecard' for each player, showing how many people have them blocked, how many people they have blocked, etc. Then each player could determine for themselves how to weigh the 'numbers' on their fellow players. More information is always a good thing, as long as it doesn't intrude on players' privacy. Does anbody have the right to keep the number of people they have blocked a secret from their fellow players? Maybe so, maybe not.
  I like self-functioning 'validation' mechanisms, as for example are used in the 'moderation' system on the website 'Slashdot' (no, we don't need to argue the merits of that site as a whole, but it's an example of a fairly successful self-regulating moderation mechanism in operation.) I was just brainstorming about how such a formulae could be devised.
  Just more food for thought. I don't have a dog in this fight.
  Posted 4 months ago by Feldspar Gravity | Permalink
- Unlike Slashdot, there's no reason to "validate" other people's playing style.
  If you don't like it, don't play that way. But no thanks to any "rating system" that lets us publicly evaluate other people's character based on whether we like or dislike their playing style.
  And, the purpose, if you follow the link I posted, is so you have a way to see less of the in-game behavior of a player who bothers you. At least that's what staff said. They've been designing and using exactly this blocking system for well over 10 years. I think by now they're pretty clear how it works and what people use it for.
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- You just explained a reason to 'validate' other people's playing style. "Seeing less of the in-game behavior of another player" is similar to reading Slashdot at level 2.
  Perhaps a 'rating system' would take it too far, and excessively weigh the numbers. So just the bare numbers, out there and visible.
  Posted 4 months ago by Feldspar Gravity | Permalink
- There is a significant difference between one individual making such a decision about their own interactions with another individual. TS gives us tools to do that.
  What they do not do is allow us to influence how other people interact with a 3rd individual. You can block 100 people here without ever affecting how I view their behavior. The same is not true on any site that allows the rest of the community some kind of popularity vote.
  TS did not design a tool that allows me to influence anyone else's playing style. The blocking tool is not a community rating tool. It is a private, one-on-one tool that can be used without any drama at all. Introducing a drama-provoking tool such as a community rating would create a very different community.
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- Posted 4 months ago by Goodnight Groddle | Permalink
- Calling people out in the forums or advertising why you blocked someone is, in my opinion, the bigger source of a lot of hurt feelings here (on the side of those who have been blocked) than the actual block command.
  As b3achy pointed out earlier in this thread (on page 1): blocking many players CAN already hinder gameplay, so I don't see why another mechanism would need to be introduced.
  Posted 4 months ago by Persephone Pear | Permalink
- +1000 Windborn.
  Posted 4 months ago by Violet Faulds | Permalink
- Having home streets with public access allows the game to scale. Before the new housing was introduced, increasing the number of streets available to players required developer time. Now the number of streets available to players automatically increases as new players enter the game.
  Assuming new players add resources to their streets, this system maintains a roughly stable balance between players and resources. Without such a system, growth in the player base puts a strain on either players or developers -- or both.
  If players aren't adding enough resources to their streets to maintain balance, the developers can tweak the system as a whole. However, if players are given the option of restricting access to their streets to friends only, that could once again lead to scaling problems.
  It also seems to me that the game would have a very different feel if players were able to create what are, in effect, gated communities. I understand the desire to have a "whitelist" mechanic for allowing only one's friends to visit a street. However, adding such a mechanic would allow a group of players to disadvantage those who are not part of the group by excluding them from economic activity or denying them access to resources on a large scale. This could destroy the equal opportunity the game now affords to all players for earning currants, gaining imagination, and advancing in level.
  Posted 4 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- I'm highly skeptical of the "mass blocking would create imbalances" argument. Heck, I can more than thrive off the resources in my own backyard, never mind needing to go to other people's streets.
  There are plenty of resources, and access to resources, to go around. Plenty!
  But now I'm starting to repeat myself. Sorry.
  Posted 4 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- Splendora - I seem to recall Stoot mentioning (either chat or forum) the possibility in the future of semi private group player created streets. Gated communities may well be on the horizon :/
  It has been interesting to see the different perspectives people have regarding the use of the block function. I always saw it as the equivalent of a restraining order - something not to be initiated lightly. I don't think I will change my perspective but perhaps I won't see being blocked as such a big deal.
  Posted 4 months ago by dmnddgs | Permalink
- dmnddgs: I think the "gated communities" referred to by Splendora are quite different than what Stoot was talking about and would not involve the home streets. I believe Stoot meant the group streets that could be created by members of a group like Community Kitchen or Sandbox group or something like that. There is virtually no information on group communities, whether they would be private to the group or if the outside would be open to visitors, or even if they will ever happen at all.
  Gated communities of home streets is quite a different idea and one I hope is destined to be relegated to the dustbin.
  Posted 4 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- I think Glitch is a game of abundance for those who've gotten over the initial hump of being a new player and who also can be flexible in when they play and how much they play.
  New players don't have much in their backyards, so they need to find resources elsewhere. Of course, new players can find resources on the streets of Ur, but I remember times before the return to beta when there was a lot of competition for a variety of basic resources. As an experienced player with a variety of skills, I could work around shortages, but I think that's not always so easy for newer players. I focus on new players because I believe that providing a good new-player experience and retaining new players is important for the long-term success of Glitch.
  I don't see Glitch as a zero-sum game, and I hope it will not move in that direction. The game as it is now may help people think about whether they need to live their life in the real world as a zero-sum game. Perhaps there are better alternatives.
  Posted 4 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- Hello. I am a very new player: I have been playing for less than a week.
  I thought I would chime in here by telling you how my understanding of and perspective on the streets has changed in my short time.
  When I first started playing Glitch, I found myself with my very own street and my very own house. This was very cool.
  It didn't take long for me to earn enough imagination to put in a small crop garden. This was also very cool, because I was sure I wanted one, even though I wasn't quite sure how much good it would do me.
  Nobody told me that my crop garden would be available to strangers to harvest.
  No, the initial tutorial was NOT clear on this, not in the slightest. Yes, I did come away with the impression that other people could visit my street and harvest my resources, but in no way did that imply that they could take my whole crop and walk off with it. If I had known this in advance, I might not have put my small crop garden in my yard in the first place.
  Nevertheless, at first, it wasn't even an issue. Nobody came to my street, anyway. I grew a couple of crops and was very happy. A few people found my street, higher-level players who had been around a while, and they didn't touch my garden.
  Of course, by now, I had been to a few gardens with signs saying "please take my crops/herbs", so I now knew it was possible. However, because the few visitors I'd had so far had left my garden alone, I assumed (I know, always bad to assume) that polite Glitchian behavior must be to only touch crops/herbs if there was a sign inviting you to do so, and I behaved accordingly. Nobody told me this, mind you: it was simply what I "figured out" based on my limited observations and my own personal biases and worldviews.
  Then, I got a quest to harvest 50 onions. I planted 4 plots of onions, and got 48. Frustrating, but that's how things happen sometimes. I go buy more seeds, bring them back, and plant 4 more plots. (Yes, I know, I obviously could have just planted one, but I planted four.) I'm tired, and I go to sleep. The next morning, I quickly log on, expecting to finish my quest and harvest some onions. But, to my shock and surprise, someone had harvested them.
  Was I upset? You bet I was. I had to go buy more seeds and replant. Seeds may seem cheap to higher levels, but they aren't cheap to lower levels like I was. You may well tell me that I could have made more seeds for free, but I did not know this; it is something that the game leaves you to figure out, either by trying things to see what happens or by talking to other Glitches.
  Sure, by this point in the game, I was aware that such a thing could have happened. But nevertheless, I initially placed my crop garden outside because I was unaware of this fact. And, no, I can't just pick it up and take it inside - or if I can, I am not aware of that. So, I am stuck with my crop garden outside.
  I would certainly be less upset if such a thing happened now. I am still not high level by any means, but I do have more resources at my fingertips. Also, I probably won't get another quest to plant 50 onions again, anyway.
  Meanwhile, about that inside garden: let's go back to my day 1 again. When I entered my house for the first time, I did notice that there was a hole in the side of the house and a flat patch of green. However, it didn't actually register that this was another garden for me to use. Yes, sure, that probably says something about my intelligence, but that is neither here nor there. The point is, I did not realize that I could have put a garden inside if I had wanted to until after I had already placed my crop garden.
  For that matter, even if I had realized it, I probably would not have chosen to do so, because, as I already said, I did not realize that people could take crops outside. It seems natural to me to decorate the exterior that people can see first, and I thought a garden would be pretty as well as functional. Since I did not understand the potential consequences of my choice, I would probably have placed my crop garden outside anyway.
  In any case, no, I do not need advice. I am now well aware that I can build more crop gardens inside. I am simply telling you what one new player thought during her first week. I do not pretend to speak for anyone else; other new players may or may not agree with my point of view, but I would not know because I have not asked them.
  I am speaking up partly because the original poster seemed to want responses such as this one in the first place, and partly because several older players seem to think they can speak on behalf on new players but actually have no idea what it's like to be new this week.
  Posted 4 months ago by whatie | Permalink
- I'd like to point out that my understanding of the new player experience was not an attempt to dictate to you but drawn from the new player who posted in this thread before you. Perhaps they need to make it more clear, but that player did not seem to have your confusion and seemed only confused as to why this is a conversation.
  Posted 4 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- I apologize if I seemed to be speaking on behalf of new players. Indeed, I do not know what it is like to be a new this week. Yet I do want the game experience to be a good one for new players.
  Perhaps the tutorial needs some further tuning. At any rate, it's good to have new players describing their initial experience of the game.
  (Edited to remove half-baked idea.)
  Posted 4 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- Could be good to add a quest where players are guided to put a s. garden on their street and one in their backyard accompanied by an explanation of the difference between the two locations.
  [ETA: I clearly did not think Splendora's idea was half-baked -- or at least, it's worth baking to completion, heh]
  Posted 4 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- I like the idea of having a quest as a prerequisite to being able to add a garden (or perhaps any resource) to the front yard. If players understand up-front the range of actions other players can engage in, that's likely to make for happier campers.
  (More baking is good.)
  Posted 4 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- I liked your idea, too, Splendora.
  Posted 4 months ago by Little Miss Giggles | Permalink
- Hmmm, my last paragraph seems rude on re-read. I did not mean it that way. Sorry about that!
  No apologies are needed. I was trying to add to the discussion. I was NOT trying to take anyone to task. It obviously came across that way, and that's totally my bad.
  Overall, I've had a good experience. Most people are very nice to me, which is what counts most. I've run into a few bugs already, but the support team took care of all three of my bug tickets with amazing lightning-fast speed.
  I do wish more answers were available for me to easily look them up.
  Yes, it would definitely have been good to know about the crop gardens in advance. I would definitely support doing something to make that more clear.
  I don't think I would have liked a quest telling me specifically what to put in my gardens, but a quick quest/tutorial that goes over the difference between the front and back gardens would have been just fabulous. That same quest/tutorial should also explain how crops and herbs are different from trees, rocks, and other goodies you can put out.
  Posted 4 months ago by whatie | Permalink
- Life Styles of the Glitch and Famous: Gated Communities? A Butler or a Bouncer? This problem must all be TS's fault for forcing noobs to grow onions for our expensive awesome stews! (Whatie had no clue that was the real point of the quest! Now sell those onions quick and cheap!) While you're doing that, I think I'll get some Funyuns. And some Hagen Dazs. And grape jelly, yeah. Captain Crunch with the little crunch berries!
  Posted 4 months ago by Rennie | Permalink
- @whatie It can be very hard to get started in this game if you don't have a mentor. I know I had a terrible time at the beginning and I made every conceivable mistake. I did things wrong and wasted a lot of time and resources. And gradually I realized that it was OK to make mistakes and be wasteful and come to things the long way around.
  I think that Glitch is about imagination, openness, sharing and curiosity. It seems to me that the way are forced to learn through a combination of making our own mistakes and relying on the kindness of strangers is a perfect introduction to the special world of Glitch.
  I am kind of suspicious of having too many detailed tutorials for every part of the game... I like the way we all stumble around and ask each other for help. I think it encourages us to connect.
  I hope that you are not feeling too frustrated and that you are having fun and meeting loads of good people.
  Posted 4 months ago by Miss Bobbit | Permalink
- I will say that it must be harder for a newbie now. When I started (with no home) I wandered around aimlessly. Which I am fine with; others might not like. But, being forced into Ur to find goods and see how things worked allowed me to interact and learn from other players. With the new housing, and so many on hiatus(?), there are fewer people in the world to learn from. And the major drop in number of players has lead me to socialize only with my close friends--I've ignored noobs (sorry!). There aren't street parties any more. Or parties of any kind for that matter.
  I learned the game by having 5 glitches on each street to socialize with. The new housing and extended Beta has taken this away for new players, in my opinion. I don't know that a tutorial for everything would be good or would solve this. Maybe a New Glitch Welcoming Committee group is in order---of course can we come up with a standard set of social etiquette to implore?
  As for streets being public or private---I think a huge problem lies in the fact that our names are tied to them (this seems to be the root of the argument). And the fact that we can kick people off of "our" streets. Possession has been ingrained in us all of our lives. "Put your name on it," "Take ownership". These two things, despite what TS claims are the guidelines, put a personal claim and connection to the streets. Some have no problem overcoming this and adopting the new TS idea; others, like myself, struggle a little more with having our names tied to stuff.
  I am not saying that I don't want visitors or don't welcome people over---I haven't yet posted a "no trespassing sign". My thought is that it is inherent to take ownership of something that your name is tied to. And it seems that there is a pride issue as well. I've read a lot of, "I want it to look nice." I am the same way because I have my name tied to it. When people leave my street (there I go again calling it mine), I want them to say, "Man, that rennie is one designing mofo! Look at those flowers!"
  At least, that is how I imagine it ;)
  Posted 4 months ago by Rennie | Permalink
- I have been invited to 2 parties in the last month.
  Posted 4 months ago by shhexy corin | Permalink
- Thank you Pascale for your beautiful post about abundance, and thanks Whatie for your valuable new player perspective! I for one am thrilled to see some new faces, and I hope the bickering in this thread hasn't scared anyone off. I can well remember being new and being turned off by what seemed like pointless fighting in the forums, but it was never enough to turn me off to the game itself, I just tried to avoid the forums. :P
  Still, my curiosity kept drawing me back to these public discussions, and in time I've learned to embrace our occasional snarkiness as merely proof that we all care deeply about this game and feel strongly about certain aspects, and want to see it become the best it can be...many of us take our role as "imaginators" very seriously! :D (And I have to applaud our wonderful devs for the amazing restraint they show in not being too quick to lock threads that get heated such as this one, and instead giving us the freedom to work things out on our own...kudos, devs, we love you.)
  For Whatie and other new players, there are some helpful new-player tools available, in case you haven't already become familiar with them. First there's the FAQ that can answer many questions on a variety of topics. Also, when you're in game, there's a chat channel called "Live Help" where others are happy to answer any questions you may have, so feel free to make abundant use of that. And as you've probably already discovered, many of the folks you meet in game are only too willing to help other players, so feel free to IM us or stop by our streets for a chat.
  Now I'm off to kick-start this herb revolution I spoke of, so see you in game...happy gardening! *Goes to rennie's street, and marvels: "Man, that rennie is one designing mofo! Look at those flowers!"
  Posted 4 months ago by KitchWitch | Permalink
- whatie -- thank you for giving the perspective a new player. I've certainly been guilty of assuming they understand the words in the tutorial the same way I do.
  Perhaps at first, players would have no front yard at all. Then at the appropriate time (level? # of skill learned? Once they get the big spender badge?), the rock will take them to a quest area, explain what visitors can and can't do to resources in the front yard, and as a quest reward give you the ability to expand & cultivate the yard.
  For extra bonus points, refund everyone's front yard so everyone has a chance to do the quest.
  Posted 4 months ago by Yendor | Permalink
- I find the following things have helped keep people off of my public street:
  1) Play infrequently and at strange times.
  2) Don't have friends.
  3) Post very little to the boards or on the trade channel or in global so I don't accidentally makes some friends.
  4) Don't go to the home streets of others. When on a public street that is not someone's home street, do not greet or interact with anyone I come across. This also ensures I make very few friends.
  5) Let all of my trees die. This makes people grumpy. It makes me grumpy, too. I make fewer friends when grumpy. Plus, I alienate any friends I may have accidentally acquired.
  6) Leave any gardens weedy when away from the game. This will ensure me the ability to stay in rhythm. That rhythm will be the this-herb-takes-this-long rhythm. Stand by my garden (even if it's in my backyard, where people can't go) while my herbs grow. Yell at anyone who approaches. Continually splank them until they leave. Do not accept any friend requests resulting from splank enthusiasts. Freaks.
  7) Create alts to spread rumors of main character's general bad demeanor.
  8) Be forgettable.
  That's it! Only 8 steps and they work so well! You're welcome.
  Posted 4 months ago by Quirk | Permalink
- "You cannot control All The Things. You cannot get everyone to Play Your Way. But you can adjust your own dials, your own attitude toward the four spheres of activity in Glitch. (I'd like to add: this is a valuable skill of self-management and perspective that transfers well to the everyday world too.)" - Pascale
  Perfect.
  Posted 4 months ago by Ooola | Permalink
- I handle the situation by keeping my gardens in my back yard.
  6 large gardens will just fit in a fully expanded back yard, FYI.
  Front yard is packed full of resources for visitors (and me) to use freely.
  In my case, this means no conflict.
  Posted 4 months ago by Murri | Permalink
- woah. lots and lots of text. I'll admit, I only got through 2 pages of it before my eyes glazed over.
  Anyway, if I do something on your street that you don't like, please block me. I don't have time to worry or be scared of being disliked. I'd rather you just use the tools at your disposal, that's what they are there for. And if you block me, then I'll go somewhere else, no harm no foul. really.
  Also, I expect people to use and abuse my street, so please, do.
  Posted 4 months ago by Sunshine Tentacles | Permalink

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