Topic

Another Mood Looser cards and Energy Tank question

Hi,

I am trying to get around all this Tank capping/bonus/malus/math thing in order to see whether to expand my Energy Tank or not (I am at 900 right now) - and I just learned about the Mood Loser cards. Problem is: nobody is actually saying how the cards work!

So my questions are:

* What is the actual effect of the cards (I mean, number-wise)?
* Do I have to go through the "too much energy" crisis before seeing the cards, or are they appearing before things get too bad?
* How much do the cards cost?

Short version: is it better to stay at around 1000 Energy Max and not to bother about all that stuff, or to go the Tank+Cards route?

Posted 6 months ago by Ayzad Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • Here is how it works:

    Above 80% mood you lose 1.5% of your maximum mood per minute (you lose less when your mood is lower).  So at 1000 tank size that would be 15.  This now caps out at 30 when you get to a tank size of 2000, so going over 2000 doesn't increase mood loss anymore.

    The cards reduce this by one-sixth per card, so the first card would reduce the 15 mood lost to 13 or the 30 mood lost to 25.  The second card it would be 10 at 1000 or 20 at 2000.  With the third card it would be 8 at 1000 or 15 at 2000.

    The cards cost 7500, 15000 and 35000 respectively.

    You will only see the cards if you have a tank of a certain size but I don't know what those sizes are, so it's possible with a 1000 tank you'll never get the third card (or even the second one for all I know).

    At this point mood gets harder to manage up to 2000 tank size and then gets easier after that (you lose the same amount but it will take much longer for that loss to mean you are getting less imagination).

    I think 1000 is a small tank for other reasons.  There are a lot of different factors that mean you could be getting a lot of benefit from a larger tank (no-no powder, overfilling with icons, get out of hell free cards, maximum food eaten per day, maximum meditation gains per day).  I did a lot of (partly outdated) analysis here: http://mathemaglitch.blogspot.ca/p/maximum-energy.html

    If you teleport a ton and play for hours when you play then energy might be a detriment to you, but I think that's a very small segment of the population at this point.
    Posted 6 months ago by Humbabella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Humbabella, Stoot made an official statement about when you start seeing, uh, mood reduction reduction cards.

    www.glitch.com/forum/genera...
    Posted 6 months ago by Pale Queen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ayzad, you should be offered only the first Mood Loser card, since your tank size doesn't reach the threshold for the 2nd or 3rd.  It will appear automatically (but randomly) in your deck.

    Humbabella, here's stoot's post

    • Lowered the tank size threshold for the appearance of the upgrade cards to 600, 1200 and 2000 (from 1k, 2k & 3k).
    • Increased the frequency of those upgrades being offered (once the pre-requisite tank size is met)
    • Made it so that the cost of energy tank upgrades continues to scale past 3000 tank size (the price previously stayed constant regardless of how many you bought)
    • Changed the formula for mood loss so that, regardless of your mood tank size, the maximum base value for the periodic mood is calculated as if you had a tank of 2000 (so, once you get to 2000, the mood loss is capped regardless of how large the tanks ultimately get)

    I don't think this addresses the more fundamental issues people were raising here (is mood a worthwhile mechanic in the first place? should the bonuses/mood percentage be re characterized to be "overcharged" at 120%?, should mood loss occur when you are doing nothing? etc.) but … these changes were much easier to make and they will make a difference :)

    There are some other changes coming up in the next few weeks which will make a difference here as well, so we'll see how it all pans out.
    Posted 6 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks, everyone!
    Posted 6 months ago by Ayzad Subscriber! | Permalink
  • so does that mean that an optimal energy tank size might be 2100 ?? cause then you can get all the mood loser cards ?
    Posted 6 months ago by serenitycat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You only need an energy tank of 2000 to get the last mood loser card, serenitycat.
    Posted 6 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • An optimal energy tank (mood-wise) would be as large as you're able to get, since the higher your tank, the less impact periodic mood loss has on your mood.
    Posted 6 months ago by Negata Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Periodic mood loss is a percentage of your tank size.  A 10% loss that takes you below 90% of your total tank is going to cause you to get less iMG per action.  

    "Refills" are on a per-point basis.  So, a butterfly milk that gives you 10 points of mood will take care of a 10% loss when you have a tank size of 100.  When you get to tank size 1000, that same butterfly milk will only take care of a 1% loss, and you will need 10 times as many milks as you did previously in order to make up for that 10% loss.  

    An optimal tank is the one that lets you balance your playing style with the ever-increasing amounts of milk that you need to keep your mood up.  For many people having a large tank is NOT optimal.  

    Please see Humbabella's excellent blog post about the trade-offs.  
    Posted 6 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WindBorn, they changed some things and now mood loss caps at 30 per minute, which is 15 per minute with all three upgrades.

    So if you have 2000 mood you will go under maximum in 13 minutes.  With a tank of, say, 9000, you don't have to worry about mood for an hour.  In the end you'll still need to generate 15 mood minute to stay afloat, but the bigger tank does help (unless you poison trees).
    Posted 6 months ago by Humbabella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah, yes.  I forgot about the cap.   
    Posted 6 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've totally updated my energy buying guide:  http://mathemaglitch.blogspot.ca/p/maximum-energy.html

    It deals with the mood changes now (as well as some other improvements).
    Posted 6 months ago by Humbabella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So, as someone with a 2000 energy tank, I wonder if this is a temporary stop-gap to keep the large tank crowd from committing mass suicide, or if it's "the way things will be", because now it looks like I should expand my tank size and take advantage of the mood cap. 
    Posted 6 months ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well now that I know there's a cap (hopefully permanent), I feel pretty good about increasing my tank higher than 2,000.
    Posted 6 months ago by dm Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I doubt this is a "permanent" change, but there will be some kind of overhaul to the entire mood system in the future that will probably leave it somewhat unrecognizable and make this change obsolete.  At any rate, I think it clearly signals that the developers recognized that the system as it was just after img was released was not really working, and I doubt we have to worry that a system that is similarly punishing to large energy tanks will be implemented in the future (or at least I think we can be confident that if such a system is implemented we can point that out and have our concerns addressed).
    Posted 6 months ago by Humbabella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I, for one, have thrown caution to the wins and am brazenly increasing my energy tank at every turn now. Mood management has—thankfully—become mostly a non-issue.

    I agree with Humbabella that a major overhaul/cashiering of the mood mechanic is warrented; on a personal level, and in the meantime, I am grateful that it's ceased to be a constant, nagging aggravation.
    Posted 6 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Constant, nagging aggravation" is exactly what it was. It's much, much better now. Thank you Tiny Speck!
    Posted 6 months ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink