Topic

Mules

I have read here in the forums that it is against the TOS to have more than one account. I have never found a TOS to verify this. On FS I had many accounts , one or more for each holiday (since I gave them away as prizes) but they were all active accounts , at least part of the year. I did it for convenience since each was decorated for that holiday and because I needed that many friends lists (there was a 300 cap) for the contests and things. Many others had extra accounts called mules that they primarily used as a means to replay the game and goals over again and earn extra lux (FS version of currants) and would pass the earnings back to their main accounts. Others used their mules to plant hundreds of food trees in. Some, myself included (again for prizes), could earn extra holiday decorations because some of the non repeatable goals awarded those. Others did it for more fauna, some had an entire sphere/account for each species.

The thing is, I can't think of a viable reason to have a mule in Glitch. I myself can change my name for each holiday if I wished, I need not worry about my friends list overflowing (yet?) and since you don't earn objects as goal rewards and can't transfer XP or currants (ok you can if you are creative but ...) what I want to know is what is the point of having more than one account on Glitch ? It seems to me the only way to progress is through time spent and splitting the time between accounts isn't really helpful. 

Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • there is one incredibly viable reason for a mule.

    the free energy refuel each day.

    why buy food and eat if you can instead just switch avatars?

    skills still develop at the same rate after-all.

    when skills are set up sp that it is more difficult to learn after the first 10, just have each mule learn 10 each.
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The reason these second accounts are called "mules" is because they do what a mule would do: Carry things. Having several accounts would increase your inventory space, and that is important in all games where inventory space is limited.

    In Glitch I can see one important further use: "Teleportation" of items via auctions. Just "sell" auctions to yourself from the mule to the main and back at prices where other people won't buy, and you can have access to items anywhere without having to run around.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tobold Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Wait, I'm confused as to why there NEEDS to be a reason for mules.

    Isn't it a good thing that people don't have reason to abuse the system?
    Posted 20 months ago by Cupcake Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks stri. I myself still don't see an advantage to that personally,because I am somewhat trying to go up on the leaderboards and hold my second on Friendly and playing another account would not be conducive to that. I can see how another player who was not interested in those things could find those reasons appealing though.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • tobold, you can also set up a "Teleport Buddy" situation using a mule, greatly enhancing your mobility.

    http://glitch-strategy.com/wiki/Teleport_Buddy
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Divine~ .. it could be. use the secondary accounts to make money to buy items to give to your primary account to donate to shrines for a ton of XP.
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @cupcake - absolutely that is the reason behind this thread as I am aware of a few mules and us FSers have a mulish mentality. 
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stri ... I'm still missing something here, what reason would one have to use a different account to earn money in the same way you would earn it on the original account ? ...ah unless combined with the benefit of not needing to eat and such and the ability to move and store things via the auctions .... very complicated... 
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yes. wouldn't have to eat and you could transfer funds for free. xp could be almost totally funneled to the main account via mining, item transfer then donation.
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @cupcake - another "problem" FS had was that I could do everything I did with no paid accounts. I usually had 1 paid one out of approx 10 but I didn't need it. The marketplace was such that I could sell items for the lowest price and still (or perhaps because) make basically unlimited funds. 
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stri - I was wondering if they were going to apply a listing fee for the auctions , most games have them, and it seems it would deter this as well as prevent folks from storing their stuff in the auction by listing it for exorbitant prices.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • A second character is defo interesting to complete the skill tree and experience different sides of the game. Not only as a mule.

    I wouldn't like to create a second account though. I did that for Pet Society in the past (as I had created several characters in my Animal Crossing village), but it was kinda boring in the end. Having to do everything twice.

    It could be different with Glitch, as two characters with different skills wouldn't spend their day doing the same things.

    Stoot said once that multiple characters on the same account could be available someday, as a credits / subscription feature.
    So if it happens, and if I'm advanced enough with my first character, I'd really like to try it.
    Posted 20 months ago by Moumoushou Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Divine~ in a "mule" situation you wouldn't need to use auctions to send items between characters.

    just use the increased "teleport buddy" based mobility and do the trades in person.
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So basically the fact that the skill time increases with a wide variety/number of skills it actually encourages people to have multiple accounts because not too many people want to do the same thing all the time when there is such a variety of different things to do. What moumoushou is talking about , with the ability to have more than one avatar, provided it also gets the full energy and mood at the start of each day seems to be the only solution for this. But only if you have enough avatars to master each branch of the skill tree. And since you have to pay for it to get it , some people would still be inclined to do it for free with multiple accounts. There isn't really anyway to prevent that once the game goes live. Only takes a minute to set up a new e-mail addy so it seems having an incentive not to do it is the only way to eliminate the majority of that.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You're right stri, I forgot that mechanism was there. Also you can just allow your mule to enter your house and just drop it there. 
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • there are ways to mitigate against it when game goes live.

    getting rid of or significantly altering the "new day refill" would help. maybe making it so that the player can't get it on first login. they'd have to be active for, say, the 5 game hours leading up to the new day.


    i mean you could game that by having a ton of characters active all the time, but if they are all tied to the same IP address you can begin to suss out the cheaters.


    putting more limits on free accounts might also work.


    i'm sure the devs have thought about more and better ways to mitigate the in-game impacts of mules than i have.
    Posted 20 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stri - yes but they aren't here to talk to presently. I am pretty sure a way to prevent multiple accounts is an age old question in the game field but TS is especially creative and they have already designed in alot of things which at least make it a pain in the butt somewhat. I like your idea about having to be in the game for awhile before you get the New Day perks. Wouldn't like not getting them at all. 

    Another way to prevent multiple accounts, which also slows down banned players from reentry is through identity verification via credit/atm card but there has always been alot of controversy involving that method on games that have free accounts because it is considered discriminatory against players who don't have bank accounts. Seems to me that multiple choices of ways to validate that included as options not only bank cards but PayPal accounts as well as cell phones and home phone validation would eliminate that, surely the huge majority of people who can get online have one of those things.

    Edited to add: Also these different validation options can be used as alternate paying options , hence widening the range of players who can subscribe.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh, hey, I wanted to pop in with a note. I had badly been wanting to get myself another account (just to play less socially now and then and to see what the game might be like from a different skill path standpoint maybe), but I mentioned this to some longtime testers and they made one really good point. With 40,000 people on the waiting list, if I put a mule on the list then invite myself via another Facebook account, I'm taking away a testing spot from someone else. Course then I thought, maybe I better wait till live. And someone else in a forum provided a different viewpoint yet: A tester with two accounts might even be helpful because you could test bugs and things vs. your own accounts. So now I am befuddled on the topic! Think I'll hold off on inviting my backup character though until we get some dev feedback; I'd hate to think I was stepping on invitees' toes in some way....
    Posted 20 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's one way to think of it RM and your attitude is quite commendable. But when the game goes live the primary problems with multiple accounts are that they bog everything down. I think that was one of the problems FS had, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of accounts that never expired from inactive players combined with multiple accounts on active players that all had to be stored on the servers. Also the ability to have multiple accounts does not incentivise people to subscribe when one of the perks of subscribing is having multiple avatars. 

    I suppose having two accounts could be helpful during beta IF they were used to provide feedback as to how to make it even more of a pain to gain by doing it. I have had the thought that this whole topic may not help me gain popularity with some people. But we are here to help them make a viable and sustainable game, not to figure out how to cheat the system. Obviously thats not pointed at you RM.

    Edited to add: @RM . That's why noone on FS knew who I really was until I "came out" at the end. Cause my "real" account had no friends cause sometimes you just want to play. 

    Edited again to add: That can be fixed for the most part without a separate account by simply having an invisibility option.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep, yep, Divine~, good thoughts and I knew you weren't pointing at me re: cheating since I said I haven't gotten one in yet because of that feedback. Not sure "invisibility" would do for me or not...hmmm, though, interesting idea. I agree about that server clogging with inactive accounts, though I get the idea these guys have got far better prepared servers. Regarding subscribing, though: I freakin' love Glitch and would happily pay for two accounts. Happily. Interesting topic here...
    Posted 20 months ago by RM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • On the servers, it's not so much a matter of whether the servers can handle it, it's a matter of the cost of them and that cost being wasted, especially when such huge amounts of them are unused accounts. I think the wipes are cleaning off the majority of that junk now but when it's live I wonder if they are planning to implement a time period for inactive accounts, after which they would be deleted.  

    ETA:@RM- yeah you might have to change your attire or lack thereof to be a little less noticeable.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'll admit, I haven't given a huge amount of thought to mule accounts here on Glitch, but I can see a couple of things that would entice me to doing so.  RM mentioned an account where you can be less sociable; if it's allowed, that's one of the things that I might be inclined towards once the game goes live.  Now during testing, however, having a mule and being able to go through and poke at aspects of the game that we don't have access to any more would be one of the draws for me.  Namely, poking at the tutorial and how the recently adjusted skills affect game balance for new players.  (I did this in FS when they changed the tutorial there, too.)  I sort of wish we had a 'reset' button so that I could go right back to creation and poke at more basic things.  (Like examining how Better Learning affects skill learning now!  :P )

    Beyond those aspects, probably the greatest potential draw for me to have a mule account once the game goes live, and even then depending on how things develop it might not be much of a draw, would be the ability to have multiple homes; for example, having one in each region.  If we are given the ability to white list people and the ability to pick things up in other people's homes still exists, this *might* be useful a la added material drop off locations, garden plots, empty patches, etc.  I'm not sure mule account held real estate would be particularly useful, but the potential might be there.  If on the other hand, Glitch created a system in which we could personalise our homes and the landscaping around it though?  Ohhh yeah, I could definitely see a reason for having a mule account then.  (I do miss designing spheres.)
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @marebito - I like that reset idea, for the reasons you stated and also because I like to redo quests, especially when I have essentially run out of them, like now. 

    on Whitelists. Yes that would be a good reason NOT to have keys or whitelists. 


    on home decor - think they have already headed you off at the pass on that one as from my understanding strictly decorational items will cost credits not currants. They are after all not essential to game play. 


    on spheres , yep me too. My primary things on FS were the spheres, the forum contests, and the market to pay for it all. I didn't actually play the game that much.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also as much as I hate it, having a definitive line between real cash/credit items and game cash/currants is brilliant. You can't sell things that cost real money hence people like me can't earn all the credits they want (bux in FS) by simply selling things in the auction for them.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would be glad to pay for 2 accounts if I wanted a mule. I paid for many on FS and 2 for my nephews.  I did make a post on another thread that I would pay big bucks for a basement and a egg tree and possible other items that come with basements. Someone thought that would be unfair game advantage. I posted that if I couldn't buy it I could have it for free anyway (with a mule living in a place with egg tree).  Mainly I just want a stinking egg tree for cooking.
    Posted 20 months ago by Gruff McGruff Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot has mentioned previously in the forums that one benefit for subscribers will be multiple characters per account: beta.glitch.com/forum/gener... - this implies that multiple characters for a single player is not something that will generally be allowed down the road.
    Posted 20 months ago by katlazam Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Divine
    I have neither been cut off at the pass nor even come to a pass when it comes to home decor for Glitch.  Quite frankly, the possible incentive for mule creation a la home decorating is pure speculation at this point since we don't know what's there yet.  It doesn't exist.  If it's something that's made of 'teh awesome', then I don't see why people wouldn't be willing to pay for a second or third account; many people on FS had multiple paid accounts, too.  An example of something that would possibly entice me on that front would be if we were given the tools to landscape our homes into something much like the street designs are which is something that I've never seen mentioned as even a possibility.  So, as an enticement, it's way out in left field already.  Some people might go for the decorative items bit for their homes, but until I see what they come up with, I can't say for sure whether it would act as a potential lure for me to create mules or not.  

    As for mule account owned real-estate... this might be something worth exploring further next test.  Or rather either getting someone I trust to explore the full range of what they can do in my home, or my getting access to someone else's account to do so myself.  The concept of white listing has been brought up for other legitimate purposes, but nothing definitive has come up from that, so until there's a clear yea/nay on it, there too we're in the realm of speculation.  

    More to the point however, is the fact that there's no TOS/TOU for Glitch yet.  (At least I haven't been able to find one yet, and I have looked a few times now.)  Until that's revealed and Glitch takes a definitive stand on the mule account issue, I won't know whether I will ultimately go for a mule or not.  If it's against the TOS, I won't do it.  Also, when it comes to the concept of a reset function, Moumoushou mentioned the possibility of multiple characters on a single account as a paid feature.  Depending on that as yet unknown TOS, this could be further disincentive for mule creation.  Of course, if there's nothing in the TOS against mules, then multiple characters on a single account could work against the paid account (are you still restricted to the main chara's home for ex.) which could prompt freebie mule account creation instead.

    To be honest, not being able to create in-game real money currency a la auctions is pretty much a null issue for me personally.  Considering that you can recycle paid for items and recoup a percentage of the credits spent IMO makes the credit system very fair.  Yes, you have to put real world money into it to get access to paid items, but if the game itself is solid, and the perks to subscription are worthwhile, I don't see any reason not to pay a nominal sum for potentially many hours of entertainment per month.  It'll probably be far better value than a doughnut and double-double at the local Tims (and potentially less harmful to one's waistline, too.)

    ETA:  And katlazam's post and link suggests that mules will not be allowed in Glitch.  Apparently, I'm too verbose and take too long to type.  :P
    Posted 20 months ago by Marebito Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Resetting character progress would be an awesome thing. If I were to create a mule, I think it would be for that express purpose.
    Posted 20 months ago by MaryLiLamb Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @mare , perhaps a better choice of words would have been that they cut that off at the pass. I did not mean anything derogatory to you personally in my statement.
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Many games, paid and free, allow multiple personas per account and multiple accounts per household... others lock it down to 1 character per IP. My husband and I run into the multiple-account question with almost every game we play. Why? Because if we're going to spend leisure time on the computer, we'd like something we can do together. It does have a profound effect on where we spend our discretionary money and leisure time. We've run into all manner of restrictions, some have allowed us to play but never ever interact, which also causes us to seek enjoyment elsewhere.

    I *love* the beginnings of games. Half the fascination of paper and dice games, and then the early text-based MUDs was spending time rolling up a character, or spending hours in a character generator looking for that perfect set of numbers. With Glitch, it's the exploration of the early skills and quests. I'm notorious for starting a game over a dozen times, just because I want to see how different things work differently. I'd really enjoy a primary and secondary character, but I'm also waiting to see what the subscription offering shapes up to be before I decide to invest energy in a second Glitch.

    In the context of Glitch, if multiple accounts per household were banned (currently I see nothing indicating they are - especially when there are multiple human beings playing)... well, I'll probably continue the search for a game my household can enjoy individually and collectively. Most of the time, my husband is off doing other things... but on occasion we run into each other and spend an hour scraping barnacles or touring the new streets. Having that type of interaction sitting right next to me, I can tell you the potential for abuse is through the roof. We both noticed how easy it was for me to transfer, auction, and give items and money to him... take him on a walking tour of the streets while he walked the dogs or cooked dinner... So in the same token, I totally understand everyone's worries and fears. 

    I think part of the reason FS 'fell over' is because of the massive amounts of data storage and processing required to keep it operational. Part of that very well could have been the massive number of 'free' and 'dead' accounts. However.... this isn't Tiny Speck's first trip down the data-storage garden path. Surely managing millions of accounts on Flickr and the data load of the associated pictures taught the TS folks all sorts of magic joo-joo.

    There are good and bad reasons for every multi/non-multi argument out there, but ultimately it comes down to a business decision, usually based on technical reasons and game-play mechanics. We could argue every facet of every argument trying to predict the stance TS will take, or we can wait and see what gets offered. I'm in the camp of arguing about things *after* we have something to argue about.

