Topic

can we just settle this. family game or not?

i can't really find an official definition for what a family game is or not, but i mean, it's essentially the same as a 'family film' in regards to the use of language. so, while 'family game' doesn't have an objective definition (yet), 'family film' does. it's "a film genre that is designed to appeal to a variety of age groups and, thus, families." i think we all agree that the game appeals to many age groups. i suppose we could also agree that the game is PG-13 considering that a player must be 13 years or older to play (with parental consent). films typically are upgraded to PG-13 from PG when language is used sparingly (generally, less than 4 times) or the movie is especially violent. note that Glitch never uses language and is never violent, so the game really should be PG or even G. Certainly, it would be rated E for everyone with a disclaimer that they cannot control the content experienced online.  

ultimately though, the game has parallels with a family film that's rated PG-13. and as such, we shouldn't use language. 

thank you for your time.

(edit: ToS says 14 years or older, so I guess PG-14 would be more accurate.)

Posted 15 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Notice: PG-14 is called 14A in Canada, as we do not use the PG13 system but rather a "14A" and "18A" system (Persons under Insert Number Here years of age must be accompanied by an adult.)

    Canadian teens over 14 are allowed to watch "violence, coarse language and/or sexually suggestive scenes. (3) (Equivelent to the MPAA's high PG-13 and low R ratings.)" whenever they please, with or without parental consent.
    Canadian teens between 14 and 18 years of age may watch " explicit violence, frequent coarse language, sexual activity and/or horror. (4) (Equivelent to the MPAA's high R rating, and rarely NC-17 (but only for Bad Education))" if they are accompanied by an adult, or just look old enough, because nobody actually checks these things (primarily because the kid selling the ticket is often under 18 and would let you in even if he knew your age)

    Just meaning to show that the rating of "PG-14" or "14A" (which this site fits as that is the only age at which you are allowed to play) specifically allows for "coarse language", as well as "sexually suggestive scenes" which would easily translate to "sexually suggestive phrases".
    The frequency of coarse language bit has always been seen as silly, because if they can hear Fuck once, what difference does it make if they hear it 20 times? None, that's how much difference.

    -----

    "Yes, I celebrate "lewd" language, because I celebrate people exercising their freedom and their ability to not be fucking shit sheep"
    <3
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The ToS is CYA for TS. They enforce it if an underage player is brought to their attention, but it's impossible for them to easily detect such among thousands of players. It's NOT a family game as it has adult themes and suggestive language (drugs, alcohol, phallic jokes from the Wood Trees, cartoon nudity,...). This allows the developers a lot of liberty in development of the game. They have self-set limits and the adult issues aren't overwhelmingly gratuitous, but they ARE there. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Shit sheep"? That's a new one.

    I LIKE IT.

    Actually, wait. Are the people literally fucking "shit sheep" or are they "shit sheep" in a derogatory way? Questions, so many questions. AND this is why I love the freedom of speech we, as educated and responsible adults, have in this game.
    Posted 15 months ago by LitaPie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just wondering...
    Seriously not trolling here...
    What is the big deal about kids being exposed to curse words? What do you think is going to happen if, say, a 10-year-old sees the word 'fuck' on their screen?
    Can anyone really say they never heard that word until the stroke of midnight on their 18th birthday? Of course not. And did those of us who heard our parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, siblings, classmates, strangers on the street, characters in print, on tv, on movie screens, and at least 4 Presidents use 'those' words become crazed deviant perverts? (Excluding Mr. Dawgg of course. :o)
    For hundreds of years we've used these special words to communicate and be accepted by our human tribe. I love to pepper my speech with a choice and well-placed swear word now and then because I grew up hearing my father use those words at home and with his business acquaintances. Remember that episode of Seinfeld where George and the Texans spend a week joyously calling each other 'bastards' and 'sons of bitches?' That was my dad. And with those words as his tools he got results. He made friends, he closed deals, he made people laugh, shoot milk out of their noses, even excuse themselves from the table because they had pissed themselves. And I couldn't wait to grow up and start using those words, too.
    There's a lotta ways to be, so just let me plant this nugget-If you hear something you don't like maybe you aren't really listening.
     
    Posted 15 months ago by serfer0 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • To be completely honest... I plan on using "language" and i plan on using it quite a bit.
    Posted 15 months ago by Kev Kliner Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I tend to use language a lot when I communicate verbally.  
    Posted 15 months ago by Reba Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think the bigger danger is a kid over-dosing on an illegal drug or alcohol after playing Glitch, and then the game gets blamed for corrupting the child's mind with no-no powder and mixed drinks. You know someone will use Glitch as a scapegoat regardless of whether or not it actually was the source of the problem. Video games have been big scapegoats for all sorts of bad behavior for a very long time.
    Posted 15 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For kids (12 and under) may I recommend Moshi Monsters - it has a few similar elements & is being developed by a cool bunch of people in London. Disclaimer: some of these people are my friends.
    Posted 15 months ago by HerbertSherbert Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't know that everyone objects to supposedly adult language.
    The language almost exclusively comes up in group chats, which a small child might not even notice exist. I'm an adult and I didn't realize there was a global chat for a couple of tests, I was too enthralled with the game like any normal kid would be.

    I think the question is more about what the actual in-game things say, which amounts to sexual and drug related innuendo. Honestly, most kids don't even GET this stuff, which is why some kids movies are also funny for adults, but totally not traumatizing to children. Because they don't get it.

    There are definitely things in this game that I personally wouldn't want a small child repeating, which is why having a teens-or-older rule, as well as no real age verification system, so that mature 12+13 year olds can enjoy the game quietly as long as they're smart about it.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i have no fucking problem stating my fucking opinion in this fucking matter, i think that the fucking adults in each kids fucking house, should do their fucking job and know what the fuck their kid does or plays online. this is not a fucking family game and i don't fucking want to play with children. i'm not mad but it really fucking sounds like i am. and i wish i could've thought of a way to use shit sheep, cause i can't even read it without laughing.
    Posted 15 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I wonder if the "not for kids" label has been attached in hopes of reducing l33tspeak and textspeak?  In my experience with mmorpg's it's the kids, not the boring old adults, that use the more offensive language in thoughtless, ineffective ways.  

    *My* children, however, can spell ALL the curse words (British and American), use them grammatically, and for proper shocking effect (overuse dulls the edge).  Nyah!

    So, if a TOS-violating kid can be cool and literate and polite enough to fly under the radar, I say let 'em stay.  Them that irritates me are going to have to show age-verifying documents.  Problem solved!
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, now I have to go find Moshi Monsters.  Thanks, Herbert!
    Posted 15 months ago by Pallas Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Voluptua, thank you for that friendly suggestion!

    Cerulean, I can sympathize with what you're saying, and I might even be tempted do the same thing in some circumstances.

    In every forum I've seen where squeaky-clean language was enforced, I've seen cruelty and psychological abuse ignored and sometimes even rewarded by moderators, as long as it was done in polite language. In one forum my efforts to understand some people's feelings were constantly frustrated by moderators and other people pestering them about the way they were talking to me, even though I was volunteering for it. Respect was measured strictly by adherence to language protocols, regardless of how people actually viewed and treated each other. I hated that.

    I don't get offended just because somebody uses certain words. One of the people I worked with in landscaping used at least one word like that in every sentence. Seriously, every sentence, sometimes twice or more. I never felt offended in the least, because it looked totally innocent to me. It looked to me like he was totally unconscious of the possible offensiveness of those words. Most of the time I didn't even notice.

    If I understand you correctly, you are well aware that some people are offended by some of the words you use, and that's part of the reason that you use them. That's part of what makes it offensive to me. but I wouldn't want you to stop doing it for that reason, and that isn't what spoils the game for me. What spoils the game for me is to see fellowships revolving around it, where people are saying and doing things that they know are offensive to some people, just for fun, just for its own sake, just to be in on the fellowship.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • From a legal standpoint, TS has to cover their bases, and suggesting that the game is not suitable for kids under 14 is one base they are covering. However, as any parent knows, each child is different, and each child reaches a level of maturity at their individual pace. I think it's important to acknowledge that the main game base is a more mature audience, and consequently, much of what makes the game fun is the fact that those people tend to be more mature (age is semi-irrelevant in that statement). 

    Maturity is a funny thing, and it rarely ever corresponds with age, though we like to set hard and fast numbers around it. The idea that fourteen can be considered an age where Glitch is 100% appropriate is not entirely likely, but it's a good baseline.

    What Glitch probably shouldn't be is a place where censorship reigns supreme. When we become so cautious about what we say and who we say it to, the game stops being fun. There's a baseline that we as a community need to determine. To say that fourteen is or is not a good age can't set that baseline. It's a standard that we need to come together and agree on, and it won't happen through a dictation of what language is appropriate. It will happen through what we as a community decide is ok or not. 

    That happens in any community, offline or not. When someone goes too far, the subject gets changed, and the community as a whole decides not to pursue that line of conversation. It is up to us as community members to set the norms of what our online culture will be, and it is in flux now (and probably always will be). 

    Being part of a community also means compromising. I like saying fuck and shit and cunt-waffle, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that language has a place in Glitch. I might save that for purely workplace conversations instead. It's going to be defined by us as a group and as a team of people working together for the growth and development of Glitch as a social construct. 

    That's what makes the game fun, and that's what make it cool, beyond the already amazing development of the TS crew.
    Posted 15 months ago by Xev Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Pallas and coolbettycakes. Maybe I can find a way to add a link here to Insane Clown Posse's "99 Fuck" song. Funny as hell! (No, I can't find the damn thing, but I've heard it).
    Posted 15 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think you're talking about "Fuck the World" FF. Here's a video of them performing it live. ^_^
    Posted 15 months ago by LitaPie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep. That's the one. Thank's @LitaPie. :D
    Posted 15 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No, that song is just too angry for me.  I dont like angry music :(
    Posted 15 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I generally don't either, but their lyrics are quite often hilarious. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some people have mentioned the innuendos in the game. Actually, those innuendos do spoil the game for me, when I notice them. Ironically, the behavior that offends me, that other people call "adult" and "mature," looks childish and immature to me, like little children proud of themselves for saying bad words. In fact, it offends me to see people calling it "adult" and "mature"! I don't have anything against adults acting like children, in fact I think we all need to do that more. Maybe the reason it offends me to see people calling crude, rude and lewd language for its own sake "adult" and "mature" is because that adds to the social pressure for people to do it, and the intimidation against people who don't like it.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I don't feel that there is social pressure for me to swear whatsoever. And I don't feel intimidated by it either. I suppose I could be unique in feeling this, though.
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you are offended by an implication of sexual activity, that really isn't everyone else's problem.
    Sexual activity is a perfectly normal aspect of most adults' lives, and is not an activity children should be explicitly knowledgeable about, thus it is called "adult" or "mature" subject matter.

    If you feel that the implication of sex is inappropriate for you, the only real solution is to move onto a religious compound that agrees with you, and avoid places such as the internet which is literally full of sex, whether you are looking for it or not, and the "real world" where people make jokes or comments about sex approximately every second in anything resembling a metropolitan area.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would prefer that this game would be 17+ because I would not want to contribute to young people hearing or experiencing adult theme/s or adult language which may be confirming what they hear "in the streets" or on TV or experiencing as victim's, as appropriate. Our young Kids grow up to fast and have adult experiences that they are too immature to understand.  Personally I don't care what language other's use. If others want to use language that may be shocking to me, It is that person's right to speak as they are accustomed, as I decided to play this game. As long as it does not bring emotional pain or hurt another person, such as gender based for example. I believe that young people in the "long run" will be hurt by foul language and other things brought up in this game. I prefer they learn somewhere else not in Glitch. I believe young people are very impressionable.
    Posted 15 months ago by Joy Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why would you feel social pressure to swear. We're all adults here. Peer pressure is mostly a pre-teen/teen thing. 
    Personally, I find fuck a harsh word. It's not pleasing to the ears or the eyes. I prefer to get creative with my swears, like using older swears from the days of yore. I also like British swears. They are just so much fun. 
    But back to the point at hand. I have never ever felt pressured into using a swear word.. (unless I did something utterly stupid.. then yea) People can say whatever the hell they want. Its their game, their potty mouths. And if someone is truly offended, they will say something to the offender. 
    As for all the innuendoes in-game. It's mature and adult in the way that kids would never understand it. But IT"S BLOODY HILARIOUS, especially when the gnome wants to play with his pickle.
    I use mature in the other meaning, not the meaning that makes it the opposite of immature. 
    and that's my 2 cents. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Tenebrae Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Millie, I don't think you're unique in feeling that at all. I think it's very rare for anyone to be aware of their behavior being affected by social pressure and intimidation.

    I don't see the relevance. Are you saying that if you aren't aware of your behavior being affected by social pressure or intimidation, that proves that it isn't happening?
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would assume that if they had meant for there to be no foul language, there would have been a language filter put in place, or a warning system (anyone remember Habbo Hotel? "See a bobba? Call a hobba!").

    I'm not saying I'm going to run up and down the streets screaming profanity, but I also think that means that I don't need to censor myself a great deal. Leaving out a filter was intentional.
    Posted 15 months ago by Milk Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think so, Ferond. Please explain how I might be affected by social pressure and intimidation? I would genuinely like to know how this may be influencing my behavior.
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Biohazard, I'm wondering if you're serious. I have no problem at all with talking frankly and openly about sex, as a normal, natural and healthy part of life. Do you seriously think that's what this discussion is about?
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I strongly disagree about social pressure to swear.
    I could list the people I know who swear a lot, but I couldn't tell you if someone did not swear, as I wouldn't notice the absence.

    I do notice people who replace swear words with child-friendly words, since I find it ridiculous as the offense should be at the usage of any word, not the letters in a row which form them.
    Someone telling me I was a "Fudging can't" would be met with the same glare as one using the "adult" words, as the intention is still there, so one might as well use the words designated for that purpose.

    Saying the word "shit" isn't going to taint a child. If they were taught that the word "fuck" meant pencil, it wouldn't matter at all in the context of their tiny minds, only the reactions of those around them clue them in to the "offensiveness" of a word.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ferond:
    "Some people have mentioned the innuendos in the game. Actually, those innuendos do spoil the game for me, when I notice them."

    Innuendo in this context  means Sexual Innuendo (since that is what was being discussed edit and is also the primary form of innuendo in this game. The alcohol and drugs are not really innuendo, they are quite clear about their subject matter).
    If you are offended by Sexual Innuendo, as you stated that you were, then my statements were not inaccurate.

    If you were confusing the term Innuendo with the concept of swearing, then again, I made an argument based on the real meaning of the term, so while it doesn't apply to you, it was still valid in response to what was said.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Biohazard wrote: internet which is literally full of sex

    Just wanted to point out that the internet is not "literally full of sex". It is literally impossible for the internet to be "full" of anything.

    un-literal uses of the word "literal" and double negatives are my pet peeves.
    Posted 15 months ago by Skwid Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Lol Skwid I suppose so.
    I mostly mean that most websites out there which the general public has the ability to comment on will have sexual innuendo (or more) on it.

    Full in this context did not mean filled with physical things, or incapable of accepting more information, simply that it was abundant in a vast majority of the internet.
    (Full: Having a great deal or many )
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can honestly say that I have never seen anyone in chat be rude or offensive - Glitch has been nothing if not a friendly place to be.  Most people write in reasonable sentences and don't bully or beg or spam.  Those things would be much more troubling to me than the occasional swear word.  In real life I swear like a trooper (or trouper - the etymology is disputed) but I've found that the discourse in the game tends towards a different register.

    As to the original question - no, it's not a family game.  And while I don't want to seem unwelcoming, I do find it odd that someone who dislikes innuendo would gravitate towards a game with this sort of sense of humour.
    Posted 15 months ago by Cindy Electronium Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Joy, thank you for those thoughts.

    Biohazard, I agree with you about the uselessness of replacing swear words with child-friendly words with the same intent.

    Millie, I don't honestly know if it's affecting your behavior or not. I just don't think that not being aware of it is proof that it isn't happening. If you really, seriously want my ideas about how social pressure and intimidation might influence people to be rude and crude and lewd, I'll try to explain it, but I'd rather not try to do it a forum. I have never seen a forum where it's possible to have a sustained, purposeful discussion about anything. Maybe private messages on Facebook? Or else, I could just post my ideas about it publicly on my wall.

    I don't know how far I want to go with this. It isn't really clear to me why I'm discussing this here. It might be part of learning not to be intimidated myself.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Glitchy Santorum: n. [san-tor-um] The frothy mix of jellisacs and piggy plops that is sometimes the byproduct of too much grinding"

    Someone please sell me this printed on a t-shirt!

    +cerulean & serfer0
    Posted 15 months ago by coolbettycakes Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ya Stoot! Language and no children, none, zero, not now or in our future :) Plenty of children's sites available!
    Posted 15 months ago by Priscilla Parsley Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh wow, if you want a family game then go to Wally World and pick one up. If this turns into a "Family Game", I will hurl. We used to go to Vegas and it was not family games, had to be able to vote to play there and drink and curse. Then it got all "Family Oriented" and there were a lot of people dragging their kids around from casino to casino. I for one am not into having begging, un-supervised young, spoiled rotten, obnoxioux childred under a certain age (I mean the ones that have heard the word shit and such and not go run tell their mama's someone said something that hurt their feelings. I believe when you sign up it says no one under the age of 14 allowed. Seriously, how many 8 or 10 year olds have credit cards to get a subscription. I truly believe that the admins will have their hands full enough with the influx of childish adults alone ...children...
    Posted 15 months ago by celticlady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh..and Stoot, so ready to buy Glitch t-shirts.
    Posted 15 months ago by Priscilla Parsley Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Ferond I'll IM you if we're online/ingame at the same time then :p

    And also, to link back to the OP (sorry, Mr. Dawgg, for taking so long): No, I do not think Glitch is a family game.
    Posted 15 months ago by Millie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • (related to the thread, but not the current flow of conversation)

    I really want to set up an age experiment, where people of many ages are given accounts and then told not to discuss their family situation or age, and see who can guess correctly, if anyone.

    Of course, I don't know many people and thus could not present a full spectrum of ages/presumed maturity levels.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Biohazard, I still don't understand. You see sexual innuendo as frank, open discussion about sex as a normal, natural, healthy part of life?
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @celticlady

    Many people here have not used a credit card to place a subscription, and it is in no way required to enjoy the game, so I'm not sure why that is a part of your argument. I don't have available funds to buy a subscription, does that mean I should be excluded, as well as all of the adults who purposefully do not have credit cards as they disagree with them for moral or financial reasons?
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I actually didn't think of anything sexual when I was milking the butterflies.  I just thought it was inventive.  And massaging them with lotion, that makes sense too.  It prevents chafing.  Thanks for opening my eyes up people, and ruining the innocent joy I was experiencing while playing.
    Posted 15 months ago by Lucky Pierre Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cindy, I didn't see that as unwelcoming.

    First of all I didn't know about the innuendos when I started playing.

    Apart from that, there are some things I like about the game that I've never seen anywhere else.
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Ferond

    I see SEX as a normal part of adult life.
    I believe that discussing sex, either in a medical, personal, or humorous way is in no way offensive, and that if someone is offended by a tree implying that it has an erection, then they are not in fact comfortable with the topic of sex.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Why can't it? I mean, do I really want to know what kind of sex you had with your partner and whether or not you had it this week or even today? NO a RESOUNDING FUCK NO!
    But.. if we can titter behind our screens about playing with pickles and not get totally offended by said joke, how can this be a bad thing? 
    I think it's a bad thing that you can't chuckle or chortle about such a juvenile joke. We are playing a game where you can make silly jokes with other like minded people without having to censor yourself because there is a child in the room/street. 
    Posted 15 months ago by Tenebrae Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tene, you can't be serious!

    "Peer pressure is mostly a pre-teen/teen thing."
    Posted 15 months ago by Ferond Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Biohazard, calm down bad boy, I was speaking in general, I do not have a crystal ball to see what you do or don't have or want or need. I didn't point my comment at anyone, don't take it so personal.
    Posted 15 months ago by celticlady Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i've seen language in chat that i don't like. i prefer my language polite, but by the same token if i've stepped in some shit, i expect to call it what it is rather than use some cute children's substitute.

    this winter i had the misfortune of being in an environment where a sentence didn't seem complete unless it had the word "fuck" in it. i swear i heard a young man put it in one sentence seven times and i was hard pressed to reply without using it four times myself.

    it just loses its impact. and then what's the point?

    i have also seen sexual jokes that make me uncomfortable. i'm not against sex, or even sex jokes. it's like the difference between porn and bad porn.

    mostly i find the rough language and sex jokes to be childish and what comes to my mind is to wonder why they haven't graduated to something more, uh, smart.

    a lot of people confuse shocking or sexual with clever and cutting edge. when i see stuff i don't like, i simply close the chat window. unlike many people i see, however, i don't announce that i'm closing it.

    i just close it and come back later. i'm a grownup. if i don't like what i'm hearing, i change the channel.
    Posted 15 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @celtic

    You implied that if someone cannot buy a subscription that they should not be playing.
    That is offensive to a large amount of people.

    I'm not personally offended, I am showing you how what you have said is somewhat ignorant of people in a different situation than yourself, such as the poor, those with low credit scores, and millions of Muslims who (some of but not all, for specificity's sake) believe that participating in a transaction which includes charging interest is immoral.
    Posted 15 months ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
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