Topic

What Activities in Glitch are based on Gambling?

there is much about glitch that appeals to players in the same way that gambling appeals to gamblers.

that's a theory i've had for a while now but most recently i've been struck by the number of lotteries and dice games advertised in the forums, in global and through notes.

it is interesting that so many of the first attempts at generating player based activities are gambling related in one way or another. something to note for posterity.

so i want to create a master list of gambling like activities, both player generated and otherwise, of gambling driven activities in Glitch, or activities with a gambling-like addictive hook.

what i have so far..

1. Game Show Wheel [wheel of fortune]
2. Cubmimal Box [scratch and win]
3. Cubimal Racing [racetrack betting]
4. Gem Drops, Music Block Drops, Senor Funkypickle Random GNG box [slot machines]
5. Ajaya Type Random Mining Bonuses [random rock proximity while cycling, timing for bonuses]
6. Mining Generally [random rock availability, random *huge* quality]
7. The Rube [chicken]
8. Ancestral Lands [random pin availability, random pin prizes]
9. Rook Rolling [dice game]
10. Meditation Output [random, not really gambling in general use but moreso for the max relax quest]
11. Ghost Hunting Quest [random locations]
11. Player Created Lotteries [lotto]
12. Player Created Dice Games

the definition of gambling here is pretty broad, but the key is that there needs to be an element of randomness that either provides an addictive hook to keep trying, or hoping that you can beat the odds to win a big prize.

anything i'm missing?

Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • The Game Show Wheel doesn't really involve gambling, there is no stake, you simply get something for free without risking anything.
    Posted 14 months ago by victoriah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • the stake is time. you spend time and effort paying for the chance to get a ticket to get a chance to maybe win a cubimal box or maybe win a bean. there's an addictive hook of trying to get more tickets and more spins in the hopes of scoring the cubimal box.
    Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sounds like you're making a list of the use of a randomization algorithm. 

    Psych 101:  variable ratio intermittent reward schedules create longer response chains. 

    To call it "gambling" is to apply a fairly negative term to basic psychological principles.
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't donate for the chance to get a ticket. If I get one, yay! If not, oh well, the Giants are still pleased with my donation.
    Posted 14 months ago by Scarlett Beth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Reward centers in the brain is key.  And that would include socializing with others, the act of play in general, and belief in giants.
    Posted 14 months ago by snarkle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "To call it "gambling" is to apply a fairly negative term to basic psychological principles."

    if you want to call it "variable ratio intermittent reward schedules to create longer response chains" that's fine, we are talking about the same thing. i'll shorten it to gambling.

    it isn't a list of the use of the randomization algorithm though. there are player generated examples as well as examples where the randomness is generated through complex player interaction, like whether or not there is sparkly in a cave isn't random by way of algorithm, but it is effectively random given the relative unpredictability of mining patterns.

    all serve to generate the addictive hook that creates the 'longer response chains'.
    Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I don't donate for the chance to get a ticket. If I get one, yay! If not, oh well, the Giants are still pleased with my donation."

    then it is like those "magic can" promotions that beer companies have? or maybe more like the "check under the cap" promotions that soda companies have?
    Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ooh ;)

    VR (intermittent, but I'm not 100% sure what this adds to VR) reinforcement is referring to a very general concept.  iirc, there's like maybe 4-5 major types of reinforcement schedule, or fewer if you're going with the intermittent vs continuous distinction.  i wouldn't go so far as to say that every VR or variable-and-intermittent schedule is a type of gambling, that would be very much overgeneralising - and what I think Windborn is pointing out.  otherwise then you could include things like 'i'll cook a new dish every day in the hopes that I'll find one that my kids will love,' 'I'll study hard and maybe I'll pass this exam,' or even 'I'll try playing Glitch, maybe I'll like it' as being a form of gambling.

    while i don't disagree gambling involves an intermittent reinforcement schedule I'd be more inclined to say it's an example rather than a synonym. 

    that said, (also in the spirit of psych 101) some people might disagree on the comparison of gambling because for them, actual gambling in a casino/home situation involving real money may be a real concern and personal issue that they and their families have struggled with.  calling all and sundry 'gambling' might seem to be minimising their very real problems, as if it's "easy enough to get over."
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "VR (intermittent, but I'm not sure what this adds) reinforcement is referring to a very general concept.  iirc, there's like maybe 4-5 major (i do mean major! as in, as major as 'VR' refers to) types of reinforcement schedule.  i wouldn't go so far as to say that in every 4/5 reinforcement schedules is a type of gambling."

    it might add something to the discussion if you listed the types.

    "otherwise then you could include things like 'i'll cook a new dish every day in the hopes that I'll find one that my kids will love,' 'I'll study hard and maybe I'll pass this exam,' or even 'I'll try playing Glitch' as being a form of gambling."

    the first two aren't very random though. the outcome is not totally predictable, sure, but a very large portion of the outcome is based on skill and creativity moreso than chance.

    some of the listed game elements up top rely on .. who am i kidding, none of them really require any skill at all other than patience, which in the context of Glitch is primarily generated by a susceptibility to variable reinforcement.
    Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One could easily argue that playing the Auctions market is a form of gambling...
    Posted 14 months ago by Grem Sketch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Did you really want the types?  I'm not sure why you think they will add to the discussion.  it's rather technical and dreary - i personally hated psych 211 :P

    VR - variable ratio
    VI - variable interval
    FI - fixed interval
    FR - fixed ratio

    striatic, I thought you were arguing that you weren't just looking for random chance?  the issue is 'is this a form of gambling' not 'is this determined randomly'.  edit: even in your opening post you merely mentioned 'an element of randomness' was all that was required.

    edit 2: i must confess, i have absolutely no idea what you mean by 'a susceptibility to variable reinforcement.'  can you clarify?
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @grem sketch, using the OP's definition of gambling, well, yes, nearly anything could be a form of gambling!  which is why i don't think the definition is right and a lot of what has been listed is really just unpredictably, if not randomly, generated rewards rather than strictly gambling...

    edit: though you have a point ;)
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "striatic, I thought you were arguing that you weren't just looking for random chance?  the issue is 'is this a form of gambling' not 'is this determined randomly'.  edit: even in your opening post you merely mentioned 'an element of randomness' was all that was required."

    that isn't all that is required .. i said .. "an element of randomness that either provides an addictive hook to keep trying, or hoping that you can beat the odds to win a big prize."

    it needs an addictive hook that drives compulsion.

    for example, i also said that something like meditation, which is somewhat random, isn't really gambling in general use. if you keep hitting it over and over in order to complete the quest that requires maximum meditation length [ie. the jackpot], then it becomes gambling-like.

    "using the OP's definition of gambling, well, yes, nearly anything could be a form of gambling!"

    please.

    "i have absolutely no idea what you mean by 'a susceptibility to variable reinforcement.'  can you clarify?"

    yes. to use windborn's terminology, some people are more prone to form longer respond chains in reaction to variable reinforcement than other people are. if you get a bigger 'hit' out of the random reward, the more likely you are to keep going for the next one.
    Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • anything that you enjoy doing will have a stronger "addictive hook" if the rewards are randomly given.   In your OP, you essentially defined gambling as anything with a reward that is random. 
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "anything that you enjoy doing will have a stronger "addictive hook" if the rewards are randomly given.   In your OP, you essentially defined gambling as anything with a reward that is random."

    no. again take meditation as an example. with meditate the randomness provides a wrinkle in an otherwise fairly predictable and banal means of generating energy. there's no thrill-of-the-chase to get 60e from meditating instead of 40e, though there may well be if you pick the one street instead of another and hitting 4 un-mined sparkly rocks instead of a cleared out area.

    or, from real life, take weather. it is essentially a random reward but there's little way to act on a desire for good weather other than to wait until the next day, which is something you have to do anyway.
    Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • in the game, take the ancestral lands as an example.

    if i pick a certain path, i'm betting that it will be the one without cleared out pins.

    if i pick the wrong path, i lose my bet and am out 15 [or whatever] minutes of running around.

    if i pick the right path, i win my bet and my 15 minutes is converted into a substantial reward of gems, drinks, powders, whatever.

    there is a spectrum of activities with random rewards and i suppose how much like gambling they are hinges on the variation between failure and success, and the cost paid when there is failure. mining is something that is somewhat variable. the situation is similar to that in the ancestral lands except the chances of your chosen path being totally cleared out of everything remote, so it isn't much of a gamble. the exception might be a dead-end level like Janagi Elations where you take a leap of faith [or eyeball of faith] that you're going to find something down there. if you don't, you've either got to haul yourself all the way back up, or sit around and wait. or buying or waiting out a key to ajaya bliss, making a bet that when you use it, going in blind, the number of miners will be in the sweet spot to make mining there worthwhile.
    Posted 14 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 'please.'?  what does that mean?  i mean really, i am stumped...  i have no idea what to say to that.  is it a meaningful argument or something that I am supposed to respond to?

    fun discussion?

    oh well, xkcd.com/386.
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "there's no thrill-of-the-chase to get 60e from meditating instead of 40e,"
    Um, speak for yourself, I f'n love it when I hit a high number in meditating, and am disappointed with the buzzer sound.
    Posted 14 months ago by snarkle Subscriber! | Permalink