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#### Don't kill the subway!

When I discovered the Subway on Glitch I was ecstatic! I had to go to something called a Bureaucratic Hall and get my papers. It was the best feeling in the all of Ur, I felt unstoppable!
I always imagined that someday the subway map would look more like [this.] And I would get to watch that too evolve and grow, as a component of this ever evolving and growing game.
But now the Subway is going away, and I couldn't be more disappointed. I hope that this is not the last we see of public transportation, and that it is in fact being replaced with a more efficient mode of transportation. Perhaps this means that we are getting yet more areas to explore, and traversing the map will become yet more of a chore without teleportation.
I know changes are coming, and I'm ready for that. But please don't take public transportation away!
ETA: [Proof]

Posted 8 months ago by La Mariposa | Permalink

### Replies

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- Saaaaave the Subway!!!
  Posted 8 months ago by Dr.Maud, Obviously | Permalink
- +1 .... I would prefer the subway to stay, I dont use it A LOT but enough that I would miss it!
  Posted 8 months ago by BumbleBeez | Permalink
- WHAT?? Are they removing that too?? If the subway is going away then I think I'll quit.
  Posted 8 months ago by daniel5457 | Permalink
- The subway is going away?!?
  WAAAAHH, how will I ever get my subway badges?
  Posted 8 months ago by Squiggle-Squee | Permalink
- links [to where devs said it] or it didn't happen
  Posted 8 months ago by Boaz Jachin | Permalink
- http://www.glitch.com/forum/general/19791/
  Posted 8 months ago by daniel5457 | Permalink
- Please make a street named Zilliamsburg, with an apartment building, a mailbox, a subway station and a model home. Have the frogs live there as NPCs and start an art commune, complaining about every change since GNE ("I only eat berry bowls made with crop-grown strawberries"), and a subway car that doesn't go anywhere, but locks you in with buskers like Rubes and Crabs that won't let you leave until you pay them, with the subway visits still counting towards badges.
  Posted 8 months ago by Battersea | Permalink
- Stoot said it in global chat. A direct link would be impossible.
  But seriously people, ugh. The sky is not falling, chicken littles. We know the subway is going away, but we don't know WHY. It could be getting replaced with something more useful. Or teleport skills might be moved to upgrades so that the freedom to port around is something players get early on. Or any of a million other things that provide context for the decision, which we don't have.
  Once again, I really doubt there was a meeting just to toss around new ways to piss off players. And I, for one, would not want to leave something useless or next-to-useless on the servers using up resources just because a handful of vets will miss it.
  ETA: +1 to Battersea, and many lols were had
  Posted 8 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- Here's a screenshot of stoot saying it
  Posted 8 months ago by Glitch E | Permalink
- @Saucelah
  No one is saying that this was to piss players off - in fact if you read my topic description, I did note that there could be a very good reason for this change. Nonetheless, I am very sad to see such an awesome part of the game be abandoned. I'd rather see a subway redraw or rewiring than for it to be gone forever. Make trains better, don't kill them.
  @Battersea
  I agree that the subway isn't very fun, but they should make it that way, instead of saying "oh, well this kind of sucks, so let's get rid of it."
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Maybe something better is coming, and something "subway-ish" is going in its place (or a whole new kind of transportation all together - I have always dreamed of mounting beasts...) But in case that's not the case, I wanted my voice to be heard.
  ETA: Thanks Glitch E!
  Posted 8 months ago by La Mariposa | Permalink
- This afternoon, Subway Knomoar was caught and gunned down, after a 8-hour man hunt by the devs.
  Posted 8 months ago by Rook | Permalink
- If history is any indicator people bemoaning the end of the subway system will have ZERO effect on the devs decision to keep it. However, we have been waiting months for group halls so you have plenty of time to ride stop by stop for those badges.
  @Battersea- Add Helga drinking a tall can and talking about how she "liked Good Night Groddle till it went all corporate with the music box"and apathetic teddy bears that judge you, causing a loss of mood.
  Posted 8 months ago by TheBoyWhoCriedRook | Permalink
- @Saucelah maybe with you being level 60 it is useless to you and even being level 48 it is to me, but I remember being a nublet and how excited I was to get my papers and skip those longggg walks to anything and everything. When I got my first ride on the subway I was smiling ear to ear and thought and still think it was the coolest thing EVER!! My vote is please don't get rid of something so awesome as the subway!!
  Posted 8 months ago by PlumCrazy | Permalink
- But you're still asking for the trains to stay without knowing why they are planned to go.
  What if it's not about making the trains better but about making them completely irrelevant? What if keeping the trains sacrifices some other planned content? Would you prefer a rarely used public transportation system over something new without even knowing what the new thing would be?
  I'd give you that you're being reasonable about it, but you still started this thread despite another one already existing. And I don't find that motivation all that reasonable. And I'm cranky tonight and seriously tired of this community freaking out over every little statement and every little change. For one, it's an online game: they all change and evolve. For another, it's an online game that specifically went back to beta and offered full refunds because a lot of things were going to change, which just adds a whole crapload of ridiculousness to the "oh no don't change this" type of posts.
  Seriously, do you folks like that stoot talks to us? Then don't turn every sentence he writes into a panic attack. Eventually he'll decide being accessible to the community isn't worth the resulting damage control. As much as I appreciate the fact that stoot logs in and chats in game, if in some strange alternate universe he hired me to advise him on community management issues, my first piece of advice would be to ask him to delete himself from the live server. Because of threads like this.
  Posted 8 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- Saucelah - You've made your opinion clear. This is called a discussion for a reason - I understand if you are FOR the removal of the subway system, but writing 600 words on why it's silly that people are upset about it is not the forums are for.
  Posted 8 months ago by La Mariposa | Permalink
- @PlumCrazy: everything you said is true, and I remember it as well. But it all applied to a game that will only exist for about a week or two more. And waaaaaaay too many people seem to be incapable of understanding that when you imagine what the effect of a mechanic, or in this case removing a mechanic, will be, you have to know everything else about the game it will be removed from. We don't.
  We know that some skills will become upgrades. Is teleportation one? We don't know. We know that character upgrades will replace a lot of the things that used to come when we level. Will the option to "draw upgrade cards" be frequent or rare? We don't know.
  I could go on, but I hope people reading get the point -- we barely have a freaking clue what the game will be like two weeks from now never mind whenever they get around to removing subways.
  Posted 8 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- When the forums are full of people being ridiculously worried or upset about silly things, then the forums are definitely the place for writing 600 words, or 6000 for that matter, about why people are absurd for being upset.
  Besides, believe it or not, I have an audience that follows my forum posts, especially when I'm in a "mood." I wouldn't want to let them down.
  ETA: and apparently I have not made my opinion clear, as I'm not "for" removing the subways. I'm simply for not freaking out or attempting to change development plans when we do not know anything about the development plans, the reasoning behind them, or even basic info about how the game will play two weeks from now.
  Posted 8 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- That's right, you wouldn't want to let us down XD.
  Posted 8 months ago by Rook | Permalink
- *sigh*
  I'll still miss the subway. Whatever replaces it.
  Posted 8 months ago by Dr.Maud, Obviously | Permalink
- Is "I have an audience" the new "Im really popular on global"?
  Posted 8 months ago by TheBoyWhoCriedRook | Permalink
- Maybe subway should be a way to travel into some new region where you can't teleport because of electrical interference, something like inside of a volcano, and anytime you'd enter the volcano the subway would brake down (because of interference) and if you'd steer it right it would crash at very high speed into some volcano-monsters house and break his safe and billions upon billions of walloping big diamonds would fly all over the place but you wouldn't be able to pick them up because you died in a subway accident!
  I TP all the time but subways are cool!
  Posted 8 months ago by Electric Wizard | Permalink
- I never use the trains.. BUT if they were replaced with cool ass planes or riding some kind of awesome animal.. I'm all for it
  Posted 8 months ago by Jessenya | Permalink
- Regardless of what is planned for the subways, I'm just glad for the reminder that 1) they are there, and 2) there are badges to be had for repeatedly riding them.
  Next up: Let's start a rumor that Game of Crowns is disappearing. :)
  Edit: Also, I would love to smash a train into a volcano monster's house and get diamonds, Ama-gi!
  Posted 8 months ago by dm | Permalink
- We do not "know the subway is going away"; we know that removing the subway is in the plans for the future. This is a game in beta, people's thoughts and opinions are useful for devs to know.
  Remember the many threads on "herb-stealing" in the Community Gardens, which finally resulted in a small code change by devs to help herb planters and inconvenience the grabbers.
  I too enjoy the subways and their stations, which represent a substantial investment by TS in clever code and some amusing art. I too would like to see them stay if it is possible.
  Posted 8 months ago by Vocable | Permalink
- I would like if the trains stuck around. But I would loooooove the Zilliamsburg idea, so my +1 here goes to Battersea.
  Posted 8 months ago by katlazam | Permalink
- "...writing 600 words on why it's silly that people are upset about it is not the forums are for."
  No kidding. Forum rants used to be 2000 words, at least!
  This place is going to Hell.
  Posted 8 months ago by Sturminator 5 | Permalink
- If the Subway goes away, where will I stash my extra No-No?
  Ride the Groddle-Shimla Mirch Express! Be a part of histURy!
  Posted 8 months ago by MicklePickle | Permalink
- Meh keep em, don't keep em. I don't care which. Just as long as whatever changes don't suck, I'll still be here. Simple as that. And I did that with way less than 600 words.
  Posted 8 months ago by Fauxfire π | Permalink
- I still ride the subway when I have no TP scripts and am out of map teleports! Don't kill it!
  Posted 8 months ago by EmiB | Permalink
- Read the original post, it said:
  1) I'm disappointed the subway is going away
  2) If it goes away I hope it is replaced by something better
  There is no "chicken little" there. Trying to counter this argument by saying that it may be replaced by something better is silly - there is no argument to counter and the very point of the post was to say that they hope it is replaced by something better.
  I can understand reacting badly to the comment to the effect of "If subways go then I quit" but deciding to make lengthy inflammatory posts about it just refocuses the entire conversation on that point. That was one post.
  What's more, there are several sarcastic posts saying not to lose the subway, it makes me wonder how often those who are criticizing the "chicken littles" are actually criticizing others who were making fun of the "chicken littles" with misunderstood sarcasm to begin with. People don't like change and people complain about good changes, but this was a reasonable post calling for a continuation of public transit in Ur - stop chasing phantoms.
  Posted 8 months ago by Humbabella | Permalink
- PLEASE! KEEP THE SUBWAY, STOOT! WE ALL LOVE IT!
  Posted 8 months ago by FTW BACON!! | Permalink
- please save the subway. :)
  Posted 8 months ago by Baldiboo | Permalink
- Bet the subway would get used a lot more if there was a 'use subway' option for the GPS routing...
  Posted 8 months ago by Spong | Permalink
- I want to ride a fox then.
  Posted 8 months ago by Jessenya | Permalink
- Good idea! I rather not ride a Sloth though.
  Posted 8 months ago by FTW BACON!! | Permalink
- I still ride the subway regularly in game. I selected my current house just because it was close to a subway stop, so that if I was out in the world I could go a few streets to a station and effectively be home for 50c. You can craft and meditate on the subway so time spent there is not wasted. Even without static housing Ur is divided up into regions with their own character and resources and the subway will be needed to get from the gas fields of Kalavana to the new sloth lands. It is another part of the game that isn't broken, not one bit, so please leave it alone.
  We know the subway is going away, but we don't know WHY.
  Exactly. The idea that Stoot is "accessible" is crap. He drops little bomblets on us without any real meaningful explaination. "Subways are not long for this world" is not "talking to us", it is not a dialog of any sort. Not only that, but describing other peoples reasonably expressed opinions about such a statement as a 'panic attack' is offensive.
  Posted 8 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- Humbabella and WalruZ, I love you. Great posts!
  I tried asking him last night what he meant by that, and to please give us details. The sarcasm and rudeness in Global Chat went overboard to the point of becoming extremely offensive. Making fun of people is never a way to communicate in a small community.
  I will say that for myself, I love the subway. I try to walk through the world and ride the subway often. Teleporting is great for certain uses, but when I noticed how much of the world I was missing out on I started walking and riding the subway again. I will be sad to see it go. I would like it if Stoot would please let us know what he meant by that. Was it just to cause contention in Global Chat and the forums? If that was his goal, he succeeded.
  Posted 8 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- *sigh*
  It made me sad when I first heard about the subway leaving. I'm still sad and I almost want to pack up my sparkly and leave Ur all together.
  Please don't get rid of the subway? I'll love you forever if you don't :(
  Posted 8 months ago by Crrrystal | Permalink
- +2485438297349875 Humbabella and Walruz. There's absolutely no need for anyone to get all up on their high horse just because someone is expressing their personally feelings in a forum post.
  And, like Walruz, I too get frustrated with Stoot's obscurity. I understand that he can't go making grand statements about changes before they are finalized, but I sometimes wonder if he gives us cryptic hints because he likes to see us flail. He could at least respond to requests for further explanations with "I can't go into more detail because of [x reason], but don't worry."
  Posted 8 months ago by Aurora Dellaterra | Permalink
- Be offended all you like. It is a panic attack. It's an emotional reaction to a developer decision that emotion didn't enter into. It's exactly, exactly, exactly like the negative reaction to the changes in gravestone mechanics, which I said at the time was clearly done to free up resources for new content, was ignored by all the chicken littles declaring their anger and thoughts of quitting, and was proven right by the release of the hell bar and the sudden surge in popularity of going to Cebarkul to die. If people in those threads had their way, if Tiny Speck was dumb enough to completely crowdsource their game design to players that don't even have full information about the game's design, then we wouldn't have wine of the dead, hell bar, or Cebarkul death cults.
  Ok, stoot's not accessible. To you maybe. But I've had a couple of brief conversations with him, and I can't say the same about John Smedley. Bees! has posted on my blog, and I can't say that about anyone in charge of software engineering at any gaming company anywhere.
  Tiny Speck is not the only online game company. When you say they're not accessible, you mean compared to whom, exactly? The only gaming company I've ever encountered with this level of involvement in the player community was HitGrab, and they still didn't publicly play their own game, open up one-on-one conversations, or visit in game gatherings when invited.
  PS: I would seriously love to see a vid of Smedley playing EQII -- I've always suspected that man has never played a video game never mind one of his own SOE products.
  ETA: Yes, there's a reason. Two in fact. One, I know I have an audience that's reading, smiling, and nodding. Two, the more players turn offhand comments from stoot and other staff into full-blown grievances, the less of that interaction we are likely to have. I find those interactions more valuable by far than freaking out about the removal of a mechanic without knowing why, when, or how the decision was reached. If someone felt the need to start yet a third thread, this one in support of removing the subway, I'd be up in there too, pointing out they do not have enough information to support it.
  Posted 8 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- Who on earth is having "a panic attack"? Who is proposing that TS should "completely crowdsource their game design"?
  I believe it was Justice Holmes who once remarked, "Just because I say I like salt bathing, you should not infer that I wish to be pickled in brine."
  Posted 8 months ago by Vocable | Permalink
- Two, the more players turn offhand comments from stoot and other staff into full-blown grievances, the less of that interaction we are likely to have.
  Good. I'm not interested in offhand comments that carry no context or explanation.
  I find those interactions more valuable by far than freaking out about the removal of a mechanic without knowing why, when, or how the decision was reached. If someone felt the need to start yet a third thread, this one in support of removing the subway, I'd be up in there too, pointing out they do not have enough information to support it.
  Exactly. We do not have enough information. All we know is that "subways are not long for this world." As you said yourself, we don't know why, and we're not being told why, or even being given some reasonable ideas regarding why, and all I hear from you is that it might be better in the great by and by, somehow, someway. That's really not good enough and there's no good reason for it either. This is not National Defense we are talking about here.
  Your posts boil down to "You don't know anything, so shut up." That is why they are offensive.
  Posted 8 months ago by WalruZ | Permalink
- so your saying just because stoot said "subway is not long for this world" you think that might immediatly mean that the subway will be gone you no those words could mean the subway is too short and needs to go to more places
  Posted 8 months ago by Santa Clause | Permalink
- Personally, I am optimistic about the future, I embrace change and love when exciting new things crop up on Glitch. Learning that the subways are being left on the way-side is still rather disheartening. I'd be disheartened if any part of the game were abandon or removed. The picture I posted in the original post may be an over exaggeration (I never expected Ur's subterranean railway to look like Tokyo's) But the point stands that I sort of expected more trains - or physical trains that we can see move through Ur and we can see Ur move past us. Trains with routes that run like clockwork. Trains that can hold more than 3 people. Just better trains, not no trains.
  And of course we have no context, but that's kind of the point too. I'm not suggesting that any of the TS staff enjoy teasing us or jerking us around but that's how I feel I've been treated. I feel like we've all been treated that way, in this instance and in the past. We give them way more insight into OUR motivation for doing things and playing the game in certain ways than they give for their actions and changes.
  I don't want map oriented public transportation to go away, and I can't imagine many others do either.
  Posted 8 months ago by La Mariposa | Permalink
- +1 Merth. You are not alone in those feelings.
  Posted 8 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- Removing the subway badges along with the subway would be a very wise choice.
  Posted 8 months ago by LųĉĩđεşşΨ | Permalink
- … why hold a protest if you don't have any idea what you are protesting?
  But! Point taken: I will make more of an effort to avoid saying anything outside of formal channels :)
  Posted 8 months ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
- Next time you tease me, how about diner and a movie first? Besides, foreplay is only foreplay if there's postplay ;)
  ETA: I'm trying to be understanding - It's nice to hear hints from staff about what's to come, but this is just such a big thing! It came completely out of left field.
  Posted 8 months ago by La Mariposa | Permalink
- stoot, or just try to explain random one line sentences? People were asking questions in Global Chat and the forums, without one little drop of understanding what you meant, or were implying. This much contention should not be happening. People hang on your words, you are the CEO an owner of TS....it sucks, but its true.
  Posted 8 months ago by Innie✿, Obviously | Permalink
- Aw, I'll miss the subways. *runs to take pictures* But! I'm really, really excited to see what they are replaced with. stoot is right- why hold a protest if you don't have any idea what you are protesting?
  Posted 8 months ago by Fernstream | Permalink

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