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#### Major failure in using the block player system to manage street access

I am a yellow farmer, I farm yellow herbs most of my time on glitch. Everytime I plant a herb, I clean up, replant and water behind me. Once in a while, a street will ban me. I usually assume that they saw me on their list and banned me for another user not cleaning up properly.
I'd love to explain this to the person who blocked me, but I am never given the chance because I can not communicate with that user ever again. Why is the player block system combined with the street block system? There needs to be completely separate managed block lists for these. Blocking someone from your street doesn't necessarily mean you never want to hear them chat again
Not really happy with this seemingly lazy design decision. At the very least, please make it more clear when a player blocks you. New players are constantly asking in live help why they can not click a sign, or TP through a third party link. Some kind of clear popup should announce you are blocked anytime you enter a blocked street.
Just some thoughts...

Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink

### Replies

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- My issue with blocking is different but related in some way to your concern about there being no way to get feedback for being blocked based on street actions.
  I think there should be a way to Block a player in chat without Blocking them from your street. These things are, to me, totally unrelated and yet there's only one Block function.
  I have virtually nothing on my street (by choice) so I don't care who wanders by, my issue is more that it's confusing to block someone for a "social" reason and have them wonder what they did "wrong" on my street.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hydi | Permalink
- It would be hard to implement, but wouldn't it be cool if your butler could tell you the list of actions that a certain person took while they were on your street?
  Posted 4 months ago by Serra | Permalink
- +1 Serra
  Posted 4 months ago by Toksyuryel | Permalink
- Absolutely Serra! I mentioned that in global the other day, at least then people could see who take advantage of their resources and can then ban them accordingly. Also, I understand some people want their streets for their own uses, and I have no problem with that. I just wish I could ask them if that was why!
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- If I'm bothered by your behavior on my street, why should you be able to quiz me about my decision to block you?
  What you seem to be asking for is a way to make me defend my decision to block you from my street. I see no reason to create an entirely separate blocking system just so you can argue with me about my decisions.
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- I am not at all asking you to defend yourself, I would want to clear up any misconceptions about me and figure out if I did something to offend you. If you said, "Bugger off" or even "I just don't want you taking all my yellow crumb." then done, I never say a word to you again. Is that really going to be such a big deal? I'm not saying to remove the social block, you are welcome to block any person that IM's you and wastes your precious time. :)
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- Knowing why you are blocked, may help you learn what not to do in the future. Even if it wasn't an exchange as much as a statement left for the person blocked so they would know why.
  Posted 4 months ago by Rosencrantz | Permalink
- My reason for blocking may or may not have anything to do with your behavior on my street.
  What you seem to be asking for is a way for you to feel better about my blocking you by allowing you to contact me and ask about my reasons for blocking you.
  The person blocking has every opportunity to IM or mail a message asking about your behavior. If they want to clear up any misconceptions, they already have the chance to do so. If they wanted to discuss it instead of simply using a block, they can already handle the issue that way.
  What you are asking is that the person not be able to use the block without leaving themselves open for uncomfortable conversations that they've already chosen not to have with you.
  No thanks.
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- If that is the case, it simply adds one extra step to your process. Ignore the player from chat as well as banning them from your land. In my opinion this fix is worth the inconvenience of one additional click to you. This isn't a feature request, this is a broken feature.
  Honestly, how often do you block people from your street?
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- +1 WindBorn
  Posted 4 months ago by Piratice | Permalink
- There are a lot of player streets in the world now. If I can't go to one street, I just go to another and on with it.
  Some people are block crazy. Let them be. Don't waste your time and energy trying to figure it out. Who cares? There's more people to meet who will gladly accept you on their street.
  Posted 4 months ago by Eye Wonder | Permalink
- +1 WindBorn I've blocked someone only to have them create an alt to pester me about why I blocked him in the first place. The alt then got blocked, too. Why should I have to explain myself to someone I dislike talking to? If you're making my game that much less enjoyable, that's reason enough for me. It should be reason enough for you.
  Posted 4 months ago by glassy | Permalink
- Wow, never knew there were so many angry unsocial glitches out there. Maybe the real solution is for glitch to let users set their streets to private so they can be shut-ins from the world. :)
  In any case, Serra had the best idea for a more detailed street log so that owners can make educated decisions on bans.
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- +1 Windborn. I think it should stay a blanket block. Maybe not for the exact same reasons as Windborn, but I agree, if i block someone, i don't want to interact with them in any way. I realize that some people are touchy feely and have a psychological need to be heard, but sometimes you just have to shrug it off and let it go.
  If they start splitting up blocking into who, what, when, where, why, then it will turn into facebook and sitting around for hours trying to figure who to block or what security group to put them in.
  KISS = keep it simple stupid
  Posted 4 months ago by Bam-Chikk | Permalink
- One has to do with land management and the other has to do with social management, its the same in nearly every online game out there with a sandbox environment and player housing. When I block someone from my street, it doesn't necessarily mean I never want to see what they say again.
  This also doesn't negate the fact that there is a severe lack of tools for land management currently.
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- +1 Eye Wonder Lots of new people coming in now who (let's hope) might be less set in their ways and more open to different styles of play. I think we should all be able to find like-minded people to play with. If someone messes with you, just move on to the next person.
  Also, I think allowing people to force others into conversations about blocking would be dreadful. If there were only 12 of us playing then yes, we would need to work out our differences. But Ur is a big enough for us to be able to steer clear of people who bother us.
  Posted 4 months ago by Miss Bobbit | Permalink
- I must agree with Windborn and if that upsets anyone Please feel free to block me lol. I am part of several ...5...routes. I block people that I Know have abused my generosity and the decision is not made lightly.
  Posted 4 months ago by Anya Karenya | Permalink
- I have 0 other players blocked.. And about 400 people have me listed as their friends. So I don't think I fit your definition of "angry, unsocial glitches". And if you've followed any of the public/private debates about home streets, you'll know that I'm a loud advocate of them being completely open to the public. I've already earned the "kindness of strangers" badge, so I don't think I'm a shut-in.
  You simply cannot dismiss my arguments by painting me as some loner who doesn't like interacting with other players. Name calling doesn't make your argument any stronger.
  What I don't like is giving people you have blocked access to you in game to argue with you about your decision.
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- I'm pretty sympathetic to the one-block-fits-all arguments laid out above but I still stand by my belief than "land management" and "social management" are, and should be, distinct.
  One additional wrinkle to this is that streets connect, or can, blocking access to a street-as-passage, particularly when the block was initialized for social/chat reasons, seems like it's going to increase the housing disconnect from the world that is of concern to many players. If the block was at least realized as a No Interaction Allowed that could be a compromise but I still think the should be separate.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hydi | Permalink
- Redacted.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hawkwell | Permalink
- You may be blocking for different reasons when it comes to your street than in chat. Could do this though, when you tell it to ban, have a button for Street Only, Chat Only and Full Block. That way you can chose from the three different options depending on what the situation was for that particular block.
  Posted 4 months ago by Lyrical DejaVu | Permalink
- A simple, optional text field when blocking people would allow Glitchen to let the blocked people know if they're being blocked for a specific reason. Completely optional, understand. I have a friend who has banned people for harvesting herbs without replanting and watering, and it would be much more constructive to ban them with a note as to why. This way, they at least have the option of correcting their behaviour.
  Posted 4 months ago by Fritzl | Permalink
- Or they could message them before/instead of blocking them
  Posted 4 months ago by shhexy corin | Permalink
- @Hawkwell, as a fellow civility member who Does fully believe in the Civility guidelines...if you believe my blocking a few that Repeatedly clean out freebies...Only person showing on butler more than one day at a time...and a few other abuses. I am leaving the group sadly. You Could have spoken with me Privately as would be the Civility way. My family in said group will also leave.
  It really is Easy to know the Repeated abusers...i.e they never clean or replant and no one else Repeatedly was on the street, they take All freebies and no one else showed up for repeated game days.
  Whatever, all play as they please and perhaps I am Less civil than I thought when it comes to takers and lazies. So be it.
  Posted 4 months ago by Anya Karenya | Permalink
- Alaina, Sorry you took such offence. I hadn't realized I was being so harsh.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hawkwell | Permalink
- I really like Lyrical DejaVu's idea of the 3 button choices: Street Only, Chat Only and Full Block.
  Simple.
  Posted 4 months ago by Zira | Permalink
- @shhexy corin you can't mail people who aren't on your friends list nor can you IM a player who isn't online, so in most cases there really isn't any way to communicate the reason for being street-blocked
  Posted 4 months ago by Hydi | Permalink
- Oh, I guess you could add the person to your friends list, send a mail and then block them. But that seems crazy.
  Posted 4 months ago by Hydi | Permalink
- Zira, I agree. That would be a nice compromise. In addition, I like the idea of being able to set a reason for the ban that uses that text when you try to enter the street.
  Hydi, that is also part of my concern. Routes, as well as interconnected street systems. It seems like glitch wants to have it both ways. Make houses public streets to everyone, without any land management tools, but at the same time give a very basic way to block people that doesn't seem to fit in at all with how public streets should work. It needs to be one way or another, give us full control over our land or make public streets public. Why in the world did they add in the API options to search and list resources from pub streets/towers without any kind of privacy options unless they wanted all streets to be considered public use? Its very confusing which stance glitch is taking on it.
  Windborn, sorry if I painted you out to be that way. I was a bit harsh last night. Everyone has very good ideas in this thread, I was just annoyed that you gave no alternative suggestions. You painted me out to be some kind of person that just can't get over being blocked by someone and cares too much about it. This game is about community, about the players and social aspect. It's what makes this game at all. Its not that big of a game, and I see the same players often in chat and streets. All I ask for is the chance to clear things up with a person who may have wrongfully banned me. (I understand not all situations are the same, and it MIGHT be an abuse situation, but when it comes to herb/crop usage and resource routes, it is not always the case.) I just feel like there needs to be some kind of change, not necessarily the one that I came up with, but there are plenty of less invasive ideas posted here that I think others could get on board with.
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- +1 Fritzi. How's a glitch to change their behavior if they're not even sure what they did to get blocked?
  Posted 4 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue | Permalink
- I recently blocked someone because the discussion was just going in circles, and I did not want to continue it. Leaving them a bypass to inquire about the block would have defeated the purpose of the block.
  Having a little more control on the blocking end would probably be helpful -- the option of giving "miscreants" a 30 {Ur} day block + message regarding why may give them something to think about.
  Edit: OP, keep in mind may players consider harvesting of "their" yellow to be infringing & cause to block you. There was a looong debate earlier this week (not trying to rehash it, just noting the debate)
  Posted 4 months ago by Sturminator i` | Permalink
- Any change to the block system has to keep in mind that this is the system that is used to avoid being harassed in game. Yes, harassment is against the rules and could get someone suspended or even banned, but with the potential for hundreds of thousands or millions of players, the staff is not going to police every interaction. Giving people who were blocked a way to communicate with people who blocked them is giving them another channel to insult, badger and threaten.
  The flip side of that is that is that we all know that blocking is there to deal with really problematic people, so when we get blocked we feel like we must be problematic people, or at the very least that someone out there feels that way about us. Blocking is kind of like a restraining order, and few of us feel like we act badly enough to deserve one of those. Being blocked by someone can feel like being accused, tried and convicted without being given a chance to say anything in your defense.
  But I don't think there should be any changes to the blocking system. If the stranger who blocked you had the choice between street, chat or full block, what makes you think that they would not have chosen full block anyway? My experience reading forums is that people who block people from their streets do so in the belief that those people are free-loaders, leeches or thieves - if they've already decided that, do you think they want to talk to you? It's just an additional way for them to reject you, and you'll know for sure that they don't only want you off their street, but they also don't think you are worth interacting with.
  Unfortunately we are not all going to get along. We can't mitigate that by changing the options in a video game.
  Posted 4 months ago by Humbabella | Permalink
- Why don't we either make home streets unblock able or COMEPLETELY take out front yard street gardens?! All it's causing is a crapload of arguments. If we diet have front yard gardens everything would be fine and no one would argue since they would all be in the backyard!
  Posted 4 months ago by Hersche | Permalink
- We have streets and street gardens because the opportunity to be generous and to share—to connect and to beautify—is more important than trying to eliminate the possibility that someone will do something that someone finds annoying, rude, or obnoxious.
  Posted 4 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- Hersche, people will argue even if there aren't front yard gardens. You might search this forum to see all the flame wars about gardening even when front yard gardens didn't exist, and the only place you could have a garden was your back yard.
  Pascale TS has given us the opportunity to be generous, but they have not made it more important than preventing people from doing something rude. You can do both with the current system
  Posted 4 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- Or, we could just state that streets are public and you should not put resources there that you do not want to share. Then blocking could go back to being about abuse again.
