Topic

more "give players busywork" recyclabes?

so we just unlocked choru, after a ton of work, only to find that it is the same cookie cutter streets as baqala, with a continuation of the baqala nostalgia effect.

it would have been cool, and it is what but project participants seemed to be expecting, that choru would be an area similar to baqala except "normal" in terms of nostalgia .. having the neat effect of being separated from the rest of the world with a section that had a time limit to move through.

instead it seems to be more cookie cutter busywork for players.

the disappointment around the project area and the new streets group was palatable. what a let down.

just coz people said they liked the region and project concepts in a previous thread does not mean that they immediately want more of the same. i hope that was not the lesson drawn from the previous topic.

Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Ditto.  the nostalgia wouldn't be too bad if there were an actual way to manage it, a la through food or similar.  But between the emptiness of the region, the thievery, and the nostalgia?  Not somewhere I care to play.
    Posted 18 months ago by Leimailu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the new areas and think the new type of quests and differences are cool, you do gain more time in the area if you collect artifacts. I find it refreshingly different.
    Posted 18 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think I mostly wish on those areas that the time were more like 15 or 20 min.
    Posted 18 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Divine~ .. it *was* refreshingly different .. the first time it was unlocked.

    again, no one is talking about the nostalgia being a problem or the jujus being a problem or the artwork being a problem or the artifacts being a problem. not in and of themselves.

    in and of themselves they are fun.

    the problem is having all those things paraded out again, when the previous region was more than enough to satisfy the new mechanic.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic, yes, some hubs are going to be repeats of others. That's because there needs to be the capacity for tons of players. The developers can't control what the project workers will anticipate, and switch what's being unlocked to fit that need. Many, many new streets will be unlocked and some will be similar. That doesn't mean there won't be new and different streets, later.
    Posted 18 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • cupcake, you don't need to double up on a region, especially one with a time limit and other hazards that cycles players in and out of the region quickly anyway.

    none of the current regions are suffering from overcrowding.

    plus, it isn't that difficult to anticipate that project workers will anticipate something different from what they just unlocked.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think we need a new skill. Maybe "therapy," which can combat the impact of nostalgia.
    Posted 18 months ago by Dr. Flavius Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stri - when there are a million plus players then I would say that's not true, could use a lot more than 2, I would say they are being conservative with repeats at this point. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I suppose it feels rather like sitting in front of your Grandmother at Christmas, excitement building as you open that brightly wrapped gift in front of you...only to find out it is a pair of socks...with light up reindeer on..and you already have 10 pairs of them. 

    The disappointment is understandable, you just have to realise that other people may love light-up reindeer socks and just can't get enough of them...and also maybe the socks are just the small gift...the bigger one may be yet to come.
    Posted 18 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "@stri - when there are a million plus players then I would say that's not true"

    there are not currently a million plus players, and there are ways of scaling levels to hold more people without doing repeats.

    "The disappointment is understandable, you just have to realise that other people may love light-up reindeer socks and just can't get enough of them."

    true. although unlike a christmas gift you have to work to unlock them, and the only people who seem to like the socks are people who didn't do the unlocking.

    "the bigger one may be yet to come."

    if the other side of the choru map had, say, a big tower visible, then this wouldn't be an issue.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • if the process had a sense of narrative of the repetition leading up to something non-repetitious, that might help, but i'm not sensing much of any narrative at all.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "if the other side of the choru map had, say, a big tower visible, then this wouldn't be an issue."

    Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Just wait and see what comes, you may be pleasantly surprised.....or you might not be....who knows.
    Posted 18 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch's world would have to be too big to accomodate one million players with their houses and all.

    I guess there will be different servers with a lot less players in each of them.

    Regarding Choru and Baqala, I believe that in time there will be more things and stuff in them. If not they'll be a waste of space, making more difficult to navigate the world of Glitch with no reward.
    Posted 18 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Glitch's world would have to be too big to accomodate one million players with their houses and all.

    I guess there will be different servers with a lot less players in each of them."


    the stated intent of the developers is to have a single universal environment for all players.

    actually rather ambitious and impressive.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would not mind Charu if it was somewhere else. It is like the swamos, the first one was cool but after walking through three it gets really boring. If you connected Charu to Groddle or Mirch it would be cooler because when I walk between world  want to go from Meadow to Forest to Heights to Alakol to Mirch to Ix. 

    It would be much cooler if they just spread them out, maybe in 2 or 3 worlds we would welcome it again.

    It is true though, there will only ever be one server. It is a really attractive feature because all my friends will be online with me when they are. They can also make 20 bajillion housing blocks if they wanted to.
    Posted 18 months ago by Ani Laurel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Its really simple..if you don't like the area, don't go there. Right now, there are several areas where projects are active. I'm sure Baqala can be built by players who haven't had a chance to work on projects before now. I love the area, and think its fun, but I only go there occasionaly, so I don't get bored with it.
    Posted 18 months ago by Phoebe Springback Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I didn't know about the goal of having only one environment. I guess the result of this will depend on the number of players and the size and navigability of the world.

    There could be problems. For instance, if you had ten thousand houses in a housing complex, the exit street would be seriously overcrowded during peak hours. If you had one hundred thousand players simultaneously, and didn't want to average more than five in each street, you would need twenty thousand streets...

    But of course the devs must have all this taken into account. I would love to know how they plan to solve this kind of things.
    Posted 18 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why did you change the title?
    Posted 18 months ago by Shwan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's really simple: this is a beta & players get to express their disappointment at how things are panning out. We are here to give feedback. I'm pretty over the 'love it or leave it' responses.

    I was disappointed, too, and would have preferred a more massive Baqala than another land that looks 100% the same as the one next to it. I can even get why Choru looks the same as Baqala: the more people, the less chance to catch a trap in the allotted time. More streets can support more players. But this should have just been a larger Baqala. There are even more differences between the 3 swamps than between the 2 savannas.

    I do like Baqala/Chora and spent a lot of time in both today since two of the flowers give useful buffs for those regions, which made it a bit of fun.

    But I am nervous about the whole recycling of templates at this point - I'm sure more things are to be revealed over time, but I'd rather see projects take days, not hours, to complete if it means giving the debs enough time to create new stuff than to race through projects just to get more of the same.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My only complaint is invisible jujus.  I never see them coming now (Bug?)  I don't see any word from them either.  Today I was startled a few times when all of a sudden a message in the local chat announced that a juju had stolen something from me - LOL!  Fortunately they are dimwits and only steal things like paper from me.  I have not lost anything I needed (yet).
    Posted 18 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Its really simple..if you don't like the area, don't go there. Right now, there are several areas where projects are active. I'm sure Baqala can be built by players who haven't had a chance to work on projects before now. I love the area, and think its fun, but I only go there occasionaly, so I don't get bored with it."

    i'm very much over the "love it or leave it" attitude as well.

    first off, i'm *not going to go to choro*, so that isn't what this is about.

    what it is about, is the work going into building choro only to find it to be a recycled template.

    i mean, we knew it was probably going to be a recycled template just by looking at the lay of the land but still there was the strong possibility of the "nostalgia effect" not being present, which would have been a very clever way to recycle a template well still having variety.

    instead it was a major let down.
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • what bothered me about this wasn't that it was a recycled template, but that there was no safe buffer zone in between the two nostalgia zones. I was overwhelmed when the new area was opened, and luckily I had the presence of mind to find out what was going on before I went to check it out, otherwise I would have wasted the free teleport. it seems like it would be a lot more accessible if these types of regions were at the very least spread out from each other on the map, if not at all differentiated otherwise.
    Posted 18 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i actually like the idea of there being multiple areas like Baqala, and additional one would be equally cool, because navigating through it to something really different on the other side would make it a fun adventure.   

    I think there should be a better balance between positives (plant buffs, high value quoins) and negatives (nostalgia timer, jello cup juju's) so that people will either plan trips to a single region because of the yields involved or a long trip through all the regions because there is an Arcadian oasis on the other side.  There should be other kinds of positives and negatives too, a quick example being, oh, juju tracking/hunting, which could yield the hunter a sizable chunk of spoils from the juju band.  

    It, like so many areas in Glitch, has so much potential, and I think the main frustration for me is really not knowing if this is really it or if instead that potential is eventually going to get exploited down the line.
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, I was hoping that at the end of Baqala there would have been something epic and Giant-infested, since that was their abandoned stomping grounds. Or maybe it could have connected to Jethimadh, since the trees keep telling me how the world is essentially ovular and contained within the shape, not outside of it. Although other trees tell me that that's not true... those sly foxes. 
    Posted 18 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm guessing there will be an oasis of some sort coming. Like maybe an actual oasis or watering hole.
    Posted 18 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am completely in support of having a second or even third savannah region with the nostalgia effect. It gives the world a sense of bigness, and crossing it is like crossing an ocean, in other words, not a trip you do on a whim.
    Posted 18 months ago by Tofu Casserole Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm done with people being done with "love it or leave it" — first, because it's ok for other people to have a different opinion that you do and second because … no one is saying that.

    Striatic: Obviously, projects make you upset. New features or changes usually tend to make you upset. And, in general, playing the game seems to make you very upset and frustrated. And yet you play every single test for hour after hour. Have you considered taking a break? Maybe come back in a few months and it will be more to your liking? Or at least take a test or two off and do something else?

    Otherwise, all your complaints just come out sounding like "I am hitting myself in the face with this hammer and it's really painful!!" — of course, when people hear that, they will say something like "maybe try not hitting yourself in the face with a hammer?"

    If you're not willing to stop playing or take a break, then perhaps it would be less unpleasant for you if you adjust your expectations. We can't pull magic out of our hats every 3 days — if your expectations were more in line with what human beings could possibly achieve your frustration would probably lessen.
    Posted 18 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you
    Posted 18 months ago by Yark Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "And yet you play every single test for hour after hour. Have you considered taking a break?"

    i have been taking breaks. i've barely played this test.

    today i ran around groddle forest for an hour collecting cherries in an effort to reverse engineer someone's auction sniper and then resolve it by either bankrupting them them or, more likely, filling their inventory. that was fun.

    then i got bored and left. i popped into the game for 1 minute after i got an email from someone telling me the rook showed up. i just missed it so i left.

    i think you are really overestimating how much time i actually spend in the game of late, confusing how i used to play it with how i play it now. when i am disappointed by the game, my typical reaction is to discuss why with people, and then *leave*.

    "We can't pull magic out of our hats every 3 days"

    you don't have to pull magic out of your hats every three days. whatever amount of time is necessary to pull the magic out, take it. if it takes a month, take a month. artwork takes time. level design takes time. programming new items and effects takes time. ideas take time.

    the issue is what the players are given to do during that wait time.

    "if your expectations were more in line with what human beings could possibly achieve your frustration would probably lessen."

    stewart, good grief. you really honestly do think that i expect miracle bouquets of new content to come flying out of the game map every single time i log in, don't you? i don't expect one iota more 'wheat' than the glitch staff produces. there's plenty of wheat already. it's the chaff that's the issue.

    if anything my personal problem here is too much patience. i'd much rather wait and have good stuff released at whatever speed it takes to provide the good stuff, than have to continually poke at the game to figure out what is good and what is recycled filler.

    i guess i should just wait offline until someone emails me to tell me something interesting is happening, but then i'd probably log in too late and miss it : ]
    Posted 18 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What bothered me about this wasn't that it was a recycled template, but that there was no safe buffer zone in between the two nostalgia zones.

    I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.  I really expected the timer to be rest when you crossed the boundary into the new zone/region.  When I found out it didn't, I was left wondering, really?!  What's the point of that?  

    I do think this type area is a refreshing change, but it would be better if there weren't two of them (exactly the same) right next to each other. I like the idea of spacing them out a bit. Or modifying them a bit so they aren't just a repeat...otherwise, like was previously said...just put them all on one big Baqala map since they are the same region.

    Sorry stoot, I have to disagree with your public thrashing of striatic...the beta testers aren't here to be your game's yes men...we're here to offer differing opinions to make the game better - we're here to think out of the box - and yes, sometimes it's going to seem like the same players are posting those alternate opinions and sometimes it will feel like to you that we're complaining all the time.  There IS a contingent of 'love it or leave it' folks here and it IS quite annoying, and they have frightened many into silence since many don't want to be bashed by them for having a differing opinion...now if you want a bunch of brown nosed players, then fine, the rest of us can leave or keep silent and you guys can get your beta kudos and feel good about yourselves...but I think you'd rather have a better game that appeals to a broader audience than that...good grief...**shakes head**
    Posted 18 months ago by ~Pink Flamingo~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic has been, going back to the early days of Flickr, one of the most thoughtful, in-depth and stringent thinkers among early users of Flickr and Glitch, I don't think anyone who has read his detailed and incisive commentary on EVERY subject can argue with that.  He has been integral in getting the discussion about Glitch up and running, and a big part of creating the permanent culture here.  But I don't think that means he can't be disagreed with either, even by a dev.  And as for his public thrashing...he can take as good as he dishes out from what I have seen. 

    Having read some absolutely brutal criticism of this game for almost a year now in these forums, I sincerely don't think that stoot and the other devs are subjected to a bunch of soft-pedaling bullshit from players.  Far from it, in fact.

    As for the attitude of "love it or leave it"...everybody, at some point or another, embodies this attitude, I don't see it as a constant refrain from specific people, so it's pretty easy to take with a grain of salt (unless you happen to be disagreeing with me at the time!).
    Posted 18 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not having been involved in projects yet, I can see the frustration stri is talking about.  I think I've wandered into the zones under discussion and was a little ... let down(?) by the similarity (and regularity - the grid of streets...) in those areas.

    When there's a big task asked of a player, you want a big reward, and the expectation was that there would be *something different* - something the same is less than fair.  In answer to the complain (winging though it sounds) that a fully realized zone in 3 days of dev works would be superhuman: why not instead open a blank canvas?  

    Part of the draw of Glitch is the player-authoring of the world.  Start the new zone as a misty wasteland, waiting to be developed by players.  Make some kind of development of the existing zones a precondition for opening new ones.

    And my two cents (the forgoing feels like an obvious suggestion): have the "Giants" (staff) judge the "goodness" of various zones, both bestowing their favor on zones that they like, and providing a criteria for completion.  I envision an 11-master game of Zendo, where the things that the giants like (and don't like) are consistent, but secret, so that players as a whole develop superstitions and religions about them.
    Posted 17 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, I applaud you for your forebearance. I find Striatics incessant whining and bitching to be way over the top.  He needs a long rest somewhere away from this game. Unfortunately, he is addicted and can't stop playing... I pray to GOD that he learns to keep his mouth shut... One never learns a thing while talking....There is no need for lengthy criticism. I hope some people,  if they continue to attack the game, can be more concise and offer valid alternatives.
    Posted 17 months ago by napabeth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Has there been streets in this region where street materials, (dirt, peat, boards) are needed? I've acquired quite a few from traveling around and I always seem to miss the first project of a new street where they are required. It would be nice to use them towards a street project rather than just auctioning them off. 

    So that's my suggestion, add along the specific dirt, peat, and boards street projects.
    Posted 17 months ago by tallmerebear Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I actually find this very odd, and rather rude to seek feedback on your beta and then to publicly crush someone when they provide it.

    Stewart, if you have some sort of long standing issue with striatic, as could be inferred from one of the comments, wouldn't it be better to settle that in private?

    Certainly this thread is not a great advert for how criticism of the game is dealt with and personally speaking has made me think twice about providing the feedback that TS seek and claim to value.
    Posted 17 months ago by SQUIRT Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With the utmost respect Squirt you need to have followed the feedback Striatic has provided over many months to understand that Stewarts comments are not as harsh as you deem them.

    Stewart has shown an incredible amount of tollerance and tried repeatedly to answer Striatics concerns but to no avail he keeps repeating the same IMHO caustic remarks.

    That Stewart chose to deal with this publically is I think a sign of both his honesty and his integrity. He let us see what his response was and although it may appear as unfair criticism to you, To me Stewarts respose was once again more than fair

    Edit, changed emphasis that this is soley my opinion,
    Posted 17 months ago by Faereluth Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've decided the Stoot-Striatic interaction is a particularly intense example of man-flirting
    Posted 17 months ago by EgIantine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Stewart, if you have some sort of long standing issue with striatic, as could be inferred from one of the comments, wouldn't it be better to settle that in private?"

    why the heck napabeth felt the need to level a personal slam so late in the game [almost 3 weeks after the OP] is beyond me, but squirt .. this topic was a day dead when ya bumped it.

    though you present a good idea, stewart has contacted me in private already, and we both agreed to drop certain assumptions, and felt like it was all a good attempt at a fresh start, so if yawl would prefer to focus your concerns on more pressing matters, i think that would be splendid.

    and faerluth .. yes. you are correct that it is solely your opinion and thank you for editing your post to reflect this. i appreciate it.
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmmm, by Tii, I think you have hit it on the head, Eggy. It is a bromance thing. It's branter.
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • and yes we could go on for days forming teams and collecting votes ..

    +2 stoot: napabeth and faerluth
    +2 striatic: tallmerebear and SQUIRT
    +2 stoot/striatic slash fiction: Eglantine and Nanookie

    i don't think many people would be interested in engaging that.
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink