Topic

Griefing, trolling and things to come: Not to be doomsayer or anything but...

That Kid Tyler wrote in another thread the following:
"I feel like any griefing action will immediately become the "uncool" thing to do, and as a result of the Glitch culture here the grief would be so limited that deliberately doing anything unhelpful or disrespectful just wouldn't be fun for anyone who has had any time at all to be immersed in the game. A sort of conditioning-type thing."

I started to write a response but realized it is something I've been wanting to bring up for awhile. I don't bring this up because I am a doomsayer or that I think everything good will be destroyed or that I am a advocate of the status quo/closed world. I am VERY excited for launch and to see how things will change. But they will change. I honestly hope TKT is right. I just seriously doubt it.

Three of the reasons people are so well behaved here are two things that will change when the game launches:
(1) The population is relatively small.
(2) Because the beta is closed/invite only, it is like a gift. Even if it is still free, it feels like it is something to be respected because being able to play is rare.
(3) The world is open for limited periods and, like 2, feels like it should be treasured.

(These are not the only reasons. I think there are many other reasons this game attracts pleasant but these are the one that will change at launch.)

Number (1) is just a a thing. The more people playing, the bigger chance one or more of them will be a jerk with spare time on their hands to be jerky.

Number (2) is an interesting one for me. The "I have been chosen and am honored" perceived value of an "invite" will go away and will be replaced by a completely open door. 

The only thing that sometimes replaces that feeling is if there is a price at the door. But the game is free. When the only price of admission becomes an email account (also free and basically anonymous), some folks will value as nothing. There is a whole theory that there is a perfect price point for things that has very little to do with the value of the item or service: if you charge too much people feel ripped off BUT if you charge too little people feel like they are getting something of little value and appreciate it less. I am NOT advocating Tiny Speck charges a play fee. Just pointing out that some folks will treat the game (and those playing) poorly because they will see no value.

And number (3)... When opened 24/7 some folks will get bored and find other ways to entertain themselves. Some of these ways will be less fun than others for everyone else.

I would love to believe that social pressure would keep folks from griefing. But we all know the internet. The non-face-to-face nature of it allows some folks to toss empathy out the window. They don't FEEL that the other players are real people with real emotions. Or they sometimes forget. Or something. You can try to tell them. You can try to show them how much you care about this thing we call Glitch.

HOWEVER the thing about griefing (and trolling and the like) is that the more "uncool" it is, the more entertaining many find it. It is (usually) about getting a reaction. The larger the reaction, the happier they are. And if they feel the emotional reaction is out of proportion with the subject (in this case, "just a game... and a weird one at that"), the more they will relish it. 

Griefers hate "rules." If a rule is not enforced by the program itself, they will break it. The more "player enforced" a "rule" (or "code of behavior" or "set the ethics") is, the more they will break it... just to see folks get upset. Some of the thinking goes like this: "Who the hell are you to tell me what to do? Are you part of the company? Who gave you the authority to tell me crap?" The more "bossy" a player is, the more a player say "this is the way it is done" and certainly the moment a player pulls out any sort of pseudo-cred ("This is how we do things. I should know. I was tester when it was alpha."), the more griefers will go after them.

This sort of reaction to rules extends to "official" rules too. If there is a loop hole they will find it. Even if there is a policy of against some action, if it is not enforced by the programming itself, they will break it. "If you didn't want me doing that, you should make it so that I can't." (And even if the programmers do, they will find anyway they can to break it.)

Tiny Speck can boot people... but unless they are asking for credit cards at the door, some griefers will come back. All it takes is a new email address. As long as they can make people mad, they'll be back.

Things that do make it less interesting to them:
1) Being ignored.
2) Being laughed off.
3) Being welcomed and accepted... even for their destructive actions.

Personally, I am a fan of 3... but it is the most work.

(There will also be people who post things in the forums just to get a reaction. Some will be just dumb. Some will probably be clever and just probable enough that people believe it. Some will be entertaining... if you realize it is a 'joke.')

I can almost GUARANTEE that with in a month of the open launch the following will happen:
- A group will get together and poison every single tree they can in the shortest time possible.
- Certain streets will become PACKED with animals of every sort.
- Because people have said it is "poor manners", certain folks will (1) purposely mind rocks only half way and (2) purposely find rocks other are mining at and mind them.
- bags lying on the street filled with piggy plop (which it not actually griefing... I could use a Pig Poop Bag).
- Notes with obscenities. And hate speech.

Why am I writing all this? Not entirely sure. I think I fear that the rapid change when it comes will sour the experience for many. I worry that some will get so angry and so upset... and that will just add flame to the fire. I know that the community will change. I expect folks will group up into clearer bunches. I am okay (and excite) about change.

Thank you.

(PS - Why have I given griefing and trolling so much thought? Well, I am an ex-troll. Never griefed. For some reason I drew a line between game experience and forums. I could tell you a 100 reasons why at the time it seemed okay and how the "tone" of my trolling was more playful/impish than hateful... but it was still trolling.)

Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

Previous 1 2
  • Do you best to avoid fear and worry - it's never helpful.

    And maybe you might edit out all the how to info in your post.

    Just saying...
    Posted 19 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lots of good insight here, Lord Bacon-o, and thanks for opening up to the Glitch community, that takes guts.  

    I also wonder what will change when the world opens to the public.  Trolls will be unavoidable, but I hope they can be handled in a peaceful, caring way.

    Still, it will be an exciting time to be a Glitch :)
    Posted 19 months ago by Homsar Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lord Bacon-o - I'm glad to see you've crossed over into the light side. :D

    You bring up a lot of thought-provoking points, and I'm not sure why I haven't really seen anything like this earlier.

    I'll respond more at length when I'm at home and not typing on my phone.
    Posted 19 months ago by That Kid Tyler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nearly everything he mentions has already happened, it was just sort of accidentally done by players who were pushing the limits out of curiosity more than malice.  

    I agree with everything he says--I don't think he's being a doomsayer in the least, and the examples are actually the most obvious, easiest things that will naturally occur to a lot of people (whether they make them happen or not).

    They are coming....
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for pulling all of this together in one package... it's not doomsaying - it's reality. It's not 'how-to' it's things that have already been done. Bits and pieces of it float between threads, but what you've said here is one very real possibility at go-live. 

    Personally, I think we're about to see an uptick in the younger demographic now that school is out for the summer - and with that some of the behaviors we love to try to 'fix' here in the Forums. It also means an increase in begging, so we'll see how well the community generosity holds it together soon enough.

    One other point... many of the 'social' issues get resolved between tests... here... in the Forums. Once the world is live, all these discussions are going to be completely missed until someone goes looking for an answer they can't find in the world.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Staff will have to figure out how to handle this.  So far, they have encouraged certain types of "misbehaving," as part of testing, but obviously when it's on a larger scale, it will upset more people and dissuade some from playing.  When greeters encounter unpleasant or inappropriate behavior from new players, we are supposed to simply leave, and let the staff handle it.  So my advice is to report inappropriate behavior to staff, without hesitation, and to ignore and block those who seek to annoy. 
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bacon, how long did you spend writing this?
    Have a cookie fer pete's sake!
    Posted 19 months ago by serfer0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's a fun idea that the developers could do to help with meanies: Have an option to go INVISIBLE O.O. Lets say, you got a guy bugging you or following you around doing some annoying thing, there could be an option to set yourself invisible to that person. Eventually, if the guy is a big enough jerk, he won't be playing a very social game anymore!!

    I have absolutely no idea how something like this could work but I've played a lot of MMOs in my day and sometimes I wish I could just make ignoring a troll easier.

    Anyways, it's just an idea.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Most of things I mentioned are not even really "griefing." Or at least might be ton for reasons that aren't for griefing reasons. Some of them will be done just to see what will happen. And I am not slamming anyone for doing this stuff now. Testing and all that. (Hate speech being the exception.)

    I also agree that fear and worry isn't helpful. Not really my intent. But I also believe an ounce of awareness is good.

    This is a poor example. Say there is a band you LOVE. They're small and not many people know about them. You go to their shows at small bars. You know half the people and every show. It is intimate and great. In fact the band knows you and once dedicated a song to you.

    And then the band becomes big. Now they perform at larger venues and the audiences are huge. And, no surprise, there is always two or three drunk jerks at shows. You can get super upset and never go to shows and never listen to them ever again. Or you can get in the drunk guys faces and yell at them for spoiling everything. Or you can appreciate all the new fans and the fact that a greater world appreciates and enjoys something you've loved for awhile. It can open doors or close them.

    I prefer to let it open doors... but I also am going to prepare myself to ignore the jerks. Or see if I can calmly reach some other ground with them.

    added:
    serfer0, valid point. I type quickly. Also, I am procrastinating some finishing writing a one act that I need to have a rough draft done in the next two days. I get pretty prolific when then is other writing I am avoiding.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Nayme. I like this idea, or some iteration of it. Some way to remove a person and all of their conversation from your view of the game. Don't know how actually feasible this is, but a good idea nonetheless.
    Posted 19 months ago by That Kid Tyler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And what an awesome way to look at life in general, Bacon-o.
    Posted 19 months ago by That Kid Tyler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Kudos for bring this up!

    When I read That Kid Tyler's post, my gut reaction was, "ORLY?  It's awfully easy to create grief in-game and it's not that easy to condition griefers because most people greifing thrive on chaos and attention, so any reaction to them will be met with more griefing!"

    As staff said in some other topic, people will be jerks.  And right now, there aren't really community guidelines to say where the lines will be drawn for staff to step in to mitigate trouble.  I'd be curious to know if there is a plan to put community guidelines into place and what those might be... I'll be honest, the lack of info around this from staff is the primary reason I'm still on the fence in regard to buying a subscription.

    Also, is it really trolling if it's possible in-game?  How do we define trolling?

    A problem with the notion of trolling and griefing is that some people will call anything trolling. Mining a rock someone else is mining?  Troll!!111  Trolling is really a different beast than just inconveniencing another player, so I worry as much about real trolling as I do the drama that ensues from people calling other people trolls over small things.

    As the world becomes more populated and as players join who could give a fuck about community or community ethos, we can see the following being possible:

    - Mining other people's rocks just to piss them off
    - Following barnacle parties in order to get ahead of them to collect all the barnies on the street
    - Camping on a street near a shrine just to be able to swoop in to grab anything they may see fit to drop
    - Changing all the animal's name to obscenities just because they read on the Forum that it upsets people
    - Camping at a project with a ton of sneezing powder, because as people are working at projects and losing energy, now they'll all also lose mood and have the hilarity of not being able to do a fucking thing because sneezing powder (and sparkle) freezes up the entire keyboard. Added bonus, splank people at projects so that they lose more mood.
    - Camping at projects in order to disassemble someone's machine and collect every thing that someone drops to donate to the project
    - Attending parties to scoop up every thing that is put out for the party.
    - Wait on entry streets for new players to splank them until they die - wow, what a great first experience for a new Glitchling!  Or offer them lemon juice, telling them they need to drink to improve mood (and watch what happens when they drink their juice and die!).
    - Camp out on Help or Global and offer the wrong answers to questions, just to make people run in circles or (better!) just chat there and be an argumentative dick.
    - Hang out in the Tower and pick up a key that keeps respawning.
    - When the rook shows up, be a real dick and sneeze powder/splank all the people battling the rook, draining their energy.  The rook becomes a hero to the griefers.

    If you become known a griefer?   That's OK! just sign up with another account.  Easier, still, just change your screen name and wardrobe/vanity - whose going to remember what your profile page looked like anyway to recall that this is you?

    So, let's imagine there's a glitcher that does all of the above on a continuous basis.  First, are they a troll and are they griefing?  After all, it's all *possible* to do all of the above.  If we say, well, it's possible to do in-game & 'some will just be jerks, sorry', then vigilante teams will form (as they have) to call other players out in chat and forums (which, to me, is a form of trolling, really, since witch hunts never end well) and then a player's game time is taken up for the 'cause', chasing around and getting even with the trollers.  

    All of which boils down to a game that centers around player-player drama, rather than player-player cooperation.   

    So, is this a bad thing or is this just part of the game?

    I'm one of those players into game cooperation, not game drama, so the notion of the game being about vigilante packs running around countering griefers make me want to spend my time/money anywhere but here.  

    However, I'm also not keen on staff decisions to counteract potential grief by taking an aspect of the game out of context with the rest of the game to try to tone down the ability of those wreaking havoc.  The tree thing comes to mind - the balance of trees in-game has a long history of needing to be tweaked... and with those tweaks has come some unintended consequences (impacting quests or gameplay somehow).  I'm more a fan of deciding a basic philosophy of gameplay and then tweaking items to conform to that plan than about tweaking things to counter some aspect of the game that someone has decided to use to grief.

    At any rate, I've no idea what the best solution is, but I think the devs should develop a set of community guidelines to mark where the line is in the sand or if there is a line in the sand.

    And I'll reiterate that the game I want to play is less about player-to-player hostility and more about player-player cooperation.  Sadly, that is exactly the sort of thing that some like to disrupt, which again explains my hesitation to subscribe.  I might cough up the money simply because I really really really like the developers of this game and want them to succeed, but can see myself not renewing if my worst fears about the game and how players interact comes true.  Life's too short for online drama.

    Maybe part of the solution involves a line of gameplay that is more challenging than the grind we all do, so that bored people will have something to do rather than create havoc for havoc's sake.  Stuff that's a challenge and that marks a Glitcher as an elite because it's simply not an easy quest to complete.  Or maybe part of it is developing more coordination quests to rope people into working together.  

    Or maybe staff don't see this as a problem at all - frankly, I'd love to hear staff input on this one.
    Posted 19 months ago by zeeberk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like my idea too : )

     I mean, It would break the game to block the person from interacting with the world. But it wouldn't break a thing if I couldn't see him and he couldn't see me. The theory is that without people to troll, the troll will go back under his bridge. And a big enough troll will have a lot of invisible friends.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Nayme Maybe an extension to the Block function. The guy cannot see you or your actions but everybody else still can. God knows how though, I hope :P
    Posted 19 months ago by snygyst Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks Lord Bacon-o for putting into words, what I have been thinking for several weeks.
    This scenerio is the only thing that made me hesitate about buying a subscription.
    I resolved that  I would try to find ways to ignore it and work around it, but it already makes me sad to think how much warier and insular players will become.

    "That's life" is the poorest excuse in the world for being a dick.
    Posted 19 months ago by caley dunn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nayme, like I said, I'm not exactly sure how practical the implementation is, but it might be worth dropping by the Ideas forum to share this with the devs.
    Posted 19 months ago by That Kid Tyler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for this thought provoking post, Lord Bacon-o. As one with limited experience with MMOs, I appreciate the heads up on what we can expect once the game goes live. The few instances of mean-spirited behavior I have witnessed during this alpha/beta testing period were unsettling---I mean, why someone would chose to be obscene or mean or rude or antagonistic puzzles me. For the most part, my personal choice is to use # 1 to extinguish negative behavior and to use positive reinforcement (+1, hugs, etc.) to encourage positive game play and forum remarks.

    I have read plenty of debates and arguments---lots of opinions and different points of view---and I have appreciated the mature, articulate and respectful  tone. I can only hope that the more experienced players will model the behavior they expect from others. I will certainly try. Splank me when I don't:)
    Posted 19 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Indeed!

    I read somewhere on the glitch site by a Staff that they don't "borrow solutions (or problems) from the future". Which in reality is the only way to go when designing something like this. I mean, the developers have absolutely no idea what's gonna happen tomorrow. And neither do we. We have experience to guide our theories (and I for one don't doubt a single one of the proposed issues) but it really is in the hands of the new players. There's really nothing you or I or Mr. Staff can do to prevent meanies.

    This is a heavily social dependent game. And for everyone in testing, this is probably the type of game we've been googling for a while. As a psychologically minded individual, I am aware of the shortcomings of social interactions through any type of media or forum IRL or online. It's the unfortunate truth that as social beings we are subjugated to all aspects of interactions. There are no perfect worlds.

    We just gotta make the world perfect for ourselves! Be examples. Ignore the meanies. And keep a positive attitude in the face of trollololol.

    I haven't even played yet and I want Glitch to become everything that I've been searching for. I won't let anyone spoil it for me!
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And I may propose my silly little fix to the developers ^^
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zeeberk, you stated a lot of my wider view of player-driven "story." I have long be fascinated by EVE: Online (a stated inspiration for the social interaction in Glitch). Part of my "meh" feelings with most MMOs is that when everyone is the "hero", no one is. But if the "story"* is about the WORLD and the societies that spring up in it? That intrigues me. (I never played EVE beyond a free trial. I can't make that sort of time commitment to get anything out of it.)

    I am not even against players becoming "villains." The PUFFS thing is an interesting example (although I didn't follow it very closely).  But there is a difference between character vs character and player vs player. It is a hard line to walk.

    *I am abusing quotes a lot, in part because we don't quite have the words for these things. New narrative forms are being created. We live in an interesting age.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We all know you are one of the eleven peculiar giants here to warn us about what will happen in the future. Very nice post and good feedback. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Eulogio Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All of these things are concerns to me as well, as someone who's had little to no MMO experience, precisely because of the drama. Real life is full of ridiculous people doing ridiculous things. I can see how that conflict could contribute to the depth of the game and the people who step up to combat it, but what I've loved about Glitch so far is its community spirit to rally together to build new places and help others. 

    @zeeberk - my thoughts exactly - I'm still hesitant to buy a subscription for those precise reasons. 

    At the very least, the open dialogue started by Lord Bacon-o (who yes, must be one of the eleven giants), is a good start to working on it. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I see one problem with the 'being invisible' ability: being invisible would also be available to the griefers/trolls,and, effectively, give them a whole new level of choices in how to grieve others.
    Posted 19 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Flattered, Folderol, but I am not. I would say, if I had to choose a patron Giant, it would be Friendly. Mostly because I love the word "stygian."

    Two things:
    1) I am not advocating the devs do anything beyond what they are doing. They know what's what and are handling it correctly.
    2) I started this thread with trepidation. I knew that it could be taken poorly by some and the internet has a habit having words/intent be twisted. But I should not have worried. There are some mighty thoughtful folks here. So a big thanks to you all for that.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Haha, that's fantastic. 'Stygian' is a great word. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Folderol Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's already a "block" feature which disables most of the bad things people can do to you.  You don't become invisible, but the person you've blocked can't splank you, send you private messages, etc.  If that doesn't help, you can always teleport away, once you learn that skill, and no one can enter your home without your permission.  Invisibility would allow mischief-makers to be invisible as well, which could have some unintended, undesirable consequences.

    Most thefts are easily preventable: no machines should be brought to project sites (Yaya will take them and leave ransom notes!), you should never have so few empty slots in your inventory that you will be dropping gems as you mine, anything you care about losing should not be left outside, and no one should be permitted in your home if there's anything in it which isn't nailed down.

    Splanking isn't a terribly big issue, since it deducts ten mood from the splanker, and just two from the splankee.  It becomes a problem when a mob of splankers attacks an individual, which floods the screen with splanking graphics, making the game unusable for the victim.  Splanking could be removed from the game, but then we'd have the same problem with mass hugging, kissing, and mooning. 
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The invisibility idea is supposed to work both ways. If you got a person who's bugging you, you invisible yourself from that person but you also can no longer see that person. Both people vanish. That way the meanie can't troll you and you won't have to see the meanie.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The only thing I see being difficult with the invisible thing would be issue where both can act on the environment. Say mining. Most like it would be rare but still would come up. Also the rare occasion you DO drop something, they would be unable to see that you are standing right over it. I know if I saw a gem lying in the street and no one around, I'd pick it up.

    A random question: Does ignore extend to notes or piggy naming? This seems like it might be needed. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's fair, Lord Bacon-o. It's probably a horrible idea in practice. But it sure looks good on paper ^^
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • From what I read in your first post Bacon-O, it sounds a lot like the "don't be angry at the ignorant -- educate them" approach (in terms of accepting newer players that seem to be destructive towards the game the way it stands now). I agree that this is a great mindset to have, but at the same time, we know there are just some people that, no matter what we do or how benevloent we act towards them, they're in it to destroy and harass and just cause chaos and a line has to be drawn SOMEWHERE, lol. Where that somewhere is, though, is a different matter.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cerulean, I agree. My person policy, "Smoother them with kindness. That doesn't work, laugh at them. If that has no effect, ignore them." I have never found attempting to "correct" them to have worked. So have ignore, if they still cause problems, I report. I never try to take it on myself.

    Actually, I am lying. My gut instinct is to always engage and sometimes I get sucked it. But I am trying to be a better man. Or a shepherd. Or some other movie quote.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh no the trolls are coming! You know, I thought of all games/communities this would be the one least concerned with these people. I mean Glitch is practically designed to be troll-proof, seriously. Glitch revolves around imagination, patience, zen, waiting, and having fun. The game doesn't even focus on value or accomplishments, these exist only as distractions. So why would you possibly care of someone trying to come and upset you? It's nearly impossible for them to ruin the game for you unless you obsess over the material and want to hoard resources (which in my opinion is against the nature of Glitch) or if you're so insecure in your beliefs and ideas that you get goaded into defending them against people just trying to mess with you. I mean really? Leaving the last three or so resources in a mining rock? Oh no I'm using my energy less efficiently! Those dastardly trolls! I'm sorry but get your priorities straight, honestly. Trolls are not something that need to be discussed and protected against. Glitch is practically designed to put off those with malicious intent and the only way they can do you harm is if you let them. I would be completely fucking appalled if anti-troll measures were put into the game itself as they would just be crutches for babies and end up being a pain for normal players. This is coming from someone who is indeed a 'troll'
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My gut instinct is to punch them out!  But I have learned over the years that Lord B's method is much better.

    I suspect that his predictions are true, we will see all kinds of horrible behaviour when the game opens.   But we will also see lots of good people who will enjoy the game the way we have.

    We do need to be prepared for the bad stuff, give evil-doers a beer to show them the way we do things in Glitch, ignore them if that doesn't work and finally report them for the devs to deal with.

    We have the advantage of knowing our way around (though that will not last long) but there is little we can do as individuals against determined evil-doers, so leave them to a higher authority.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @strcat I could tell you have troll tendencies while reading your post. You made me sad for expressing an opinion and sad for everyone else : (

    But in all fairness, there is nothing we can do about them. Our options are to feed them or starve them. But they will always come back for dinner
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cassandria, read my post, seriously. The last thing we want to do is develop and "us and them" mentality. Referring to them as 'evil-does' is ignorant and counter-productive. Spend your free time in Glitch (there's lots of waiting) contemplating your gut instinct toward violence and try to develop a more sensible approach to dealing with people who don't agree with your ideas of civility and normality. This is a much more intelligent and zen way to deal with a problem then joining up in a holy fucking crusade against those evil people.
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Couple things Nayme, if I didn't challenge your beliefs you wouldn't ever consider changing them or even examining them. Also there is indeed a third option: to accept those different than us, even if they wish to harm us. 
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't allow people in my life if they wish to harm me. That aint how I roll. Hope you can accept that. Please don't ruin this game for me before I even get the chance to play it.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with a lot of what you say, strcat. I also don't want draconian built-in game "fixes" for griefers or trolls. (I consider griefers and trolls separate, if relate, personalities.) And I agree (and said) that the tone and style of the game is griefer resistant. There is no winning. Humor is imbedded into the game and that makes it more difficult to take anything seriously.

    Where we disagree is that they won't be attracted to it. "Take seriously" is the key. We've already seen how upset some get over poisoning trees or having their rock mined. And once people take something seriously, have something they can get upset about, well, that becomes a target. (And, no, I am not blaming the "victim.") And I think it is healthy to think about these things. Not to set down a policy. That just sets them off more. In fact, the whiff of it seems to have set you off, if just a bit. But thinking about how one cares to respond is fine. Sure. Don't obsess about. Don't let that color your play (play as in fun). But awareness is rarely a bad thing.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This game is different things to different people of course, but in my personal opinion the true essence of Glitch is not the amassing of wealth and becoming the 'best' player. Glitch is about imagination and contemplation during all that waiting time. Be critical of your own beliefs, and be more open to the beliefs of others. What else are you going to do while you wait? :)
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That I definitely agree with!
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well Bacon we do indeed agree. The only point in which my opinion differs is that of the 'victim'. I definetly would blame the victim, especially if they get upset over such a mellow game as this. They ought to reevaluate what's important to them and actually consider what they're getting all worked up about "don't cry over spilt milk" and all that. At any rate what I'm really worried about is what you so aptly called draconian built-in game fixes. And you know, I like discussion, I'm participating aren't I? Hah!
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My primary concern is with trolls who really come after you for very little reason. Like, say you water a tree that for some reason a troll ws being possessive over (like, say, they wanted to complete a quest where they bring a tree to its fullest), and do so without realizing that they're not just standing there AFK. So then they yell at you and curse you out and you walk away, BUT THEN THEY FOLLOW YOU AND PLANK YOU TO DEATH ENDLESSLY all the while berating you and your mother and your mother's mother. And you ignore them for an hour and they're still there with their anger and they're almost literally up your butt and they're still yelling (in all caps) like a madperson.

    Then again, maybe I'm jaded by working with mentally ill individuals and seeing so many with anger or violence issues.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think anyone is getting upset over this game or other people's actions just yet. I think that's a  misinterpretation of this thread.

    I do think it's fair to say that there will be people who want to ruin the game for others for sport. And I also think it's fair to say that being a part of a social game like this means there is no way to get rid of it. SO, I think there is merit in discussing how best to handle the situation from a player's point of view. And this future player believes strongly in the 'ignore the guy' strategy.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, censorship in general has been a hot topic here before. I know a lot of people were in favor of having a filter where each person could determine what words they would or would not like to see displayed on their screen (e.g. if someone does not want to see a curse word, they could replace it with asterisks or some other word deemed to be harmless). Maybe we could have a similar filter where we could choose whose speech to see on our screen and whose not to? So if, say, I come around and you don' like what I have to say, you'd have to option of "muting" me out and anything I say won't be displayed to you but other users could still see it. And maybe planking and other forms of harassment (like the mooning emo bear or whatever) can have a limit for how many times it can be used on a particular user in a game day or something.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ceulean, there is an "ignore" option. I am not sure what it all covers.

    BTW, I missed this although I was around. (the video.)  That was around my birthday so I was probably drinking or something.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Censorship is pretty tough and should be handled on a player to player agreement. Chat filters that can be turned on or off and blocking other players who spam and what not should (and I think are in Glitch) be options in any online game. Everyone has the right to say whatever they want and everyone has the right to not listen if they don't want to. Emotes that affect other players is a tough one simply because its hard to find a happy balance. I hear that Glitch has things you can actually do to other players (like splanking? which is hitting people with wood?) and I think that's pretty cool. How do we as players choose what types of emotes can be used on us and how often will be tricky, especially if people are abusing these emotes.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nayme Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bacon-o, haha, that's cute. I wasn't around but it's an interesting element to the concept of disruptive players.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cerulean - what you describe is basically the 'block' feature, which admittedly has limitations. When you block someone, you can't see their speech in Global Chat, they can't see yours - but everyone else can see both sets. For some that's confusing - others really don't care about the potential one-sided conversations. They also can't see when you are online, or where you are remotely... you can go back to their page (if you remember where it was) and unblock them later if you want. Doesn't help much if they're on the same street though... you're still subject to manual stalking and verbal harassment in Local. They can't follow you at that point, so evading them isn't too difficult.
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • L Bacon, thank you for posting that link!
    I LOVE the thought that such places may well exist for those who
    insist on being disruptive,anti-social,mean,nasty,and generally total PITAs.
    Posted 19 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love disruptive, anti-social, mean, nasty people! They're fun!
    Posted 19 months ago by strcat Subscriber! | Permalink
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