Topic

ToS breaking with keys

It is perfectly OK, as far as TS is concerned, to register a second account, send a key to your house (firebog, for example) to your first account (who's got a 50k house) and then have access to both herb and crop gardens.
Questions: Am I missing something? If not, any ideas on how to prevent this (if you consider it to be unfair, of course)?

Posted 13 months ago by Electric Wizard Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • lol @ Volkov - I think we're talking the same talk...just using different words to do so :D
    Posted 13 months ago by sgjo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah.
    I've only seen the complaint about alts since this whole purple flower craze came about with the skills.
    Posted 13 months ago by Volkov Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I rarely post in the forums due to being butchered for having any opinion, but here it goes:

    I agree with the "alts should be able to share keys/ resources" idea. I also agree partly with larky- if we aren't allowed to resource share, this should have been made clear in the beginning. I feel like a criminal for enjoying my alt more. due to this new policy, my alt will probably collect dust.

    I understand not having an unfair advantage, but as one poster pointed out, this affects several, not just me. I understand not playing multiples at the same time (you could easily get the game of crowns badges that way), but I feel that if you are willing to put the time and energy into getting a second account, home, and using that second home for the garden or storage or whatever, then you should be allowed to do so.

    I will now blissfully ignore any attacks and belief that staff has listened to this.
    Posted 13 months ago by bored no more Subscriber! | Permalink
  • re herbs, not only is there a craze for herbs but the herb throughput of bog houses is pretty low so it's hard for herbalists to meet demand.  I think the max is 12 plots, and you get 2-4 purple per plot, so 1-2 tinctures per planting, which is an hour without guano, plus you have to shuck some of your harvest to replant.  I'm not sure how fast it is with guano, but guano would make it very labor intensive and I'm not sure it would be worthwhile.  Without much guano and playing more than I really should during a work week it took me several plantings just to finish my own tincture quest.   I haven't even seen the potion recipes yet, but tinctures alone are not enough to balance herb-growing with crop-growing.

    re alts: I'm most influenced by KoL, where the question you ask is 'Does this give my character an advantage people playing multiple characters don't have?'  But glitch is such a different world, less competitive and with less specialized characters, I think here I'd ask something more like 'Does this cause any disadvantage to players not playing multiple characters?'   I don't want to have to play a second character to be competitive or even to just not feel like a dumb jerk, but if you're just amassing currants in ways that don't snarf limited or communal resources and your doing that doesn't inflate prices to where I can't participate effectively in the marketplace, I don't really care much, I think.
    Posted 13 months ago by Zauberberg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here is my take on the matter, it might be possibly wrong or might have a point or two. In any case, feel free to correct / comment on whatever I will say:

    In my case, I made an alt (well, two actually) after reading carefully the existing ToS (which does state that the only clause not allowed in this scenario is for players owning multiple accounts to not be online at the same time, which I stricly adhere to.) just so (1) I can procure a 50k house which I've always dreamed of without leaving my friends behind in Aranna (which, obviously, does not have a 50k housing quarter) and (2) so that The State University of Ur (oh yes, shameless plug there lol) can have a sort of place for its members to call 'home' (or in this case, 'campus').

    I never really liked the idea of alts because they're a pain to manage. I can barely make do with my own Glitch (this one) and the thought of managing two more horrifies me, but within the bounds of what the game can offer (the absence of group halls, lack of proper customization for housing), I'm afraid this is the best I've got to achieve my Glitch (and out group)'s dreams.

    Should it ever be against the ToS in any other way I've never perceived then I will discontinue their use. The University house is free for everyone's use and I hardly make anything out of it as all those who have access to it at the moment are using its gardens, harvesting off the livestock, and leaving them in a collections pile in that house. We would really love a feature that lets a Glitch design its own house (which they say is coming) and also a separate feature where a Glitch group creator can design / build / imagine their own group hall of sorts (which I believe has been a longstanding suggestion already).

    Glitch has already grown into me and I would never do anything to take advantage of it nor its players. I am just trying to make do with what the game currently has and what is within existing policies and terms of usage.

    My two cents.

    - Dave Aflaris
    Lord Magister of the State University of Ur
    Posted 13 months ago by Dave Aflaris Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just putting my own thoughts out there:

    As people have said, I too was told that it was okay.  I was told that as long as two accounts are not online at the same time.  So I do not even log into the website at the same time.  I was also told that the intent behind things was to not do something somebody else can't do - the example was two alts mining at the same time and getting bonuses.  Other people with one character couldn't do that.  But they can get a key from someone else and go plant things.

    I am just frustrated that I was doing something I was told was okay and now I see that it might have been wrong to do.

    I very much agree with the request that staff talk about this among themselves before having an official stance on the matter because it seems to me that perhaps different staff have different opinions.
    Posted 13 months ago by diaveborn ♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why don't just encourage the use of alts? Why don't allow two, three or more characters within the same account (like many other MMOs do)? "Oh, my mage is not useful here, let me bring in my paladin." Allowing this would solve the "don't play two characters at the same time" issue, and would also solve the thing about "unfair advantages" over players who don't have alts.

    To forbid the use of alts to grant you access to crops and herbs is so contrary to the spirit of "play the way you want" (in a game that currently doesn't offer much in that respect) that I simply find it hard to believe TS will do it.
    Posted 13 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • At the end of the day, don't ban something that you can't enforce... that's just creating a big bag of trouble for yourselves. Was that alt me - or was it my partner/housemate? You'd need to study the interactions very closely and even then might not get it right. Hours & hours of staff work going into making people unhappy. This doesn't sound like Tiny Speck's way of working.

    I created an alt so I could experience the Back Alley quest & was thinking about it buying a herb house so that my main character had access to a supply of herbs. It just doesn't feel quite right though... I want another way of doing it.

    I know you probably don't want to make any changes to the housing system with the Great New Housing System on the horizon, but I think a flower-pot would neatly remove the desire for many people to operate an alt. It doesn't need to be unlimited... personally I'd be totally happy with a restriction of, say, 2 flower pots per house - I don't need to have the full capabilities of a herb house... I know that I've made that compromise when I selected a crop house.
    Posted 13 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Snazzlefrazz: "Hours & hours of staff work going into making people unhappy."

    This!!
    Posted 13 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It seemed obvious when keys were introduced that this would fundamentally change the dynamic of the game by allowing players to access the resources of multiple houses. I assumed this change was anticipated and thought-out by TS as a way to start moving towards the kind of game play that can be expected once changes such as customizable housing are put in place.

    Anticipated or not, the dynamic IS going to change whether the sharing extends to alts or is limited to networks of players.  In terms of impact on the game or the players, it's difficult for me to see how allowing the sharing of houses between alts is different from the sharing of houses between, say, me and my spouse.  Sharing with friends and families represents a different lifestyle choice than sharing with alts, but I didn't think TS was in the business of encouraging some lifestyle choices over others.

    If players can grow crops and herbs in the gardens of other players, then why not let alts do it?  If alts are not allowed to do such things, then people will begin asking friends to join Glitch to help them -- resulting in Glitch getting a certain reputation.

    Without looking at external information, is there really a way to tell the difference between an alt and a friend who is in the game just to help out a friend?  And if external information is to be used, how in the world is TS going to differentiate between one person using an alt vs. two family members who share a computer, IP address, and credit card?
    Posted 13 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • All this makes me really angry, from what I have read in various threads over the past few weeks, it is ok -for example- for people to put in the legwork/time/energy/currants etc,and tend and grow crops/herbs in community gardens, just to have other players swoop in and nick (ie steal) the harvests, yet it is not ok,for players to earn/buy two houses,and avoid being stolen from? A person who steals is ok,but a person trying to quietly enjoy a game,and who keeps him/herself to him/herself is not? ~and until there is a legal way to protect yourself from in game theft,I will have to assume taking things away from others is a legitimate part of the game.
    [this -of course- does not include the use of those bot thingies,or whatever else they're called]
    sigh..seems going back to beta happened in the nick of time.

    ETA: Apart from giving home owners the option to have both crop and herbs in their gardens,perhaps an alternative to community gardens could be  for people to buy Allotments,which only they can plant and harvest,thus preventing other players from 'taking' what isn't theirs, and/or one player 'hogging' all available plots,leaving none for others to use.
    Posted 13 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with you Scilly. Whole thing seems stupid. 
    Once this is enforced ,we're going to be under pressure to share houses with other players so we can have all resources and then there will be a ton of issues with theft.  But stealing's seen as okay? Seems kind of stupid really. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Ebiler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The thing that gets my goat is that those who choose not have an alt get to mandate how players with alts get to play their game.
    There's nothing stopping them from having an alt and being able to do whatever they're bitching about us doing, but because they choose not to, the rest of us have to play by their rules.

    ETA:  - OMGZ!!! I used an alt to write this...should that be bannable too?
    Posted 13 months ago by JoJoJoey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really don't understand the reasoning behind suddenly changing the TOS rule of not allowing alts to give a "significant unfair advantage" to each-other, to not allowing alts to give "any advantage" to each-other. This is effectively what has been stated, although not yet "officially", I guess. The sudden change of heart seems to be due solely to the release of the new skills, and the new demand for herb gardens that didn't exist before. It seems shady to change the spirit of the rules because of the presence of new content. The result will be to make a significant, exciting new gameplay effectively impossible for some people to experience, which will only foster bitterness and jealousy. Not very Glitchy.

    Also, I really don't see why this should be an issue since we have been told that the intent of the designers is to make it so that we have a choice of having both herb and regular gardens in our house in the near future. So why not temporarily allow us to have that right now through the use of alts? In the devs vision of the perfect game, we will be able to do that, so how is it cheating to do it now through other means? My mind is boggled.

    Rest assured, I won't use my alt's home for herbs any more. I will partake in friends' herb gardens, although I don't think there's very much of a difference, so it seems silly.
    Posted 13 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with everyone else on allowing the alts.

    I will not use alts to manipulate the economy or to cause any kind of insult or injury to other players, or trick them in any way. BUT i want the option to share the keys and resources.

    IF it should be decided to NOT allow sharing of keys and resources among characters played by the same person (as long as every character is played properly, individually, one at a time), I will want from TS rational and reasonable explanations for denying this, something that is perfectly allowed and normal in other mmos, something that does not harm other characters, something that is NOT an advantage. And I would very much like TS to explain the word 'advantage' in Glitch context, if they should use it in their rules of banning resource sharing among alts, seeing that there is no such thing as 'wining the game', or 'endgame content'.
     
    WHY is it considered an advantage MY choice of playing more than others, MY choice of how to share my resources?
    How exactly is an advantage something that can be done by everyone?? Its ridiculous!
    Posted 13 months ago by Merope Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I came into Glitch in late Alpha. I had an advantage over everyone that came in after launch 1.0. We got to play for a week before the flood gates opened. We had an advantage over everyone that came in after that week. I have been playing for months. I have an advantage over everyone that starts today. My alt was imagined into Ur before keys. It learned the skill tree enough to do herb 1 & 2. It would send my main herbs and the main would send it currants. I have bypassed the postal system with the introduction of keys. I have even planted a few herbs with my main in my alt’s garden. *gasp* Am I flooding the auctions with product. No, never have. Even when we had the collector bug and I was making oodles of currants selling the meat and milk to vendors. What did I do with that largess? I helped group members get into houses they wanted. What am I doing with the herbs from my alts account? I am helping to make potions and tinctures for a group party. You cannot assume that everyone with an alt is trying to get one over on the rest of Ur. 
    Posted 13 months ago by Piece of Serenity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Truer words were never spoken Piece!  I for one just want to have fun!  I don't play for meaness or gain, I just want to play!  And considering I've given (NOT sold, GIVEN) away about 75% of my tinctures.... it's rediculous to say that I'm doing this for an unfair advantage.  It was fine with TS before the new skills, and that should not make a difference now.  I just don't understand why so many Glitch feel the need to control others.  I say live and let play!
    Posted 13 months ago by kat65 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Having slept on this (a little, anyway!), I'd like to add something else.

    I don't like the terminology "main" and "alt." It is entirely possible to have two distinct characters playing, who are essentially equal in "power" (whatever that means in Glitch). One doesn't feed or prime the other; they exchange goods and services just like every other two glitches can in UR. There's no special advantage being gained in such a relationship, except perhaps a TINY bit of mind-reading convenience.

    But again, so what? For the player who happened to have two fully developed characters in place before the Herbal Revolution, why is it suddenly not okay for them to continue forward as they had been, abiding by every condition set forward in the ToS and affirmed by Staff?

    I urge TS to rethink and just chill on this. Honestly, let's ask again: what harm is being done and to whom by non-overlapping characters?
    Posted 13 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tiny Speck will devote 50% of its global budget to the creation of the UNFAP, the Unfair-Advantage Police. It will consist of several squadrons of the ugliest-looking, most fear-inducing avatars they can muster. Maybe even with Darth Vader masks.

    "I created an alt during beta, so I have two funpickles". Quick! Call the UNFAP!
    "I filled two bags with gifts, gave one to a random newbie and the other one to my alt". Oh, no! Go call the UNFAP!
    "I created an alt and bought a bog house, so I can grow herbs". OMGs! Call the UNFAP right now!

    (I sincerely believe that Blanky, well-intentioned as always, simply overreacted. I expect TS won't enforce this rule.)
    Posted 13 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ...and just how do snipers fit in with 'unfair advantages' over other players? Totally unfair imo.
    Posted 13 months ago by ~Scilly~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • IMO, the auction snipers are far more of an unfair advantage than *most* players who have gangers. 

    My hope is that the discussions at TS are around what makes the most sense for the interim while the new housing options are rolled out. TS has always taken care of this community in ways that are more fair and balanced than any community I have been involved in to date. It's one of the reasons I am a rabid raving fan of them - even moreso than the game which I dearly love.

    Rather than devoting energy to swirling and angst-filled posts, game on Glitchen. Consider your game play and if it is fair in the spirit in which the ToS and guidelines are intended. Give TS some time to work this out. Unless what you are doing is completely egregious. Then stop it. 

    Or I'll vigilante love and kindness you to death.
    Posted 13 months ago by g33kgurrl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As I said in my main account, I play my accounts as separate accounts - meaning that one rarely shares with another.
    They each buy/make/obtain whatever they need to without the help from the other.
    I use the keys to be able to drop my bags when I'm moving and I'll be damned if I get accused of unfair game play if I accidentally pick up the wrong bag to take to my new digs.

    I've had an alt since before beta was over so I didn't do it for the keys (my computer would never be able to handle 2 accounts at the same time and I've never had the urge to play that way, anyway...tho I still see no problem with it being done)

    My accounts DID share a house when peeps started screaming about alts supposedly hogging up all the "good" housing. But it was crashing my game and so I said screw it coz they'd find a way to bitch about that too (was I right or what!?!)

    People just need to get over themselves - their game play is no more important to them than my game play is to me and for TS to start making up rules (in a game that claims not to have any...just guidelines) to satisfy the wants of a few others is just wrong in my book.
    Posted 13 months ago by JoJoJoey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, I believe I acted in good faith and hopefully staff will take that into account if they decide to lower the boom on the practice, but in the meantime I revoked keys between my two characters.

    Strangers in the night... *whistling*
    Posted 13 months ago by Wrenlet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the real question here is why do people have so many accounts? Maybe it has something to do with the game design not working right / or not giving the gamers the extras so that they don't have to create a second account - hummm maybe this is why we are in Beta again.

    So until Glitch can work out the extras (which I know are in development (ty TS)) for the daily players, there will alway be Glitchen's making extra accounts and willing to break the TOS rules because its there way of hacking the game to get what they want from it.

    so Blanky it won't matter how complete you make this list of violations on what you can do with your 2nd/3rd/4th/5th  accounts - it might drive them away or it might create a whole new wave of accounts, if things start getting to locked down.

    respectfully saying and with 100% love for the game
    Shadow
    Posted 13 months ago by Shadow8Reaper Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If key-sharing between alts (or as Pascale very well puts it, non-overlapping characters played by the same person) ends up being forbidden, I for one will want to know how TS will deal with the actual real unfair advantage of people that have many friends playing Glitch and thus having many keys shared, compared to those of use who do not have friends playing.

    Posted 13 months ago by Merope Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It seems a simple solution for this would be to just allow any garden to grow either crops or herbs.  Seems most the second accounts are for the herb/crop thing, especially now that the new potions have been released.  Unless you can grow herbs, you cannot do any of that.  You don't get enough harvest from herbs to make them abundant on auctions.  Looking this morning, one hairball flower was going for 1000 currants.  That's really ridiculous...
    Posted 13 months ago by Cabinwood Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To be clear: this has nothing to do with players who *choose* to play with only one character wanting to dictate how the rest of you play. Not at all - this isn't a result of any one part of the community complaining about another. And it doesn't come expressly down to an issue of housing and plots, as the mechanics around this will also change in time (as I'm sure you've heard about!). It's a deeper issue about the use of alts, which could plainly use more clarification for everyone. And yes, we are going to take the time to ensure that this is made more clear, with consideration to the perspectives that have been brought up here and elsewhere, and the expectations around the use of alts that players have had up to this point.

    And to ease your concerns about what we're keeping in mind while we think about these not-uncomplicated issues: "This is all one big improvisation: we aim to create a game that can be played for a long, long time—one where new worlds and new rules of play are discovered and explored in an ever-unfolding way." (Yup, straight from our guidelines.)
    Posted 13 months ago by Blanky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I think the real question here is why do people have so many accounts? Maybe it has something to do with the game design not working right / or not give the gamers the extras so that they don't have to create a second account - hummm maybe this is why we are in Beta again."

    I see this sort of thinking a lot in the comments, and it comes off the assumption that the ONLY reason to have a second character is for advantage, which is malarkey. Why do so many traditional videogamers play a game they've already "won" all the way through again? To make different choices and have a different experience.

    People need to stop acting like the only possible, conceivable reason for anyone to have second account is to treat it like a bot. Both my characters are in the 30s now, I play them both and enjoy them both.
    Posted 13 months ago by Nixified Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ahh...was just going by what you'd said in the first screamfest thread that popped up mentioning alts  :)
    Posted 13 months ago by JoJoJoey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree that the issue needs clarification. For example, player Al has two alts Bill and Bob.
    Bill has a house he likes but Bob does not. Al is playing as Bill, not Bob, when he hears in chat that new housing finally opened up in Rasana.

    Isn't Al giving Bob an "alt advantage" (the only kind of in-game advantage to be forbidden afaik) if Al stops playing as Bill and logs in Bob to get a 50k house?

    Isn't this a long way from the "mules" and "bots" forbidden by the TOS?
    Posted 13 months ago by Vocable Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Something my partner said when I was talking to him about this issue last night was that only allowing one charter really limits people in how they can play the game.  This is right in line with what Nixified just pointed out.  I hadn't thought of it that way before, but it's true.  

    We both played WoW for the last 7 years.  If we had not been allowed to have alts and enjoy the game from many different perspectives there is no way it would have held out interest for that many years.  I have at least 7 toons on that game that I leveled up because it was so inserting to play the different classes and helpful to have the different professions.

    I know this game is really nothing like WoW other than they are both games and both MMOs.  I am really enjoying this game and think it has so much potential.  I am enjoying enough to pay for the full subscription, as I feel the developers deserve to be paid for what I am enjoying.  I don't know the answer here.  I just thought I'd throw out what I was thinking.
    Posted 13 months ago by Flanuora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I usually, almost always try to stay away from posting in threads that are, might or even remotely would become passionate and bluntly controversial.  I have distinct characters.  I use them to support my friends in their quests, I pay for them separately and would hope that the devel team and support staff could focus on their plans for the future without being drawn into something that would take them away from that stated goal.  I love the game.  I've come up thru the ranks earning everything along the way, paid my dues and time in learning the skills.  I try to play it forward helping, so please if I can change one persons mind...let the devs focus on their plan.  There will always be someone who figures out the "shortcuts" or takes advantage of someone but after all they are the ones that have to wake up with themselves.  In my world, the good players (guys/gals) always win.
    Posted 13 months ago by AlmostSilver Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What of the alternative accounts that are also yearly subscribers - refund their subscription?
    Posted 13 months ago by bad2dabone Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's what I'm waiting to hear as well, bad, coz the people who gifted me Moly's (as well as the person who gifted me an extra month on the one) will need to be reimbursed if the alts are going to continuously be targeted.
    Posted 13 months ago by JoJoJoey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would like to know to since I have 3 paid accounts and I paid for my moms account too. I play by myself and i don't care about the leaderboards or getting ahead in the game. I play to get away from real life,
    Posted 13 months ago by Littletigger79 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Blanky, here are 3 ways one can gain exclusive access to both herb and vegetable gardens.

    Case 1:
    I work in the IT field. Within the same building there are about 120 colleagues, and in the years I've worked there I got to know quite well about 40 of them. Monday, during the lunch break, I go to some of them and say:

    "Hey, I'm playing this game called Glitch. I need you to help me with something. I want you to make an account in the game, I will give you the in-game money to buy a house there, and then give me a key to that house. We'll be done in 5 minutes, and you don't have to play the game anymore if you don't want to."

    I know a handful of them don't have the time, or the desire, to play computer games, but at the same time they will spend 10 minutes of their time to help me with something. Is this ok?

    Case 2:
    Over the past 2 months or so I've been playing the game, I got to know quite a lot of nice people and we've become friends. Next time I see each of them log in the game I tell them:

    "Hey, how about you go make an alt, and buy a bog house. I'll do the same with my alt. Then my alt will give your main a key to his house, and your alt will give my main a key to the house he bought. Each of us will have exclusive access to that house."

    Now, according to what you hinted at earlier this thread, it's not our own alt that's giving us an unfair advantage by sharing a key to a different type of garden. It's someone else's alt. So it should be ok?

    Case 3:
    I make an alt, and buy a bog house. My alt sends my main a key, and my main uses this bog house to grow some herbs.

    Now Blanky, you're saying the last one, case 3 is now against the rules. How about the other 2? Certainly case 1 shouldn't be against the ToS or guidelines at all... I did recommend Glitch to several of my friends that would enjoy this type of game, and some of them did make an account. What if I throw in the mix 1 or 2 friends I know will stop playing after a few days?

    Even if there will be a strict "all alts are forbidden" policy, anyone can still go ask a few work colleagues or friends to make accounts in game and share their house keys with them. Some might end up playing the game, but again, some might not.

    Unless TS plans to introduce strict skill tree specialization, where picking vegetable gardening will block same player to also learn talents in the herb growing tree, and combine it with a strict no alt policy, there isn't really a way to force people not to "own" access to both a veggie and a herb garden.

    But... why would you or TS want to do that?
    Posted 13 months ago by Heatseeker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • May I make a suggestion?

    What if we built more herb gardens with purchasable plots?  These would be similar to the community herb gardens, but players would have to pay for their plots.  Perhaps there could be a limit of 6 plots per player.  The plots would operate like the homes in the sense that only the owner could access them.  This would eliminate some of the feuds I have witnessed in the community herb gardens ever since the introduction of the tincturing skill.  It would also eliminate the temptation to create an alt account just for herb-growing.  
    Posted 13 months ago by Little Violet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I'll also want a refund if this account's no longer allowed.  My main, Ebil, is buggy and won't let me play. Got to refresh when I enter house, leave house, check mail, do any action like nibbling, petting etc.. I've bugged it and been told it'll be looked into, but that it's "not a priority".  Which is fine since at present I'm using this. 
    However, if I'm only going to be allowed to play on my main account that doesn't work, then I'll want my moly sub off that one and my copper from this one refunded. Plus all the extra credits I've bought on them, as you'll be forcing me into an account that is unplayable.  
    Plus I'll also be forced to quit, as I'm not playing an unplayable game. 
    So I suggest that this is considered very carefully before being made a 'rule'.  
    Posted 13 months ago by Ebiler Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's another thought...

    Last night for 2 hours I was the sole herb provider for several types of herbs. And they kept selling faster than I could produce them with guano (I used a friend's herb garden for the entire production).

    Now I'm looking at the available auctions for herbs, and there's plenty of herb types with less than 20 herbs for sale; prices in the ranges 800 - 2000 for a single herb. Do we want to limit the herb production even further, because clearly the demand is there?

    What harm will an alt do that will help others get the goods they seek? Wouldn't everyone benefit from a stable market, with plenty of supply, and more realistic prices?

    Further more, what is the unfair advantage in this case? If by my actions I'd be harming other players then it would be an unfair advantage. Perhaps I see things wrong, but in this alt herb issue my actions produce goods within the mechanics of the game, in a market that clearly would use a lot more supply.

    The whole issue will silently go away when we'll have the option to customize our own homes, and have both herb and veggie production from the same home, or other sort of private space like others suggested in this thread.

    But until then, further limiting the production on an already scarce market would do what good? And to whom? Do I actually harm anyone if I make an alt and give myself access to herb production in a safe and private environment, or do I actually help those players that seek herbs right now?
    Posted 13 months ago by Heatseeker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's been said before, but must be said repeatedly, it's silly to even care about "advantage" in this game.  And it's a free game, anyone can make any number of accounts that their blessed little heart desires -- it's clear you'd either have to spend all your time enforcing this, it's that you will end up stepping on the toes of people with spouses, siblings, or roommates that play.  

    And yes even if you want to claim there's such a thing as an advantage in Glitch.  It's a free to play game.  It's free.  Anyone can start any number of counts; therefore, there is no special advantage.  I generally like you guys and have been impressed with your choices and communication, but this is absurd, pushy, and feels a bit invasive.  This game isn't competitive.  Even if someone wants to have the most currants ever, who loses?  With the vendor system, I still make currants, so I certainly don't lose.  
    Posted 13 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I remember when TS first put out the Community Guidelines - everyone was sooo happy to finally have some guidelines.

    For myself, I too wanted to create a mule/alt, and especially now with the potion making. But reading the guidelines, I decided not to, because it would give me an unfair advantage.  It's how I role. So now I can't mail my stuff to my alt if I want to move, and I can't grow both veggies and herbs to make potions and work on achievements - I'm good with that, and by no means am I dictating that you play the way I do.

    For those of you who were told that it was okay by staff - I get how that would be upsetting.
    Blanky said they were working on a statement that will be clear and concise, why not wait for that?
    Posted 13 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So, here's what I don't understand… if, as Blanky says, there haven't been complaints from players without alts concerned about players with alts, how is there a problem?

    What needs to be fixed here? In what way is the generally understood and understandable one-alt-at-a-rule time not working?

    I still don't see how someone putting in the time on two characters is getting "an unfair advantage." Unfair in what sense, and to whom?
    Posted 13 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pascale, the issue isn't playing 2 totally independent characters. The issue that Blanky commented on was someone making an alt, buying a bog house with the said alt, and giving a key to your main. Then your main would be using that bog house.

    Me, I am having trouble seeing how this game mechanic would provide an unfair advantage as there are other ways to accomplish the same - some of which I've pointed out in an earlier message - exclusive access to both a bog and veggie garden with the same character at the same time, and at least some of them well within the allowed game mechanics.

    This is a temporary workaround until a permanent fixture will be deployed by TS with the house customizations. If other players are unwilling to put in the time and effort it would take to make an alt and replicate the same strategy, isn't it similar to how someone chooses to learn mining V and others crying it's not fair I'm mining faster and producing more?

    It's well within the ability of anyone playing the game to do exactly the same, and it's not hurting anyone nor is it exploiting bugs or anything shady. Just creative use of the allowed game mechanics.

    The core issue here is being allowed to have a choice in how to play the game in respect to this, until a more proper and straight foundation is laid out by the awesome TS team.
    Posted 13 months ago by Heatseeker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Heatseaker, I understand the key exchange issue. Again, I say: so what? Where's the "unfair advantage?" What opportunity is thereby made unavailable to some players?

    As you point out, there are myriad other ways to accomplish the same goal—several that arguably require less time and effort invested than running two full-fledged personas non-concurrently.
    Posted 13 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Pascale, my apologies for editing my message while you were replying, but thought I could further refine my thoughts...
    Posted 13 months ago by Heatseeker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hey everyone with alts..lets group together and go mass mine the Deeps..or wait lets go take over Ajaya Bliss and Neva Neva!!..Oh wait  now that would just be plain Wrong wouldn't it?
    Oh another suggestion..lets go sit on a teal and white triangle key all day and grab it every time and then sell for ALOT of currants...oh wait lets take over the community Herb gardens and leave notes everywhere saying don't harvest others plants..but umm it is community and you left so who are you???  Oh wait lets group together and help people with that Peter out bog quest that we love so much but can never get enough people to help with...oh wait lets just randomly help others with houses or whatever else they ask/need? My main goal with this game since starting was to help others...and yes I have an alt..this is it..do i play them at the same time..no, (except when absolutely one cannot help another player,like the bog quest) they are different skills mindset, so they are able to help in different ways...When upgrades to houses happen alts really will be a mute point anyway HOPEFULLY!! but seriously if ya need help ask supposedly that is what this game is about and if Maxine can't help you my alt. can..
    Posted 13 months ago by MaxineG Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One last contribution, and then I'm going to do my best to let this go until there's more Staff feedback.

    I really disagree with the notion that the essential or only motivation to create an "alt" is to serve a "main" character. In a game like Glitch where "advantage" is nebulous and as meaningless as the idea of "winning," I should think the primary reason to create another character is to experience the world through a different prism of experiences and and to role-play different personalities and social styles.

    The game mechanics and economics are, in my view, ultimately of negligible relative importance (because cui malo—to whom is harm being done?).

    What kind of world does Glitch want to be? Open, fluid, playful, and experimental? Or fearful, rigid, limiting, and constantly worried about scarce resources (that aren't actually scarce) and the notion that some Jones somewhere might be having fun that some Smith isn't (although the opportunity is equally fully available to Smith)?

    @Heatseeker: No problem, I think we're actually in heated agreement. :D
    Posted 13 months ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The easy fix for T.S.: Change the game code to disallow planting and harvesting in houses you have a key for.

    That would be an interim 'fix' but one that makes it so that the role of game staff does not need to shift from being positive facilitators working mostly with players having fun to being negative cops working mostly with snitches.
    .
    Posted 13 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL @ MaxineG

    I'm tired and getting slap happy and that just made me LMFAO!!
    Posted 13 months ago by JoJoJoey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am in the same situation as a previous poster - I have a gorgeous cottage living on my own that I absolutely love and cherish. However, I also wanted to be able to have a big 50k house on the same street as my friends. I was so torn between my cottage and the 50k house, but was told each time to create an alt to purchase the 50k house and that this would be 100% within TOS. I asked NUMEROUS times if creating an alt for this purpose was allowed and each time was told that the only rule was that I couldn't log onto both characters at once - which I completely understand.

    Some of my friends only use their houses for storage. That means the piggies they collect meat from and the crops they plant, they don't actually want. All that meat and all those crops easily go to me if I ask. Is this cheating? It's the same advantage that I have with my alt's house; all the meat and crops are mine! I understand that it's different because it's a friend and not an alt, but as everyone else has pointed out, I can still use the home plots of a friend who is no longer playing to recreate the same effect. Similarly, I have absolutely no issues with people collecting out of my meat collectors or taking some of my crops if they ask first - my hard work goes straight to them. 

    I find it extremely confusing that having a crop garden on a main and an herb garden on an alt is all of a sudden an issue when I have been told multiple times (before the key system) that I should simply make an alt to have the best of both worlds *because it was absolutely allowed* and even commonplace. 

    I very much hope that (if it does come down to it) there is a way to distinguish between friends and alts, because if I am forced to delete my alt I hope that my 4 roommates who I also play glitch won't also get in trouble. Despite all this though, I will be extremely upset if I was unable to play the game or if I somehow got into trouble because I did something that I was told was and has been for a while completely legal. 

    I think all of this is silly, and I really do not think that the rule should be changed, because I honestly don't think I have any major advantage over anyone else. Anyone with a friend's key can have the EXACT same opportunities that I do. And I can't even grow herbs.
    Posted 13 months ago by heartNadia Subscriber! | Permalink