Topic

Herbs and griefers

I had a problem with another user a couple of days ago and he found a way to get his revenge on me tonight. He stood over me in a community herb garden so that he could pick any herbs before I did - I don't know whether he's just faster, or whether lag has something to do with it.

Anyway, it's not the herbs, or the wasted time, or this sad individual's solitary life. The problem is  the current herb system. Any number of players can pick cherries, and the worst anyone can do with mining is to help you. But herbs take a significant investment of time and resources, and because they're free-for-all it gives griefers a way to harass other users.

I don't plan on lodging a complaint about that user, but something really should be done to fix the system

Posted 12 months ago by Tanga Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I agree with OP's sentiment, and I'd even venture to say that the user causing the OP grief likely agrees were that user on the other side of the transaction. I've also had a glitch harvest right in front of me.

    The question is what can be done to the system. Maybe each glitch is limited to a certain number of plots per game day, and once the glitch has planted in a plot, s/he has a limited number of time and chances during which each s/he can leave the plot and return to water, fertilize, and harvest. At the same time, while the plot is "protected," another glitch cannot perform such tasks. A plot becomes unprotected once the glitch has exceed the total absence time or number of absence chances, and becomes available to be protected by the next person to perform one of the tasks. There will likely be a time gap during which some herbs are not protected for anyone, because it has been recently unprotected, and no tasks can be performed on it yet by any glitch.

    If the system remains as it is, everyone knows that it will become a race to the bottom, degenerating to circumstances where only the naive, generous or optimist will be planting, and everyone else will hover like vultures to vie for the rare community herb garden harvest.
    Posted 12 months ago by Chinny the Unlikely Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, it is me he is speaking about.

    A few days ago I harvested three plots. he claimed the whole field for himself which i don't have to respect. I planted hundreds of herbs in the community gardens and never harvested them. But this time I was on a quest. While he did not stop harassing me, I harvested some more.
    Most of the time I respect people standing there and waiting. But sometimes I have an interest too. I always re-plant, so I am not a thief.He immediately started calling me jerk, creep and other names. Messaged me with threats and wrote a ton of notes about me being e thief and put them all over the garden and the streets around where I live on.Next day he started stalking me.

    Today I saw him in the herb gardens ans yes, I harvested 3 plots, planted new ones, put guano on them and left. That's all I did and there is nothing wrong in that.
    Posted 12 months ago by Hackepeter Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am still expecting an excuse for that behavior.
    Posted 12 months ago by Hackepeter Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think they should change the community herb gardens so that the original planter has 30 minutes to pick it up before anyone else can, once its fully grown.
    Posted 12 months ago by Sludge Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hackepeter, I'm not trying to start a fight here.  You have one side, and Tanga has another.

    What I'm not understanding is the mentality though that if you are on a quest, then you should be able to harvest the stuff that other people are waiting for.  What if they are on the same quest?  Why do your objectives supersede theirs?  They now have to wait around for twice as long if you re-plant, while you were able to just waltz in and take what you want.  The take-a-plant, leave-a-plant works well in crop gardens where there is no major competition right now, but at the moment I think herb gardens are too contentious for that to work.

    At the same time, claiming an entire herb garden for oneself and stalking/harassing isn't appropriate either.  A friendly note in the garden at each end asking people not to take attended herbs might be good.  But it also might help if the "herb campers" left a section open for the take-a-plant, leave-a-plant style.  Since so many of the "thieves" are quoting that style of play as their reason for taking herbs, setting aside space for both might get rid of some of the tension.

    I expect the atmosphere to mellow out a bit over time as the skill's novelty wear off, and as we get customizable houses.  But until then, unless TS puts in new community herb gardens we'll be left to share the ones we have.  I'm not sure that TS is going to take time from developing more important things to address herb griefing with gameplay changes, given their attitude towards the tree wars.  It's annoying and major harassment warrants administrative action on a Glitchen by Glitchen basis, but overall it's just part of how the players are developing the face of Ur.
    Posted 12 months ago by Space Core Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm sorry that you both had unpleasant experiences, but the forums are not the place for this discussion.  Please take your complaints about in-game behavior to TS.
    Posted 12 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup Subscriber! | Permalink
  • But it also might help if the "herb campers" left a section open for the take-a-plant, leave-a-plant style.

    This part should be pinned and posted all over the place. This is the first time i see anyone taking into consideration if there is any space left for actual community gardening in community gardens.
    Posted 12 months ago by Ingvar Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Space Core, three out of the biggest field leaves enough for him at any quest. ;-)That does not make my interest more important. But why is it always less? Community means that not only you have the profit, even if you harvested all. As long as TS does not make any changes, everybody can harvest there. Who planted it, does not count. It's a nice-to-have and come on, most of the time you harvest what you planted. Who is the real greedy one?And I counted a few seconds before harvesting, he was tincturing. It was not the nicest thing and frustrating for him. Sure. I did not plan to take more than three. But I was within the rules and his response was not. I took the matter to TS, but it did not stop him from harassing me. And now this post? Really, wtf?The essences I made of "his" rubeweed I gave away to low level players and friends and I was hoping to be done with this unpleasant matter.
    Posted 12 months ago by Hackepeter Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I replant if I can.  If I can't, I ask if I can have something.  I never take anything from a patch someone is standing by and I do try to remember to ask if anyone is tending a plot.  I, like many others, am also doing the Herb Quests and have seldom found an empty patch to grow an herb in.  That leaves few options.  I often just leave.  If I have guano, I will use it or pass it to someone who is waiting.  I'd like to finish the Herb Quests.  I have Friends with Bog houses though, and have been invited to plant in them so I will finish the quests soon enough.

    It is a shame that there are:
    1. No more CGs for Herbs than the few we have
    2. No ability to grow Herbs in every location
    3. So many disagreements about how to get the herbs needed for the Quests
    4. Such insane prices in the Auctions

    I am hoping that the ability to build onto a house or to build a house from scratch will also include the ability to dig a celler where we can add:  dark patches, fireflies, herb patches, etc.  Or, if it is a Bog house, the ability to somehow grow vegetables and trees.  Until things change somehow, please be kind.
    Posted 12 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A friend of mine said about Glitch: "violence is the lacuna of that design" and I think he's right.  No matter what else happens, no matter how Glitch is changed, characters are going to get into conflict.  Right now, it's herb theft, but there's also Rook attack foiling.  It's tempting to say "that's griefing" and deal with it like that.  

    But ultimately it's tough for an ongoing game to be interesting without conflict - I know people have drifted away because there's no "story," and I think the lack of conflict is part of where that comes from.

    And I think TS realizes this.  There's a reason there are 11 giants, and there's a reason there are rookish clothes, and that the mechanics of stun attacks and herb harvesting admit to unpleasant behavior.  Because conflict is interesting.

    But at the moment, there's no way to resolve conflict.  You can shout at people you don't like, you can block them, and you can report them.  Shouting is futile.  Blocking is only good if they're saying bad things.  And reporting should be about the bad behavior of players not characters.  Or you can shun them - you can offer free stuff but exclude them, for instance.

    I'm not advocating violence as a solution to the problem.  I've suggested Banishment (as the converse to Summon) and maybe that's not the best idea.  But some sort of in-game conflict resolution really ought to show up at some point.
    Posted 12 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Since you called yourself out I'll respond. You admit that you take herbs from people because you don't like them, as you did to me last night. That's griefing. It's not only a breach of the TOS, it's a really petty and vindictive thing to do. You've been doing this for days. I'm frankly surprised you haven't been kicked off the system.
    Posted 12 months ago by Tanga Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Yarrow
    Posted 12 months ago by Crag Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That is a 100% lie.
    Posted 12 months ago by Hackepeter Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow... this is making me a very sad glitch reading this. :(
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I say leave the system the way it is, it kinda says something when people have an issue playing nice over a plot of herbs in a game.

    Rev.
    Posted 12 months ago by Revrent Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The problem is, we can't pretend everybody is 100% harmonious and nice and stuff when there are game elements that cause people to do interesting things.  How can everything be wonderful when THAT stuff is happening?!?

    I hope we aren't headed toward there being 'community based marshalls' along the glitch parade route trained in 'conflict resolution.'  Puh-

    -lease.
    Posted 12 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • How about getting a friend to help you harvest? 

    You harvest and the friend splanks the wannabee harvester into oblivion.
    Posted 12 months ago by Tsu Dho Nimh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I hear you have some problems with herbs.  I'm gonna make you an offer, see?  You pay me the money, and me and my friend planky here make your problems...disappear.  Capice?"

    (Sorry all I'm getting from Tsu Dho Dimh is a underground herb mafia that you pay protection money to in order to keep your herbs safe.  :D)

    (...Great now that I've said it, someone is going to do it.)
    Posted 12 months ago by Space Core Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I take ur herbz lols
    Posted 12 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here a tale (with unhappy ending)
    Once upon a time, there were released on Glitch the ancestral lands (with all the overwhelming nostalgia) where you could find some seeds while walking there in all solitude. These seeds could be planted in the community herbs gardens in the "dark area" to share the seeds of your nostalgia with all community and the flowers that grew up, could be pick by everyone like an act of sharing with the other your inner nostalgia. Usually the seeds were often re planted and the cycle went on by itself and was really respectful and deep in some sense, seen the other players taking care of your seeds till they become flowers, was a kind of relief.
    As often happens, one day all this poetry and deep meaning was taken over by the flowers business and the "collar grey men" ( yes grey) started to sell 1 flower for 1500 currants each and all the flowers business began.
    Obviously all poetry and shared feeling with the people were gone forever and were replaced by the cold hunt of a grief.
    The end
    Posted 12 months ago by babi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Further reading:

    Mackay, Charles  Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (London, 1841)

    Galbraith, John Kenneth  A Short History of Financial Euphoria (New York / London, 1990)
    Posted 12 months ago by dr_loplop Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You know, none of these woes are unique to herb gardens.  We bog-dwellers have ease of herb production (which was nearly worthless for a long time), but have to hover in Community Gardens to plant and harvest *50* tomatoes and onions, etc.  It takes forever, is prone to (even accidental) theft/griefing, and so on.  And yet somehow we've managed to soldier on without thread after thread of moaning and wishing the world were different.

    It would be nice if community plots worked more smoothly (having more would help).
    It would be nice if houses could be made to have some of each kind of garden plot.
    Maybe these things will happen, or maybe it's an incentive to play off hours or make friends...
    Posted 12 months ago by confowsled Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bog house owners have always had access to crops for very reasonable prices either at a produce vendor or on auction.  Crop house owners have no way to get herbs other than in community gardens or the price-gouging fest at the auctions.

    Tiny Speck should have seen this coming. It boggles the mind that they didn't anticipate the conflicts at the community herb gardens.
    Posted 12 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @confowsled whilst I am not bothering to try and use community herb gardens myself right now I'd just like to point out that this is really not comparable to bog dwellers needing to use crop gardens.

    Produce (and their seeds) can be purchased from vendors so a bog dweller only 'needs' to use crop gardens if they want to gain quests / achievements. Non bog dwellers need to use herb gardens if they want herbs for any reason at all - personally it would be simply because I'd like to try out the effects of all the tinctures and potions. So far, as I dont want to experience the crop garden madness and don't have the game time to amass stacks of currants to buy herbs I have not tried a single one.
    Posted 12 months ago by geekybird Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @lucille As per Aviatrix's thread I think there's a possibility TS did anticipate this conflict...
    Posted 12 months ago by geekybird Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I read Aviatrix's thread.  I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories other than as a source of amusing reading. One can never disprove them by their very nature, and they usually fail Occam's Razor.
    Posted 12 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The solution is simple.
    Introduce herb vendors.
    Posted 12 months ago by Liz Erd Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Lucille, I don't think you need a conspiracy theory - I think Tiny Speck knew exactly what they were doing.  Or else they're idiots, and I'm certain they aren't idiots.
    Posted 12 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Unfortunately I agree that TS knew exactly what they were doing with the herbs. They have done nothing to alleviate the problem, which just confirms that imho. A while back there was a coding mistake and herbs could be planted in normal crop gardens for a short while. An easy fix I would have thought until the new housing system is implemented next year.

    If the bickering and nastiness continues I'm not sure I will still be around to know. This isn't the Glitch I love or want play.
    Posted 12 months ago by Teena Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am with you Teena. If the bickering, nastiness, rudeness and greed continues I am not sure how long I will be around either. I fell in love with this game when I first start playing but it is slowly getting to be a very unhappy game.

    I am the type of player that enjoys learning new stuff, doing quests, getting achievements, and just running into another glitch now and then and having a laugh or conversation. I like to do random things like give things away or drop something along the way.

    The price of herbs are stopping me from finishing quests and I sure won't stand around a community garden and plant seeds I bought to have it all stolen out from under me and still not getting my quests done.

    All of this crap is making me a very sad glitch. :(
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I had a problem with someone in the community garden at Chalkra Phool last night.

    I bought rubeweed seeds and guano and planted 3 plants and double guanoed them. that is what I always do with all my plants, double guano them so it speeds up their time and I don't have to wait as long.

    this person logs in next to where I am waiting and says nothing. she then steals my herbs when tthey were ready.  I then said to her to give them back those are mine! she first said I was afk too bad, then she lied and said she fertilized them so they were hers and that she was waiting over 15 minutes for them, also a lie. she just logged in there a minute or two before they were ready to harvest!

    the nerve of someone to log in next to my herbs, claim I was afk,  then claim she guanoed them (which she couldnt do since they were already guanoed twice each) and then take them and basically tell me off!

    she eventually gave me 3 seeds and 3 guano. meanwhile I used 6 not 3 guano, and now I had to wait all over again for same plants to grow?? ridiculous, rude, selfish! I can't believe the mentality of some people in this game.

    it's not like you can cash out your currents for real cash. still some people are just greedy. unreal. btw I reported that person, they shouldn't do that.
    Posted 12 months ago by Karmagirl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have two real community garden plots, one in the downtown core of Vancouver and one in suburban Richmond.  Let me tell you people, all this shit goes down in real life.  Theft is constant all the time. I talk about it every time I am at the garden with what ever random gardener I am speaking with. 

    Bitching and complaining about others gardeners?  Hell ya!  Nasty emails about non-participation? Yup. There are battles about everything. It took us six months to decide what berries to grow in a berm, blueberries or huckleberries?  What about the pot smokers in plot 24 that never show up for work parties,  crazy lady in 96 that just shows up for meetings to contradict whatever everyone else wants, people that steal tools, people who work on their own plots during work parties, I could go on and on.  What about that damn lady that likes buttercups and morning glories!!!

    But I have also met the most unique and kindest people. Maybe even people I would have not met otherwise.  People who have watered my plants with out my asking, people who have given me seeds and plants, people I have chatted for hours about nothing.  A little theft and drama happens but I wouldn't give it up.

    Welcome to community gardening. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Meia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Karmagirl:

    See this thread where you can get your very own bog house and grow herbs hassle-free
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The new signs in the community gardens make it clear now. People have no right to complain.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kalashnikov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Riiiiight.  Those signs are all about clarity.  "Well, I need alla dis!"
    Posted 12 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol, TS is asking for failure.
    Posted 12 months ago by Woochi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The signs, it seems, just give the herb ninjas authority to keep doing what they're doing.  It comes down to who happens to be there when the herbs flower, and who can click faster.  It's just downright rude to pluck the herbs out from under someone's nose, and unfortunately all we have is people's word about whether they planted or fertilised those herbs.  

    Anonymity brings out the true colours in people and evidently, as elaborated on above, there are plenty on either end of the spectrum.

    It makes me sad to think that something like a timer (personal +1 there) may be necessary to thwart herb ninjas, but on the other hand it seems we can't rely on mature, civil behaviour to maintain a happy experience for everyone.  As Meia stated, this is a reflection of what happens in real life.

    Added: Just had my herbs plucked in said ninja fashion from right under my nose.  Not a nice feeling.  And while it may be possible that the community gardens are allowed to operate in this way to illustrate how societies "develop" in such environments, we're not being allowed to take action against these griefers so it's not entirely accurate.
    Posted 12 months ago by Inéo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Rather sad that the game makers are pretty much outright giving the ninja's and griefers permission to be their nasty selves. Very sad day in Ur. :(
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not as if herb growing is the only possible activity in Glitch.  If the dynamic distresses you, move on to nicer things or buy a bog house.  Speaking from that position.
    Posted 12 months ago by Yarrow Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm no good at math, but it looks like there's over 9000 bog houses for sale. http://www.glitch.com/realty/in-Shimla%20Mirch/

    Communism may work in theory, but private property works in practice.
    Posted 12 months ago by Black Francis Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh I don't go to the community gardens.. in fact I stay far away except the few times I went there to give out food and drink to help relieve the unhappiness. Just it is a sad day to see this is all. To be honest I would not like to see the time involved in growing all that to come to nothing due to rude behavior.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Black. Not everyone wants to live in a bog house. I am one that would never think of it because they are not to my taste. Not willing to give up my 50k house for a few herbs lol.
    Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Your answer to this is the new signs in the gardens.  Enjoy ;)
    Posted 12 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The solution is rather simple.  All this boils down to is simple common courtesy.  The game is trying to emulate a community, but there are no measures in place to assure honesty or fair play.  The addition of the new signs, "all can plant, all can harvest,"  is laughable.  I have a six plot home and spend all my time with the more expensive stuff.  When I go to the gardens...useless purple.  And if I decide to be generous or show charity, there is always someone there to ruin it for everyone.  There should be something greater than simply blocking someone.  There are really no benefits to the game.  You can "choose" to specialize in something, but everyone can do exactly what everyone else can. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Mr. Miskatonic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The signs say "all can plant, all can harvest" not "all can plant herbs that certain players find valuable and behave in ways certain players think are appropriate."

    If you want a 100% controlled environment, you have to stay in a 100% controlled environment. Otherwise you're going to be interacting with an controllable cross section of Urmanity. Yes it is frustrating when people are mean, and yes, they should mend their ways, but putting the power of "punishing" people in the hands of players would be so so so problematic.
    Posted 12 months ago by Pomegrandy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Magic Rock has not yet assigned me the "Rip someone else's hard work out of the cold, dead ground" quest.
    Posted 12 months ago by N2ZOrtolanaBlue Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are free bog homes available for those who would prefer to have more control over what happens to the seeds they plant.

    There are plenty of partnership opportunities as well.

    There is no need to use the community herb gardens unless you prefer hanging out there.
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We need 50k herb houses to solve this issue.
    or 100k herb houses.
    Or...just..bigger herb houses=(
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikeyn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Or just spend 100k on herbs!
    :)
    Posted 12 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think the signs are empowering the griefers so much as they're warning you to be realistic about the situation.

    People who want to take other player's herbs (with or without replanting, because I don't want to get into the issue of whether it's okay if you take and replant) are going to do it regardless of signs. They've been doing it! The signs are there to warn you that if you plant in the community garden anyone is free to take it.
    Posted 12 months ago by Demyx Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We need herbalism III to give us a higher yield and drive up the supply of herbs.
    Posted 12 months ago by Treesa Subscriber! | Permalink