Topic

Hopes for more peace and good will in Wickdoon Mood

On a deadend street very near my house in Groddle Meadow, 4 wood trees were long ago planted in the 4 tree spots by a group calling itself Wickdoon Wood Preserve. Recently, some kind of wood tree war has broken out with a couple of avatars poisoning all the wood trees in Glitch, including those on Wickdoon Mood.

Anyway, people in WWP (a group that now includes me) have been hearing a lot of feedback form the community about wood trees on Wickdoon Mood. Obviously people with wood quests like to be able to find at least one wood tree in very good condition somewhere. On the other hand, a street with only wood treees means that pigs will starve unless fed.

I proposed to the WWP group, and so far everybody in the group liked the idea, that in the future we try to keep 3 wood trees only in Wickdoon Mood. When I say "try to keep" I mean that other players obviously also have quests to kill trees, plant trees, etc. Other players have just as much right to poison a wood tree and replace it with another bean tree as I have to poison a bean tree and plant a wood bean, on any public street in Glitch including Wickdoon Mood.

So I can't dictate to anybody what trees they should or shouldn't poison, but I personally would like to respond to those who worry about hungry pigs while keeping a few wood trees in good condition in one public and predictable deadend street.

///Correction (see below): I was mistaken: Wickdoon Mood got its wood trees before any group formed to promote them. See for instance www.glitch.com/locations/LC...

Posted 12 months ago by Dotcom Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • you know, you (the wood group) made your position really, really clear: you get to decide that the street will be all wood.

    i made my position very clear: you do not get to decide.

    i said that if you continued to decide for all of us that i was going to take graduating retaliatory actions in opposition to your stated goal of preserving trees because if you are really about preserving wood trees, it would be a bargaining chip. since your group is REALLY about control and not wood trees, you have allowed me to continue wholesale the killing of wood trees everywhere i can find them.

    you can like or not like my action, but there is no point acting all shocked and surprised that i have done what i said i would do.

    this morning i performed a little experiment: i went into wickodoon, killed one of the wood trees and palntes a fruit tree, leaving it 1-1-2. within minutes it was back to 1-3, which tells me that the "preservation" group is really still about deciding for the rest of us what can and cannot be grown in a public street, only NOW they're decided that the "proper" configuration is one bean and three woods, which is just as bad as deciding for the rest of us anything else, only they can pretend this is a sign of goodwill.

    it would have been a good sign early on in the dispute, but now it is far too little, too late.

    i will continue to perform small experiments. if i feel there is some kind of flexibility or lack of partrols or quotas, you will see wood trees living longer wherever they are. the wood trees that are alive in the world are not alive today because i am offline; they are alive because i am considering this progress toward a chilly detente.

    do not use the numbers of tyranny of majority to try and bow me. first, tyranny of majority is still tyranny. second, i am not alone. i am the loudest and most extreme, but i am but no means alone in this and if you feel very strongly that you SHOULD continue to dictate for all of us what can and cannot be planted in a public street, you go ahead and counter me. i can only speak for myself since we are not a group, not even an informal one.

    but as for me, i will keep grinding at this until liberty is restored to the streets or until the end of time. therefore the burden of deciding how rare wood trees will be rests with you.

    just try giving up control of that street and see how they will flourish!
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, you just did call me a moron, silly.   ; )

    Like I said earlier, go there yourself people and see which side speaks the truth. This thread really is almost comical when you compare it to the reality of what it is supposedly describing.

    It's too bad there isn't a little counter that displays next to people's names here on the forum showing how many times they have legitimately been reported.
    Posted 12 months ago by Melting Sky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All the dramas are amusing.
    Posted 12 months ago by Ernest Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Melting sky: no, I did not call you a moron. I have no idea what you are really like. Commenting on how some might perceive you is not the same as me directly insulting you. 

    I have legitimately been reported once. any other times nothing came of it because it was in no way legitimate.

    Just remember, anything I have done in Wickdoon, members of the group and many others players before them have been doing regularly. somehow I am the bad guy and they are all saints....
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • how do you know what constitutes a legitimate report? staff does make these things public and just because YOU feel aggrieved and report someone does not make it a legitimate report.

    likewise each time a person does something (oh, i don't know, like calling me a "fucking idiot") doesn't mean it gets reported. it would have been a legitimate report had i chosen to make it, but i don't see the point in annoying the staff with sandbox whining.

    you were all full of bravado and taunts when things were going well for you. now just swallow hard and take your lumps.

    give up control or give up wood trees.

    i am irritated with this conversation; i think i will go kill all the wood trees in a random housing block. *throws dart at map*
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think it's also random to have two pigs on my block named rook which will die because of the wood trees (that I did not plant) there unless I feed them.
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hi Rook, you need hand moving some piggies?

    I can give them a nice home.  : )
    Posted 12 months ago by Melting Sky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • it wouldn't be random, but i could take care of that for ya...
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would say that somebody should give this girl a hug but the last time I made that comment in this thread they deleted it for some reason and I was called a "bully" for saying it.  lol

    PS   Intentionally starving piggies isn't going to make your hate go away.
    Posted 12 months ago by Melting Sky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't 'need' feed them or move them. But, I do feel that they will feel comfortable in my humble abode. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm kind of worried about all the ghosts I've been eating in pacman, at first it was cool but then I wondered if one of them was my grandfather
    Posted 12 months ago by mouldybum Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just to be clear, the 3-tree suggestion on this thread was NOT in response to the many threats and ever-changing demands that I should change my behavior to do only what somebody else wants me to do. If Tiny Speck lets 2 vengeful avatars keep on destroying all the wood trees in Glitch, it's their problem not mine. This morning there were 3 wood trees not 4 on Wickdoon Mood. Wood trees elsewhere were killed as fast as they sprouted. I didn't cause it, I don't control it, and it's not my job to fix it.

    I feel sorry for the new avatars whose quests are harder, hope TS finally decides to fix the problem but it's not my problem. I enjoy planting trees and meeting people in Wickdoon Mood. I suggested a slight change in what I was planting, and what others in my group were planting, to accommodate a few REASONABLE people whose opinions I valued.

    Furthermore, things are not "going badly". On the contrary, the more Austin-Powers-villain ranting and raving about how people everywhere must suffer to pay for somebody's past misery, the more people who come to Wickdoon Mood and give me presents of wood beans or fertilidust that they have bought or made and tell me to keep up what I'm doing.

    So feel free to keep ranting and poisoning. Maybe TS feels you're adding value to their game. Hey, I hear the Cubimal Trading group enjoys ... trading cubimals. I look forward to hearing how that behavior offends somebody so deeply that they have to post alts in front of Bureaucratic Halls to paralyze incoming new people with Sneezing Powder. That would make as much sense as the wholesale wood tree poisoning going now.
    Posted 12 months ago by Dotcom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • you are one of the tree poisoners so what exactly are you talking about ^^

    oh thats right, it is morally ok to kill bean, fruit and bubble trees but a heinous crime to kill a wood tree.
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yeah, i know you guys keep going on about that people giving you presents thing.

    it delights my soul when i go to poison a tree and someone comes and gives me presents, too. i just don't keep going on about it as if somehow somebody tossing something they can get for free at your feet serves as a referendum on it.

    but sure, whatever.

    edit to add: you keep talking. i had thought that the recent changes were a sign of detente, but apparently i was mistaken. that's ok by me. you will either quit deciding what may be planted in a public street or i will get rich working against your stated aims of preserving wood trees.

    i'm ok with getting rich. it's not better than freedom of the streets, but it's a pretty good consolation prize.

    sorry if i interpreted your changes in the street to be progress toward peace. i have to go kill wood trees now. thanks for all the fertilidust.
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The streets are just as free to you as they are to me, just as free to me as they are to you.
    Posted 12 months ago by Dotcom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yep.

    you are free to maintain control, and i am free to resopnd to that control.

    you and your little club can go be all decide-y on us, and i will get very, very rich off of you.

    when you make more wood trees and dust them up, that's more money for me. when i have killed them all, that's less control for you. either way, i'm happy.

    you? not so much.

    otherwise why would you start ANOTHER whiny wickodoon thread?

    you keep making them, i'll keep setting the record straight. you keep making yourselves the arbiters of what gets to be planted in streets and i'll subvert it any way i can. it will keep you busy until the end of time and i'm having a marvelous time becoming obscenely wealthy.

    and as someone pointed out elsewhere, it keeps you in a concentrated area, where you can't spoil the atmosphere for the rest of us.

    ETA: every time there's a spark in this thread, there's a corresponding rise in my income.
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well then, if you are happy and I am happy, I am sure we must both be full of the spirit of Christmas. Amen, and God bless us, every one.
    Posted 12 months ago by Dotcom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let me see if I've got this straight:

    1. Because the people who want 4 wood trees on Wickdoon formed groups, they are right and those who don't want 4 wood trees are wrong because they did not form an official group.

    2. Approximately 100 people want there to be all wood trees on Wickdoon. This is clearly a majority of the 70,000 plus people playing the game.

    3. Because the 'majority' of 100 players voted to make Wickdoon a wood preserve, everyone else must accept and abide by that decision. In fact, everyone should actively support it.

    4. It is not the group of 100 or so players who are trying to decide what goes on in that street, it is everyone else, particularly those who disagree with said group.

    5. Anyone who does not want 4 wood trees on Wickdoon and who does not want a "majority group of 100" making decisions for them, is defined as a troll or a griefer or worse.

    I think I've got it. Thanks for clarifying it.

    Edited to add: 6. Anyone who does not agree with said "majority of 100" is assumed to be illiterate, or stupid, or possibly both.

    Thanks, I forgot that one.
    Posted 12 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Amen Audaria.  
    Posted 12 months ago by jellybean4r2 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is possible that some of use do not know how interpret what we read when put in front of us, and choose what we like to read.
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well said dotcom

    Moar drama plz k ty

    PS will be happy to sell uz many tree seed n poisuns!!

    PPS how haz this thread escaped Godwin's law???
    Posted 12 months ago by Sturminator IX Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The point of this thread was to suggest that the people who had been planting four wood trees start planting not-four wood trees. Most but not all of the people who had been planting four wood trees agreed.

    I don't control you or any other person who plants trees wherever. But I have an equal right to plant what trees I want anywhere. As you point out, there are about a hundred people who want to plant wood trees in Wickdoon Mood. We are not oppressing you by planting what we want any more than you are oppressing us by planting what you want.

    Most any tree spot in Groddle Meadow shifts its nature among bean, fruit, and bubble or (very rarely) wood. Nobody who plants a fruit tree on Buckward Vale or Estevan Meadows demands to come back tomorrow and find the same fruit tree. If the person still wants a fruit tree but finds a new bean tree, the person has many options aside from declaring a pvp war against oppressors who planted a bean tree in that particular spot.
    Posted 12 months ago by Dotcom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How many more of these trolling threads will we have to endure?

    This one's gotten to four pages.  Woo.  Woo.

    nice troll, dotcom.  gratz.
    Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What is this? I don't even..
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We are masters of the Universe!
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Third time. prntscr.com/4zvhg
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • so you like the new location of the bean tree? 
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • woot! ka-ching!
    Posted 12 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Rem, I'll check how it fits with feng shui
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I fail to see how ONE person deciding what's best throughout UR is morally superior to a small group deciding what's best on one street.
    Posted 12 months ago by Fluxan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I fail to see how a small group has a right to decide what is best on a street and abuse others that think differently.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You been on that street how many times? You've sorted your problems with the abusers via chat how many times? You had to block and report people how many times?
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Fluxan: no-one is decided what happens throughout Ur, most houses have a spot you can grow wood trees. one or 2 quests are not vital to progressing in glitch so the "wood is vital to newbies" argument holds very little weight, and last of all, anyone can plant wood trees and it really isn't that hard to find one still alive.

    if people wanna kill all the wood trees to choke the market, that is good business sense.

    using bullying tactics, abuse, and working as a large group to maintain control over one small zone is reprehensible. if it was just a group of nice players planting wood there when they can and accepting that others will come along and replace them, fair enough. but it isn't. 

    I accept that the wood tree group got put in an awkward position by the more aggressive vocal members who have repeatedly been abusive both in wickdoon and here on the forum but their actions led to other players countering with their own actions. but players can still counter the killing of wood trees in many ways, they could get creative for sure, but it doesn't seem like any of them are interested in that solution, they want everyone to bow down and except that Wickdoon Mood is a wood preserve. it isnt gonna happen so why keep trying? clearly they love the "battle", love being in control, love dominating other people and love being praised by those who do like it being a wood preserve. 

    Pure egotism. end of story.
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's remarkable the lengths to which people can fabricate narratives in which they are the true heroes.
    Posted 12 months ago by Holgate Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Holgate: yeah if they didn't, would never of been any drama.

    but hey, the wood preserve group wanna impose their will on everyone else while claiming its for the good of the community and here we are. awesome post Holgate, you really hit the nail on the head
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not a crime to kill a wood tree, and it's not a crime to plant one either. The trees in Wickdoon Mood are there so people will have access to wood trees- the two players who make a big deal of killing them for profit are using them for their intended purpose.
    Then the wood tree people will plant more, because they want to. It's not rules or control or taking away liberties or whatever people are calling it, it's just planting trees.
    Can everyone please just stop fighting?
    Posted 12 months ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • just woke up, it is 4 wood trees in Wickdoon Mood :(
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lol, after trying to wipe the street and attempting to put 4 bubble I guess the community wanted it back.

    @psibertus saw this after six minutes of you posting: prntscr.com/50n7x

    prntscr.com/50n8b
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No way is it fresh or are you to be seen. prntscr.com/50nfn
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I planted that bean and dusted before I posted. sorry for not clarifying that.
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok ty.
    Posted 12 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Blanky, I see a lot of personal he-said she-said bickering after you made the inexplicable rule that posters can no longer identify who they are responding to if there is the slightest chance you might personally perceive the intent as to insult.  Are those posts apparently ok just because they use the word "you?"

    We have no reply function, so we put names in our posts.  Lock threads if they're a problem.  Don't render them nonsensical because people identified who they responded to.  It has had no effect but to make this thread completely useless instead of next to useless, and the insults and tough talk continue several days past your interruption.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "using bullying tactics, abuse, and working as a large group to maintain control over one small zone is reprehensible"

    Using bullying tactics and abuse is indeed reprehensible.

    Working as a group to maintain a certain type of resource in an area is both permissible and sometimes strategically advantageous. It is no more against the rules or spirit of the game than working as an individual to thwart such an intention, or than harvesting at will in a community garden, or trying to make currants off selling poison or antidotes while the tree war rages.

    Why do you approve of "smart business tactics" by an individual but disapprove of a group organized to work toward a shared goal? As long as neither is 'griefing' as defined by TS and only TS, then they seem equally appropriate.

    And it seems to me that there's egotism aplenty to go around.
    Posted 12 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • if there are enough people to maintain a street full of wood, so be it. it is their choice to do so. 
    if there are people who want to try and plant something else there, it is their choice to do so. 

    what is the point of attacking each other on either choice?

    isn't the problem that personal feelings are getting hurt and resulting in escalation? how about denouncing (and booting if applicable - i'm not sure if you can boot people from a group...) offenders who insult people?

    group hug? please? 

    as for the lack of availability of wood trees, i keep wood trees in my house for this exact reason :)

    edit: i'll say it out loud. there are times in life when everybody needs to take a step back. this argument is over trees in an online game. my goodness. some battles must be fought. this isn't one of them

    i know that, as a stubborn person, i enter heated arguments with weapons drawn. my first instinct is to support my views, no matter how convoluted and just-plain-wrong the reasoning might be. i'm sure everybody here is a nice person. forgive, move on. please

    edit 2: does anybody actually want to go down in glitch history as 'that girl/guy arguing in the 4+ page long drama thread'? i mean, really. really?
    Posted 12 months ago by Core Dump Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Pascale: I do not object to the group doing it, I object to them abusing others who do something different in the area that the group has "claimed". I never stopped them doing anything.
    Posted 12 months ago by psibertus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I propose to make a group for every tree type(except egg plant), every group will have high level people with many resources.

    Then we all fight for the control of Wickdoon Mood.
    Forget about the giants, the true war is going to begin now!

    (That's a joke, hope it doesn't happen xD)
    Posted 12 months ago by AbelC Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Saucelah

    Directing a polite response to someone is not against the rules.

    What has been against the rules (unofficial in alpha/beta, official since the CG were posted after launch) is the 'no fingerpointing' rule.  

    In the CG it is expressed as: " But calling out another player in the forums or public channels and organizing people to bully them is itself a kind of harassment and will be moderated as such."  

    Generally what we've seen moderated are posts that describe behavior that is disliked by the poster, with a specific player name attached as the perpetrator, often with adjectives that call the behavior griefing or thievery or worse.  Finger-pointing is what will get your post edited, not simply using another person's name to attract their attention.

    In this thread, flaming another person using their name has been edited.  Whether or not that made this thread "completely useless" is questionable.  There's a fair amount of nonsense being spouted, with or without the names. I'm not sure that 'useful' is a term that can be applied here.  

    Blanky removed the fingerpointing and reminded people about the rules.  That at least makes it clear that directed, specific personal insults are still against the rules and that staff will step in to maintain those rules.  I think that is an important message.  

    I also think it is commendable that they didn't lock the thread entirely and have let people express the anger, frustration, and other unlovely emotional responses that this "war" has evoked.  Staff are walking a fine line along the 'play nice' rule, and I think this thread is a good example of it.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To those asking why this conversation rages on: I continue to participate in hopes of defusing the anti-tree-management rhetoric.  I fear that were I not to chime in, lurkers might be swayed to accept the unchallenged propositions.

    One Glitch wrote, "I fail to see how a small group has a right to decide what is best on a street and abuse others that think differently."

    The implied assertions are: 

    1) That there has been abuse in the name of tree management.

    2) That cooperating with like-minded Glitchen is bad.

    3) That controlling the distribution of trees on a street is bad.  

    Whether 1 is true or not, it is not an issue of tree management.  It is an issue of abuse to be handled the same way you would handle any other abuse: block and report.  If anyone has abused another player in the name of anything, that is reprehensible, but has no bearing on the debate.  If in real life a person were to detonate a bomb in a huge crowd in the name of ending slavery, that action would be criminal but would have no bearing on the question of whether we should tolerate slavery in the world.

    Point 2 is not really salient to the issue at hand either.  Organization around a goal is neither good nor bad.  It is only the activities of the individuals which can be judged.  Individuals can organize around positive or negative goals.  Their decision to work together neither justifies nor condemns their behavior.

    On to point 3: control of tree distribution.  The anti-management voices seem to claim that it's fine to change the breed of tree in one patch once, but to repeatedly restore a particular set of patches to the same breed of tree is unacceptable behavior.  To rewrite the original quote without points 1 and 2 included, "What right does a Glitch have to decide what is best on a street?"

    Aren't we all deciding what is best on every street all the time through action or inaction?  Is it only right to change the tree in a patch in order to complete a quest?  Where does it cross the line to offensive tree management?

    I hope it is clear that street stewardship is not an imposition.  All Glitchen are still free to play the game as they like.  They may even play a game of "interfere with the Wood Tree Hippies," and be well within their rights while doing it.  If there is abuse, it must be stopped, but maintaining a grove is not itself abuse.

    To answer the question as re-written: We all have the right and duty to decide what is best for every street.  We may not agree on what is best, but we should certainly discuss, decide and act on that decision.  This world is here for us to do with as we all like.  If we don't do anything with it, we are turning aside a beautiful gift.

    (Thank you Giants!)
    Posted 12 months ago by Crag Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you for elucidating our shared perspective, Crag.

    It is fascinating, if a tad dismaying, to watch entrenched hostilities develop and propagate. If this sort of thing develops so easily in an environment of abundance and non-violence, no wonder brokering peace negotiations (between aggrieved parties who have been that way for centuries ) IRL is so incredibly difficult.
    Posted 12 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's just like the public herb gardens. With the cultivators vs the people who take that which they cultivate. Very similiar dynamic.

    It's a very easy way to grief people intentionally and then argue its a freedom issue when infact its really just some people who derive pleasure from harming the feelings of others and making them angry.

    With the herbs there is also the element of greed although here these people claim to be getting rich doing it as well so I guess perhaps it also applies here.
    Posted 12 months ago by Melting Sky Subscriber! | Permalink