Topic

Children playing

What are the rules on young children playing? I have noticed recently that there are a lot chatting and telling each other their ages. It was even suggested that they have their own chat, as there is some swearing and drug taking eg: NoNo, Purple. I thought this was an adults game. I would hate for this game to go the same way as my last favourite game. Children there were always begging, I have noticed a little bit of begging going on here.

Posted 15 months ago by Miss Melody Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • From the Terms of Service
    "If you are under 14 years of age, you are not authorized to use the Service, with or without registering. If you are between the ages of 14 and 17, you represent that your legal guardian has reviewed and agreed to these Terms."
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks Millie for your answer, there are children as young as 7 playing. I must keep a look out for them in future. Do you know if there is a way of reporting them?
    Posted 15 months ago by Miss Melody Subscriber! | Permalink
  • MM, there are so many threads on this, as well as the ToS rules from TS. As stated many times before, there is no way to absolutely stop kids from playing. Please, the nature of a child is to test boundaries. It's up to the parents to police their children and to know what they're doing. That said, this is a game that is geared more toward adults that are already aware of the fact that bad things are bad. We can (most of us, anyway) discern the fine line between witty n' silly and reality for RL purpose. Kids, for the most part, cannot. But then you have parents who don't give a rip what their children play, see, or say. Take the ones who play GTA.

    I think the last time I sounded off about this, I noted that we all have the ability to block players that we do not want to be able to contact us... I wonder if by blocking that player, if everything is blocked on both sides. Or do both players have to block the other for that to happen?

    I don't really see a plausible solution for this question... Additionally, I don't know how to link this thread with the many others floating about in the Forums. Is there anyone who can link this thread to the others?

    Sorry that I didn't really have a concrete answer for you MM.  See you in-World when we come back online after the holiday weekend.
    Posted 15 months ago by CoffeeSnob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Staff act if they are told about accounts of children.  As stoot said "This is not a game for kids".

    If you see someone playing who you think is less than 14,  you can pop in to Live Help to let staff know. 
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Windborn - if the Staff deletes the account of the under the age of 14 child, what stops said child from just opening a new account under a different name? Is there a safeguard of that nature in place? Because, I had thought of contacting someone at TS to let them know about someone I suspect is younger than 14, but then was like - "What's it matter? They figured out how to play the game the first time around, they'll just do it again."
    Posted 15 months ago by CoffeeSnob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nothing stops anyone from opening a new account if their first account is deleted.

    Some people will get discouraged after the first time.  Others may get discouraged after several tries.  Others will learn to behave in ways that do not draw attention to their age, and will then be able to play all they want. 

    If it becomes a truly problematic issue, staff would have access to some pretty awesome tools that will let them track the user in ways that will automatically delete new accounts created by that user.  I've seen such trackers in action, and I know that TS staff are familiar with them. 

    Because of various US laws, it is in TS's best interest to actively work to keep people under the age of 14 from having accounts.  Whether or not the person creates a new account, I've done my part by giving staff relevant information. 
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • CoffeeSnob, these are the same problems all "attractive nuisance" sites run into. Turning a blind eye to them is IMO a suboptimal solution.

    US laws on the books (COPPA is a major one: see www.coppa.org/comply.htm for details of compliance) require websites aimed at children to put a lot of time and effort into privacy management, parental notification and consent, and complaint-handling. All that time and effort (and money), obviously, subtracts from what TS can put into the game. TS, like many other web companies, would rather throw its resources into its product.

    The legalistic reason (note: I'm a librarian, not a lawyer) we should help TS ride herd on underage accounts, insofar as we can determine them, is that we will thereby bolster TS's statements about excluding children. Does that mean TS will never get into legal trouble? Sadly, no, because you're right about how hard it is to find and get rid of every single account owned by a child. It does mean that TS will have a much stronger "no, seriously, the Glitch community reports children when it sees them and we take immediate action to eliminate their accounts" argument should they be called into COPPA court.

    A less legalistic argument in favor of riding herd on children is that the more children we boot, the fewer irate parents we and TS will have to deal with in the fora and in TS support channels. Again, the more we can help TS avoid these problems, the more energy TS can devote to improving Glitch for us.
    Posted 15 months ago by Clumdalglitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. I'm not trying to be annoying or even thick-headed about this. It's just so overwhelming to try to think about who's younger than 14 and who isn't, coupled with the intense NEEEEEED to play the game that clouds my better instincts. I'm not typically a sweep-it-under-the-rug type of person, trust me when I say this

    My son is 12, but he will not be allowed to play this. Not because TS says so, but because I say so.    It's sad that other parents do not take the time to actually 'be' parents to their children.
    Posted 15 months ago by CoffeeSnob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The staff have asked before that if you notice anyone underage to open a help ticket about them, or go to Live Help.

    IP/MAC addresses can be blocked, if the company feels the need.
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Innie - really? That's good to know and makes me feel even better about taking the time to report something like this. I know that it isn't a waste of my time. Also, I didn't know about this, otherwise I'd have done something about it. It will definitely be in my thoughts as I play now.   Thanks!!  :D
    Posted 15 months ago by CoffeeSnob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • how does TS confirm if someone is underage or not?

    without this kind of confirmation, on what grounds could they delete an account or take other actions to prevent the child from playing?

    basically, i'm curious what the process is for confirming that a player is below a certain age, and what actions will be taken subsequent to that sort of confirmation? what actions might be taken without such confirmation?
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i mean, like if Innie goes to the help forum and claims i told her that i'm actually 10 years old, is my account going to be nuked and my IP blocked? 
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you say (in chat or on your profile or as an update) that you are 13 or younger, why shouldn't they take your word for it?
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic, there was a day where someone in the forums admitted they were under 10. They were indeed zapped.

    I would imagine they would watch the person, etc. I am not sure what their protocol is, since I do not work for them.  I just know I was told to report them.
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stri/windborn, that's actually a good question.  there is a player that i won't mention who used to insist that he was 9, although i always had a *really* hard time believing that.  evidence seems to suggest that this player is not 9, but should i have turned him in to be sent to the interrogation room?
    Posted 15 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I would imagine they would watch the person, etc. I am not sure what their protocol is, since I do not work for them.  I just know I was told to report them."

    what does "watch the person" mean? are they keeping developer accessible logs of all our IM conversations or something? if so do they have internal regulations on who is allowed to read such logs and under what circumstances?

    one would think that the protocol is rather important.

    if someone directly tells the developers they are 10 years old, then the developers are probably obligated under their own ToS to nuke the account or else begin to fall under the COPPA obligations, but that's not the scenario i'm talking about, nor is it likely to be the most common scenario when someone is reported.
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought I saw somewhere if a person is suspected of being under the playing age an email is sent to the parents to verify the child's age or for them to give their consent.

    But, I could have just made that up.  Lots of randomness floating around my brain
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic, I said I dont know.....I dont work for them and I dont know their protocol. 

    Other games I have played in the past had means to watch what people were saying, without being there (not by reading old logs, etc). However, I dont expect the devs to hand out their protocol for dealing with those under age, or how they come about finding that info out.  Its a need to know, and I dont need to know.
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I thought I saw somewhere if a person is suspected of being under the playing age an email is sent to the parents to verify the child's age or for them to give their consent."

    how is that possible? how would Tiny Speck have the parent's email on hand?

    the kid isn't going to sign up using their parent's email address.
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well if I knew how it worked then I would have probably explained further in my last comment.  I do not know how they acquire a parent's email address, maybe they ask the player directly for a valid email address.  I've been to sites before that ask for a parents email address if a child is under a certain age.
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Children find out very fast how to get around age restrictions.

    (edited)
    Posted 15 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think it's apparent that only the ones that are obvious about their age will be caught (and have been in the past, with their accounts quickly deleted). Maybe we shouldn't be telling little kids how to avoid being caught here.... but then again, it seems the younger children aren't very good at reading the forums anyway (they're much more apt at just posting stuff without checking to see if the same discussion already exists...) I think that just as long as TS makes a good effort at stopping those cases they are aware of, they will be fine legally. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To be honest, I don't think this game would keep childrens attention for an extended period of time.  Children, especially young children, really love interactive games and I think Glitch is too slow paced/boring for a good number of younger people.  My little brother (who is 10) watched me play once (I closed all the chats up and stuck to the "child appropriate" parts of the game) and he commented the game looked really boring and went outside to play basketball.
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I do not know how they acquire a parent's email address, maybe they ask the player directly for a valid email address."

    a child can get a "valid email address" via yahoo or hotmail or gmail in about 30 seconds.
    Posted 15 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep getting an email address is a snap.  Then all the child would have to do is sign/type their parents name. 

    Maybe we need test questions that only old people would know the answer to e.g. Have you ever filed a tax return.   lol
    Posted 15 months ago by xoxJulie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @xoxJulie Leisure Suit Larry used to do this. I remember being asked questions about early Fleetwood Mac albums or what Watergate was, or something similar.

    @Innie Flash running on the browser can't see MAC addresses to my knowledge, though even if it could, you can change this with the right software, overriding that set in hardware. I've had to do it in the past. IP addresses are sometimes now, in this broadband age, statically assigned though, so that would be a pain. It would also annoy mum or dad who played Glitch, but then, they should know better!
    Posted 15 months ago by beechamel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Laurali: They could send an email to the ISP of the user, but since it wouldn't have legal force, you are at the mercy of the admins there if they pass it on to the account holder. This is what groups such as RIAA do when they find someone copying music, but they get a lawyer to do it, and have support of the DMCA to...encourage...compliance.
    Posted 15 months ago by beechamel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My IP address changes every time I log on to the internet.  I share addresses with millions of other customers in my state.  Blocking IP addresses is not effective.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Leisure Suit Larry is something only an old time computer user would know about, how funny.  LOL
    Posted 15 months ago by xoxJulie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you know that a player is underage, please feel free to send me a bug report, and we'll address it.
    Posted 15 months ago by Jade Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As others have said, Glitch is not a game for kids and I know first hand the need to watch what my kids are doing on the net as often as I can... As a parent of 2 five year old girls, I feel inclined to state: "Parents should parent". If they cannot do such, it's not TS's fault. 
    Posted 15 months ago by c0mad0r Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Striatic:  I understand how emails work.  I am just telling you that I thought I heard this somewhere, cannot remember what thread it was on, and I am just repeating it.

    Again, I could be wrong.  I just remember hearing this

    ETA:  Kids can use Google to answer questions, probably easier than making a fake email address.
    Posted 15 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "If you know that a player is underage, please feel free to send me a bug report, and we'll address it. "

    See, I told you that's what they told me. Thanks Jade.
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you Jade
    Posted 15 months ago by Djoe6897 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm sorry,but...  LOL Jade!
    Thank you. =)
    Posted 15 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Okay, I'm not the only one who giggled at Jade's response. =D
    Posted 15 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was reading the responses and basically, here's what I think: If the devs have access to their (the child's) emails, couldn't they simply do a quick search? There are so many free resources out there to track down other accounts. Of course that wouldn't be the right way to handle delicate client information... but it works. usually.
    Posted 15 months ago by Chaesun Subscriber! | Permalink