Topic

Chef on strike!

I love cooking but I'm going to have to lay down my ladle and pick up my hoe. The pay just isn't worth it.
I cooked up a nice Meat Tetrazzini that gives 82 energy when eaten. 
The ingredients required to make this delicious dish are worth the following energy:
2 Plain Rice Noodles = 16 
(this needs to be cooked from 2 rice. Here 4 rice = 2 plain noodles, no pay for cooking)
3 Mushrooms = 9
2 Meat = 20
1 Cheese = 6
1 Tangy Sauce  (10 energy) needs the following ingredients:
1 Sweet and Sour Sauce (24 energy) and 1 Secret Sauce (23 energy) or:
Honey = 4
Ginger = 1
Lemon = 5
Tomato = 5
Egg = 5
Black Pepper = 1
Butterfly Milk = 6 (mood)

If my math is right that totals 78. That means that the energy value of the individual ingredients is only 4 less than the finished dish.(I'm using the wiki info for the values used above.) Cooking 10 Tetrazzini requires some time and energy plus lots of skills and cooking pots. It is also necessary to collect the ingredients, process the fruit, spices and butterfly milk, and grow the tomatoes and rice or to buy them. A stack of 10 yields 820 units of energy.

On the other hand I could grow 1,568 units of energy in my 16 patch garden if I plant cabbage. That's for just one harvest and I'm not at the top of my game as a gardener. 

So as much as this chef loves cooking and all the glamor that goes along with it, I'm on strike until I get a little respect! ;)

Posted 19 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Want to know something funny? Just moments ago, Myles (engineer) was talking about checking in all the changes that Mart (game designer) made yesterday to food values on our internal IRC channel. They will (shortly) be anywhere from 20 to 70% more valuable (and provide 20 to 70% more energy).

    So, it'll be better. 

    But, one change that has been on the back burner for a long time would make a much bigger difference: (i) lower level food (raw ingredients or anything which gives less than 5 energy) would do nothing for high level characters, regardless of quantity eaten; (ii) all characters would require "variety" and get bored of a dish for a game day after they eat it once, so a variety of high level food would be required to avoid death, getting pooped, etc. will be required to keep playing and all those non-cooks will be begging for cooks to come and feed them!

    We'll see ...
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • oh man... can't wait to hear striatic's thoughts on this one :D
    Cooking is a labor of love.... if the short order cook ate everything he made, well he's be a pretty rotund individual. Even so, there *is* still something off about cooked food. Why bother when a stack of eggs nets one of the best space/energy ratings.

    LOL hiyas stoot! Was writing my response as yours was posted... glad to hear the cooked foods are getting looked at :D Seems like a lot of areas are getting love this week!
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ stoot: Glad to know about the energy adjustment for cooked foods. I think it will encourage the non-cookers to cook more now that there is more incentive. Regarding the back-burner changes, I can appreciate (i), but (ii) gives me pause....maybe if we could buy a refrigerator to store a vast number of varieties of food.
    Posted 19 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow, the bored with food tweak is gonna have some major effects in day to day game play and strategy. Glad to hear there are corresponding adjustments to the food/energy ratios for cooking to go along with it. New fun, can't wait to try it ! 
    Posted 19 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know that we'll actually make that change: we might, and I like it, but there's probably some reason we've been sitting on the design for six+ months ...
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hey @stoot, the tweaks and adjustments are cool, but let's not get stuff too complex--puleaze?!? The complexity adds up and while I much enjoy managing energy and mood (for real), too many variables and this could be tedious. i.e., did I eat a groddle sammich, a lem-which or some cheezy ones?
    Posted 19 months ago by Mac Rapalicious Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks Stoot! Given all the awesome creativity at work in this game I was pretty sure you had something up your collective sleeves, but hey, a gals gotta do something while the game is down! ;) 
    Posted 19 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the idea of better returns for making the foods...as long as the resources needed to cook doesn't take 1/2 the day to find.
    Not too sure about the "get bored of a dish for a game day after they eat it once" part, tho. Especially since the main part of my game play is cooking and I tend to eat the things that I can acquire easier than the stuff I cook the most with. :P

    Will we eventually be able to make (ie: grow, brew, catch and freeze) everything that, atm. we have to go to the vendors for? (Please say yes - I really would love to grow mushrooms :D)
    Posted 19 months ago by sgjo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love the idea of needing variety. I was getting a bit nervous that I would be eating awesome stews for ever because it is the easiest thing to do. All for it. (Tracking might be crazy. And The limit on one type of food should never be less than your full energy. If you have 1000 energy,you daily limit on one food before you get diminishing returns should never be less than 1000. Basically, you SHOULD be able to go from 1 energy to full by eating on type of food and not have to worry about switching.)
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sounds like fun...as long as Glitch keeps track of what we've eaten.  My memory is not that good! I do like cooking as well and agree it would be nice to be able to grow mushrooms and parsnips.  I have not tried feeding a piggie those foods to see if it will produce seeds for them so maybe we can grow them now.  Can't wait for the game to open to try. 
    Posted 19 months ago by MisAdventure Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's terrific that cooking will finally be worthwhile.  I've been eating raw meat almost exclusively since I started playing, since there's been no benefit to cooking.  Neither of the other changes particularly appeal to me, though, probably because it's taken me so long to get enough skills and levels that I don't have to constantly worry about food.  Also, players who don't enjoy cooking or who don't have a lot of currants would have a hard time. 

    I do have a practical request, though: if you are going to force us to cook (and even if you aren't), please put a grocery vendor in Groddle Heights.  If memory serves, we have an inordinate number of alchemical goods vendors, but not one grocery store.  Hooch doesn't just grow on trees!  Er... well... scratch that... but, strangely enough, birch syrup doesn't.

    Sadly, feeding a pig parsnips did not produce parsnip seeds when last I checked, which was a few weeks ago.  Radishes were not working properly, and I think they were actually removed from the game.  There aren't any mushroom seeds, but I agree that there should be some way to grow them, especially for those of us who live in caves.
    Posted 19 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • IF we actually made that change, THEN we would definitely keep track of what you have already eaten and make it obvious. The intent wouldn't be simply to make it hard to find food, but rather to make food a more significant part of the game (and create an more meaningful choice of careers).
    Posted 19 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ooooh nice! This means I should stop being lazy, stop gobbling raw eggs *yikes* and pick up the laddle and the grill ! Can't wait to try the new changes. Now if only tiny specks takes a pit on us and opens the game so that we can feed our glitches * a very very big sigh*
    Posted 19 months ago by gia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been experimenting with cooking, and I really like the way it intersects with so many other skills. But like other people here, I've relied almost entirely on nibbling piggies to keep my energy up.

    Getting bored of food would be just the nudge I needed to stop being a pig nibbler and actually use my frying pan.
    Posted 19 months ago by Elnard McThwack Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hee, love cooking and making drinks, I always try to keep my meal bag and my mini fridge bag (don't ask) stocked. But I always have a lil thing about making vast quantities of sammiches and other easy to make, but semi low in energy foods then binging on them. So I won't say I'll like the changes. Far from it,  but then, maybe it's time to do some cooler recipes.......
    Posted 19 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It would be good if cooked food was worth more.  I cook, but sell it and live on meat!  My maths is rubbish so I have no incentive to work out different values (thank you for that Riverwalker!)

    Maybe there could be some indication in the recipe of the 'trade-off' value in ingredients, time, energy etc?
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • About the getting bored of a dish after eating it once in a game day. One problem I see there is that before I go out on a mission I cook up food and get rid of extras so I will have space to collect. If I have to use up a lot of space for only one food type per space I am losing a lot of space for the original mission I set out upon. Other than that I think the changes would be great.
    Posted 19 months ago by Gruff McGruff Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think having diminishing returns on eating the same meal would be better than only allowing once per day. Something like 10% less energy with each consumption within a game day?
    Posted 19 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have an idea, the energy would stay the same but eating same meals would come with a little mood drop. Kinda like, not sammiches again?
    Posted 19 months ago by KitkatCat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I already spend way too much time growing, harvesting, making food.  Now if I am going to have to spend even more time at that I am going to have very little time for anything else and am going to have far less space in my bags for other things.  Maybe you can add a housing project in Hell?
    Posted 19 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I had the same thought as KitkatCat, and maybe the mood penalty could gradually increase the more you persisted on eating the same old thing. But yeah, the pack space point is a very, very good one.
    Posted 19 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Regarding projects, I'd like to have a nice summer home on Dante Ave, with a grape arbor and some flame trees please.
    Posted 19 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you make that change, please please please make the max for any dish more than 1. It is so handy to go mining and bring a stack of 10 of one dish, 10 of another, etc.. If I had to bring that many different, individual meals, I'd have bags and bags full of food I'd have to carry around. It's also very efficient to just eat 5 of something at a time and get your energy back up in one go, rather than clicking on and eating 5 individual things. I can understand having some sort of limits to encourage people to eat and cook a variety, but make the limit something like 5 or even 10.
    Posted 19 months ago by FrankenPaula Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm glad to hear we'll get more energy from eating cooked meals. I like cooking but I really like that I can carry more energy from cooked meals. 50 meat in one stack is 500 energy in one space in a bag. 10 awesome stews in one stack is 1100 energy in one space. If the energy return is even more, that would be great!
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 KitkatCat: I think a mood drop for eating too much of the same thing makes more logical sense then not being allowed to eat more of it, and is less draconian. We should have choices in what we want to do, including accepting the negative consequences of our actions if we want to.

    I'm SOOO happy the cooked food energy values will be increased! I really love cooking, but was worried that I was wasting my time doing it, and was wondering if I should stop.
    Posted 19 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for kitkat.

    Also I wonder how we will keep track of the # of items we ate in the same day. Because right now the energy gained is equivalent to the currants. So if instead of mood there is decrease in energy; there should be a way of keeping track of the reduced energy.

    What about the inventory space? If I am going to do lots of high energy activities, I have to carry different kinds of foods; and if the mood drop solution is taken then mood buff drinks too. Maybe a  food bag whose inventory space scales with the level of players, since higher levels need more kinds of foods?
    Posted 19 months ago by gia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think that being penalized for eating the same food over and over is a good idea.   You guys trying to force us into a healthy lifestyle? 

    On the other hand, if there were a junk food tool (deep fat fryer?), maybe you could loose mood for eating too many Cheetos and french fries and deep-fried Twinkies. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I hadn't really given a lot of thought to the storage issue but you're right: my cabbages would take 2 full slots and 25% of a third for 1560 energy. That's significant considering I'm always short on space. One thing that really works well for those who love to cook is bar tending. The buffs from the cocktails are awesome. One of my biggest cooking thrills was when I finally got the recipe for Hot 'n' Fizzy sauce so I could make Flaming Humbabas! Perhaps the tweak on the food could include various culinary buffs that slow down energy use, give super speed, double harvests, or are useful for certain tasks similar staying warm while going in for snow cones.

    I also want to say YES PLEASE to the idea of growing mushrooms, having the ability to make hooch/beer/wine and raise bees. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @WindBorn Funny! I actually wondered if the imbalance of raw food over cooked was a lifestyle statement! lol
    Posted 19 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • An addition of energy outcome from a dish, could perhaps be fairly calculated as a function where cooking ads value of a fixed % and each step raise it one time. So a meal that is cooked through 5 steppes with a 5% energy-gain per step (picking fruit, converting, using the pan, using the grill) would 1,05^5  with low cooking skills, giving a low % gain, while high skills giving a higher % gain. (And including other important factors. Sure thing)
    Posted 19 months ago by monty the moon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That makes a lot of sense Monty!
    Posted 19 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great idea Monty.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 FrankenPaula, I agree. I prefer to make and carry dishes by the quantity that will stack, when I can.  I am glad to hear that cooking will be getting more of a payoff... looking forward to this update!
    Posted 19 months ago by Lelu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @FrankenPaula: just stock up on Earthshaker drinks. Gives you the "impervious miner" buff, meaning mining doesn't cost energy. Same goes with Flaming Humbabas - you can crush ore w/o costing energy. 

    I like the idea of boredom with food. Can we also experiment with new dishes...like some sort of Executive Chef skill?
    Posted 19 months ago by blogkitten Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would LOVE the idea of an advanced cooking skill that allowed to create recipes. Obviously there would be limits. Graphics themselves would be an issue. But perhaps certain types of foods that could share icons: soups, sandwiches, cakes. And the ability to add buffs of different strengths. (Completely realize this would be complicated to implement and display... but as a far future feature... would be awesome.)
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i like kitkat's idea [not sammiches again] and not stoot's idea [if you're level 30 you're too good for spinach]

    also, simply increasing the energy values boring and doesn't do much to make cooking "special". consuming and creating food is a sensuous experience. it should confer a variety of different status effects [some providing energy in less straightforward ways, see apples] coupled with great animations and sounds. i think an across the board energy output increase doesn't sufficiently differentiate cooking as a skill set.

    different foods could produce energy bursts over time, grant XP in lieu of energy, temporarily improve harvesting speed or unlock special verbs useable only after having noshed on a certain people.

    "fullness" would be another good factor. the tastier and better prepared the food, the more room you have left for more.

    cooking and eating is also a social experience. and consuming food in a social setting as a "meal" could have communally beneficial effects.

    eating a well cooked meal isn't so much about energy as about taste and mood and appetite and sharing a meal with friends.

    the current food/cooking system doesn't much articulate this, nor would a basic percentage energy boost.

    i want to be swept up in smells and sizzles and yumms and statuses and friendly meals and not in maths.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic, you just made me hungry.
    Posted 19 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • striatic, you make me want to go cook something! :)
    Posted 19 months ago by Pirate Apples Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Striatic, I like your expansion on the ways to solve the chef's disenchantment. The energy deficit is a real problem but as you say so much more could be added that would make the cooking skills more fun and rewarding and perhaps more social as well. I can see potlucks in the halls, for instance, tied into repeatable quests, or more intimate dinner parties in our homes. +1 for more sounds and animation during cooking.
    Posted 19 months ago by Riverwalker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stri, I was kinda just trying to give a starting point, on how cooking could be improved - addition of other things like energy boost, garlic breath, slow movement from being stuffed etc would be most welcome and in the spirit of the giants*. It should never be about only the math and energy.
    But - you must admit that atm. beautiful clean math, is the defining factor for you, when you decide how to stock up on basic items with a good net. energy like cabbage / earthshakers / powder, to go mining. Right? 

    * edit - from gods to giants
    Posted 19 months ago by monty the moon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • only after having noshed on a certain people.


    Ooh... is cannibalism going to be a skill?
    :D
    Posted 19 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "But - you must admit that atm. beautiful clean math, is the defining factor for you, when you decide how to stock up on basic items with a good net. energy like cabbage / earthshakers / powder, to go mining. Right?"

    sure, but i think cooked foods should carry forward the energy yields of their component ingredients, plus a small bump .. then add the status effects on top of that.

    add the fullness effects and food variety boredom [not sammiches again] and the net energy gain isn't necessary.

    basic animal kinship and gardening harvesting could be where the energy net occurs, with cooking improving stack sizes, conferring status effects, eliminating food boredom effects and so on.
    Posted 19 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Awesome stew went from 144 to 200. Awesome! 2000 energy in one stack :)
    Posted 19 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like ideas to promote variety - in other games it seems there end up being only a few worth it items to craft and the others, while they may be fun, get left by the wayside. 

    At the same time, complicated gets really complicated! I don't necessarily want to have to keep track of a bunch of different things to eat if I decide to go off and mine - so maybe we wouldn't get 'tired' of something till after at least a stack or two? 

    Striatic has some great ideas about how to increase the value of cooking in general. I agree and also I've long thought that food made by players should have some more 'ooomph' than food bought at vendors or dropped by trees and the like. 
    Posted 19 months ago by Wren Bramble Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What does this mean? How do you get so much energy from cabbage?

    "On the other hand I could grow 1,568 units of energy in my 16 patch garden if I plant cabbage. That's for just one harvest and I'm not at the top of my game as a gardener."
    Posted 17 months ago by Widdershins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Widdershins, bear in mind that this whole thread is 70-some days and many tests old.  Various game parameters have changed and probably changed again since then.
    Posted 17 months ago by Hawkwell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you get 14 cabbages per harvest, you get  14 harvests*16 plots*7energy = 1568 energy for one round of growing/harvesting. This hasn't changed, but the length of time to get that energy has increased by a lot.

    Hawkwell is right though, about taking into account the age of the thread.  When I linked to this thread, I mentioned that it is a piece of the history of food in Glitch :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow! 14 cabbages per plot!  I've really got to get that emblem of Spriggan!
    Posted 17 months ago by Hawkwell Subscriber! | Permalink