Topic

more auction tweaks

I know there are a ton of these types of requests, but I didn't see one from a quick search that mentioned:

-Showing my auction history of items sold, not just bought
--I'd also like to be able to relist my auction if no one purchased it.

Posted 18 months ago by Dr007 Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Good ideas, if when you say re-list, you mean without new fees.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the idea of a direct 'relist' option... but truthfully, if it didn't sell the first time - I'm probably going to want to adjust the price.

    Why should you be exempt from listing fees when re-listing an auction? You put it up once, paid for the service... and either it wasn't popular or wasn't priced correctly. The item gets returned. Why shouldn't you pay for the service a second time? Not having the fees in place on successive auctions opens the 'perpetual auction' loop... let's sell my 100 gnomes for 10k each, over and over and over again... but only pay fees once. Mobile storage.

    You can see your 'items sold' on your home page, but it would definitely be more useful if it were included in the history. Even just being able to click the basket icon would be nice.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You guys are evil.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not evil, practical. I have a tendency to look at things in the big-big 100,000 player view. Money sinks are actually a good thing (especially in a world where money is relatively easy after a month of game time), closing holes for potential abuse early is even better.... and part of why we test.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's an awesome money sink. Give rich players stuff they just gotta have, that also costs a fortune. Make locked parts of the game only unlockable after a quest that requires an item that costs a fortune. I just don't like being nickled and dined on the small stuff
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • SG, maybe some day there will be a point to generating an excess of cash, but there really isn't. The game has meat on it until about Level 25, then it's flesh and bones to about 40, and then it's just bones. I know it's hard to fathom right now, but it took less than 20 minutes and 15 players to pony up 500,000 on part of a street project not very long ago. Since then, those same players have purchased 2 or 3 houses at 50k a pop... some of them even run a bank handing out money. Getting bogged down in one detail you've not really had a good run with yet is going to hold you back from the overall experience.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have nothing better to do ATM, than focus on this little detail. It excessively shuts those with the least out of the market
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Then maybe working up the skill tree and leveling up is your best focus right now.  If you're struggling to stay afloat, don't bother auctioning things.  Instead, donate that stuff to shrines for emblems, XP and favor to help you level up and learn more skills. Or just sell to a vendor if you need the currants for something.

    Energy, mood and currants are not that easy to come by at level 10 and under - you get just enough to keep you going.  Level 10 and above, things get much easier - you get more gains. Tweaking the game to make it easy at levels 1-10 isn't practical, since that's your training ground to get you hooked on what direction you want your character to take and familiar with how the game works.  The be-all-and-end-all of Glitch (well, there isn't one) isn't making and selling things - it's the experience of the world unfolding.  Making/selling is just a means to experiencing the world.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would rather do a game that starts easy and gets harder, or at the least is balanced across the levels. The level of challenge I feel at level 5 should be the same I feel at level 25.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I fail to understand how you feel 'shut out' of the market. There is nothing at all stopping you from putting things on auction but your own objection to fees. If you're looking to buy, rather than sell and you're feeling like the prices are all too high... 1) it should give you an indication how much cash there is floating around, and 2) it's probably something you can wait on. 

    So you can't afford a whole stack of Hot 'n' Fizzy and you only need 1... contact the seller. They're likely to send it to your for nothing.... ask in a Group.... ask in Global... drop a note... there are so many ways other than re-inventing the wheel. Rather than get grumpy about the high market prices, give the social aspects of this game a test drive.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not a simple objection. Sometimes, I just don't have the money to pay an upfront fee. I just have the item. I literally can't afford for that item to not sell. Even if I have the fee for some items.. I don't have the fees for everything. I must pick and choose.. and hope I get to sell. As far as buying.. if I have to go somewhere other than auctions.. ie ask in global chat for instance.. that IS shutting me out of the market!.. (since we agree, the auctions are the market).

    Lots of people are annoyed by ads. I am annoyed by wandering around aimlessly asking and begging people. I am sure once there is me x 15,000.... those people will be annoyed too.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It sound to me like you went overboard with your buying somewhere and are struggling to recover. Earn a level... it should give you ~1000 credits. If you're that hard up for cash, go sell it to one of the vendors and get your cash up front.

    Asking for something not on the market is in no way shutting someone out of it. Not asking is a choice you make. You are never ever forced to ask for another player to help with anything (except the races and peter-out-peat quests). If you don't want to ask for things all the time, perhaps you should focus your skills in that direction. It means waiting, which sucks, but that is a choice you make based on your play style and no way reflects the market's ability for you to take part in the market.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to Dr007 - love the idea to see my sold history...
    +1 to relisting my unsold items a bit more easily

    @SG, the game is extremely well balanced from start to about 20-30...focus on learning the basics of the game than grousing about fees in the auctions...they really really really aren't that bad - a previous game I played has a listing fee of 2%, so this is less than that.  I have a friend who is playing at level 8-9 and she's been posting to the auctions and not having issues, and frankly making good currants. 

    Reposting should require listing fees. And honestly, it might not have sold the first time because no one was looking for it, not because the price was too high...although in many cases, the price is too high...lol. The listing fees are nominal...1.5%...really, if you are going to miss that, then you have a bigger issue at hand.  Now the commission...that's a bit of a bite, but also good because I know players at the higher levels that need that kind of currant sink. If you are smart, pick and choose what you post to auctions vice just sell to the key vendors that return 70-80% of value, you can make really good currants here, for the work you put into the game. 

    And SG...I'd rather play a game that is balanced through all the levels...as I learn skills, it continues to be a bit of challenge, but not so much to turn me off to the game.  Easy then hard games can be a turn off to continue to the higher levels...have played them, and much prefer a game that is relatively balanced throughout but might be a bit more challenging as I move along so I don't get bored. Most easy then hard games are fun and exciting at the beginning and then mind numbingly boring grinds at the higher levels because they are sooooo hard to get to the next level. I love love love the balanced aspects of this game, though I suspect for those above 30, it might still be a bit too easy on the currant side until they catch the game up to the skills of the players at those levels...

    Looking forward to reset to see how everyone reacts to being at zero again...and curious as to how fast some of the more seasoned players get to the levels of 30+...I'm thinking a week or two...lol...
    Posted 18 months ago by b3achy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • SourGrapes, You don't seem to realize that there is so much more than a market (and auctions are not the only market - there are vendors).  if you ask in global chat for an item that I have or can make, I will likely mail to you for nothing (i did that many times this last test and I even bought two houses for people).  many of us are like that.  many aren't.  But you won't know anything about the social aspects of the game, about gifting, about trading, or any other stuff if you only see Glitch as a market and you feel shut out of it if it means you have to ask in global for something. 

    I noticed that you've had a couple auctions expire (it's on your profile), so I can understand that you're bummed to be out the listing fee, especially if you needed the cash.  But you could have chosen to just sell that item to a vendor for immediate cash or donate it to a shrine for immediate favor rather than wait how many days go by (when the game is closed, no less) for money to come in.  You don't need to participate in auctions to play the game... in fact, you might have more fun ignoring them until you get the hang for what tends to be in demand there. Visit a project (even if you have nothing to pitch in) to see how that frenzy works to get another feel for the game and to see what type of stuff projects want.

    It's great to point out issues with the game - it's why we're here.  I just disagree that it's too hard for the early levels to get by or that you're shut out of a market... it's not impossible, it's not even that difficult... it just gets easier as you get more skills under your belt.  I like that we're rewarded for experience in Glitch.  I'll be curious to see how or if your experience changes when the test re-opens and you get more time in the game.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • b3achy.. I like you.. I just do. When I said easy-hard, I didn't mean boring grind at upper levels. Argh, I hate that too. I do prefer balanced challenges throughout. I get the sense the game isn't currently balanced because higher levels are complaining they have more currants than they know what to do with (something I'm sure the team is working very hard on).

    And honestly, it might not have sold the first time because no one was looking for it, not because the price was too high...although in many cases, the price is too high...lol.
    I 100% agree, which is why I feel the new fees are very penalizing. It might have been too high, sure.. but too, the demand might not have been there that day. It may have been that after you posted, someone made many listings at below or near-below market value as well.

    I would be just fine with the listing fee, if there was no commission fee. I'd be fine with the commission fee if there was bidding. I'd also be fine with it if it was only paid when the item sells. BTW, I had an easier time at level 1 than level 8. 

    Also, I would be focusing on the game and upping my skills instead of complaining about auctions if it weren't for
    a) I can't play and up my skills right now, therefore can't focus on that....
    b) The auctions managed to severely piss me off only hours before the game closed
    c) I never died until I hit level 8, and was so busy trying to get some food that I missed the end of testing party because I was on the auction page looking for some food I could afford that was better than fish.
    d) Again, the game has been closed... I am BORED
    e) I think the auction setup is boring
    f) I like to argue, especially when bored, which I am now
    g) I want to see how many paragraphs I can get Trav and Zee to write
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • c) I never died until I hit level 8, and was so busy trying to get some food that I missed the end of testing party because I was on the auction page looking for some food I could afford that was better than fish.

    Then you didn't pay any attention to the tutorial or any information or ask for help. That was an easy answer. Instead you'd prefer to become a troll about things and see the game reworked to satisfy your on-demand personality. Sorry if the testing process bores you... and I love to write :D I crank out the equivalent of a novella a day. Too bad you feel your boredom must = irritating someone else.

    P.S. Seriously, your answer to trying to explain things and answer questions and try to figure out what your stumbling block was is met with intentional spite. Classy.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's called brainstorming, not spite. Obviously I did something right. My first death was at level 8.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I ate only cabbage until I got to about level 20.  It stacks well (80) and offers good energy for levels with small energy tanks. Produce vendors sell them.

    You might just grab yourself a few stacks of it and keep nibbling as you do other things to level up (leveling up gets you a bigger tank and sometimes currants and other goodies).  Never go below 1/2 tank - just snack on cabbage the entire time you play.  Petting and watering are good ways to get free perks too, as is quoin collecting.

    Again, Live Help is there to offer solutions (and Global Chat to a degree), so please don't be afraid to ask. I would have brought you food and teleported (no energy loss for you) you back to the party. 
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol @ SG...okay, good on ya for having fun in all this.  From what I hear, the game isn't extremely balanced past 20-30...but I'm still not seeing it yet at 22...might start seeing it at 25 or 30, but considering that I have opted to play the game a bit differently, I think I might have expanded my "unbalance" to post 30...we'll see...

    Sorry the auctions ticked you off...they do that sometimes...frankly, not a huge fan of the commissions fee, but willing to live with it for now...I thought the commission fee is only taken if the item sells...if it isn't working that way, then YES please identify that as a major bug!!  And roger that on the ones that undercut you in the auctions...I will admit, I do that myself...especially if I feel someone has way overinflated the price, or if I just want to get the thing off my hands and out of my inventory (knowing that the higher posters are probably trolling for items so they can buy them and resell them later).

    I'm a huge fan of the vendors, now that I know which ones are the bigger buyers (hint hint - think 'tool' or 'alchemy')...and no commission fee, no listing fee...at my level, I'm often using them than dealing with the frustrations/stress of the auction - will someone buy or won't they...how long before someone buys my stuff?!  Ugh, the auctions can be just too frustrating for me...too people dependent, and since I can't factor in all the things that make people buy my stuff...ugh...too aggravating at times.

    However, there are some things with high demand and smaller supplies that sell well and quickly in auctions, and sometimes the vendors don't give diddly for them...especially if they are project related like zee mentioned...oh, you can get good currants for project items...especially if it is an active project phase...

    I guess for me it's all about strategizing...I know you aren't a fan of spreadsheets, from other posts...but this game truly is pretty complex...sometimes notes are a necessary evil for keeping track of all that is Glitch...

    Okay, dear...grouse on...and enjoy every minute of it since it looks like we'll all be bored until at least tomorrow...
    Posted 18 months ago by b3achy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Depends on if you consider death bad... me personally I'm aiming for the achievement at 1009 deaths - which is infinitely easier to recover from at lower levels.

    And your statement...
    g) I want to see how many paragraphs I can get Trav and Zee to write

    Spite. Sorry it's not funny and very trollish to intentionally cause other people to do things just because you want to irritate them. You haven't been getting anywhere convincing, well - anyone, that the auction fees need changed and won't listen to why. In the other thread you became petulant because 'we didn't understand'. Yes - we did, you just weren't liking the reasons we were giving. Each time you've been unable to make your point, you shift to a totally different topic (first stores, now this) which had nothing to do with the original suggestions. 

    It's people like you that make me really not want to help out new players anymore. What you are doing isn't brainstorming it's trolling. Instead of feeding you in-game as I'd originally planned... I think I'll stop feeding you here. Good luck!
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I change what I say. It's called brainstorming.. it means different ideas. You guys are always giving the same explanations and the same ideas and the same responses no matter what I say. You re-write them over and over. I'm not into that, and I only said that so that you would see it as a futile endeavor, which it is. From the very start, Trav, you have seen fit to attack my ideas from every angle, with the same idea... KEEP THINGS THE SAME. I am ready to hear a different idea. I really just said that to get you to stop.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Keep things the same, because everything you've suggested thus far has been tried and failed. You won't listen to why, and only recently came out with the real issue... you don't quite grasp the game concept. *That* is an interesting forum thread... but it still has nothing to do with auctions.

    You ideas are not new, not different, have been tried, have failed, and the reasons have been explained to you... got any new ones? That would be brainstorming.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How about you counter my ideas with new ones instead?
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You can see your 'items sold' on your home page, but it would definitely be more useful if it were included in the history. Even just being able to click the basket icon would be nice.

    That was my response to the suggestion.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You haven't acknowledged any of the things we are saying (in fact, you flat out ignore them) and - you're right - I don't get what your point is, other than your game strategy isn't working for you, hence the game must be broken.

    There are plenty of pain points in Glitch.  But the auction fees are not likely to go away given that we just got them and they fixed some long standing problems with auctions.

    At any rate, when the game restarts, you'll get a New Day, a full energy refill, and should be able to carry forth.   Good luck.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wouldn't mind seeing public auction history for an item I am about to sell too.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As far as not getting what my point is, that's pretty much why I am not going to argue it and why I haven't responded to the responses. It is really hard to argue my point when the counterargument is actually against something else.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The average price per unit based on all available auctions is listed at the top of the sell interface.
    When none are on the market it's showing 80% 'worth' as referenced in the Items index.

    What more information would a historical index provide?
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't just want an average of what's being listed. I want to see how much the last ones that actually got SOLD went for :P
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It won't give you that information. A historical index of that nature will also capture all of the between-friends sales and all of the stuff sold off for dead cheap and way too much (that happened a fair amount before we could mail money). It would provide a whole lot of data but no relevant information.

    Also, I'm not sure on the tech side if records are even retained for that long. A big space-saver in games is to dump logs like that after 10-50 items.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Btw with the ad/storefront idea, I was thinking of something more like Kijiji or a forum (but like kijiji,easy sorting by product and price and location). This to facilitate in-person sales and to keep a lot of buying and selling chatter out of the global chat where it can annoy people.

    Any ideas I flat-out ignored that were right on target and accurate, if I went off on a totally different idea.. it probably means you made a good argument and convinced me it was a bad idea.

    OH, and i think you misunderstand.. I meant only the auction histories (especially helpful in areas where there are no current listings of that product).. and only listing maybe the last 5 ended auctions of that item.
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I mean in auction histories too... it's common for people on one side of the world to be gathering materials, then auctioning them to friends working on something else across the globe. As we've tried explaining... money has virtually no value after you have a few skills. Listing the last 5 ended auctions for any given item won't give you an 'average selling price' or any indicator of what stuff will actually sells for. A full stack of drinks can go from a could hundred to a couple thousand depending on time of day, who is online, and what they are doing... within 5 ended auctions. The last legitimate music block may have sold 3 days ago for around 500, but you wouldn't know it with the 6 ones transferred between friends via the auction for 200, because the friend needed donations for the Giants. Data without context is useless.

    You'll find there's actually very, very little buying/selling need/want chat in Global, people use Groups for much of that. Glitch is not an economy game, it's not a wealth generator game. It's very familiar on many levels, but so different you can't try applying game tactics from another world here.

    Seriously, the bare bones of what you want to do is already there if you look into Groups. Find a few like-minded players, pick a street, make it happen. You don't need changes to the game for that. The only thing missing is a physical in-game location, which I don't see happening (the players don't want to man them, and the devs don't see a need to create them). Group Halls might eventually happen, a classifieds newspaper people can subscribe to/buy and have delivered to their home might happen (bet you see fees for both subscribing and for listing an ad)... but a huge chunk of the population would revolt if our source of trade was wedged into a funky eBay/craigslist hybrid.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So.. what you're basically saying is the market system is purposefully boring and shouldn't be a dynamic and interesting aspect of the game.. but rather.. an afterthought?
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm saying the market isn't a source of entertainment in this game, yes.
    Can that be changed? Maybe. Should it? Probably not. Putting things on the market is one of those things you do to fill time in between adventures. It's not difficult. It's clean, simple, and quick because *the players* wanted it that way... so we could get on with The Next Big Adventure.

    The world is utterly massive with boatloads of things to do. Many people only return home once a day, to take care of daily tasks, do their shopping, and then be on with what they want to do. Others prefer to sit at home and play with the auctions and chat. For every minute you're standing around playing in the auctions - you are also losing energy/mood. You *could* log out to do all that and avoid the losses. The current system is flexible enough to accommodate the different play styles.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not an afterthought.  It's just not the main purpose of the game.

    There is no main purpose of the game (or, none revealed anyway).

    Should it be the main purpose of the game? Not for this player.  I'm not motivated to make wads of currants in an imaginary world.  I'm motivated by what happens when disparate people all join together to play within an imagined world of self-directed possibility.  Auctions are a means to facilitate an end, not an end.

    Certainly some play just to hoard currants.  I haven't seen them lately.

    The auctions sucked up until just a few weeks ago when some tweaks were made.  I think the balance is spot on, there are a couple things I'd like to see (like, I put up 250 cherries, and people can buy them all or just a few... or requests) but they are not pressing enough for me to push for them.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I guess... I don't really understand how everything could be just fine if people are using the auctions for personal trades. It sounds like something is broken to me if they have to do that (abuse the system).. or just.. this is a particularly lazy group
    Posted 18 months ago by Purple Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Walk from Alakol to anywhere in the mines... then tell me if the auctions aren't less painful. Sure you could mail it, provided boxes are along the way and they are inclined to go to one. One of us could teleport, but money is less valuable than energy.
    Selling for less than market average to friends and letting them know it's there isn't abuse or a broken economy, it's good networking... something social games depend on. Asking a friend for something you don't have / need / want / are looking for isn't representative of a broken market, it's representative of good people helping good people.
    Posted 18 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why shouldn't people use the auctions for personal trades? 

    Is there a rule somewhere that says I have to declare my intentions before I use a game mechanism, and someone else has to rule whether or not that's ok to use it for that purpose?

    Why use a pejorative term like "lazy" to describe people playing a game in a way that they enjoy? 
    Posted 18 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • SG: if what you want out of a game is a full blown market where the market dictates everything and the game revolves around your use of the market, then there are 1000s of things that need to change to make Glitch a virtual marketplace, where profit is king and where people never act selflessly (as in trading or selling low or gifting). Perhaps an Ayn Rand game is out there somewhere.  So, I can see where you'd think it's broken if it's not all about the market. Projects may appall you since people just dump shit on the street for others to use to contribute!  zomg, the real world rarely works like that.  

    That said, many people *just* play the auctions in Glitch, they seem to work for them, and they get to spend a few hours online inbetween real life and it's groovy.  Sweet.  There is room for the market to be someone's goal, but the market need not be the goal for all.

    Now, people find all manner of creative uses of the game mechanics, including auctions.  Before mail, there was no way to get an item to someone all the way across the world from you except for the auctions or walking through 20 screen loads and taking 15 minutes. Mail makes player-player gifting easier but I haven't seen a mailbox in the Deeps yet, so auctions are still the easiest way to get something to someone there.  It's actually a clever subversion of the market, and a reason I like Glitch.  You just never know what the mix of people will come up with, because the personalities are the real variables here.
    Posted 18 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All I can say is "Wow"... I need to Permalink my posts and comments, I guess. Do you guys keep track of where you post and go back and look? I just happened to search for my user name in the forums to see if it tracked my posts and found there was all this conversation about a small post I made! I missed out! Good dialogue from such a small idea.
    Posted 18 months ago by Dr007 Subscriber! | Permalink