Topic

Global chat chaos!

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on the long heated exchange in global yesterday ??? (hint: it involved the use of a certain non pc term) I've never seen it so angry before. I'm not complaining (I found it very amusing). Blankey even had to come in and chill everyone out. Beta was so friendly that I wonder how players will react if heated debates happen  more often. Discuss:

Posted 15 months ago by erik Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I think there have been "discussions" like this before, but maybe there were less people in Global Chat back then? The event yesterday was hardly a discussion and the constant references to the family game thread on the forum (*herp cheese derp*) annoyed me.

    I think all the new players need a little time to adjust to Glitch. This isn't WoW, CoD or 4chan, to name a few. I'm positive it will be a lot better after a few days/weeks.
    Posted 15 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Were they all new players??? I kinda assumed, but did not check.
    Posted 15 months ago by erik Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh gosh, not the 4chan crowd.
    Posted 15 months ago by ☠ lala512 ☠ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It was a mix of old and new players, yesterday, because I didn't recognize a lot of names.  This is bound to happen more as we get new people, before they shut down global chat. Through beta, I did do a lot of talking in the global chat, but over the past week, since it opened, I've definitely been closing the window more often. We'll definitely need to learn to work with it and remember that we were all new at one time. We might've had questions, we might not have learned the general chat etiquette yet, We're all a little hot tempered, which could be because something we've come to know and love, the people that we've come to enjoy, is suddenly changing with the new crowd.

    There are a few threads already, discussing manners and appropriateness of conversation topics, so I'm not going to go into that here, But we did have a few times in global where a moderator had to step in. I'm with Victoria, I hope that things will improve, though it'll probably take a couple weeks. It's the internet, and words don't come out the same when typed. We all know that. The best we can do is try to respect whoever we can, and the rest will either learn to adapt to the community or will hopefully tire of whatever attitude they might have and calm down on their own.
    Posted 15 months ago by Jia-pop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I did do a lot of talking in the global chat, but over the past week, since it opened, I've definitely been closing the window more often"

    This. Not that I was always on there chatting and palling around during beta, but the latter for sure. It's partially why I voted for a Regional chat.

    I think Groups need to take a larger role in facilitating good, lively discourse as we step away from Global.
    Posted 15 months ago by shipwreck Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought Global Chat was going away?
    Posted 15 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wondered if that would happen.. I made the decision yesterday to not have GC open any more - probably before this heated exchange.. glad I made that decision now.  I'll stick to my few groups and IMs I think.. much less stressful..
    Posted 15 months ago by icatchm0nkeys Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What happened exactly? Too bad I wasn't there.
    Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't need it needs to be brought up again. But it's already been said that Global chat will go away soon. So....make friends with your groups now!
    Posted 15 months ago by Jia-pop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How can new players adjust in global chat if all "old" players step away from it?

    The most occuring behaviour will be the standard behaviour that most people will adapt too. For instance, if 1337-speak is happening a lot in global, people will do it in other chats too. Because it's normal. Walking away doesn't make people start talking with normal words (not leet-speak.)
    Posted 15 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've long abandoned Global. It's just too crazy and unless all I do is chat, I can't keep up and play at the same time. Group chat is fine with me.
    Posted 15 months ago by Jhennauchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I too stopped going into global chat only a few hours after the game was launched. So many people were talking at the same time - It was too much for me.
    Posted 15 months ago by Codex Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What were these terms? I'm just going to assume GAY was thrown around a lot. The staff had once promised gay individuals such as myself certain protections but at the same time we're left to fend for ourselves. And if it IS that term there was once a MASSIVE discussion about it. One player tried to harass me to the point of leaving because of it but luckily he ended up being the one so turned off that he left, THANK GOODNESS.
    Posted 15 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I thought global chat was gone and the "global chat" tab was just the tab for the group?   We still have global chat?

    Oh dear, I see that the word gay was thrown around?  that bothers people?  somebody on the subway had two pickles and I was a bit surprised and commented on it.  Later I said it was "ghey" and didn't get a response.  I thought it was just funny he had two he was playing with at once on the subway.  

    That sort of thing is going to offend people?
    Posted 15 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • and I even used the word in the wrong way...which is, I guess, ghey.   
    Posted 15 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I never use global chat - I do it old school like the ultima online games if their near me it's the only time  i can see people talk
    Posted 15 months ago by Chosen Predator Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Of course it does Treesa. It is a term that is used by many in a dergoatory way, when it truth it is a perfectly good word when properly used.

    How would you feel if your name became a commonly used slander work on the internet simply because someone did not like YOU and started a trend? Anytime someone was angry, they would call the subject of their anger "Treesa." Soon you would be overhearing your name used in contest ONLY with negative implication. Childish teens would snigger behind your back when you said your name. You would get raised eyebrows when you gave your name at Starbucks for your order.

    Not an exact analogy, I know, but what I am trying to get at is that "gay" is not just a randomly chosen work to communicate dislike. It has directly come from making a dergoatory comment about a community. Not unlike the "n word" that we know not to use, or calling people "dumb Swedes" or "rag heads" or many equally ignorant, disparaging descriptives.

    Honestly, in this day and age, I am astonished that anyone has to question whether using "gay" in a general derogatory way is acceptable.
    Posted 15 months ago by Kookaburra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just ignore me then.     I wasn't angry, I was just amused by the two pickles.  I didn't really even use the term in the way that I should have (which means lame, according to the urban dictionary, and is supposedly not derogatory toward homosexual people).  

    I can be really lame sometimes.  Sorry if anyone was offended.    
    And I didn't use the term in the context of an angry exchange.  That, obviously, would have been worse.
    Posted 15 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Treesa, if you read about *all* the meanings of "ghey" in the urban dictionary, it might help you to understand its offensiveness.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ghey

    @everyone else:
    It looks to me like the topic of discussion here is not what triggered the chaos, but "how players will react if heated debates happen more often."
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It wasn't the word 'gay'. Others have said it's not really a good idea to repeat what was actually said, it would only stir things up again, so please don't speculate.
    Posted 15 months ago by Theremina Lute Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eric, do you mean, for example, will it drive people away?

    Or do you want to discuss how to respond to it? If so, there are some discussions about that in the Off-Topic forum.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh good gosh, here we go again.....
    Posted 15 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'll summarize what I see as responses to the topic:

    1. Learn to work with it and remember that we were all new at one time.
    2. Try to respect whoever we can, and the rest will either learn to adapt to the community or will hopefully tire of whatever attitude they might have and calm down on their own.
    3. Groups need to take a larger role in facilitating good, lively discourse as we step away from Global.
    4. Keep GC closed while you're playing.
    5. Make friends with your groups now!
    6. Experienced players try to set an example in GC.
    7. What to do about words and language that some people don't want to see ("Freedom and Responsibility" in the Off-Topic Forum).
    8. It will be a lot better after a few days/weeks.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My hope for Glitch is it that will be somewhere I don't constantly have to explain the downsides of using "gay", "lame", "retard", etc as derogatory terms.  Not because everyone coming into the game will already know this, but because there will be enough clued-in people around on global and local chat that we can share the burden between us.
    Posted 15 months ago by Kake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh man. I get why you don't want to rehash, but I just want you to know that I am now dying of curiosity of what the drama was! 
    Posted 15 months ago by La_La Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I didn't speculate, I asked and then said "if that was the case." Please don't put words into the mouths of others.

    As for people that have a problem with people expressing concern over other people saying things to oppress or harm others, you're just as bad as those individuals for condoning that type of action. 

    Anyway, don't bother replying to this for the sake of having a discussion with me. I'm leaving the thread, because there's no point in 1) reiterating what people that are right have said and 2) challenging people dumb enough to be wrong about something so basic, anyway, because they're never going to get it.
    Posted 15 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on the long heated exchange in global yesterday ??? [...] I've never seen it so angry before. I'm not complaining (I found it very amusing). Blankey even had to come in and chill everyone out. Beta was so friendly that I wonder how players will react if heated debates happen  more often. Discuss:"

    People are sheep. They follow others, and feel the need to react when they feel attacked. They get into a defensive position (or attacking position) themselves. Both sides can't have a normal discussion - when you are offensive or defensive you are not susceptible to consious, wellthought decision making. You can't be persuaded to change sides.

    People need to feel safe, calm or interested to be able to think consciously about things.
    So a heated discussion will most likely will get only hotter untill it explodes and some people leave (log out angry/ upset). There will be some aftertalk, some after-fighting, some people on blacklists and some people who might quit. Then it will be quiet, untill it is posted again on the forum. (As it is written words, which last "forever" - so even 3 months from now someone can still read it and get angry over it again, while it might have been forgotten by most if it wasn't written down.)

    So how will players react if heated discussion happens more often?
    Some get upset and leave. Mostly the ones who are hurt will leave, occasionally someone who was the instigator will leave. (Does the bully leave or the victim?)
    There will be a call for more moderation, more rules. We so called "adults" can't behave without having other adults telling us what is and isn't allowed. That ofcourse can't be the same adults as we are, there has to be a hiërarchy (unfortunately).
    So more rules. More No's. More NOT ALLOWED. BANNED. BLOCKED. more negativity.

    So how could you prevent it getting a negative spiral? That would be hard. Maybe temporarily disable global chat? Give Global chat a time-out, or give people something else to talk about. A Game-event. Distracting people (like you distract kids). (only if they know they are going to get a treat if they fight they fight more...) How do you prevent kids from fighting? You can't. How do you prevent it from getting worse? Exactly, YOU do. When kids are fighting, and they are both offensive, then they won't stop untill someone is seriously hurt, they can't reason with one another. The adult has to pull them apart and make them feel bad about their behaviour. Tell them that is wrong.
    Rewarding (as is the trend nowadays, short-term rewards which have no real value like achievements (sorry for saying that)), is much harder in an online game.
    Start a game event if they have not been fighting (then you still use the words "not" and "fighting", thus focusing on that rather then the good behaviour.)

    Start a game event after x amounts of collaboration maybe? After x amounts of musicblocks are played for others, after x amount of radiation. After cleaning x amounts of plots or watering plots.

    Hmm. It's time for bed. Waaay past bedtime... I am getting too philosophical and long-winded about stuff.... nighty all!
    Posted 15 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Let's just say that it was a gigantic, immature debate on what old and new terms would be considered racist after one of the chatters used a word some people took offense to. Neither the word(s), nor the fight, have a place in Glitch, in my opinion. Not worth debating here, in an on-topic general forum, either. 

    I was pretty turned off by the whole thing, and direction everything was headed, and reported it wherever I could. Blanky shut it down shortly after, but I believe it lasted for like 20 or 30 mins. Is that what everyone wants the newer community to see us as? A bunch of grown people fighting with each other?
    Posted 15 months ago by moowi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Revised summary:

    A. How will players react?

    1. It will be a lot better after a few days/weeks.
    2. Maybe there will be enough clued-in people around on global and local chat to share the burden of explaining the offensiveness of some words to some people.
    3. Some will get upset and leave.
    4. There will be a call for more moderation, more rules.

    B. What to do about it.

    1. Learn to work with it and remember that we were all new at one time.
    2. Try to respect whoever we can, and the rest will either learn to adapt to the community or will hopefully tire of whatever attitude they might have and calm down on their own.
    3. Groups need to take a larger role in facilitating good, lively discourse as we step away from Global.
    4. Keep GC closed while you're playing.
    5. Make friends with your groups now!
    6. Experienced players try to set an example in GC.
    7. What to do about words and language that some people don't want to see ("Freedom and Responsibility" thread in the Off-Topic Forum).
    8. Temporarily disable global chat.
    9. Give people something else to talk about.
    10. Separate the feuding parties and tell them that they're wrong.
    11. Reward people who have not been feuding, with a game event for example.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • beat=nice
    open=crazy a$$ $hit

    :) that's about it
    Posted 15 months ago by phelps.mike Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I did in fact miss this, but when I left Global earlier that day, people were already being pretty unpleasant towards each other and trying to purposefully push the boundaries of acceptable/offensive/mean.
    I don't know how long after I left that it happened, but I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if the answer was within a couple of minutes. I think at least a couple of people were in a cranky mood, and at least one was in a "Let's piss everyone off" mood, though I wouldn't be able to remember who. Maybe everyone had a simultaneous bad day and consciously or unconsciously let it affect their chatting?

    In any case, I think that it is great that a staff member popped in and said, Hey guys, cut it out, as it helps people accurately define the boundaries and hopefully prevents the same people at least from making the same mistakes again.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You can try to change the language... but doing it with hate and defensiveness won't work..! ;p
    Posted 15 months ago by FlirtyvonSexenhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol, I called something retarded on the forums once, and got some passive-aggressive judgement heaped upon me ^_^

    It's all fun and games till someone says something about a label which fits on you.
    Posted 15 months ago by Btaylor Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You see..?

    It's not as though our friend btaylor is right... farbeit from either of us to tell someone not to be offended by the label.  But nobody is going to change their minds over some reactionary flak in public chat.  You have to be far, far more clever than that!  I'm sure you'll think of something...
    Posted 15 months ago by FlirtyvonSexenhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Both incidents by Arcana, yesterday and LaurenR, today were mirror-images of each other, so I'm not sure they're entirely isolated events. Both included racist statements that were met with a handful of responses of "Um...wtf?". Both people, then proceeded to get pissy because someone (well, 3 or 4 people) said something and they then defended these bigoted terms. Each person had 2 people ready to defend them. Each time Blanky stepped in basically to act as a shield for the person who made the bigoted statement.

    Difference today, was after LaurenR's post, it was pretty much dropped. For a few minutes, there were 3 other topics being discussed, then LaurenR popped back up to bring the focus back on her with 3 comments, which I did call out. There were no need to rehash it, IMO. At this point, I was called a troll by Lauren, imm and Blanky, which is...not really making me want to stay here. I guess to them, a "troll" is being the grownup in the room. 

    If Tiny Speck has a policy where derogatory and bigoted statements are allowed and "trolls are...cute", in Blanky's words, then I'd like to see that in TOS. A responsible company wouldn't have someone come in with a "Guys, please, calm down." A responsible company would nip this shit in the bud, if only to avoid bad PR.  But seeing Cerulean's post up above, I'm not sure this is a responsible company. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Jarhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jarhaven, I didn't read Blanky's comment as directed at you. 

    I saw her trying to defuse the issue with humor that wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
    Posted 15 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jarhaven, Cerulean is not an official of TS, he is 1/nth of the community. We are all only 1/nth of the community. Unfortunately, it takes only a random 1/nth of the community to upset the other n-1/nth.
    If you posted something along the line of: "Please, let it drop." then I don't cosider that trolling. I probably would have chimed in if I saw it, though I shouldn't do that, so as to not give it more attention.

    I agree with Biohazard, that staff does need to step in. I don't think that staff should or can monitor global chat constantly though, imagine having to monitor it for 4 hrs.... poor moderator...
    Posted 15 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Jarhaven, I am very, very sorry that my comment seemed to be directed at you. I was not trying to intimate in any way that you were being a troll. I popped into the conversation before receiving the full context (bad on me), and was trying to guide people towards a less contentious topic. Racial slurs are *not* ok in any of our chats, and individuals using them are warned to discontinue the behavior immediately.
    Posted 15 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ...things like this are why I wish that the "block" function would make us auto-ignore anything said by the blocked person in all chats, rather than just stop the friending/trading. So much easier just to go "/block" and be done with it forever rather than putting up with certain people pulling the same stuff multiple times, spamming up chat, or just general dickheadishness.
    Posted 15 months ago by Seylah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A block function never helps in an open chat or forum, because you will still see responses by others to whatever the person said.  Hearing only half a conversation is even more likely to lead to misunderstandings and problems.
    Posted 15 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Revised summary of what I see responding to the topic:

    A. How will players react?

    1. It will be a lot better after a few days/weeks.
    2. Maybe there will be enough clued-in people around on global and local chat to share the burden of explaining the offensiveness of some words to some people.
    3. Some will get upset and leave.
    4. There will be a call for more moderation, more rules.

    B. What to do about it.

    1. Learn to work with it and remember that we were all new at one time.
    2. Try to respect whoever we can, and the rest will either learn to adapt to the community or will hopefully tire of whatever attitude they might have and calm down on their own.
    3. Groups need to take a larger role in facilitating good, lively discourse as we step away from Global.
    4. Keep GC closed while you're playing.
    5. Make friends with your groups now!
    6. Experienced players try to set an example in GC.
    7. What to do about words and language that some people don't want to see ("Freedom and Responsibility" thread in the Off-Topic Forum).
    8. Temporarily disable global chat.
    9. Give people something else to talk about.
    10. Separate the feuding parties and tell them that they're wrong.
    11. Reward people who have not been feuding, with a game event for example.
    12. People who see feuding report it to the staff.
    13. Maybe the other person had a really bad day, I mean *really* bad day.
    14. Avoid hate and defensiveness.
    15. Use your intelligence, imagination, wit and charm to get consideration for your concerns, rather than just saying whatever pops into your head.
    16. Try to learn more about the context before reacting.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've had GC open for a few hours this morning and it was allright. Some of the people present where the same that were there during this "incident". Just to say that GC is different every day, hour, minute.

    The most annoying I saw today was a very impatient young man (my guess) that was shouting and throwing in profanities wherever he could. Told me to go back to the kitchen when I commented on it. Hey... I wás wearing my apron, so I just laughed and hugged him :)

    (Uhm... Ferond, why are you summarizing?)
    Posted 15 months ago by Victoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • He made a TLDR for my post, as I failed at it ;)
    Posted 15 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Blanky, it read as directed at me, since it was those 2 who were calling me a troll. Me. The who one who didn't make the bigoted remark and tried to defend it. Right.

    Anyway, my point still stands. There must be some more stringent rules and having staff come in with a milquetoast response, isn't helpful.

    I am also expecting a repeat of the whole thing, today. This seems too coordinated.
    Posted 15 months ago by Jarhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Please use the report abuse feature in world when incidents like this occur. 

    Although we may not be able to share the outcome with you, we follow up on every abuse report and will take any appropriate actions. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Araldia Subscriber! | Permalink