Topic

Content doesn't scale into high levels well. This is a serious problem.

Before I say anything else, I should clear any assumptions of my motive. Glitch is the most well-designed game I've played all year. It's exceptionally smart and has an impish attention to detail that you usually see in well-written literature, but never in games. I have the rare feeling that I can be proud of a game I play and the community surrounding it, and not like an addict with a dark secret in his closet.

Having said that: with the way Glitch is right now, you can blaze through most of the game in a week, and probably finish everything in two. I've been playing for three days (granted, three days of a lot of free time) and I've already crossed the monotony line -- that point where you're out of "I have so much to do!" land and into grinding for big-ticket status items like houses. Compare this to other MMOs or even certain social games like FarmVille where the bar for reaching "you've done everything" is much, much higher, which is saying a lot since FarmVille is the epitome of a grind.

The monotony line is really, really low in this game. That is, if you think about when you were level 5, or level 8, you could level up simply by going around and doing things. There was so much to do. You had definite goals -- save up to buy a frying pan, for example. Then you're level 12, and there's a little bit less to do. By the time you're level 15, you can't just go around and quest anymore because the quests give a pathetic amount of XP relative to your level. The goals have less significance. You've acquired pretty much every significant tool in the game.

This is roughly the monotony line. It's where you descend into monotony -- your actions have less significance, your progress seems less meaningful, and you're just hoarding resources / grinding. As of right now, there aren't many meaningful quests I can go on or items I can look forward to buying. Quests stopped being useful at around level 15. Items stopped being a big deal at level 10 -- the most expensive item I can think of costs ₡2,500 and you can acquire that pretty early on. Compare that to something like WoW, where you had to work your ass off to get an "epic mount" and the gear you could get scaled well into the highest of levels.

The only big-ticket item that scales into the high levels are the ₡50,000 houses, and even then it scales poorly since one must go through a ridiculous amount of grinding to acquire that many currants. Ideally, you could just continue to do higher-level quests for even higher payouts.

On top of the lack of meaningful quests/items beyond the teens, it's very easy to feel like you've "seen everything" very early on. How many online games can you think of where you've explored almost every area by the 2nd day of play? Level 13 was the point when I had explored most of the world of Glitch, which simply doesn't happen in other online RPGs: there are low-level worlds, and there are high-level worlds. Glitch has no high-level worlds. Axom, who is level 23, is 13th on the "top travellers" leaderboards. This means that someone who has been playing for less than a week can see pretty much every area in the game.

All of this is a problem. 

Players do not start buying something like subscriptions or credits until they've played the game for a reasonable amount of time. In League of Legends, for example, I didn't purchase my first instance of "RP" (their equivalent of credits) until I had played for something like 60 hours. I spent money on the game knowing that I had already invested a lot of time into the game and would continue to invest more, so it made my time invested more enjoyable. Why will someone buy credits or a subscription when it's so easy to jump in Glitch and be done with it within a week or two? The time you would buy credits is the time when you've done most of the things to do in the game and have little incentive to keep playing.

Glitch has had millions of dollars invested into it. Clearly, there is some expectation of payback. If there is no incentive to keep playing well into the high levels (30-60), there will be less incentive to buy credits and Glitch itself could suffer as a result.

Posted 16 months ago by The Crepeist Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • this is a good point, and it is something that the devs are aware of and working to address.

    see this recent post (link) and in particular, stoot's response here (link).  this was a couple of months ago now, and i'm not sure where the later forum post is that he refers to , but yeah... that.  :)
    Posted 16 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What kat said, but it really is the community that keeps me here even when it gets grindy and when you stick your nose in you should find that there are lots of events.
    Posted 16 months ago by Ani Laurel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I find myself leveling up without even trying because I'm so busy in game that the XP just keeps adding up.

    This game is designed to give you a lot of flexibility and a way to create your own parts of the game.  For instance, most of today I've been creating "newbie bags" with milk, meat, grain, knife and board, seeds, guano, game ticket, music block, and drinks with buffs.  There are newbies all over the place, and if the only time you interact with them and give them things is in order to complete the quest, then you're missing a large part of what makes this game interesting.

    Apparently you haven't discovered projects or the rook attacks either.  Keep looking around, there's a lot more to discover.
    Posted 16 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Welcome to level 20, The Crepeist. This point has been brought up multiple times in the past, and the devs have responded with the fact that they have (up till recently) spent most of their efforts fleshing out the game for players up to level 20, and not beyond. Stuff to do for more advanced players is being worked on, and will continue to be added as time goes by.

    Please remember that this is still Beta, and there is ALOT more to come. You are comparing this game to other games that have been online for years, and I don't think that is fair. Just wait--there are surprises in the game right now that I bet you haven't discovered yet, and many, many more to come. The map is constantly expanding, so there will always be new areas to explore.

