Topic

Why not block the defenders of thieving as a way to make home-street stealing less attractive?

It was suggested in Global Chat that there is a simple way to make home-street stealing less convenient and much less attractive. 

Blocking a person keeps that person from coming into your home street. 

I look forward to seeing Tiny Speck create a simple and just solution to this problem, as they did with the herb-garden stealing "gameplay." Until they fix it, doing something for ourselves is better than nothing. 

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edit: I just want to respond to a couple of mistaken interpretations of what I said here and what I meant here. Perhaps I was too condensed, and if so the thread below has made up for it by becoming TLDR and full of poo-flinging.

By "defenders of thieving" I did not mean "people who have expressed a philosophical point that stuff left on home streets can be taken but not 'stolen.'" By "defenders of thieving" I meant people who were actively and multiply expressing an interest in the question of "stealing" with an emphasis on sneering and sniggering at the disappointed folks whose attempt to be generous had left them missing some property taken from their home streets. People who laugh at others feeling grief are, in my opinion "trolls and bullies." Furthermore, people who repeatedly defend item "takers" and sneer at people who had items taken from them are, in my opinion, promoting and enabling the actual thieves, whether or not they themselves pick up random items. 

The point of this post is that something has changed in Glitch since, 4 days ago, blocking somebody keeps that person from coming to your home street. That is, when enough people block somebody, that person will be inconvenienced in harvesting by making circuits through other people's home streets. My hope was that, if people used blocking to indicate their disapproval of trolling and bullying that related to street theft, it would discourage some glitchen from posting about how street-thieves were Glitch's own Robin Hoods while the people who tried to share feeders and butterfly milkers and street decorations are low-IQ whiners who simply deserve to lose everything. 

Operationally, if we use blocking to express our opinion that x or y or z is a troll or a bully, only the most universally obvious trolls and bullies will be inconvenienced in any way. And that is just as it should be.

Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • "Players you block are no longer able to visit your Home Street. It's kind of like a Glitch restraining order without the paperwork. 4 days ago."

    Erm, didn't they already do this? Or is this a PSA kinda thing, like you're reminding people to block? I'm kinda confused :)
    Posted 9 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Right.......we can block them from our street. Here is the problem, though. I have no clue who is taking the stuff from my street. There is no log, so I cant see who I need to block.  Until some way is added to lock items, I will just be removing them (and my pigs) from my street.

    Not gonna stress over it anymore. Just wont be going out of my way to help others by providing items, either.
    Posted 9 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The new greeter we'll be setting in R2 might help with that?  I hope.  then those thieves better watch out! :)

    I had someone(s) nice give me a feeder, meat collector, and milker.  It lasted on my street for about 3 days.  Today they were all gone.  So sad that someone would take them when they were gifts.  But again, it's not something I stress about.  :)
    Posted 9 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know who is taking stuff but I disagree that we have no clue. I think we do have a clue (based on similar defense-of-thieving behavior when the herb gardens were plagued by quite a small number of repeat thieves.)

    Some of the thieves are very likely to be the people repeatedly claiming that thieves are not "really" stealing, and that we should all get mad instead at people "whining" about their stolen items. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, by "no clue" I'm saying that we can't really pin point it to a player.
    Posted 9 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have no clue, and as for forum threads about the gardens, I don't pay much attention so don't know if it is relevant or not.

    Still best not to stress, and not put out anything on the street you care not to lose. :)

    Big Smiley Face to all. :)
    Posted 9 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nice one, Vocable, hope you never need to be a member of a jury. So basically, because someone else doesn't happen to agree with your definition of thievery everyone should block them, just in case like?
    Posted 9 months ago by Troll Doll Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Troll Doll, trolling can be lots of fun for the troller. Now the rest of us have a way to make public trolling less fun.

    The new feature of blocking (excluding folks from your home street) has a new public aspect that blocking did not have before -- I guess that's the PSA here, as Liza puts it. 

    If enough people start blocking repeat trolls and bullies, being banned from many streets will make it harder to steal stuff as well as offering daily reminders that their hip fun edgy supercool gameplay style is not welcomed by one and all. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It sounds like you're proposing some blacklist of players that you think might be thieves because of what they post in the forums.  That seems unlikely to be useful since that would leave out all thieves who don't post or those who you don't happen to notice disagreeing with you.

    Maybe what would better for you is a feature to block all non-friends.  Or perhaps when imagination comes in, players will be able to erect a huge fence around "their" street so that people have to buzz in (making the street work the same as the house).
    Posted 9 months ago by Janitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am not proposing any blacklist creation or any exclusion of non-friends from people's streets. 

    I am simply pointing out that if large numbers of players choose to block those whose antisocial gameplay styles are offensive, said players will be at least somewhat inconvenienced in pursuing antisocial gameplay. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My preference, for what it's worth, is just to have things non-takeable, unless someone has a key.  That way I can decorate my street without knowing it won't stay the way I want for long, but glitchen can still jump from my house to others.  Don't mind people stopping in, and I don't put stuff out that I don't want taken, but I would like the option to put stuff out and have it stay.  That would make me a happier glitch.
    Posted 9 months ago by kat65 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree kat65.  After having feeders/collectors taken a couple times I have just removed them all and won't put any back unless they can be locked down.  I would like the idea of people being able to come pet my pigs, chickens, etc, but it won't happen as I've removed them to my backyard.  "My street" will be a wasteland as it now stands.  Sad that a few players have forced many into this decision...
    Posted 9 months ago by Cabinwood Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hm. My still locks down on my street. My sticks do, too. So ... I would like to run with the idea and lock down a feeder too. That seems like a much better solution than people blocking each other without cause. 

    Make locks, not blocks!
    Posted 9 months ago by Aleph Zero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Integers "Make locks, not blocks" nice one!
    Posted 9 months ago by Janitch Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for @integers!
    Posted 9 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Aw, Janitch, now I have I Glitch crush on you :)
    Posted 9 months ago by Aleph Zero Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Make locks not blocks, I like that too. 

    Only TS can make locks, and they haven't yet done so. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My two cents, for what they are worth: (approx .02 USD)
    Some people play as defectors in any social game. Rather than worry about them, simply take them into account as a risk element, then play through with your strategy. We can't station snipers on our streets after all.
    Posted 9 months ago by MrVolare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just want to point out that some people make arguments in Global Chat in order to show an alternative viewpoint.  I have sometimes defended "stealing" in Global Chat, but I would personally never take items from another person's home or home street.  Please judge people on their actions, not on potentially out-of-context chat remarks :D
    Posted 9 months ago by Miss Portinari Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We can't? Darn, there goes that idea! 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This has been proposed ten billion times.
    Nobody wants to block people unless absolutely necessary.
    While I think that it doesn't break any rules if you "steal" from home streets, but if we just locked down feeders and collectors AND prevented collecting from them, all arguments solved. No complaints. And if the feeders and collectors were locked down but people could still take from them, everyone would be like, "It's not fair since my collecotrs are always empty!" You won't hear anyone going like, "It's not fair since I can't take or collct from feeders and collecotrs!" if we just locked down feeders and prevented from colecting all problems solved. No arguments or complaints.
    My $.02 USD
    Posted 9 months ago by AwesomeCardinal2000 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps "thieves" should read the forum and selectively only "steal" from the squeakiest wheels.
    Posted 9 months ago by Biff Beefbat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • .
    Posted 9 months ago by NightDraconis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, Biff Beefbat! then they'll be quiet and we can all have peace!
    Posted 9 months ago by AwesomeCardinal2000 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Make locks, not blocks! *chants*
    Posted 9 months ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, some time ago the feeders and collectors WERE locked to streets (I know, I helped someone test it on Global) but suddenly the lock was lifted, for whatever reason. Whatever the case may be, they're not locked to streets so if you want feeders and collectors, you may as well put them in your backyard because they're just money/donation items for players who want them.
    Posted 9 months ago by Ayasta Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Guys, if TS predicted the streets to be public, and they obviously have because they wouldn't make sense otherwise (we'd just spawn in our houses instead of our streets), then you just shouldn't put your stuff there. Why do you even need feeders and collectors in your street? Pigs feed on trees (it might be somewhat buggy lately), and collectors are for personal in-house use, if you want to be nice to someone just leave the pigs in your yard and leave them to be nibbled.
    I don't really understand weather it's greed (I want to collect all the meat!) or laziness (nibbling is too much work) that constantly spawns these kind of topics. Nibbling is fun and if you leave your pig in your street, I promise to pet it too! Twice! Leave some nicer stuff for other players, things like potions, essences, food, drinks and gems!
    Posted 9 months ago by Electric Wizard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's a better idea: Get rid of the home streets altogether.  There doesn't seem to be any real need for them to exist, unless I'm missing something.

    People want to approve everyone who visits their street -- kind of exactly like the control we already have over our houses and backyards under the old system.

    (Though, of course, people would still have that degree of control if they'd just bother to secure all their stuff behind the locked doors of their homes...  Why leave valuables out on the street in the first place? It doesn't make any sense.)
    Posted 9 months ago by E D D I E Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like to leave them there for people to take from as it is easy for me to leave that resource for people who pass by, and it provides more food in a gift-type way for a person rather than them having to nibble. And yeah, a lot of people on the routes do try to leave other things out for people too, and unfortunately sometimes one person would take everything, while if the feeders are locked down it's a resource that one person could take all the meat from yet later on there will be meat for another person as well.
    Posted 9 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think that these are a lot of good ideas to a serious problem. It is time to rise up in this world and make our voices heard for all serious causes.
    Posted 9 months ago by Haze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the streets as they are, thanks!
    Posted 9 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the streets too and have already blocked a few...a poet and I didn't know it!  : )
    Posted 9 months ago by ~Arabesque~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So.
    Do you complain when a trash man throws your trash away every week?
    I mean it's your stuff, outside your house, do you still get angry?

    "Hey! That's my trash, not someone's treasure!". -Grumble grumbles. Angry blinds shutting.-
    Posted 9 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, I don't complain when someone picks up my trash. And I certainly don't complain when a troll takes the trouble to visit this thread to alert everyone who might otherwise not have blocked him. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Vocable - I made a similar comment to your opening post a little while ago and received some...I'll say an irate response.  Those that defend 'a tad too much' make me wary of their game play, as as per your last post I've just blocked another! lol 
    Posted 9 months ago by ~Arabesque~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Casarat I remember back in the days of the herb-garden thefts, some of the biggest repeat thieves and trolls there also turned up regularly in the forum to denounce "whining" about such activity. That was what gave me the idea for this thread.

    Just to reply to something that a bunch of other people seem to assume, I am not upset about somebody taking my stuff. Nobody has taken my stuff. I have never, ever put anything out on my home street that a troll could remove. I am not stressed out by "defectors," I am simply calling people's attention to an anti-troll method that TS just gave all the rest of us.
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have been told that people have left things outside my house for being on the wood route.

    The issue?  I've never SEEN any of it, because I am only on certain hours (due to work and such) and it's always gone by then.

    It's annoying, but what can you do?  I was tempted to pick up a music block left on someone else's street, but I left it there because to me, it was for the person that was allowing us to use their street to pick spices.
    Posted 9 months ago by Synnia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It would be thieving if someone hacked the decoration panel, because the panel is designed to let you purchase and place objects in a persistent manner.

    I don't consider myself a "defender of thieving," but I do consider myself someone who thinks there is a new tool for placing objects in a persistent manner, and anyone who decides that just isn't enough for how much they need to place objects, they need to place objects in an area where you can't use that tool, so they're going to use the old one that creates no expectation of persistence whatsoever... is doing so at their own risk. Because it isn't designed to do that. 

    You can insist that it is, but it's not--we know that now, because they've released something that is

    So... probably block me?
    Posted 9 months ago by Pomegrandy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Or, to be blunt.
    It's not that people are defending thieving.
    It's we're tired of hearing your shit.

    In the sense of multiple threads about people leaving stuff outside on "their" street, and getting it taken.

    It just gets annoying.
    To the point of people saying, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.".
    Posted 9 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Pomegrandy Block you? First of all, I agree with you that people who put stealable objects out do so at their own risk, and second, even if I mildly disagreed with you or was super-confused by you, I wasn't suggesting that we block people for philosophical quibbles.

    And third, I have no idea what the decoration panel is.

    If, on the other hand, you were to say there is no difference between the nice trash man, who takes my trash every week (but never goes home with my garbage can or brass door knocker) and the glitch who picks up every bit of somebody's sharing-attempt from a home street, then if that were your philosophical position, I definitely would block you.

    @Volkov, to be blunt, "I don't give a damn" is a very different philosophical argument from "It isn't stealing." The argument I remember hearing from you was "It isn't stealing." If your actual philosophical position is that it is stealing, you might ask yourself why you have chosen to speak out as a supporter and enabler of thieving. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry, I should have been clearer--I was referring to the title of your post, taken literally. I'm technically a "defender of thieving," I just don't think that it's thieving, because I don't think that people should be dropping things which they believe should persistently belong to them. There is a supported way to do that now. They are choosing not to live in the world where everything is treated the way they'd like it to be.

    By decoration panel, I mean: http://i41.tinypic.com/2dv3i3s.jpg

    People can put out decor using a manner that supports how they believe those objects should be treated (folks can't move them), and if they choose not to, they are choosing not to. Maybe in the future home streets will have the decoration panel, in which case I would share their indignation if someone hacked it and stole their decoration-panel-placed furniture somehow. But of course that could not happen. Because that furniture and decor was designed to be persistent, whereas using drop object in your front yard isn't.
    Posted 9 months ago by Pomegrandy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh crap, people are misreading Gone With The Wind quotes.
    /EJECTS

    "@Volkov, to be blunt, "I don't give a damn" is a very different philosophical argument from "It isn't stealing." The argument I remember hearing from you was "It isn't stealing." If your actual philosophical position is that it is stealing, you might ask yourself why you have chosen to speak out as a supporter and enabler of thieving."

    I don't give a damn about bad stuff happening to people who more than likely deserve it.
    Deserve it by letting it happen.
    Like, me putting a Senor Funpickle outside my house, and it getting swiped.
    I'd have no one to blame, by myself, right?
    Because it's not thievery?
    Posted 9 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would like to toss out here the idea that setting out meat collectors and milkers so people can take from them is not really that helpful.  The best part of getting milk and meat is not the actual milk and meat, it's the xp you get when you nibble and milk.  If you want to prevent people from leveling up, then encouraging them to grab free resources is fine.

    You don't get xp from stealing, so the people who are doing it aren't doing themselves any favors, either - a milker or meat collector is a pretty cheap item.
    Posted 9 months ago by Jewel Stoned Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Pomegrandy I guess my post title could have been better, but I couldn't figure out how to word it. 

    There is a big difference between A. issuing a mild warning that stuff people could remove is likely to be removed and B. sneering and sniggering at the already-unhappy person whose attempt at sharing was thwarted by thievery.

    Perhaps you and I define stealing differently. I think that stealing is taking stuff that I am pretty sure somebody else paid for and did not want me to take away from them. I believe that Tiny Speck and you consider that if the person put his stuff where I could take it, even if that person did not want me to take it, even if that person left a note next to it saying "please don't take my collector", then it wouldn't be stealing if I picked it up anyway because the person left the item "in harm's way." 

    Maybe I should have worded my post title something like "Why not block trolls and bullies, some of whom may be thieves but all of whom deserve to be inconvenienced?" I would not have chosen to word it "Let's block people with whom we have any philosophical disagreement."

    @JewelStoned Interesting thoughts, I had not considered the xp aspect of it before. 
    Posted 9 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The current game mechanics are such that, sadly, certain things can be taken from our home streets. Not "stolen". Since we have an emotional attachment to customising our home streets, it might *feel* like thievery when someone grabs our stuff, but technically, it isn't. We know what's lockable and what's not. It's crappy that people pick up stuff that we have an emotional attachment to, but as one of the picker-uppers said to me, it's fair game. And she's right. I would go so far as to say that some of the takers don't view it as griefing--home streets are a resource to be harvested, just like a tree.

    Players have provided ample feedback on what they feel should be lockable or not. General consensus appears to be that we'd like the option to lock down our feeders and collectors at the very least, and probably little decorative elements as well.

    Given that we're in beta, chances are excellent that this problem will subside as we provide our feedback and the devs make adjustments (or not) as they see fit, based on our feedback.

    But for now, calling the picking up of stuff as "stealing" is an emotional reaction. The stuff is fair game. I would hope that my "defense" of this is not taken as a reflection of my intent.
    Posted 9 months ago by Voluptua Sneezelips Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm poor so I need lots of free stuff.
    Posted 9 months ago by ☣ elf ☣ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It seems like we need to write a letter to our local congressman/woman about how pissed we are.

    "Dear Rick Scott,

    People are taking my stuff outside my house.
    Like, on my street.
    I'm putting it out there, knowing it'll get taken right off my street.
    So, I decided to write this letter, and the other numerous letters you may have gotten' before.
    I am royally pissed, because they're within legal boundaries, these so called trash collectors.
    I want to spread my garbage for all my neighbors and me to enjoy.
    Because that's why I put stuff out.
    I want to visually please my neighbors Mr. Scott.
    They're taking all my butterfly cubimals, and killing my real butterflies!
    It's a good thing though, that I have gnomes that are angry and menacing.
    Good thing, they are too heavy to be stolen!
    Please Rick Scott, help me defeat these evil doers.
    I just want to please my neighbors, and myself.
    Help me Rick Scott, you're my only hope.

    -With love, Volkov."
    Posted 9 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think it would be awesome if when we do block it would also include not seeing forum posts from the said players...More of an idea..need to reword for the ideas forum me doth think!
    Posted 9 months ago by ~Arabesque~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • From Mr. Volare: "We can't station snipers on our streets after all."

    That's how I think some people feel when I give out keys. xD
    Posted 9 months ago by Rook Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Vocable wrote: " B. sneering and sniggering at the already-unhappy person whose attempt at sharing was thwarted by thievery."

    This is the thing that gets to me every time. It's like piling on. It's shouldn't be so difficult to exercise some compassion and say "there, there", rather than give them a capslock scolding complete with boldface. Or if you're not feeling compassionate at that moment (we've all been there, right?), perhaps consider saying nothing to that person as a way of not adding to their distress. Though you may legitimately feel that their distress is misplaced, that doesn't mean it isn't a real feeling.

    @Volkov: Reductio ad absurdum is frequently amusing, if not entirely useful at all times.
    Posted 9 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
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