Topic

Allow SDB vending prices to be decimals.

Not sure if this would work, but it would be neat with certain resources - e.g. fiber, planks, cherries - to be able to price them in our SDBs as a non-whole number. This is a good example of a scenario that, if taken to the SDBs, could really benefit from this type of thing, I think. (If a Glitch ends up purchasing something that isn't a whole number of currants, it should probably round down in favor of the purchaser.)

Posted 4 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • +1
    Posted 4 months ago by eruthros Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to this
    Posted 4 months ago by Arietty Subscriber! | Permalink
  • -1 Glitch is already way too math-y.  Whole numbers only please, and less math.
    Posted 4 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • -1 I just don't see a reason why, that and i think the math should stay as basic as possible
    Posted 4 months ago by Lyrical DejaVu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Assuming this was implemented with clear communication of what happens in cases of rounding, I think it would be pretty easy for anybody to deal with an adjustment of this kind. (edit: I feel as though it would be easy for most people to deal with an environment with the implemented suggestion, and for the rest I feel as though it wouldn't be significantly harder to operate in that environment than in the current one; see other edit below.)

    If you're buying from the SDB it'll tell you what the total is, absolutely no math required. If you're looking at what to buy before finding a particular SDB, you can look at price listings and see that a certain number is in between two other listings, and that's not math, that's just a comparison.*

    And if you're selling and you don't want to worry about this particular option then I'm assuming you're not trying to optimize your pricing anyway, so it's not like you're losing anything by having the option available and not wanting to take it. And for anyone who would want to optimize their pricing.. well again, you'd look at the prices of things and set your price in between, or lower, or wherever you would want to put the price - absolutely the same process as what happens now.

    The reason why is simple: give sellers more control over their pricing (and possibly in doing so make a lot of things end up a bit cheaper, benefiting buyers as well.) It's definitely not an issue with potions or furniture or what have you. But when you're talking an SDB full of 3k, 4k, or 10k of a basic resource that is so low per unit to begin with, a difference in price of one currant per unit can sometimes be a lot.

    *edit: If you're looking at the price listings and trying to see how much X amount of item Y would cost then, yes, math. But there's already a math aspect; I use glitchremote/auctions and Google together all the time. (Google 8 times 34 for example: instant calculator tool!) With higher numbers of items, as you'll get with basic resources, you will (unless you're good with mental math, or are dealing with really round numbers) need to use a calculator anyway. I think people who have trouble with this (i.e. having trouble with being able to get calculators to work well for them, or who don't want to use calculators when playing) wouldn't find too much additional trouble with the addition of decimals.

    I also feel like the trouble (additional trouble over all instances of purchasing throughout the Glitch population) wouldn't be a huge increase because: If you're buying item X, you'll want to find the lowest price on item X, and then buy Xes, and then you're in the no-math situation I mentioned above with the SDB giving you the total. I'm not sure people really ever ask themselves "how many X can I get for Y amount of currants" although I could be wrong. I feel like if people *do* ask the latter question, any negative change from my suggestion from those who have the above-mentioned issues with calculators would really be outweighed by overall benefits.

    (It could help maybe to have things be in multiples of a quarter? I'd been envisoning something like that in the first place and hadn't mentioned, sorry.)
    Posted 4 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1.8 to decimal prices. 

    And omg people, really? you're counting decimals as math? You're counting it as "non-simple" math? When you buy something and get 79 cents in change do you say "naw, just keep the math"?

    Auctions already allow decimal pricing. Vendors use decimal pricing. Freakin shrines use decimal pricing. It'd be good of SDBs fell in line.
    Posted 4 months ago by M<3tra, obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Please, what is SDB?
    Posted 4 months ago by Annettee Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1.2 for decimal based pricing
    +3.8 for auction style pricing, where you can price a whole stack. The final price per each may be fractional, which can then be displayed on the SDB if under 10c.

    There is a huge difference between selling meat at 7c ( 420c a stack, which is a fire sale price) and selling at 8c ( 480c, which is close to a ripoff). Being able to sell ar 450c a stack is much more efficient economically.
    Posted 4 months ago by Sturminator IX Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 I agree, this needs to be competitive with the Auction House.
    Posted 4 months ago by Kerlick Subscriber! | Permalink
  • -1 Whole numbers only please!
    Posted 4 months ago by Ona1 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wait, what?

    I really need this explained to me.

    KhaKhonsu, Lyrical DejaVu, or Ona1, could you help me understand?

    Would any of you go to the auctions page and see something like this and ignore everything but the highlighted listings? Would you buy the stacks of allspice for 1500 or 1740 even though you could get a stack for 1425?

    Or for towers - Glitch Remote lists allspice at 5c per each allspice right now. Is it a bad thing to have me be able to list it at 4.8? That gets you a deal and helps me sell faster (whereas no, I wouldn't want to price it at 4).

    If you *do* want to ignore everything with decimals, can't you do that as easy in the towers as you could in the auction house?

    I am seriously not understanding the objections here, so if any of you could help me I'd really appreciate it.
    Posted 3 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • -1 to decimals!

    I insist on fractions! Sometimes 6 7/23c is just the right price. Especially if you have 17 left.
    Posted 3 months ago by Zogje Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +π to this

    I would also like to add that TS should not discriminate against numbers, and allow not just natural numbers, but integers (including negative numbers, if we're feeling generous), real numbers, irrational numbers (square root 2!) and complex numbers too!
    Posted 3 months ago by Boom and Bust Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My problem with the decimal idea is that it means that they must be able to split the currants we have in our possession to the same decimal place - or - they will have to make it so that items can only be purchased in predetermined batch sizes. When you buy at 4.5c a piece on the AH, you are buying a predetermined size batch that cannot be split up - that is not how SDB's work.

    If we look at rounding as a solution, that can be exploited, ala Office Space.

    The system is just not currently set up for something like this, and it looks like major changes would be needed to make it feasible.
    Posted 3 months ago by Belle Z. Bub Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was definitely not thinking along the lines of splitting currants or purchasing in batch sizes, but I also hadn't been thinking how rounding could be exploited.   Are you talking about major changes in regards to the exploitation, or in regards to something else? I'm not sure how easily the existence of decimals in the auctions would transfer to SDBs. Also, I'm not familiar with Office Space and I'm not seeing how the exploitation would happen but that's an objection that I think has tons more impact than the "math" thing.

    Thanks Belle.
    Posted 3 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The exploitation is related to the math.

    You are selling meat in your tower for 7.5 currants a piece, which is 450 currants per stack.

    If the system rounds down, a person can buy one meat at a time for 7c per, making each stack of 60 only cost 420c, causing the seller to lose 30c per stack.

    If the system rounds up, and a person (or group of people) buy the same stack of meat from you one piece at a time for 8c each, the total stack costs 480c, and you have overcharged your customers.

    Since the system rounding down is more likely, on every 1000 meat you sell (one piece at a time), you will lose 500 currants due to the rounding on single pieces. The only way to stop the currant loss on either side is to split currants, or to change SBD's to only sell predetermined portions, like the auctions do.

    In Office Space, three employees steal a considerable amount of money by "collecting" the rounded portions of bank transactions.

    Hope this makes my thoughts more clear.
    Posted 3 months ago by Belle Z. Bub Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *nod* Thanks so much for the explanation!

    Perhaps it's something that could work with the batch sizes that people elsewhere have been requesting.  In any case, there's definitely more to think about than I had originally presumed (as you said, there'd need to be changes).  I still do think that if the changes were to be implemented in a behind-the-scenes fashion it'd be possible to present it to players in a non-confusing fashion.

    Thanks again Belle :)
    Posted 3 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I did read your example you gave diaveborn, but overall i didn't see the need for it. Generally speaking i don't like to complicate things whenever possible. That aside if were talking batch prices as long as a batch still ended in a whole number that would be fine. But batches and individual items, should end up being whole numbers not decimals. Decimals for non-batch single items i don't think is necessary. Other than batch prices i see decimals as complicating things more, or at least more than is needed.
    Posted 3 months ago by Lyrical DejaVu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for the further reply :)

    Basically it seems like the issues would be with the rounding - not just a "having trouble rounding in my head" thing or something like, but one that even computers would have.

    I was talking with my husband just now about some of the stuff in the thread, and he was saying possibly rounding in favor of the seller would be good to avoid exploitation. For some reason I'm uncomfortable with the idea of rounding in favor of the seller.  I think it's just an emotional thing and in actuality the buyers wouldn't get hurt very much, especially if this were only implemented with basic resources, as with some of the quantities, you wouldn't have to buy much more to get to a whole number, or if you didn't get a whole number it wouldn't be far off, although I could be wrong (and I could be miswording things very badly as I am quite sleepy atm).

    But, possibly something could be programmed in regards to the "buying things" user interface.  Of course the batch sizes, but that's something that wouldn't be as automated... would it be hard for it to, instead of allowing us to purchase in multiples of one allspice, allow us to purchase in whatever multiples needed for a whole number?

    That would have to clearly be communicated to both buyer and seller, and I'm guessing it would require enough behind the scenes work that the time currently is probably better spent elsewhere.  But I still stand firm in my belief that if implemented well it could be presented in a relatively simple fashion and wouldn't have to be a hard transition to make :)

    Thank you everyone so much for the feedback! :)
    Posted 3 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (for reference: batch limits/vendybots/bundles, most recent thread here)
    Posted 3 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink