Topic

Quod Me Nutrit, Me Destruit

What originally made me love this game so much is what is now driving me away. It seems like people can no longer say or post anything without being attacked. 

I thought I graduated from high school a few years ago, but it sure doesn't seem like it here....

Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • I do find that these forums get more heated than most I frequent. But I refuse to let it drive me away. 
    I think that maybe I've just got to learn not to respond to things where I know I'll start arguing. I'm attempting that today on one particular thread where I know I'd raise my blood pressure if I got involved.  It's hard though, as I'm just as opinionated as the next person.  
    I do think it's great that we have such strong characters around here though. Even if I don't agree with all of them. 
    I find it fascinating to see how different people behave in different situations, including myself. So I do learn a fair bit about human behaviour from being here. 

    I hope it doesn't drive you away. There are some wonderful people about, even if sometimes the not-so-wonderful ones stand out more due to being more vocal at times.  
    Still, you don't find gold unless you sift through some a bit of dirt :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ouch. Good point. I've noticed an absence of staff presence on the forums this weekend. I moderate my private forums and I know how important it can be for civility.  You would think ideally a group that is mostly older adults can avoid sniping. I've been trying to do what I can to help smooth things and encourage a friendly atmosphere, but I know I've had my share of faux pas too! (but you probably notice I don't complain when someone points it out to me either). The game is still fun when it's running and that seems to normally smooth things out. But this game is in beta still :( and it's things like this that let the devs know where they need to go to fix thing. Hang in there, girlfriend. If you check the threads I've been through much worse and I can assure you things can get get better even when things seem pretty bleak.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hearts @ you madam.

    We're having growing pains and are bored. We turn on each other and spin things. Post out of ego instead of intellect. You're right. We should be able to entertain opinion without taking it as a personal affront when differences occur.

    Knock the dust off me from time to time when you feel like you need to. I still clean up real nice. It just may be hidden.
    Posted 17 months ago by malo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • trying to format this in a way that will not be construed as sniping, but you know what else is a lot like high school?

    casually throwing around the word "homo" in hallway conversations.
    Posted 17 months ago by striatic Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for the encouragement :) you guys rock

    Striatic - I totally agree with you there. I don't agree with that at all....

    I mainly just meant it seems as if no one can say *anything* without arguments being started....and it sucks.

    I'm just waiting on someone to come along and call me a drama queen, just like in high school ;) (Joke was on them, my drama queen-ness paid for part of college...the bad attitudes they had, well, it's not earning them employee of the month at whatever job they're at this week...)
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I also find the usage of the word "Instigator" in the forum listings to be shockingly appropriate at times ;)

    (I had such an urge to say ironic, but I don't think that's the right word. My english professor scared me away from ever using the word again after her angry speech about how Alanis got the whole damn song wrong and messed up an entire generation...hahaha)
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hey! @striatic? Can you help me put out some of the fires over on another thread? I think you know the one. It's trying to drift into a regular flame war over there. I'm trying to play fireman over there but no one is manning the pumps. (Yes, I tried to use "fireperson" but I got tired of the spell checker correcting me. :p)
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol!  We had the angry Alanis speech in English class too xD

    I often think that the word Instigator encourages people to stir things up.  Maybe they should change it to something less inciting. 
    Posted 17 months ago by Ebil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hey, I finally got to feel like a true and proper Instigator today!  I feel more initiated than anything.  It's all good.

    @NutMeg:  I, too, have an irrational fear of the word "ironic".   And I, too, had that crippling fear hoisted upon me by an English professor irked at Alanis Morissette.
    Posted 17 months ago by Kipple Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can't deny that I am one of the most flagrant and flamboyant individuals on the forums.

    However, I genuinely believe that I have good reason to be as adamant as I am. When I was training as a social worker, I learned just how damaging even "little comments" or "jokes" can be. I've noticed that so few people are willing to take a stand for what's right and I really refuse to be part of the apathy. There are two reasons there is evil in this world: the antipathy that causes it, and the apathy that allows it. I genuinely cannot stand by silently and be okay with it.

    I'm sorry it's an inconvenience for others that I talk about egalitarianism, civil rights and equality SO MUCH. But it's so ingrained into who I am, and so vastly important to me... and I'm so extremely sensitive to it, that I am not sorry for the fact that I do it or am that way. I HAVE to call people out when they throw a joke that could potentially make someone feel oppressed. I HAVE to point out when something can be offensive or has a history of being used as a tool of oppression. The only time I think I've ever NOT done that is when people use the term "lame." And I feel guilty for that...

