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#### Alts, Keys & Rules

There's been all kinds of crazy speculation about us suspending accounts which sign in from the same IP address or accounts created by the same person to play two separate characters. This is just crazy speculation: we have not done this, we have no plans to ever do it and it doesn't make any sense at all.
(I know there was a player who claimed they had two accounts, one of which was deleted an the other suspended, because it was the same person playing both: this is simply false. We don't publicly explain the private details of account suspensions or deletions but we always communicate the details explicitly to the player involved. And we almost never take any permanent action without warning the player and trying to work with them to improve the situation. If they then make up a story there's not much we can do … other than write a post like this ;)
Creating more than one character to play the game in a different way (e.g., another kind of persona, a different combination of skills, whatever) is totally fine with us. It can be fun! And, of course, playing with friends, family, roommates or whoever you like is encouraged. We do not use IP addresses for much more than diagnosing network problems: those who are saying that we will ban accounts which originate from the same IP address are just making it up. Ignore them.
However, we don't want people creating secondary accounts simply for the purpose of giving the real character an advantage they would not otherwise have or doing something which would otherwise be impossible.
So, to be explicit, this is not allowed: creating a secondary account, using the first character to give the new character the money to buy a house, having the second character buy a house and give a key to the main character and then just continuing to play the new character as one who effectively owns two houses.
I don't know all the details, but I understand that at some point last week, some guide or staff member (guides are player volunteers) said that it was ok to create a second account for the sole purpose of giving your primary account two houses. I apologize for the miscommunication and inconsistency: there's a lot going on all the time and sometimes we'll get out of sync and either not communicate everything internally or not communicate everything properly to the guides. We're always trying to improve and build better processes to discuss the ramifications of new features, but we will sometimes fail. When that happens, it's our fault and no player is going to be punished for it.
Indeed, we're not out to punish people for anything (other than the obvious: griefing, harassing and generally just trying to make life miserable for other players). And we do not just go around arbitrarily banning/suspending/deleting accounts — when we think someone is doing something they oughtn't, we proactively get in touch with them (with a question or a warning or a clarification of our policies, depending on the situation).
* * *
All feedback is welcome, but a time-saving bit of forewarning: if you are the type inclined to make arguments of the form "A is like B and B is like C and C is like D so you can see that A and D are really just exactly the same thing …" when A and D are obviously different, you'll be wasting your time.
(I went to grad school for philosophy and *literally* spent several months —months I will never get back, mind— thinking about how if you have a heap of sand and you remove just one grain, you still have a heap of sand … and yet at some point you'll get to the last grain of sand and obviously that's not a heap. It's kind of intellectually interesting for a while, but you're not going to convince us that creating a secondary account for the sole purpose of giving your main character another house is the same thing as playing Glitch with your spouse or friend.)

Posted 12 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink

### Replies

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- I agree dopiaza, this 'official clarification' needs to be added there.
  But the main point here is that behavior does not have to be specifically listed and forbidden in the TOS before Tiny Speck can do anything about it.
  They can apply whatever sanctions they want based on their own interpretation of the TOS, Community Guidelines, forum postings, or whatever staff conference results in the decision that the behavior isn't allowed here. A TOS does not have to explicitly forbid something for you to be held accountable for that behavior.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- I also have another question about this situation.... what if its not an alt? But a roomate using the same computer? You can't assume they're all alts and disable them and push people to revoke keys unless you know FOR SURE that its an alt.
  Posted 12 months ago by Marla Singer | Permalink
- @Imma Blitch
  From the staff post at the top of this thread:
  And we do not just go around arbitrarily banning/suspending/deleting accounts — when we think someone is doing something they oughtn't, we proactively get in touch with them (with a question or a warning or a clarification of our policies, depending on the situation).
  On the other hand they don't have to have court-room "for sure" proof. All they need is to do a reasonable investigation and use the information they find during their investigation.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- From the Glitch Terms of Service (last revised October 17, 2011):
  "In addition, when using certain services, you will be subject to any additional terms applicable to such services that may be posted on the Site from time to time, including the Privacy Policy located at www.glitch.com/privacy/ and our Community Guidelines located at www.glitch.com/guidelines. All such terms are hereby incorporated by reference into these Terms of Service."
  While I wouldn't object to an addition to the CG, I don't think the recent clarification via this forum is a change to the ToS. There will ALWAYS be room for interpretation, no matter how detailed a written policy may be. So we can either go all legal and have a big fail, or we can have dialog when a question arises. I give props to TS for their responsive and reasonable dialog.
  I also don't find it much of a hardship to check the forums once a week or so to see if there are any new Hot Topics or pinned Staff threads. Good way to learn stuff about stuff you'll probably want to know if you're into Glitch enough to be worrying about whether your gameplay may violate the ToS.
  Posted 12 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- Stoot specifically says in the OP that they try to warn about and improve the situation before taking any permanent action if it does look like a problem.
  To me that means: If TS thinks something looks like misuse, they will contact the people involved to figure out whether it is misuse, a misunderstanding that can be clarified (on either part) or a situation like you and others stated where it's a roommate or family member.
  There won't be random account disabling and key revoking without some legwork involved (also stated in the OP).
  If anyone is truly concerned about their specific situations, then send a help request to get those things clarified to your satisfaction. I'm sure TS will work with people and make sure they get the clarification they need.
  Posted 12 months ago by Little Miss Giggles | Permalink
- Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to shout out a nice "I told you so." to a few people. You know who you are.
  Also, I have to agree with Giggles above, TS staff is very nice at responding to concerns, as seen before :)
  Posted 12 months ago by QuinnR | Permalink
- "But the main point here is that behavior does not have to be specifically listed and forbidden in the TOS before Tiny Speck can do anything about it. "
  No, I agree. But equally, you can't expect everybody to be completely au fait with all the different nuances of interpretation of the ToS that get discussed in the forums - there are (intentionally) many grey areas, and the whole reason this discussion arose was that the exact interpretation was far from from clear. The Community Guidelines also aren't definitive, but their role is to express, in a relatively informal manner, an indication of the kinds of things that are (and aren't) appropriate. The CG is the perfect place to summarise the key points of this discussion, in a place that people could reasonably be expected to read it.
  Posted 12 months ago by dopiaza | Permalink
- I went to grad school for philosophy and *literally* spent several months —months I will never get back, mind— thinking about how if you have a heap of sand and you remove just one grain, you still have a heap of sand … and yet at some point you'll get to the last grain of sand and obviously that's not a heap.
  Kind of like how all horses are the same color? ;)
  Posted 12 months ago by Ryllyn | Permalink
- I think all of ya'll are getting a bit too worked up about it xP The nice people over at Tiny Speck won't delete or suspend your account without getting your complete side of the story first. And it's said clearly that you'll get a warning before any action is taken.
  They will LET YOU KNOW what isn't okay if they find you doing it. So relax :) Don't stress TOO much about what you're doing right or wrong. TS will sort you out if sorting is needed :) And they're fair :P
  Posted 12 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom | Permalink
- Stoot, I have tons of respect for you and your team, but I think these guidelines are going to end up causing you more grief than anything.
  Telling people they are allowed to use alts, but that they are NOT allowed to use these alts to gain an advantage is the worst kind of mealy-mouthed non-rule.
  Are alts allowed to swap keys? If a player plants something in a community garden, is an alt allowed to guano it and harvest? Are alts allowed to trade music blocks with each other in order to get achievements?
  This rule is a recipe for death by a thousand cuts.
  Posted 12 months ago by magic panda | Permalink
- I certainly don't disagree, but it seems like the real problem is that there is no way to (according to the game's current rules) own a house that can do both crops and herbs.
  Even if there was a little flowerpot you could plant (or convert a tree patch) so you could have a single plot of the other variety, it would take a lot of pressure off folks who might be tempted to use alts.
  Posted 12 months ago by Jigsaw Forte | Permalink
- In my philosophy department, we grad students debated for several months about the correct definition of a sandwich and whether or not certain paradigm cases, such as hamburgers, count as a sandwich.
  Needless to say, we did not come to any consensus about the matter. :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale | Permalink
- Meez Mike, what Windborn quoted comes from the Community Guidelines, which are, as Splendora quoted, included by reference in the ToS.
  Posted 12 months ago by Granny Weatherwax | Permalink
- I think it was Wittgenstein, who once said "A sandwich is just a sandwich, but a Manwich is a meal."
  Posted 12 months ago by magic panda | Permalink
- Sorry to Necro this thread, but I have seen some continued confusion from players about what is allowed. I was actually running afoul of this rule myself for several weeks until I happened to find out about it through general chat.
  In addition to bumping the thread, I am hoping that you could update the community guidelines to reflect this policy. Currently they only thing they say about alt accounts is that you cannot be logged in with two accounts at the same time. The policy described in this post is significantly more broad.
  Posted 11 months ago by Humbabella | Permalink
- what does bump mean? I have no idea. I see it all the time. Can I post bump in my threads that I want read? I know if I post, it will make it appear on the front page, is that okay? Wait, is bumping exactly that? Making the thread appear on the first page? Is that okay if I do it? (I'm going to do it, I see it all the time). Oh, and when was Alpha? Glitchmas wasn't that long ago, but I never received a yeti. How come?
  Posted 11 months ago by Avariella | Permalink
- @Avariella - It's considered bad form to bump your own threads.
  Alpha was the period when Glitch was first tested. The original Beta came after that. The yeti was given some time back to those who were participating in the original Beta during a holiday period (prior to 2011). This is the only time the yeti was given out, just as the reset after the original Beta was the only time Senor Pickle was given out.
  Posted 11 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- Splendora I would respectfully disagree. I would say, it's bad form to *excessively* bump your own thread (like posting every 5 minutes in it or something) but many times it merely ensures that a thread is not overlooked. I bump my own threads mostly in the Marketplace (hurrah for new forum! btw!) because sometimes people don't see threads at first. =)
  Posted 11 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ | Permalink
- It's bad form to bump your own threads.
  "Ensuring that a thread is not overlooked" is an attention-getting behavior that most people find annoying at best and rudely self-centered at worst.
  Everyone in the marketplace wants to be sure that people see their threads. That's the entire point of posting there. For one person to keep bumping their own threads to the most prominent position in the forum is self-serving.
  Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- So, getting back on topic here: Can we create an alt expressly for the purposes of stealth-bumping our own threads?
  That said, I figure "Bumpinator" would be a bad choice of nickname, were I to go that route myself....
  Posted 11 months ago by Sturminator IX | Permalink
- Question: how hard is it for someone to simulate that they use their alt accoubts in a legit way? Not very hard. You just keep learning skills, maybe nibble some piggies once in a while, donate crap, add random people and BAM! You seem like a legit player, at least when and if your account is looked over.
  I've never understood why games allow multiple accounts and expect users not to try to derive as much benefit out of it as possible. Most of us don't have multiple personality disorder, so it may be virtually impossible to play on two accounts in isolation.
  A game I've played for over 2 years, Smallworlds, allowed 5 avatars on 1 account. Another game, Business Tycoon Online, allowed you to create one business account per server for your overall email account. This game isn't even complex enough for people to even have a real reason to have separate identities/specialise, so why even allow alts?
  I, for one, will not be making one, as it seems too much of a grey patch to me.
  Posted 11 months ago by Trinitaria Starr ™ | Permalink
- WindBorn, you have never said a single thing in the forums that I agree with, ever. I respectfully am ignoring you now sir.
  :: tips hat ::
  As far as alts are concerned, I've played games that allowed them and games that don't and in both cases I can understand why the devs/mods chose to set it up that way for that game. I'm glad to see TS hasn't reversed their policy on this in the last month or so since this thread has been posted. =)
  Posted 11 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ | Permalink
- I won't lie, when i played Zynga games on facebook, i had two accounts. I was cheating, since i'm not a friend whore nor was i keen on spamming my friends to play... But I did indeed totally play both accounts. They never would have been able to tell if it iwas me playing two accounts, or two people in the same location playing. It. Was. Cheating. fully admit that. BUT i also got something out of the full gameplay with two different accounts, i got to enjoy games that had huge gameplay limitation making playing with two accounts worth it. I say this with the expectation of disaproval but at least a form of understanding. This is not justification, simply explination.
  All of that said, i don't have any alts here. I don't really get the point. Seeing this from both sides of the coin for a moment, if you are a cheater, other than the exploit to get both kinds of farming houses, you don't get anything out of it. There is nothing you can do on two accounts that you can't do with just one. other than collecting coins, or XP there is nothing that is limited - and even after that XP cap is hit for a specific action, you are restricted FROM the action. Since XP nor coins {note:i did not say currants} are transferable, having multiple accounts makes no sense.
  If you are doing it for legit reasons, well, I don't see any legit reason to have them. Because we don't really have specializations, the only difference in what your main or your alts could be would be the order in which they do the *same* stuff. Unless you hit level 60, with all achieves done, and are starting a new character allowing the old one to fade away... Which is what a lot of Alts in say, Warcraft, are for. If you are a roleplayer, play someone who has multiple personalities, lol, not multiple glitches. Since it is EASY PEASY to change your character's name, you don't even need to make a new character for special events, which i've noticed some people do.
  TL;DR - It would be far easier to just say "no alts" and try to crack down on that somehow, rather than leaving all that grey. There is no reason, legit or otherwise, for them to exist.
  ETA: off topic but, it is bad form to bump your own threads. That isn't to say i'm not guilty of it myself on the rare occasion, but yeah....
  Posted 11 months ago by Pixieyelsraek | Permalink
- I know several alts that are being played, openly, with TS staff full knowledge and encouragement, because the players are setting specific "rules" for how they'll play each one. Some interesting role playing going on as the players try to get each "character" to higher levels within the self-imposed constraints.
  There are legitimate reasons for alts to exist. TS recognizes those reasons and allows that kind of game play. Always has.
  Posted 11 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- My alt is actually antiquated in terms of skills, but I still play it every so often when I feel like playing in what I term as my "autistic mode," i.e. few people knowing I'm online. While I love my Glitchy friends, sometimes I need some "me time."
  Posted 11 months ago by Mal'akh | Permalink

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