  Oh, wait....
  Posted 4 months ago by Vic Fontaine | Permalink
- I don't honestly see it as a "failure". It brings about what it's intended to do, que no? It is put in place to prevent a player that you have issues with from interacting with you. It is for the benefit of the blocker, not the blockee.
  If I feel I have reason to block you, no matter how slight or insignificant, then I will avail myself of this feature if need be. Haven't had to yet, can't imagine it happening. I personally don't need layers of blockage, either. Kindly silly to me; I will block you from my street but still let you chat me up? Not likely. Give me one button to mash that eases my troubled mind. Thank you Team TS for this option.
  It could be legitimate. It could be that I like Chelsea and you like the hated Arsenal. Maybe I heard in conversation that you insisted that Angelo Debarre is every bit as good as Django. Whatever the reason the outcome is the same. Click and done. If you've warranted exclusion, what ever reason would give you the right to contest this action? It is not a court of law.
  As for how would one know what behaviour to change to be less likely to get blocked in the future, a measure of common sense and courtesy should be your guide. Clean up after yourself. Replant. Help with projects. If you've depleted a resource then you're obligated (imo) to rectify the situation (unless otherwise instructed). Most Glitchizens post instructions as to how to conduct oneself on their property. In my eyes what it comes down to is this; you are a guest when you travel. Act accordingly.
  I've been blocked before simply for being friends with someone the blocker didn't get on with. Didn't do or say anything inappropriate. I can live with that. There are so many streets and wonderful people here that I won't lose any sleep over not being able to go down one particular avenue. Seriously, nothing to lose e-self esteem over. My views are pretty skewed admittedly but should you find yourself blocked from visiting a street the best course of action is to go out and make a new friend. Or two. Or five. Why dwell on what you feel denied when opportunities present themselves to be blessed. A startling abundance of people and resources are available to help you prosper. All within your grasp. Reach out.
  Posted 4 months ago by malo | Permalink
- -1 too much energy spent on this already; don't put garden plots in your front yard if you don't want other people to use them!
  Posted 4 months ago by Janitch | Permalink
- I think a good notice like mentioned above should look like this (Magic Rock style):
  XXXXX has blocked you.
  Type of block: Street only
  Reason: (optional) You picked all my garden plots
  The message could not be replied to, and it could be reported for abuse using the same guidelines as reporting in regular chat.
  Posted 4 months ago by AwesomeCardinal2000 | Permalink
- Here's another way to look at it: interacting with others and visiting their streets is not a right, it's a privilege. "Because I want to" is not a compelling argument for overcoming a mechanic that allows someone to decline to engage with you.
  Posted 4 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- I blocked one person, this week for coming onto my street and taking all the goodies I had put there for the new glitchen around. I was on my street at the time and asked him to stop taking everything, but he took no notice of me, he got away with over 3ks worth of goods, including tools. I think I was right to ban him from my street, I leave stuff out all the time and he is only one who I have had a problem with.
  Posted 4 months ago by Miss Melody | Permalink
- Malo, thats kind of the point...
  "As for how would one know what behaviour to change to be less likely to get blocked in the future, a measure of common sense and courtesy should be your guide. Clean up after yourself. Replant. Help with projects. If you've depleted a resource then you're obligated (imo) to rectify the situation (unless otherwise instructed). Most Glitchizens post instructions as to how to conduct oneself on their property. In my eyes what it comes down to is this; you are a guest when you travel. Act accordingly."
  I do all of this, and once in a while I get banned from a route or a large scale player map. I clean up, I replant, I water. I even help with projects if I get some extra dirt from hoe'ing. When I clean out a map of yellow herbs, and see a plot that someone left dirty, I clean it up at my own cost. I sometimes feel a victim of an unfortunate glitch that left the place a mess. Especially when I clean up an entire map to only find out later I got banned AFTER planting things in blank places! I just wish I had the opportunity to clear things up or even offer my help with getting someones crops back to life. I mentioned earlier as well, I COMPLETELY understand if someone bans me because they want to keep the resources. If I visit too many times in the day, etc. Hey, its your street. But all I wish I had was the chance to find that out.
  @Pascale: I visit your street multiple times a day and I always replant and try to clean things up that people leave a mess. Thank you for keeping it open and being such a great glitch. :)
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- Lyrical's compromise was something I thought of yesterday when I read this thread. It seems the best compromise to me.
  If the stranger who blocked you had the choice between street, chat or full block, what makes you think that they would not have chosen full block anyway? - Humbabella
  But then you know it was because they had the choice to do a full block, and not just because it was the only option available.
  It would give people different options based on their personality/play style and how they want to deal with issues. Different options aren't bad.
  Posted 4 months ago by Little Miss Giggles | Permalink
- Communication people. Oftentimes the behavior you see as bad is simply because they don't know that it was frowned upon (the replanting, that is). I totally feel you should be free to block whoever you want, but as with most things ignoring the problem doesn't fix it.
  Personally, I don’t care if you block me. I prefer people who can actually communicate with others about things like this. Not pull a grade school “I’m not talking to you then!” move. I say this with the understanding that I haven’t been a total jerk to said person. If I did unintentionally offend someone, I would prefer to know about it so I can be more aware of that in my interactions with others.
  Posted 4 months ago by Evelynddra | Permalink
- Actually, you still can contact the glitch who blocked you. Check to see when they are in the world and you can write them a note and 'give' it to them. I did that once with a well-known (at the time) player who blocked me, probably for saying rude things about cats, but who knows really. I apologized profusely for whatever I did and begged forgiveness. It didn't get me anywhere. The player has since retired from the game.
  Posted 4 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- @Windborn you're defending something completely ridiculous. They are NOT asking the people who get blocked in streets be ALLOWED to message you, they are ONLY asking that it be seperated so you can DECIDE if you want to block someone from contacting you when you block them from your street. STOP MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL!!
  Posted 4 months ago by Cherry Cat | Permalink
- @Walruz: That's a nice idea actually, though only a work-around. Its kind of like the making an alt though, I don't really feel comfortable "getting around" the current block system. It makes me feel like I am being some kind of criminal or harasser when all I want to do is say, "Sorry if I did something wrong! Please let me know what I did, if you care to, thanks!"
  Posted 4 months ago by Ramus | Permalink
- To actually weigh in on the issue, I agree with those who think street blocking should ALLOW someone to choose not to block communication. This is about communication. If I think someone is doing nasty things in my home street, I would feel MUCH better about blocking them if I knew that we could still talk about the issue and I could get their side of things. I do NOT like to be mean, and working things out is kind of what I believe Glitch is all about anyways. It's a community, and if you CAN resolve things by talking, I support that.
  Posted 4 months ago by Cherry Cat | Permalink
- Most people are good people with good intentions. But we need to stop thinking about how the block feature affects us. The block feature was created to stop the worst case scenario of abuse and harassment. I joined during the first launch and the only thing the block feature did at that time was prevent someone friending you. Shortly after the block was changed to the one currently in place and though I have had to rarely use it I much prefer it this way.
  Rejection of any sort hurts and blocking is one form of rejection. But even if you feel the person using the block is being too caviler with it or is maybe too thin skinned, that is their prerogative (and if it's about living and let living, then why do you care you were blocked to begin with).
  A multiple choice block allows for more confusion, potential for errors, and will take up resources and time to implement.
  Posted 4 months ago by Mithax | Permalink
- Hooray for micromanagement! I think I'd faint if I had a detailed list of what people do on my street. Imagine the ridiculously long message you'd get if 10 people visited your street. Player X dug dirt 5 times, harvested 14 bean trees (twice), watered 3 bean trees, reflected on icon of Mab, squoze 12 chickens, petted 40 pigs (twice), nibbled 39 pigs (twice), nibbled 1 pig(once).
  Then I could decide... look at that jerk, didn't even bother petting the trees or watering all of them. I'm aghast at their behavior. From here on they shall be barred from my public resources.
  I can only imagine that such a thing would cause even more frivolous blocking. Yup, I said frivolous because I think blocking people that aren't actively harassing a player (e.g. stalking, sexually harassing, etc) but rather, making use of publicly accessible resources is a weird controlling action to take.
  And while I'm high horsing it, I don't care if I get blocked. Nor do I care to have a discussion with the blocker about any misunderstanding because while they may think I'm a boor, I'd just assume right back that they are being petty.
  But hey, keep building them fences higher and higher.
  Posted 4 months ago by Malus Agricola | Permalink

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