Topic

Lock plots that have been guano'd to the player who has guano'd them please

In the community gardens... sometimes I plant just to plant for the xp and for others to take, but sometimes I use guano because I want to take the crop I've planted.  In that case it should lock the crop to the player.  I for the first time just now had a player come, initiate a trade with me while I was waiting for a guano'd plot that was almost done, and in the time it took me to close the trade window the user had stolen my crops I was waiting for.  When I asked for it back nicely the user was really rude and just said I should have been quicker and not everyone's rich.  =(

I think if users spend the extra time and effort to guano their plots they should be able to be the ones to reap their reward, and if they want to give away their crops thats fine but it's not fair for others to specifically target those with guano'd plots (that are noticeable by their different appearance btw, for those who don't know) and snatch them up by starting a trade and using that to get in the way of the user who's waiting's window/ view of their plot.  That's a really mean thing to do.

=(

Anyways I think the guano locking would be a fair compromise between sides of the community garden issue, that is players don't "own" what's there and they're free to harvest anything anytime vs. players who plant should be the ones to harvest.  Well maybe the guano can be the answer and in any case that's the quicker way so it would also free up more plots more quickly if players are doing that more often.

.... :: grumbles ::... it wasn't even herbs gessh... 

Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • But then somebody could just go and guano an unguanoed plant that they didn't plant.
    Posted 12 months ago by Palindrome Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well maybe they could only allow guano'ing of plants where the plant-er (person who planted obviously not the planter box thingy it's in) is absent?  Like if a person plants and then leaves the region for awhile and someone else comes along the plots can't be locked to them unless they guano it and stick around?  Or if they guano it and wander off same thing, it wouldn't be locked to them... like when inventory items are dropped because your bags are full, if you move away it's not locked to you... something like that could work don't you think?
    Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The problem is  that, at the moment,  the person who planted is not intended by TS to be the 'owner' of what is planted, the person using guano is not intended as the owner of the plant either. No one is intended to be the owner.

    Either things stay as they are and community gardens are for the community to plant, and harvest, as they please and Glitchen have to accept that or TS turn their community garden policy on its head and a concept of ownership and belonging is built into planting in them.

    The balance  between crops and herbs was heavily biased to crops before. New changes have seriously screwed this the other way. This has caused all the unpleasantness we have experienced recently.

    Miso, I know you had an unpleasant experience in a community crop garden, but that is unusual. It  would be nice if we could keep them all, crop and herb,  as true community gardens, and planters don't consider the plot they planted as 'theirs'. Everyone harvesting and planting as they pass through, and  perhaps giving a boost to those without homes yet. As it was before, before this mad race for herbs.

    But a change is needed to truly balance crops and herbs, within housing. I hope this will happen, and soon, when the the 'new housing' come to fruition
    Posted 12 months ago by IrenicRhonda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • make it part of the croppery and herbalism skillsets, dont involve guano because guano can be fun to share. make it so you can only lock a certain amount of plants, say 3-6, and present the option after a seed was planted (not sure if set on default would be a good idea, possibly)
    Posted 12 months ago by VirXXIII Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This should probably go in one of those "ohey, I didn't realize you could do THAT!" threads, but if you've got a big enough screen, you can move the popup windows around so you can see what's going on in the world behind 'em. Works for trade, crafting, street projects, you name it. Not sure if this would have helped your icky situation, miso, but maybe...?
    Posted 12 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's an interesting idea too VirXXIII.  Also how do you pronounce your name? >_>

    Jennyany I know you can move the popups around however unfortunately I have a tiny screen and lots of lag so it would not have helped.  Thank you tho for the info and maybe it will help someone else in the future. <3

    Thank you for your input Irenic!
    Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • But if you lock plants that have been fertilized to the one who did it, how about the ones who planted the seeds?  Watered?

    I fertilized an entire community garden to empty out a slot. Should I get the harvest?
    Posted 12 months ago by Tsu Dho Nimh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • imo, no tsu, the one who plants the seed should have the lock option only for obvious reasons, such as helping others plots without taking their harvest. If someone doesnt lock their plot, then they most likely intend to share it, in which case noone else could lock it

    and to Miso, technically vir is pronounced somewhat like wir/were in its intended meaning, which is basically latin for man, courageous/heroic man, but ive always pronounced it myself as how it looks, which has meanings that i dont intend, such as football and places and stuff. Chose it because it was simple and started with a V, which my real name does. the XXIII is roman numeral for 23 which is my lucky number, i might change my name here soon and take that out, except there is already an abandoned Vir out there.
    Posted 12 months ago by VirXXIII Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What if, hypothetically, I guano some plants and then forget to harvest them.

    There they sit, forever locked and un-harvestable because I have not returned, thereby making the plots unusable by anyone else.
    Posted 12 months ago by Xev Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Add a timer Xev :P None of the plants take longer than... Nine hours? Make it 12-24 or so and call it a wrap :P
    Posted 12 months ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What if, hypothetically, I guano some plants and then forget to harvest them.

    30 minute rule like with items unless you walk away?  I mean, that would limit you to a set box area, but eh.
    Posted 12 months ago by Rodger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • as i just mentioned in the other thread concerning this, a timer would work great. It could be possible to make the timer amount small, like 10 minutes, and anyone who tries to pick the locked plant would just be picking it for you, then mail frog would send it.

    This wouldnt be the best idea, but i dont think it would be fair to have the plants locked for too long, sense others would want to use the gardens as well. Maybe have plots count down how long it takes for them to harvest, so people could plan accordingly, then the 10 minute lock timer would be relevant and after ten minutes it opens up for others.

    That or a potion that auto-harvests for you, and mail frog sends it. there is so many ideas we could run through, devs ARE looking too, what could we all imagine that would make this work?
    Posted 12 months ago by VirXXIII Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I liked the plant stakes idea someone proposed a while back. Like map teleports, you get a set amount per game day (six?) and if unused, you don't get to keep accumulating plant stakes ad infinitum. 

    You get to stick your stakes into your crop or herb plots and they are then "yours" to harvest. You can only use X many stakes per game day (or IRL day). You can only stake a particular plot patch once per game day (or IRL day). If you fail to return before your plant stakes expire (30 real minutes after the plant is ready for harvesting?), too bad. No camping!
    Posted 12 months ago by ✰ Lorelei ✰ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's a great idea too Lorelei, I hadn't seen this idea but it's a great one.  :: nods :: Plant Stakes, I like this a lot.

    Though I'd like it if I could change my mind and remove a stake if I don't want it there later or if I know I'll be logging off earlier than planned, that way it won't be a hassle to anyone who comes after and wants to pick my harvest soon as it's done so they can replant.  Or maybe they expire quicker if you're offline for 5+ minutes?  So they could expire 30 minutes after the plot is done growing if you're online but 5 minutes or even less if you're offline....?
    Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Another concept that was thrown in the air was a herb/crop party pack. I REALLY like the idea of that :D
    Posted 12 months ago by VirXXIII Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The idea that you could turn a public, community park or garden into a private secure garden for any length of time is silly.

    TS already makes it possible to grow herbs in a private, secure spot.  Why should they allow us to turn every single herb plot in the game into a private secure spot?  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @WindBorn: Personally, I don't use the community gardens at all, herb OR crop, so maybe my mention of someone else's previous suggestion doesn't fit in with the "rules." All I know is that it would not bother me one way or another if someone wanted to use plant stakes, and it would thwart a lot of the current griefing behavior.
    Posted 12 months ago by ✰ Lorelei ✰ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I like the idea of, plant a seed, guano it twice, water if needed. The resulting crop.herb is bounded to you (only if you did all the steps), and if harvested by someone else, it is mailed to the oringinal planter. But only if you guano'd it twice after the plant (the clearing/waterinf is optional because something it is not needed).

    If the harvester was not the original planter, then they now have the option of clearing, watering,planting,and double guano'ing the empty plot.

    Still leaves what to do about the person who plants and walks away. Perhaps if should be that harvest is bounded to whoever guanos the twice, or even the second time. That give incentive to complete the set of actions (plant, guano twice) to e sure you get the result.
    Posted 12 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • These are all good suggestions Tibbi, I hope the devs are listening and thinking seriously about all of this thread and the other conversations around the forums about this topic.

    -_-
    Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Perhaps you are listening and thinking seriously about the response the devs have already given to the threads about this topic: 

    They put up signs that say the gardens are intended for everyone, not just the people who feel like planting gives them private ownership of the harvest.
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is an easy solution:

    Step 1:  User plants a seed, marking that plot as planted by them, but not owned.
    Step 2:  They guano the plot twice, marking it as owned, provided they do not leave the street.
    Step 3:  They are only allowed to do this to 5 plots max.

    Problems solved.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nope, private ownership of public plots is not a solution.  Giving a player a way to have exclusive access to a plot, no matter what "if" is added to the description, is not a solution for public plots.  

    If you want a private plot you can own it via buying a house, or by making an agreement with someone who already owns such a house.
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Kirnan I agree.  =)
    Windborn if you don't agree with this why are you still here arguing?  All these other people think my idea is a good one and agree community gardens need work.  Why not bow out and stop trying to get us all to see your way and instead try to understand where *we* are coming from?
    Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I understand where you are coming from:

    You want to take a public resource and make it private (only for a little while, and only a few plots at a time, and only for the lucky few who can grab a plot).  

    I want to take a public resource and keep it public, for everyone, all the time.  

    If your idea is so great, it will be able to withstand a little criticism.  If however, it is simply a greedy grab for plots, making what the devs have stated is available for anyone to harvest, and turning it into a private, solo-play resource, then perhaps you can explain why you need every herb plot in the game to be under sole control, instead of having some public and some private plots?  

    Why can we not have a few plots that are truly public?  If I were so inclined, I could run the numbers that show how small a percentage of the herb plots in the game are public, and what a large percentage are already under private control.  But that would make you look even greedier.  

    If TS restricted posts to only the people who agreed with the original idea, then they'd never know whether anyone was opposed.  If you post an idea, then you should expect people to explain a different perspective if the original idea turns the game away from sharing, community, and public property into hoarding, individual, private property.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, I expect lots of people are opposed to any privatization, however, myself, I can not imagine how else one can deter thieves from coming in and harvesting herbs people spent guano on.  Do you have some sort of idea, Windborn?
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, use a space that is already designated as private.

    Either get a bog house, or share plots with someone who has a bog house.  

    But don't try to make what the devs have very clearly designated as "public" spaces something that an individual has control over.  First they put up the signs in response to the complaints and then they created a quest where you are rewarded for planting herbs in a community garden.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • See, you made it personal, which is silly. I use a bog house, so personally, I have no use for the community gardens.  However, not everyone has that liberty, although given custom housing in the future, the point is moot.  As it stands, though, people should have some protection versus thieves.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Everyone has that liberty.  It's just that they don't choose to exercise the liberty they have.

    Right this minute, I can buy a bog house and start growing herbs.  If I were lower level and had fewer currants, people would give me the money I needed to do that.  (see the Free Bog House thread in General).

    The people who want to have secure plots can have them.  The people who choose not to buy them can't have it both ways:  they don't want a bog house so they don't get secure plots unless they share with another house owner.  If there are elements of the game that are more important to them than having a secure herb plot, fine.  That's their choice to make.  

    But you can't say: secure plots aren't important enough for me to buy a bog house and then ask the devs to give you a secure plot anyway.  Maybe it is the animal pens, or the tree plots or the decor or solo play that is more important to them, but nonetheless, something else in the game is more important.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, as I said before, this shall all be moot when custom housing comes around.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Windborn: You said everything I didn't have the patience to say. 

    Public plots are public. Assigning ownership to them through arbitrary means, and especially something as arbitrary as guano, is not a solution to this perceived problem. 
    Posted 12 months ago by Xev Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well if there is to be no deterrence of thieves, I doubt this will ever get fixed.  Although again, herb gardens will be empty in a month or two.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Kirnan, people who take herbs and produce from community gardens are not thieves.

    TS has said anyone can harvest.  There is no way to be a thief if the rules say it is ok for anyone to harvest.  Cause you aren't stealing from anyone.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eh, and then logic committed suicide.  Well, I am out of this.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In this game, that is not thievery.  In this game, if you want a private plot you have to use a private house.  In this game, public gardens are for anyone.  In this game, planting in a public plot doesn't give you any 'ownership' of what you planted.

    In this game using what is planted in the public gardens is not thievery.  The public gardens are for everyone to contribute to and to take from.  Public gardens are for the public.
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The way the game mechanics work and the signs do not change the fact that it takes effort to get seeds, plant them, water them, guano them, and wait for them to grow.  So the people who then run by at the last minute, grab the harvest from under the nose of the person waiting for them, laugh at them, and try to use any kind of excuse for their behavior, even if they are not defined as thieves, are definitely defined as a$$holes.  In RL if I don't leave my bag behind at a table in a restaurant, I will be surprised if I come back and find it there.  But if it slides off my shoulder and falls to the ground, it does not suddenly become "fair game" just because it is possible for someone to grab it.  Just because game mechanics allow something, doing it to annoy or harm a fellow Glitch is still called griefing.
    Posted 12 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In this game, griefing is not allowed.  It is against the Community Guidelines and is a reportable offense.

    If a sign in the Community Gardens explicitly says that kind of behavior is not only allowed by game mechanics, but is allowed under the Community Guidelines, then it's not reportable and it's not griefing.

    Being a jerk is not the same as griefing.  
    Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The sign says "anyone may harvest", which leaves a lot of room for being part of the community, doing your own thing, or being a jerk.  Again, any form of taking something away from another person who is standing there creating it, growing it, or using it, so that you are taking the benefit away from them and hogging it for yourself is griefing.  Granted, there are lots of ambiguous situations that can exist, and if you don't ask in those cases, you have just decided to be a jerk, so don't try to make excuses.
    Posted 12 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • More public herb garden streets with a lot more plots would totally fix this problem.  The reason people hog things that are meant to be free community property is because those things aren't in sufficient supply to meet demand.

    I noticed this when I was in the university.  Hungry students in a student union building risk theft of their stuff (including valuable text books and irreplaceable notes and gadgets) by marking tables with them, to try to retain the benefit of having a place to sit and eat, as well as so they don't have to hold the stuff while in line.  Of course this custom causes places to be taken up longer than would otherwise be necessary for eating a meal.  Sometimes it more than doubles the time a student takes up a spot.  This causes the inflation of the value of places to sit and eat, making the problem worse.  

    Any way it's done, RESERVING plots to particular individuals will cause the same problem.  Each plot would be in use longer than the person really needs.  If there is adequate space, be it for seating or for raising herbs,  people won't be greedy about it.  There will be no need to mark or lock anything at all if there's enough.  Stealing someone else's guano'd herbs occurs because people are frustrated enough to be borderline dishonest.  

    This is so obvious I'm betting that this is exactly what's going on behind the scenes, if the housing changes won't fix it outright. I'm positive that the people who run this site care if we're unhappy.
    Posted 12 months ago by So sorry Subscriber! | Permalink
  • More public herb garden streets with a lot more plots would totally fix this problem.
    YES.  However it *still* won't fix the problem of griefers following just to steal.  :<

    I like your post though.  =)
    Posted 12 months ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • People who willfully steal won't enjoy this game very long, I think. Let them move on to GTA or whatever.
    Posted 12 months ago by So sorry Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My solution to the problem of the public herb gardens is to remove them. Then there will be no more Glitch who refuse to understand that if something leaves their inventory, it no longer belongs to them, complaining about things not in their inventory ending up in someone else's inventory. Problem solved. And those of us who chose to get a bog house will no longer have to compete with those Glitch who think they should have access to everything without having to give up  anything.
    Posted 12 months ago by Dr. Yeti Subscriber! | Permalink
  • With the ability to enter the homes of friends, this is a non issue.  You want to have some safe plots?  Play the game, be social, make friends, and use their plots.

    Instead of looking to TS to fix this 'problem', use the in-game resources to deal with it.  Plant in groups, chat with people around you, start a group, and if someone does continuously take what you planted after asking them to stop, simply report them and go do something else until they've moved on (and if they don't, report again).

    IrenicRhonda said something very true.  With the adding of the potion skills, herbs are worth a lot now (http://www.glitch.com/forum/ideas/14311/146660/).  It will eventually even back out.

    And if it doesn't... save up for a house.
    Posted 12 months ago by a lifted pixel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • TS obviously has some other idea in mind for the herb/produce aspect of the economy, so I'm not expecting them to provide a solution in the new housing upgrades.  If they wanted the same solutions as the users do, the Produce vendors would be selling herbs, the newest streets built would have included more public gardens, or plots in each house type would be configurable for either crops or herbs.

    The solution to resource imbalances is not to move, because people would have to move every few weeks for their current resource needs, which is stupid.  The solution is not "just get friends," because even though I would treat my friends' property with respect, the horror stories I have seen on these forums resulting from house-sharing do not make me inclined to want to participate in that problem.

    And no, I do not believe that complaints about stealing mean that the victims are just stupid whiners.  I've had people tell me in RL that if they can break into my computer and hack it, it's my fault for not knowing enough to keep them out.  I've had them tell me if they can break into my car or house, it's my fault for not having better locks and security.  No, I do not believe in anarchy, and I believe that thieves are BAD People.  I'd prefer not to have to deal with criminals in a game where I am trying to have fun and relax.
    Posted 12 months ago by KhaKhonsu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Mereret, people that tell you things like that in RL are just as much part of the problem as those who commit the crimes.  I am seriously curious as to when our society started moving towards the idea that victims deserve what they get because they didn't take enough precautions.  It reminds me of the horrible line of thinking that allows RL criminals to get away with more than they should.
    Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan Subscriber! | Permalink