    But anyway, SOMEONE has to do it. I don't care if I have to be THAT GUY, but someone has to. MLK Jr. was THAT guy. Harvey Milk? Yeah, that guy. And no, I'm not trying to place myself among their ranks, but I must say that the giants that came before me left people like me with a responsibility to follow in their footsteps.

    And yes, I understand that I have too many times lacked diplomacy. But I get extremely hurt and enraged when I see people talk shit to me for being who I am, when I have dealt with that my ENTIRE life, and still deal with it to this day. My childhood was hell because others, including my mother, would tell me that fags deserve to die, or are worthless pieces of shit that are an abomination to humanity. So I'm sorry it comes out so volatile when I try to nip in the bud the kind of stupid shit that leads to that mentality and social idiocy.
    Posted 17 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cerulean- this was in no way directed at you, love.

    It's in general....
    Posted 17 months ago by NutMeg Botwin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I know, Nutmeg, I know. But I know that many others that see this thread will think of me and I wanted to really explain myself. I feel like, even in my personal life, a lot of people can't stand to be around me because they think I'm a buzzkill that always makes people feel like crap for saying what they say. I end up alone often because of it, but... I figure if I have the opportunity, at least here, to explain myself, maybe people will at least understand me better. It does make me angry when people hold it against me for being the way I am, but I sincerely just want to get along with everyone. I just feel the need to put other things before my "selfish" desires. :/
    Posted 17 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I feel like the tl;dr is far worse than the arguing. Albeit I like to expand perception which can lead to ruffling feathers.
    Posted 17 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You know what? I haven't a clue what people mean with "tl;dr". I think I should know it, but I just recall what it means at all. :s
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • too long; didnt read
    Posted 17 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Though Im sure its just the text size the forums uses that makes it appear so large, whenever I go into more popular threads its such a bore to read through all the text.
    Posted 17 months ago by Taylor Swift Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Apologies in advance to NutMeg for the hijack...

    Hey! @striatic? Can you help me put out some of the fires over on another thread? I think you know the one. It's trying to drift into a regular flame war over there. I'm trying to play fireman over there but no one is manning the pumps. (Yes, I tried to use "fireperson" but I got tired of the spell checker correcting me. :p) Posted 46 min ago by Fokian Fool | Permalink

    Hi Fokian Fool, I just wanted to bounce an idea off of you. Do you think that the act of putting out fires, so to speak, might be contributing to the very problem you're trying to solve? This is entirely hypothetical because I don't know which thread you're referring to (I haven't been too active on the forums for the past week or two), and is mostly based on general observations of heated threads here over the past few months. It seems like attempts to extinguish flames just end up fueling the fire, and as more people get involved in extinguishing attempts, more people get involved in flaming to counter the water. The thread ends up bloated with point/counter-point and just goes on and on. I can't help wondering if they wouldn't flame out on their own if left alone. The few people who remain in battle will eventually tire of it, but even if they don't (and more importantly), readers will quickly tire of reading it and just ignore the threads. Rallying people to maintain interest in a thread in order to try to manage a flame war  just increases attention and the number of people maintaining interest in it (and also brings to mind the question of the appropriateness of minimodding, but that's another topic). Most of the hostile people spoiling for a fight want the attention, nothing good comes from feeding and watering a troll.

    I realize this is just my opinion, so I'm interested to hear opinions from who feel like backing away from and/or ignoring flame wars is a detrimental approach.
    Posted 17 months ago by Eureka Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's just because the game is off and people get cranky ;)

    When the game is going, there is a lot less crankiness.

    It's for world peace!
    Posted 17 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eureka posted at the same time as me so I hadn't seen it. But, there is some wisdom in what she wrote: ignoring is sometimes the best practice (and often is, when things get all hot 'n' bothered). For all manner of "its", people usually, eventually get over it — and sometimes even forgive & forget.
    Posted 17 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 stoot.

    I'm guilty of posting there and "feeding the monster". but not because I'm cranky. It's because I'm incredibly bored right now.

    *hint hint*
    Posted 17 months ago by bored no more Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's the "Estrogen" thread. :) It's cooled down some. There's a few ruffled feathers I think but I think those will smooth out in time. And I do have a little practice at "firefighting". I simply used my question to encourage one of the people involved to redirect his attention to solving the problem he contributed to. I notice he tends to be very thoughtful and well spoken and I knew he could easily do it.. He just got his ire up like a lot of people and got carried away some. I did myself at first.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Eeeee! Game on for world peace! C'mon, little Glitchen, you help keep my wavering optimism less wavery!
    Posted 17 months ago by Jennyanydots Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I would buy that shirt: Play Glitch for World Peace!
    Posted 17 months ago by Rabid Marmot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @stoot

    I have to say that my part in this isn't because the game is off. If it would be your suggestion to just ignore it, meaning that the thread won't be closed, then I suppose that's what I'll have to do. But I also must say that a lot of what I had been talking about earlier (in terms of feeling unsafe) occurred in that thread. Is there a way to contact you about this, directly, and in private?
    Posted 17 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Cerulean, I just posted in the thread. I don't think it needs to be shut down.

    This is a very good cartoon!
    Posted 17 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • lol nice cartoon :)
    Posted 17 months ago by Phochai Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL @Stoot's cartoon!  Quite appropriate I'd say! ;-)
    Posted 17 months ago by ♥joby♥ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot: funny. but now you got me curious: were you alerted via bat-signal, or was it more of an ESP thing?
    Posted 17 months ago by bored no more Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Bored - I like the idea it was via bat signal!
    Stoot - lol that cartoon is so appropriate!
    Posted 17 months ago by BumbleBeez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • No bat signal — just constant connectivity ;)

    I read that thread on my phone and thought of posting, but then decided to eat dinner and watch some saved-up TV first because I'm supposed to be relaxing. And by the time I came back to post, it was a bit of a mess. Oh well!
    Posted 17 months ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • *gasp* no relaxing u should b hard at work taking down that closed sign! :)
    Although I for one appreciate all the hardwork everyone does at TS getting this game up & running & am so glad a friend had recomended I try it, bc Im well & truely addicted!
    Posted 17 months ago by BumbleBeez Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "This is a very good cartoon!"

    One of my all-time favourites - I have it on the wall next to my desk...
    Posted 17 months ago by dopiaza Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @NutMeg, every group has a number of thoughtful, creative, kind, peaceful members and a number of not-so-thoughtful etc. members. The difference between high school and Glitch is that the ratios are reversed!

    But yeah, the dogpile technique isn't pretty, no matter who is on the bottom.

    @Stoot, your interaction with your game's players is both charming and worrisome... don't let the squabbles take up too much of your valuable time! But thanks. You did good in there.
    Posted 17 months ago by Lilith Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nutmeg, you are such a drama queen! 

    I just had to say it since no one else had taken the bait, sorry. It's out of my system now! (For the record, I hold no negativity inside the term, so there's no ill will.)  More on topic, I try to ignore anyone posting personal attacks.  It's a little rough sometimes, but practice makes perfect and all that...

    re: xkcd -- I, in fact, cited that cartoon when my spouse asked me what I was doing instead of going to bed last night/this morning.
    Posted 17 months ago by Magic Monkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Actually, stoot, I didn't want to talk to you about what you should do about the thread. I wanted to ask you something important about account options... something I don't want to discuss openly on the forums. And I'm wondering if there's a way I can do so privately?
    Posted 17 months ago by Cerulean Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I can mingle into discussions very well too. And make posts too long because I need too many words to say the wrong thing. (I mean, then I'm still not saying what I want to say.)
    Anyway.
    1.) I'm curious
    2.) A bit addicted to internet, and Glitch is my new addiction. If game is down then me is on forums.
    3.) Can be a -how call a person who sticks his nose in other peoples business? who is curious? Well that kind of person. Sometimes. (Especially if game is down.)
    4.) I try to keep the peace, but usually (as Eureka said) end up arguing. I can even switch sides in a thread seemingly unnoticed (Magic Monkey might know what I mean). I am not sure people noticed I was pro and against the same thing. I can't choose.
    5.) I can't choose / change my mind if someone made good arguments. I see both sides.
    6.) I feel the need to explain myself too much. Which might be good, because I think many posts of mine will be skipped because they're too long. I fast-read (or skip read? Glanceread?) long posts as well, but then again I do it myself. "If something annoys you about a person, there's a big chance you do it yourself too".
    7.) I'm a bit egocentric I think? I talk lots about myself, and ask less questions to otheres.

    Ok now not about me:
    Heated discussions can be fine. Dividing can also create unison - I mean, if there are a few bad guys/girls the rest of the community feels closer to eachother. Not saying there should be bad guys/girls, but it reminds us and lets us find out what our common values are. It reminds us what "good" behaviour is, and that we should be glad that there is so much good behaviour and not so much bad.

    --Ending the post now, before it's too long again--
    Posted 17 months ago by Miriamele Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Miriamele, I totally identified with everything you wrote in your post, so thanks for putting it out there!
    Posted 17 months ago by Nanookie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 Miriamele. Pretty darn close to me.
    Posted 17 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have no problem with conflict or disagreement.  I chose a career that includes many people who argue professionally. 

    BUT

    Where I draw the line is disrespect.  Disrespect for groups, disrespect for individuals, and disrespect for thoughts, ideas, ideals, and feelings.  There are at least two key warning signs that trigger the GRRR in me*

    1. Namecalling, with extra badness points if the names come packaged to indicate that the person being denigrated represents a group the speaker finds worthy of contempt (e.g. "Drama Queen" "Homo" "Little Girl"), which leads us to...

    2. Othering - essentially saying "'Those people' [fill in speaker's value for whatever allegedly separates these human beings from speaker] are all 'something' [again fill in the value for something despised - it can run the gamut]."  This tactic enables the speaker to distance themselves from whatever it is they are frightened of/repelled by/angry at/etc.  And the more distance you get, the less human "Those people" appear to be to the speaker.  Which enables the speaker to treat that group even more badly... this is a very, very bad sign of future behavior in a deteriorating vein.

    *And the inevitable jasbo asterisk.  Here's the hard part.  Responding without responding in kind.  If you think the person is having a lapse and is just so angry they can't see straight and is flinging plop against the wall without regard for the consequences just NOW, that's one thing.  I will, sometimes, if I am invested enough either in the speaker or the situation, to calmly try to talk them down off that Laroo Ledge and see if they can see how their reaction doesn't help the situation or their case.  

    But if I see a pattern of this sort of behavior or if this is my introduction to the speaker?  I have a really hard time believing that they are arguing in good faith.  Which still doesn't mean I respond in kind.  But it's likely I won't have any dealings with that person in the future.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Hooray for xkcd!

    The good news is that once the game launches, we'll be far too busy playing to worry about some ninny in the forums.  In the mean time, it's pretty easy to just move on to the next thread, or close the window, or shut down the computer entirely, and go play croquet or something.  We'll have plenty of time to sit on our butts while we're testing.
    Posted 17 months ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • shut down my computer? go be active? nooooooooo
    Posted 17 months ago by bored no more Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @jasbo - Check out this link on the third point: The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If I'm bored I make mischief. 

    So I will apologize in advance for being ridiculous, random, obnoxious, obtuse, completely nonsensical and wholly irrelephant.

    Amokily Yours,

    gg
    Posted 17 months ago by g33kgurrl Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Stoot, Great cartoon thanks for sharing!
    @ Folkian, I appreciate the enlightenment of the thread reference, I was totally lost

    I am finding it interesting that when I first glanced at the thread regarding "estrogen" my reaction was negative...so I chose not to read the thread.  From what I am reading here, I probably would have gotten my dander up.  Seems like an good example  that "ignoring is sometimes the best practice."
    Posted 17 months ago by Sugar Plum Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks Fok - that's along the lines of my thinking, but I admit I'm not as forgiving as that method seems to be.  I won't attack someone for being toxic, but I will avoid them.  I don't consider it my place, my business, or within my power to try to actively empathize with everyone.
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @jasbo: "othering." I'm stealing that.
    Posted 17 months ago by emdot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You don't really have to be forgiving, you just have to consider your words more carefully.
    There is something called called "positive transference" and I'm referring to the definition given in Yochelson & Samenow's The Criminal Personality - Volume 1 (I'm going from memory and adding elements from my own working models).
    It has three components:
    1. Listening - Carefully paying attention to what is being said by the other party giving full regard to the words used and the order they are placed.
    2. Critical Thought - Carefully examine your own beliefs about what is being said as well as the statements themselves. Check for logical fallacies and other thinking errors.
    3. Expression - Respond in a manner that avoids reference to yourself or any other party as much as possible. Reconstruct questions as statements reflecting any personal concerns except for common ones ("what is your name, age..."). Absolutely never demand that the other party justify any actions by using "Why?", "How come?"  or similar interrogatives.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fok - do you mean "you" as in me, or "you" as in people generally?
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • People in general. That's why I didn't identify any person in my statement, but I was responding to your thread.
    Posted 17 months ago by Fokian Fool Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Just checking.

    That's why I changed all instances of "you" in my longish post above to "speaker."
    Posted 17 months ago by jasbo Subscriber! | Permalink