Topic

Adding a Skill Queue

I'd like to see a skill queue added or the skill queue app's ability disabled.  Right now, people who can leave their computer's open have an advantage when it comes to skills, since they can advance quickly in skills, while those who don't have the ability to leave a computer open constantly are stuck learning skills at a much slower rate.

Posted 19 months ago by Wessles Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • That's not true.

    As long as you are learning a skill when you shut down your computer, you will continue learning it. 

    Many of us take advantage of this when learning very long skills.  We switch to a multi-day skill just as the game is closing.  Our Glitch continues to learn that skill even when our computers are off and the game is down.  

    The only thing the app lets you do is start a new skill IF a) the game is open when you finish learning the old skill AND IF b) your browser is running when you finish learning the old skill.

    I'm not sure what "advantage" anyone gets from learning a skill.  We all choose different skill sets, different orders for learning the skills, and different speeds for learning based on our donations and giant favor that we earn. 

    Learning faster doesn't give you any game advantage. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Part of the game is learning new skills.  Advancement in the game comes from new skills...  Not necessarily in terms of level but definitely in terms of what all you can do in game.  Knowing more skills is definitely an advantage, and therefore a tool that only some can take full advantage of seems to me to be a bit of an advantage.
    Posted 19 months ago by Wessles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've spent all of my time in this game without one until this morning. I have few still to learn but I didn't complain about other players getting one just because I'm not good with the technicalities of computers. 
    Everyone has the chance to use the same ones that are listed in the forums or not, yourself included. I'm grateful to those that posted them and the person that helped me to get it working.
    Posted 19 months ago by Leithwyn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • People who are playing this game have a wide variety of technology available to them.  There is no way that the game can be attractive to a wide audience if it is limited to the lowest available technology. 

    Some people can't play this game at all because their software doesn't support the latest version of Flash.  Should the game be closed because it's not fair that those people can't play? 

    Right now, people who have DSL connections have an advantage over those who use dial-up.  Is the game supposed to be throttled down so that the people who don't have DSL are only allowed to move at the pace of those who use dial-up? 

    For whatever reason, some people can't leave their computers running when they walk away from the keyboard.  Is the game supposed to cut off access for everyone else because these people have to turn off their computers?
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I know several people are working on skill queue services using the API that will implement this for you.

    I also know that there are mechanisms in the game to enable a skill queue, but I don't know if the devs plan to make it available to us.
    Posted 19 months ago by Taral Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Dave & ping & Lord Tweedmouth developed a skills queue using a Greasemonkey script. It works beautifully. Just remember that the queue only works when the game is open. It doesn't matter whether or not your computer is running or shut down. They also wrote scripts for locations you have visited and for achievements you have done. They work beautifully! The topic can be found under forums/general Greasemonkey Scripts.

    And if I could get them up and running, anyone can! LOL

    beta.glitch.com/forum/gener...
    Posted 19 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WindBorn, this is a completely different issue.  The devs can add a skill queue to the game so that every character is always working on a skill, assuming the player has something in their queue.  They can't make a player's connection any faster.

    It just seems silly to me to be rewarded for leaving your computer open.  It's one thing if you have an advantage because of your computer while playing, but with skills it's simply a matter of whether or not you can leave the page open, and with something so easy to implement for everyone rather than just those who don't mind running up their electric bill, I don't see why it shouldn't be added as a game mechanism.
    Posted 19 months ago by Wessles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You don't  have to leave your computer open to learn. Once a skill is started it continues while your computer is off and the game is closed. All you have to do is set the rock to learn and it continues to learn until the skill is completed. No electricity costs incurred by any of us skill queue or  not.
    Posted 19 months ago by Leithwyn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With a Greasemonkey script, you can create a queue of skills -- so that when one skill finishes learning, another skill begins, but only if your computer is open (assuming the game is open at the time).
    Posted 19 months ago by Wessles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If that is actually correct then why the complaint? The Greasemonkey script is there in the forums available for you to use too. If I can use it anyone can, I don 't leave my computer on 24/7 even when the game is open and I have had no problems with learning. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Leithwyn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Palomides
    Colour me puzzled. If the skill queue was an iPhone app, would you feel the same since this would deprive people who can't afford / dislike iPhones?

    I'm sorry if you think I'm rude, but this sounds like a I-can't-have-it-so-can't-you-neener-neener.

    Disclosure: I wrote the skill queuer script. I don't own an iPhone.
    Posted 18 months ago by ping Subscriber! | Permalink
  • -.-  This conversation has been thoroughly ridiculous, since you all clearly are approaching this from a "NO DON'T TAKE IT AWAY" stance.

    Adding a skill queue in game would give everyone the same ability that those who can just leave their computers running who use the skill queuer script.  I'm not upset that I can't use it -- I can and I do.  I'm a college student in a dorm, I don't pay my electric bill, I can leave my laptop open all day, and usually do.

    My point is, if skill queuing is an option for me, why shouldn't it be for everyone?  Why not just add a skill queue in game that runs even when you aren't playing / don't have the web page open?

    Geez, you people are so freaking touchy.  And here I thought this was a fun community.

    Also, the iPhone thing is a completely different situation as well.  If it were an iPhone App, it would almost certainly have to be published by the devs, not a 3rd party script.  Providing benefits for using first party software is completely sensible.
    Posted 18 months ago by Wessles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The iPhone thing is no different, 3rd parties can certainly develop a skill queue app once the API matures. That's what an API does, allow 3rd parties to develop utilities/apps that the game devs are not interested in.
    Posted 18 months ago by ping Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Palomides

    You are the person who suggested taking away the feature:
    or the skill queue app's ability disabled.

    One of the benefits of having an API is that it frees the developers to work on stuff that is important for every user.  Things that are useful to a subset of users are then left to 3rd party developers, who can craft an app that meets the needs of a niche market. 

    Any site that chooses to make an API available is, in essence, saying "we aren't going to try to make this site be all things to all people, but we're willing to let other people add awesomeness". 

    Your request that the API be disabled and that the devs be the people who develop the software is not the direction TS has chosen to go.  They keep adding features to the API so that more and more cool stuff can be developed by outsiders. 

    Glitch is going to have more and more apps that are only useable by a subset of players.  Requesting that the site move backward to a situation where the only features available are 100% accessible to any player is a misunderstanding of the philosophy of developing an API in the first place. 
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am generally against a Skills queue- i think it cheapens the game experience; making it too easy. Possibly have a "Next skill" where the user can select only one follow up skill, but i would go no further.
    Posted 18 months ago by F1re Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fire, 

    You do understand that Glitch already has a feature that allows outside developers to create a skills-queue app, right?

    Are you suggesting that that be disabled (as Palomides is) or that it be kept as an API feature only and not added inside the game?
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • silly double post
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Taking away the feature is certainly the best alternative to simply adding a skill queue to the game itself -- an idea you have yet to address, which still puzzles me.  Do you or do you not think that a skill queue available to all users, developed by TS and not requiring you to leave the website open, would be a good idea?

    I haven't asked that the entire API be disabled.  You are completely misrepresenting what I said.  As an alternative to adding a skill queue to the game itself that runs constantly for everyone, I would certainly like to see the feature within the API that allows queuing skills disabled.  Not the entire thing.
    Posted 18 months ago by Wessles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @WindBorn
    for Beta this is fine- it allows users to quickly scale the skill tree and access many more aspects of game play.

    but i would argue against the skill queue; for a different reason than Palomides. Quality of game play/ sense of achievement-
     Let me ask you this, why not just give everyone all skills after 2 weeks of game-play? This would defeat the purpose of even having a skill tree of course.
    i feel skills should be earned, this means interacting with Glitch- checking up, etc.

    Another possibilities are
    1) Making skill times so ridiculously long that it is an achievement in patience getting skills (not recommended)
    2) Combining achievements(actions) to learned skills(research) to complete skills. Example: to learn skill "XYZ"  a user must research the XYZ skill, but also must achieve 3 tasks- mine 100whatever, etc, etc. this way the user can queue skills and research ahead of time,but to actually get the benefit they must accomplish the tasks as well.

    Again- i don't really care if there is a skill queue- my concern is the sense of achievement in playing the game.
    Posted 18 months ago by F1re Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Palomides

    I think that taking away the skill queuing feature in the API is a bad idea.

    If that were something that the devs had very high on their priority list, it wouldn't be one of the few features added to the API.  The API is under development, and we can expect more and more features to be enabled via the API. 

    If the devs choose to add it to the API this early, it is doubtful that it is a high-priority feature in game.  Rather than wait years to see if it ever moves to the top of the list, I'm glad that they've opened it up in the API for others to develop. 

    So, instead of disabling it for everyone, I want it left as it is:  part of the API to be developed or not as 3rd party folks have the interest and energy. 

    If you want everyone to have a level playing field, then the API would have to be disabled entirely.  Having an API means that some people will be able to use the apps developed by 3rd parties and others won't. 

    @Fire

    Not sure I understand your objection.  No one is required to use the skill queue.  No one is even required to learn a skill.  There is no suggestion that everyone wants to know every skill. 

    This is just a tool that allows some players to play the game the way they want:  maximizing skills in the fastest possible way.  Not everyone will want to do that. 

    This is not a competitive game.  Some people want to make it competitive, so they measure their success by how many skills they can complete.  Others of us just learn the skills we want at the pace we want.  They don't have any "advantage" over me, even if they learn every skill in 2 weeks time. 
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Palomides,
    For the record, I think it's a fine idea if TS were to add the skill queue to the game. I wouldn't have written the queue script if I didn't think so.

    It just blows my mind a little that you think that a freely usable/modifiable script gives folks an unfair advantage but "...providing benefits for using first party software is completely sensible."

    @F1re
    Your second suggestion is already in-place. Some skills already require you to complete certain tasks to get the required achievement before the skill can be learnt.
    Posted 18 months ago by ping Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The first question is why to NOT have a built in skill queue.
    I think the answer to this is that it is boring. "Fill out the a full queue, leave the game for 3 months and return to having the entire skill tree completed." Boring. (Yes, I am assuming a scenario where the game is up 24/7. Because that is what we are testing towards.) You SHOULD have to check in occasionally.

    While a skill queue system would be fine for the beta, it would not be great for the game post launch. So I am not in favor of TS spending time building that just for "fairness" to a basically not competitive game. The only competition is leader boards... which all get wiped at reset anyway.

    If I remember correctly (I only played it a few times) EVE allows you to queue up only three queues at a time. This wouldn't have much of an impact when you get to skill learning times of days and weeks (except for when you go on vacations), but at the early levels seems fine. But there is the factor of NOT wanting folks to climb to quickly, even at early levels.
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @LB-O
    Exactly- this was the point i was trying to make, well stated.
    Posted 18 months ago by F1re Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The thing is, you cannot "Fill out the a full queue, leave the game for 3 months and return to having the entire skill tree completed." because some skills require certain achievements before they can be learnt.

    Early on in the alpha, skills did not have the achievements requirement. Theoretically, I could have built the script so that you *could* just fill up the queue and not play at all to master the whole skill tree. I didn't, precisely because I wanted folks to actually play the game. You can only queue the skills that are directly available to you, so you couldn't queue Mining I - II - III - IV. That was then and still is the case for the version of the skill queue script I maintain.

    The game is a lot more than just clicking the "Learn this skill" button. If it weren't, you're right, it would be absolutely BORING and I would have stopped playing a long time ago.

    (And oh the irony, I don't even use the skill queue much myself these days. :p)
    Posted 18 months ago by ping Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If many skills have dependencies on things that aren't other skills (achievements, emblem spending, etc), then the queue can't become completely automated - there'll always a point at which you have to enter the game to actually do something before the next skills are enabled.
    Posted 18 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ping, I fully agree with you that the game is not just "click a skill" button. And, yes, there are blocks (emblems, achievements, etc.).  I am not against your script, even once the game launches. But I do think that a built-in queue creates a certain... mentality... about skill learning that doesn't the game. In the same way that having auctions delivered instantly didn't fit the game. Sure, it was convenient but it pulled me out of the game.

    I support the idea of the script... but as something folks make an active choice to use. If implemented by TS, it becomes the "norm."

    I am probably not explaining myself well as it is about "feel" of the game and so pretty ephemeral.
    Posted 18 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i would even like making skills more difficult to learn- a trip to the library/ guru or something :)
    Posted 18 months ago by F1re Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm certainly for making skills more difficult to learn. Though, with games like Civilization III, skill queues are built-in, optional, but still give intermittent prompts and notifications when you're playing, which I found to be an excellent system.
    Posted 18 months ago by RobotGymnast Subscriber! | Permalink