Topic

On Skills, Specialization and Strategies

It doesn't currently make any more game sense to specialize than it did to do anything but (for instance) munch Rookswort all day.

So long as I can be as good at everything all at once as someone who specialized in any one thing, then it will pretty much always be easier to do all my crafting myself.  The only value to be had in crafted/collected things will be the convenience of having them in 10 minutes, versus the iMG/enjoyment of making them yourself.  (And frankly, I'm not sure if there's many things a dedicated player couldn't make from scratch in 10 minutes at the moment.)

The flip side of the "bonus/penalty" coin would be: what if the bonus you get now from your skills was just what you get if you're at or above 100% brain capacity?  But if you were under capacity they up-to-double.  So if *all* you do is Mining, you get the bonuses of Mining IV almost-doubled - i.e. mining takes you 2 seconds, and the chances you find a gem are almost doubled.  So you'd be a rock-chunk *machine*, and you'd only ever donate gems, but totally reliant on others for food and cocktails and tool repair.

I think that'd rock (heh) but if you don't, then ignore the extra bonus and be a JOATs and continue as your are.

But right now, there's no game incentive to cooperate - it makes much more sense to do pretty much everything yourself.  At some point someone will work out the absolute fastest queue to learn all the skills in and anyone who plays for - 3 months, 6 months? - will have all the skills, and it's a solitaire game with chat and parties.  

Posted 5 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • You double posted this..... It's in the other topic also.
    Posted 5 months ago by Hersche Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There is "no game incentive to cooperate," yet there is still cooperation in the game. Why do you feel that it must be incentivized? It sounds to me like you want to push people to play the way you want to play. The game currently BREEDS cooperation. You desire to FORCE it. It is the difference between a velvet glove and a battering ram.

    There are plenty of games out there that require different choices, notably specialization. Many of us play THIS game because it has no such requirement, but rather allows us to play in a more relaxed manner.
    Posted 5 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Yarrow.  

    I play another MMO where the various game activities actually have real-world skills associated with them so people actually are naturally better at one than another. People doing those activities get rewarded directly commensurate with their skill, so players who practice a lot or who have a natural proclivity for one type of activity over another get better faster and earn more rewards.    

    People tend to specialize in what they like, or find comfortable, or challenging, or what they are good at.  Very few players are excellent at everything so as a result the game has a very robust inter-player economy and lots of cooperative activities.  People trade for things they can't easily make themselves, or work with other players (combining their skill sets) to meet larger goals.  ("chat and parties" are there too...)

    In glitch, all the possible activities involve just clicking  and waiting.  (Mining, Farming, Distilling, Drink Making...)  Various things like  "Skills" (which are character skills not player skills) and "Upgrades" modify the time it takes to do various tasks and how many resources (energy, mood) you have to do them.  But there is very little for the player to really learn, and no real skills to develop.  I'm just as "skilled" at squeezing chickens now as I ever was... I think Glitch players choose what to do themselves versus what they buy or trade for more by what they are willing to wait for than anything else. 

    I don't see the status quo building cooperative game-play.  

    Glitch has a wonderfully wacky and creative graphical vibe, animation style and backstory.  I keep checking in hoping that it develops into something more compelling.  I hope Stoot and the team figure it out.
    Posted 5 months ago by Corduroy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hersche, I felt like the other topic had ranged far from where it had started, and this is a topic I also feel strongly about.

    Audaria, I feel like it should be incentivized specifically because my experience of the game is not a cooperative one.  I've tried to play in a cooperative way, but it's really not worth the hassle.  It's always going to be more trouble to cooperate than to do everything yourself, and at the moment there's no counterbalance to that.

    But for the sake of argument: where do you see the game "BREEDING" cooperation?  Maybe in the old Avaya Bliss, if you were into mining.  I can't think what else you're talking about.
    Posted 5 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the solitary aspect...why I keep logging in day after day.  Do enjoy a good chat too once in a while.  This game won't be for everyone long term but no game ever will be : )
    Posted 5 months ago by ~Arabesque~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My experience of the game is that it is as cooperative as you want it to be.  Rather than make the effort yourself, you seem to want TS to force people to play in a style that isn't a "hassle" for you. 

    For me, it's not more trouble to cooperate so I don't know what experiences you are having that make you think there are barriers to cooperation that make it "not worth the hassle". 

    There are some game mechanics that encourage cooperation (mining drops, death, fox brushing).  There are game tutorials that encourage cooperation (Peter Out Pete, et al).  And there are spontaneous cooperative activities such as groups (Sandbox, Civility) and player-created resource routes. 

    It sounds to me more like you haven't found a group of players who are willing to cooperate with you in a playing style that is comfortable for you.  Personally, that's not been my experience, and I see no reason to force everyone into your playing style because you can't find other players who you think are compatible. 
    Posted 5 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I enjoy playing by myself, when I am in the mood to do so.  I enjoy chatting with my friends in Civility when I'm feeling social, and I really enjoy group activities with Civility when I am in a really social mood --  such as projects to decorate a street, to get as much iMG to a group of home streets as we can, to go fox brushing together, and so on.

    My favorite thing about this game might just be that I am not forced to be social when I am feeling solitary.

    I was a solitary player all the time until I found Civility, and that was fine with me too.  But now I have really lovely cooperation and interaction with great people when I want it... best of all worlds :-D
    Posted 5 months ago by Clarabelle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Right now, this game is mostly a single player game with a chat room. I think it's great to be solitary when you want, but I don't think calling for a little bit more interdependence would hurt.
    Posted 5 months ago by Reirei Umezaki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Right now, this game is .....

    That's your impression of what the game is.  Clearly other people view it from a different perspective. 
    Posted 5 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Are you saying, "I would like to be more cooperative than I am" or "other people aren't as cooperative as they should be" (and the game should force me/them)? :)

    Do you realize that the trade-off for allowing us to be jacks of all trades is that we don't need to create alts as we would in most MMOs?

    -1
    Posted 5 months ago by Janitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I would like to be more co-operative than I am."  When I've tried, it's been a big investment of effort (inescapably: coordinating efforts with other players is an effort) and it's felt forced 

    Because, really, I could write a bunch of notes and mail and IMs to try to get the sparkly I want, or I could just go mine it - probably faster than an auction frog will bring it, plus I get iMG for doing it.

    So, yeah, I'm in the camp of "Glitch feels like a solo game with chat."  So: it's KoL in color.  And it has the potential to be so much more.
    Posted 5 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As someone who plays both games (KoL for almost 7 years now), this game is DEFINITELY NOT KoL in color.

    I play both games very differently based on the fact that I see them as entirely different types of games, it also seems that you see them as similar because of how you play them. If you play Glitch the way you play KoL then of course you would feel that forced interaction is the only way to get people to play with you.

    If you want to connect with anyone via your computer how do you do that if not through email, IM or posting on a social site? If leaving notes, utilizing chat and sending mail seem like a "hassle" to contact other players in Glitch, can you give me an example of how you want to connect with other players other than through having the (current) game design altered? Can you give me an example of an MMO wherein you have encouraged cooperative play (like mining bonuses for mining together, coins that respawn quickly with limits to collection abilities to discourage too much "camping", the ability to use player created systems (like HRR) to name a few), whilst allowing singular play, that does not involve killing stuff?

    I don't want you to change the way you play the game if you are happy with your method, why do you want everyone who is happy with the current system to play the way you do?
    Posted 5 months ago by foolbunny Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't see a lot of of support from a wide range of glitchen that TS ought to change the game to force more specialization. TS already has incentives for specialization (the long time it takes to learn all the skills, plus the large number of different ingredients to gather if you try to make many different advanced resources.) Our busy AH is ample evidence that many glitchen do indeed buy stuff from others rather than collecting or making every item.

    Forced specialization has a few very articulate supporters, and I hope those people will find ways to make themselves happier in Glitch without demanding that a much larger number of other players has to be made less happy.

    ETA Remember when grinding out Proper Rice and donating it was the fastest ticket to get up to level 60? Remember how much fun that was (not) grinding out Proper Rice every single game day? TS very wisely nerfed that advantage because players have more fun in game when they do a variety of different activities. I don't think grinding on mining all day long would be much more fun than grinding out megaboatloads of Proper Rice was.
    Posted 5 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink