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#### Alts, Keys & Rules

There's been all kinds of crazy speculation about us suspending accounts which sign in from the same IP address or accounts created by the same person to play two separate characters. This is just crazy speculation: we have not done this, we have no plans to ever do it and it doesn't make any sense at all.
(I know there was a player who claimed they had two accounts, one of which was deleted an the other suspended, because it was the same person playing both: this is simply false. We don't publicly explain the private details of account suspensions or deletions but we always communicate the details explicitly to the player involved. And we almost never take any permanent action without warning the player and trying to work with them to improve the situation. If they then make up a story there's not much we can do … other than write a post like this ;)
Creating more than one character to play the game in a different way (e.g., another kind of persona, a different combination of skills, whatever) is totally fine with us. It can be fun! And, of course, playing with friends, family, roommates or whoever you like is encouraged. We do not use IP addresses for much more than diagnosing network problems: those who are saying that we will ban accounts which originate from the same IP address are just making it up. Ignore them.
However, we don't want people creating secondary accounts simply for the purpose of giving the real character an advantage they would not otherwise have or doing something which would otherwise be impossible.
So, to be explicit, this is not allowed: creating a secondary account, using the first character to give the new character the money to buy a house, having the second character buy a house and give a key to the main character and then just continuing to play the new character as one who effectively owns two houses.
I don't know all the details, but I understand that at some point last week, some guide or staff member (guides are player volunteers) said that it was ok to create a second account for the sole purpose of giving your primary account two houses. I apologize for the miscommunication and inconsistency: there's a lot going on all the time and sometimes we'll get out of sync and either not communicate everything internally or not communicate everything properly to the guides. We're always trying to improve and build better processes to discuss the ramifications of new features, but we will sometimes fail. When that happens, it's our fault and no player is going to be punished for it.
Indeed, we're not out to punish people for anything (other than the obvious: griefing, harassing and generally just trying to make life miserable for other players). And we do not just go around arbitrarily banning/suspending/deleting accounts — when we think someone is doing something they oughtn't, we proactively get in touch with them (with a question or a warning or a clarification of our policies, depending on the situation).
* * *
All feedback is welcome, but a time-saving bit of forewarning: if you are the type inclined to make arguments of the form "A is like B and B is like C and C is like D so you can see that A and D are really just exactly the same thing …" when A and D are obviously different, you'll be wasting your time.
(I went to grad school for philosophy and *literally* spent several months —months I will never get back, mind— thinking about how if you have a heap of sand and you remove just one grain, you still have a heap of sand … and yet at some point you'll get to the last grain of sand and obviously that's not a heap. It's kind of intellectually interesting for a while, but you're not going to convince us that creating a secondary account for the sole purpose of giving your main character another house is the same thing as playing Glitch with your spouse or friend.)

Posted 12 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink

### Replies

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- Thank you for posting this!
  Posted 12 months ago by Rook | Permalink
- Stoot, I love you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for clarifying. My new little bog-dwelling scavenger alt thanks you very, very much.
  Posted 12 months ago by Delyth | Permalink
- Thanks for clarification. :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Lady Cailia | Permalink
- Thanks for posting on this, and I really appreciate the tenor of your message. But, to be perfectly clear: does that mean that no key sharing between current alts will be allowed, or that key sharing would be allowed if the alt is played regularly and is a "real character," also given that they are not played at the same time?
  Just wondering if I am supposed to revoke keys or not.
  Posted 12 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale | Permalink
- Thank you, Stoot. Hopefully this will calm a bunch of players down.
  Posted 12 months ago by Myuki | Permalink
- Thank you for clarifying. :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Drakani | Permalink
- Stoot, I also love you. And I very much admire your patience in dealing with all the craziness on the forums lately.
  Posted 12 months ago by Rev. Desdemona | Permalink
- Scarlett Bearsdale: If you haven't heard from us about something specific you should be doing, you don't need to anything.
  However, if you created an alt solely for the purpose of giving your main character another house, you should just revoke the key and play like a normal player :)
  Posted 12 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
- Thank You! xxx =)
  Posted 12 months ago by ~Scilly~ | Permalink
- Thanks Stoot.
  Posted 12 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale | Permalink
- THANK YOU!
  I and the Other One (a full-fledged character in his own right) are both grateful!
  Posted 12 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- I just don't understand WHY you care if we give an alt money for a house, especially if we USE it. Who cares if we are logged into one character more than another. I just don't see why that is a big deal.
  Posted 12 months ago by Hybie | Permalink
- wots normal LOL :D x
  Posted 12 months ago by Cryztal | Permalink
- Thanks for clearing all that up Stoot. Now I feel better by letting my husband, sister and friend come play with me! OMG I am soooo excited now! Thank you, Thank you, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! <sends huge bear hugs and presents>
  Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose | Permalink
- I don't remember which game had this in their rules, but it basically went 'If you actually have to sit down and think about if it's allows, it probably isn't."
  And no, one grain of sand is not a heap. Two grains, however, is. =P
  Posted 12 months ago by Aoi | Permalink
- Just to be clear, before anyone accuses guides of being "wrong" or whatever: whenever we asked directly and specifically about alternate accounts swapping keys, the player support staff told guides that it was okay (I'm a guide, and witnessed this repeatedly over the course of several days). We asked about this a LOT, and each time we were told that it was fine as long as it didn't violate the TOS or community guidelines, and that this didn't seem to (anyone could access a friend's house with a key, so why not an alternate account's house?). That's why we were giving out what is now misinformation. As soon as we were informed of the change, guides and staff alike changed the way we answer that question.
  Posted 12 months ago by glum pudding | Permalink
- Thanks for the clarification stoot. Calm and reasonable, which is a relief after the hysterical pitch of the forums last night.
  Posted 12 months ago by Oakland | Permalink
- I agree and thank you for this:) Some of the other games that i USED to play used the IP as a way to track for everything, and it was widely known that IP addresses were tracked. However, I have learned on this that that (yes, two thats for a reason) is not the case. I was introduced to this game by my brother:) He gave me a key to his house to introduce me into some of the, as he puts it "cooler" aspects of the game such as actually owning a house. Since then, I have bought my own house, made a few friends and given my key to him and someone else I leased my herb plots to. I really appreciate you clearing this up. Also, I love the "badges" (i.e. "Guide" or "Staff"). I just think that helps players know who's who:)
  On another note, can anyone teach me about mining? I just got mining I (I am headed towards Teleportation, as I think it sounds cool) and if anyone has any tips/help they can share, please do so!
  Posted 12 months ago by usterki | Permalink
- "I just don't understand WHY you care if we give an alt money for a house, especially if we USE it. Who cares if we are logged into one character more than another. I just don't see why that is a big deal."
  Incredible control over resources. I ran the math on this a while ago so the numbers are slightly off, but at the time, a network of around 20 interlinked characters could corner the market on any treebound resource.
  Posted 12 months ago by Aoi | Permalink
- I think the bit about which character provides the money for the house is a little irrelevant and ought to be taken out. I originally made my alt to provide a bog house for me and friends, but the alt earned its own money to pay for the house. Also motivation shouldn't matter. What if I made an alt for playing the game a different way, and then *later* thought, ooh, it can share keys with larky? The end result is the same as if I made it solely for getting an extra house; I have an extra house. (Keys have since been revoked, so I am not worried about any ToS violations.)
  Posted 12 months ago by larky lion | Permalink
- OMG!! TY! TY! TY!!
  I can, once again, now go back to enjoying this game that I love soooo much!!
  Posted 12 months ago by sgjo | Permalink
- Thanks for the clear explanation of a sensible policy. Like the porridge that Goldilocks ate, it seems just right!
  Posted 12 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- From my perspective, the best thing about this is: Stoot and TS are running an enterprise that listens to its players. This is not a legalistic, hide-bound, rule-based solution; it is a sensible, thoughtful, humane (glitchistic?) solution.
  Thank you!
  Posted 12 months ago by Fluxan | Permalink
- @larky lion: As I understand it, if you have a fully-developed alternate character, NOT created for the sole purpose of providing a second home, it's OKAY to share keys.
  Posted 12 months ago by Pascale | Permalink
- Wow, thank you Stoot for the huge amount of clarification!! <3 :: Loves ::
  Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ | Permalink
- I just don't understand WHY you care if we give an alt money for a house, especially if we USE it. Who cares if we are logged into one character more than another. I just don't see why that is a big deal.
  That appears to be clearly stated by Stoot:
  However, we don't want people creating secondary accounts simply for the purpose of giving the real character an advantage they would not otherwise have or doing something which would otherwise be impossible.
  Although it frustrates some people, the designers of the game have made it such that you can grow herbs if you live in the bogs, and you can't if you don't. You have to CHOOSE. There's nothing stopping you from starting out as a light dweller, choosing to be a bog dweller for awhile and then switching to being a light dweller again. That's possible. Buying a second house in the bogs? Not possible. Thus, buying a second house in the bogs via an alt - against the rules, as stated in the OP.
  Posted 12 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- Thank you for the clarifications Stoot. It was kind of amusing for a while to see how people went from "abusing alts isn't ok" to "OMG! We're all going to be doomed!" but hopefully we can all get back to pig nibbling and chicken squeezing now.
  Posted 12 months ago by Heatseeker | Permalink
- "having the second character buy a house and give a key to the main character and then just continuing to play the new character as one who effectively owns two houses."
  if one has the typical "friend or spouse" situation where the "friend or spouse" simply doesn't play very much but was given money for a house .. that's fine, correct?
  is the situation sort of an honor system then? or at least until the point where the advantage is so great that it triggers some kind of investigation?
  the policy makes sense, though i'm curious about how it will be enforced.
  Posted 12 months ago by striatic | Permalink
- Thanks for the clarity! I played up both my characters and had them buy their own houses before we could even share keys; I'm glad to hear I didn't inadvertently step over the line when keys came out :)
  Posted 12 months ago by Nixified | Permalink
- My thoughts on alts and sharing resources and keys: It's not a matter of "yes, you can" or "no, you can't" as stoot explained it. It's all about the reason for doing so.
  For example, WalruZ said: "There's nothing stopping you from starting out as a light dweller, choosing to be a bog dweller for awhile and then switching to being a light dweller again."... and there's also nothing stopping the bog dweller from sending the light dweller a whole bunch of herbs. However if you created the bog dweller as an alt for the sole purpose of sending herbs to your light dweller, then that's not allowed. Which makes sense (to me at least).
  To put it another way: If you create an alt bog dweller account to grow and send herbs to a main light dweller, so that the light dweller can make potions, etc, that's a no-no. However, if you create an alt bog dweller account to grow herbs and make their own potions, that's perfectly okay (as long as the bog dweller isn't simply sending the potions to the light dweller to give the light dweller an advantage). Sharing house keys between the two is fine, as they both have different purposes.
  Posted 12 months ago by Xain | Permalink
- Ok, maybe I'm just being dense here, but I'm still not 100% sure if it is ok if alts exchange keys. Yes, I see where it says it is not ok if the sole purpose of creating a second character and having them buy a house was to give the original character two houses. But if we actively play both characters, is it ok to exchange keys then?
  Posted 12 months ago by Trekkie Gal | Permalink
- Thanks for the feedback stoot, woot woot.
  I would like some clarification on the question Striatic posted, as I know someone with more than one key given by friends who don't play the game often. I wouldn't want him to get in trouble, though I do expect and have faith he would be warned and/or given opportunity to explain.
  Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- But Stoot, what if I have a heap of sand and a I create an alt. Then I take a grain of sand and give it to my alt. At what point does my alt have a heap of sand? And do we both have the same heaps of sand, just in different places or is it two different heaps of sand but the same person? And what is the sound of one hand clapping if the other hand is holding a grain of sand?
  See, this game makes my brain hurt sometimes.
  Posted 12 months ago by Griselda | Permalink
- So I guess you'll be giving my friends their accounts back then? Their alt accounts were deleted a few weeks ago.
  Posted 12 months ago by Slutberry Shortcake | Permalink
- Xain - it's not possible for one character to buy two houses. Therefore it's not allowable (as Stoot said) to use an alt to buy a house for the primary character. I agree with the rest of your post.
  Posted 12 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- Slutberry, if their alts were being used to give their main character an advantage, then no, they shouldn't expect them back.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- Trekkie Gal, you are not being dense. It is still not clear where TS wants to draw the line between fair and unfair.
  Posted 12 months ago by larky lion | Permalink
- @WalruZ: Fair enough. I did misinterpret your statement after all. I will edit my post.
  Posted 12 months ago by Xain | Permalink
- @Griz i love you.
  Posted 12 months ago by Rev. Desdemona | Permalink
- I would have preferred a different outcome. But stoot's post is sensible and clear enough that I find the new rule is something I'll gladly comply with. (I already revoked a very controversial key.)
  There certainly is a gray area between fair and unfair. But I'm sure TS will err on the kinder side.
  Posted 12 months ago by Ximenez | Permalink
- Bastian: What is that?
  The Childlike Empress: One grain of sand. It is all that remains of my vast empire.
  Bastian: Fantasia has totally disappeared?
  The Childlike Empress: Yes.
  Bastian: Then, everything's been in vain.
  The Childlike Empress: No, it hasn't. Fantasia can arise anew, from your dreams and wishes, Bastian.
  ...
  Bastian: How many wishes do I get?
  The Childlike Empress: As many as you want. And the more wishes you make, the more magnificent Fantasia will become.
  Bastian: Really?
  The Childlike Empress: Try it.
  Bastian: My first wish is...
  Posted 12 months ago by Jennyanydots | Permalink
- "And what is the sound of one hand clapping if the other hand is holding a grain of sand?"
  And if you clap your hand in the forest, holding a grain of sand, do the bubble trees hear it?
  If a bean tree drops a bean in the forst, does that make a sound?
  And does the light in the inside of the blockmaker go out if you close the door?
  Posted 12 months ago by Louis Louisson | Permalink
- Okay, well you got me. I have a bog house alt. I saw a post saying it was okay and when these new skills came in I wanted to play with herbs. I tried going to the public gardens but I got abuse the second I zoned in. Finding a plot is hard enough now, waiting till things are grown is just something I'm not gonna do at current time rates.
  I don't seem to be alone in this and the combo of keyrings and potions has pushed this to the forefront. So from where I'm sitting it seems that players have been using (...abusing?) this to get around a problem they've come across in/with the game. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd like to see this addressed so that people like me don't want a second house etc (and I really didn't want a second account and the pita it takes to run!).
  Thanks!
  Posted 12 months ago by Douro | Permalink
- I really appreciate this response from the great Stoot himself, but I'm am still unclear on the specific rules myself. Per Stoot: "we don't want people creating secondary accounts simply for the purpose of giving the real character an advantage they would not otherwise have or doing something which would otherwise be impossible."
  "Giving the real character an advantage they would not otherwise have"... what does that mean? That could mean anything, really. It could even mean that you're not allowed to collect meat from an alt character's meat collector, or send a single herb seed to one of your alts (or a beer, or anything else), because that character would not have had that herb seed or beer, or whatever, if your other character didn't send it to them. Where is the line drawn? The only specific examples we have are the extreme:
  "So, to be explicit, this is not allowed: creating a secondary account, using the first character to give the new character the money to buy a house, having the second character buy a house and give a key to the main character and then just continuing to play the new character as one who effectively owns two houses."
  Sure, that makes sense and is totally understandable, but there are plenty of other more minor behaviors that could break the first statement, and I really don't know which would be considered appropriate, and which not. I'm still totally confused, although I am glad to hear an official word on the extreme points, at least. OK: it's not OK to buy your alt a house. Is it OK to buy your alt a beer? Or a cauldron? Where is the line?
  Posted 12 months ago by Shepherdmoon | Permalink
- "...it seems that players have been using... this to get around a problem they've come across in/with the game."
  And the problem is having to make choices? That seems like a strength to me. We can't have all things... at least not easily and not right this second.
  Posted 12 months ago by Lord Bacon-o | Permalink
- I have two questions that I don't think have been answered:
  1. Can our alts have keys to our main houses?
  2. If we actively play both accounts can they exchange keys?
  Posted 12 months ago by heartNadia | Permalink
- Shepherdmoon: "Giving the real character an advantage they would not otherwise have" is not the complete sentence. Quoting this out of context changes the meaning of the OP. The complete sentence is "we don't want people creating secondary accounts simply for the purpose of giving the real character an advantage they would not otherwise have or doing something which would otherwise be impossible". If you want to take only parts of it you could come up with things like "we don't want people creating secondary accounts", which is clearly false.
  (As I wrote before, I would have preferred a different outcome, but I don't find stoot's post to be unclear, even with gray areas remaining.)
  Posted 12 months ago by Ximenez | Permalink
- Adding to heartNadia's list:
  3. If they can exchange keys, what are they allowed to do and not allowed to do inside one another's houses?
  Posted 12 months ago by Shepherdmoon | Permalink
- @jennyanydots : + eleventy-billion
  I lubs u
  Posted 12 months ago by bludwaggie | Permalink
- Ximenez, apparently you didn't read my whole post because I did actually quote that entire sentence. After quoting the whole sentence, I then picked out the part I wanted clarification on. Plus, the "or" in between those statements implies that both of those can be considered against the rules independently, and are not necessarily linked.
  Posted 12 months ago by Shepherdmoon | Permalink

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