    Editing to add: Multi-player games have always had this problem. When my sorority finally had the house wired and was providing internet, it was a nightmare playing EverQuest until someone finally got in touch with the company and explained that we were all real humans.... 17 of the 24 residents had accounts. They were fascinated (17 girls playing a MMORPG in the late-90's) so we got everyone in a photo with their computers and sent it to them. When my husband was still in 'bachelor mode' there were 5 WoW accounts between 7 people in a house. It's very, very difficult to set a hard line on multiple accounts/multiple characters.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • On the rhetorical nature, I feel since we are here to make suggestions, throw out ideas and give opinions in regard to whether or how we like this and that, that waiting until after the fact to shoot down changes and hence waste programming time for things people don't like is not the most efficient method personally. I mean at this point of development it is all rhetorical so based on that theory why should we say anything at all now....
    On the IP address method of avoiding multiples, besides the reasons you bring up in regard to there being legitimate reasons why there are multiple accounts running on the same IP, hell when I lived in Blue River the entire town used the same signal and ... uh ... I can get around that...
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The skill specialty thing would be my main reason to try using a mule.
    To experiment with different styles of game play based on developing a very narrow specialty on a given account, like learning ALL of the skills that lead down to engineering, tinkering and things like blockmaking, or trying the all gardening and soil path or the cooking path. And I suspect this idea will become even more interesting in the future as the skill tree expands.

    I would very much like to hear a dev weigh in on this before going ahead though. I'd rather not get banned for trying it.



    On the issue of why FS failed, I've mentioned before on FB that this probably has more to do with business models than the game itself.
    BFG is a company that buys games from very small game design firms, and buys game licenses from larger game companies like Pop Cap who do their own in-house development. Look at the rest of their line-up. None of that stuff requires hiring designers,coders, bug fixers, dedicated customer service, moderators, etc. Their other games are "boxed" and don't need to be fixed by someone on the payroll at 3am on a Saturday when players break them. This means they don't need to keep people on staff for those other games who get raises, offices or benefits. They can instead let small game design firms do the original work, and if a game does well they might buy a sequel. If not, they drop it.
    Basicly, the problem was that an essentially soulless corporation suddenly realized how much creating a community was costing them, and they ditched us. They've probably also fired the techs and mods and other personell as well.
    (Hey Stoot, might be worth checking out whether those folks are looking for work.)

    That's why I have hopes for Glitch.
    The business model here is founded on this MMO being the whole point of the company.
    Posted 20 months ago by Murri Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I hadn't really thought about it yet, as one acct is keeping me hoping, but later on I'm sure that would become a question.  If it is indeed against the Tos, then I would never create a mule.  Also, if a second Glitch was available on my main acct, again, I would not have a reason to create a mule and would be MORE than happy to pay for that privilege, so hopefully that would be something for the future.  I guess, right now, I just am glad to get to play and certainly wouldn't want to knock someone else out of a testing spot.  I tend to agree with Murri on the FS thing.  That's one of the things I find so refreshing here... Stoot and the team, walking around with us, asking questions, emailing about bug reports.  The hands on development is awesome and gives me a lot of confidence in Tiny Speck!  Thanks team!!!  :-)
    Posted 20 months ago by kat65 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Travinara: "When my sorority finally had the house wired and was providing internet, it was a nightmare playing EverQuest until someone finally got in touch with the company and explained that we were all real humans.... 17 of the 24 residents had accounts."
    I want to write this screenplay!
    Posted 20 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • On FS, though the things that Murri talked about in regard to FS not "being out of the box"  I am sure were part of the equation another huge factor in the equation was the bulkiness of the technology itself. At the time that Toby and Thinglefin developed the game it was state of the art and certainly more nimble than WOW but things change quickly in the tech world and 4 or 5 years is a Looong time in that regard. Glitch , along with being streamlined with screaming pixels and all has what you could call super tools for adding content and updating, which I STILL wanna play with !!!! but anyway ... For FS to add a new area or feature it took months of coding, they basically started from scratch everytime. Then they had to go offline to actually implement it. Basically it was a dinosaur where as Glitch is a Race Horse. And just for the record, the mods from FS were NOT fired. They are moding on the BFG Forums and doing customer service. Not sure what became of the devs though ...
    Posted 20 months ago by Divine~ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well put Divine. Everything I heard indicated that FS had a huge back-end mess. That said, what TS is doing with the in-stream updates... the live world generation... it's a whole new approach to gaming. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly things can be changed, updated, added, disabled, and deployed.... and most of the time we never even realize they've done it!

    @Bacon... no you don't. Too much late-teen estrogen in one place.... only the strong survive.
    Posted 20 months ago by Travinara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Too much late-teen estrogen in one place.... only the strong survive."
    What a great tagline for the movie!
    Posted 20 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Murri: Oh you are so right! FS became "unsustainable",  in spite of  thousands of subscribers and in spite of many, many players spending $100-$200-$300+ per month above their subscription rate. FS simply could not generate enough revenue to support the game. ts has the benefit of learning from their mistakes. 
    Posted 20 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The staff of TS has a great deal of experience in scaling up to a large international service with millions of users.  They've done it once before, become successful, sold the site to a large web company, and are now starting something entirely different with millions of dollars in backing from people who expect them to be at least as successful as that one.

    I suspect they probably aren't benefiting from FS's mistakes as much as the ones they themselves made in the previous project.
    Posted 20 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I suspect that the FS Devs are still there and working on Mobile which Lewbabes has stated is a new Goal at BFG, a move toward Mobile.   There are a large number of Devs at BFG.  I forget how many but it seems I read about maybe 100.  They, of course, work on in-house game development.  As the BFG Games Studio sometimes seems terribly slow (what became of the second half of the last Hidden Expedition game and where is the next Azada?) I have to wonder just what the Devs are doing.  Especially since FS, Big Sea and Treasure Quest are all history.

    Back to the topic.  I would like to have maybe two mules in order to have extra houses.  I am getting bored with having to move through the same locations over and over to get anywhere though the nearest sub station is not too far away.  I would like to play at least once without having to go to Adanac to get anywhere.  I also would be happy to have more storage space, more trees, and more garden plots.  I wish i had an egg plant but i do not want to live in the dark swamps and I don't want to give up my fruit tree either.  if I had one or two mule accounts I could have a change in scenery and avoid Adanac for a while.
    Posted 20 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Devine, Trav Wind: Thanks for peeling back another onion layer re the failure of FS and the probable success of Glitch. The dinosaur/race horse analogy helps me better understand the whole FS demise. 
    Posted 20 months ago by GreyGoose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The only thing we as custumers for Faunasphere were told, reason for closer was not enough resources.I just dug this up and if there will be free mules and players I am not so sure I agree.quote"Server Hardware cost and inc other things"

    IBM has some great hardware for many tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands!) of dollars. Let's Google this, and use cheap normal components. Let's again use the $500/box metric from above.

    Second Life has over 2000 servers. We'll use that, since you asked for Second Life as an example.

    2000 servers x $500 per server = $1 000 000. 00
    •Server Hardware Cost: $1 000 000. 00 *

    Hardware Cost: $1 009 000. 00

    Grand total: $1 459 000. 00

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is before you have marketing (zero to millions, depending), maintenance, or anything else. This is just development and the server hardware costs. If you want me to continue this analysis, please mention it in the comments.

    MMOs are expensive to make.
    I am willing to pay each month gladly to have not another shut down of a beautiful game.My opinion is that the owners are quite aware of cost and what not to allow.
    Posted 20 months ago by Jellybelly Baby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Somewhere in the forums a mod at FS mentioned that part of the thing they couldn't afford was the high-tech cooling system required for high powered servers. They actually have to keep the servers at cryogenic temperatures, which is not cheap. 

    Also, personally I think that part of the problem was that they spent closer to the "zero" end of the spectrum on advertising. From the multitude of articles and reviews coming out about Glitch, I don't think Tiny Speck will have the same problem.
    Posted 20 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I never heard of the game until the players started jumping to Glitch.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Tingly.  The development of Faunasphere as a browser based MMO began around 2005.  This was pretty cutting edge as I understand.  Most MMOs required the purchase and installation of software.  Faunasphere required no software purchase or download and it was FREE (although you could purchase special items or the ability to have greater numbers of Fauna).  Flash was the client which may have something to do with the closure.  In March 2009 Beta invites were sent out.  Many, but not all, of these invites went to members of the Big Fish Games community.  That is where many of us Refugees began.  We were at BFG, received Beta invites and became enchanted with the Fauna, excited about the Worlds and crazy for decorations.  We went along happily until the game went Live in August 2009.  At that time there was a large influx of new players.  Many of these folks came from other MMOs that included fighting, stealing, etc.  They had completely different mind sets to us Beta testers and what for us was some amount of unpleasantness began.  As the holidays approached and children got out of school, even more "rude" players joined us.  There were beggars everywhere and stalkers too.  At that point a number of Betas left the game.  Some changes in the game allowed for blocking which gave us some improvement but the Worlds had become crowded.  We continued on but in February 2011, we were all shocked to receive e-mail notices that the game was shutting down and we would lose the homes we had built and the Fauna we loved.  On March 15, 2011, the game closed.  We huddled at FB and cried.  Then we looked for another game.

    There are many games out there.  Some are good, some are great and some are just trifles.  We found several and (gasp) some of us (me included) actually began to play FB games (Save Me, Please!).  Then we discovered "Glitch".  I wondered what this game would be like so along with many others I signed up for the Alpha test and for queue jumping and got in the game just a week after FS closed.  I am now addicted yet again to a browser based MMO.  So, in a long story, that is where we came from and how we got here.  BTW, we brought a lot of FS with us.  Check out the pig names in Shimla (an inside joke).  When we speak of "spheres" we are refering to out homes in FS.  If we mention our "babies" we mean our Fauna.  When we beg for the ability to decorate our homes that is because sphere decorating was our second favorite activity after breeding and caring for Fauna.  If we refer to "Quests" as "Goals" that is straight from FS.  We have a large community here now and we have an edge because of it so watch out for us, we are everywhere!
    Posted 20 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The atmosphere changed here when the FS influx happened.  It is natural when a rush of already-connected people join over a very short time.  It must have been the same for the staff when they first opened up alpha testing to the GNE crowd.  You could detect a few ruffled feathers lately, mostly over 'unwritten rules.'  It never got that bad and is straightened out for the most part, now.
    Posted 20 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I hope that we have not made too much of a disruption.   I would like for us to fit in and contribute and I think that is what we are doing.  We are also playing often as a group but also as individuals.  We are used to playing this way and many of the features of "Glitch" are similar to those things and activities we had in FS so maybe we are less "lost" than some of the other players even though there are so many new (to us) features here.
    Posted 20 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ....blinks back brimming eyelids and asks, quite politely, is the changed atmosphere more or less amiable ?
    (The near tears are the result of nostalgic memories not bruised feelings, thankies Brib Annie)
    I would so jump on a second account, free or paid, for a change of pace, stratagy and material gains.
    Posted 20 months ago by Poney Tails Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The atmosphere changed here when the FS influx happened.  It is natural when a rush of already-connected people join over a very short time.


    I noticed that, too. I feel mostly like an overrun outsider here now, and it's less enjoyable to come play during tests. It's led me to consider what it's likely to be like once the game is open for real business, and I'm not sure how much of a regular I'm likely to be. Established groups of players aren't hostile in any way, but it's a lightweight "clique" sort of thing, everyone knows each other already and it's weird trying to insert oneself into an existing social group.


    There needs to be some way to generate real, new communities, and enable them to connect in real ways in the game. I *like* being part of a group in a large game; the guild or clan or whatever it was called in KoL (Kingdom of Loathing) served that connection-purpose for me for a while, but then people drifted away from the clan I was in and it seemed pretty close to impossible to work one's way into a new, already-established group. So I stopped playing KoL. I have no idea whether it will be that way with Glitch or not.
    Posted 20 months ago by Eleanor Rigby Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am thinking that the new community buildings may alieviate some of the estrangement that some players may feel.  You will probably able to join groups or guilds or whatever.  We welcome others to our Faunasphere Refugees group.  Not all members played FS.  You are also welcome to the Glitchodone Clinic group.  It was created by a Refugee but is a great place to go when you can't get in the door of "Glitch".  We have M&Ms!
    Posted 20 months ago by Brib Annie Subscriber! | Permalink
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