Topic

Stop the griefing in the Comunity Herb Gardens

Glitch Change Log

"So migrant gardeners can have time to admire their work, public plots'll be locked to the seed planter for 60 seconds after harvestin time."
13 days ago.

Thanks Tiny Speck, thank you indeed, this thread can now rest in peace.

****************************************************************************************************************** 


TOO LONG, DIDN´T READ:
 THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ABUSE, NOT PICKED HERBS. There are Glitchens using unfair tactics to grief the users of the Herb Gardens BEYOND the normal "free for everyone", like using gameshow wheels to block your view of your crops and camping with 2 or 3 thieve friends to block your vision or splanking you and then proceeding to group steal your crops. They are actively mugging people in the herb gardens, not just picking stuff for free. This needs to be solved

Regardless of the rules of the gardens, or rules of the game...what we do notice in the end is that the area does promote griefing.  People see people planting, and naturally, they know that if they get at the harvest before the other person does, it causes grief.  Minor grief, yes, but distress is distress.  Sure, no one is entitled to what they plant per se, and anyone can harvest whatever they want, but that does not prevent the core issue, it is causing strife altogether.

So instead of arguing about who is right, whether it be the planters or the griefers, perhaps it would make more sense for a solution that would benefit everyone to come about.  I.E., brainstorming.  Arguing back and forth is not doing anything for anyone.  So let's all try solve the problem, and perhaps TS will listen and implement what we come up with, if it is good enough and lets everyone be happy!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  * * * * * * * * *  * * * * * * * * *  * * * * * * * * *  * * * * * * * * *  * * * * * * * * * 
REST OF THE OPENING POST EDITED: I have decided to remove from the front page my original Opening Post because the actual debate and conversation doesn´t fit anymore into it, and I feel that pressing the issue to move forward is more important than chew on something that isn´t relevant anymore, and is better than opening a new thread.

It was edited not to misguide anyone or trying to hide something, is just a tool to keep the debate at hand on track.

If you are still interested in reading it (is long, boring, filled angst and frustration, and irrelevant to the actual conversation) you can find it here: 

docs.google.com/document/d/...

Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Mikah, calling out by name in the forums is not permitted.  You should edit your post to make the griefer anonymous. 

    One thing to remember is that everything that is planted is public property.  Not yours provided you remain "attentive," but public property. 

    However, using gameshow wheels to block your view of the herb gardens does not seem like fair play. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i1218.photobucket.com/album...

    It's pretty clear to me that if you plant a seed in the herb garden it's for someone else to pick.
    Posted 12 months ago by Octo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So, uh.. Buy a house with herb plots.

    Also, you can stand in front of the plot and press enter. There's no such thing as "blocking" if you know how to access the things that are behind the obstruction.
    Posted 12 months ago by Bit Stranger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL!  This is called gameplay, not griefing.  If you want to plant herbs in a quiet spot, sell your fat honking Alakol mansion and buy a bog house.  If you are too materialistic to do this, you won't get any sympathy from me.
    Posted 12 months ago by Jewel Stoned Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not enough leather and spikes in the Community Herb Gardens to be Mad Max II, if you ask me...
    Posted 12 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ok, before everyone gets too entrenched in defending how they play the game: Identify the problem and lets think on Glitchy ways we can solve it.
    As I see it its part community education regarding the culture of Glitch
    and Part lack of resources
    There are solutions
    Lets find them
    Posted 12 months ago by DameChaos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Off topic, but would someone please tell me what AFK stands for? 

    (Ignorant Glitch here!)
    Posted 12 months ago by Fergmus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow. If the wheel blocks your view, it does their view too...so...what?
    Posted 12 months ago by Trucker Dave Subscriber! | Permalink
  • AFK = Away From Keyboard
    Posted 12 months ago by Trucker Dave Subscriber! | Permalink
  • away from komputer lol thats what iI first thought it was then I realised I fail at spelling
    Posted 12 months ago by Richelle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Added a TOO LONG DIDN´T READ paragraph at the beginning of the opening post to clarify my point.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Erm, Hi, guys

    I think many commenters so far have not only missed the point of the post but missed the point of the game entire.

    Picking herbs that someone else is actively tending from the community gardens, It's low but like the sign says it's a free for all.

    Mocking the person whose time you've just wasted is rude and solid grounds for a report.

    Any action taken with the intent of making sure you get the herbs and someone else doesn't, all that "gameplay" just like spawn point camping, teabagging fallen opponents, ganking newbies and all that other stuff that 13 year-olds with too much testosterone and too little self respect consider just fine until it happens to them.
    Then they scream, whine and stamp their spider man booties until mummy comes to make it better.
    Posted 12 months ago by Duke Euphoria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @October Blue: They bring 2 or 3 friends and actively hits the "enter" key over your plots while blocking your view with the gameshow wheel. 

    You are fighting agains 4 organized dudes that are hellbent on steal your stuff, not just one random glitchens that happened to be there when the crop bloomed.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Scarlett Bearsdale: Thanks for the heads up, names blurred to protect the... uhm... "innocent".

    And yes, the whole point of the thread is to deal with the griefers that can effectively turn the rules of the game to their exclusive benefit.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Octo: I´m not against te "up for grabs" rule, I´m against dudes that protect their griefing activities behind that rule. Please read the entire post and then come back to me.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm afraid since TS has specifically abdicated the responsibility for creating a better environment in the community gardens with the signs they have put up, anarchy is the rule.  There is no way for users to encourage, much less enforce standards of politeness on other players, since we have no way to punish or restrict each other.  Generally I am not in favor of users policing other users, but then, I am not in favor of the game situation that TS has created in this case.  Those of us who believe that taking away someone else's effort for your own benefit is criminal behavior are stuck.  We are forced to change our gameplay preferences, and either buy a house we do not like, buy goods at an unreasonable price, or engage in the bullying behavior that we dislike in others.  So far tincturing and potion making aren't important enough to me to force me into any of these choices, but it really sucks the fun out of the game to have this situation exist at all.  Since the community herb gardens are so rare, this conflict is on a much greater scale than the previous mining and tree wars.
    Posted 12 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Bit Stranger: Have you tried to harvest a 12 herb plot with your view blocked and 2 or 3 guys hitting their "enter" keys at the same time?

    They block your view and then camp the plot, by chance they are bound to get some if not most of your harvest while you try to hit enter.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you want to grow herbs for yourself, use a private plot:  either buy a bog house or share a friend's house.

    If you want to plant herbs for other people, use a public plot in the Community Gardens.

    Don't confuse the two.  

    What on earth were you trying to accomplish by claiming that a 12-herb plot was "yours"???
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Jewel Stoned: Is not gameplay when the thieves are using mafia tactics to get your stuff, please read the Opening Post to understand my point, I´m not complaining at the "up for grabs" policy.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @WindBorn: 12 herb plots are not mine, but the guano, the seeds and the time are mine, and the product of their mix are my herbs. Other Glitchens that are harvesting there understand that.

    Now if I LEFT THEM THERE AND GO AWAY, they are up for grabs and anyone can get them, but if I´m planting them I shouldn´t be harassed by others screaming "UP FOR GRABS, UP FOR GRABS LOL U NOOB REPORT ME".

    That sucks, this is a game of kindness and that needs to be corrected.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Duke Euphoria: Good point, thanks for sharing it.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mikah, I have a suggestion for you.  As the majority of Glitches are adamant about the community garden rules and want to stay that way, you are better off not using the gardens.  Seriously, you will only get attacked viciously by people supporting griefers because in effect, the griefers are using a mechanic to legally steal your stuff.  They are going to get away with it because TS says it is ok.  Instead of staying a victim, I would say do your best to find another place to go, or buy a bog house until we get custom housing.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mereret: Excactly my point, thanks for sharing.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ok, before everyone gets too entrenched in defending how they play the game: Identify the problem and lets think on Glitchy ways we can solve it.
    As I see it its part community education regarding the culture of Glitch
    and Part lack of resources
    There are solutions
    Lets find them
    Posted 12 months ago by DameChaos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ok, before everyone gets too entrenched in defending how they play the game: Identify the problem and lets think on Glitchy ways we can solve it.
    As I see it its part community education regarding the culture of Glitch
    and Part lack of resources
    There are solutions
    Lets find them
    Posted 12 months ago by DameChaos Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Kirnan: And let a game of kindness go down in flames? No way dude, I got to stand to my point.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL, I like this post, he's funny.
    Posted 12 months ago by DJ Ace Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mikah, it is still a game of kindness.  

    The kindness is that you freely plant in the Community Gardens, for other Glitches to harvest.

    If you don't want to be kind in that particular fashion, you need to use private gardens.

    TS has made it clear that Community Gardens are designed to be places where you cannot make any claims.  Not claims that it's your guano, your seed, your time.  The only thing you can do in Community Gardens is plant things for others.  

    The staff response to earlier claims of "mine" was to post signs reminding us all not to misinterpret the rules.  The gardens are not able to be made private property even if you planted, watered, and guanoed a single plot.  That plot is not "yours" because of your actions.
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You have a lot of people against you, just block the griefers and stay around people who are good.  When enough people block them, they won't have anyone to bother anymore.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @WindBorn: I fully understand all that, that is not my point.

    My point is that the comunity Herb Gardens are spawning a new kind of Glitchen that have found a way to make you misserable. This sounds right to you?:

    1.- Organize your own mafia
    2.- Go into the comunity gardens
    3.- Attack every plot with your crime pals spawning gameshow wheels and splanking people, mass clicking all the plots.
    4.- Tell everybody that your behaviour is not only right but approved by the designers of the game.
    5.- Go away.

    Nice, uh?
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's funny, but people who just plant and leave, or who just come by and harvest a few herbs don't seem to have any issues.

    The only people who are attracting the 'new kind of Glitchen' are those who try to use the public gardens as private property.  

    It's not the gardens that are attracting them.  It's the Glitches who try to make the public plots private.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @WindBorn: so, as your logic:

    1.- The dudes that are doing it wrong are the dude that feeds bats to pick some guano, pick or buys some seeds and want to plant some herbs to make some potions

    2.- The dudes that are doing it right are the other ones that organize a range of tactics from straight grieffing to organize groups of thieves to take advantage of the users on the herb garden.

    Interesting, strange but interesting.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mikah, let me give you another piece of advice, don't argue with Windborn, he will argue back until the end of time, and demand you concede to his perception of reality.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for all you guys for giving your grain of salt on this argument, been enlightening
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Kirnan: Been eating arguments and spitting logic since my college years, I can manage that :)
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are several issues being discussed here, and I want to address just one of them, namely what models of use are appropriate for community gardens given that they are a public resource? 

    I believe there are different models that may be applied to public resources, and one of them is sequential use.  When I borrow a book from the public library or sit on a bench in a public park, I am making sequential use of a public resource. The sequential use model is appropriate in these cases, because the nature of the public resource is such that only one person can use that resource at a given time. 

    A Glitch community garden plot is not the same as a library book or park bench, but neither is it the same as a Glitch piggie or a Glitch tree on a Glitch public street.  Trees and piggies can be harvested and nibbled by multiple people without the actions of one impacting the actions of another. 

    An empty plot in a community garden is a resource in that it can be planted to help fulfill a quest or to gain XP. When one player plants that plot, that resource is removed from the game for a period of time. Until whatever was planted in the plot matures, the plot cannot be planted by any other player.  

    When you plant a seed in a community garden, whether you walk away or not, you have made sequential use of a public resource. You've also taken an action that will cause a different kind of resource, namely a harvestable crop or herb, to appear in the future. That second resource can be harvested by one person.  If the person who harvests a plot then plants a seed of the same type in that plot, their use of the public resource provided by the community garden is functionally the same as that of a person who plants and then harvests -- provided both parties do equivalent watering and fertilization. 

    Those who harvest and then plant are following a sequential use model, as are those who plant and then harvest. The former is geared towards a spontaneous approach to gameplay, whereas the latter is geared towards a planful approach to gameplay. When plots are plentiful (relative to the number of players wanting to use plots), the two forms of game play can co-exist with little or no friction.  As plots become more of a scarce resource, the two modes of play come into conflict. 

    What I think is important to realize here is that each approach has advantages and disadvantages, and there are real-world models for sequential use of public resources that correspond to each.  Those who argue for a spontaneous harvest-then-plant model are not advocating for theft.  Neither are those who argue for a planful plant-then-harvest model asserting ownership of public property. 

    Game mechanics currently favor the harvest-then-plant model, which does not require any additional action or involvement on the part of the devs. This model seems to me to be less compatible with the needs of those trying to complete quests, but more compatible with altruistic behavior (i.e. planting for others). However, this model also does seem to be providing cover for actions that are primarily intended to cause hurt and distress for other players.
    Posted 12 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Splendora: I think I love you. Thanks for the wonderfull insight.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not his perception of reality he defends -- it's Tiny Speck's perception of their creation.  

    To respond, yes, the people that expect to have the singular right to harvest a plot because it contains their seeds and guano are indeed doing it wrong.  

    However, HOWEVER! None of us pointing this out believe that Group #2 is doing it right.  

    There is a third group that is doing it right: those that harvest what they need and plant what they can without camping at all.  

    And Group 2 would cease to exist if there was no group 1.  

    From the community guidelines "public resources are public, treat them as a shared resource"  

    Camping a plot and claiming ownership of what you placed in that plot is not treating it as a shared resource, and potentially against the community guidelines.  Once you've placed those seeds and added that guano, they belong to anyone, no matter what methods they use to acquire them.  

    I also don't believe you have any proof that these players are organized, and such seems highly unlikely to me.  There are much easier ways to make currants in this game.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Splendora:  

    There are already private plots in this game.  They are not in the Community Gardens.  It is not a place for sequential ownership.  The self-interests of the planters do not outweigh those of the harvesters.  

    Simply cease trying to use the community gardens in a way neither the game mechanics nor the developers support, and the problem will similarly cease to be.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd also like to add that no quests are required, and few skills are gamebreaking if you can't take advantage of them (aside, perhaps, from the Better Learnings and Teleportations, but those are not complicated by others, ever).  

    If you do find it necessary to accomplish these quests for the sake of your game play style, then work within the game mechanics to acquire private plots rather than expect others to acknowledge your unsupportable claim of temporary ownership.  You will find your time in game less frustrating, and I will find the forums less cluttered with unrealistic demands for others to conform to the will of a few.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Splendora: I love you more than Mikah does! (Seriously, great post; thank you.)
    Posted 12 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Saucelah: .You say that "I also don't believe you have any proof that these players are organized, and such seems highly unlikely to me." . Let me tell you that they are real, I´ve seen them in action, it happened to me today and it was the most awful and heartbreaking moment I had on this game.

    I don´t claim plot ownership, I plant my stuff and when I´m done I leave stuff plated for others to harvest (not allways purple, eh?), I just would love to plant stuff and be effectively able to take some for myself.

    Quid pro Quo.
    Posted 12 months ago by Mikah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Expecting to have the right to harvest what you plant and being upset if others do is indeed claiming ownership, however temporary.  The community gardens are not the place for it, and this Group #2 only exists as long as Group #1 exists.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And I see your perception of their actions, but I see no proof that it was planned or that they indeed were working together in any way.  

    I've been yelled at for spinning tickets in others' ways before -- am I now out to get you if I spin a wheel near you in a Community Garden?  I assure you I am not working with anyone, but if I had spun the wheel near you while someone else took your herbs, would you then lump me in with the others?  

    Simply perceiving cooperation does not cooperation make.   See?
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Saucelah - When I check out a book from the library, I am making sequential use.  This is not an assertion of ownership.  The fact that I could purchase the book does not invalidate the sequential use model of public resources.

    I agree that once a seed is planted in a public garden it becomes a public asset.  I am simply pointing out that those who use the community gardens to complete a plant-and-harvest quest are making the same functional use of public assets whether they plant and harvest what they themselves planted or harvest one plot and then plant in another.

    If the community gardens should not be used for completing plant-and-harvest quests, but only to plant for others, then I suggest changing the instructions for those quests so that they do not include the suggestion of using a community garden.
    Posted 12 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Except this is not a library.  And it has been said by the owners of the garden, Tiny Speck, that neither group's self-interest outweighs the other.  

    Community Gardens can be used for these quests, only if the players using them understand that no one there is obligated in any way to assume someone standing near a plot owns its contents, and that they might have to plant 2, 3, or maybe even 10x more than the quest requires in order to do so.  If they do not want that, work with the game to get access to private plots.  

    it's just that simple.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have a question regarding the "buy a bog house if you want private herb plots" line of reasoning.

    If you buy one type of house, you are then prevented from having access to a private source of the other type of garden. It's the only instance in the entire world of Ur (that I'm aware of anyway) where that is the case. Why do you suppose that divide exists?

    I think it's a bit odd, frankly. I'll say, preemptively, that I think a reason such as "so people will work cooperatively instead of treating Glitch as a single-player game" is insufficient. If that was the case, there would be many more instances of a divide, not just this one.
    Posted 12 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I believe it is just a result of linking housing and resources to regions. Similarly, you can't have fireflies and do not have barnacles in the mansions.  

    While I do not think that there will necessarily be an option to have both plots in the new housing (though I do think it possible), I won't be surprised if they make it much easier to change the type you have as they have said we will have more control over which resources are available at our homes after The Big Update.  
    Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have had two types of experiences in the community gardens.

    1.  On numerous visits it has been a very pleasant atmosphere.  There are several glitches gardening, sharing empty plots, offering seeds, guano and harvesting and giving the herbs to a glitch that goes afk.  There is also charade playing and cubimal racing while we are waiting for herbs to bloom.  Some glitches are quiet and don't get involved, but over-all a very good time.  

    2.  On a number of visits it has not been so pleasant.  Sometimes there are glitches sharing and interacting and then while waiting to harvest the herb that is about to bloom a glitch comes up and blocks you, super clicks your harvest and then stands and laughs at you.  That same glitch does not replant, but moves on to another soon to harvest plot and repeats it's actions. When I asked if I could please finish my harvest of the plot the glitch said "bribe me".  It was almost as if the community garden was being strip-mined, there was no community interaction and no sharing of the harvest like the signs say. Over all a very unpleasant time.  

    Which would you chose?
    Posted 12 months ago by Originalauntie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, you are not prevented from having access to a private source of the other type of garden.

    That used to be true.  

    With the introduction of 'keys', it is no longer true.  If you have a key to someone's house, you can plant, water, fertilize and harvest in their private garden plots.  

    Some people get this access by renting the plots from a home owner.  
    Some people have friends who simply let them garden
    Some people get this access by bartering/swapping access to their garden for access to the other type of garden.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
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