Sign In

### Topic

#### Penny dropped or not?

I don't know how this would work practically but I have been reading the forums and the main thing to me (and this is only my opinion) is:-
There is no real point.
No point in mining just to sell to vendor and no point in selling in auction cause someone else has the skill so they can go do it for themselves.
Everyone can do ALL skills so we don't really need anything from anybody. Unless, like me you've been in a position to not want to wait feeding batterflies for poop and bought a dozen from auction but even then, when the price goes up I get my glitchy butt down the mines.
I need to think about this more in depth but I have a few ideas that I would like to put forward and have a positive feedback from others. I understand that anything I come up with will be liable to be 'shot down' as a negative idea and that's OK cause I don't think I have all the answers but I would like to throw some of them out there. What if, and I hate this idea myself, the vendors did not buy from us. Then I would be forced to use the Auction which at the moment I don't bother with. What if only one full skill could be learned per glitch and although we know them all we would have to rotate between them (not sure how this would work). Piggies do not feed us meat that we can eat but only cook with so people down the mines would have to buy food. I am still thinking about a lovely glitchen who had learned crafting skill but I had already all the stuff I needed so did not buy anything from her but upon reflection would have had to if a) I did not have the skill myself and b) could not buy from vendor. See there are flaws here but by putting this down perhaps it can be built on and better ideas grow from these imperfect seeds.

Posted 14 months ago by Really Pissed Off | Permalink

### Replies

- I agree with much of what you said, Melodious, but specifically I agree with the skill path suggestions.
  I very much do think there is a big problem with a dilution of skills among Glitchen, in that it is not only easy, but often required that a player have a very large set of skills by the time they get to the terminal skill of the path they want to take part in. By the time I got to the end of the engineering skill path, I had enough investment in other skills to very easily gather all of the resources I needed to produce tools/blocks/fuel cells on my own. To this day, I don't have to interact with the rest of the community at all for my craft other than to sell my finished products.
  I think if the skill tree in Glitch had some major restrictions placed on it, it would encourage a form of community interaction that is much more in line with what Tiny Speck seems to want. In many MMOs out today, this exact type of restriction is immensely successful in creating powerful player-driven economies.
  Posted 14 months ago by Zinfidel | Permalink
- Theres a daily limit on XP received from shrine donations, so howabout a daily limit on currants earned from Auction, or a cap on number of Auction submissions that day. Also a cap on what you can dump at vendors too. It's too easy to sit on yer arse at home earning stacks of cash!
  Posted 14 months ago by Geezereth | Permalink
- No no, don't limit the auction house! The auction house needs to become more useful, necessary, and prominent, not less. The current vendor system needs to be reworked such that people can't use the auction house as a middle-man to vendors by selling at slight loss, and I believe TS has stated that they are working on that as we speak.
  Posted 14 months ago by Zinfidel | Permalink
- Hmmm I'm not sure I agree with you Zinfidel. I think the Auctions kinda ruin the game by taking away the impetus on having to go out and get it for yourself. Wouldn't a shortage of stuff mean we'd have to become more socially co-operative?!....maybe.
  However I agree with your point that the vendors are in danger of becoming defunct as things stand.
  Posted 14 months ago by Geezereth | Permalink
- I'd MUCH prefer a direct sales model to the AH. I've deliberately avoided the cooking track so that I have to deal with others *somehow* - but in fact I don't have to. As it is, I could just build stuff, and mine, and order in takeout from the frog, totally solo.
  I do trade with friends for food as far as I can, but I'd happily sell or barter my crops at a market, and pay my neighbors - or entrepreneurs who wanted to hang out in farflung places - for meals.
  Posted 14 months ago by oscarette | Permalink
- You make some interesting points, Viv. I'm not sure, at root that I agree. Maybe I'm OK with there being 'no point' to the game. Or the point for me is I love exploring and wandering in the beautiful surroundings, I enjoy doing silly things, I enjoy interacting with friends and neighbours, I also enjoy quiet time when I don't want to interact with anyone and just hide out doing my own thing. I think the way the game is structured gives people a lot of freedom to play how they like. They can sell to vendors if they want or on auction if they don't want. They can flog things on the street, acting as a street peddler. People have the choice of whether they want to buy or whether they want to earn and make things themselves. Choose whether they want to exchange with other players or do it all themselves, if they want to spend the time. I think it allows for a game with a lot of different types of player, which to me makes things quite interesting. Currants can be ridiculously easy to acquire, once you are established, but it's rather nice that you are free from worry about that aspect and you can explore, create, interact in the way you want to without having to stress about it. But I am happy with the 'sandbox' style of game, I am not sure that others are. I hope if Tiny Speck are making changes they won't be too drastic. I'm sure there is room for some tweaks. To me, though, Glitch frees a player from worrying about quests and goals, after a point, and lets them think up other entertainment for themselves and their friends. The suggestions about about changing the economy sound as if they might be a bit...stressful. And based on some people's idea of how world economies should be run, perhaps imposing one kind of political economy on everyone.
  I am particularly against restricting what skills people can learn. I don't like the idea of specialisation. I thrive on variety and if I was stuck doing one thing all the time, I would get bored very quickly and stop wanting to play. And I would feel very resentful about my fun being spoilt in this way.
  Anyway, see you in Ur very soon! xxx
  Posted 14 months ago by Violet | Permalink
- "No point in mining just to sell to vendor and no point in selling in auction cause someone else has the skill so they can go do it for themselves.Everyone can do ALL skills so we don't really need anything from anybody."
  This has been my problem with the game, too. I feel like nothing I do is of any value to anyone around me or the game as a whole, because anyone could do it. Eventually, it seems like specialization will be forced as more and more and more skills become available to us, but until then...what? Personally, I've started doing things like the Cubimal Racing League and a church, to keep the fun in the game for now.
  Posted 14 months ago by Rev. Desdemona | Permalink
- If I may put my two currants in... I think that part of the issue is that, while everyone CAN do all the skills, not everyone DOES do all the skills. I've got virtually all the mining and alchemy skills, but I don't make any of my own powders and only mine to produce stuff to donate to shrines, because I don't find it to be fun. I could easily have all the drink-making skills, but chose instead to focus on other things, so I buy most of my drinks.
  What I do in abundance is feed piggies and batterflies (mostly because I have the maturity of a 5-year-old and find virtual poop to be hi-larious). There are alot of people that don't do that, because they find it tedious and boring. I don't, so I sell lots of seeds and guano on the auction market and people pay large sums of money for them when they could easily go and do it themselves for free, or pay less to a vendor.
  When it comes down to it, I don't think we need artificial barriers to what we CAN do (i.e. skill barriers or not being able to dump resources into the vendors or shringes, as that is a valuable way of removing overly abundant resources from the economy). It just doesn't seem that broken to me if everyone can do everything, but then chooses what is fun for them.
  I will, however, agree that the auction system stymies in-game interaction. Hawking your wares is no fun at all, because it is easier to go and buy things at auction, so people just ignore you. I don't have a good solution here, though I do like the idea of market stalls or an open, in-world market.
  Dunno, those are my musings. Very thought provoking discussion. :) Thanks for posting it.
  Posted 14 months ago by Grem Sketch | Permalink
- Maybe they need to spread out the items in the Tinkering skill. Instead of getting all of the basic items in Tink4, maybe get a few with each skill level. Following this train of thought you'd have to find someone to make your advanced tools for you or learn the next tink skill.
  Also maybe include in the vendors the chance of them running out of items. Say they sell out of grinders, someone who can make them could sell them to the vendor and refill the stock but the prices for buying/selling would be the same all the time like they are now. There would have to be a few of the more basic tools that you would have to always have on hand for new glitches though.
  Another idea that might be more realistic as the world opens up more are regional specific items at the vendors , firefly jars only in the swamps?
  Posted 14 months ago by BlackWolf | Permalink
- @Grem I do agree with much of what you say. I disagree that people ignore you hawking on the streets. I've sold stuff very successfully standing on the street peddling my wares...and it's been great fun. I've never needed to advertise on the forum or anywhere other than where I'm standing. Of course auctions reach a wider audience, what I do is mainly for fun but sometimes I do sell quite a lot. My reasons for doing it though are for interacting with other glitches. If I didn't like doing that, I would just use auctions instead.
  @BlackWolf - rather like the idea of vendors selling out of things now and then.
  Posted 14 months ago by Violet | Permalink
- The main thing that I agree with is that there should be an EXCLUSIVE skill at the ultimate end of each skill tree, and you can only have one of the exclusive skills. If you want to switch, you would have to unlearn that skill before you could learn a different one.
  Posted 14 months ago by Jewel Stoned | Permalink
- Jewel Stoned, have you not noticed that the skill trees are created with exactly the opposite philosophy?
  For example, in order to use your Tinkering V skill to craft certain tools, you have to have fairly high level skills in entirely different skill areas.
  Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- I wish that more skills were donation locked. If some were locked to a first emblem and some to a second, there would be a more of a point to me continuing to mine and squeeze chickens. Right now I am still enjoying the game, mostly for the social aspect, but, in terms of game playing I can't figure out what my goal should be once I have a house.
  Posted 14 months ago by Rathany | Permalink
- I have only skimmed the posts, but my knee-jerk reaction is that locking things and creating paths that exclude other skills would not be a good idea.
  1. this game is very new and players have not yet figured out the full range of the game. for that matter, we haven't really SEEN the full range yet. when the game has matured, various directions may be clearer. glitchen that have a particular interest or talent may enocurage others to follow a path. experts may take on apprentices or something. who knows...
  2. the thing that seems to puzzle people the most about this 'game' is that it has no final goal (how do I win?). When it becomes clearer that it is experiential as opposed to 'winning something', I think people will relax more and look for things to do based on their own temperament. I think this will slowly change attitudes about the best way(s) to play the game.
  3. personally, I would like to wander and explore according to my immediate interest, with no restrictions because of exclusive tracks or paths that I must choose. I think Grem Sketch made some very interesting points that reflect my feelings.
  Posted 14 months ago by bludwaggie | Permalink
- It *might* be fun to have a few items that could only be crafted when, say, three Glitches do it together, either of differing skills or all one. Or it might be fun to have certain items that could only be traded, not sold.
  And what about a coven of witch Glitches stirring their vat of something?
  Posted 14 months ago by Osprey | Permalink
- Why could there not be a few skill tracks that are only achieved by 'spending' other skills, so you could choose to generalise or specialise?
  Posted 14 months ago by Osprey | Permalink
- @Violet: Your experience in hawking your wares is much different than mine, then. I'm glad that there are people that ARE able to make that sort of interaction work and have fun with it. Perhaps I'll need to try some different tactics in the future. :)
  Posted 14 months ago by Grem Sketch | Permalink
- my feelings echoes Violet's, i like the open world of Glitch and would hate to see it become more like the hundreds of other games out there that force you down a certain path. the choose-your-own-adventure feel of Glitch is, in my opinion, a significant part of it's charm. however, i can see how this rankles the more goal-oriented, achievement motivated but... at a certain point, in this mindset, doesn't every game end? there's always going to be a ceiling to hit.
  i think people are just getting restless waiting for new things to do and explore. what Glitch needs is more in-depth activities with several steps to take. right now things are very mindless and repetitive, i'd love to have things to do that actually require thinking instead of just button mashing. it also really needs more fun social activities (party spaces really failed in this respect, they're nothing but transparent currant sinks).
  more in-game mechanises for players to socialize and create their own fun could bring Glitch to the next level. how about in-game support for hosting events, contests, or games? imagine an easy built-in way to advertise them instead of spamming global and dropping notes... like an events building where you can see who's hosting, the activity involved, any cover charges, any prizes and the participants that have signed up. every so often Rube-like creatures could crash the event and gives out items, toys, xp, etc.
  Posted 14 months ago by Fur | Permalink
- This is only one aspect of the conversation, but the "interactive selling to players" aspect is the #1 thing I dislike about other MMOs, so I'm glad Glitch doesn't make it necessary. I do think it should be an option, but hawking my wares--and having to keep constantly on top of how much things are worth--is too nerve wracking for me.
  Posted 14 months ago by Pomegrandy | Permalink
- I only skimmed (yes, being a bad forum reader) but something to think about...
  The Glitch economy is in its baby stages. Maybe its toddler stages. But Tiny Speck as stated that the "scaffolding" is slowly going to be removed. The intent, if I understand it, is to remove from vendors anything that can be made by players. I don't expect the ability to SELL anything to vendors will ever totally disappear but once there are enough players, I expect vendors will pay a lot less. Maybe 50% or even 30% of the "value." This will allow players to sell to vendors if the auctions are flooded and want instant cash but will also make going to the auctions more profitable.
  Posted 14 months ago by Lord Bacon-o | Permalink
- I think it would be great if the street spirits would be RE-sellers of what we produce. If an item was not produced by players they would run out of that item, and raise the price they would buy from us (reducing some of their 20% profit margin) until stock levels returned.
  If an item became over produced they would decrease their 'Buy' price until the glut was eliminated. This variable would encourage players to diversify their production.
  Posted 14 months ago by Meezley | Permalink
- Thank you everyone who responded to my post. The feedback that came out of it blows me away - so much thought and ideas and also the fact that TS is still in early doors yet. I do stress that my writings came from how lonely I can be in the game because I am self-sufficient and Zinfidel has hit the nail on the head for me - more of a community feel and working together. Again I stress that this is only one person's (mines) opinion and if I did not enjoy the game I would not be here. I would rather come up with Ideas rather than complaints but I marvel at how you guys (players) are there to come up with ideas/solutions (reading other posts as well have drawn me to this conclusion).
  And as you know Violet as we chatted about this - by no means do I think that any glitch should be restricted to just one skill...I would so be outta here pdq if that was the case. But as I said before, reliance on other players to bring more of a community feel would be nice.
  Thank you everyone for not being too harsh on me too <3
  Posted 13 months ago by Really Pissed Off | Permalink
- In response to the OP, you can't look at Glitch as you see it now as if it were a 'finished' game. It is being added to at the edges.
  Right now Glitch has a deflationary economy. Far too much capacity chasing stunted demand. If it weren't for the tool vendors setting a price floor the economy would crash and Glitches would be 'starved' out of any productive capability.
  What's needed, and what I hope the next wave of open areas provides, is an inflationary 'kick'. There should be lots of new things to do, and ideally new choices to be made in order to do them. Demand for raw and processed materials should soar.
  Posted 13 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- I like having a lot of skills and doing many different activities in a day. My enjoyment of picking beans I need to make Awesome Stew is not stealing anything from people who want to pick beans and sell them.
  There were some artificially high auction prices when a big influx of new people came in at the end of September. Now many of those have acquired skills they enjoy using. I think the solution to the Glitch economy will be continuing to expand items people can create and buy. Look at all the fun and activity that was generated by Zilloween pumpkins!
  The point of Glitch is for people to have fun and explore, not to provide a pool of needy customers bidding up auction prices.
  Posted 13 months ago by Vocable | Permalink
- "Maybe 50% or even 30% of the "value." This will allow players to sell to vendors if the auctions are flooded and want instant cash but will also make going to the auctions more profitable."
  This is the same thing I was thinking. With the vendors paying so much for everything, there is little reason to even try selling to other players. I tried selling EHSP on the AH for a while, but made a much higher profit margin by just dumping sparkly to a vendor. And once you have a pile of currants, there is not much need to earn anymore.
  Another thought for a more player-driven economy is the one thing everybody loves to hate: item decay. I have broken my fancy pick a hundred times, but it is still as good as new and I have never had to pay someone for another one. Maybe a 5% reduction in max quality everytime it is repaired? But then, since I likely have the skills to make my own anyway, maybe there wouldn't be any point.
  Posted 13 months ago by Hannah Lizardbreath | Permalink
- I think Glitch is too young to be thought of this way. There will be more places to explore and more skills to try. The joy is that if you get bored with using one skill, you can use the others more. Having these activity choices is a good thing in my view, because small changes in the game can really affect what I do and don't like to do - and change is very much ongoing. You can say the game is post-launch, but it feels a lot like an ongoing beta, minus the down-time, as I see it.
  Posted 13 months ago by gimmegames | Permalink
- What will the world look like a year from now? I postulate that everyone (1) will be able to make their own goods - not being reliant on others, and (2) All products for sale on the AH (except the most rare) will sit at "Tool Vendor value + Fees".
  We need asymmetry! To wit:
  (1) Limit skill trees to allow specialization. This would encourage community development and engagement
  (2) Local Bazaars. (I know this will be met with some trepidation, but bear with me). Discontinue the universal Auction House. Have a location in each region where players could go to exchange and barter goods. They could do it "live", or they could interact with something similar to the message boards. I believe breaking the universal access to goods, will create new reasons to travel and interact. The universal AH might still show information, but it would be obfuscated (e.g. there are 12 musicblocks available in Bortola).
  Getting beyond the fact that it is "cool" to buy stuff on my mobile phone when not logged in, a local bazaar system would make a better game experience.
  The reason for my two suggestions would be to look at ways of making the world "bigger", and create a value to the markets.
  I like Glitch today, but definitely see many people are already at the "end game". Until there are more tools to extend the imagination of the giants, the social mechanic can only go so far..
  Posted 13 months ago by pixel | Permalink
- Every game has an early-game, mid-game and late-game. Early game was when you felt like you barely had any actions that netted you energy and you had to be careful about what you did so you didn't run out. Mid game is what we've all been playing since then. Late game, which many of us are just starting to enter, is when you are high level (level isn't that important, probably 30+ is fine) and you have all or nearly all the skills.
  And, just like in every game, as we get to late game we are going to start wondering what we are supposed to do now. Up to this point there were always new skills to learn and with each new skill there was a new thing to do. Now the game is going to stop giving us things to do and we will have to do things ourselves. In other games this usually means beating the last boss, or in other MMOs it means beating whatever boss they just put in.
  So I don't think the problem is that we are all the same. We'd get to late game either way, and having to mine so that you can buy cherries from other players doesn't seem like more compelling gameplay than collecting cherries yourself. Either way, without some source of enjoyment from just playing the game things will get stale.
  But the pace at which things are added to this game is really staggering. In their one month anniversary blog post, the developers talked about some of the things that will be coming in the game. Customizing your house or building locations with other players both sound incredible to me. If nothing else, we can surely expect some more holiday celebrations. I think this game has a lot to offer and will have a lot to offer in the future.
  Mostly, I'd say that if you are getting a little bored with what is in the game now and you decide to leave it behind, come back and check in with it again in a couple of months, I think a lot of very interesting things are going to be happening.
  Posted 13 months ago by Humbabella | Permalink
- Many players have yet never encountered 'The Boss' in Glitch but it does exist. I am talking about The Rook. I think people are rushing things. More new things and features are on the way. Take a little time off if there isn't enough happening.
  Posted 13 months ago by Parrow Gnolle | Permalink