Topic

Glitch feels overworked

As someone who had played Glitch several months ago and signed in to play again within the last few weeks, I feel that Glitch has actually gotten worse for the "new player experience". In one word, it feels overworked.

Glitch was something I was happy to recommend to friends a few months ago, as it was easy to get started and just figure it out as you go along. Now, however, it's overly-saturated with copy trying to explain tons of things to you from the beginning. Since the design was originally very large text for light-weight copy, this means that Glitch is throwing up lots and lots of dialogs that you have to continuously click next or close off on. It's tedious for players who would like to just get started playing and figure things out later. Essentially, the progressive disclosure was a LOT better a few months ago than now.

I have also heard from others that they feel it's overworked with how many choices you're given for creating your character. That the added complexity does just that: creates an additional thing for players to bother with when before it was more about playing the game than anything else. I get that it's a MMO and thus you want a world with unique creatures roaming around, but maybe pull back a bit and return to some of the simplicity you had while in Alpha.

Anyway, not trying to be a grouch, but I was told this feedback might be helpful.

Ariel

Posted 19 months ago by Ariel Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Not sure what you mean by "how many choices you're given for creating your character" - isn't it just a name, and a little later a look +  outfit? It's not like we have character stats or choose professions or anything.

    ETA that I love the writing, and have no problem with eg a four-panel clickthrough to have a quest explained, and a three-panel clickthrough to finish it off. What I do think is missing (and stoot has said it's a good idea to have) is a Journal which remembers stuff that has been explained so you can go back and look at it - this would be particularly useful for newbies, or anyone who just clicks-through the quest panels without stopping to sniff the roses.
    Posted 19 months ago by Spong Subscriber! | Permalink
  • At first, I was displeased with how few options I had when creating my character (luckily, I found out that later I could customize him).  I think it might be best to allow more customization when you first create a character.

    In terms of overworking people, I understand where you're coming from.  You definitely get a lot thrown at you very quickly, but I'm not sure if it's too much or just that I don't like to read :P
    Posted 19 months ago by Wessles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I actually like the level of complexity and many different ways to take (in sense of exploring the streets and in sense of learning new things and shaping your character.)
    Posted 19 months ago by nekomaki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I hesitate to respond, since I'm only L15 and haven't played through very far. I almost like that it feels a little overwhelming right at the beginning (though not to the point of frustration of paralyzation), because it feels like you really have to bend your brain a little to figure out what the heck is going on. Is that elitist, wanting players around you who have proven that they really want to be there and have invested a certain amount of time and energy?
    Posted 19 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just recently went through the new player tutorial again because my DH got an account that my son asked to try out.  He's little (8) and he thought the whole intro was awesome, and the notes on the ground explaining each item was super fun for him to read.  I think it's better than it used to be, having been through about three versions of it, but I also realize I can't possibly see it as a new player really would any more.

    I really love the idea of a Journal that a new player could keep and then read later at his/her leisure.  Maybe at the end of the tutorial streets, the rock could present the player with a notebook to store the notes, plus it would have some other information that could be accessed in game.  It should be a Trapper-Keeper too, btw.  Gotta be a Trapper-Keeper.  Or, less fun but more obvious, the Rock is the notebook.

    I am the kind of player that would want access to that notebook even when not playing the game, so maybe there could be a link to the content on one's profile page.  I know people can always read the wiki too, but you don't get a link to the wiki right from the get-go.  Plus the wiki is just as overwhelming to many brand new players--it works best when you are searching for something specific.

    ETA;  Riverwalker makes a good point that I forgot about...the pace of quests at the start is too much.  It's very disruptive when you are getting your feet wet.  It would be nice if Explore mode could be extended to be a bit longer OR if the Rock at first sends one message that says, "When you are ready for some quests to work on, click on me".
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wonder if it would be beneficial at some point before a reset and launch to have a handful of players reset and go through the beginning and really pick it apart: What actually makes sense and what is confusing. I know when I started, giving that sort of feedback to Tiny Speck was impossible... because you don't actually know what you don't know. Knowing what feels like too much and what feels like too little. (Of course, this is all subjective stuff. Some folks want to discover, others what it explained away. Some want to deal with very few choices, some want to see everything that will be available to them.)

    I definitely don't want to see the depth lessened. In the long run (and for the longevity of the game), the more options, the better. But I can see how going threw the tutorial and then being dumped in the street and into Global Chat would be overwhelming. There is a sweet spot somewhere. No idea where.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • it *is* complicated. i've never played an MMO before, and i've been tempted to keep a notebook myself, like pen and paper style notebook. then i found helpful players in the game, and the chat window (took me a LOT of levels to figure that out) and it got easier. and i also feel like having a notebook of my own means more commitment than i want to get into.

    too complicated? i don't know, really, since i've never played one of these games. i also think it depends what kind of player you want to be. the more puzzle-y stuff can be figured out with quite a bit of brain power or asking other players walking around or asking one of the top-10 most asked questions in general chat and waiting about 10 seconds for an answers. the easy to forget questions: where do i get an orange- can be figured out with a little rummaging around or exploring.  some of that is going to be WAY too much for some players, and WAY too little for others. it's a skill game in a way, but also a fun picking and planting flowers game in another.
    Posted 19 months ago by greenkozi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I do remember wishing the pace of new quests would slow down. It seemed like I was constantly having my attention shifted away from what I was doing. It might be nice if there were a way to click a choice of (a) I want to explore uninterrupted and figure it out on my own. 
    or (b) Please keep the instructions coming!

    For those wanting more help maybe there could be an option to display an in-game indicator, like a feather in a cap for instance, that would show that the player would like some personal mentoring. I'm not sure what sets greeters apart from the rest of the players but having a mentor sign might be helpful. Shy people probably don't want too much attention given them in the beginning, but knowing there is someone specific available to ask for help could be reassuring without being overwhelming.

    Love the journal idea! 
    Posted 19 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For me, it's the beauty of  glitch. I'm amazed daily at how complex the world is, with a new challenge around every corner. Never boring and somehow relaxing while being challenging.If a virtual world has substance I expect to be overwhelmed at first. Glitch is a remarkable world. NO other site even comes close. Hats off to the creators, they have my support 100%. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Priscilla Parsley Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Constant pop-up messages are starting to get to me.  I like the idea of clicking on the Rock to find out what I need to know.  Maybe he could have an exclamation point or something so we know there is information available.  I miss a lot of things because pop-up messages interrupt what I am doing and I click through them to get rid of them.  I missed the FREE teleport to at least the first 3 projects I worked on because the message interrupted me and I did not want to stop and read a novel.

    I came late to Alpha, in March.  I was not sure what to do but just moved along and clicked on things so I discovered tree petting almost immediately.  I stopped to read every message because I was not sure if I would have access to the information later.  That did get a little tiresome and nothing I was told taught me how to get a home which was something I wanted right away.  I played about 3 tests before I learned what I needed to know to get a home yet I was given a number of messages regarding quests (none of which was "Buy a Home").
    Posted 19 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I kinda disagree.  I was new to Beta and so I am not sure how Glitch started before now.  To be honest I did just blow through the tutorial in order to start playing and exploring, but I do that for every game.  I've never been a big tutorial person, I like to figure everything out for myself.  Either way, I found that I was able to figure things out for myself.  I love quests as well, so that was not a problem for me.  I loved how quests gave me more of an opportunity to learn and to explore.  

    I guess with experience from Alpha testing Beta would feel overworked by comparison, but from the point of view of someone who started in Beta and is still fairly new (this past test was my 3rd test), the beginning was not overdone or overexplained and I still had plenty of opportunity to explore and discover for myself.

    EDIT:  I forgot to mention that the beginning really only explained how to move, and how to interact.  It only had me interact with a pig and tend/dig a patch from what I can remember.  The rest was left up to me.  So even for those people who do go through the full tutorial, the tutorial just gives the basics on how to move and interact with objects and use the map, and lets the player explore everything else for themselves.
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • love the feather in the cap idea!

    the quests realllllly slow down after, i don't know, level 10? when the skills start taking much longer, so that is one thing, but i guess that defeats the idea of overcrowding for new players. the other way of looking at it is that the quests help you learn the game (see below example- i wouldn't have known about houses without them!) and build up skills like cooking, mining, etc.

    @brib annie- i don't think it's *required to buy a home, but i learned from other players when i got that "grow 3 trees" quest, and they were very helpful to show me where, and some even donated money.  this is one benefit, at least for me, to the game being so complicated: the players help each other out.

    i will say, i wish it were more self contained. i get quite annoyed being sent to external links like the wiki, wherecanigetwhateveritis.com, and the various fansites. i'd much rather players pointed me to a real glitch.com site like the encyclopedia or a journal, or im me with help.  it would be great if the experience of the game were holistic. on the other hand, maybe this is the nature of mmo's and i'm just being snotty?
    Posted 19 months ago by greenkozi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @brib annie: I do agree about the houses.  I wanted a house right away and it was not clear how to get one.  I actually managed to figure it out without anyone's help during my second test (so proud of myself! lol), but I think perhaps a quest about how to get a house would be useful and fun.
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • After the last reset, greeters were added: we met new players in start streets, gave them gifts, explained some basics to them, answered their questions, etc.  Then the tutorial was changed to incorporate what greeters had been saying and doing, so we've had a vacation from greeting for the last few tests.

    I've seen the new tutorial, and watched the reactions to it fairly carefully.  It explains more than other tutorials did.  There are more items to look at, the mechanics of moving around in the game are explained a bit more, and there's certainly more to read.

    One problem is that people learn differently.  Some prefer to read, some prefer to be shown, and some prefer trial and error.  There's no way to truly please everyone in this sort of situation.  For example, I liked the sparse tutorial in alpha, discovering bits of the world on my own, and not knowing what I was going to find next.  I still find myself wishing for a game with more surprises.  Others are frustrated by a lack of instruction, are not interested in long periods of exploration, or do not want to read anything other than terse answers to specific questions.  Some loved being greeted by a real person, some ignored us completely, tons thought we were just clever AI... the lack of consistency was the only constant in greeting response.

    As for wardrobe and vanity: unless it has changed very recently, new players typically come into the world as one of four stock avatars, and never actually have to customize them at all.  Since it's completely optional and easy to do, and since credit sales will probably be the main source of income for the company, I don't see a problem with it.
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Riverwalker: I think you're right about the feather.  I've suggested several times that greeters wear some unique clothing, or that we have signs above our heads, or some other identifying mark.  It was much easier to identify staff when they wore black "STAFF" t-shirts, too.  The only problem seems to be that many greeters don't want limits to their clothing choices, but I think a little thought bubble above our heads, like the ones above trees and animals, would be a good solution.  Also, many people never use the Live Help channel; instead, they ask questions in Global Chat, which is a much more combative environment, so they are discouraged from asking questions.  Sometimes I send people IMs with more information, but they often don't see the messages for a long while, probably because that little blinking red sign is all the way in the corner of a busy screen.

    P.S.: Ariel, we're testers, and we're supposed to say what we think, good or bad, so no apologies needed.  We're supposed to test everything.  I've been a bit annoyed lately by a "be a fan above all else" attitude, which may feel warm and fuzzy, but does nothing to improve the game.  Speak up!
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @glum:  +1 about the speaking up.  You can be a fan, but having a problem with something is not a bad thing, it can help improve the game.
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • When I was an alpha player,I was so totaly lost and almost gave up this game for the difficulty in playing with no knowledge,then some wonderful folks took their time to tell me how it works.since then I have opened another account for hubby and found I loved the tutorial and helpful folks.this is truly a community game,you can help or go on playing without taking your time to help ,it is your choice.I think the Devs here are fabulous ,they listen and try to please everyone.And as for difficulty as a newbie.spread the love and help.
    Posted 19 months ago by Jellybelly Baby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Does a greeter have to be an avatar that keeps pace with the player?  Maybe it could be an IM window that looks like a speech bubble that follows the new player in local chat, but is just a tab for the greeter.  That way the new player can keep their eyes where they probably want to keep them, in the game interface, but the greeter (maybe mini-mentor is a better term) can still do other stuff but be there to answer questions for the new player.

    I don't know if that is actually possible though, sounds hard to implement.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't remember much about my first entrance into the game.  I seem to recall a few helpful things but for the most part I recall being on my own to explore.  I don't recall a Greeter.  I did ask for help in the Help Chat but was ignored.  There seemed to be a lot of chit-chat there and not much Help.  Later I got some tips that were helpful.  I think that the Devs may have expanded the Tutorial since I entered(?).  As the Game becomes more complicated it must be harder to be a New player so I suggest that we all be more observant of that and keep an eye out for pleas for Help in the Global Chat.
    Posted 19 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink