Topic

Mining Etiquette.

I know a lot of others may feel differently but I wanted to start a discussion about this. I can't stand when someone comes and starts mining a rock that I'm still working on. Yes, we should share, but what about having the option not to? The rocks regenerate so it's not like people can't come back or find a other rock.

What I propose is, once a user has started mining a rock, if someone else tries to mine it, having a little bubble pop up for the original user asking if they'd like to share. Yes or no. Also, if a person wants to stop mining in the "middle" of a rock, they can have the option of "abandoning" it via a menu. Then it would be open to be mined by someone else. There should also be a timer that automatically makes a user abandon a rock, in case he or she is AFK in the middle of mining. Maybe 5 minutes?

What do you all think?

Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • If the quest you're talking about is the one where you have to mine 5 whole rocks in a day,  then I think the main thing with that quest is you  take rocks that a called "A XXX Rock" rather than "A bit of XXX rock" or what have you.  I don't believe you have to mine ALL of the rock,  indeed I am fairly sure I got a 1 of my 5 from  a piddily bit of rock left on the floor

    Posted 19 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • but you still can't both rinse at the same time, and it's kinda awkward.


    but you CAN mine at the same time without any problems? 
    Posted 19 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cerulean, I completely agree with you! And your suggestions are quite practical.
    Poaching someone's rock while they are actively mining it is very bad form indeed.
    Posted 19 months ago by serfer0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Every time someone has mined while I've been working on a rock they apologize.
    Posted 19 months ago by frenchphenom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • They apologize automatically? If they feel like they're imposing then why don't they ask first? I don't understand... it's like someone taking food from your plate and just saying "sorry," lol.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • so, I might be wrong about this, but I think it's actually *easier* to finish the mine X rocks quest if people have left nubs, because you can just finish mining away the nub and it counts toward the quest.
    Posted 19 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That might be true, depending on the size of the nub and which quest it is. I remember for the quest that requires you to have 17 (I think) of Beryl, Dullite and some other rock it took me a little longer to find Dullite, surprisingly, though I hit a few nubs, lol.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hey, wait, why don't the rocks just regenerate 15 minutes after someone hasn't worked on them? That way nubs can also grow back to their original form or something, haha.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Someone suggested the regenerate thing the other day, I forget who/where.

    Seems to me that formulating etiquette only made the problem it was trying to solve worse.  All of this is a very temporary issue for any particular player.  Mining IV is relatively quick to get and there are lots of rocks that can easily be soloed.  Those who aren't married to the idea that it has to be a sparkly rock or that they must do the mining quests ASAP will be fine most of the time.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well in the more recent times I've asked about etiquette I've been wondering about social consensus and rule, not in-game law. Do we at least all agree that it's rude to hop on another person's rock without asking?
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The opposite of courtesy is merely the absence of courtesy.  It isn't black or white, courtesy or rude.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That simply isn't true. I'm asking about a specific situation in a specific culture (Glitch culture). Just as everyone knows that in American culture, taking food from someone else's plate (unless you know them and have that kind of relationship) is rude.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is more like if someone is picking thru a salad bar, whether you should wait until they're done before making your own salad, not whether you can pick the croutons out of their bowl.  Picking off their plate would be more like picking through their inventory.  I'd be surprised if you agree with that cuz the sticking point is if it's their rock or everybody's rock.  Game mechanics say it is everybody's rock.  Some players say that socially, it's the first to get there while others disagree.  There is no absolute right nor wrong with that.  The weight tips towards rocks being everybody's if for no other reason than that's what's gonna cause the fewest social problems.

    Wherever social rules conflict with game mechanics, they will cause problems.  It's best to bend the social to the mechanics for the good of the game.  But since we're testing, it's also good to bend the mechanics.  I think the idea above where if you are able to start a pick, you're guaranteed to get something would be a good change.  You may not own the rock, but you own that one pick at it.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If we were to use your analogy, it would still be rude, because if someone is at a salad bar and they're grabbing croutons from the public bowl of croutons at the salad bar, and then you grab a separate pair of tongs because you can't wait for them to finish and start grabbing croutons out of that same bowl while they're still at it, well, that's rather rude.

    And, as I've been trying to say in my more recent posts, I'm asking about the social norms of the game while abandoning their imposition through game mechanics. I'd like to know the social standards and am no longer proposing any changes to the actual game mechanics.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • but you CAN mine at the same time without any problems? 


    No, you can't- at some point one of you will finish off the rock, and the other person finds themselves mining air. Which brings me to my answer to shhexycorin- sure, I can mine a stub, I don't care if it's a whole rock or not, but if someone mines it at the same time and finishes it off, the quest is spoiled for me and I have to start over. Plus I've lost energy mining for no reward.


    I'm a nub advocate (however dirty that may sound) :p I think it's totally fine to leave part of the rock unmined, because there is no immediate inconvenience to any other player (some like them full, some don't, the rocks regenerate) . I do, however, think it's rude to start mining a rock someone else is already working on, because the risk for spoiling a quest/ wasting someone's energy when you mine the rock out from under them is much, much higher. All clear?


    The second salad bar analogy is good. If I'm taking croutons from the bowl, it's rude not to wait your turn...what if you're quicker than me, have a bigger pair of tongs, and take all the croutons? It can be like that with the rocks. If you have a higher Mining skill, you can finish the rock off in a few seconds, while the person with the lower skill is still waiting for their progress bar to finish loading. That's a waste of their time and energy.


    Finding an unoccupied rock is so much simpler and risk-free.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cerulean
    I've been wondering about social consensus and rule,

    In this forum, only a few players (out of thousands) read and participate.  Even if every single person posting here came to a consensus, you'd still have thousands of players who would have no idea about any "rules" except what the game code allows and doesn't allow.

    As long as the game allows more than one person to mine a rock, there will be people who start mining a rock someone else is on.  No matter how many of us declare that it is "rude" to do so. 

    Even if 100% of the participants in this forum agreed with you, all you would get would be a sense of social superiority because you know the rules and you could declare that someone else was being rude. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Reading through this thread, I can see that most players think joining in mining is rude or unpleasant. (I find it intrusive..the "eating off my plate" does come to mind). No matter if you don't mind someone doing it to you, the knowledge that it does bother some should keep you from doing it. You don't go around deliberately annoying others, right? As long as there are other rocks to mine, its easily avoided. The only time I *ever* mined a rock someone else was working on, was when I did it to show someone what it felt like, after he just did it to me. Mining a rock someone else is working on just feels wrong to me. But I'll still resist that feeling, because this game (as is life) is full of people who feel differently than I do, and its not worth getting into a huff over.
    Posted 19 months ago by Phoebe Springback Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Phoebe

    It's not "most players".  It's 'most of the people who wanted to make a comment in this thread'. 

    And, frankly, no matter what your opinion about the issue, if the initial post declares that it is rude to do something, people who don't think it is rude are likely to avoid posting in that thread.  So what we have here is a thread for people who think it's rude to start mining if someone else is already mining.  The consensus in this thread is among a very very small number of people. 
    Posted 19 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I always pass on rocks that other people are working. And I'm wondering if the devs have programed that the first person always gets the gem...  LOL





    And I love it when others don't finish a rock, as I have gained tons of gems from unfinished rocks.



    Posted 19 months ago by MeherMan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Windborn. I agree, only a few of the total population post, but you still get a pretty good sample overall. Since there are both opinions stated here, its clearly not true that people who dont agree dont post.
    Posted 19 months ago by Phoebe Springback Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't mind nubs but I agree it's rude to mine a rock someone else is working on - it's basic courtesy.  

    When someone comes up and starts mining the rock I'm working on, I always assume they were raised in a barn and have no manners.
    Posted 19 months ago by Fleep Subscriber! | Permalink
  • we may soon have Glitch B.R. (before release) to mark the good old days.  i love Glitch for all its no rules free play but have definitely felt a change in the vibe with the last wave of new players.  much of the outside world’s aggressive insensitivity came along for the ride.  with so many more expected to rush the gates, how can we give them the understanding (and reinforce)  what Glitch is, rather than hope our Glitchness can hold up under the assault.

    maybe an introductory flash movie for the first time entering the world.  It could encourage community and personal good Glitch behavior.  or maybe two entry choices when signing back into glitch, one zen Glitch and the other no holds barred Glitch.  in the later, rock stealing, raunchy pig names, tree killing and trolling can be the norm.  gentler souls could seek out Glitch zen, fraught with turn taking, good manners and hoards of tree growers protected by god, with word filters, auto rock is being mined and maybe even halos.  hehe.  this could be one more subway stop and give anyone option to play either way or a little of both.

    Un-zen behavior in zen Glitch could result in Glitch rehab. and the player has to do good deeds before gaining xp or currants again.  the real world is what i came here to escape.  if i want aggressive game play, all out competition or adult themes, there are plenty out there to choose from.  Glitch is something different, something better.

    i  can get over the occasional mistake or the timed quest made you mine that same rock, what i can't get over is when an aggressive player changes the game play of a more peaceful player.  i won't pay a monthly subscriber fee for that, no matter how much I love my new ballet shoes.  
    Posted 19 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am completely unfussed about whether someone else chops into the rock I'm mining. It's an infinitely renewable resource, and even the timed quests are hardly a bother. Plus, you've got spare time while mining to say "Hey, don't bogart my rock, I'm questing" in local chat.

    However, I'll not double-dip on a rock someone else is using, on the offchance that they'll be annoyed. I don't need to be annoyed myself to comprehend that others may be.

    I really do think taking offence is inappropriate. Your glitch has no rights whatsoever to 'ownership' of a public rock.
    Posted 19 months ago by Spong Subscriber! | Permalink
  • see nearly identical discussion burning brightly over here: http://beta.glitch.com/forum/ideas/3612/
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Windborn: you are right.  Most of the people who feel the need to respond to this forum are the ones that agree with the original statement.  Those that don't know/care will not even take the time.

    People keep bringing up examples from real life and relating it to an online game.  Have you lost sense of reality so quickly?  Taking food from another persons plate or from a bowl of pasta while someone else is you are interfering with something much more essential to life: food.  Humans cannot live without food, it is quite a bit more serious to mess with someones food then it is to mess with a fake rock, that exists only online, and pops back up every 15 minutes or so.

    @Cerulean: I am not suggesting that YOU are making a big deal out of this, I am talking about the people who are saying that they curse at the computer and they get sooo angry that someone has taken their rock.  Get over it, its a game.

    I don't think there are any social etiquette in this situation.  It's nice to be considerate of others, but when 15 people are looking for a sparkly rock and theres only a few around, you better believe I'm gonna jump on the one that someone else is mining if I see it.  I'm not gonna spend 20 minutes of my time walking around to find another simply because someone else was there first.  Especially because the people who are typically mining aren't doing it for quests, they are high levels mining for money and they spend a good portion of their game time mining away at the same rocks either for money or favor.  You only have to complete a quest once, and the odds that you are ruining a quest for someone is pretty low compared to the odds that you are just taking a piece of rock that (according to many of you "belongs") to someone that has been standing there for hours mining and has a crapload of money and favor 
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to the sentiment of nanookie's post :P
    Posted 19 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sorry if that sounded rude (my comment above).  I would appreciate a zen game that Betty is describing, but I feel like the people who have a problem with mining others rocks are the people that already have enough in the game to survive on.  I'm a poor Glitch and everyone comments how much money they have from mining and I should start doing it, and yet the get very angry when their rock gets mined from them?  

    People here are suggesting that the community aspect of the game is respecting that another person is mining a rock, but I believe in the true sense of community and caring about other glitches SHARING a rock is the right thing to do.  I think that people are thinking about this whole situation backwards.  Instead of getting upset that people are mining your rock, I'm upset that so many of you are unwilling to share an unlimited resource with people who could possibly need it more than you do.
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't think we'll ever agree on the double mining - (I just leave and find a new rock if someone starts in on mine, to make a point, but I'm at a high enough level that I don't really need the ore to begin with.)

    However, I do think it would be a good idea to have rocks regenerate fully at their appointed time whether there's a nub left or not.
    Posted 19 months ago by Helcat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Laurali I am a poor Glitch too!  I always have more than enough for my Glitchy needs, but I look like a pauper next to the inveterate miners.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have gone through a progression of attitudes on this subject. At the beginning it used to annoy the hell out of me if someone started mining a rock I was working on. And I would just leave. Then I started staying, but felt this ooky competitive thing to get as much of that damn rock as I could. Now, since I am a higher level player and there is no shortage of rocks, not even the highly sought after sparkly, I really don't mind. None the less I NEVER mine a rock someone else is working on or even standing by unless I know they have been AFK for more than 5 or 10 minutes. Basically being here is all about the fun and getting all hung up and pissed off about such things just isn't worth it and ruins the game as much for myself as others.
    Posted 19 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • zzzzzing @laurali  Thanks for redirecting this. I was feeling like something was amiss--the salad bar analogy was getting to me. If someone is there before me and there are 4 tomatoes left, should they quick take those 4 because they were there first? Or maybe take 2 and move on? Or make room for me in case I want tomatoes, too?  I agree that the mores of cooperation and sharing are better than imperialistically saying I got here first and claiming all for Her Majesty :P
    Posted 19 months ago by Mac Rapalicious Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "If we were to use your analogy, it would still be rude, because if someone is at a salad bar and they're grabbing croutons from the public bowl of croutons at the salad bar, and then you grab a separate pair of tongs because you can't wait for them to finish and start grabbing croutons out of that same bowl while they're still at it, well, that's rather rude."

    My analogy was sharing a salad bar.  I imperfectly molded yours into sharing a salad bowl and I agree that that's rude.  The difference is that I say the rock belongs to nobody which makes it a salad bar.  You say first comer gets dibs which makes it a bowl.  Game mechanics plus a portion of the testers say it's a salad bar.  A portion of the players say it's a bowl.  I don't think one side can convince the other to change their mind since it's a starting assumption, but it is clear that the bowl crowd would be the source of drama.  Sure, you can hold it against the player and block them or whatnot, but it's still a part of the game.  If I cuss out someone for jumping on a rock that I'm mining, I'm gonna be the one in trouble.

    Formulating etiquette is an attempt to change Glitch into something it isn't, or at least it has ended up that way.  Rocks are built to be shared.  Any claims that they aren't will lead to in-game fights which is what we're trying to avoid.  The solution isn't to develop etiquette, but to change game mechanics and/or play the game for what it is, not for what it isn't.  I don't like sharing rocks, but I do because that is Glitch.  I get... I don't know if annoyed is the right word, but it's directed at the situation, not my fellow player.  If there was a hog button, I would SO click it.  There will never be one which has me adjust how I play the game.  I save mining quests until they're easy.  If I'm distracted and I see someone coming, I wail on that rock.  If nobody is around, I'll take a chance on gems falling on the ground...
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just think etiquette will naturally come out of the situation IF the mechanics of mining are easily understood by the players.  The point of etiquette is not to create rules that holster the behavior of people, but to create options that help make people feel at ease in confusing situations.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe we could look at the original post.  There seem to be several different threads people have picked up on in the discussion.

    It makes some people uneasy or disturbed if someone comes up and simply stars mining the same rock.  This may be because it is seen as impolite or it may be seen as  'muscling in' on a private resource, or it may be that the first person sees it as aggressive or intrusive.  Any of these are personal reactions, and are, therefore, valid responses IMV.  No-one has to justify the way they feel about others' behaviour in that sense.

    Other people see rocks as a public resource to which anyone is entitled to help themselves, if someone is already mining a rock, well there is plenty to go round and the rock will regenerate when exhausted.  This too is a personal response and also, for that reason, perfectly valid IMV

    Perhaps we could make more use of the communication facilities and 'speak' to other players more in these circumstances, as some have suggested.  It is not something I have experienced but if I did, I woudl say 'Hi' to the other player and go on from there.  However, sometimes people are not aware that they are being spoken to, or they choose not to respond.  Then I would ignore them and possibly walk away if I felt like it.

    I don't find it helpful when people say 'It is only a game!'  It may be a game, but I am a real person playing it, along with other real people.  I understand that others take it more or less seriously than I do, perhaps we could all respect others' attitudes?

    How our characters behave in the game is surely a reflection of our own characters in some way so there will always be conflicts as in the real world. 

    I agree with Cerulean that I would be uneasy if someone came up and silently started to mine the same rock.  It seems unfriendly and greedy to me.  That is a personal response, so I would not expect it to be universal, and I don't see that there needs to be any restriction on sharing rocks or any other public resource.  I am against too much regulation personally.
    Posted 19 months ago by Cassandria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Taking a rock for yourself can also be seen as unfriendly and greedy.  Get used to sharing now, cuz that's the way it's gonna be when thousands of players are running around the imagination.  I posted one fruitful part of this thread to Ideas.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Tingly: Completely agree.  It is hypocritical to call others selfish or greedy if they mine off "your" rock, when you are being selfish and greedy for not sharing "your" rock.  I don't think anything should be changed, when you start changing all these little parts of the game you are complicating something that is very simple.  Please lighten up, don't get so frustrated when someone mines a rock you were working on because it will only get worse as more players are introduced.  

    We can argue manners til we are blue in the face: I still think its worse manners to react in a negative manner when someone mines a public rock, while others think it is rude to intrude on their mining.  Either way, it is a part of the game and just because a few people hold certain standards does not mean the rest of the players will follow them, so its probably something those of you who don't like it should learn to accept.
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not to beat the salad bar analogy to death, but, Tingly, even if the bar is a bar and not a bowl, you still don't go grabbing at the same portion of food while someone else is helping themselves to it, do you? It's remarkably like the rocks, actually- if they leave some, it's your turn, if they wanted all of the tomatoes from that particular bowl, then you just have to wait a bit until someone comes by with a refill. It's this balance between first come, first serve, and sharing, although that's where it falls apart because tomatoes are finite and servers are probably slower than rocks.

    *...the things I type....*

    Aaaaanyway. No, what I really want to point out, again (because I feel like it's been understated) is that when two people mine the same rock, they are competing for the same finite instance of an infinite resource. And where it gets nasty is when one person has Mining I and the other has Mining V. The person with Mining I might get...what, one swing at the rock? And they're not even guaranteed to get a piece, if the other person is so much faster. How about someone who's clever do the math on that one- I know I've sometimes come away from rocks with zero gain when someone else was mining with me.

    Honestly, I won't cry if someone mines my rock, or even if they spoil my quest (at this stage of the game it's easy enough to start over, though who knows what will happen after beta?) but with all the disadvantages of 'sharing' I'm baffled that people would rather compete for the same rock than each find their own. The only advantage is not having to look for a few seconds longer.  
    Posted 19 months ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really don't know how long this can continue to be an issue, if the mining counter Tingly mentions in his ideas thread can get implemented (or some version of it) or failing that, plenty of rocks are made available so that long lines for sparkly don't start popping up.

    I would still like there to be some way for the game to let the player know how mining a rock works in Glitch.

    The situation that bothers me much more that this is what to do if you drop an item, or inadvertently don't pack it because your pack is full--who can lay claim to it?  A situation like this was mentioned in this thread or another, in which a gem and some rocks were "dropped" by player A due to a full pack, and retrieved by player b.  Player a pursued player b and told him/her the items were his/hers and the response was to offer to sell player a his stuff back.   

    This has happened to me, but my player b's response was, "Oh that was yours? Here you go," which was definitely more Glitch-affirming than,  "Oh that was yours? And you want it back?  How much is is worth to you?"  So maybe it's not the picking up of them item that bugs me so much as the end-run extortion attempt.  I would almost rather player b's response had been "Keep better track of your bags next time."  

    It also made me grateful that Glitches don't have to carry items that are integral to their actual survival, like internal organs that can fall out anytime.  "Oh is this your kidney? And you want it back?  Let me just check my phone for the going rate...I have this awesome new app..."
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I never payed much attention to another glitch coming up and mining the rock i was working on, but it's been happening more and more lately.  What really galls me is when there is a whole rock of the same type right next to "mine" and another player mines mine rather than the rock right next to it.  I mine primarily so I can sell rock and gems to the Tool Vendor and go and buy food .  If I have a lot of food I'll keep the gems to donate to the giants.
    Posted 19 months ago by Marla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I shoulda called the other thread something besides 'mining counter.'  Sounds like you walk up to a counter and mine.  [I changed it, much better descriptive title]

    I see the flaw in my analogy. Then pretend it's a salad bar where the proprietor says for everyone to get what they can and he'll restock once the salad bar is empty.  I know a Pizza Hut that did similar for an all-you-can-eat pizza deal.  Everyone dove on each pizza as it was served, insta-gone.  If you didn't get a slice, tough darts.  The manager set the etiquette rules that you gotta go for the slices.  Instead of the customers setting up further guidelines, they went for the slices.
    Posted 19 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Cefeida: I can understand what you are talking about with different mining levels.  I only have Mining II and multiple times I have lost a rock because someone with a higher level came up and mined the rock before I could finish mine, even though I was mining first.  The only thing that bothers me about this is that I lost energy.  If I wanted to mine faster, I would invest in the mining skills.  But it's not the most important to me, and so if I lose the rock no big deal.  Maybe they could just make it so that if you don't get anything from your mining, then you don't lose any energy?  That way, even if someone with a higher mining level takes the rock from you there is no loss.
    Posted 19 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For those interested, here's a link to a Mining Etiquette poll vote : http://glitchaddict.com/2011/05/30/mining-etiquette-vote/ - it will be interesting to see the results!
    Posted 19 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Morticia Addams, that site is bee-yoo-tee-ful, and it even has the delivery frog! It looks like candy.
    Posted 19 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL thanks a lot Nanookie, glad you like it!
    Posted 19 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Somehow I totally missed this thread earlier. 
    I had no idea people get upset when others start mining a rock they are mining... no one has ever said anything to me when I've done that. I probably wouldn't keep on mining until the rock is gone if someone else was also mining that rock. I've had times when others start mining with me - it's never bothered me... I've never even thought twice about it. *shrug*
    Rocks are just laying around, common as... well, rock. I like to take a swipe or two at a rock as I'm going along. I don't always finish the rock because I don't always have that much energy. Just like sometimes I water or harvest trees... and sometimes I don't.
    Posted 19 months ago by Zany Serendipity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Similar to Nanookie, I will point out that this issue has been discussed on these forums for about as long as there's been mining, and I'll bet there are at least 10 threads on the topic.

    As long as there aren't enough rocks for the interested miners, people have to get used to the possibility of sharing. Whether there are enough rocks has to do with how many players are in game at the moment relative to how many locations there are with rocks, and also the current tweaking of the xp, energy use, yields, bonuses, etc., for the various skills, and how attractive mining is at the moment. For example, there have been times when lots of new players were added in while no new mining sites were added in and the rocks became particularly scarce.

    People also have to realize that the game culture shifts as new players join. And also that there will always be players who see the world differently than you do.

    There are many tensions in Glitch, including the resource of the rocks and the tend-dig-tree plot dynamics. There is no one right way to use a resource.
    Posted 19 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • 94 responses, and yes I read them all. I've held off on responding because this is ohhhh the 8th time I've seen this exact ugly agrument? Anyhow, please allow me in my own way to set a few things straight...

    1) The rocks do not regenerate when they are partially mined. 
    They will only re-spawn at their full 50 units once they are fully mined, and disappear from the screen.
    2) Mining another persons rock does *not* effect their chances of getting a special bonus - that mechanic is skill based, not rock based. There are not a certain number of gems per rock... there is a % chance each time you mine based off of your level of mining.

    So - those are the rules... the only rules. The rest boils down to strategy (you call it etiquette because it's 'social' but truthfully what people are arguing is the variety of ways to play - defined as strategy).

    I *think* some of the (!) urgency/excitement over the mining issue has suddenly surfaced for three reasons...
    1) someone had an unpleasant incident and it sparked a query
    2) new areas of the mines were opened last test bringing the thoughts back to the forefront
    3) there is a bug causing rocks to spawn with partially mined images (making people think the rock has been mined when it hasn't, since the rock contains a full 50)

    Now, for my opinion.To respond to OP - I don't like the idea of making things 'busy' when in use (save for the machines which is a different monster/argument all together). We had a problem with lock-out and dirt patches a couple of tests ago (so the idea *has* been tested and it was a bit of a disaster). In the middle of the night, we were suddenly getting messages 'someone is already working' even though there was no one in sight. It was a bug that got fixed, but it highlighted a potentially serious flaw in the system. If someone stopped the action, or disconnected before it completed - the patch was locked out to everyone until a developer could be found to de-bug it... being that the bug happened at something like 3am in the US, it was a long, long wait for the people wanting to dig/plant. A time-out mechanism would also need built, and then the whole thing gets confusing (and we'll start arguing over how to decide who gets 'next').

    As for the strategy/etiquette debate - the act of mining is a strategic one in and of itself. Somehow people have the perception mining is the end-all, be-all way to get ahead in the game. It is one way, but not the only way. I myself spend very little time in the mines or mining. Personally, I do just fine hitting my daily donation max on several shrines a day with just the stuff I get from wandering around the world - and the XP/energy has a higher return from the Animal Kinship skills, I have more currants than common sense, so why exactly should I bother with heading into the mines? Yes, en and clare are kicking my butt when it comes to lightning fast progress... but I'm certainly trucking along at a fast enough pace.

    So how do I handle it when someone decides to 'help'? First rock, I say something simple... 'you could have asked' and I move to the next one. Second rock, I say something along the lines of 'that's rude' and I mine the shit out of the rock until it goes *poof* on them mid-swing. Might take me two rocks to do it, it's a fantastic trick of the timing - but at this point it's a pretty safe bet I'm as fast or faster than the other guy. I have the advantage, since I know how many I'd already taken out and can guess at their yield from there. It's also is gonna bug you more than it bugs me, 8 of 2000 energy is no biggie... 12 of 250 is.

    No, I don't think sharing a rock is rude... I think not asking is rude. If given the opportunity to find out why your behavior is annoying, and you're just gonna be a turd about it, I'll *show you* why it's annoying. But I'm not gonna get mad about  4-12 missing bits of whatever.

    The 'mine-mine-mine-grabby-grabby' behavior is all over both sides of this entire thread... one side feels the rock is 'theirs' and the other side feels the rocks are for everyone, and therefore 'theirs'. It's a great example of the divided community arguing the same side of a point, with both sides feeling entitled. I don't think a poll, no matter how pretty, is going to do anything more than drive a bigger wedge into the community by giving both sides a stick to whack each other over the head with.... especially since such a poll will serve no purpose in changing the functional mechanics -aka the rules- of the game.

    (Editing to add: I think the concept of re-generating partially mined rocks is a bad one too - it will lead to even more 'camping' than we already have. Too easy to mine it down to that last swing then sit there and wait for it to regrow so you can mine it again. The combined effect of a lock-out and re-generating rocks would be utterly devastating. The mechanics are just fine IMO - it's the players who need to adjust to playing the game within the framework of *this* game.)
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For my money, expecting people to ask permission still implies a sense of ownership of that rock.
    Posted 19 months ago by clare Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Travinara, we are all entitled to express our opinions, vent, whine and otherwise express ourselves over game issues - including the subject of 'Mining Etiquette' (I disagree that it is a form of strategy), that's one of the purposes of forums such as this. As far as the poll goes, it's just an interesting visual representation of peoples views, you can choose to vote - or not, either way it was never created with the belief that it would change anything...just as your post won't change anything and yet it was still created. I think the members here are adult enough to think for themselves and vote (if they so choose) without feeling the effects of a 'bigger wedge' in the community. Life goes on, there will be another issue to discuss tomorrow I'm sure.
    Posted 19 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Morticia - I neither asked nor implied you should alter or amend your poll in any way. I gave my opinion as to how it will inevitably be used in future arguments.

    (Editing - yeah clare, expecting someone to ask does imply a sense of ownership. It's the repeating an action after knowing it's upsetting that miffs me more than anything.)
    Posted 19 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink