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Open Date/Time
Any clues?
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Well, the relationship between the developers and the players is mutually beneficial. They give us a fun and free game to play, and we provide them with free testing and feedback.
In Ye Olden Tymes, software companies had to actually pay teams of testers and only had one shot to finalize a product before it shipped.
Now everyone from Google to Microsoft puts out incomplete projects and gets the world to do their testing for them for free. In theory, this leads to better software, since all sorts of user needs can be taken into account and a huge test base leads to discovery of bugs that wouldn't otherwise be noticed.
It's a strange relationship. Obviously we have no reason to feel entitled to make demands, but the devs also shouldn't take us completely for granted. Of course, when we post pages of "OMG OMG give us more crack!" messages, it's pretty easy to not take us terribly seriously.
All that said, I think they've been handling things pretty well, and even not giving us clear information is worthwhile information for them to gather. If they want to shop an IPO around, those OMG messages provide pretty convincing evidence that they've secured some dedicated eyeballs and shouldn't have much trouble collecting more.
I'm curious as to what their long term plans are for making the game sustainable. There's a lot of nerd salary to be accounted for in that meeting photo, and currently they're pouring a lot of effort into this project with (I imagine) not a whole lot of return on our part.
What's the plan? Advertising? We have to figure the majority of players will continue to play for free, consuming not insignificant resources. Will subscriptions be enough to keep the project afloat?
It seems likely that they'll have to continue to employ a number of technicians and content generators or they'll lose most players. Maybe a handful of nerds and a third-party server farm aren't all that expensive. This is kind of a niche game, which means a smaller player base, but also lower expenses.
Kind of interested to see where all this is going.
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I have been kinda wondering how they're going to make revenue for a while... There are subscriptions, and there are all those wardrobe items that can only be purchased with credits... Is that really enough though?
I sure don't know. But Smurf's Village sure looks pretty successful (at least it did in 2010), Runescape is raking in the dough (also 2010), and City of Heroes is also set to embrace the free-to-play model later this year.
Of course, not every free-to-play game is a success story... But that's why Glitch is being tested like this, right? To see how much fun people are having and see if they'd actually be willing to pay for hats or maybe even a subscription.
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It's not that we're entitled or that they owe us anything. The issue is, really, how the communication this time around was handled. It all spun a bit crazy, but it's fairly easy to see how and why.
I'm relatively new (4 tests) and each "see you soon" has been 3-5 days. I don't know how long that's been the case, but that's become the recent baseline for "soon". The actual tweet after the test was "... we'll see you real soon for more!"
So to hear rumors that some had knowledge of the 12th was frustrating... it begs the question as to why they tell some people but not all. If they knew enough to make that knowledge semi-known, why did they make "real soon" their public statement? That somewhat contradictory information (10 days vs an easy to assume less than 5) between official source and rumor was obviously going to create confusion and frustration.
When the rumor came out, I think most accepted it as fact. But the "real soon" statement created a bit of hope that kept folks wondering and hoping. And checking in frequently enough to become frustrated when that hope didn't come to fruition. It was only made worse when Pepper Rose came back and reiterated the "real soon" when she told us she'd have more for us then.
It could be argued that's the tester's fault. They shouldn't assume. They should be grateful for whatever they get. They are, after all, just testers. It's Tiny Spec's world and we just live in it. But over and over again, Tiny Spec has made it clear that's not how they see things - both in their statements and actions.
While I do think this is a problem and that it's their fault and not ours, I don't hold this kerfluffle against them. I hope that's true for everyone here. I think it is. But it's still valuable for them to hear and see the complaints. As testers, sitting back and shutting up isn't what they are asking us to do. This was a customer service oops. And as far as customer service oops goes, if this is the worst it ever gets, then they're heads and shoulders, knees and toes above just about everyone else out there. But they need to know the issue and how people feel about it so that they can learn and improve.
Plus, as long as it's respectful (and, more, that we're respecting each other), the venting is harmless. Would it be nicer if we were spending our time updating the wiki, creating fan art, and joking around? Absolutely! And, next time, hopefully we'll know enough to avoid the anxiousness of "will it be today?!" to distract us from such things. A simple "not today, maybe tomorrow, probably a few days" (or next week, if that's the likely case) would work wonders in managing our expectations.
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@Biff, Liridona...they have already gotten a couple of investments ($5 million then $10 million). So there's that. And um...er...flickr sale to Yahoo! for something like $30-35 million...maybe that has helped, could be that company somewhat sustained/begun by some of that money. Possibly. Not sure. Guessing. stoot has mentioned Glitch lasting 10 years before (oy, no way I could trawl forums to find one tiny reference, but I HAVE seen it). Again, bit of a guess but I think they may have plenty to sustain things for a while and/or plan on some more investments (but supplemented maybe by ads, subscriptions....?).
I guess I trust that the guys behind flickr probably have serious business chops :)
Oh, and Biff, interesting points. Thanks for posting those!
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+1 imbri ;-)
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Now that I think of it, even the old FS system would have been more profitable than Glitch. We may not have avis with hundreds of clothing demands, but there was a ton of cool stuff the spend, spend, and spend on, the biggest one being fauna space. But then, maybe Stoot here had treated this like a living investment. They'll need to spend a heck of a lot of $$ to get it up first, but eventually they'll probably push out a ton of features that would guarantee us spending, spending, and spending. But without careful nurture, there's no way you could even hope to make a cent.
Side note: You know, FS could be pretty profitable with a few tweaks. All it needs is dedicated gamers, friendly staff and the game itself, which is pretty darn fun though it might need a few tweaks. Plus, the game template itself is probably ready made, just waiting to be bought over. Provided they didn't already delete it, I'm fairly sure BFG might sell it. Just, you know, have to do some stuff. Or something. And with Glitch running beside it......... TS could turn into a MMO giant.
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Everyone cannot be pleased. Some people want updates on when the game when be open next, whereas I would prefer them to get much more work done so it is closer to going live then to spend so much time planning/executing/ensuring we all know the next time the test will be open. Stoot said that the tests account for 52% of the time, and that means only 48% is really dedicated to perfecting the game, cause once the tests are open not as much work can get done. Just my opinion that I don't mind waiting or not knowing when the test will open because if I don't hear about it, or its going to be a long time, that's good in my eyes...lots of work is getting done (I think).
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This: "And for those that have already paid money for a sub, don't you feel like you deserve a little better? I'm just asking."
The subscription buys you: teleport tokens, credits and votes. That's it. It does not buy you game access at all, in any way. And the amount we've spent certainly pales next to the millions they've received from investors, so if we're going to use money as a whip, than it makes more sense to say they are beholden to their investors before us (just arguing a point of logic, not saying they don't care about us - they do). And yes, I did buy a subscription and no, I don't think they owe me anything more than what that sub promised.
So, I think the angst is a fail of any one player's expectations rather than Tiny Speck's. Everyone's home page does say, after all,
"Glitch is still in beta! So...
The game will sometimes be unavailable."
That said, I do think a lot of angst is driven by the fact that not only do people love the game (yay), but it's also only open at certain intervals and players are willing to rearrange their schedules to accomodate testing. In that sense, maybe a head's up makes sense until the day that they cannot come through as they thought they might and players go into a state of angst over it.
I'm more concerned that it seems like the world is opening to lots and lots and lots of new players (on the order of 1000s?), more of whom don't grok the whole beta-not-always-available thing than do. At some point, I fear that may flip to players talking up the game as 'inconsistent and not always playable' rather than as cool for what the game is. Or perhaps leading to undue attrition for those who don't come to the Forums and don't follow Glitch on FB or Twitter - for those players, when the game is open must seem hit & miss, more down than up. So, in that sense, it might make sense for a schedule of when the game is open/closed to be posted with the caveat that those dates are only tentative printed in blinking red text beside any dates (and on the home page, not in the forums).
But then, I have no privy to the business of TS itself, so rather than argue for this to be, I'm going to trust that they simply aren't ready to be in that stage of development yet, but that they are working toward a launch at some point.
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indeed zeeberk :-) indeed Laurali :-)
nice idea KitkatCat :-) no, great idea!
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What on earth could be so gosh-darn complicated that we have had to wait 10 days between tests this time...though????
Feeling hugely disappointed!
I agree...I was absolutely 'over the top with the above remark...my only defence could be extreme frustration. No excuse.
I do feel that we beta testers perform a valuable service....while some of us are just dabblers...there are some extremely dedicated testers amongst this bunch.
I am frustrated in my personal life ( need to have more surgery to reimplant the leads to my defibrillator...for the third time!!!!) and the need to escape my grief about the death of my son.
I am not looking for sympathy...I only said about them so that you might understand my need to bury myself in an escape route....but....again...no excuse for my rudeness.
I apologise to the entire community and developers for releasing my frustration in an extremely unproductive manner.
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Feck Cat - that is one tough life you have. Really sorry for you. I hope you find many interesting diversions to take your mind away from them if that helps you.
Take Care
Accy - with the easy life
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C. Cat - not that you need (or probably want) anyone's approval, I am moved to say that that was extremely classy of you. A huge hug and here's hoping we get out of beta soon so you have as much diverting Glitch as you want.
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I'm so sorry Cat, I wish you the best.
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I'm so sorry to hear about that, Cat. I hope you are getting all the support and nurturing you need IRL to get through this rough time.
That said, perhaps beta testing might not be the best therapy? It sounds like you need a dependable and constant source of escape available to you during your down days... there's another thread that talks about other games with some similarities to Glitch. Good luck and again, my condolences on your loss.
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Can I point out about subscriptions that the time on them doesn't start counting down until the game launches? (Unless I great misread the small print.) So everything 'til launch is gravy.
Clearly if there is a take away from this is:
1) Don't abuse the word "soon."
2) Many folks would like a clear note saying "We aren't sure when we are going to open again" as opposed to more playful language.
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I'm just happy to be here!
xoxo
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Thank you all for your kind words....I DO really love Glitch when it is up...but I have an amazing and wonderful husband and daughter,,,a rewarding career as an EA (school is out for the summer though ) and I work on my anvil creating jewelry and practising all my metal skills. This is not my only outlet for escape bit it fits the bill for a few (or more) hours everyday when it is open.
I am shy and it is hard for me to talk in these forums and in the game but I just plod along...playing and learning...thoroughly enjoying myself. The worst part of my physical problems is the constant reminder of my son Nicky's death. He had the same condition...undiagnosed like me. I can't get away from it...for love nor money! LOL
Bring on the 12th!!!!
So why is everybody else here????
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...what magical unicorn said.....
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Oh, Cassiopia (hugs)
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Huh. I hadn't considered the Smurfberry Model of income. I guess the Glitch analog for that would be paying to decrease skill learning time.
Of course, then you'd just blow through the game faster, and they have in interest in keeping players from burning out. Or maybe not. Perhaps they have graphs illustrating the optimal burn out duration.
I wonder what they told those multi-million dollar investors. It's not First Citiwide Bank (Volume!), so there must be a plan to raise money from actual customers. I guess there's enough data out there to make the case, but I wouldn't guess you could recoup millions...and that's probably why I'll never be a tycoon.
Anyway, I agree that giving us a rough ETA is reasonable, but the site sure is a lot stickier when the game could return at any moment. Once you're here, hey why not get involved on the forum?
If they said "Closing time! You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here! See you in precisely one week!" there'd be a lot fewer people here compulsively refreshing their browsers.
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@Biff: I need a definition on "Smurfberry Model" :) May I have one?
And Cassiopia_cat...just sending a lot of hugs your way!
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i miss Glitch :(
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Hugs to Cat
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The Smurfberry reference comes from the article Liridona posted. I'd never heard of the Smurf game before that (although the upcoming Smurf movie looks truly dreadful).
I suppose I should go suggest that links in forum posts appear more visible.
[Note that "the article" above is clickable.]
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Hello Penny Arcade comic on Smurfberries.
The news post that comes with it is a good read, too. In fact everything on Penny Arcade is a good read, and you should go start reading it if you like video games and the occasional neo-noir science fiction.
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@Cassiopa_Cat: players like you (who are a bit more shy and have a harder time talking in game) are the perfect example of why we should not get rid of trade chat! New players who aren't as outgoing will have a very hard time feeling comfortable coming into the world if it will be hard for them to meet new people!
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1+ Laurali
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Darn, Biff, I was away for two days and now the article won't open for me. Poo. So...any "brief" definition on offer? :)
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Here we go. For some reason Biff's URL had an extra 76d61696c2e636f6d at the end of it.
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Thanks, Liridona! Ugh on that...(meaning ugh on Smurfberry model) I don't see Glitch being that way at all...but maybe I'm being obtuse somehow...always possible:)
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Sorry for the bad link. Must have something to do with web tracking. I fixed it in my post.
Anyway, I could see how the model would work in Glitch. Paying to shorten learning times and such. That doesn't sound like the direction they'd like to go in, and would reinforce behaviors they say they're trying to discourage, but it would probably work in the short term.
A significant question is how long they expect the average player to stick around. Traditional gamers can easily blow through the existing content in a few weeks, even less if they were to buy the Smurfberries. Maybe it makes sense to extract as much cash out of those players as possible while they're still overwhelmed with all the quests and excitement.
People using the game as a glorified chat room are far more likely to hang around for a long time, but probably less likely to pay for features they won't use.
I'd love to be in on those discussions. I wonder what data they have from other MMORPGs. I still can't figure out how many service-oriented dot-coms make money, or if they actually do. Lots of them seem to have tons of potential, but no actual plan to solvency. At least not yet.
By the way, for those who are insistent on passing their spare time in front of the computer, Sporcle at least tickles the neurons a little bit. And you can also trick yourself into learning things, which is always a good deal.
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@korrd(and others): if you re-read my post there is no 'sense of entitlement' mentioned. Or were you refering to the respect...ok ya maybe a little sense of entitlement there.
And I'd apologize if I did in fact 'overreact'.
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So when are we playing? =}
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Yawn...
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Hey, Biff, thanks much! I'm thinking they're not going that way (hoping...fairly certain they don't want to based on things they've said), but I can see the allure for most businesses...you know, if taking candy from babies interests you...might go peek at Sporcle as I'm always keen to see other little fun things....
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@Biff: Thanks for sporcle referral! What a fun site----but very humbling too---seems---my neurons need more than tickling---lol.
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Hey! So, we're aiming for a 10 am PDT start. We'll be updating Twitter and FB as we open!
See ya tomorrow!
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Yay! Thanks Pepper! So, it'll be soon! ;)
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Awesome!! That's noon my time...very cool!! Ty Pepper!!
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Thanks Pepper_Rose. **does happy dance**
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Soon? That's not soon! Soon would be immediately after I refresh my screen!
;-)
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:D
Far soon enough for me! Maybe even too soon, as I do have to work all day. But hey, by the time it opens, I'll only have half a day to muddle through before I can play.
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Ugh.. So happy for everyone else.. but will be at work until at least 7 pm PST.. Oh well, guess I make it up on the end of test :)
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Thanks for the update Pepper_Rose.
One more sleep!!
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3 AM?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why does the game keep opening at some ungodly hour for me? Looks like I'm setting my alarm for 3AM tomorrow.
PS: PR, any tips on how long is it gonna be? Just wondering. TYVM for the opening time btw :)
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Thanks for the update Pepper_Rose :)
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10 AM? Hmm, I think I can make that...
So it really is the 12th, huh? Thanks for the update!
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KitkatCat, um, duhhhh, you need to move to North America since you play a browser game that runs from North America:) That would fix it all right up, eh? hehehehe
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@KitkatCat 1am for me ): I'm probably not going to sleep tonight...
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make it GMT please!-))))
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Lol 3am ... sigh... Somehow dont think Hubby would appreciate my getting up at the hour for a "computer game" .... Will have to wait till 8am to play!! :(
lol but might wakeup to set rock learning a new skill atleast!!!! :)