Topic

The Past as Prologue: how the restoration of Ur's mythology might reshape player culture with respect to game change.

The recent china-shattering tempest in a teapot over The Subway Question is part of a general player ethos (at least in the forums, and to some extent on Global) which I think has a simple solution. It doesn’t require any additional coding, and would reconnect with the original game concept as it was framed in game narrations. 

 The solution is restoring Giant-based polytheism as an in-game feature through narrative, and reminding players of the underlying metaphysics of Ur. Because the role of the giants is currently vanishingly small (they’re really nothing but mechanisms to increase xp/energy/mood and to speed skill learning) in actual gameplay, I think players forgot a really crucial thing about the metaphysics of Ur: it is completely predicated on the idea of a world shaped by the Giants’ caprice. More on that comes later in this post. I should also mention that I *have* seen this done by staff, but only one: Lord Bacon-O frequently refers to the caprices of the Giants in Live Help to make bugs (or not-bugs) continuous with the game. "Why have I been dropped of in X location instead of where I was when I died on returning from Hell?" I asked once. "Sometimes the Giants forget where you started," says Bacon-O. And you know what? BEST ANSWER POSSIBLE. More of them maybe should be like that.    

Anyway: players expect Ur to be stable; some seem to cleave desperately to this stability in a way that is so intensely felt that it leads to a lot of stormy discussions when change is proposed. I’m not a game psychologist, and Glitch is actually only my second MMO (I played LOTRO) so I don’t have a lot of exposure to the social mechanics of this stuff, but it seems like the real world is the wire mother and Glitch is the terrycloth mother in Harry Harlow’s old primate experiments. A good number of the loyal player base want the security of a world that doesn’t shift under their feet. Other players repeat the mantra that change is good and change is great, and to trust in TS; unfortunately, this ends up becoming a kind of internescine battle – the dutiful children who have filial piety out the whim-wham (to the point that sometimes they come across as residents of a digital Jonestown) and the rebellious children who want it their way, or goddamnit, they’re going to pitch an epic tantrum. The sense of entitlement is a little astonishing, but players direct their pleas to devs and stoot and often expect a majority rule outcome.   

The reason for this is because of the abandonment of the giants and the mythic underpinning of Glitch in gameplay, and in game narrative. Instead of feeling like the Giants are responsible for changes (whether deliberate or mercurial), players have become monotheistic:  Stoot is the god of Ur. Stoot and the devs are the ones responsible for change, and players try to propitiate or control outcomes by either crying and yelling at these individuals  or slathering on a thick layer of smarmalade, as servile and worshipful as Mr. Collins in Pride and Prejudice. There’s not much middle ground, and I imagine that both extremes are pretty annoying. I’m honestly not sure which one I’d find more vexing if I was working in TS. One accepts the smarmalade-slathered toast at one’s peril; I don’t think I need to explain why.  On the other hand, nobody really likes it when people stomp around yelling. Or when they invite people over for dinner and instead of saying “This is delicious!” and talking pleasantly about things people do at dinner party and enjoying what’s in front of them, someone bangs on and on about how the chicken could have been better, how THEY would make the pilaf, WHY isn’t there any leafy green on the plate, etc.  Sure, as a game in development, player ideas and feedback should have value, but when there aren’t some parameters on that, the inmates pretty quickly decide that they can take over the asylum. At that point, damage control becomes a time sink. A cultural change becomes the only fix.  

“For a really long time eleven giants walked around… “ – the trailer makes it sound really super cute, right? They walked around and imagined things until they became real. It looks adorable. But damn, the Giants are scary-ass Lovecraftian nightmares in the face, right? And parts of Ur are creepycute. And there’s something darker in the backstory, which emerges when you get to the Rook Museum: 

 “Back in the early ages of Ur, when small islands formed spontaneously from the primordial chaos, only to be rendered unrecognizable moments later by the constant ebb and flow of imagination, the ancient Glitchian tribes suffered under constant threats to their very survival. There was the instability of the environment, the paucity of piggies—not to mention going to sleep every night without knowing what shapes or substances their meager huts might be when they awoke…” 

OK, so *that* was the essential condition of life as a Glitch. Things have settled down some. Houses don’t change overnight. People don’t log in to discover all their glitches have become frog people because Grendaline kicked Tii’s ass at a game of tiddlywinks last night and THIS is what he did out of pique. 

 But it could be, and that should be part of the game culture. The world of Ur, existing in the mind of these Giants who used to change EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME, is apt to be subject to the occasional dang change. Big ones and little ones. Because that’s just how the world *works* in the metaphysics of Ur. Maybe the Giants aren’t quite as frothy as they used to be, but if changes to gameplay at every level (from nerfing to geographical additions) were woven into the world-myth and given some narrative motivation/justification, using the mythology of the world that everyone is theoretically sharing – I think those changes would go down a lot easier. 

The polytheism and chaos of a giant-created world needs to be reasserted at the narrative level in order to relieve Stoot of being the Glitchian God, and the subject of all restive importuning.  “Tell it to Friendly.” You know how much Friendly would care about people screeking on about the subway? Hmmm, let’s see… So that’s just wrapping. That’s candycoating. It would be helpful. It would restore the metaphysics of Ur to being part of the actual game. 

If TS wanted to implement a system of player-controlled worlding on a *coding* level (coz I know you need more dev ideas, amirite?), instead of using the forums to complain, perhaps the Giants and daily/weekly/monthly tithing could be jiggered as a counting system – but ONLY for changes that are negotiable. Some of these things are obviously not going to be negotiable at all. Alph has goddamn spoken. Or whatever. 

 So if it’s possible to see how much gets tithed to a given Giant (and I think that even already exists), tithing could be used as a “voting” system to indicate support or discontent. Example: “Tii has taken away Helga’s cocktail shaker and that of all mining vendors. Make your own damn cocktails. If you don’t like it, maybe Cosma will make them a new one.”  Tithing to try to get the Giants to take various actions (for or against a change) could take the place of just, I dunno, frequent and epic forum-based shitstorms. 

 People might become devoted to the apparent long-term interests and strategies and hobbyhorses of a particular Giant. The Giants already have skill allegiances, this wouldn’t be hard to map out as far as attributing change to a particular Giant’s agency or interests. Maybe one Giant randomizes every damn tree in Ix because they are teasing the Giant who loves Spice. Players can fix that one by one, or propitiate the Giants. Etc. 

Or hey, they could call a Rook (requires making Rook rolls effective at calling real Rooks): 

“—but by far the most dangerous and terrifying of these was the Rook. The Rook, enemy of imagination, visited its wrath upon whatever the Giants’ minds created. It was the very manifestation of fear, doubt and uncertainty and it pecked and clawed relentlessly at the periphery of the Giants’ domain, black winter to the Giants’ spring of creativity. It was, if I can say so myself, most awful.” 

See, in this scenario, the anti-change forum banshees are pretty much Rookolytes. Whatever the Giants mind creates, they want to undo. Maybe a Rook could roll back the most recent change if it attacked and there weren’t enough people to fight it off. This would be good for whimsy changes, not major non-negotiable/necessary game changes. Such as, hm, trees getting replaced on a certain street. Or whatever.  

“Generations struggled to find a way to fight back against the Rook and end their destruction of creativity. No progress was made until the extraordinarily Pious Esquibeth of Inari discovered that her will alone could turn a normal shrine to a weapon, harnessing the direct conduit to the minds of the Giants to return fire instead of favor.” 

There were some folks who were RPing at rook worship some months ago. I thought that was neat. I thought the idea of the Giants and the tendency of Ur to metamorphose was neat. Before the game even launched, some people thought that was exactly the core of the game, even: 

 “For the game itself, it’s set inside the minds of eleven giants.  Your actions and the actions of others will affect and shape the world around you: which does seem to be something that we hear a lot.  Perhaps this revolves around which giant you side with and which one gets to a set goal of points first will change the landscape, but this is based on speculation as I haven’t had a chance to try out the game yet… I’m on a waiting list.” (http://greatgamingcrusade.com/2011/09/28/glitchs-trailer-confuses-many/)    

“And that’s what this game is. You’re inside their thoughts. Go and make them bigger, and we’ll play for a  long while.” 

 RESTORE THE GIANTS! 

 Stoot is awesome, but this was never intended to be a world in which he was perceived as God. It’s not so much fair to him or the devs, or really the players – they’re reacting in the way in which they’ve been conditioned to act through the usual operant conditioning cycles. Make them play it out in the game instead of screaming it out in the forums. 

Posted 8 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • This is great (and not just because I am quoted).
    Posted 8 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sounds wonderful, and I really appreciate that you posted this.  

    But I don't really think it will work.  The players won't forget that the Giants are fictional -- no amount of attributing changes to the Giants would actually make anyone suspend the knowledge that the Giants themselves are creations of Tiny Speck.  Non-negotiable changes would, at this point, include things such as imagination, custom housing, the end of persistent gravestone markers, and the inevitable replacement or evolution of subways -- exactly the topics of forum rage over the last three or so months.  No one is going to rage on Alph for these changes, even if they are attributed to Alph -- in fact, that might actually cause a few to increase their rage, feeling patronized or as if they are being fed a bunch of happy bullshit, rather than given meaningful information that explains the change.  

    And I also feel that it would supplant a system already in place, the ballot system, one of the few major incentives for subscribing.  The types of changes that would be negotiable are exactly like the animals we voted on -- anything more significant than such a cosmetic choice would likely make design planning impossible.

    If I'm wrong about design planning being impossible, I still don't see making major mechanics up for a vote as being practical.  I struggle picturing how making more significant design decisions subject to community majority approval would fly with investors.  I imagine it would lead to stoot eventually saying something like: "well, we had these great design ideas that would increase the draw of the game and increase retention, but 51% of our jaded core vets voted against it, leading to 30% of the total population quitting, and new account activation has not increased in months."  For one, right now, everyone playing this game is an outlier -- we're generally ones with a lot of in-game social connections and high tolerance for repetitive activities with little rewards.  Allowing us to direct design right now could actually doom the game -- the game population has definitely reduced, and ever early after the initial launch, there were lots of comments on Massively articles along the lines of "I really wanted to like this game, but once I had all the tools and the home I wanted, I no longer saw any reason to play, and I've just been checking in and adding skills, hoping some day there's more to do."  Those are the players Tiny Speck needs to target with a relaunch, not those of us still playing.  

    I do remember that stoot said in the Live Q&A that they have long envisioned a meta-game of providing balance between the giants or something similar, with more skills branching off from Piety, so the Giants will, someday, have a greater role than just serving as birdbath-shaped rubbish bins.  

    But I do think that your ideas here are generally excellent, and if I'm misunderstanding and there is a way to implement them without supplanting subscriber votes, I would fully endorse this idea.  And unleash naked hot fury on any who disagreed.  
    Posted 8 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Reinforcing and extending the STORY of Ur is a really, really good and important idea. There is currently a serious lack of narrative drive in Glitch, and a concomitant lack of the meaning and purpose(s) that makes people really attach to a community.

    Putting game mechanics up for a tithing vote is, however, probably both completely impracticable and likely to lead to bad results if implemented. The typical player is not a game designer, nor are we privy to the big picture and the delicate nature of checks and balances that make for good mechanics. Players "know what they want" and are frequently just wrong even about that. (I totally include myself in this indictment, btw.)

    More randomness, spontaneity, unpredictability, and caprice from the Giants would be excellent! It would shake things up, add interest. More activities and undertakings that bring glitchen together to work or play in teams or groups would help too. The housing change means we are, more than ever, bowling alone in Ur. Storylines can help us meet and take part in community experiences. We need challenges and puzzles and longer-form quests that mean something and that go beyond grinding for achievements and currants. Higher level players need some adversity to deal with and some tough, interesting problems to solve and some shared goals to strive for.

    Thanks for a stimulating post, Aviatrix!

    [P.S. The term "smarmalade" is absolute awesomesauce. I shall be reusing it liberally!]
    Posted 8 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really like the idea of bringing back/tying in some of the game's changes to the mythology of the Giants. Yes, some ironing would be needed as pointed out above, but I think that leading back to this would be a lovely touch that might indeed serve as a gentle reminder that this world we inhabit is not a static place--that there will be change, and that ultimately the game might not look at all the way it does now. Not everything can be communicated this way, of course, but where it's possible, yes. Me likey.

    As a sidebar, the "Kid's Room" quests (and, in hindsight, the Eesti Life Catalogue quest) led me to wonder if the giants are actually children, or are themselves in the mind of a child, and the Rook is symbolic of their growing up--of the loss of childlike imagination. As the child (or children) grow up and start thinking more like adults, with their imagination limited by the realities/practicalities of everyday life, we reach that dystopian future glimpsed on our search for Gwendolyn and in our journey to collect the firefly whistle.

    The capriciousness of child-imagination (and Giant-imagination) feeds nicely into the communication methods/reasoning for changes suggested by Aviatrix, I think. One day I wanna be a ballerina, the next a superhero, the next a chef for hamsters...and I can imagine that I can be whatever I want, as often as I want, until grown-up thinking, practicality and realism gradually take over. All us little glitchen are along for the ride.
    Posted 8 months ago by Voluptua Sneezelips Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the idea of putting the Giants in he game more. Now they're just kinda these stone bowls you dump stuff in. Come on, I want to meet and serve them

    By the way, the best part of your post was when Grenadline kicked Tii's ass in tiddlywinks. Heehee.
    Posted 8 months ago by SeerQueen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wonderful insights from all - Voluptua, I especially enjoyed your vision of the "metaverse" of Ur, and the importance of imagination not just as a form of beancounting (so to speak) but as part of the narrative propulsion of the game, as Pascale also sees it.

    The tithing count system was something I viewed more as a kind of polling system - really anything, something to move players out of the mode of "Let's fight/complain/bemoan about this in the forums" - if players can throw their weight behind a Giant that represents a particular move or countermove, there's feedback... With no forced implementation or acceptance implied. For whimsical changes (again referring back to Pascale's vision of the giants being more felt as a presence in the game) I think some player control could be great - this really does sort of fit with rook attacks in an expanded fashion. Again, it's just an idea intended to promote a sense of active agency in the game, things that can be done to shape the world (I mean, that IS part of TS's basic mission statement in all the Glitch materials I've seen, is some kind of player/world feedback) in the game. 

    These are release valves and satisfiers, and reinforce the idea that the important part of all of this is playing - not fighting about how to play, or what should or shouldn't happen in the future in forums, etc. - but actually providing an in-game mechanism to gather and redirect that energy. 

    Saucelah's concerns are all very logical cautionary words about the consequences of pushing what I've proposed to an extreme, and granting players too much control. I think we're already seeing some of consequences of an overinflated sense of player-determined control over development reflected in the level of urgency and entitlement frequently expressed in the forums. Which, granted, represents a very small slice of the player base. The General forum is a very particular cohort, and I'm not sure it functions well as a representative sampling of player attitudes and player types. Perhaps we'd get a much truer picture of player sentiment if player feedback could be measured in game actions instead of who screams the longest and loudest and has the most chiming in with the same in forums (not that this happens, of course, it merely hurts the ears). 

    Right now, players with grievances, suggestions, complaints, etc., are often asked to put them in the Ideas forum for consideration. I think it's pretty telling that the most, ahem, *oratorically minded* of the forum folk nevertheless insist on flooding Global/General with hyperbole, panic, and drama. I mean, yay that this stuff isn't reducing the signal-to-noise ratio in Ideas, I guess, but providing some kind of in-game mechanism to register opinions about negotiable items might diminish the frequency of these events - vexing time-wasters that produce a lot of entropy and bad mojo, requiring damage control to varying degrees, but not much else. Then again, some people like that kind of thing. Probably nobody in TS though. Is my theory. I thank staff heartily for their efforts; I could never do it. I have got an itchy trigger finger when it comes to the Block button and a real low tolerance for some things. 

    Mostly though, mostly what was most important to me was just resurfacing the basic fact of Glitch life: the giants ARE capricious, I mean, I'm not talking about some kind of transparent and fabled buck-passing from devs to Giants, this REALLY IS PART OF THE STORY. It always, always has been. People just FORGOT. Because that isn't really part of the narrative they get in the game, with exceptions noted in my original post. People just forgot. Or haven't been to the Rook Museum. 

    I do love the idea of more quests that enhance the mythology instead of promoting grinding. Voluptua tipped the hat to all of those. They are pretty great. 

    Heck, maybe it's just time to ask the intern (or whatever) to make another trailer reminding people that Ur *changes* and it does that A LOT. I honestly did not get the whole return to Beta thing considering that this game was, in theory, one that was "always already" (forgive me) in Beta - always changing and reacting and growing. When is it NOT going to be like that? Pretty much never, I think. Isn't that the whole point? 

    It's a point the game could be making to the players - not stoot, not the devs, the GAME. 
    Posted 8 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Agreed entirely on the need for more narrative to the game structure.  I have been missing that a lot in the previous months and in the little drop-in quests we have received.  I want more quests that are like The Tower or the Museum - things that advance the *story* of the game, rather than just one-off puzzles to be completed.

    When *will* the chickens rise up against their squeezers?  What is the vast conspiracy the bubble trees fear?  Where did that darned rook come from, and can he have baby rooks?  What killed all those poor Glitchen ghosts, and what if it comes back?  And what'd I need those DNA pieces for, anyway?  There are so many stories ready to be written within the Glitch universe, and I want to hear them.

    This quote from Pascale sums it up for me: "Storylines can help us meet and take part in community experiences. We need challenges and puzzles and longer-form quests that mean something and that go beyond grinding for achievements and currants."

    And I agree also that Lord Bacon-O is quite fantastic at staying "in character" in Live Help, which I quite enjoy.
    Posted 8 months ago by Zoethor2 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Very interesting, love your comparisons. Completely agree on the need for more Glitch backstory and myth. While the tithing system you explain probably would take some of the pressure off the devs, I think it has great potential to cause a lot of discordance and unhappiness among players. It would cause many more problems than it would solve.
    At the end of the day, while we all have our opinions, can and will post what we like/dislike, it's not like the majority of us will have any qualms if things don't go our way; the devs, I expect, understand this. For the few who get extremely passionate and threaten to quit about something, that's always going to happen and nothing will really prevent it.
    Posted 8 months ago by Omnika Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Very interesting read/thread, indeed! 

    Would definitely love to see more storylines in quests, too, and where the completion of them involves just as much meaning for want of a better word.  (I adored the story behind the faded heart quest but was a bit disappointed that our participation was somewhat left to chance. It would have been cool if perhaps further ghosts revealed more story/clues towards completing it.)  

    A bit torn with regards to the giants, specifically.  I agree that they seem to be more of a means to an end, but on the other hand, kind of like that they are somewhat removed/mysterious as it affords us the opportunity to develop our own stories if we are so inclined.  The occasional bolt of lightning, however, would probably be well-received ;)

    Complaints on any gaming forum, I think, is par for the course.  (People complain about the weather, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. >_<)  Maybe  'venting' is part of the process of accepting and eventually adapting to change for some.  Or a response that allows some to retain/regain a sense of control whether or not the terms can be renegotiated.  It just may be that anger is much easier and comfortable to latch on to than, say, feelings of uncertainty.

    ETA: Perhaps some of the occasional hostility on the forums could be minimised by not identifying too much with our own opinions and by respectfully allowing each other our say.  Seems the alternative only escalates matters, in my humble opinion.
    Posted 8 months ago by Christine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The lore and Giants were one of the most attractive draws to Glitch, for me. I would love to see more done on that side too. For instance, I think it's cool that the call for people to help with performance testing is done as something under the realm of Cosma. In some games I've played the gods actually are played by people and they add something tangible to the game. The rook museum and the quest in the tower were by far the most awesome tidbits experienced in Glitch so far.
    Posted 8 months ago by Spirit of Xanadhi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is all really interesting!

    Maybe things could be explained in the forums the way they are now, but with an additional in-game aspect.  I could see a section of the tower called "the modern history of Ur" that explains some of the game changes in the giant-influenced way.  Maybe players could subscribe to a newsletter the museum puts out, if they want to, putting a summary of changes in their mailbox as well as being available to look at in the tower.
    Posted 8 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A large part of the Glitch mythology has been removed from the game.

    Full details are here
    http://www.glitch-strategy.com/wiki/Story

    Perhaps when core mechanics are in place, the devs will have time to move the story forward again.
    Posted 8 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That would be fun! In the meantime, maybe a spoonful of story now and then could help the mechanics go down. Cool scripts, thanks for sharing. 
    Posted 8 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Windborn - how was all that incorporated into the game?  I mean, it's fantastic!  I really wish this was still present in the game...
    Posted 8 months ago by Zoethor2 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Zoethor2

    When you interacted with various objects, they sometimes gave you snippets of the stories. 
    Posted 8 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Glitch needs more history.
    Posted 8 months ago by AwesomeCardinal2000 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oops, posted before I was ready. Ignore this post and blame my phone.
    Posted 8 months ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The story of Glitch being imagined by 11 Giants was one of the draws that brought me to the sign up page, and I'd definitely like to see it made more real. The most intriguing parts of the game, as already mentioned, have been the parts that remind us that we are being imagined. Thanks also for bringing up the "constant ebb and flow of imagination" quote. If it were emphasized more that this is the condition of Glitchian life, this would be a more peaceful world. I would like to see more Giants' actions behind the changes, too. The devs tell us the game-mechanics reasons behind the changes. Nice as this is, it de-immerses us from Ur, reminding us that this is a game on a screen in the real world created by devs who have the power to change anything. And for some reason, many people think that the devs will do what we want- and as wisely said by I'm-too-lazy-to-scroll-up-and-see-who, what we want isn't always what we want. An example (that probably isn't very good but shows what I mean): "Humbaba was worried that all those tombstones were scaring her beloved piggie-wiggies, so they won't stay for long after death now." Then when we complain in the forums, the devs could take a leaf out of Lord Bacon-o's book. "Well, Zille didn't agree with Humbaba. She liked those nice stony tombstones. Maybe you should take it up with her." We could have another option on icons or shrines for the Giants in question, in this case Humbaba and Zille, to Petition or Support or something. The mode of making major planning decisions could still be subscriber votes- this is just a supporting and venting system. Of course it should be made clear that the Giants aren't really likely to listen to insignificant little Glitchen- we're just figments of their imagination!

    ETA: I'm definitely guilty of slathering on the smarmalade, but mostly because for some reason I get absurdly excited when there are updates. And post what I'm thinking. Which contains a lot of "eee!" And then I look back at my posts and laugh.

    EETA: Thanks for an insightful and stimulating post, Aviatrix.
    Posted 8 months ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As someone who adores roleplaying in MMOs (I did it in WoW and Ragnarok Online), I'd love to see more storylines and more with the Giants. I actually adore Bacon-o's story and almost wanted to come up with something similar on the names of the days of the week, just never got around to it. I also teasingly make jokes to my Glitchy friends in The Hendarchy and another RP group. While I love the devs for creating such a wonderful game, I'm not one of the players who really sees them as the Gods, that's not how this game is. unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of people with a roleplaying mindset, and some people could give two shakes on some kind of storyline. I would've loved to have seen those snippets of convo that someone linked above me in game because I like them. I'd like a little back story, or something that progresses, maybe the rock can tell more of a story. Some quests give a little insight (such as the mail one in which the former mail carriers were bats and they clung to Glitches faces, happy to meet a friend) but not enough. I am seriously loving all the ideas presented here, and do hope for more storyline in the future. (Also, my gnomes make references to the Giants and other Glitchy things based off some non Glitch stuff, but I love Glitchifying things for my Gnomes to say.)
    Posted 8 months ago by Ayasta Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Love this concept and the comments too.

    I also really like the mini-idea (lost in all the solemnity) of all of us waking up as frogs one day (but just for one day). Well, why-ever not? Randomness is good! and a way of reminding us the Giants exist and they have whimsies beyond our control.

    Definitely need the mythology emphasised and more use of Imagination, for real and I hope TS is working towards towards all this than just creating dollhouses (which are awesome but I WANTS MOAR).
    Posted 8 months ago by natsumi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I suspect the most pressing reason for the focus on the houses is to boost the revenue bandwidth and motivate more subscription/credit purchases - fair enough, as TS needs to meet all its operational needs and increase investor confidence. That said, it's way more than just a dollhouse - every new skill, new area, and the new metric (xp to imagination) are all tied to the new housing in one way or another. The desire to take advantage of all the decorating options will drive credit sales and/or subscriptions at least for a bit, but it looks like there are going to be some pretty substantial game mechanisms related to the housing, in addition to the clear use and application of the new skills (metal and woodworking, fiber arts, animals related to production of housing-related materials, areas for them to live in) it looks like there *might* be some interesting gameplay changes related to Imagination. Who knows, though. 

    So that could be the reason that there's no story, no shared narrative, no world-building outside of the map, intriguing quests that imply much but then just... Don't continue. The elimination of the storytelling by game NPCs/resources (trees, animals, etc.) makes me wonder if that just turned out to be low/no priority, because even before all the big recent dev pushes it didn't seem like a thing. 

    When I first joined the game after watching the trailer, I was expecting something with way more story. The quests are almost all about grinding, even the group quests. When I saw the Rook Museum I got wicked hyped, because I thought I was on the threshold of the part of the game that was about more than resource harvesting. But in the end, there currently is no part of the game that is about more than resource harvesting. People make their own fun, which is great, and groups like Sandbox and others did some fun guerilla quests and installations. 

    I could be totally wrong, of course. Maybe TS knows something I don't know about what players Really Want, and most of them don't Really Want narrative arcs.

    But without all that fantastic implied worldbuilding, mythology, narrative, etc. - Glitch is ultimately just a Fisher-Price version of Second Life. Easier to use, cuter, less tawdry, more indie, but basically the same thing, albeit with really different aesthetics. And hey! That could be super profitable for TS. Second Life is no slouch in the revenue department, they've been clearing around 100M a year. Making a cute sprite-based version of Second Life is not at all a bad idea if you want to make some money. And I don't think there's tooooo much peril of it being over-run by kids. Adolescents prefer to play at being grown-ups rather than playing at being children. They're more apt to go in for Second Life etc. than Glitch. VERY small children like Glitch a LOT (not that I've put my preschool-aged nieces to work grinding pigs and trees for me or anything), and so do grownups. But I think I've run across maybe two or three teenagers the entire time I've been playing and they either socialize up to an adult level (when they don't get desired responses to things like "pl0x lemme PLAY wit ur ROOK pl0x!" they sometimes resort to actual English) or get mad and go away. 
    Posted 8 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think your observations are right on, Aviatrix.

    But I am motivated by meaning and beauty, not by the prospect of accumulating stuff. I hope the future holds less grinding and more story. I also hope there will be ways for players to bring their own creativity into the game. Otherwise, I'll pretty much be done here.
    Posted 8 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Alot of words so i type less words so others dont spend too much time on one post.

    I love the idea of getting back the idea of Ur's Mythology, and how they would imagine alot of stuff, and then it would become more and more and more realistic.

    Have you seen the Percy Jackson Movie/Books? In those books, the Gods (Or in this case giants), after doing stuff (In this case, imagining), stopped caring, and stopped paying attention to the humans (Or in this case glitchen). As the story goes in the actual greek myth, Promethus, one of the titans, gave fire to the humans, and it made the humans look up to the gods, when they didnt want to be noticed. so the humans (Or glitch) donated stuff Via Fire, (OITC, Shrines) to the Gods (OITC, Giants), even though they wished to stay unnoticed.

    That's how I've noticed things in Glitch, because of how much glitch and Greek are alike:

    1. G in the name
    2. 1 Syllable
    3. Stone Tablets placed around Ur, and Groddle Island with pictures of Symbols, mainly involving Giants.
    4. Statues, (Kukubee)
    5. Dieing, takes you underground, (Not hell in greek), where it is ruled by a Thing, usually unnoticed (Greek: Hades, Glitch: I really dont know, Face dude)

    See my point now, and also, i think i typed too much

    Do you see the connection? That has been my perspective on things,
    Posted 8 months ago by Taco Assassin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i haven't got anything interesting to add except *bump* because i agree that this is pretty important and i hope the powers that be read this :)

    you've all made some really good points. i wish i'd been around in the days when the animals and trees told parts of the story. i love the story. i want to know more of it.

    like fernstream said, that was what drew me to this game in the first place. it was so unique and exciting.
    Posted 8 months ago by onion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pascale, I'm in the same boat. In many ways I've been waiting since I started - waiting to see what the game would be like. I have RL and new friends here, and I think I'll be around as long as they're here to play with, but I'm so tired of grinding. So tired. I would love some story. Every game I've ever enjoyed has had a narrative of some sort, quests that build on each other in a kind of interactive epic, something I can really enjoy. For the most part, Glitch is something I do as a multitask thing. It had my full attention for the first few weeks, but since then it has become a chat client with fidget features - stuff to do while IMing with my friends, either in game or irl on the phone, or whatever. I've been grinding for the big xp/imagination conversion, but once that happens I'm not sure. As the annoying actor once said to the director, "what's my motivation?" There's only so much grinding that non-OCD people are really going to enjoy, and only so long they'll enjoy doing it. 

    And I don't buy the frequent refrain that you should just do random unmotivated stuff in the game and groove on it for its own sake. Maybe that would work if I was on drugs, or if I enjoyed feckless, pointless, unrewarding activity as long as it involves bright colors and shiny music. WHICH I DO, incidentally. The occasionally feckless part, not the drug part. But not forever. There's only so much candy and cookies a human being will eat before they start craving meat. Or some non-animal-based protein, if you're a vegan and don't swing that way.  
    Posted 8 months ago by Aviatrix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This thread is so amazingly awesome! Some thoughts:

    - It would be entirely possible for the devs to offer some sort of Giant-related quasi-voting between alternatives that they consider reasonable. Just as no major American presidential candidate is going to propose nationalizing Coca-Cola, presumably none of the Giants would offer to do anything that the devs thought would harm or restrict the game.

    - What if various Giants did stuff roughly analogous to Rook attacks? Like, a street briefly experiences a Visitation of Alph, and there are crazy lights and portents in the sky, and some of the trees etc. change, and tools rain down from heaven, and items in your inventory randomly change from one thing to another.

    - How would you add longer, more involved quests to Glitch without significantly changing the gameplay? The only thing I can think of is if we had like quest-recipes, where we mixed up some insanely intricate thing for some narrative purpose. But it would be cooler if the ingredients were somehow more magic-like than just standard commodities. Maybe you would have to like harvest Purple flowers at midnight exactly as one of the ingredients, or other such weird restrictions. Or the devs could add extremely rare wild plants that spawned at random that were necessary for quest recipes, and couldn't be auctioned for some reason. Maybe they are too delicate and/or magical to survive being transported to auction. Or maybe harvesting the magical plants somehow requires players to cooperate in some way.
    Posted 8 months ago by Kludge Subscriber! | Permalink