Sign In

### Topic

#### TS: Public? Private? Could you end this debate?

The hand wringing and bickering is giving me a headache.
Could you please spell out the private/public thing with streets as of Now as well as the plan for the future?
The "debate" has gone from reasoned to conjecture to high-drama. in less than 2 days.
Please?

Posted 9 months ago by MrVolare | Permalink

### Replies

- Yes please! Main questions I have:
  How do I kick/ban people from my street?
  Are you still making changes to the access controls of the home streets?
  What items are supposed to be lockable (even if they are currently bugged)?
  Thanks TS! I really appreciate the hard work you guys are putting into this.
  Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink
- Neither words fully encompass the functionality of the Home street. Staff has already confirmed certain intentions for the Home street, so taking out this adjective and perceived definition issue, the parts have already been spelled out:
  1. Anyone can come to your street if they add you as a Contact;
  2. Blocked users cannot access your street;
  3. People can only enter your house if you let them in or if you gave them a key;
  4. Some items are locked down in your Home street (Icons, Animal Sticks, fully assembled machines etc), while most other items are not and can be picked up by anyone entering the street.
  Posted 9 months ago by TomC | Permalink
- You kick them by clicking them while they are on their street.
  You ban them by blocking them in game. (The block/ban however is bugged right now).
  Now sure what items are supposed to lock. I know that as of earlier, sticks, machines and icons are the only things that lock.
  Posted 9 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- TomC, this has been spelled out, but in seperate places through the housing thread, and I agree that it seems much of the consternation arises from divergent ideas of Public and Private.
  As there seems to be no end of debate, I am asking for staff to make it clear in a single post. (unless they're really into the whole Erisian thing, in which case, /fnord)
  Posted 9 months ago by MrVolare | Permalink
- As a word of caution: Tiny Speck may not yet be ready to spell out this information for us. They have released just a small bit of the changes that are coming and even though that small bit has given us a glimpse of the future, we have to be prepared that they may not be ready to be more forthcoming. We players should all try to be accepting of that.
  In the meantime, I won't put anything I value in front of my house (and just for the record, if they decide not to add lock-ability of some items, I'll be fine with that too. It is their decision and they have their own criteria for decisions - as well as more information than me).
  Posted 9 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- You realize this is a work in progress.
  Posted 9 months ago by AwesomeCardinal2000 | Permalink
- Oh I totally agree FP. I'm not putting anything of value in my front yard yet either. But it would be nice to know if they have any ideas/plans about this issue, so that everyone can calm down a bit and get back to happy Glitching :)
  Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink
- The functionality of a Home street is different from the functionality of what we've thought of as "public" streets in Ur. This difference is by design intent. When a TS staff member says a Home street is "public," that does not imply that all aspects of the current public street model apply now or must apply in the future to the Home street.
  The functionality of a Home street is different from the functionality of what we've thought of as the "private" interior and garden space of an owned home. Again, this difference is by design intent. When the game describes a Home street as "owned" by a player, that does not imply that all aspects of the current owned home model must apply now or must apply in the future.
  I'm thinking the OP will agree with both of the above statements.
  The debate arises because some players would like certain changes to the functionality of the Home street. Various reasons have been given for this, but two stand out for me: (1) The current design is confusing because it provides conflicting cues and no clear conceptual model, and (2) The current design does not give players control sufficient to exercise the responsibility that design suggests.
  Without speaking to the merits of the various changes users have proposed, I would say this:
  First, when a non-trivial number of users say something is confusing, then it is confusing. So it's likely that the designers at TS will take note of that and think about ways to address it.
  Second, when people feel they have responsibility without control, that also signals a problem. The problem may be one of perception, but this is one of those cases in which perception is reality. So again, it is likely that the designers at TS will take note.
  Finally, good design takes time and iteration. The design solutions users propose aren't always the best solutions. However, user discussion and debate often provides helpful input and sometimes produces wonderful ideas. Yes, sometimes the emotional level of the forums gives me a headache too. But we do have the option to stop reading :)
  Posted 9 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- Very well written, Splendora!
  You've addressed what I think is the biggest issue here: The mechanics, as they stand now, are confusing. Of course it's just a test, so things will change, but I agree that the current design is full of ambiguity and conflicting cues (i.e. what is lockable and what is not). Hopefully these will be addressed in the full release.
  Thanks for the insightful post!
  Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink
- I think this is all a test. TS doesn't know exactly yet how it will be, and the way we deal with it is telling them loads. :)
  Posted 9 months ago by Tibbi | Permalink
- www.glitch.com/forum/genera...
