Topic

Staff Topic

Changes, Nerfs, New Features and What's Happening

We have made many changes since launch. When we starting designing the underlying systems which power Glitch, one of the fundamental design goals was that changing anything, even while the game is running, should be as easy as possible. This was because we knew that no amount of Alpha or Beta or anything would get us to a version of the game that was "done".

Glitch 1.0, the launch day version, is like 1.0 of (hopefully!) any successful software product: the very first iteration that is "good enough" for public consumption. Everyone knows that the first "really good" good version is 3.0. By that scale, we are now 1.003 ;)

Some of the changes we make will be loved by more or less all players. Some will be met mostly with indifference by current players, but will make the experience better for new players. Others will be liked by some and not liked by others. But we will make changes that are loved by many and hated by few … or even loved by few and hated by many — just hopefully not many that are hated by everyone ;)

If you are reading this, it is likely that we will, from time to time, make changes that you hate. Maybe we did earlier today, or last week or at some other point in the past. We are sorry about this. We truly, earnestly, and with the best possible intentions want to bring joy and wonder and the pleasure of good company to people, not frustrate them, or make them feel punished or cheated or duped.

But, we need to make the best decisions for the game, for the majority of players … the things which make the most sense, the things that seem right. Sometimes we will be mistaken: sometimes we'll have bad data, other times we will just goof up.

When we are mistaken, we will always do our best to fix it. And when we truly believe  a change is for the best, we will stick with it, even if it makes some people mad because we think, in the long run, more people will have more fun (including, often, the people who were mad about the change when it first happened).

 * * *

We have been been nerfing a lot of stuff. Mostly, it works like this: we find dynamics in the game which create massively outsized incentives for people do something SO repetitive and boring that we can't believe they won't end up hating Glitch if they keep doing it (but they will keep doing it if nothing changes, because it is insanely profitable in the game).

For example: a player who made over 500,000 currants in a day turning milk to very, very stinky cheese while on no-no powder. Or several players who got 100s of 1,000s of XP from singing to butterflies after having consumed gurly drinks.  

If we don't change these dynamics, a very small set of "optimal" behaviors will end up dominating most players' time in the game, and hence their experience of the game. And since the rewards are so big, the result of their behavior will be felt by other players in terms of inflation and distortions in the economy.

(We want to move to floating prices and reduce the number of things vendors sell, to create a more interesting player-player economy, but if a handful of players can produce effectively infinite money, that won't always work.)

 * * *

In addition to the price of cheese or teleportation scripts, the number of offers given by The Rube, the number of times you can do X action in a game day, etc., there are more complicated issues, like mining, bonuses, and places like Ajaya Bliss. In the case of Ajaya, we need to avoid having one location in the game that is "overpowered" vs all other locations (we also don't want a homogenous world, but that's another issue).

A combination of factors lead to an overpowered "optimal set of actions" in Ajaya Bliss. As a by-product of that, a great community developed where people were working together and co-ordinating, planning, discussing, strategizing, etc. We needed to break the pattern a bit and as a by-product of that, we might have screwed up an interesting emergent bit of play and a cool community hub.

The latter was definitely not our intention or the purpose of the changes. But, the lesson we took away was: we need to REALLY get moving on dynamics which give larger, co-ordinated/co-operating groups of players a reward that has at least as much (or more) in-game incentive as comparable solo activities.

We are working hard on that: most of our biggest projects now involved groups/group activities. We believe we have very good things cooking in that regard and most of our recent design conversations are about that very topic.

We also have many other features and bits of content in various states of completion (including a few in final QA, so "soon, soon") and we are looking extremely hard at all the qualitative and quantitative data we can get our eyeballs on.

During the first month after beta (we're a week in now) we know we have to be 70% "on deck" for issues that arise as we grow, scaling, support for new players, improving abuse report processes, new bugs from the increased load, etc., etc. But in the 30% we have for moving older high-priority projects along or introducing new smaller features & content, we will really do our honest best to make something that you love.

Love,

— The Whole Team

Posted 14 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Refreshing honesty from a MMO?! I love it.
    Posted 14 months ago by Papa Vodou Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you stoot and all at Tiny Speck for going above and beyond.  Can't speak for anyone else, but am delighted to be here along for the ride. *fastens seat belts*  It's all cool.  Seriously.  It'll all be cool x  
    Posted 14 months ago by Christine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 To T.S & Dev's & the hard work you all do!

    IMO I think no matter what they'll be parts of the game that I/players will love & hate, changes made that frustrate some, but enjoyed by others, etc etc etc... But I think in the end I think to myself there's a reason u guys (devs) make the game they way u do & Why I'm just the player... I may not always understand the 'bigger' picture straight away but believe in the long run it will benefit my playing position in a positive way... So now I think I'm just rambling in circles... I really just want to say that there will always be pros & cons within the game but I want & plan to be here for the 'long' haul & therefore I support (for the most part) any/all nerfs/changes/etc made.... And give you all a thumbs up for making a game I truely enjoy (& committing more RL time then I probably should) playing!! xox
    Posted 14 months ago by BumbleBeez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • <3

    This is exactly why I have stuck with the game (and paid for a subscription) even though I get a bit bored with it and don't necessarily have the time or motivation to play every day. I have faith in the vision of the team, and I know that new and exciting things are to come. 

    Thank you!
    Posted 14 months ago by Becky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you <3
    Sure I grumble about the changes, especially Rube not being Rube-like anymore *cries*
    But, I do understand and respect why you do it.
    Thank you for this post. Hopefully it'll help some people understand the reasoning :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Seriously you guys are making me want to cry!  ;-;

    Such a sweet letter!  We may not always agree on how things are best handled for the long-term, but I know you guys are always working hard and keeping a close eye on us, while also remaining human, honest, and open -- super cool!  I hope I seem the same to you guys, if not today then... something for me to learn to do, as well, something to aspire to.  Stay awesome!
    Posted 14 months ago by FlirtyvonSexenhaven Subscriber! | Permalink
  • hugs - thanks
    Posted 14 months ago by gimmegames Subscriber! | Permalink
  • <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 

    seriously y'all
    Posted 14 months ago by Linar Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The fact that the game is likely to change and evolve is what drew me to Glitch. Opportunities to go "out of book" (chess term) are abound, and I relish in them.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mahasamatman Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1million, stoot!  Awesome as always!
    Posted 14 months ago by Hawkwell Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Love the refreshing honesty Stoot!  As a person who normally hates change...I look forward to each and every one in this ever evolving game!!
    Posted 14 months ago by Pepopsmama Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fantastic!
    Honest and engaging and everything that has kept my interest since alpha.

    I love me some Tiny Speck!!! :D
    Posted 14 months ago by Torgle Mix Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The teleportation changes to AB really got to me for some reason. I think it was the feeling of people working together in there (although it's a kinda uncoordinated, every-Glitch-for-themselves type of working together). Probably explains why Peter Out Peat was always one of my favourite quests.

    But I really appreciate you posting this and being so open about the whole thing. Yes, the financials are kinda bent out of shape by AB co-op mining but there was (and still is a bit) something else going on in there. V glad that you understand that and I'm excited to see what weird & wonderful plans you have up your sleeve to encourage similar group activities.

    Loving this even more
    Posted 14 months ago by Snazzlefrazz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for joining us in Ajaya earlier, it was lots of fun having you there :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Toksyuryel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks so much for sharing these thoughts with us. This is one reason why I love Glitch - the staff actually taking the time and interest to interact and communicate with the players. And an actual explanation of "why we did that" - not something you see very often, if ever!
    <3 to the staff, and {{{hugs}}} all around.
    Posted 14 months ago by Zany Serendipity Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You really didn't have to explain yourself, and you did it anyways! 
    Thanks so much for your honesty and integrity as a development team. Please continue to make this game amazing for everyone, not just a few people. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Jhennauchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As the late, great, Steve Jobs once said, "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.”

    Glitch is a combination of innovation, community and drive, when all three are exist together you can't go wrong. Thanks for bringing the community back again with your post.

    =)
    Posted 14 months ago by Morticia Addams Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Respect.
    Posted 14 months ago by shipwreck Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Honestly, as a game design enthusiast, the amount of transparency and communication the Tiny Speck staff displays is incredibly inspiring. Keep it up. :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Alex The Gingerlion Subscriber! | Permalink
  • thank you ever so much for always explaining things to us. :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Feylin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for being extremely open and transparent about the changes. A lot of companies do not do this, so I really appreciate it. :)

    @Alex the Gingerlion: Seconded. It's really refreshing to see.
    Posted 14 months ago by Vickinator Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot, as usual ...

    YOU ROCK!!

    Thanks for sharing with us...it really matters.
    Posted 14 months ago by Firestone1960 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for that, Stoot. It's nice to see this kind of communication to the playerbase. Hopefully you guys can keep it this wonderful as you grow to dominate a large percentage of the MMO market. ;)
    Posted 14 months ago by Crifmer Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ah Stoot.. and all.. you are awesome. The fact that you knew that I had gotten into a complete grind state of mind with making fried noodles just to make swift currants and that I just couldn't break out of it, even when my house was bought and I had more than I needed, makes me feel so cared for! Now that you've nerfed it I have managed to move on to far more interesting explorations.. and damn just as I discovered gurly drinks and butterflies that goes too.. lol. But that is all part of the fun. Sweet sweetness.
    Posted 14 months ago by Puzz Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wow - you certainly didn't have to explain yourself to us, but you did, and that shows us that you (all) care.  A nice warm fuzzy to start my day.
    I said this somewhere before, but I know there is a vision of what you want this game to be, and I will always trust the changes - whether I like them or not.
    Posted 14 months ago by Stormy Weather Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thank you Stoot and Tiny Speck awesomers for this powerful and honest communique!
    I am honored to be here for the evolution of this amazing game experience, and am very much looking forward to the coming months. Here's hoping you all know how much we love and respect YOU for your incredible talents and dedication to Glitch!
    Posted 14 months ago by welshcorgi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • <3 x a zillion!!
    Posted 14 months ago by La_La Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Change whatever you need to, as long as you stay the same!!
    Posted 14 months ago by Wordfrog Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not to disturb or completely disagree with the love fest going on here, but I do worry that a lot of the joy is being sucked out of the game.  The change to Rube is sad: I just ended up with a single rubemycin for a sheet of paper.  The change to Game of Crowns is sad: only three people can play once, if they're lucky, and if someone leaves or is accidentally disconnected, the whole game ends.  Mood drops much more quickly in the game now, so even if I'm constantly generating more mood points by caring for a street full of trees and animals, I still lose the winky-grinny face within a few minutes.  The inability to teleport to Plexus has depressed several of my friends as well; that area was a happy place, and making it a little harder to access is not beneficial to anyone in the long run (that particular change to teleportation has led to stagnant auction listings for 30,000 currant keys).  The nerfing of musicblocks and gameshow tickets, two of the most adorable bits of the game, is perhaps saddest of all.

    Stranger is the disappearance of two sparkly rocks from Tallish Crest.  Apparently both were removed because there were complaints that it was possible to fall off the ledge where one of the rocks sat, and then other players could swoop in and mine the rock while the fallen player was climbing back up.  Since there are so many players now that it is nearly impossible to mine solo anyway, since the second sparkly rock was on flat ground, and since there are jellisacs which can only be accessed by jumping from vines, I don't see any wisdom in this decision, temporary or not.  I'm afraid that it's part of a pattern of unbroken things being "fixed" in unpleasant ways.

    As for people growing tired of the game after finding some profitable, repetitive task: there is joy in finding harmless exploits, and if you cannot find joy in repetition, this is the wrong game for you anyway.  It may be somewhat irrational, but in the last couple of weeks, I've had the uneasy feeling that anything enjoyable in the game will soon be taken away.  I understand that the staff strives to balance the world, and that it isn't easy, but I hope that you err on the side of fun once in a while.
    Posted 14 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What's happened to gameshow tickets & musicblocks?
    Posted 14 months ago by shhexy corin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You are so correct about Love/Hate and also the need to Nerf some things (sometimes I Hate it).  No matter what yiu do, I always suspecdt it is something that we probably need.  I know that if it does not work well it will be changed or adjusted.  You see a much larger view so I trust your decisions.  Thanks for the heads Up!
    Posted 14 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love all the changes that are made to balance the game, the only I don't like is the message the Rube says after you reject all the trades.
    Posted 14 months ago by Natalia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I tend to agree with glum pudding here, although my view is not so... er... glum.

    I appreciate the need to balance things, of course, but it all depends on how you do it.

    The Rube is a perfect example. It was too much of a good thing: he started appearing a lot, and he gave unlimited options, so in fact he gave a free cubimal every time. This had to be nerfed, but it wasn't necessary to take the fun out of it. Five chances? Ok! But why has the Rube to offer things without value? I would say the solution would be for the Rube to appear less times, maybe a lot less, but with amazing rewards. We all should jump in excitement every time his music begins. As it is after the nerfing, the Rube becomes annoying, and soon we will be ignoring him, and turning down the volume.

    What I try to say is: When changing things, it should be a priority to see where is the fun, and do whatever is needed to preserve it. It can be difficult (Ajaya?), but it should be the goal.
    Posted 14 months ago by Ximenez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There's now a much smaller chance of getting a gameshow ticket when donating to a shrine, and I've only seen one from anywhere else after reset.  Musicblocks used to appear fairly regularly when squeezing chickens or caring for trees, but just before reset, they were made much more scarce.  I think that the chance of getting a gem was lowered around that time as well. 
    Posted 14 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Looking forward to group activities.  Also looking forward to the implementation of the fire bog creatures!  (Maybe if I keep saying that it will come true.)  :P
    Posted 14 months ago by Saralein Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm super keen on the idea of floating prices and limiting what NPCs can sell. A dynamic market would create a much more interesting economy than the one that curently exists. Today there are a handful of wood trees yet their harvest is worth nearly nothing. In contrast, there is an insane amount of rocks being harvisted with price that stay constant. Having vendor buying prices respond to supply and demand would create some pretty interesting group behaviour.
    Posted 14 months ago by Jay Tee d2 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for putting this out, stoot. It is both interesting and gratifying to get a glimpse of what's going on behind the scenes as I merrily squeeze chickens, try to find that last secret room in the Tower and work on gardening. The nimbleness in reacting to game play issues is very impressive. I thank each and everyone of you for providing us such a fantastic gaming experience!

    When things settle down a bit, I hope you will re-visit the gameshow tickets. Not only are they very rare now, they require larger donations. That is well and fine, but to get a bean or just 25c seems is not much fun. As a newbie especially, getting gameshow tickets helped me survive (ah---I can buy some food before I die...again), and helped me learn about donating and how favor works. Same with Music Boxes. I think they are a little too rare now.
    Posted 14 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A nice read. Can't see what changes and updates hold in the future. Best of luck with this amazing game, TS.
    Posted 14 months ago by Draron Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Part of the problem with Ajaya was simply that people could stay in one zone while a resource endlessly respawned. Meanwhile trees and animals require people to keep moving across a ton of zones (although with animals it is at least possible to build up big herds in one spot).

    The fundamental difference between the endless respawn mechanic of mining and the limited times per day mechanic of other harvesting is going to keep cropping this up, I suspect. Especially while mining has cooperative bonuses lacking in other fields.

    I reckon teleports to locked streets other than Ajaya should be restored too. They're a great thing to show other people interested in the game.
    Posted 14 months ago by Axe-a-lot-l Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Ximenez, in that I think the Rube has been devalued. Making him appear far less frequently, but with some reasonable expectation of a great gift makes him mysterious and exciting again.

    He's almost a nuisance at this point.

    As for the big picture, I think getting in front of changes with good communication will help with unnecessary feather-ruffling. If suddenly your favorite pastime is nerfed and you come to the forum to rage, it's much better to have an explanation already up there. Especially in this environment, where rational discussion of changes is encouraged.
    Posted 14 months ago by Biff Beefbat Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Biff Beefbat, all dat.
    +1 Ximinez re: The Rube.
    Posted 14 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great post and feedback. Very interesting. I keep thinking two things: 1. We've been launched for what? A week-ish? I'm thinking things will settle down and TS will do the balancing and rebalancing we've seen them do throughout beta. 2. I love hearing the rationale. I was one who hated the no-no powder nerfs, but I'm used to it now...use it less...and do see the point. Not that I don't miss those good old days sometimes ;) Can't wait to see what else develops...especially the return of group spaces!
    Posted 14 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wait...a nerf for gameshow tickets and music blocks? I've noticed no such thing. Maybe because I'm focusing on AK and gardening, but I've received more of each of those since the game opened for the public than I ever did during beta.

    I have been giving love to a lot of trees and squeezing a lot of chickens and donating quite a bit (though not a LOT yet) and getting both music blocks and gameshow tickets fairly regularly.

    I think it's a problem when things don't work exactly how they used to for someone and they assume it's a nerf. Or they assume they know what the nerf is.
    Posted 14 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Quirk: the staff actually changed ratios, and made that known.  In these cases, it isn't a problem of perception.  For example, the likelihood of getting a gameshow ticket is now much smaller (or none? I can't remember offhand) if you've made a small donation, so you have to make larger donations to get the chance at receiving a ticket.  This was no doubt changed in order to stop people from donating one item at a time in order to obtain a large number of tickets.
    Posted 14 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hmmm. I got most of my gameshow tickets from donating one egg at a time in order to reach 997 or the highest amount of favor I can get without getting an emblem if I'm spending for skill, not for emblem. I think, perhaps, the ratios didn't change quite as much as you think they did.

    I will say, that I'd much rather donate a larger amount of something to get where I want to go. For instance, if I have enough meat in my inventory to donate AND keep me fed, I'll donate that in groups at the 1 for 1 ratio. And I seem to get gameshow tickets maybe slightly more often doing this. I usually end up at home wondering how six tickets got into my inventory without me noticing.

    All I know is that I'll read something in the forums written by a dev, explaining how a change works and what actually changed, then I'll read someone spouting off what they think happened in global (and usually being wrong while arguing that they're not).

    All in all, people are complaining entirely too much about things that don't actually matter. And that makes ME cranky and complainy.
    Posted 14 months ago by Quirk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @glum p.: I think I've gotten tickets from medium donations after reset, so I din't think the donation cap for triggering tickets is very high. That could be a matter of perception, though. It's been less often perndonations total but it doesn't feel too off.

    I do agree about your point with regard to game of crowns, though. I miss the old booths!

    @Devs: thank you for your continued openess about your process and goals. As everyone before me said it, the communication is very greatly appreciated.
    Posted 14 months ago by Caesura Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, that is a fantastic update.  *hugs to the entire team* Thank you so much for you hard work, for listening to us in our ups and down, and taking the time to let us know we are heard and you care. 

    I lobe you guys!  *giant bear hugs*

    Oh yeh, and RAWR!!!
    Posted 14 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Stoot:  Thank you so much for explaining everything!  It really helps to hear what you guys are concocting or why certain things were changed instead of all the speculation.  This thread really helped ease the pain of some of the changes that completing changed my play style, and I'm sure it did for others too.  Taking the time to write something about it makes it seem a lot less like we are children getting our candy taken away so we don't get cavities, if that makes any sense.

    @glum & quirk:  I've noticed a huge increase in the number of game show tickets I get from donating large items, but also noticed a huge increase in the number I get from harvesting my herb plots.  I haven't learned new skills in that area for a couple days now, not sure why there has been such a big increase.  For example, yesterday I got 3 from harvesting my herbs, and I don't think I've gotten a single one before yesterday.  Weird!
    Posted 14 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We love you too, Team. :( ...I miss Ajaya Bliss. No more teleporting there, caps on bonuses, no more real patterns... It was really fun and I don't see the people in there anywhere else. :( Regardless, thank you guys for your hard work. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Kyrem Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Kyrem, are you any relation to Xyrem?
    Posted 14 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
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