Topic

Low level griefing is ruining this game.

People are purposely putting butterflys chickens and pigs in mining areas to purposely make mining difficult for others.

This is a cut and paste from global chat:

"7 more butterflies for Neva Neva. I suggest that Glitches Against Greed (GAG) fill Neva Neva and Ajaya Bliss with as many butterflies as possible!"

what is this game about, making it annoying for everyone else? seriously Devs, you need to do something about these people who are trying to ruin it for other people.

I come here to have fun, not deal with griefers. Devs deal with these jerks if you want people to stay around and play.

Posted 14 months ago by Crispa Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

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  • Crispa, the way to report players is to use the Report Abuse link.  In Global Chat, click their name next to the statement you want the devs to see.  One of your options is to Report Abuse.

    Use that menu item so that devs can investigate specific instances.  There's nothing they can do when you say "deal with these jerks".  You have to report specific accounts.
    Posted 14 months ago by WindBorn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • actually, there are ways to deal with it. You could make a couple changes, hopefully the game was coded simply so that things like menus could be reordered. They could also require animals to need sunlight to live so they'd die if you released them in these areas. There are many ways it could be dealt with. If it's one of those we won't deal with a problem, but we'll deal with people who abuse a problem, they're going to loose a lot of players, it takes days before they get around to looking at reports, and since they won't say if they did anything I must assume they will not do anything. After all, they boot people who give them money, they loose money, since they don't have to report they did something, who will know, right?

    And yes, the people who do things like that are jerks, plain and simple anyone who does something on purpose to annoy or ruin the experience of others are griefers and jerks.

    As for that player, that one was dumb enough to admit he's griefing, most aren't so stupid.
    Posted 14 months ago by Crispa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Both sides just need to take deep breaths and remember "it's just a game". To be fair, it's not "ruining" the game, it's just a minor annoyance. Just milk the hell out of those butterflies so they die. Or deal with the couple extra clicks.

    I'm not saying I condone what they're doing, but it just seems as silly to me as tree wars.

    Edit side note: Though I would love some sort of system where we can give or take away reputation for individual users. More of a self-policed system so the head honchos don't have to deal with the less annoying complaints like, "He stole the key I've been camping on!"
    Posted 14 months ago by Nerdcore Subscriber! | Permalink
  • it's not minor.  It's very very annoying.

    It's past time the devs changed the priority on animals over mining.  The rocks just need to be a higher priority, and the issue with the animals is moot.  That and make it not so easy to feed the animals.  Put the cancel button first, at least, so we don't accidently feed an animal.
    Posted 14 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • so poisoning trees en masse is fine, but releasing animals isn't? lol

    It's an open ended game, if they want to mass release animals in those zones, they aren't breaking any rules, if anything, it gives miners a source of food to use whilst mining
    Posted 14 months ago by Aayla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I was recently thinking as I mined in Callopee that it would be nice if the butterflies and hens were warded off by the pickaxes flying when people are actively mining.  It's not that I mind them there, it's that there is some fairly frantic key mashing happening and if you have already milked the butterfly to completion for the day, you will instead sing to the butterfly, which can be a significant loss of energy, and people have died doing that.  People have died.  :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Scarlett Bearsdale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • LOL Scarlett!
    Posted 14 months ago by Poppy of Detwoit Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The annoyance would be greatly reduced if double-clicking the pick worked properly.  Unfortunately, you sometimes get a "nothing to mine" message when you double-click the pick even though you're standing close enough so that the rock will highlight and Enter will work.  Go figure.  Even so, I find it better to double-click the pick when there are animals around.
    Posted 14 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Protip:  Double Click your pick to mine.  No interaction with animals or other people is necessary.
    Posted 14 months ago by Vicereine Linnæa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I do the double click, but it doesn't always work.  Not sure why.  Probably a flash glitch. heehee

    And I have died singing to  butterflies too.  Very startling.
    Posted 14 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • About a week ago...there was someone in the limenskie mines, who was dropping cups of flour on the spots where you stand, so when you would hit enter, you would waste a turn picking up flour (many hit the return key quickly)....as I made a lap through the mines, I discovered this..as I got to the top I would wind up with more flour...went through again, more flour. The Flour blends in quite well with the floor there, you see.

    Open ended or not, griefing is griefing. Griefing is the systemic behavior which causes frustration for everyone else. It's not "part of the game"...it's being annoying for the sake of it. Poisoning trees is a game mechanic. Introducing tons more stuff to interfere with another game mechanic deliberately strikes me as griefing.

    I would suggest that this is a design flaw: having a "focus" command that would let you set a lock on the item you want to interact with would solve this issue. It would keep people from accidentially:

    Bringing up an IM window in the mines, when you want to initiate mining.
    Selecting "Rename" on batterflies when trying to mine.
    Keep you from inadvertently picking up crap people drop, whether intentional or not. 

    So, say on a rock: clicking it, you could have "Focus on and Mine" .... which means ifyou hit enter, you will stay focused on the rock at all times, until its gone...or you walk away. Moving slightly would dismiss the "target lock" so to speak.

    This would be beneficial for other things too:

    Trees that overlap.
    Dealing with large amounts of animals in flocks,

    Etc etc.

    Just my $0.02
    Posted 14 months ago by Azrael Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Azrael - I agree that it's a design problem.  There are ways to make games challenging that add interest, but this is not one of them.
    Posted 14 months ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really don't see dropping or releasing stuff that has some use as griefing. Griefing would be dropping Cups of Water.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mal'akh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Like Linnaea said, double clicking your pick is the way to go. As long as I can just double click my pick, bring on the animals. More free food and drink to keep my glitch happy and energized while I mine.

    "I do the double click, but it doesn't always work.  Not sure why.  Probably a flash glitch. heehee"

    When this happens, look at the top left of your screen. If a popup tells you that there's nothing to mine when you're next to a rock, the culprit is the low range that the use feature has. I made a thread about it earlier: www.glitch.com/forum/ideas/...

    Hopefully the devs will improve the range on it.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mr. Glenn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So is the problem that somebody is putting chickens in the mine, or that they're putting them in the mine to annoy you? I can think of at least a few other reasons to put chickens in a mine.
    Posted 14 months ago by Pillow Guerrilla Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @pillow guerrilla

    If you read the quote from global chat in the original post, you'll see that the glitch is doing it intentionally to annoy others. And that player has also started a forum post encouraging others to join in with him. 

    If you do something to bother, annoy or hurt others it is griefing. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Crispa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not a miner, so I'm not going to comment on that specifically. I think many of us have had our "happy places" disrupted by griefers, newbies, and various game changes by the devs. I've changed houses about 10 times for various reasons since launch myself, have learned to set more useful teleportation points, and am currently back to my original pleasure, which was exploring - I enjoyed it before there were Completist badges, while getting them, and now I'm rather enjoying wandering the northern areas around where I currently live.

    While I'm peaved too by some of the activities that the devs are allowing by not setting limits on tree types and animals in each street, for now I'm trying to just be patient. We've seen what they can do, but they need a whole lot of time and effort to implement their ideas, and we don't know what all those ideas are... The subscription is for a year - I can't begin to imagine what this game will be like by then, but I'm looking forward to finding out.
    Posted 14 months ago by gimmegames Subscriber! | Permalink
  • You have to remember that the devs are still working very hard, but it's going to take awhile. Instead of getting in huff and making demands why not just try talking to them? The Glitch community is known for it's amicable relations. Sure, you have few jackasses, but the majority of players I've encountered are sweet hearts. Try just saying something in a nice way like, "Hey guys, I know it's just a game, but this is making it really difficult, and it's not at all fun for me. Besides does it not impede your mining as well? Can we just mine in harmony?"

    I know it sounds a little too hippy, but being nice generally gets more results on the internet then just raging.
    Posted 14 months ago by le beebs Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Another reason to thank them for dumping a ton of butterflies in a single areas is that it'll cause people's screens to get flooded by butterfly milking messages. And then they'll be like "Argh, I can't see anything!" Hopefully it'll result in getting more support for this topic: www.glitch.com/forum/ideas/... .
    Posted 14 months ago by Mr. Glenn Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with the folks saying it's a design problem.  Defaults are not sensible, and many of us are mashing "enter" to try to squeeze in another whack at a rapidly disappearing rock.  It's exacerbated by the problems with pick-clicking.  On the bright side, it's handy to have a lot of critters around because I get milk and grain as I mine.

    I'd rather see the UI improved to where it isn't an annoyance to miners than a crackdown on a legal activity in the game (creating animals).
    Posted 14 months ago by Lucille Ball Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One persons's griefing could be another persons harmless mischief. 

     I don't see what the big deal is.  Sure, animals in the mines can be a bother, but there's so many places to mine, its not worth it to me to care.   Now, if someone was splanking you over and over draining energy.. that's another thing.  But, a little mischief never hurt anyone.  And a few extra clicks of a button or going to another street, is really not that big a deal.

    Edit:  And no, I've never put an animal in a mine, flour on the floor (tho that one is funny) etc.
    Posted 14 months ago by Iconoclast Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I stand by my actions. There are 100+ other streets where you can mine and I do not advocate filling them with butterflies. If I have forced a new player to leave Neva Neva or Ajaya Bliss then I am not ruining the experience, I am making it 100x better. People complain that they should be allowed to have fun in their own way. Well, I am having fun in mine. My actions are not griefing and not harmful in any way; they only serve to add character and mystery to the game. Hopefully at the very least, OP, you will friend the other people in this thread that agree with you and help enrich each other's play time in Glitch.
    Posted 14 months ago by Spittle Gauze Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "I stand by my actions. There are 100+ other streets where you can mine and I do not advocate filling them with butterflies. If I have forced a new player to leave Neva Neva or Ajaya Bliss then I am not ruining the experience, I am making it 100x better."

    So you admit you are harassing players into leaving a street with your actions.  Very definition of a griefer.  Better be careful you aren't harassing a dev into leaving Neva Neva.  :>
    Posted 14 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Similar problems occured in Ilmenskie Caverns during beta, which caused the devs to make it impossible for creatures other than batterflies to survive there. This sort of thing will likely only make that happen in the new mining areas as well... Too bad--I rather liked nibbling a few piggies and milking some butterflies in between rock whacks.

    EDIT: by the way, I always thought it was sadistically ridiculous to have "sing" as the default option when selecting butterflies. How life-threateningly dangerous!
    Posted 14 months ago by Shepherdmoon Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Where is the "character and mystery" exactly? The thing that sticks out the most about that whole statement is "If I have forced a new player to leave Neva Neva or Ajaya Bliss then I am not ruining the experience, I am making it 100x better". How? Limiting people's options because they're "ruining the game" by ruining theirs? Yeah, I know, "The Cave", etc. I don't know that being lofty really explains how you're improving anything, however.
    And to be honest, I mostly wonder what is meant by "character and mystery". Those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean. 
    It sounds like your justifications for all that are a bit scattered- either people are ruining the game (per the "GAG" thread), people are destroying the economy (whatever that means, also per the "GAG" thread), you're improving the game by running people out of rooms, or you're bringing the aforementioned character and mystery to the table. In any case, you're all over the map with your explanation, which doesn't exactly give others the warm fuzzies about your motives.
    Posted 14 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 @Spittle Gauze

    This is the stuff that makes this game such a brilliant experiment.  If people want everything to work in simple predictable ways, they can go play a single player game.. What bring so much charm to glitch is the interactions between the players and the ability to alter the environment.  People who fill mining streets with butterflys and kill off the spice trees on East Spice are simply adding entropy to a game that is otherwise 2 dimensional.  The fact that people are getting fired up about things that happen in a free MMO game highlights the fact the game is working.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mister Master Mixer Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mister Master Mixer- How is determining how other people play Spittle Gauze's responsibility? The issue here isn't affecting the world, the issue is making things more difficult for players because they're playing in a way somebody else doesn't like, heaven forbid. It's not as though there's altruism to it, if you've read the other statements that have been made (and that seem to hew a bit closer to the truth, and the title of this thread, than "character and mystery"). 
    Posted 14 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It is really inconvenient for me to click since I play the game on a laptop with only a trackpad, and it is not easy for me to click.  I always prefer the keyboard.  I think they need to make the rocks show up on the list before players and animals, theres no reason why it shouldn't.  

    This type of griefing won't make we stop playing, but it is very annoying.  
    Posted 14 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 for Djabrii
    Posted 14 months ago by Tibbi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's not his responsibility.  How you play is your responsibility. But people who expect everything to work via some formula should spend more time in the real world.  It's the expression of free will by people like spittle gauze that will keep the game interesting.  Yes, everyone add something to the game but it's those willing to upset the status quo that drive the game in interesting directions.
    Posted 14 months ago by Mister Master Mixer Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh and to add: the only reason griefing continues is because people give it power by complaining or letting it affect them.  I have had tree battles and people leaving crap all over my doorstep to try to harrass me but I returned the favor by leaving the harrasser emo bears, kisses, and sweet drinks.  If you don't let it bug you, it will most likely stop.

    It's just like when you have the pathetic bullies who try to pick at anyone who will give them any sort of attention.  If you ignore them, they move on to the next target.
    Posted 14 months ago by Laurali Subscriber! | Permalink
  • >>> It's the expression of free will by people like spittle gauze that will keep the game interesting.  

    Hitting people over the heads with bricks is equally an expression of free will and would in the same vein keep life 'interesting', it is not generally considered a good idea.
    Posted 14 months ago by SacredBob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not a miner anymore, I got bored with the endless grinding (the MMORPG kind of grinding, not the glitch action of grinding...) I went to Neva Neva once and never went to Ajaya Bliss.
    But this thread is cracking me up on so many levels on both sides.
    Yes, the butterfly drops are probably annoying to the miners.  And yes the people dropping them sound pretty annoying themselves. 
    But miners, go back and reread what you posted above.  Many, but not all of the posts just come off as whiny.  

    I tend to agree with Mister Master Mixer... You can either accept the challenge of *playing an open-ended game* that may not go the way you like, or mine somewhere less crowded and annoying for a bit until the GAG people get bored and move on to something else.  It's really not much different than Rev. Lightbringer's Anti-No-No campaign from an in-world concept.  Remember -  Glitchens mine, and milk/massage/sing to butterflies, they don't mash the enter key... that's something that "people" do.  :)

    I also agree with Laurali, if you ignore them, they'll probably go away. :)
    Posted 14 months ago by Kungaloosh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Mister Maser Mixer

    If i wanted the real world, I wouldn't be playing this game to get away from the A-holes that exist in RL and you have to put up with. This game has been for me so far a game that is 99% about being friendly and working together to have fun. Perhaps I'm wrong in what I perceive the game is supposed to be. I play games to relax in an alternate universe away from people like those who do things just to annoy others.
    Posted 14 months ago by Crispa Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @SacredBob- +1

    @Mister Master Mixer - I don't know who's arguing for things to "work via some sort of formula"- people would mostly like to just play as they'd like to without people getting all pretentious and attempting to direct them because they know how you should play, and you're doing it wrong in their eyes. I would imagine your tune would change somewhat if somebody took it upon themselves to mess with your gameplay because they disagreed with what you were doing and decided to "make the game better" for you, your own wishes be damned.

    And you're right- "How you play is your responsibility". So if a person is screwing with people because they feel they have some sort of right to do so, that's on them. And when people see that and think, "Well, I can safely say that that person is clearly no friend of mine, as they've decided to attempt to screw me up based on how they want myself and others to play", the person who gets avoided has nobody to blame but themselves. Trouble is, the next scheme is going to be an even greater imposition to others because the attention is gone and people have had the nerve to go back to happily playing as they like.

    I'm not in favor of anything that gets thrown up in-game by other players to alter people's gameplay because they disagree with other players' methods- if people minded their own business and didn't worry about how others were playing as long as those theoretical other people weren't hindering them from playing or causing them problems of some kind, there would be a lot fewer issues in Glitch. And it's one thing for, say,  the devs to nerf something, and another for a player to decide that it's up to them to bend people to their will and mess with them because those other people aren't playing the way they are and as such are clearly wrong. That's a control issue, not a magical piece of performance-art. Besides, I don't think most people playing this game are here to be part of a "social experiment" as such- they just want to have fun, and having other players attempt to dictate how they're allowed to do that stands in the way of that.
    Posted 14 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Apparently this group of people is doing it with an agenda, but I saw someone releasing tons of chickens in the mines as "food source" and truly believe he was doing a public service. 

    I think the developers should regulate a little bit more what kind of critters and what kind of trees are allowed in each region. I don't think individuals should be blame for a design flaw, because if the games allows you to perform certain actions, to judge if it is right or wrong based on how other feel about it, it's too ambiguous.
    Posted 14 months ago by Natalia Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Natalia - I think the statements that have been made by Spittle Gauze pretty well determine the intent; there doesn't seem to be much ambiguity on the point that the GAG business is intended to hinder others rather than provide a service. Consider this thread- http://www.glitch.com/forum/general/10415/
    Posted 14 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • This is what the Community Guidelines state and if you feel this is griefing then report it and let TS sort it out... during your report I would cut and paste exactly what was being said in global chat as well so it can be fully investigated:

    The Guidelines Act with Respect Towards Others
    • Absolutely no personal attacks or hateful speech directed at others’ gender, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, ethnic background or anything else you should have the good sense not to hate on.
    • Public areas in the game deserve the same sort of decorum, tact and consideration that public areas in your neighborhood do: excessive obscenity, vulgarity, or other kinds of generally offensive behavior are not welcome.
    • No griefing or harassing other players. It’s not fun, or funny. Really. If you are in the game for the purpose of pissing other people off, you can’t play.
    Edit: @ Spittle Gauze. I see this as griefing according to this thread you started. I am not a heavy miner but I do mine enough to make compounds.  I see this as being outright rude and mean. Sad your trying to get others on your bandwagon... very sad.  www.glitch.com/forum/genera...;
    Posted 14 months ago by Casombra Amberrose Subscriber! | Permalink
  • waaaaaa. 
    Posted 14 months ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Nice addition. That's the sort of useful dialog that helps.
    Posted 14 months ago by Djabriil Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Maybe "There is no right way to play"* is not the same as "I have the right to do whatever makes me happy"?

    *Guidelines

    (EDIT: Btw, not speaking specifically to this topic, which I'm relatively dispassionate about as I don't really get either side.  But I do think there's been an increase of "I want, therefore it should be", or other similar expressions of "Glitch = hedonism, gimme my way"  :P.  I don't see THAT sanctioned in the Community Guidelines.)
    Posted 14 months ago by Lara Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've had so many great interactions with people in the game, so I am baffled by the cluelessness of so many posts here. Somebody acts like an asshole, posts a message saying "Ha ha, I'm an asshole and I want to ruin your game and harrass you." Then when people say "He's being an asshole and harrassing us" and post after post faults them for whining?
    Posted 14 months ago by Billy McBinky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I must be missing something because I don't understand the complaint at all. When ever I mine and there is another player there or a pig or what ever, when I hit the enter button a menu comes up asking what I want to interact with. If I'm mining I just select the rock and mine it.
    Posted 14 months ago by Octo Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Octo, you have never been in Ajaya or Neva. If you don't select the rock super quick you are out of luck. Its all about timing in there. 
    Posted 14 months ago by Papa Legba Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Octo: If there are no animals in front of the rock when you mine, then you don't even have to make a selection because the rock will automatically be the first choice. Therefore, you don't have to think about your choice in hitting Enter 3 times in quick succession to get a mining action going.

    Enter (Menu)--> Enter (Rock as highlighted choice)--> Enter (Mine/Help Mine)--> Action in progress without further thought

    It's less time and effort if you're using the keyboard. Though my choice is to use double click the pick to rule out obstacles, but as mentioned, it doesn't always work, even if the rock is highlighted.

    When you're casually mining or just wandering around the areas mining, then it doesn't really matter which way you do it- the extra time doesn't make a difference. But as Lord Graham of Eli mentions, in those two areas, you have to be fast or you miss out completely.
    Posted 14 months ago by Little Miss Giggles Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I've wished that the order would start with whatever you interacted with last.  It'd happen to mess up GAG, but all I care about is improving the user interface.
    Posted 14 months ago by Tingly Claus Subscriber! | Permalink
  • While i do not like all the added animals in the mines (I happen to like mining in the keyed instances i feel their is a fair amount of player interaction and dialog) Having conflict like this is why i am enjoying this game.   I would like to see more ways that we can change the world for the better or worse. The only thing that needs to be included is ways of countering actions , like the poisoning and antidotes for tress the devs just need to add a butterfly net or maybe a portable bug zapper.

    All hail discordia

    Welcome Home
    Rev.
    Posted 14 months ago by Revrent Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Rather than simply fixing the game so that it becomes something where if you don't like it gets changed at the expense of the 'griefers' enjoyment why not add nets so the butterflies can be moved elsewhere. That way both parties can have their way, no one's enjoyment is overly hampered and the game stays more to the nature of what it is supposed to be, a game of imagination.

    Personally I think that the actions express a lot of imagination and creativity on behalf of the griefers but also agree that it does affect other players experiences in the game. I do however believe just yelling at the devs to make them stop it without thinking of other alternatives within the possible mechanics of the game is against the Glitch spirit too.
    Posted 14 months ago by Hobokicker Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Octo: What I was going to say.

    Elitist miners: mining is not as serius business as firefly catching.
    Posted 14 months ago by LųĉĩđεşşΨ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh no, I can't just hit enter over and over without thinking and get tons of sparkly in a busy mining area!  This must be stopped immediately!  It takes me 4 -- FOUR!!! -- button presses to mine if there's a butterfly in the way, and if I press enter too fast without thinking, I might accidentally SING TO A BUTTERFLY AND DIE BECAUSE I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION!

    Devs, I demand you nerf butterflies within 50' of any sparkly nodes.
    Posted 14 months ago by Zimmi Subscriber! | Permalink
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