  Posted 9 months ago by Audaria | Permalink
- This looks to me like ignorance, not confusion. TS gave out the information "8 weeks" ago. There is nothing that they need to explain.
  Now, if folks feel the rules are poorly balanced, that's certainly a valid topic for debate*, but to say TS dropped the ball because folks who didn't read what they said jumped to the wrong conclusion seems crazy to me.
  * And yes, I accept that a reasonable argument can be made for change simply because the game acts in ways many many people find discomforting.
  Posted 9 months ago by Sturminator i` | Permalink
- I think of it the same way it works IRL. I may "own" the land, but the city still puts in the sidewalks, sewer, water, etc. I just have the privilege of taking care of it for them. It's a right of way, that I'm in charge of, but it's certainly not considered private because anybody in the neighborhood can go on a walk right past my house, right on "my" sidewalk.
  If they mess it up (dog poop, soda cans, candy wrappers), I still have to pick it up, after all, because it's MY yard.
  If I want to leave an old sofa out there for free, that's up to me. I'd expect that anyone who came along could pick it up and go. However, I certainly wouldn't leave my riding lawnmower - or flat screen tv out there on the street and expect it to stay for long.
  Now, if we have lockable storage, or drop boxes, that's another thing.
  Posted 9 months ago by Sooriyan | Permalink
- The "right" way to think of them is something like "They are public streets which are owned and controlled by a single player" or, maybe, "they are privately-owned streets which the public has access to, within limits" — either way, you're kind of right :)
  The fact is, though we have lots of opinions internally, we're going to wait a little while and see what kind of uses and issues arise before making any significant changes. It's a subtle thing. Besides, there are other features coming (style-switching and cultivation) which will change the way they are used and understood by players.
  Posted 9 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
- Thank you stoot.
  Posted 9 months ago by daniel5457 | Permalink
- Thanks for the reply stoot! As of right now, which items are supposed to be locked to our home streets? Are there plans to make feeders and collecters lockable?
  Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink
- Ah, Stoot, thank you. I figured as much.
  Posted 9 months ago by MrVolare | Permalink
- Stoot, you must be more sleep deprived than many of us when you are answering so late! Thank you so much for the information.
  Posted 9 months ago by Anatole Nymph | Permalink
- While things are being decided, I think removing the ability of visitors to poison the trees on a glitch's street would remove a major source of stress for many. Just my two cents. :)
  Posted 9 months ago by Tibbi | Permalink
- Stoot said: what kind of uses and issues arise
  What's the incentive to actually use your front yard/street for anything much if it is just going to be robbed and vandalised by some random passers-by.
  As fr issues, well, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce what they are going to be, arguments, stress and grief.
  Posted 9 months ago by Miss Parsley | Permalink
- Miss Parsley, the way to avoid grief is to only use 100% private portions of Ur. Even "private" houses are at risk -- Keyholders rob houses all the time. So what is the incentive to hand out keys?
  [ I in no way condone unethical play, but I deeply despise forcing players to act honorably. If they have no choice, there can be no real honor. I also do not buy the argument that just because you can steal everything in sight in public areas that means it is justified. ]
  Posted 9 months ago by Sturminator i` | Permalink
- Yes, Sturminator, I get that and agree with you
  My point was if TS are waiting for us to put a lot of effort into decorating and customising our own space, then there needs to be the tools for us to protect that work, othewise what's the point. You are just setting yourself up for disappointment when you go home and find it all trashed or stolen.
  You might as well leave as is and do something more productive.
  Posted 9 months ago by Miss Parsley | Permalink
- I agree completely with what Miss Parsley said in the comment directly above , and her like-minded comment just before that. !
  I know I have incomplete info on style-switching and cultivation for my front steet area -
  but I am guessing that even with these new changes coming : I am NOT likely to spend time with personalizing my front yard space if the "control " that Stoot mentions above is not changed about.
  Like Miss Parsley says above- why would I want to personalize my front yard space if random players (ie not keyholders or myself) can come along and make changes that cost me time, currants , game resources, and annoyance to then correct back to what I wanted for my front street ?
  Answer _ I wouldn't . Why would I bother with that aggravation ?
  SO , again , for me, then the result is : that then that -lack- of change on TS part -
  (which yep, they are totally entitled to build their game their way , and yep , it's beta so I am just expressing my beta player feelings and ideas in a non-freaked out way )
  will ***reduce*** how much creativity , and socializing (and other things) that I will have in the game.
  ------- and that reduction lessens my enjoyment of the game-and maybe others enjoyment to.
  (eg : A player (random or even a friend) comes by on a tour of streets hoping to see recurse eve decorations (or some such ) -well they will get a boring , non-enjoyable street on my street -because I won't have enjoyed decorating. Why? Because I didn't decorate . Why ? Because I couldn't lock down my decorations. Why ? Because that's the design choice the devs made after we tested it out in Beta.
  {Oh , I see } . )
  The above parenthetical example would also apply to *many * other examples :
  like , say , a player that is wandering streets for fun on a gathering expedition -cause my street wont have much resources to gather if there's no way for me to control what resources are there.
  Posted 9 months ago by serenitycat | Permalink
- Miss Parsley: as things stand, I agree with you, but when "style-switching and cultivation" come in, we'll have tools for decorating and customizing the home street in ways that aren't changeable by others, at which point things like maintaining animal feeders or controlling tree types in the home street may seem less important.
  (Wouldn't it be awesome to get to design Fnibbit Vista in Groddle Heights? If I got to do that, I think I could cope with other glitchen changing the trees around there.)
  Posted 9 months ago by Fnibbit | Permalink
- +1 to Sturm and MissP and Seren.
  Posted 9 months ago by Tibbi | Permalink
- I'll agree with Fnibbit here. Many players don't like the idea of people changing the decoration of their front yards, and rightfully so. But our currrent "decorations" were never truly meant as such. Perhaps someday soon we will have more options for the front yard that cannot be changed by random players, and these options will be so cool that arranging random chemicals on the ground will just seem lame.
  Posted 9 months ago by Shootsin Latters | Permalink
- It is true that our current "decorations" weren't meant as such. But we also couldn't customize our houses with furniture, or do many other customizations on our home streets because our home streets didn't exist.
  Part of the housing upgrade is to give players creative options. I (and I believe many others) would like to share the results of our creativity with others, but we don't necessarily want them ALL coming inside our houses. Many of us would also like to provide resources that can be accessed by visitors, but we don't want to give out a huge number of keys. We have no interest in giving away our items to thieves.
  The decisions TS makes will determine, for many of us, the degree to which we are able to express our creativity and provide resources in our home streets. If we were silent now, we would have no one but ourselves to blame if changes are not made. If TS chooses to change nothing, which is certainly their right, at least they'll know why much of the creativity and generosity is taking place behind closed doors.
  I haven't personally lost anything of value because I haven't placed anything of value on my street. And I won't be placing anything there that can be stolen.
  Posted 9 months ago by Audaria | Permalink
- +1 Audaria
  Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink
- Audaria, I agree completely with what you said above. It is exactly what I meant. If we don't speak up now (at risk of being patronised, told we are whining, etc.) then we only have ourselves to blame if we end up with street after street of sameness.
  Ok, so we will be able to choose from a range of decorations. Is that really creativity? I think making art or decoration with what we have available is far more creative than clicking on a selection. It may feel creative to some but all it is really is arranging pre-designed items in different combinations. The houses looked new and creative at first but squid sofas and yeti beds soon become part of the scenery.
  The most creative things I have seen here are people using everyday items in unexpected ways, not click, click, click from a row of someone else's art.
  Posted 9 months ago by Miss Parsley | Permalink
- I've got to second what Miss Parsley has just said. Choosing from a menu is nowhere near as "creative" as recombining objects in an unexpected and unanticipated way. (Or, as I keep hoping for, creating and including our own colors, textures, images, etc.)
  For example: THIS
  i.imgur.com/R76QO.png
  It's no surprise that the Glitch rainbow was created in a mostly inaccessible area… otherwise there was no way to guarantee the components would stay put long enough to be enjoyed as the creators intended.
  Please, TS, let us "paint" or "sculpt" in our own streets with the everyday objects we already have, and have a way to preserve our creations so that they're not made off with the moment we make them.
  Posted 9 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- I suppose a cynic might suggest that things like the Glitch Rainbow bring no revenue for TS, whereas pre-made click, click stuff will. There may be no incentive for TS as a company to help us protect what we create from free or currant gained objects.
  Posted 9 months ago by Miss Parsley | Permalink
- I personally think the only reason why "choosing from a menu" is less creative and interesting than recombining objects in a new way is simple math: there are a very limited number of design choices in the menu for this demo, and there are a lot of objects in the game.
  If there were a similar number of menu choices, there would be a similar number of standout designs. As is, there are already people doing things with these limited choices that did not occur to me at all -- some of these homeowners are some of the same players I know that do object art.
  As for whether or not things on our street should lock besides what already does, my opinion is based entirely on what that would take to code and execute, given the game as is. I've said elsewhere that what I'd really like is a UI that clearly shows whether things are locked down, that locks these things down even for the homeowner.
  But is it important to me? No, not really. It is no different than the situation outside my current home -- except that it is, in fact, a little bit better than the current situation, allowing more to lock than did before.
  But the real kicker to me is that locking down items on a street possibly makes it even harder for those that do object art for others and not themselves. Precise placement of items is a bit tougher when you cannot correct mistakes. So then we started getting into exceptions and ways to code those in and it gets more complicated.
  So do I think locking down object art on privately-owned public streets is a bad thing? No. Do I think it's a necessary thing? Well, no again.
  My only request is that it be made much clearer to the homeowner which objects lock and which do not.
  Posted 9 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- Again, this all may be a case of "wait and see". Not only will we have more stuff to pick from when decorating our house on the inside, but there will be further changes to the code and how it works.
  And the feedback, I'm sure, is quite handy, as Stoot points out that TS isn't all of one mind about this either!
  I think a lot of the drama about this is that we, the players, don't all agree, either! For instance, I'm more interested in helping to create a space where other players can play, interacting with my street much in the same way they might any other street. If I put something down, it's there to be tended, harvested and taken! (Unless it's a gnome, of course, who says, "don't touch that!") I'm personally not very interested in seeing personal streets become more private, but I am definitely looking forward to more customization of the landscape and the naming of the street!
  I think that this is a case where agreeing to disagree can actually work. If we just stick to reporting our issues and stop jumping on each other for doing so.
  Posted 9 months ago by Carl Projectorinski | Permalink
- I wouldn't want to end this debate, I find it interesting. I like the ambiguity of not knowing for sure who "owns" the street. Its semi-public, and as I said before, I like being a steward of a semi public place. Sure, the street has my name on it so its not like the lobby of the apartment lofts I had/have in the bogs (or the streets in the quarters). Its a little more personal. Personal doesn't have to mean MINE.
  You shouldn't get too attached to anything you "own" here because in reality TS owns everything and can delete your account for community standards violations or any other number of reasons. Ultimately they can't make a game like this without users investing their personal time, commitment, creativity, and subscriber fees, so in a sense they too are stewards of something not quite public but not really "theirs" either. Something else.
  Posted 9 months ago by Treesa | Permalink
- Speaking as the OP, this thread is getting diluted. The question was asked, an answer given. There are other threads for debate and most of what people are posting here would really be better posted to the ideas forum where others are already heaping suggestions upon TS for ways to improve the housing experience based on our interactions with this small beta feature set.
  To reiterate:
  "The "right" way to think of them is something like "They are public streets which are owned and controlled by a single player" or, maybe, "they are privately-owned streets which the public has access to, within limits" — either way, you're kind of right :)
  The fact is, though we have lots of opinions internally, we're going to wait a little while and see what kind of uses and issues arise before making any significant changes. It's a subtle thing. Besides, there are other features coming (style-switching and cultivation) which will change the way they are used and understood by players."
  ----
  >Insert end of Ferris Bueller's Day Off Here
  youtu.be/QRJ38y4Jn6k
  Posted 9 months ago by MrVolare | Permalink
- +1 to that.
  Posted 9 months ago by Carl Projectorinski | Permalink
- Discussion threads are like public streets. You can create one but you can't control what other people contribute to it.
  Posted 9 months ago by Treesa | Permalink
- Ah, but you can reiterate the original point and the conclusion for those coming in late. Especially when it seems like everyone's ignoring it. Ain't nothing wrong with reiterating.
  Posted 9 months ago by Carl Projectorinski | Permalink
- Thanks stoot for answering this.
  Am I the only one here that's tingling with excitement over the possibility of new forms of cultivation and new styles for our home streets?? ^___^*
  Posted 9 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ | Permalink
- +1 treesa
  Posted 9 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- Auren, not at all!
  Posted 9 months ago by Carl Projectorinski | Permalink
- Does this mean we have to stop the handwaving freakoutery?
  Posted 9 months ago by HeyGabe | Permalink
- **Handwaving 'Freak-out'-ery** (sorry, I just couldn't resist)
  Posted 9 months ago by ~Pink Flamingo~ | Permalink
- The fact is, I came back online after a few days to discover that someone may have stolen (plucked) all of my chicks from my yard!! I suppose I didn't realize that what's in my yard is fair game?
  I want my chicks back. There was a chick named after each of all of my friends, which were gifts from those friends, who put a lot of work and labor-intensive youth potion into them...and now...
  i haz no chicks. whatta pisser.
  Posted 9 months ago by scroobienoob | Permalink
- @scroobienoob - that sucks! I'm sorry you lost your chicks :(
  Posted 9 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink