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#### Change in auction timing -- thoughts?

So, was trying to rack up some favor really quickly to speed up learning, bought some WBD's and realized that -- all of a sudden -- it takes MUCH longer to get your auction purchase! About 10 minutes in RL time. This is bothersome and I'm not sure why it was implemented...
I really love almost all of the changes that have occurred, and even if I don't love something I assume there's a reason it happened. But this one is super annoying. If it (as was suggested in live help) is meant to promote person-to-person trading -- well, that's just silly! What are the chances that I will find a person that minute -- who happens to be carrying what I need -- and is willing to trade it? Lets be honest, most of us don't carry our inventory around with us these days. And if I wanted to sell it, I would put it on auction -- not carry it around waiting for someone to ask me for it!
OK, rant's over. Any thoughts? Is this bothering anyone else? Does anyone know the reason why this change happened, or does anyone think it's awesome and want to tell me why? I'm flexible, I can be swayed :-)

Posted 8 months ago by Clarabelle | Permalink

### Replies

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- Not to mention the nightmare of having to listen to everyone on global - " I need xxxx, someone please trade with me"
  Plus not everyone is hoarding the same things and like Clara said to try and find someone with what you need and then to have to BOTH stop what your doing and at least one of you tp to the other..... yeah this is looking like a pain
  Posted 8 months ago by BlackWolf | Permalink
- - sorry, my redundant reply is redundant -
  Posted 8 months ago by Carl Projectorinski | Permalink
- BlackWolf wrote: and at least one of you tp to the other.
  No, meet at one of your slash homes. No tp'ing required at all
  Although I agree it is a bit of a pain, I also agree with TS that more Glitch to Glitch trading and less auction buying and even less vendor dealing is needed
  Posted 8 months ago by IrenicRhonda | Permalink
- Ha -- that's funny, Carl -- I was about to reply to you when you edited! I didn't think it was redundant, I thought it was interesting :)
  Posted 8 months ago by Clarabelle | Permalink
- It is reallllyyy annoying.
  My example today:
  I was in the auction house and bought some stuff. However, I decided to try to make my own EHSP instead of buying it from the AH. My element stockpile turned up short, so I turned to global to get some sparkly and green elements. My froggy came before I was able to get the elements through trading. So, trading is still a lot slower than the AH, at least in this example.
  Posted 8 months ago by Isabelle the Pug | Permalink
- I also agree with TS that more Glitch to Glitch trading and less auction buying and even less vendor dealing is needed
  Irenic -- do you mind telling me why you think it is needed? It just seems like a pain to me! I agree about vendors, but I can't see any problem with auctions... they are already player-driven and very convenient for everyone. I don't want to have to hunt for someone who has what I need every time I need something...
  Posted 8 months ago by Clarabelle | Permalink
- I really dislike the wait time.
  Posted 8 months ago by Jessenya | Permalink
- It's most frustrating when you're trying to get something before the end of the game day for example. Just out of curiousity, what is the reason that it's been set to slow for deliveries?
  Posted 8 months ago by Vialdana | Permalink
- I loathe the new wait time. Also depending on my mood sometimes I will just play in the auctions rather than venture into Glitchland. Hope they don't try to wean the auction out all together. It's another aspect of the game that keeps it interesting and I'm sure keeps many players coming back : )
  Posted 8 months ago by ~Arabesque~ | Permalink
- I don't think any wait time is justifiable! if you can buy things instantly from a vendor, and you have to wait for an auction purchase, what is the motivation to use the auction house?
  Remember, 10 minutes IRL is an hour in the game!
  Posted 8 months ago by Jewel Stoned | Permalink
- I honestly just don't really understand why it was done.
  If the auction functionality was changed in conjunction with making player to player trading funcitonality easier (like when they tested the local chat advertising function) then I might be able to see it.
  Perhaps something is coming up soon inside the game world that will explain the change to auction timing, but right now.... I just don't get the change.
  Also IrenicRhonda suggested meeting at the /home street of one of the players; but that is easier said than done... one player would need to friend the other and then adjust their signpost just to make that one meetup happen; it's not terribly complicated but almost as hard as meeting at a common street somewhere in UR...
  Posted 8 months ago by Sparkly Vampire | Permalink
- are the Frogs to busy doing yoga ?
  Posted 8 months ago by ニ | Permalink
- My middle name is not Patience.. I find it very frustrating :(
  Posted 8 months ago by Joni Mitchell | Permalink
- I think the idea is our home streets will have a little shop where you sell stuff yourself so people can come by and pick it up. Still nerfing the auctions for now is not supportive of current structures. Oh and I'd vote for extended auction life too, listing for 2 days not 1
  Being in a slightly quieter time zone means auctions are better than player to player contact, plus are they rally sure someone has something I want just then.
  Posted 8 months ago by jiva | Permalink
- Remember: Auction House and Vendors will eventually (probably soon) be taken away and replaced player owned store-fronts. Let's not be too quick to hate these changes - it's Beta - and everyone would be rather bored if nothing in this game ever changed.
  Change is scary, but it can be good. 10 minutes isn't a big deal.
  Posted 8 months ago by La Mariposa | Permalink
- Merth, staff have never said that the auction house and vendors will be totally taken away, much less saying that it will be soon.
  They've talked about moving to a more player-based economy, but the exact implementation of that has not even be suggested by anyone who works for Tiny Speck.
  What they've done so far are tweaks that add incentives to making players engage with each other more, and vendors less. And just in the past 24 hours they've added MORE items that can be auctioned, while making it less effective to sell and buy from vendors.
  So there's nothing to "remember". Staff haven't said that, and they are making changes that enhance what you can get from auctions.
  Posted 8 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- Funniest thing is, it's less effective, yeah, but I've found myself selling more and more to the vendors. Why? I can TP or /leave to Cebarkul in a moment, get a portion of what I'd get normally, or I can put it in auction and hope someone buys it. Same thing with buying stuff, I'm more likely to use glitchremote to find the appropriate vendor than to use AH purely because it takes forever. buying from other people takes even longer, though, so I'm disinclined to do so.
  Posted 8 months ago by Lady Cailia | Permalink
- Auctioning should be made more convenient, not less. It's been a silly move on TS's part, and I do not understand why it was done at all.
  Posted 8 months ago by Tibbi | Permalink
- Just saw another post suggesting that this change was made to "promote more person-to-person trading."
  I just gotta say, if anyone from TS is reading -- I think this is a really bad idea. I will trade person to person if and when it is convenient, and if and when I can find someone who has what I need in a timely fashion. Otherwise I want to be able to use the auction house without being penalized. And the 10-minute wait time feels like a penalty.
  And I personally don't like being hit up by people to sell them stuff - nor do I like being a salesperson. I will happily gift if I have whatever it is handy, but I'm a bit of a hermit and don't want to have to hawk my wares :-)
  Posted 8 months ago by Clarabelle | Permalink
- I don't get this change at all either. As others have said it would make more sense if done in conjunction with changes that make player to player trading easier. At present it's next to impossible as far as I'm concerned. I've tried trading via global chat - hopeless. Once an unknown glitch opened a trade window on me as I was passing through a street which was frankly a little alarming. Also, as a UK player I frequently find myself roaming virtually empty parts of Ur. The changes to the vendors and auctions have had no impact on my buying & selling as there really is no viable alternative.
  Also - I mainly sell music boxes to the tool vendor. Until there are a lot more lower level players there's not much else you can do with them - anyway I think many prefer to collect them themselves and as they don't stack they aren't suitable for large donations. When we can't sell them to vendors they'll just be littering the streets!
  Posted 8 months ago by geekybird | Permalink
- I like that the vendors exist as sort of a "base value" so that auction prices don't get so far out of hand and people don't have to settle for selling things for less than the effort it took to produce them. When herbs suddenly became valuable with the advent of tincturing, if flowers had been available at vendors - as crops always were - then more folks would have been able to take part in the whole potioning shebang without spending themselves into oblivion. (I'm not an economist though, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm misunderstanding the process.)
  Posted 8 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- I have to agree with the general sentiment on this.
  Also, in general, feeling like you have to "force" players to do something differently probably indicates a misunderstanding. It would be better to provide alternate ways for people to trade and see what works, rather than making the existing ways we have less convenient.
  How about allowing people to set up a bazaar with signs advertising what they want to sell or buy? Lots of games let you set up shops and can even handle simple trades while you're AFK.
  Posted 8 months ago by Janitch | Permalink
- I like the idea of trading with others instead of auctioning. There could be organized trading parties like the idea above, or just parties to help people getting the trading achievements. On the other hand, I tend not to do much auctioning anyway, so it doesn't really effect me. If I did, I'm sure I'd be a bit miffed about the longer times, too.
  Posted 8 months ago by Cloudie | Permalink
- Force vs. encourage. Semantics.
  If is a fact, and a somewhat sad one), that people will use the most perceived advantageous action and beat it to death. This is why players will grind out at any action if they thing it is the most cost effective/efficient... even if said action isn't actually bring them joy. Many a game dies because of an imbalance like this.
  Whether or not a 10 minute time length on auctions is one of these or not is up to debate.
  But a few thoughts & questions:
  If 3 minutes is better than 10 minutes, would not instantaneous be better than 3? How would instantaneous auctions change game play?
  Does it feel long because you are used to 3 minutes? If it had always be 10 minutes, would it bother you?
  With the new housing, the ability to be self-suffiecient will be much greater (even if it take much imagination to built up to the levels we have during the testing. Short auction time potentially just encourage staying at home.
  Think of it not as just encouraging trading... but think of it has (potentially) encouraging other forms of player-to-player sales that have to been introduced yet. They have discussed player run vendors/store fronts. This is on the drawing board.
  Personally, it has bothered me that there is no in-game reasoning/explanation for how we interact with the Auction House. (Or the fact it isn't an auction house.)
  Things I would mind seeing instituted:
  - A fee (somewhat large) for express delivery.
  - Increasing the time items stay on auction to 3 to four days. With the current fees and longer delivery times, the 24-hour limit makes less sense. (But keep the 100 item limit.)
  Posted 8 months ago by Lord Bacon-o | Permalink
- +1 LBO!
  Posted 8 months ago by starrkittyface | Permalink
- Oddly, what this does is favor vendors over auction sellers, which is the reverse of the stated goal of getting players to buy and sell with each other. Previously you would buy at auction in order to receive the item without having to trek out to some vendor. Hooch, for example. Now there is less and less reason for any price differential between vendor and player sold items. Items not available from a vendor are not penalized as much, but they usually aren't as time sensitive.
  I would hope that vendors are cut back.
  I also hope for a street in each region that could host a "mega automat", similar to the front-yard automat idea I floated elsewhere. A collection of SDB like units each of which can be filled with one type of item and assigned a sales price. A mega-market would be a great place to meet other glitches, much like (I'm told) the supermarket already is.
  Posted 8 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- I've not liked the auctions since the frogs were introduced (no offense to whomever came up with the frog idea) and it use to be one of the things I found the most fun to play in. I always had my nose stuck in the auctions.
  I always enjoyed having the instant delivery from the auctions - directly into your inventory - when we had it.
  Delivery for player to player (express delivery as LBo called it) would have been ok using the frogs since you're not always close to a mailbox.
  But, as the auctions stand now...well, just another fun part of the game that has been nerfed to death and has lost any fun that it use to have for me :(
  Posted 8 months ago by sgjo | Permalink
- I agree with most of the sentiments expressed in this thread. I understand the motivation to make the game more complex and challenging for players, but there comes a point where things get too challenging. This is a game, after all. We play for fun, and if something is too impossible, then it isn't fun.
  There are also those who would say that this change is good because it makes the game more social ( "It is a social MMO, after all..." ), but to that I say that there are many different ways to be social in this game. Personally, I prefer being social for fun (e.g. parties, races, GoC) rather than being social during my daily grind. There are some thing you just need to get done during a game day (donating, gardening, etc...), and I prefer just to get those things over with without having to fuss around with trading.
  ETA tl;dr - I think increasing auction house delivery times was a mistake. Trading isn't necessarily the best way to make the game more social, but still fun for players.
  Posted 8 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink
- I'd like to see the in-game auction house implemented. IMO it would be lots more fun to go into the world to check on my auctions and retrieve my goods when I'm there. There's an anticipation akin to getting a letter in the mail when you check in to see if your goods have sold. Getting a notice flashed on the screen that "so and so" has bought my "such and such" just isn't very exciting. If there were auction houses in every area it would still be convenient to get to and it gets you out of your hobbit hole. Express delivery could still be an option for a small fee for those times when "fast" is important. I really don't like the forced slow delivery.
  The way to get more people to trade directly is to have specialized items that are sought after and rare or of exceptional quality. Once you see someones goods regularly in the auctions, you realize they are specializing in that item and contacting them personally is a logical step. And voila, a new contact is made.
  Posted 8 months ago by Riverwalker | Permalink
- I really like your ideas here, Riverwalker! In-game auctions houses would be more fun, and might become cool gathering spots without "forcing" person-to-person sales :)
  Posted 8 months ago by Clarabelle | Permalink
- My two currants:
  1) I think if the impetus behind the change is to cut out auction scripting/market manipulation, that's fine, except for the fact that I do not think that resource arbitrage is all that profitable unless you are doing it on a Hoodjack-style scale, where millions of currants are impacting the market all at once.
  2) I would be curious to see if the 10 minute delay is working, if that was the goal.
  3) For incidental poisoning, the one reason I go to market with an emergency on my hands, the 10 minute thing is a bit sucky.
  4) For all other purposes, I have no real issue.
  5) I, too, would be curious to see what behaviours TS is trying to arrest or enhance. If anyone has seen any posts on this topic that I have missed, please load them into the thread. I do try to keep up, but I'm far from perfectly informed.
  Posted 8 months ago by CrashTestPilot | Permalink
- I really dislike the waiting. If I'm at home crafting shrine powder and run out of a resource, I would hit the auction house and get whatever I needed in a minute or two. Now what am I supposed to do? My options are:
  1) wait 10 RL minutes even though I wanted to finish up what I was crafting and move on
  2) drop my project, and go grind for resources somewhere
  3) Use up a lot of energy and possibly map teleports IF I am lucky enough to find someone who has what I need and is willing to trade or sell it
  4) log out of Glitch and go find something better to do...
  Posted 8 months ago by Lucille Ball | Permalink
- +1
  * I've made friends from people I've traded with over AH. It is not nameless/faceless.
  * Improve the AH with a "want to buy ___ at ___"
  * 10 minutes is a long time when you play in short spurts and suddenly find yourself short an item.
  * Please revert the 10 penalty until whatever changes are made!
  Nerfing AH with no other improvement isn't really helpful to "easing" us into the changes
  Unless you are easing us into getting used to making/harvesting ourselves instead of spamming global and/or running around looking for "just the right" player made vendor for an hour.
  Posted 8 months ago by M<3tra, obviously | Permalink
- Damn, I thought there was a bug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIU0ErUumtk
  (Not being serious)
  Hoodjack's out of business because Utopia's inactiveness, I think.
  Posted 8 months ago by Rook | Permalink
- Well, tomorrow is Monday, and what I would REALLY like is for Stoot to crawl out and actually tell us why he thinks this is a good thing. I do NOT need any more fanboy "great things are coming, just keep your mouth shut and smile" attitude from other posters in the meantime. K?
  Posted 8 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- lol, funny if you get an IM from certain people.
  Posted 8 months ago by Rook | Permalink
- I don't really use the auctions (I'd rather just make what I want, since there's not much else to do), but I'm with you guys on this one: waiting ten minutes for a purchase seems like a bizarre nerfing of a feature which was already nerfed once before. Hopefully someone will explain the rationale.
  Posted 8 months ago by glum pudding | Permalink
- Great things are coming, just keep your mouth shut and smile.
  Posted 8 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
- Ahhhhh!!!!
  Posted 8 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- Er … whoops. I don't think you have to worry too much about fanboy attitude on this topic, WalruZ. The dislike is pretty much universal :)
  What LBO said above is right though. Right now, no one grumbles that "this game is so stupid because you can only harvest a tree twice per game day". And they don't say that because the game has always worked that way.
  It's just when something changes from what it used to be that it feels wrong. If the auction delivery time used to be an hour, you'd think this was the greatest thing we'd ever done.
  The rationale is this: we believe the game is less interesting if any item you want can be obtained instantly, no matter where you are in the world. So, we are moving further from that. It isn't necessarily to encourage p2p trading (it will be a while before that is ready anyway).
  We did it now because it seems better to make the changes in steps so people can get used to it (the delivery time is likely to get even longer; but we are also likely to add a "expedited delivery" option on the buyer's side). Next change to the auctions will be the elimination of commissions and an increase in listing fees (so, only one fee … but more risk to the seller if they price too high).
  Posted 8 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
- It won't be like this, so no worries. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo
  Posted 8 months ago by Rook | Permalink
- Willing customer for expedited delivery here, but that's easy for me to say. Could this be harsh for new players?.. Maybe the cost will be relative to your (accumulated) imagination? I agree wholeheartedly with the elimination of commissions and increase in listing fees.. more balance there.
  Posted 8 months ago by Joni Mitchell | Permalink
- Personally, I prefer the auctions. I have been approached by players about selling direct to them rather than paying the fees in auction. I CHOOSE to sell in auction. It's much easier for me. As was said..I don't carry around the items I am selling.
  "It isn't necessarily to encourage p2p trading (it will be a while before that is ready anyway)." as stoot said. hopefully this is a loooong way off. How will other players know what we have for sale? Will we place an ad? How will we know what other players are selling? I guess that's something that will be worked out before it is introduced in the game.
  I don't mind paying a higher listing fee. My bad if I list items too high and they don't sell.
  I also don't mind waiting for an item. Recently I haven't had to purchase something from auction that I really need right this instant. When I do purchase, I remember the players from past that have waited 1/2 hour for them to receive something, although that has not been the norm. I'm sure the frog just got lost on the way and the item turned up in the mailbox when they refreshed.
  Now that we are aware of the longer waiting time: Plan for it!! You know you will want such and such before end of day. Get it earlier so you will have it!!
  I guess part of what I'm saying is generally people have become used to the concept of "instant gratification", fortunately this is a game and it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.
  Posted 8 months ago by KinOfWolf~♥ | Permalink
- It's possible that it wouldn't be harsh on the new players for the following reasons:
  -Generosity from other glitchen to get them on their feet
  -They never had an instant delivery experience, so they can't really miss it, but if they come from other games, they might feel the drag... more topics in the ideas forums may take place, I don't know.
  It can be harsh, but with what will be kneaded into the game, that might be the least of their concerns.
  +1 KoW
  Also, as an auction sniper, it got annoying to adjust my inventory, delete mail, etc, will having the damn frog chasing me.
  Posted 8 months ago by Rook | Permalink
- Points well taken Rook..
  Posted 8 months ago by Joni Mitchell | Permalink
- @stoot said, "we believe the game is less interesting if any item you want can be obtained instantly, no matter where you are in the world."
  I'm curious how that philosophy aligns with other recent changes in the game, specifically: allowing us to grow both kinds of crops and plant any kind of tree in every type of home street.
  The game was more interesting to me when we had to choose the ecosystem where we wanted to live, and then deal with the attendant constraints. It's the constraints that make things interesting, which TS seems to recognize (per Stoot's comment); and yet they went in the opposite direction re planting trees/crops.
  (I'm not complaining; I just think it's ....um, well, interesting.)
  Posted 8 months ago by Joscor So | Permalink
- I have mixed feelings about that, Joscor So … but all the housing stuff is brand new and there is still so much more to do just on the basics that building in a bunch of logic to support those kinds of constraints is not in the cards right now. It will be interesting to see what happens!
  As for new players: it usually takes a long while before they notice the auctions at all.
  Posted 8 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
- Yes I too liked the constraint of having to choose between herb growing and egg trees and crops and most of the other types of trees. If you can be self sufficient in everything then there is no game to play
  But, everything now has a lifespan. We don't yet know the cost of renewing as during the test these are not the costs they are going to be. I think this may the constraint that is needed. You may decide that the cost of maintaining everything, or one particular resource, is not worth your while. Or you may decide it is. Those choices will(may) become the new constraints.
  We are in beta and most of us are starting this new housing at a fairly high level, and relatively rich in currants and hoarded resource. But new players won't have that and those choices will be vital to them.
  The one thing I'm glad I experienced before the new housing, is the excitement I had when I had saved enough to buy my first house (just 3500 currants!). New players will never have that. Perhaps they will get the same thrill from their first expansion?
  Posted 8 months ago by IrenicRhonda | Permalink
- I have only very rarely used the auctions, and I still don't see that changing with the changes currently under discussion. The last few auctions that I tried to sell came back after the time limit, even though I priced them low, so they ended up costing me money. If I can't sell to vendors in later updates, I expect that it will become frustratingly hard to get any currants.
  I will almost always harvest or craft something rather than buy it. At this point, I have the skills to provide almost anything I need on my own. I know that MMO's are supposed to be more interdependent, but since most of the fun of the game is currently gathering and crafting, and specializing isn't encouraged by the mechanics, I just do most things myself.
  Posted 8 months ago by KhaKhonsu | Permalink
- I've been playing for less than 5 months and am pretty much out of things to do, so maybe I am just not the type of player this is geared towards. Is there a big demographic of players who enjoy twiddling their thumbs for 10 minutes?
  I agree that having something in game take work and time is usually a positive thing. It is why people like their e-peen, their badges, their pixelated rewards. However, implying that the "Wow, that took some effort!" game logic applies to shopping is just silly.
  There are no scarce resources in this game, everything is very easily attainable. Adding a long real world wait time is simply annoying, it doesn't actually make anything hard to get.
  I have no idea why I decided to reply to this, it is a fairly meaningless change. Perhaps it was because the change came without notice and I spent 10 minutes refreshing, thinking there was a bug with the auctions.
  Posted 8 months ago by scullyangel | Permalink

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