Topic

can we just settle this. family game or not?

i can't really find an official definition for what a family game is or not, but i mean, it's essentially the same as a 'family film' in regards to the use of language. so, while 'family game' doesn't have an objective definition (yet), 'family film' does. it's "a film genre that is designed to appeal to a variety of age groups and, thus, families." i think we all agree that the game appeals to many age groups. i suppose we could also agree that the game is PG-13 considering that a player must be 13 years or older to play (with parental consent). films typically are upgraded to PG-13 from PG when language is used sparingly (generally, less than 4 times) or the movie is especially violent. note that Glitch never uses language and is never violent, so the game really should be PG or even G. Certainly, it would be rated E for everyone with a disclaimer that they cannot control the content experienced online.  

ultimately though, the game has parallels with a family film that's rated PG-13. and as such, we shouldn't use language. 

thank you for your time.

(edit: ToS says 14 years or older, so I guess PG-14 would be more accurate.)

Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Truthfully, you still haven't proven that it meets #1 or #4, either.

    And #2 is on shaky ground. Don't confuse art style for appeal. This game would not appeal to my mom, whereas my dad might enjoy it for awhile. But they both enjoy a rousing game of Skip-Bo. And though it may appeal to my 10-yr-old niece, so do scrambled porn and graphic horror movies. We still don't want her watching them. She also enjoys Skip-Bo.

    You confuse playing a game with your family with playing a family game. Still. I am sorry that playing a game with a thousand other people doesn't equal a family game, even if you create a safe space for your family within that game.

    By your logic, Grand Theft Auto IV is a family game because I can technically play it with specialized rules for family members. My niece will be pissed when I tell her we don't run over prostitutes or steal cars when we play with Uncle Quirk....
    Posted 15 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am being mocked, and it's disrespectful.

    Or, you are being mockable, and it's amusing?

    Post after post of people trying to talk to you, to reason with you, over and over again.  At a certain point it's seen as futile, and hilarity ensues.  Pitchforks or pratfalls, your choice.
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How dare all of you mock Mr. Dawwggg!!!!1!!eleven!
    Posted 15 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, this thing is still going on? 

    Dawgg, you set up a nice stage for someone from Tiny Speck to swoop in and wholeheartedly stand behind your statement that Glitch is a game that should be acceptable for kids. The exact opposite happened. That's a bummer, but it's one of the risks of putting yourself out there like that. It was the forum equivalent of a rejected wedding proposal on the Jumbotron at a baseball game. Sad trombone time, and time to move on.

    I think this is really all on you. Can you handle the level of pearl-clutching required to fortify yourself as your kids encounter shitty people using fucking crass language and who-the-fuck-knows what else as they wander around in Ur? If so, congrats! If not, you may want to look into getting a Wii!
    Posted 15 months ago by Little Poundcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg:

    Firstly, you said that, in your opinion, Glitch is a family game.  You asked for my definition of a family game.  I gave you my definition.  You can disagree with me if you like, I'm just saying that a family movie isn't one where Jimmy, Susie, Mom and Dad all watch it on separate TVs, and therefore a family game isn't one where they play it in different rooms.  That's my personal definition.  You are not required to agree.  By my definition, no online game is a family game, because I don't consider it to be a bonding experience for family members.  

    I am also noticing that you don't respect people's opinions after asking for them, and you are ignoring our questions to you.  So I ask you again, if not censoring our language (see Merriam-Webster's definition of censoring as suppressing content that is judged to be objectionable), what exactly do you wish to accomplish here?

    Also, what ages are you considering for your "family" in a "family game"?  Certainly, I agree with Lord Bacon-o that, going by the ToS, it seems more like an R-rating, wherein children under 17 are allowed with parental consent.  This would mean that there is no need to censor ourselves, and that yes, it could be "family friendly" if everyone in your family is over 14 and you are personally okay with the younger ones seeing whatever content there is to see.  

    But generally?  Not a family game.  Not a substitute for a game in which family members could bond and in which actual lessons (such as being a graceful winner or loser) can be imparted by the adults to the children.  You know, something that actually helps younger family members and allows the parent/child dynamic to be invoked, as opposed to a game in which strangers are essentially babysitting your kids.  I mean, for fuck's sake man, you are asking strangers to alter their standards, mores, and overall in-game behavior so that they can influence your kids?  Wouldn't it be easier for everyone to influence the individual kids in their own lives and come to the game in order to escape from being a role model, interact with adults, and have fun while the kids either sleep (I mostly play at night) or do something constructive?  I sure as hell was not allowed to sit in front of any electronic device for hours on end, or to interact with people unknown to my parents.  You, sir, are advocating both, and requesting that we all become paragons of your predefined "good" behavior for the sake of the children!  

    I say to you, for the sake of the children, send them outside to play, to catch real butterflies and climb real trees.  Feed them healthy snacks while you're at it.

    For the sake of the adults, leave the children out of Glitch.  Let us have one, ONE non-violent, cute, funny, un-winding-type corner of the fucking internet.  If you must park the children in front of the computer, send them to Neopets.  

    (I apologize for the cursing, but I don't do so gratuitously, and I refuse to censor myself for you.  I also don't think I used anything in an offensive way.)

    ETA: And you don't even have children?  Why then do you care so much?  Are you just an advocate for public decorum in general?  Because if so, I will have no choice but to curse at the top of my lungs when you approach me in-game, just to see you run away with your hands over your ears (speaking figuratively, of course)!
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, have you BEEN in chat in the game? I've watched it quite a lot. And I rarely see anyone cuss. For real.
    Posted 15 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, my neopets are probably dead by now. It's been years since I checked on them last.
    Posted 15 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, have you BEEN in chat in the game? I've watched it quite a lot. And I rarely see anyone cuss. For real.Posted 3 min ago by Quirk | Permalink
     I'll bet there will be from now on, just out of pure contrariness.  
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So Mr. Dawgg wants us to agree that this is a family game so that s/he can remind us in-game not to use foul language?  Perhaps there's a nanny fetish that is being played out here.

    Mary Poppins outfits, coming right up in Wardrobe.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eliza Thornybur wrote: ETA: And you don't even have children?

    Wait, WTF? This whole thread was about whether it would be okay for children when OMG THE KIDZ was really just a cover for one dude's delicate sensibilities? I don't really know what to say.

    The internet, man. What the hell.
    Posted 15 months ago by Little Poundcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you remind me that I am in a "public chat" (which it's NOT, as it excludes anyone not signed up and currently on Glitch, and anything "public" is by definition not excludable), I will proceed to say, "Oh, I am?" and proceed to jump all over the street saying naughty words.

    No lie.
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • DJ: Yes, I am far too innocent and naive for my age.  Seriously.  It's sad.
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would be happy to provide a glossary of naughty words and phrases for anyone interested in Eliza's idea.
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "That is, the game allows 14 year olds to play, and PG-14 movies only allow a bit of language to be used. As a result, a PG-14 game should be fairly free of foul language."

    As we are currently running along the specific line set out by Canadian film ratings, which is valid because the TS team is half in Canada, and Canada as a society is almost the exact same as society in the US at this point in time, I will make a point.

    As it stands, you require parental permission to play Glitch.
    As it stands, you can watch a movie rated 18A with an adult present if you are 14 or older.
    Thus, as consent implies presence, at least at the time of purchasing the movie ticket or renting the DVD, the equivalency would actually be 18A not 14A, and 18A allows for a plethora of adult language, ("frequent coarse language") and is in fact the highest that a film can be rated for coarse language use (as stated by the BC film classification board which is the relevant board in this case)

    This means not only that language cannot be a determining factor in the age-appropriateness of those over the age of 14, but also that Young Adults over the age of 14 only require some guidance when confronted with extreme use of coarse language, as it need only be an adult(18+) accompanying them, not a parent or guardian.

    And I might add that the worst thing that has ever been said to me in terms of offensiveness, coarse language, and sexual innuendo was spoken by someone who was either 12 or 13 years of age (8 years ago, not a new phenomenon), thus the idea that we as adults need to "shelter" 14 year olds from our "language" is just plain ridiculous.
    What we need to "shelter" youth from is casual degradation of others being widely accepted by society, which this game and forum has done quite nicely, making sure to point out when someone is being just plain mean to someone else almost every time I have seen it.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • this thread is another reason i love glitch so much. where else do you see such a humorous and articulate handling of trolls?
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Eliza Thornybur: I am every bit as naive as you, then!
    @Pallas: I'M IN.
    Posted 15 months ago by Little Poundcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's important not to move too quickly, Geeki, or you can scare them off.
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @biohazard ohhhh canadian society is the same as that of the US? them's fighting words;)
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @DJ: Good to know I'm not alone!
    @Pallas: I too need a glossary...
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Quirk I actually checked on my own ancient Neopets account recently and, apparently, while they are in the process of dying (Their hunger level is listed as 'dying'.)  they still live.

    Just thought I'd let you know your Kougra, Chia, Usul, or what have you is still technically alright. ;P 
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mr. Dawgg, you first appeared to be asking a question, to which people replied.  You rejected their answer and then appeared to try to make an argument that people shouldn't use bad language in the game.  I (among many, many others) pointed out that your argument fails.  So it seems that you are doing nothing but pronouncing how *you* think people should act.  But what you are failing to do is convince us why we should listen to you.  What is your standing?  Why should we think that Glitch is public-like-a-grocery-store (into which anyone can wander and do business) rather than public-like-a-pub (into which only adults can do business).  Others have given *reasons* why they disagree with you.  What would it take to convince you that you are on the wrong side of this?  If you can't suggest a clear answer to that, then you are simply being unreasonable in the sense that you are only stating your opinion as though it were fact (that is, if there are no conditions under which your statement/assertion could possibly be false, then it is merely dogma).  If you can't demonstrate why others *should* agree with you (rationally or at least psychologically), you shouldn't expect that people will.

    Along the same lines, given Stoot's joke (which I did find funny), we have reason to believe that at least for a while Tiny Speck was watching this thread.  We may have bought subscriptions, but they're paying the bills--we're on their turf.  They don't have to allow us free speech, but they have declined to formally "side" with you here.  You might want to consider that reason to think that your position is not that of "management."

    That said, I've seen discussions in global chat that I found offensive, but no "bad language" was used--just English words individually perfectly acceptable in normal discourse.  I just have *NO* need to hear of people's detailed sexual prolicliviites while I'm trying to milk my butterflies.  So, like Pallas (I think it was Pallas), I turned off Global Chat for a while.  More disturbing to me, I saw piggies with names that were deeply (DEEPLY) hostile to women.  So I renamed them after the kindest things I could think of.  Problem solved!
    Posted 15 months ago by noqualia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We could have a "word of the day" for Global Chat and Local Chat.  You'd be required to use it at least 5 times in a Glitch day, to be sure it had really been incorporated into your vocabulary.  More knowlegeable Glitches could help the rest of us out by explaining the nuanced uses of the new word. 
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Geeki
    How exactly?
    We reelected a robotic dunce of a leader, after he made it perfectly clear that his goal was to be Mini-America.
    The only differences are in tastes in food, and a few social services we provide (albeit rather shoddily at this point, speaking as someone who should be on the receiving end of them)
    (edit, I realize you were joking-ish and this sounds completely confrontational, it isn't really. I just find people who are often in the dark about how similar we really are sometimes.)

    @Quirk
    Don't worry, Neopets NEVER DIE! They just make adorable sad faces at you, like a cat being given a bath. They act like it's the end of the world, but no harm ever comes from it.

    @Everyone
    I may be mis-remembering, but I am fairly sure that I remember our friend Mr Dawg swearing at me in IMs a while back. I am in the full belief that this is a control issue, just as it was the last time a kerfuffle was made by him (and admittedly me in part)
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • here's the rule about language in my house:

    i live next to a golf course. if i am disturbed in my home by your use of the word "fuck" from the 5th tee and i do not like your tone when i speak to you about it, you will four-putt the seventh hole.

    i can guarantee this because i have a trombone and i know how to use it. nothing serves this purpose more effectively than a trombone. not drums, not bagpipes, nothing.

    trombone is a family instrument.

    by the way, did anyone notice that on a certain street in groddle two tests ago there were an awful lot of pigs named "trombone?"

    in the great trombone wars, a teacher in a room adjacent to mine was demonstrating the trombone to her class, very severely disturbing my lecture. "are you gonna let her get away with that?"  my students asked.

    so i got out my trombone and blasted back.

    much hilarity ensued for the following two years, to the dismay of the math department upstairs.

    so when faced with a poster who is SO completely out of touch with reality and carrying this weird tell-everyone-else-how-to-behave agenda, the only thing i know how to do is flee to the back row of the orchestra.

    you know the difference between a bull and an orchestra, right?

    well, on a bull the horns are at the front and the asshole is at the back.

    i heard that joke whispered by a pulitzer prize winner.

    i think people started out responding seriously to the OP, but it all just became the best joke going pretty quickly.

    if you'll excuse me, i have to go over there with my trombone and eat some cheese.

    you keep swinging, mr. dawg. this is funny, funny stuff.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, I like that idea, Windborn!  Squee!  Etymology!!!eleventy!!
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmm, do you mean a legitimate new word, or a new word that would be a word usually deemed 'coarse'? I figured it was probably intended as a jab toward Mr. Dawgg, but I think that would actually be quite a fun addition to the chat if we actually used obscure/new/fun words. :)

    In homage to Mr. Dawgg I believe the first word would have to be either fornicate or trombone, however. ;P
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @noqualia you raise a really good point. @mr dawgg is concerned with naughty words, when it is really hate speech (i've sadly seen a few homophobic comments in game so far) that we shouldn't be tolerating, regardless if the game is for families or not. 

    i don't care if people say fuck or shit, but i do care when people use homophobic or misogynistic or otherwise hateful language
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • this thread moves too damn fast to respond intelligently!

    I'm off to bed, my sweet Glitchen, with any luck there'll be 300 new entertaining posts by morning!
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @biohazard well... quebecers would certainly disagree. but that's a whole other discussion, cuz many quebecers wouldn't consider themselves canadian cuz (to your point) english canada is so americanized.

    however, i read a psychographic study a few years ago saying canadians have much more in common with germans than americans, so there you go.
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Do you guys understand context? .....By language I mean foul language.

    Didn't you know I meant a foul new word? ;-)
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • in honour of mr. dawgg's awesomeness, i would like to officially propose that whenever we see him in glitch we greet him with a "TROMBONE!"
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • or we could take prefectly fine regular words and re-define them as filthy.

    we've already proven that we are good at re-defining things.

    i think anyone who knows about the new meaning of "santorum"  and how THAT happened will catch on just fine.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Okay, see! I knew it. ;P I know Mr. Dawgg is just incredibly mockable (he is) but having a new word we're supposed to use in chat every day just seems like such a wonderfully Glitchy thing to have.

    I know having a legitimate idea in this crazy thread is probably impossible, but hear me out. ;P
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oooooh. @flask Dan Savage is my hero! I say we have a brainstorming session and decide what Mr. Dawgg, or just Dawgg to keep it simple, means. :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • dawgg, v. trans.

    a practice popular in the canadian maritime provinces of rewarding other people's children for shouting "fuck" during church.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "sorry I thought your question was rhetorical. I don't have kids. Not a fan of children."

    Seriously??  What  a load of crap!  I have a child now grown and 31 (not to mention numerous nieces, nephews, etc.) and I am sure many of the posters in this thread do also.  When my daughter was growing up I advised her.. (to paraphrase) 'You are going to hear language sometimes as you grow up that usually only adults use.. You will know these words when you hear them mostly by the way people use them.  You will never hear them from a teacher or in church.  If you want to know what they mean, ask me and I will tell you.  If you use these words, when you know better, around anyone that might find them offensive and they get upset with you or you get in trouble, do not come crying.  You are smarter than that.'  But I never tried to shield her from the real world because, for countless reasons, I believe this does a child person a huge disservice and only leads to a false sense of what the real world is.  Parents should parent their children the way they see fit.  People who are not parents have no business, imho, trying to parent someone else's children (unless they have been hired for that purpose).  Unless Mr. Dawgg's job title at TS is Surrogate Parental Enforcement Officer, then I think he needs get a life of his own.  That is all..
    Posted 15 months ago by Joni Mitchell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nope, it's for kids shouting "trombone" during church.

    And you've been double dawgged if someone actually plays the trombone during church.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @flask +1 x 10^42
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mr. Dawgg

    I have some questions.

    1. Do you have any hope that everyone here will agree not to use foul language in General Chat (or whatever replaces it)?

    I'll suppose for now that you don't.

    2. If not, are you hoping for some kind of agreement among a majority, or influential group, that there should be no foul language in general chat?

    3. Why does it matter to you if people use foul language? Is it because you don't like it? Is it because you want your children to be able to play? Some other reason?

    4. One possibility I've picked up from your posts is that maybe you would like to have some kind of community agreement to back you up when you object to foul language that you see. Is that right?

    It looks to me like your argument is that the nature and features of the game put it in a category that requires excluding foul language from general chat. I think that approach is futile, if I understand your purpose. I don't see anyone else posting here who starts reasoning from a position about what category the game is in, or even cares. It looks to me like the rest of us here, including those who don't don't like seeing foul language, are starting from the position that we don't want any kind of censorship on it, whether it's imposed by the administrators, or by the community, or even self-imposed, for reasons which have nothing to do with what category the game is in. It seems obvious to me an argument based on what category the game is in is absolutely futile here, if you really hope to reach an agreement against the use of foul language.

    If you really are seeking an agreement against foul language, then I suggest you try to learn more about people's reasons for not wanting censorship, and look for an argument that appeals more to their interests.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It really is amazing how trolls can bring people together :) This thread has been amazing!
    Posted 15 months ago by zig Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @windborn seriously, nobody ever shouts "trombone". it is whispered fiercely, like a threat.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @zig Yeah, it kind of is! Unfortunately, it is a bit strange to see the random messages dominating with well thought out rebuttals directed toward Mr. Dawgg sprinkled throughout.
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My parents never spoke of it, but cursed in Spanish.  I didn't realize that they had potty mouths until I was in high school.  I just thought that they were remarkably reserved when banging elbows on doorframes.

    My sister is also way younger than I, so I self-censored at home, and ended up not saying any curse word until I was 17 and in a play, wherein I was assigned a line specifically intended to get me to curse.  When I looked the girl in the eye and called her a bitch, she laughed so hard she cried, and said that it was funny, coming from me.  It took a lot of work to make the line believable (it was a small school, and everyone knew I didn't curse).  I've never actually called anyone that.  I don't like degrading people...
    Posted 15 months ago by Eliza Thornybur Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @davejohn at this point (or any point really) I don't think Mr. Dawgg is actually listening to the rebuttals so the randomness is becoming the reason to read the thread :p
    Posted 15 months ago by zig Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @zig I agree entirely, however, it doesn't make it any less strange. ;P
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i feel like now we should all give mr. dawgg a big group hug. we love you! it's all good! we'll try and be nice and civil but can't help if we get a lil silly in response to general silliness.
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think there are two fundamental questions underlying this debate:
    Should people in Glitch be polite to one another? and
    What is it to be polite?
    (Most folks who have posted here, including Mr. Dawgg, speak against actually forcing anybody to be polite.)

    Some people are arguing that it's rude to say words like "fuck." Others argue that it's rude to tell people to change their behavior.

    I think politeness is something deeper than either of those things. I think both sides are really saying the same thing: It's rude to do things that offend someone.

    That gets close, but not quite, to the heart of the second question. Now, I'm gonna get all Jane Austen on your asses. To be polite is to be considerate of the feelings of others. That's the core of all Austen's novels. That doesn't mean never offend anyone -- Elizabeth certainly offends Lady Catherine when she marries Darcy. It means to try not to offend anyone, unless the thing that gives offense is deeply important.

    As to the first question, it seems to me most people want others to be polite, and I hope most also want to be considerate themselves. Since nobody's going to force anyone (for which I'm grateful), we'll all have to decide for ourselves when the need behind an action is greater than the need of any who might be offended by that action.

    Also, TS may be taking a well deserved nap :)
    Posted 15 months ago by Ooloi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for Ooloi for a well cited and well thought out response amongst a sea of sporks, trombones, santorum and other nasties. Not that it hasn't been amusing here. ;P
    Posted 15 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Geeki

    I like your idea about a group hug, only ... I'm not a hugger.

    @Ooloi

    I'm not a hugger, but I'm tempted to make an exception in your case.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • and yet another reason to love glitch... the troll thread ends in hugs for all!:D
    Posted 15 months ago by Geeki Yogini Subscriber! | Permalink
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