Topic

Why are you throwing away money? Auction smart!

Disclaimer: There are many ways to play the game, and one may be to provide things to the community as a whole at a discount. That's admirable, though annoying to me insofar as it limits the emergence of an interesting market. But I wouldn't tell people not to do so or that they're bad for doing so.

However: I don't think that the majority of people are that altruistic. Yet when looking on the auctions, it's frankly surprising the vast amount of items sold at a pure loss. The purpose of this topic is to provide information so that if you don't want to give away profit, you can avoid the same mistake!

The often overlooked downside to the auctions is the listing and commission fees. Altogether those cost a total of 9.5% of the listing price if the item sells (Let's hope!). But what this means is when you see that your items are going for a nice 200currents each, you're not actually getting 200currents each!

Now the main alternative to selling to players through the auction house is selling to in-game vendors. Unfortunately this means the items poof away - but don't fret! You're actually helping the economy by sinking some of the vast amount of resources that people produce! It's good for everyone! When selling to vendors, the only real choice is whether you hike to a Tool Vendor or not - these guys, one in Cebarkul in Uralia and one all the way in the Ilmenskie mines, buy items for 80% of their listed value. Good deal!

So, if you know that no matter what, you can get 80% of the listed value, what does that mean to you in terms of auctions? First thought would be hey - if I'm selling for over 80% that's a good deal. But no! Remember those fees we talked about! In fact, if you're selling for anything under about 88.4% you are getting less money than if you had just sold it to Mr. Tooly.

(Math break! Finding the breakeven point, let's assume a 100c item:
90.5% * aucprice = 80% * 100
aucprice = 88.39779 currents - sell above that and make money, sell below and lose)

Now look at the auction house. Look at awesome stew. There are over 200 stews priced under the 176.8 breakeven point! Some way way under! There's >50 Earthshakers under the breakeven point! >150 no-no powders under! I bring all of these up because they're some items that are bought and sold a lot. Please note that it's not worth buying and trying to resell these yourself, but you don't want to fall into the trap of undercutting them further!

So next time you go to sell something, this is all you have to remember:
Value * .884 = Minimum Auction Price

If people are already selling under that price in large numbers... Take a hike to Mr. Tool Vendor. :)

Posted 14 months ago by Abby Smalls Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

Previous 1 2
  • *like*
    Posted 14 months ago by Vicereine Linnæa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Since money is easy to make for those who know how. Would't you consider the discounted goods, whether it's because of kindness or ignorance, a nice way of helping those who play very leisurely?

    Your information will probably save people hundreds of thousands in the long run. But for a game like this, is it really necessary?

    I appreciate your post though, it was helpful!
    Posted 14 months ago by Kishido Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This post is awesome, but it ignores several other valuable resources, most importantly are time & space.  It takes a LOT of time to travel to tool vendors to unload stuff at 80% and until you do you are using up a LOT of space in your inventory.

    Redo the math with the 70% that is far more practical for people to claim.  I sell a lot of stuff to regular vendors even though I know I could get more at a tool vendor.  And when you factor in the opportunity cost of travel (or teleportation/subway) it's not perfectly clear to me that I'm making a bad business decision.

    Edit:  I did the math for regular vendors:  Put item on sale at 77.4% of street price to break even.  That's 154.8c for an Awesome Stew.  Most sell for above this.  The going rate seems to be 12 for 2000c which is 166.7c each.
    Posted 14 months ago by Issek of the Jug Subscriber! | Permalink
  • And WHY is money so important? Space is more important to me, there's not a lot of money sinks in the game, unless you go looking for them.
    Posted 14 months ago by Demetra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The only way to sell things 'at a loss' is if you bought them at the higher price and then resold them.  Anything that you created or harvested, you can sell at a price of a single currant and it is not 'selling at a loss.'  Unless you sell it for less than you paid for ingredients  you used to create it, of course.

    As a previous commenter said, money isn't that important in Glitch.  Once you have the house that you want and the equipment you need, currants are just a number.  It isn't 'winning' to have that particular number be really big.  Unless you choose to make that your goal, which we are all free to do.  We all get to be winners in our own minds here.  We play Glitch, after all!
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • In this case "at a loss" means "you didn't get as much money as you could have from the vendor."

    ...And teleporting to a tool vendor takes almost no time at all.
    Posted 14 months ago by Vicereine Linnæa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Also, if you're crafting anything, you're selling at a loss compared to the cash you can make by selling raw materials.

    So stop crafting and selling goods! Why are you throwing away your money?
    Posted 14 months ago by Hopkins Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The interesting thing is, when you sell to a vendor, the item leaves the economy.  So, in some respects, auctioning, while not as profitable, does benefit your fellow Glitchen.
    Posted 14 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am hoping that as the economy shifts more and more to a player driven economy, the amount vendors are will to buy stuff drops significantly (like down to 50%). But it will be a process will be a gradual one, I imagine. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Lord Bacon-o Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Some responses:

    First of all, this topic is not in any way meant as an attack or judgment on any style of play! If you want to sell your items for pennies or for millions, that's up to you, and you are free to play in any way that you want.

    The point of this topic is to provide information to people. When someone makes 100 bowls of awesome stew in a go and puts it on the auction house, it's not unreasonable to assume they did so because they want money - awesome stew is something you kind of have to go out of your way to gather the ingredients to make. So then, I just want people to be aware of what they're really getting. You can be pedantic about 'at a loss' or whatever, but ultimately, I think people are selling for less than it would be to the tool vendor without even realizing it, and if they know the real numbers it may be worthwhile to consider going to the tool vendor or not. If it's still more worth it to you to get that junk out of your inventory, go for it! I just want to inform, not dictate play!

    @Demetra - Currents aren't the goal of the game. To you. They're not to me either. They may be for someone else. They are still very important to me, and a resource I care about, as several of the goals I am working towards in-game either depend or are eased by having currents. See, I'm free to enjoy the game my way too. And I expect that to many players, currents are also important, whether for the 50k house they're saving up, or to buy that full set of cubimals, or just to yeah, have that big number.

    @Hopkins - Your statement is false. There are several cases in the game that you can literally buy every component, craft the items, then resell for more even directly to Tooly. I know because I've done this, specifically on expensive grilled cheeses. I don't know if that's still the case as the market changes, but there are opportunities for those looking for them.

    @Crashtestpilot - See, I'd disagree. I think the mass glut of items is ultimately quite bad in terms of preventing an interesting marketplace from occurring... but it's an argument that I don't know that I want to make right now because I know that people see this topic in different ways. Permit me a small example though: This topic came up because I had made a bunch of awesome stew and was going to look to find some people to sell it to @170 - less than the breakeven point, but without auction fees not a bad deal. But since the items are so unfortunately low on the market, it's more worthwhile to just vendor them. Now this is all my choice - I could also choose to give them away. I just don't want to do that specifically.
    Posted 14 months ago by Abby Smalls Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes...I totally understand what your saying but..
    Gaaah! You're turning my game into homework. If I wanted to do that, I have real world homework to do
    Posted 14 months ago by r0gu3 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Great, informative post that gives people something to think about when they want to consider selling things on the auction. It's also nice that Issek calculated the percentage for the regular vendors as well. It gives people an idea of what they might try to aim for depending on what they desire to get out of selling anything, either through auctions or to vendors.
    Posted 14 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I am auction-disabled.  LOL
    I never sell anything at auction, because I don't know how to make it work out for me and when I buy from the auction, I just click on the first one that comes up, because it's the lowest price (I think).  

    When I first started the game, I sold a couple of keys at auction.  I figured, they didn't cost me anything so it was pure profit & I just wanted to try the auction feature.  I didn't realize at that time that some keys are rare and some aren't.  My keys always sold right away, even though they were not the "good" keys.
    Now that there is a key market, I don't even do that anymore.  I have a bag full of keys that I will never use and I don't know what to do with them.  None of them are the coveted key.

    I would rather be able to put in orders, which has been suggested many times on the boards.  That feature would be more appealing to me than the current auction system...which of course, isn't really an auction.  :-)
    Posted 14 months ago by Poppy of Detwoit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Abby:
    You write: "See, I'd disagree. I think the mass glut of items is ultimately quite bad in terms of preventing an interesting marketplace from occurring."

    It's supply and demand.  The "interesting" marketplace you want is one in which you're well compensated.  But there's too much supply in proportion to demand, which forces prices downward.

    I agree with you in one respect: I'd like to make more currants, too.  Therefore what you propose (remove items from game) makes sense (reduce supply to buoy price).

    OTOH, the low prices make it quite good from the perspective of those who want to make higher value added items; IE, I can buy ore on the market cheaply, tong it, and turn that product around. Ditto with many foodstuffs, herbs, and such.

    So, the low low prices of oversupply means it's a buyers market, not a sellers.  It's all a matter of perspective.
    Posted 14 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • pickachu casts math!

    you fall asleep...ZZzzz......

    ;p
    Posted 14 months ago by Anodine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • There are lemburgers selling for less than 100c. It's kind of sad actually.
    Posted 14 months ago by Kayha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • As previously stated by me in another post...math makes me cry.  :-p
    Posted 14 months ago by Poppy of Detwoit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL Anodine! Love that one!
    *ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE*
    ..but yeah...so long as i still make some profit in the end. Got a nice 50k home in a short bit of playing (imo). and still several k to spare *shrugs*
    Most important thing to me is to just have fun. 
    Posted 14 months ago by r0gu3 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yep, I wanted to simplify the math for you. You'll still have to break out a calculator, but all you have to do is:
    Value X .884
    and then bam! Just try to sell for more than that number when auctioning.
    Posted 14 months ago by Abby Smalls Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This topic keeps coming up over and over and while I totally agree with the first post, due to difference in playing styles and understandings nothing will change unless the auction is changed to an actual auction in which the value of an item is determined by bidding.

    As far as selling at a loss to help new people, in my opinion this only helps to hurt new people.  One if someone is selling at a loss then that means there is already a supply.  No supply, no items for sale, nothing being sold for a loss.  With a healty game economy you won't have a lack of supplies either, if no one is selling a particular item then people will shift to supplying it as at first they can determine their own prices and as more people move into that area (as it is profitable) the prices will come down. 

    When I and others first started we made money and succeeded by selling on the market as we didn't have any or very little money to buy off the auction.  For a new player it is far easier to farm supplies and sell to get forward.  Granted that's not everyone's playing style but selling at a loss hurts this style and having a sound game economy doesn't really hurt any playing style.

    There are many different playing styles for this game due to it being open natured which is obvious a good thing.  And many play for escapism and don't get competitive and there for don't care about the game economy (especially when the real economy is something that many want to escape from, myself included).  Unfortunately this also hurts players who are interested in crafting and gathering and are looking for a metric of success or at least to gain some compensation for their time doing so.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think many players just aren't taking a close look at the cost and profit. They under bid others just to sell their wares without realizing that they're taking a loss. I did this when I first sold something at auction, but I've learned since then!
    Posted 14 months ago by le beebs Subscriber! | Permalink
  • ...And teleporting to a tool vendor takes almost no time at all.

    True only if you are a subscriber and have plenty of tokens.  For everyone else it might not take time, but it will take energy to teleport to a tool vendor.  Also factor in teleporting back to get back to what you were doing before you filled up.   
    Posted 14 months ago by Issek of the Jug Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh dont get me wrong abby, i respect what you "number crunchers" do:) if it wasnt for various number crunchers in wow over the years i would of sucked much worse that i  do;p

    Its just im old, and frankly, cba to get out a calculator and work out if im losing money or not;p
    if i am, c'est la vie:) im having fun looking after my piggies and tree/plants, and selling my wares to whatever glitch needs it:)
    Posted 14 months ago by Anodine Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree, and would like to point out to those concerned that if you wander down to level 4 west and hang out at the tool vendor, you'll see at least a few people who have auction snipers running and are reselling the frog-borne goods to the vendor.  
    Posted 14 months ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Thanks for this post, Abby! I appreciate that you've done the math, and made me more aware of what I am getting (or not getting) from the auction system. I am one of those who is usually clearing space, not overly concerned with big profit, so I usually price mine just slightly over the lowest current price.

    I also really appreciate that you have treated this as a "fully-informed auctioneer" post. Not telling people what to do, but making sure we have some important information to help us decide whether we want to change the way we're pricing items.

    Admittedly, I read this post expecting to be upset with someone trying to dictate how I should price my auction items. I was very pleased with the tone of your post, and knew I would be as soon as I read your disclaimer. Great job! I hope you'll share other information/insights in the future.
    Posted 14 months ago by kastlin Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Slightly off topic, but do different vendors offer different prices?  I imagine SOMEone knows.
    Posted 14 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Crash, I'm pretty sure Tool Vendors offer 80% and all other vendors do 70%.
    Posted 14 months ago by Abby Smalls Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Most vendors buy for 70% of street price (the price listed in the info dialog)
    Tool vendors buy for 80% of street price.

    You can find Tool vendors in Ilmenskie Caverns and Uralia

    Edit: Abby beat me
    Posted 14 months ago by Issek of the Jug Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Tool vendors pay 80% of the value of the item where most other vendors only pay 70% (I think mining vendors pay even less for ore).  As far as teleporting goes, it only requires token if you don't establish it as a teleport point.  If you're going to be selling a lot it may be in your interest to do so.  At teleport 1 you get one location, 2 gets two, 3 is three, 4 and higher you get free daily teleports plus the three locations you set up.

    Edit: took too long to type was beaten twice.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mithax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Parrow Gnolle, you are sadly mistaken when you say you can sell something harvested at 1 currant and still make a profit.  That item didn't fall from the sky.  You expended energy to harvest it.  Energy is a currency, my friend.  That item has a cost associated with it from the moment you spent that bit of energy to harvest it.

    And to the people saying money is meaningless in Glitch, do not confuse determining worth with greed.  Everything has a cost and a value.  Some of us wish to receive fair price.  That's not the same as hoarding a virtual currency that has no significant purpose in the game.  You should be able to make that distinction before spewing out your good samaritan diatribes.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • a few things: 
    1. you don't need to be a subscriber to teleport -- only map teleports cost tokens   

    2.  It is often easier for me to sell at auction rather than log in to the game and make my way to a vendor, with or without a teleport.  

    3.  When I am auctioning many items, I am willing to take a small loss on a stack of awesome stew just to take care of everything at once.  There are several things I sell that are quite profitable, so the difference is often negligible.   I frequently put awesome stews up at the going rate, less than what I'd get from vendors, but I'm doing so while putting perhaps a dozen or two other items or stacks at auction.  Sorry, it's just less time consuming.  

    4.  On the other hand, charitable do-gooders are often not doing any good.  Newer players will not look at the full listing and will just price under the lowest -- I have watched this cut the price of an item in half, well below the cost of the components never mind the resale at a tool vendor.  This might help a few players, but it is likely to hurt more than help.  

    5.  You are all using a computer, with the game in a browser window.  Calculator takes two seconds to open.  Or just type the math problem into your search bar (at least for chrome users).  Don't complain about math while operating a tool that performs math instantly.  Don't do it if you don't want to, but complaining about it is rather sad.  
    Posted 14 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I sell stuff to make some extra currants. I figure when I buy stuff I'm helping someone else keep their currants flowing. What goes around comes around.

    The point about breaking even is a good one to bear in mind. Sometimes I do sell to a vendor when there's a big difference, but i rarely go out of my way to the tool vendor now (although I did when I was at a lower level and every currant counted more).

    Auction is a confusing name - marketplace describes it better.
    The search features have improved over time and I like the way you can find things so easily now. If you are buying, then the cheapest item comes first in the list, and when you are selling its clear what the current lowest selling price is - though I usually flip to the actual 'auction' page to get a better idea of range.

    I guess in theory market forces should help control pricing, but I've never worried about it over much. Like someone else said - its just a game, not homework! Its good not to have to worry about these thing - I'll leave it to others.

    Which makes me think ' doh!' I should thank Abby for 1) working this out - especially since I'd never do it for myself and 2) for sharing it here - at least it gives us all a chance to decide for ourselves whether to take any notice and change our playing style or not.

    Ur is a free world ;)
    Posted 14 months ago by Twoodle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's funny. Because I have a teleport point set up at a tool vendor, it's actually EASIER for me to sell to a vendor than to sell at an auction. So for me, I only feel like selling at auction if I can get a better price than the tool vendor, or I want to feel like I'm helping someone out. (there is a feeling of satisfaction when a stack of 12 awesome stew sells to a hungry Glitchen).

    Auction house improvements
    ---
    In the same way that the game already (a) auto-fills in a starting price for the item, and (b) tells you the cheapest current price for the item, I wish it would do the following:

    1) Give you a warning when you set a price that is cheaper than you would get by selling to a vendor (including commission costs).

    2) Allow purchasers of food to sort auctions of ALL food by currants / energy.

    Last I checked, it was often the case that most food items would just sit there at auction no matter how low you priced them because no one could figure out whether it was worth buying them or not without a calculator.
    Posted 14 months ago by magic panda Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Joojoo:  Nowhere in my comment did I say anything about 'profit.'  My comment stands.  Or, I stand by it.  It's okay to earn currants from our work here, it's even okay to get rich.  But that's an accomplishment of such limited value in the world of Ur.
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Plug: http://zoggish.appspot.com/auctions/

    Doesn't sort by price per value, but does give a nifty color-coded indicator of price per value.
    Posted 14 months ago by Fnibbit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Parrow, you're right, you didn't say "profit", but you used the term "loss" which is the antithesis.

    You said: "The only way to sell things 'at a loss' is if you bought them at the higher price and then resold them.  Anything that you created or harvested, you can sell at a price of a single currant and it is not 'selling at a loss.'  Unless you sell it for less than you paid for ingredients  you used to create it, of course."

    And I am saying that if you sold anything you created or harvested at 1 currant you are selling at a loss (read: not making a profit) because it cost you energy to create or produce that item.  That energy has a value.  You can stand by your comment.  That's certainly your right.  But it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

    Furthermore, the "value" of any accomplishment is up to the individual to determine.  What you consider to be a valueless achievement, may in fact not be so valueless to someone else.  But the fact you keep going back to this term "rich" shows me you don't grasp the difference between wanting to receive fair compensation and wanting to get rich.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've been doing .9 just as eye balled guestimate, so I'm glad that was accurate.

    The other issue is opportunity losses. If it doesn't sell, you aim to lose even more. So be careful with that as well. So even if it's .9, I sometimes, just drop it off at tool vendor for fast cash and no worry about not selling.

    Good post.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mr. Dawgg Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'd just like to say AMEN to the OP. And hear hear. And I raise my glass and all the rest. I won't auction anything if I can't at least get what it's worth (actual currant value; not what I can get at the vendor.). I don't get it when people undersell. That just seems silly.

    If I can't get the price it's worth then I'll just dump it all, uh, I mean, respectfully donate my cultivated goods to the closest, uh, I mean, most respected shrine. No way I'm giving that stuff away for beans at the auction.
    Posted 14 months ago by emdot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Joojoo:

    I know the difference between having fun in a game and preaching to other people that they are not receiving 'fair compensation.'  It's that simple.

    When did this become a game for petty shopkeepers?

    Okay, okay.  It's a game that can include a shopkeeper class.  I referred to it as the Ferengi class in a post a week or so ago.  But the point of this thread seems to be a preachy rant by people who want their 'fair compensation' but are being undersold by other people who could give two hoots about it.

    I give away a LOT more of the stuff I produce to the shrines than I sell.  I have, oh, about 80,000 currants right now and don't see the point in having more.  That's just my way.  Enjoy your way.  And deal with the differences we all have.
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Even though I said it a few posts ago, I would like to say it again, more explicitly.   If you auction for less than 80% of the list price of the item, someone in-game is going to grab that auction within a few minutes and resell it to a tool vendor, pocketing the difference.  Is THAT how you want your hard work to end up? 
    Posted 14 months ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • WalruZ:

    That sounds like a win-win situation.  The original seller gets their selling price, and someone else comes along and benefits as well.  Not everybody is going to say 'the horror!  somebody else benefited from my work!'

    This isn't a debate thread so I am going to step out of it now and not say anymore.  Best of luck to everybody in getting the renumeration they feel they deserve at the auction.
    Posted 14 months ago by Parrow Gnolle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Parrow, you are once again either not understanding the issue being discussed or blatantly choosing to turn a deaf ear to it.  For the upteenth time, NO ONE IS PREACHING HOW TO PLAY THE GAME!  But you sure seem to be.  You demonize anyone that doesn't hand their stuff away for free.  You choose to do that, and that's great.  No one is telling you not to do that.  Keep doing what you're doing if that's how you enjoy your time in Glitch.  But you (and others) come to a thread that discusses an issue you clearly have no interest in just to poke and prod people who actually think their wares have an intrinsic value and say things like, "Hey why are you guys so interested in currants?  Money is meaningless in Glitch man.  I give all my stuff away."  And I again, I say, that's great for you.  Not everyone is like you.  It seems to me that it is you that can't understand others have views too.  And others have ways to play the game too.  If you could accept that, maybe you'd avoid threads in which you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion.
    Posted 14 months ago by Joojoo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Can we discuss in-game economics and markets without attacking one another?  Or being personal?
    Or is the economy (in-game/out-game) just that bad?
    Everyone rub their meditation orb, for Zille's sake.
    ~CTP
    Posted 14 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was enjoying this thread before it got derailed, and I'd like to see more actual discussion...

    I think the main issue is still how the "auction" works... When posting an item, all you see is the lowest price per unit, not the quantity for sale, not the lowest 5-10 so you can see how the "lowest price" compares to the others. Unless the person posting is extremely motivated to click through and check these things first, they'll just post BELOW the lowest price, to make sure the item sells, and quickly.

    It's even worse because of the 24 hour limit. If you know you're going to use your listing fee AND your 24 hours, the motivation is to be sure that it sells quickly, before someone underbids your new listing.

    At one point during the height of the silly tree wars, there were NO spice plant beans listed. I put up three listings at a "reasonable" price, expecting them to be sold within 10 minutes. Instead, when I checked back again, there were a rash of 1-5 bean listings that cumulatively dropped the price by 30% or so, I lost all three listing fees 23 hours and 50 minutes later.

    So... How do we get around the system to make the auctions part of a living economy, not a race to undersell the previous poster?
    Posted 14 months ago by EnnuiStreet Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think it comes down to what is, and what is not "market value."
    So: Tool Vendors pay 80% of "street price."
    But we see here (http://zoggish.appspot.com/auctions/ allows you to look at history graphs of pricing which is kind of glitching amazing) that "street price" fluctuates.
    And that's our demand indicator.
    Price drops when there's a surplus.

    The other interesting thing are what I like to think of as the high-value-added items. Prices for those remain pretty consistent.

    Wood Tree Beans, certain herbs, certain cocktails, and certain high-energy foods seem to command pretty good prices.  Captured pigs, too. 

    What does that tell us? Consistent demand for buffs, for energy, and for hard to find resources. 

    I think the argument around "I put all this energy into making this resource, and now I'm not being adequately compensated" is, for lack of a better word, kind of short-sighted.

    A better path would be to read the auction market using the zoggish tool, and then produce those items that seem to be consistent in their demand.  You know, kind of like the real world? Find a need and fill it?

    Just an idea.

    But I'm also enjoying the conversation.

    ~CTP
    Posted 14 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Parrow Gnolle: "I give away a LOT more of the stuff I produce to the shrines than I sell."

    Well me, too. :) Truthfully, most of my stuff is either eaten by myself (om to the nom) or shared with my neighbors.

    But I still don't see the point of auctioning stuff off below its worth.
    Posted 14 months ago by emdot Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The point is "worth" fluctuates, in this economy, and elsewhere.
    Posted 14 months ago by CrashTestPilot Subscriber! | Permalink
  •  habitually auction things below market price as a service to the buyers.

    i make plenty of money doing it and i don't care if i could be making MORE money.

    what i need is more space in my bags, since i usually have more food than i can eat and i already drop free for people, but i like to sell cheap as well for people who need stuff cheap.

    the bottom fell out of both the meat and the purp markets today; it made me happy. i went ahead and sold my inventory at the drastically reduced prices. somebody got some good bargains and i made a ton of money.

    not as much as i maybe could have made, but plenty enough.
    Posted 14 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Parrow: both in the thread where you reference Ferengis and in this thread you seem to be mistaking concern about the state of the economy and how the interface encourages the economy to be a bit broken with irritation over being under-priced.  Consider, for a moment, that such is not the case; that it is, instead, concern that the game does not make auctions the most desirable way to sell items.  

    Since clearly the developers of the game consider it an MMO and have stated in interviews that they plan to remove the scaffolding from the economy and make it more and more player driven over time, these are concerns that ought to be discussed and addressed.  

    Players like Flask above me, while meaning well, actually make things more difficult for new players.  New players have much more difficulty obtaining currants and many things to spend them on -- selling below market for me means maybe buying one less cubimal.  Selling below market for a newbie means not getting new equipment, perhaps not getting food, perhaps not being able to play very much.  When Flask list things at a reduced rate, anyone who simply just checks the lowest available and not item value or the range of rates available makes his price cut a permanent part of the economy.  

    If I want to play a game where it makes more sense to work completely solo and then turn items into an NPC vendor for a quick reward, I'd play a single player game.  I frequently do.  I won't pay to play a world game that is just a single player with a chat box.  

    There are many people that play massively multiplayer online games that feel this way.  We want our experience to be massive, multiplayer and online -- as it currently stands, my experience of this game would be almost no different if no one else was playing.  

    So yes, even though I sometimes am guilty of lazy pricing myself, I'm not happy that ultimately the most efficient way to play this game right now is to pretend no one else is playing it.  I want the game to create incentives to market to players.   From what I understand, there is some vague plan that prices in regions will fluctuate based on supply and demand, so this 80% barrier to sensible auctions will likely be moot in the future.  But I'm all for anything that forces players to interact with players instead of lines of code.  If a bit of a math lesson helps a few understand, then I'm all for Abby going over some math.  
    Posted 14 months ago by Red Sauce Subscriber! | Permalink
  • i'm not interested in efficiency.

    i'm interested in fun activites. i sell my goods cheaply with no interest whatever in efficiency or economy, but rather in whimsy and surprise.

    i my real life i do actually buy groceries, turn them into food, and give much of it away. in my real life i just came off of six days of hard manual labor for no pay and paying my own expenses.

    in my play cartoon world i like to wander the lansdscape and look at the pretty flowers and play the fun activities and i don't give a wet slap about the economy or your efficiency.

    if i am making it more difficult for new player to play in the min/max style, i say tant mieux and move on. my style does no harm whatsoever to players who have no interest in maximising profits.

    once week, though, i thought cherries were priced unfairly high and so flooded the market with half-price goods and the new price stuck for weeks, to the delight of people using them to play and to the distress of people who need to maximise their profits.

    i wish to foster an atmosphere of easy and whimsical generosity and not one of economics and profit. one of my hobbies is standing at the keyspwan points for those very expensive keys and collecting them. i do not sell them on the market; i give them away. how does that fit in with your profit model, and who does that harm besides the greedy?

    i am happy with the way i play. if you are not happy with the way i play, that's your problem. feell free to take up my free items and sell them to maximise your profits and feel free to snipe my auction prices and resell higher. everybody wins.
    Posted 14 months ago by flask Subscriber! | Permalink
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