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### Topic

#### Stop the griefing in the Comunity Herb Gardens

Glitch Change Log
"So migrant gardeners can have time to admire their work, public plots'll be locked to the seed planter for 60 seconds after harvestin time."
13 days ago.
Thanks Tiny Speck, thank you indeed, this thread can now rest in peace.
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TOO LONG, DIDN´T READ: THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ABUSE, NOT PICKED HERBS. There are Glitchens using unfair tactics to grief the users of the Herb Gardens BEYOND the normal "free for everyone", like using gameshow wheels to block your view of your crops and camping with 2 or 3 thieve friends to block your vision or splanking you and then proceeding to group steal your crops. They are actively mugging people in the herb gardens, not just picking stuff for free. This needs to be solved
Regardless of the rules of the gardens, or rules of the game...what we do notice in the end is that the area does promote griefing. People see people planting, and naturally, they know that if they get at the harvest before the other person does, it causes grief. Minor grief, yes, but distress is distress. Sure, no one is entitled to what they plant per se, and anyone can harvest whatever they want, but that does not prevent the core issue, it is causing strife altogether.
So instead of arguing about who is right, whether it be the planters or the griefers, perhaps it would make more sense for a solution that would benefit everyone to come about. I.E., brainstorming. Arguing back and forth is not doing anything for anyone. So let's all try solve the problem, and perhaps TS will listen and implement what we come up with, if it is good enough and lets everyone be happy!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
REST OF THE OPENING POST EDITED: I have decided to remove from the front page my original Opening Post because the actual debate and conversation doesn´t fit anymore into it, and I feel that pressing the issue to move forward is more important than chew on something that isn´t relevant anymore, and is better than opening a new thread.
It was edited not to misguide anyone or trying to hide something, is just a tool to keep the debate at hand on track.
If you are still interested in reading it (is long, boring, filled angst and frustration, and irrelevant to the actual conversation) you can find it here:
docs.google.com/document/d/...

Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink

### Replies

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- Thanks, Saucelah. But fireflies and barnacles are freely available out in the wild, just like trees and piggies, etc., aren't they? They are much, much more available and hence, there is less competition for them.
  Posted 12 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- I have no idea why people are jumping down Mikah's throat! So what she has a big house, I do too. Because of that you have to deal with someone stealing your harvest? That is crazy! Community garden, Not free for all and not abuse! I hope no one that has this" so what" or "get a life" view is even on my friends list cause you obviously support thievery! Grow up!
  Posted 12 months ago by Queen Zipporah | Permalink
- Might I make a suggestion to all you glitches in need of herb plots but don't want to sell your home (I sold mine). Get a friend who has one, swap keys so they have access to your garden plots and trees and you have access to their herb garden plots and be done with community farming. I visited the community gardens and just couldn't bring myself to farming there. It was just too complicated for me. Now, I love my little bog home with fish tank and all!
  I like sharing my garden with one glitch and they share theirs with me.
  Posted 12 months ago by Tawanda | Permalink
- Mikah, i think this really does come down to using the community herb gardens in a way that they were never really designed to be used.
  while i agree that using failures in the UI to circumvent the gameplay of others is "low", planting and waiting to harvest in the public herb gardens is a bad idea to begin with. i don't think there ever was intended "gameplay" in seeing who has the faster reflexes and concentration to pick a herb first, gameshow wheels or no.
  i think the intended "gameplay" is for people to use the herb gardens in a casual fashion, possibly with handfuls of altruistic folks gardening for gardening's sake, planting herbs and crops so that the masses can pick up the odd crop or herb to complete quests.
  the predatory nature of the griefers [and they ARE griefers] and the inherent difficulties in crop growth timing serve to promote house key sharing, which is a nice wholesome social gameplay activity thingy.
  .. mostly the inherent difficulties of growth timing though, what with the longer time scales we have now.
  Posted 12 months ago by striatic | Permalink
- it seems to me this is the intended outcome. whether the objective was to create a sense of stakes in the game, aggression or competition, or just scarcity i'm unsure of but anyone with a grasp of human nature could've predicted this was going to happen.
  since there's no way for us to defend ourselves the only thing you can do is gain access to a private herb garden or fight back using the same dirty tactics. i'm hoping the new housing system alleviates this but who knows TS might believe it's a needed element to their game.
  Posted 12 months ago by Fur | Permalink
- Mikah, if you want to grow herbs you can use my house until Saturday, just don't use all the ice cream in the freezer. I'm sending you a key right now.
  EDIT:
  I planted some seeds to get you started if you're low- feel free to harvest 'em- I have plenty. ;)
  MO' EDIT:
  The house is yours alone- no one else has a key and I won't enter until I revoke the key.
  Posted 12 months ago by Sloppy Ketchup | Permalink
- @WindBorn: thank you also for your response. I am definitely aware of the keys and I do make use of them :D , but I was just wondering in an abstract sort of way why it was set up as such in the first place. It seems likely that community gardens were designed, at least partly, to allow people who had one type of house to have access to plots of the other type. Since there isn't any other instance in the game of something like this (actually, TS seem to be intent on letting players have access to pretty much everything), it just stuck out like a sore thumb for me.
  Posted 12 months ago by Flowerry Pott | Permalink
- @Saucelah: I´m asuming by this statement "And I see your perception of their actions, but I see no proof that it was planned or that they indeed were working together in any way" and this other one" Simply perceiving cooperation does not cooperation make. See?" that you haven´t read my opening post and you are assuming that I´m just complaining because someone took something I planted in the community gardens.
  That is no the case, I was witness today of a selifsh and aggresive act that not only affected me but everyone present in the Comunity Gardens today, performed in group and timed, with ensuing verbal and visual mockery after the act (culprits jumping over the victim and loling).
  Oh, and the argument of "plot ownership" already have been discarded, is not what this thread is about. This is about griefing and aggro behavior using the existing game mechanics to make others suffer and feel bad.
  Today I saw something so hearthbreaking that moved me to open this thread. If you want to believe it didn´t happened then is okay, please don´t add more to this issue and move on. Otherwise you are invited to keep this conversation moving.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- This: http://www.glitch.com/forum/general/14637/#reply-150108
  Best example of what I feel about all this.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Saucelah: Conversely, I don´t think you are a bad person "per se", I´m expecting the Big Update to adress this issue too.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Queen Zipporah: Don´t worry, is a really dodgy issue, is natural for ppl to automatically classify this thread as "another dude bitching about someone stealing his herbs LOL!"
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Maybe more people should buy houses and just rent out the herb gardens. I think they would do a booming business right now.
  Posted 12 months ago by bludwaggie | Permalink
- I don't condone taunting nasty behavior, and in the past have been chastised by goal tending glitchen which didn't make me feel good.
  Wouldn't it be an interesting twist if - in any of the community gardens - the planter could NOT also be the harvester?
  Posted 12 months ago by BlueBetsy | Permalink
- I think we all agree that it is mean for users to exploit game mechanics to prevent users from doing things that they are entitled to. Absolutely.
  This disgreement is predicated on the idea that players are / are not entitled to the harvests from those specific plots, or if they are instead entitled, in a more general way, to harvest as they see fit an replant as they feel moved.
  The signs clearly indicate that the GAME supports the latter.
  It IS unfortunate if users exploit game mechanics at the expense of people who are using herb gardens the other way, but as far as I can tell, it would not work against people using them in the way the signs encourage.
  Posted 12 months ago by Pomegrandy | Permalink
- Hey Tiny Speck...can we Glitchen have herb pots or flower pots? I haven't experienced any of the issues people are talking about here in this forum post, but what I'm hearing doesn't really surprise me. I'd gladly pay currants for some herb pots or flower pots in my backyard.
  Posted 12 months ago by Shadowstrike | Permalink
- @Pomegrandy: I understand your point, but let me tell you that I used to think that way... until I used the comunity Herb Gardens for a week. Now I know.
  1.- The good days are really good: Sharing, caring, helping, playing silly games, giving, all the stuff that makes Glitch the better game of them all. The people playing not only allowed the continued use of the plots but encouraged it, giving space when needed and everyone is happy to drug-like levels. Good times.
  2.- The bad days are really, really, REALLY bad: Enter the griefers and you feel disrupted, no harmony, no sharing, no giving, glitchens yelling at each other, ppl complaining, insults fly right and left, mocking and general bad behaviour is shown at their worst... and then, when all is gone and done you can only mourn with your friends over the massacre and try to move on to make the day better.
  If you ask me, I prefer #1, it feels... dunno, more "Glitchy"
  Don´t you?
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Isn't the issue of griefing (e.g. blocking people's views, verbal taunts, ganging up on people, etc, at least as I understood it) *separate* from the issue of harvesting entitlement / non-entitlement? I thought you couldn't do those types of things no matter what.
  I've never used the community gardens myself so I don't know how it is but if anyone has a problem with specific behavior like in my first sentence they should probably submit an abuse report, and keep submitting reports if there continue to be problems. Problems above and beyond someone harvesting herbs, but specifically taking actions against the tos and/or community guidelines.
  Posted 12 months ago by diaveborn ♥ | Permalink
- @Shadowstrike: I´m one of those who hope that the new Big Update will address this issue, allowing for some home customization that gives you control over what you can harvest inside.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- I prefer #1 myself, Mikah, and I hope the rest of your game experiences go well. Just remember a lot of the people here on the forums tend to be a lot more snarky, and at leas there are those of us who appreciate a good time on Global!
  Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan | Permalink
- @diaveborn: You should do a herb run on the comunity Herb Gardens, just for investigative purposes, you will be surprised on how good are the moments when everybody just comunicate and share everything, and how bad are the moments when griefers enter the game.
  I didn´t understand it until I got there and got beaten down to pulp by guys that wanted to get a couple herbs for free.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Kirnan: word *fistbump*
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- I did read your OP, and I see only evidence that one Glitch addressed you and was rude. And indeed, the way he spoke to you likely violates the community guidelines. As I saw posted in the forums of another game, it is never a good idea to claim that no consequences can possibly happen. In fact, if I were staff on this game, I'd put a ban in place just for that childish comment alone.
  However, no matter how you perceived the others as acting to help the one you called out here, you have presented no proof of that. And I personally can see many alternatives that you cannot, or at least have not shared any evidence that would, prove were not the case either.
  Besides, by using the Community Gardens in a way they are not encouraged to be used, you have created the very niche that these other players are taking advantage of. Stop expecting to own the product of your plots, and these alleged griefers will move on to other things. Stop camping plots, and they will have no camp to camp.
  And as I've said before, if they make some mechanic that temporarily privatizes, or creates the sequential ownership as mentioned above, I will make it my personal mission to attend every community garden and take possession of every plot I can find with yellow crumb without guano, just to have the satisfaction of seeing a new round of threads whining about greedy griefers not leaving any plots open for anyone else.
  I'm self-employed and I work from home. I'm a subscriber, so I have teleport tokens. I could take over every single community garden plot that was open in a matter of minutes, and own them all by the end of the day and not lose them until I go out on the weekend. Yes, I have too much time on my hands. But I would find it immensely entertaining to smack your Group #1 in the face with the obvious downside of their desire to temporarily own a plot.
  You cannot change the behaviors of others. You can only modify your own. I suggest you modify yours to make your time in game more enjoyable.
  And for future reference, telling me to leave a thread is pretty much a guarantee I will not. I'm stubborn, and I enjoy debate.
  Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- As for your thread being about abuse and not the Community Gardens, the forums are not the place for threads about abuse. Talk to staff, leave it up to them. That's the policy built in to the Community Guidelines. You will not know the outcome, but it is none of your business and should only be between that player and Tiny Speck.
  I can assure you that Tiny Speck does give consequences to players that violate the guidelines.
  Posted 12 months ago by Red Sauce | Permalink
- @Saucelah: As long as you understand that we are debating and not fighting over an argument, then is alright.
  Lets do an excercise trying to pry some logic of this dead horse:
  1.- You are asking me to change my behaviour because "You cannot change the behaviors of others"
  2.- BUT the behaviour that prevails in the comunity gardens now is: "I plant MY herbs and THEN I leave some behid when I´m done, and in the meantime I will help you while we are here, take some guano, take some seeds, take some energy... heck! here is a bunch of free herbs already harvested for you pal!" So, the behavior that I like is the one prevailing actually.
  Can´t we use the same argument to the griefers on the game?
  1.- You should change your behaviour because "You cannot change the behaviors of others"
  2.- If you stop pushing and stealing to get a couple free herbs, you could be part of the comunity that actually DOES gives more than the herbs themselves?
  Call me crazy, but I feel that your argument empowers those who act in a bad way, instead of empowering the ones that really makes a good gaming comunity.
  Quick question: Have you ever been in the comunity Herb Gardens? I mean, for real, like a week or so, meet the ppl, plant together, play games, etc...
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- a new round of threads whining about greedy griefers not leaving any plots open for anyone else.
  Like this one?
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- But the griefers are not the ones opening threads in the General Forum asking the devs to do something to make other people change their behavior.
  You are the one asking that behaviors change. Not them. They're perfectly happy if your behavior doesn't change. As long as yours doesn't change, they don't have to change either.
  In fact, they can continue to enjoy their gaming style as long as you play as if the rules were different. They've got you trapped by your own choices. If you make a different choice, they can't play their game any more.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @Saucelah: It has already been reported, of course, this thread was opened out of pure need to vent my heart of the heavy burden that was bestowed over it via the awfull behaviour of some players.
  I´ve found interesting answers and points of view on this thread, so I think this is the right place for it to be.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @WindBorn: That thread you point out is about the personal need of some player to find free spots on the comunity Herb Gardens.
  This thread is about gamers playing aggro on other gamers over the crops harvested, using really nasty tactics and schemes. Something I don´t want to see in this game.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @WindBorn: I can´t even understand what you are saying here: http://www.glitch.com/forum/general/14637/page2/#reply-150216
  It sounds like a "Yo Dawg" meme: "Yo Dawg, I heard you don´t like griefers, so I put a griefer on your garden so you can griefe while you griefe"
  What???
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- If you don't want to keep contributing to that gaming style, use the Community Gardens the way the devs have decided you should use them.
  Don't try to make the Community Gardens into a spot where playing by the rules you want to see in place gives the other players a chance to use their (within the REAL rules) own gaming style on you and get you all bothered.
  If you want control over the harvesting of crops, you'll have to do it in a private garden, not a public one. TS staff have made it very, very clear that public plots are not a place you can expect to harvest what you plant.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @WindBorn: Oh, this again? I have already stated my point of view about this in previous posts answering to Saucelah, you can read it here:
  http://www.glitch.com/forum/general/14637/page2/#reply-150214
  and here
  http://www.glitch.com/forum/general/14637/page2/#reply-150193
  Bottom line: I don´t want to change the game, I want the game to be as wonderfull as it is, filled with ppl with good vibes, sharing and caring, playing and having a blast, being generous, acceptable, altruistic, beneficent, benevolent, big, bounteous, bountiful, charitable, considerate, easy, equitable, excellent, fair, free, good, greathearted, helpful, high-minded, honest, honorable, hospitable, just, kind, kindhearted, kindly, lavish, liberal, lofty, loose, magnanimous, moderate, munificent, noble, open-handed, philanthropic, prodigal, profuse, reasonable, soft-touch, thoughtful, tolerant, ungrudging, unselfish, unsparing, unstinting, willing.
  Quick question: You like your games filled with aggresive people?
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Let's try it in simple sentences then
  The current rules and game mechanics say that all may plant and all may harvest in a community garden plot.
  You are unhappy about another player's playing style.
  The other player is playing by the rules.
  The other player is not unhappy about your playing style.
  You opened a thread in General forum asking that the devs make changes in Glitch that would force the other player to play differently
  The other player did not ask the devs to make any changes.
  If the devs don't make the changes you asked for, you will have to change your playing style.
  If you change your playing style, the other player will no longer be able to play the way they are playing now.
  If you change your playing style, the other player will not be able to make you unhappy.
  If you don't change your playing style, the other player will be able to control your feelings*** and make you unhappy over and over again.
  If you don't change, they don't have to change.
  If you keep expecting the "griefers" to play by your rules, you'll keep getting "griefed".
  If you play by the real rules, they won't be able to grief you.
  ***Yes I know that that's a false statement. But it fits the belief system of the OP, and I'm trying to argue within that belief system.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @Pomegrandy - If people harvest as they wish and plant as they feel moved, I predict this: As such use becomes established, we'll begin to see people camping out or making timed visits to the herb gardens to harvest only. Some of those who plant on a regular basis will notice the same people hanging around and selling herbs or herb products at auction, and those planters may decide as a consequence that there are more effective forms of altruism. Some who harvest what they did not plant will call attention to themselves by asking for additional handouts or making comments about the profits they will gain from harvesting what they did not plant. This will further reduce the numbers of those who feel moved to plant for others.
  I don't enjoy making this prediction, but as I've said before, given a sufficiently large group of people, situations can be designed in which certain outcomes are fairly predictable. I've also said that "fairly predictable" does not imply the same level of predictability as F = ma. So I conclude that either TS is not very familiar with research on cooperation and interdependent decision making, or TS is hoping to create an outlier case, or TS plans to change the game in ways they expect will make all this moot.
  Posted 12 months ago by Splendora | Permalink
- @WindBorn: Yes dude, I know your argument, its okay, I understand it, I comprehend it, I grok it (google it).
  What I´m doing is trying to push an argument that (as far as I searched) have never been treated in the forums before. This game is one of the weirdest experiments I have ever had the chance to play and I´m having a blast doing so, and being a game still in development it could be open to improvement and positive input.
  I´m pushing some positive input based on a bad experience I encountered ingame, and I sincerely want other players not to be in the chance of suffer it. Is there, it will happen. Again. And Again. And again.
  Have you sincerely read the couple links I gave you in my last reply to you? Are you even trying to understand my point of view? I hope you do, because what happened to me today is something I don´t want to happen to you.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- If you don't want to change the game, why are you posting a request in the forums asking the devs to change the game?
  If the game is just fine the way it is, and needs no changes, then you should be satisfied with the rules and game mechanics.
  As it is, you've asked for the following changes so that you can play the way you want, and stop those other players from playing by the rules as they are currently written.
  - A cooldown timer in wich the herb or crop can only be picked by the one who plant it, maybe 15 - 30 seconds of cooldown, and after that is up for grabs.- Big objects that can block view like the gameshow Wheel is innactive inside the gardens. Or make them transparent.- Glitchens should be transparent while standing in front of a comunity garden plot, making easy to see what´s behind them.
  In case you don't remember: we had threads like this in alpha. There have always been players who didn't play nice. If you want to avoid them, use the tools that TS has already given you.
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- @Splendora: You sound exactly like Hari Seldon from Isaac Asimov´s Foundation Trilogy.
  That´s a compliment in case you don´t get the reference, and a damn good one ;)
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @WindBorn: I´m diagnosing you have a severe case of "not-reading-esia". Is really hard talking to you if you continue to infuse bias and do a selective quote of my words, I don´t like to discuss about what I already have stated clearly.
  I´m not blaming you, this is a very long and active thread and one can loose the track of the arguments. Maybe tomorrow we can continue this exchange in a more civil maner.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Splendora I love you <3
  That's the best summation of the situation I've heard so far.
  I do think that the behavior described should qualify as griefing, and I hope that there are some consequences for people deliberately trying to destroy other people's game experience. It's sad that people have spent so much time trying to figure out ways to steal from others :/
  (Yes, I understand the "community property" issue, and I'm not saying that people who camp herb plots should be able to harvest every single herb -- but I also think that most of us are rational, compassionate adults with a certain amount of common sense, and the griefing behavior described is NOT just an "alternate form of gameplay," it's intended to cause distress.)
  Here's hoping that the housing updates alleviate some of the stress on the Community Herb Gardens, so they can go back to being laid-back areas similar to the community produce gardens.
  I do think that Herbalism 3 will help take some of the pressure off -- the fact that herbs are so low-yield with Herbalism 1 and 2 is part of why there has been so much distress when one of your precious and hard-to-obtain herb seeds is wasted. When herbs have a higher yield and shucking doesn't run the risk of destroying the herb, it's a lot easier to relax and get back into the generous spirit of Glitch. I appreciate that the devs took this step (rather than a direct intervention in the gardens) to make gameplay more enjoyable for people who want to grow herbs, either in their own homes or in the gardens.
  Posted 12 months ago by Ashbet | Permalink
- Windborn, I know you mean well but really I am getting sick of you being a goody two shoes and constantly telling others the "community guidelines" and crawling up the game designers behinds. Quit kissing butt ok? If you cannot understand that players ARE being griefed, harassed, stolen from then just stay out of the conversations please.
  Oh and quit over and over and over telling people to get a bog home when maybe we DON'T want a bog home and quit the crap of "making friends" with people you have no clue about so you can share homes and they can not only use the gardens but rip you off. No thanks.
  Until you have experienced some of the sad sad garbage from those that like to thieve everything that is not nailed down and then they taunt you and say "nanny nanny boo boo I can take it cause the signs say I can and you can't stop me" using tactics that are just down right dirty you will never have a clue. So keep your rhetoric to yourself.
  /rant off
  Posted 12 months ago by Casombra Amberrose | Permalink
- That's true, Splendora, but what I envision is more a "sea of purple" scenario where the steady number of people working on quests, 5k badges etc keep the gardens stocked with a steady flow of fast, and therefore often harvested, and therefore cheap on auctions herbs, limiting the profit to be gathered that way. Planting fancy herbs there would be more/less the same as accidentally feeding your allspice to piggies, an annoying thing that happens.
  Actually it's possible that planting "fancy" herbs would be seen as annoying because it holds up the plot for longer. People might do that to "punish" campers, who would be seen in the same light as key campers for the most part. The cost for most herbs (certainly rubeweed) would be high-ish, forever, they'd stay a luxury item; people would buy or share bog houses if they rely on a steady supply of herbs.
  People might say, "That sounds terrible! Why can't we just all agree to play my way, the decent way?"
  Because that way isn't what the game supports, and is too far from natural game mechanics to be the ONLY supported ("decent") model.
  Posted 12 months ago by Pomegrandy | Permalink
- @Ashbet: Another Splendora fan? we should make a fan club :)
  This is the part of your post that makes thing really clear about this issue: "I also think that most of us are rational, compassionate adults with a certain amount of common sense, and the griefing behavior described is NOT just an "alternate form of gameplay," it's intended to cause distress."
  You got my point, thank you.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- @Casombra Amberrose: You actually made me LOL, my wife just turned her head to me with a puzzled look and I had to reply: "nothing, something funny".
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- Thank you Casombra, I get the feeling Windborn and some of his other friends on here don't care about the distress of others. Furthermore, they have all stated that those who have been griefed deserve it by ever planting in a community garden. They want conformity to the game rules only, and anyone against that is clearly an enemy.
  It rather saddens me, but at least there are many of us out there that are far more caring and willing to go out on a limb. Personally, I am thinking of donating herbs to people that really need them, as I have access to a friend's private garden.
  Posted 12 months ago by Kirnan | Permalink
- I hung out a bit in a community herb garden today. They are definitely the least friendly places I've seen in glitch. Its not just the so called 'thieves' that are creating the bad atmosphere.
  Despite the big signs saying the herb gardens are for all, people had put little notes down on the ground claiming that a patch is 'theirs' and that other people are not allowed to use them without asking their permission. When I picked up one of these notes that was just lying on the ground someone came up to me and swore at me.
  Another person was repeatedly spamming the chat with the names of 'thieves' in an attempt at 'name and shame' (much like this post), others were swearing at them.
  I saw a person start swearing at another for picking up some grain accusing them of 'stealing' because they felt the grain should be left for the pigs (the person in question was picking up the grain and feeding it to the pigs).
  The sort of friendly glitch-y atmosphere of politeness and helping each other that I've seen most other places was pretty much absent, mostly due to a few people (on both sides) who think a community resource belongs to them. Sad.
  Posted 12 months ago by Lukie | Permalink
- We all care about other people's feelings. This post extends PAST caring about feelings to actually suggesting the game be changed. Opinions on that vary but by and large I think everyone is capable of human empathy etc,
  Tl;dr;: I do think that behavior is griefing, because they were verbally saying mean things to you on a player to player level. But for me, that verbal player to player abuse is very specifically where the threshold exists, and it is commonly drawn WAY too close to "interacting with herb patches in a way I don't like" for comfort.
  (Also sorry for multiple edits, I am writing this in a weird location.)
  Posted 12 months ago by Pomegrandy | Permalink
- @Pomegrandy: I understand your argument, but clearly you are assuming some kind of rational behavior from the dudes and duddettes that use the Gardens just to grief other players protected by the "game rules" (sigh!).
  They are not rational, the actual mechanics of the gameplay allows them to act like, and excuse my french, a bunch of dicks, bullying their way up and down the gardens and taking EVERYTHING that they can.
  You know where you find those glitchens a little later? Check the Auction house and you will see some familiar names selling those herbs. They are in the gardens to make profit from the hard work and kindness of others. That´s it.
  Posted 12 months ago by Mikah | Permalink
- I try to live by the "Golden Rule" of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". But not everyone feels the same way.
  I think it is a shame that this is happening in the gardens and really sympathize with you Mikah. I really wish TS would implement a solution to this problem.
  Posted 12 months ago by Addie Sparkhall | Permalink
- If players feel harassed and griefed, then report the harassment and griefing. Those are clearly against the rules, and I've seen TS act promptly to those reports.
  There's no reason to put up with harassment. Report it, and let the staff deal with it.
  However, much of what is being described here is not harassment. For that, you need to use the other tools that TS has given us, and find alternatives to staking a private claim to a public resource.
  There's no requirement that you give a key to your own house to anyone. Just that you accept a key from someone who is willing to share their herb plots. And only for the amount of time it takes you to complete your tasks.
  If playing a solo game is more important than using someone else's plots, then you've got your priorities straight, but it's costing you. If having a large house is more important than having herb plots, then you've got your priorities straight, but it's costing you. If all your choices are more important than obtaining a private bog house, then you're going to be uncomfortable sharing public gardens with people who are playing by the rules.
  No one is required to plant in the community gardens. There are other choices. If planting in the community gardens is the choice you make, then you can do your part to rid the game of griefers by reporting each and every incident. But starting threads in the General forum isn't going to make any difference to those people. Nor is insisting that everyone who uses the gardens needs to use them the way you have decided is "kind" or "nice" or "right"
  Posted 12 months ago by WindBorn | Permalink
- I have a house with a bunch of herb plots.
  Well, actually, six. But it was a 5k house. And I must've sold thousands of currants in herbs so far. Mostly gandlevery.
  I don't use the herb gardens for this reason (I got the house before potionmaking came out). But I think the herb gardens were supposed to be a community thing, like in Ajaya/Neva Neva, how people work together to mine sparklies and stuff, even though it doesn't work out that way.
  The main difference between the sparklies and the herbs is that mining sparklies together helps you get more sparklies, while there is no reward for collaboration--or even a method of collaboration--in the herb gardens. It's a Glitch-eat-Glitch wor--no, forget that. TS should probably improve on that.
  And while I get that you're annoyed at the thieves, Mikah, there also aren't that many herb plots, and 'booking' twelve at a time for your use is, well, yeah. And when all those herbs spring up (and you know the price of herbs these days), who can't be tempted to take some? Most Glitches don't, 'cause of morals and stuff like that, but some people, like the people who take all the food at the parties and leave nothing, do.
  If you find a diamond on the ground, would you pick it up? Yeah, probably. If you see a herb that nobody has picked yet, would you pick it? Most wouldn't, as it's somebody else's work. But some people really don't care about the person behind the diamond or the yellow crumb. All they want is the item. So they take it.
  Posted 12 months ago by Sororia Rose | Permalink
- I have a house with a bunch of herb plots.
  Well, actually, six. But it was a 5k house. And I must've sold thousands of currants in herbs so far. Mostly gandlevery.
  I don't use the herb gardens for this reason (I got the house before potionmaking came out). But I think the herb gardens were supposed to be a community thing, like in Ajaya/Neva Neva, how people work together to mine sparklies and stuff, even though it doesn't work out that way.
  The main difference between the sparklies and the herbs is that mining sparklies together helps you get more sparklies, while there is no reward for collaboration--or even a method of collaboration--in the herb gardens. It's a Glitch-eat-Glitch wor--no, forget that. TS should probably improve on that.
  And while I get that you're annoyed at the thieves, Mikah, there also aren't that many herb plots, and 'booking' twelve at a time for your use is, well, yeah. And when all those herbs spring up (and you know the price of herbs these days), who can't be tempted to take some? Most Glitches don't, 'cause of morals and stuff like that, but some people, like the people who take all the food at the parties and leave nothing, do.
  If you find a diamond on the ground, would you pick it up? Yeah, probably. If you see a herb that nobody has picked yet, would you pick it? Most wouldn't, as it's somebody else's work. But some people really don't care about the person behind the diamond or the yellow crumb. All they want is the item. So they take it.
  Posted 12 months ago by Sororia Rose | Permalink

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