    I am a high level player (level 48) and still spend almost all of my free time on the game when it's on, and wish it was on when it's off. I do remember wondering how the game could possibly keep people's interest when I was around your level and the quests began to dry out, but I somehow got over it. I think this is due to the following: the huge barrage of quests at the beginning of the game makes people expect it, and come to think of it as the norm. It is a shock when this stops, and they must then try to figure out what to do with themselves without the Rock constantly telling them what to do. People that only like "start at point A and go to point B, then to point C" games will get annoyed and leave the game. People that like sand-box games that require them to explore and be creative will give the game another chance since they had so much fun with it before. The latter will discover non-quest related things to do in the game they never would have known existed otherwise, and be delighted in the fact that they have rediscovered Glitch on a whole 'nother level.

    Have you worked on street projects yet? If not, do it. This is highly popular with high level players, and is challenging no matter what your level. Have you been through the entire tower of Jethimadh? If not, do it--it's awesome. Also, there is alot of opportunity for you to make up your own goals and follow through on them. Devise some contests and get players involved with awesome prizes. Create a group and make up some interesting activities for your followers to do. Coordinate a party and see how many people you can get to attend. See how many butterflies you can flood a street with. Check out the emblems that are available in the game and try to get them all--good luck: it's hard. These are just a few examples.
    Posted 16 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for your replies, everyone.

    Not that anyone said this in particular, but I should clarify: this isn't, primarily, an issue on my part. I as an individual can find ways to make glitch interesting.

    I said this is a problem because glitch has to make the game appealing enough to large numbers of people for a long period of play time to make the player say "okay, I've spent a long time on here, buying credits won't be so bad."

    In other words: I like glitch -- a lot, in fact. I want to see it succeed, and this is an area that will stop it from succeeding if serious attention is not devoted to it.
    Posted 16 months ago by The Crepeist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe there is a problem in that everything in the game is available just when you start playing. You can go anywhere, learn any number of skills, buy whatever you want as soon as you get enough currants (which is pretty fast).

    Requiring such-and-such levels to do such-and-such things may sound artificial, but it probably is the way to go. When I started playing I felt there were too many things to understand, too many things to do. I would have appreciated some more time to get introduced to a lot of stuff. As crude examples: "get to level 15 before being able to visit the firebogs", or "reach level 20 before touching alchemie", would be good things in my opinion.
    Posted 16 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I agree. A casual player can simply leave their queue on for a week, having touched the game itself for maybe a few hours, and have the most lucrative skills in the game at their disposal. There aren't any high-level skills, nor high-level areas to use them in.
    Posted 16 months ago by The Crepeist Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 this is exactly why I'm not playing anymore. The game gets boring (and quite annoying) very, very fast.    Sorry, but you guys need a lot more depth before I'm hooked. 
    Posted 16 months ago by Slacy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I underwent the same process. At some point, the higher-level skills had such long waiting times that the quests (which are roughly introduced each time a new skill is learnt) dried up.

    My recommendation is simple: introduce quests for street projects / rook attacks / Jethimadh exploration once the player has 1) reached a certain level, and 2) is learning a skill that will take more than, say, two days to learn. Quests still feel like a simple and effective way to structure the late-game so the player isn't just left in the lurch to find things to do. That would take a great leap of faith for too many people.
    Posted 16 months ago by Otterlicious Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think Otterlicious has a good recommendation. There will be players that will love to go the sand-box route and figure out what they would like to do on their own. But then there will be players that like the theme park route and would love to have the rock tell them what to do. Keep the quests coming at a consistent rate beyond level 20. Then the player can decide if they want to ignore the quests and do their own thing, or keep following the rock.
    Posted 16 months ago by Nella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As the staff has said repeatedly, the game's content has only been built for players under level 20.  Higher-level content will be added after launch.
    Posted 16 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I always think of this scene from Mad Men when I hear people talking about boredom. I realize that we are all here to play and have a good time, but it would be impossible for the small group of developers to entertain every play all the time.

    When a player is bored with the game they have two choices, log off, or get creative. The best part about the Glitch community so far is their creativity. Throwing parties, sacrificing to the dragon, making out in the mines. We are as much of the experience and fun of other players as the game itself!
    Posted 16 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sacrificing to the dragon? Making out in the mines? Clearly I haven't been paying close enough attention, or maybe I just haven't been playing long enough!
    Posted 16 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol I stumbled onto a couple hanging out in a hidden portion of Ilmenskie deeps. I felt really uncomfortable… I was like "oh, uh, I'll just leave now, sorry."

    I'm saddened that you haven't made a sacrifice to the dragon! That will not make him happy!
    Posted 16 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol! re: the mining make-out

    Oh my! I've missed that street! This is why we need something to tell us which streets we've yet to visit! Forebearance O Dragon! I will make haste as soon as the game opens!
    Posted 16 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Audaria

    Try the Location Checker here
    beta.glitch.com/forum/gener...
    Posted 16 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks WindBorn, but I run IE, so it doesn't work for me. And I would like it to be in-game anyway.
    Posted 16 months ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink